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#openttd IRC Logs for 2013-06-01

---Logopened Sat Jun 01 00:00:28 2013
---Daychanged Sat Jun 01 2013
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02:41<@Alberth>moin
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03:44<@DorpsGek>Commit by rubidium :: r25312 /trunk/src (5 files in 3 dirs) (2013-06-01 07:44:53 UTC)
03:45<@DorpsGek>-Fix-ish: missing spaces after comma + realignment of tables; quite boring with -x -w
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04:07<@Alberth>:)
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05:41<@Alberth>stable connection seems quite hard to get :)
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09:39<frosch123>"Hello My Name Is Filip, Me And My Friend Were Both 13 years old and would like to lern a little bit about coding, if your intrested in tetching us please send back a mail." <- should openttd open a teaching division?
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09:41<fonsinchen>I'm back
09:43<V453000>just send them an easy quest what to code frosch123 :) without high expectations
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09:44<frosch123>V453000: any suggestion? :)
09:44<frosch123>maybe i should just link them to the compile yourself guide
09:44<V453000>you are asking me about coding
09:45<V453000>not the best idea :P
09:45<V453000>all I know is that it runs on rainbow
09:45<perk11>frosch123: ask them to add threads to openttd
09:45<V453000>compiler is something like a unicorn-powered wheel which outputs fun stuff out of wtf letters, numbers and other characters
09:46<frosch123>which letter is the most wtf? "^"?
09:47<@Alberth>2?
09:48<@Alberth>frosch123: suggest to learn Python first
09:49<perk11>yeah like this http://www.learnpython.org
09:50<@Alberth>oh, I've always wanted to learn C :)
09:51<frosch123>which one? k&r?
09:53<@Alberth>int foo(int bar) { <-- apparently not
09:54<frosch123>haha, i would be surprised if a tutorial would cover k&r :p
09:54<@Alberth>:)
09:56<@Alberth>perk11: XML parsing is missing :(
09:56<perk11>well I guess because it's not a basic feature
09:58<@Alberth>list comprehension is also not so comprehensive if you don't know it already :p
10:00<perk11>well I don't actually write a lot in python but in my experience lists are used there very often :)
10:01<perk11>oh there's an emty page for XML tutorial
10:01<perk11>didn't notice :)
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10:02<frosch123>hmm, i remember some python bootcamp site...
10:03<frosch123>Alberth: weren't you involved into something like that?
10:03<LadyHawk>hi all
10:03<frosch123>it also covered shell and regex and such
10:03<LadyHawk>i'm playing ottd again for a bit and cannot remember how to alter the lookahead setting in the console for the train pathfinding.. can someone remind me please?
10:03<@Alberth>not that I am aware
10:04<Mazur>I'm sure I can drag up a K&R tutorial, think I have one in my bookcase.
10:04<LadyHawk>i found some settings in the wiki but the console just tells me ERROR: command not found
10:04<Mazur>Check your spelling yet?
10:04<@Rubidium>welcome back fonsinchen
10:05<perk11>it's setting setting_name
10:05<perk11>not just setting_name
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10:06<fonsinchen>I've just pushed a fix for the desync in cargodist.
10:06<LadyHawk>? so with the YAPF routing.. and the setting 'rail_look_ahead_max_signals' i want to change to 6
10:06<perk11>is it totally fixed?
10:07<LadyHawk>what is the command format of that?
10:07<fonsinchen>I haven't figured out the 140 misrouted crates in your savegame. I will add some asserts to catch those things next time, though.
10:07<fonsinchen>The git branch looks a bit messy atm. I will clean it up soon.
10:08<LadyHawk>or rather, change it to 2
10:09<perk11>LadyHawk: it says it's an unknown setting
10:09<LadyHawk>http://wiki.openttd.org/Yet_Another_Pathfinder
10:09<LadyHawk>so what is the *actual* setting then?
10:09<@Rubidium>fonsinchen: yeah, I broke it in a few places, didn't I ;)
10:10<perk11>LadyHawk: setting yapf.rail_look_ahead_max_signals 2
10:11<@Alberth>'listsettings' suggests a "pf." prefix before "yapf"
10:11<perk11>worked without pf for me
10:11<@Alberth>maybe it's smart :)
10:11<LadyHawk>thanks a ton
10:11<perk11>but it's for the current game only
10:11<perk11>if you want it for newgame change openttd.cfg
10:12<LadyHawk>maybe this command line should be in the wiki
10:12<LadyHawk>i didn't know what was missing from it :)
10:12<fonsinchen>That wasn't much of a problem. I'm happy you merged some code into trunk. My bug fixes floating on top of the cd branch are somewhat ugly, though.
