Back to Home / #openttd / 2013 / 06 / Prev Day | Next Day
#openttd IRC Logs for 2013-06-05

---Logopened Wed Jun 05 00:00:51 2013
00:51-!-Pecio [] has joined #openttd
01:28-!-Prof_Frink [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
02:25-!-roadt [~roadt@] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
02:32-!-zooks [] has joined #openttd
02:44-!-Devroush [] has joined #openttd
03:08-!-zooks [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
03:08-!-sla_ro|master [slamaster@] has joined #openttd
03:14-!-DDR [] has quit [Quit: DDR is not Dance Dance Revolution.]
03:21-!-roadt [~roadt@] has joined #openttd
03:22-!-valhallasw [] has joined #openttd
03:30-!-Dr_Tan [] has joined #openttd
03:37-!-Nat_aS [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
03:43-!-valhallasw [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
03:46-!-wakou2 [] has joined #openttd
03:48-!-Tvel [~Thunderbi@] has joined #openttd
03:55<SineTheCreator>i guess it's not possible to auto-replace cars that must be refit?
03:56<