10:12<@Alberth>LadyHawk: feel free to add it
10:13<LadyHawk>current game only is what i was looking for.. some games i make to deliberately cram as much traffic onto a bit of track as possible with the fastest flow through possible
10:13<perk11>http://wiki.openttd.org/Console
10:13<@Alberth>it may save you from searching it again later :)
10:13<perk11>I belive set is an alias for setting
10:13<LadyHawk>and with the signals looking ahead so high, trains keep blocking off rail mergers while they shouldnt because they see traffic way too far in front of them
10:14<@Alberth>perk11: looks that way indeed
10:14<perk11>LadyHawk: not sure what are you talking about, but there should be another solution
10:15<LadyHawk>i'm all ears?
10:16<perk11>could you provide a save?
10:16<LadyHawk>i have nowhere to upload it but i have a save i can give you yes
10:17<@Alberth>http://filebin.ca/ ?
10:18<frosch123>http://www.software-carpentry.org/ <- ah, found the site i remembered alberth linked to me (indirectly) :p
10:19<@Alberth>oh that one :) that's for real scientists only :D
10:19<perk11>:D
10:20<heffer_>on fedora 19+ i managed to build the RC1 of 1.3.1 but not 1.3.1 due to https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=962047
10:20<heffer_>therefor we'll probably have to wait for that to be fixed before seeing 1.3.1 on Fedora 19+
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10:21<frosch123>yeah, intenal compile failures are quite random :)
10:21<@Rubidium>heffer: yay ;)
10:21<LadyHawk>hm
10:21<frosch123>touch some random chars and ti works again
10:21<perk11>heffer_: you can use alternate gcc version?
10:21<@Rubidium>and clang isn't useful either: http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=709212
10:21<LadyHawk>Your file is now available a few different ways:
10:21<LadyHawk> With a filename: http://filebin.ca/j7Kllaf8QFE/merger.sav
10:21<LadyHawk> Without a filename (default used): http://filebin.ca/j7Kllaf8QFE
10:22<heffer>perk11: well, not when building for the official fedora repos
10:22<perk11>oh
10:22<LadyHawk>that's with lookahead on 4.. if you set the lookahead in that save to about 7 or so, or whatever the default is, that merger block on the screen will blockup fast
10:23<heffer>i have to use whatever the build systems use
10:23<perk11>LadyHawk: wow that looks mad
10:23<heffer>on F19+ this is gcc-4.8.0-8.fc19.x86_64
10:23<LadyHawk>yeah
10:23<LadyHawk>long trains would be an easy solution but that specific game isn't about that
10:23<LadyHawk>it's about the amount of traffic.. the more, the better
10:24<LadyHawk>to try to get it to flow right
10:24<LadyHawk>it's a challenge
10:24<LadyHawk>the trains still don't behave right but the lower the lookahead, the better they behave
10:25<LadyHawk>i just cant reduce it any further because it'll break the depot blocks
10:25<perk11>I set it to 7 and don't see where a problem is
10:26<LadyHawk>preferrably if there's a setting so you can set trains to ignore anything after the 1st signal they come across, that would fix the issue completely
10:26<perk11>why you use PBS that could be passed through in reverse direction?
10:27<perk11>use one-way
10:27<LadyHawk>?
10:28<LadyHawk>it's an old save but all pbs signals i can see are one way
10:28<LadyHawk>and the whole thing is already blocked up for me, all the trains queued up.. that's bad
10:28<LadyHawk>on lookahead 8
10:29<LadyHawk>trains stop and wait because they see 'no clear path' they look ahead too far
10:29<LadyHawk>while the signal in front of their faces is green
10:29<LadyHawk>and they should keep going
10:29<LadyHawk>rather than stop and block everything off
10:29<perk11>LadyHawk: http://home.perk11.info/tmp/this.jpg
10:29<LadyHawk>they are one way?
10:29<perk11>no they are not
10:29<perk11>but where exactly do they stop?
10:30<LadyHawk>those ones can be fed with a normal one way signal
10:30<LadyHawk>said the description on them
10:31<perk11>those are just like one way PBS
10:31<perk11>except they can be passed through in other direction
10:31<perk11>as there were no signal
10:31<LadyHawk>so looking at that block.. what signals should i be using?
10:32<perk11>one-way PBS
10:32<perk11>the last one in the signal selection menu
10:33<@DorpsGek>Commit by frosch :: r25313 /trunk/src (9 files) (2013-06-01 14:33:48 UTC)
10:33<@DorpsGek>-Fix: Do not assume '8' to be the broadest digit, but test all of them.
10:34<LadyHawk>done
10:34<LadyHawk>but that still doesn't fix my lookahead issue
10:34<perk11>I still don't get it
10:35<LadyHawk>1 train will happily block off 2 out of the 3 flow through paths, if it sees a train 5 green signals ahead of its go-straight-over path
10:35<LadyHawk>by switching to a different path
10:35<LadyHawk>because it 'sees' this train and applies an extra penalty that tells it to switch
10:35<perk11>ah you meant that
10:35<LadyHawk>it sees too far ahead
10:36<perk11>well it doesn't know it blocks other trains
10:36<LadyHawk>true, but i dont wait it to see anything other than the first green signal in front of its face :)
10:36<perk11>maybe priority will help you
10:36<LadyHawk>that would solve the issue 100%
10:37<perk11>http://wiki.openttdcoop.org/Priority
10:37*LadyHawk investigates
10:38<fonsinchen>http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=33&t=63796&p=1079861#p1079861
10:38<perk11>but presignals don't work well with crosses like that
10:38<fonsinchen>Maybe someone wants to comment that ...
10:40<perk11>so this article actually desribes how to make an efficient merger http://wiki.openttdcoop.org/Merging_Tracks
10:41<LadyHawk>i'm not sure this priority thing is something i can use.. because it just adds extra waiting time that does the opposite of what i try to do
10:42<LadyHawk>the mergers i've been all over.. the one there is more efficient with stupidly large amounts of traffic
10:42<LadyHawk>the one i use i mean
10:43<perk11>you know there's such traffic in openttdcoop games
10:43<perk11>or even more
10:43<perk11>and it's solve with mergers described on a link above
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10:47<LadyHawk>i've changed the one way signals after the pbs block into 2 way so trains pick 'any' rather than 'track they think they need' and no change in behaviour
10:48<LadyHawk>trains still refuse to pick the green signal in front of their face if there's a train somehwere on the track in range of their 'lookahead' setting
10:48<perk11>that's a downside of PBS, yes
10:49<perk11>you either accept it or build a complex merger using priorities and presignals
10:49<perk11>or change pathfinder setting as it turns out :)
10:49<perk11>but it might lead to blocks if the traffic stops somewhere ahead I guess
10:52<LadyHawk>i'm trying to wrap my head around the other yapf settings atm
10:52<LadyHawk>setting different penalty values
10:52<LadyHawk>whether that's something i can use
10:54<LadyHawk>despite the 'oi leave me alone' warning slapped on it
10:54<LadyHawk>sounds fun XD
10:58<perk11>you need something like this http://wiki.openttdcoop.org/File:Mergers_43InnerOuterExtra.png but 7->3 instead of 4->3
11:00<LadyHawk>i'd have to rebuild that to see how trains behave on it to be honest
11:01<LadyHawk>i've found if you go straight from 7-3 it blocks up.. too much merging with trains having no options to move
11:01<LadyHawk>that's why i went 7-5-3
11:02<LadyHawk>i'll see if i can go 7-4 rebuild that link-3
11:02<LadyHawk>or something
11:02<LadyHawk>see if it can even deal with 207 trains
11:04<LadyHawk>first thing i'm going to do is see which lines connect to which lines what signals it's using because that looks interesting with entrance/exits
11:05<perk11>LadyHawk: this is what we had to build for 10->5 in the last game http://home.perk11.info/tmp/PSG259%20Transport%2c%202518-12-08.png
11:06<LadyHawk>howmany trains were running over that block?
11:06<perk11>627
11:08<LadyHawk>hmm
11:09<LadyHawk>on that link you gave me..
11:09<perk11>yes?
11:09<LadyHawk>the 2 lines on the outsides have the option to go to 2 of the 3 lines... and the inner 2 lines have the option of going wherever they feel like
11:10<LadyHawk>but none cross their own paths
11:10<LadyHawk>in the process
11:10<LadyHawk>hence entrance/exits rather than pbs
11:10<@DorpsGek>Commit by frosch :: r25314 /trunk/src (3 files) (2013-06-01 15:10:32 UTC)
11:10<@DorpsGek>-Fix (r25313): If '0' is the broadest digit, 0 * sum(10^i, i=0..(n-1)) is not the broadest n-digit number.
11:10<@DorpsGek>-Fix [FS#5562]: Proper size-estimation for numbers with n digits.
11:10<perk11>yes as I said you'll have to rebuild it, not just change signals
11:11<LadyHawk>yeah
11:11<LadyHawk>it's kinda complicated which is adding to the challenge,.. it's good lol
11:11<LadyHawk>but i must say i hate the look of it so i want to move the lines over a bit as well XD
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11:22<LadyHawk>i'm not sure about this setup
11:24<SineTheCreator>i shouldn't have built airports. god they're overpowered :/
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11:25<@planetmaker>good evening
11:25<SineTheCreator>hey planetmaker
11:26<SineTheCreator>btw, while i'm here - i'm using the trains in the north american renewal set and while realistic they are incredibly expensive. is there a way to lower the costs a little?
11:26<LadyHawk>i really am not sure about this setup as i'm recreating it... because.. they choose a path based on current availability.. but by the time they actually hit the merger, it may well be blocked.. too much space in between
11:26<SineTheCreator>also, is there a newgrf that does a similar thing for planes?
11:27<Pinkbeast>AV8
11:27<frosch123>planetmaker: hi, did you swim home? :)
11:28<@planetmaker>actually no. It was a day without much rain
11:28<@planetmaker>but overcast at ~15°C and strong winds
11:30<SineTheCreator>Pinkbeast: av8'rs aircraft, i remember that now. thanks :D
11:33<perk11>LadyHawk: that's intentional. In 4->3 some trains WILL have to wait
11:34<perk11>just because it's less paths available
11:34<LadyHawk>lol
11:34<LadyHawk>just noticed i broke my game by setting lookahead to 1 signal
11:34<LadyHawk>i think it's more like 1 tile rather than 1 signal
11:35<LadyHawk>bf coming to get me, i'll battle on another day =)
11:35<LadyHawk>ty for the thelp perk11
11:35<LadyHawk>it's appriciated =)
11:36<perk11>LadyHawk: I think you'd like building in openttdcoop style :) Check their wiki when you have time
11:36<LadyHawk>will do
11:36<LadyHawk>quitting now to avoid my laptop join/quit spamming
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11:47<apiecux>there is a city (a megalopolis) which is not big (on ground), but the population doesn't grow up event when I buy new buildings.. what can be the reason?
11:48<@planetmaker>replacing existing buildings
11:48<apiecux>it is not big, but there is enough space to create new buildings
11:49<apiecux>(it is between other cities, I have looked what tiles are owned by this one)
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12:34<Ristovski>planetmaker: can't ottd use vector graphics?
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12:40<@Rubidium>Ristovski: no
12:41<@Rubidium>apiecux: you might have overbuilt the "spawn" tile of the town (right below the town name)
12:41<Ristovski>Rubidium: How so?
12:41<@Rubidium>Ristovski: because nobody implemented it
12:41<Ristovski>Rubidium: I mean, if it could be implemented :D
12:42<Ristovski>I mean, I wanted to ask if it would even work
12:42<@Rubidium>I see no reason why it would
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12:42<@Rubidium>not work
12:42<@Rubidium>except that is might be very slow
12:43<Ristovski>yeah, I guess it would be
12:43<Ristovski>Rubidium: would allow infinite zoom levels tho
12:43<Ristovski>without loosing quality
12:44<@Rubidium>infinite zoom in looks the same in both
12:44<Ristovski>hmm
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13:08<apiecux>Rubidium: what do you mean by "overbuilt"?
13:09<@Rubidium>replaced by a station, industry or something like that
13:10<apiecux>ah ok
13:10<apiecux>that's probably the reason
13:39-!-LordAro [~LordAro@host217-43-26-155.range217-43.btcentralplus.com] has joined #openttd
13:39*LordAro waves
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13:44<LordAro>that's better
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13:45<@DorpsGek>Commit by translators :: r25315 /trunk/src/lang (5 files) (2013-06-01 17:45:29 UTC)
13:45<@DorpsGek>-Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
13:45<@DorpsGek>catalan - 33 changes by arnau
13:45<@DorpsGek>croatian - 4 changes by VoyagerOne
13:45<@DorpsGek>indonesian - 8 changes by Yoursnotmine
13:45<@DorpsGek>vietnamese - 19 changes by myquartz, nglekhoi
13:45<@DorpsGek>welsh - 5 changes by kazzie
13:46*Alberth waves
13:47<LordAro>hai Alberth
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14:46<TheDude>hello there
14:47<TheDude>could you give me a hint please?
14:47<TheDude>I am trying to generate template for GS library for some function I added with squirrel_export.sh
14:48<TheDude>but it is not added in generated template and also removed from game_instance.cpp
14:48<TheDude>now I remember there was some guide for this, but I was unable to find it again :-(
14:53<@Alberth>is there?
14:53<@Alberth>I only know there is a src/script/api/squirrel_export.sh shell script
14:54<LordAro>there is: http://wiki.openttd.org/OpenTTDDevBlackBook/NoAI/Adding_a_squirrel_function
14:55<LordAro>some of the filepaths might be outdated, but it's mostly all there
14:55<LordAro>..i think :L
14:56<@Alberth>useful, thanks
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15:02<V453000>Message: Assertion failed at line 153 of /home/openttd/svn-publicserver/src/cargoaction.cpp: cp_new->Count() <= this->destination->reserved_count
15:02<V453000>:<
15:03<TheDude>thanks LordAro
15:06<TheDude>but seems it is outdated
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15:34<TheDude>also what I want to add to squirrel scripts is new class and not a function
15:34<TheDude>and launching squirrel_export.sh in api folder does not generate new templates for it
15:38<LordAro>you might have to add it to squirrel_export.sh, or something
15:43-!-samu [~oftc-webi@240.57.37.188.rev.vodafone.pt] has joined #openttd
15:43<samu>sup
15:44<LordAro>TheDude: it seems your file should be included automagically: "
15:44<TheDude>hm, there is no lines for it
15:44<LordAro>"for f in `ls ../*.hpp`; do"
15:44<TheDude>it would need to extend the generating script
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15:44<LordAro>you have a corresponding .hpp file, i assume?
15:44<TheDude>nono, I have no new file, I added new class to script_townlist
15:45<TheDude>to hpp and cpp
15:45<TheDude>but the squirrel_export.sh does not found the new class then
15:45<TheDude>maybe it is not built for generating templates for new classes
15:46<LordAro>well it should - it finds other classes
15:46<TheDude>hm, true
15:46<TheDude>but it does not, maybe I skipped something
15:47<LordAro>TheDude: indeed
15:47<LordAro>can you post your diff? (e.g. paste.openttdcoop.org)
15:47<TheDude>sure
15:48<frosch123>is there any other hpp file with two classes?
15:48<TheDude>what do yo umean frosch?
15:48<TheDude>let me post the diff
15:48<frosch123>maybe it only works for one class per file
15:48<LordAro>frosch123: nope (e.g. script_townlist.hpp)
15:48<frosch123>ok, just guessing :)
15:49<TheDude>http://paste.openttdcoop.org/show/2302/
15:49<TheDude>in in script_townlist.hpp are already two classes, I added third
15:50<TheDude>actually I made all templates manually some time ago and it runs well, but after some time I found out those templates should be generated automatically, so I am trying to do it the right way now
15:51<LordAro>and this compiles fine?
15:51<TheDude>but as LordAro said, classes should be generated too
15:51<TheDude>yes
15:51<TheDude>with the templates I did manually
15:53<LordAro>"../../network/luuk_cb.h" looks suspicious :P
15:54<TheDude>yes, it is old luukland code ;-)
15:54<TheDude>but even if I omit functions from external files, the class wont be found
15:54<LordAro>they released it?
15:54<TheDude>no
15:54<LordAro>in that case, boo, hiss, etc
15:54<TheDude>I am from old luukland team
15:54<LordAro>:L
15:55<TheDude>what is this negative emotions doing here :p
15:56<LordAro>i think you'll probably find that everything luukland's servers did can now be done with goal scripts
15:56<TheDude>not all
15:56<TheDude>but very much indeed
15:56<LordAro>most things, anyway
15:56<TheDude>I know
15:56<TheDude>but it is not that easy, you know
15:58<LordAro>well, nothing about your code indicates that there's anything wrong
15:58<LordAro>you sure your squirrel code is fine?
15:58<LordAro>it should work :)
15:59<LordAro>as far as i can tell
15:59<LordAro>:L
15:59<TheDude>yes
16:00<TheDude>as I said, it works and runs on server
16:00<TheDude>maybe I should move it to script_town as a function and not do it as a class
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16:00<LordAro>maybe :L
16:02<LordAro>what does the luukland code do that can't be done via goal scripts or the admin port? i'm struggling to thing of anything... :L
16:02<LordAro>i never really played on the server much
16:02<LordAro>*servers
16:03<TheDude> well
16:04<TheDude>house destroying when town supply is not sufficient, private areas protection
16:05<TheDude>town generation conditions, like small towns under 500 pop
16:05<TheDude>and some details
16:05<LordAro>can goal scripts not do that?
16:05<TheDude>but I dont know what all can admin port do
16:05<TheDude>no
16:05<TheDude>but even if it can
16:05<LordAro>could've sworn they could :L
16:05<TheDude>should we rewrite whole code just because of that?
16:05<TheDude>well, tell that to btpro and n-ice communities, they will be very happy if that worked alraedy
16:06<TheDude>they use admin port and GS
16:06<TheDude>you know, situation is, we have working robust code, rewriting it to AP and GS makes not much sense, as we would spend huge amount of time just to get the same or limitied functionality
16:07<TheDude>I believe you can understand that
16:07<LordAro>well, obviously it is preferable that you use a default/vanilla/unmodified version of ottd, as then support can be provided when things go wrong
16:07<TheDude>what support you mean?
16:07<LordAro>bugs, etc
16:07<LordAro>even missing features, to some extent
16:08<TheDude>well
16:08<TheDude>bugs, if we discover bug we think is from vanilla, we test it on vanilla and then report it
16:08<TheDude>otherwise it is our bug and we solve it
16:08<LordAro>troo
16:08-!-TrueBrain [~truebrain@ip82-139-82-247.lijbrandt.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
16:09<LordAro>but still, no one (at this 'end') is very keen on you hacking the network protocols like you do
16:09<TheDude>and I guess most of the features we would want doesnt make sense in openttd anyway
16:10<LordAro>as desyncs etc caused by your servers get reported to 'us'
16:10<TheDude>that is sad, I am sorry about that
16:11<LordAro>you should be :P
16:11<TheDude>we try to instruct people to ask us first, but we dont have desync errors for a long time, the code is written by people who understand desync problem
16:11<TheDude>I truly am
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16:12<TheDude>but I guess you dont get much bug reports that would fall into that category, or do you?
16:12<LordAro>very few
16:12<LordAro>although i do remember at least one that was from your servers
16:13*LordAro sees if he can find it
16:13<@planetmaker>Generally. If you play with modified servers: announce them modified
16:13<@planetmaker>protocol and versions are for a reason
16:13<@planetmaker>provide custom downloads, if you play with custom versions. simple
16:14<@planetmaker>and use goal scripts for goals. Provide proper patches for enhancements, then possibilities in future versions increase
16:14<@planetmaker>you're basically leaching on others work. And burden them with "fame" for your errors and needless works. While craving for the fame of "nice" servers
16:14<@planetmaker>sounds ... not so nice
16:15<TheDude>shame on us
16:16<@planetmaker>yeah. Only take. Little get back. From developer's perspective
16:16<@planetmaker>that's something I find personally very sad
16:16<TheDude>our code is not convinient in openttd anyway
16:16<TheDude>unless you want mysql in it ;-)
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16:17<@planetmaker>In the mid term it would be *much* more profitable for all, if this were openly handled
16:17<TheDude>and we get back the servers where people can play
16:17<@planetmaker>we are. People like you not. That saddens me
16:18<@planetmaker>yeah. *you* get. And take. And give? People the idea playing a game they don't actually play
16:18<TheDude>I meant give back
16:19<TheDude>I am sorry it troubles you
16:19<TheDude>but we gave back some code actually
16:19<@planetmaker>we give *all* code.
16:19<@planetmaker>without conditions and questions asked
16:20<@planetmaker>well. without questions asked. Condition is the license
16:20<TheDude>yes, thanks for that
16:21<TheDude>but you had to count with a chance someone will take it and not give it back, and that is us, we joined the dark side of the power :)
16:21<@planetmaker>"Oh, I played OpenTTD and I could do X and Y on server Z" - "No, you did not play OpenTTD. You played a hacked, personally modified version..."
16:21<V453000>and you cant give code back because
16:21<@planetmaker>You know how often I explain that?
16:21<TheDude>yes, it is hacked
16:21<__ln__>LordAro: how is ls ../*.hpp better than just ../*.hpp?
16:21<samu>there were some desyncs and unexpected packet or invalid packets on my game a few days ago, but then again, I belive it was my internet anyway.
16:22<LordAro>__ln__: don't ask me, i didn't write it :L
16:22<@planetmaker>No problem with hacks. But *claim* they're hacks. You go under the pretense of NOT cheating while you heavily do
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16:22<TheDude>we do not cheat, and on our site is mentioned the servers are heavily patched
16:22<@planetmaker>I do not see that when I just launch OpenTTD and join a server
16:23<TheDude>you may had some personal problems with Luukland, but exclude me from that please
16:23<@planetmaker>and people don't read. We have different versions for that reason
16:24<TheDude>exactly, most people cant tell the difference anyway
16:24<LordAro>the point is that they can't tell the difference when things go wrong either
16:24<@planetmaker>yeah. Forgery
16:24<TheDude>and if they dont like our gameplay, they quit
16:25<@planetmaker>and I really wonder: why do you go through these length. To patch. To hack. Each year. And ... not invest that amount of time you spend there to generally improve the game?
16:25*LordAro -> afk
16:25<samu>Luukland uses NewGRF
16:25<LordAro>have fun all
16:25<samu>i don't like NewGRFs anyway
16:25<LordAro>don't get too ragey :)
16:26<@planetmaker>I only get sleepy and bored. And no answer
16:27<TheDude>well, there is no answer that would satisfy you anyway
16:27<@planetmaker>you never tried
16:27<TheDude>I joined luukland after the patch was there
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16:28<TheDude>why they went to those lengths? well, there was no other way to do city building, which was the main goal, the way they wanted at that time, which is 2009
16:28<TheDude>so they did a patch
16:28<TheDude>with lot of goals and mysql connection
16:28<TheDude>so they could provide some game data to web and for players
16:29<TheDude>patching does not take much time you know, only developping new things does
16:31<@planetmaker>so you now told (again) what that patch did (and does?). Why do you still use it while there's a proper interface now, the admin port?
16:32<TheDude>as I also did told, GS and AP, even while it is improving more and more, it is still way behind compared what we have in our patch for years
16:33<samu>GS is goal script?
16:33<TheDude>and even if it wasnt, rewriting it is useless
16:33<@planetmaker>"we" -> you part of luukland. Comparison wrong? ;-)
16:33<TheDude>luukland is no more actually
16:33<TheDude>Luuk quited the openttd world
16:33<@planetmaker>why is writing it in a framework which is generally supported useless? Every OpenTTD player could potentially profit
16:34<@Rubidium>planetmaker: you lose your edge?
16:34<@planetmaker>As well as your patch maintenance. Or is the real fear that you would loose part of your perceived "specialness"?
16:34<TheDude>because rewriting is to omuch work, and now we are only two left, too busy for that
16:34<TheDude>we are maunly maintaing it
16:35<samu>Game Script or Goal Script?
16:35<samu>GS?
16:35<TheDude>General Store
16:35<TheDude>why do we not make it public
16:36<@planetmaker>"everyone could do it" ;-)
16:36<TheDude>there are some stuff in it, that are indeed not good for making public, like the mysql code, we do not want to show our database, as it is secret community stuff
16:37<TheDude>there is already an interface with AP and GS, running on n-ice and btpro, that is the way to use now
16:37<@planetmaker>good one
16:38<@planetmaker>or you mean an interface to use the official API for GS and AI?
16:38<@planetmaker>interface for API... sounds queer
16:39<samu>hmm a question: is it possible to alter company performance rating score criteria or scale it dependant on map size or Game Script?
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16:40<@planetmaker>make your own GS with your own scores, samu
16:40<samu>so it's possible?!
16:41<samu>change 120 vehicles to get 100 rate points to 240 vehicles to get the same 100 points?
16:43<@planetmaker>probably
16:43<samu>^_^!!! me likes it
16:44<@planetmaker>good night
16:44<Ristovski>Good night!
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16:48<samu>256x256 map size would be the baseline
16:49-!-X-Frank-X [~frank@095-096-099-146.static.chello.nl] has joined #openttd
16:49<samu>2048x2048 - 64x bigger, woah, 7680 vehicles to get 100 points :o
16:50<frosch123>maybe we get intel or amd sponsoring then
16:50<V453000>lol
16:51-!-X-Frank-X is now known as Frank|BTPro
16:54<samu>wasn't that aware how big that map size is
16:55<V453000>it only shows how pointless it is to play more than 1k*512
16:55<V453000>cause you cant really ever fill it
16:56<@Rubidium>http://www.cs.technion.ac.il/events/2013/1806/ <- might be an interesting talk, but I doubt I'll make it on time
16:57-!-Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p57BD43DE.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd
16:58<frosch123>didn't that guy mailed us some years ago?
16:58<@Rubidium>yup
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17:01<frosch123>their personal includes a lot of "lead"
17:02<@Rubidium>yeah, it's a scam ;)
17:02<frosch123>http://www.allmystery.de/i/tbe8992_bauarbeiter-als-manager-einer-arbeitet-v.jpg
17:02<@Rubidium>they're just researching lead
17:02<@Rubidium>(Pb)
17:02<frosch123>:)
17:03<@Rubidium>that reminds me of https://i.chzbgr.com/maxW500/7522095872/h161F00C0/
17:03<samu>oops, autorenew conflicting with refit orders hummph:
17:03<samu>can't go away from game or risk stopped ships
17:04-!-TheDude [~oftc-webi@2.237.broadband7.iol.cz] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
17:05<samu>woah there's ppl on my game, that's a miracle, lol
17:06<samu>when I say max clients: 4, does it could me as client?
17:06<samu>count*
17:15<@Rubidium>I reckon is does
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17:21<samu>just remembered some idea I had while playing a month ago
17:21<samu>auto-loan
17:21<samu>lol
17:25<samu>it would display my current cash based on a fake max loan
17:26<samu>while my real loan would be auto-adjusted
17:27<samu>bad idea for competitive servers though
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17:30<samu>It would adjust automaticaly depending how I'd spend my money
17:30<samu>no longer displaying not enough cash errors, unless I was indeed already max loaning
17:40<frosch123>night
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17:58<samu>can i prevent a town from building on slopes, but not players?
17:58<samu>all towns in fact
17:59<V453000>I would suggest to prevent towns from building roads in general
18:00-!-DDR [~chatzilla@d108-180-70-43.bchsia.telus.net] has joined #openttd
18:00<samu>that's a dilema, I want them to expand freely except building on slopes, at least coast slopes, they block ships
18:00<samu>even with buildings
18:00<V453000>why do you want towns to expand freely
18:01<V453000>if people use them, they need to care for them anyway, so they need to build roads
18:01<V453000>if nobody needs them, they dont obstacle
18:01<V453000>win-win
18:01<V453000>plus if people actually care for them, they probably want a specific road layout to their desire, not some random or grid one as defined by the game
18:04<LordAro>night all
18:05-!-LordAro [~LordAro@host217-43-26-155.range217-43.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal]
18:09<Eddi|zuHause>if you disable town roads, you have to pay maintenance
18:13<V453000>lol
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18:59<samu>lol, why do I laugh at this...
19:03<samu>http://sdrv.ms/10Qhmh9
19:20<Wolf01>'night all
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19:30<samu>oops, I triggered a crash
19:32<samu>an evil one, it screws my desktop composition
19:34<samu>I can reproduce it too, well, reporting it
19:34<samu>brb
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19:40<samu>http://dev.openttdcoop.org/zBase/issues
19:41<samu>http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/zBase/issues
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20:02<samu>http://bugs.openttd.org/task/5571
20:02<samu>did I report in the wrong place?
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20:02<samu>it's a zBase crash
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21:13<perk11>looks like a legit place for report to me
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---Logclosed Sun Jun 02 00:00:47 2013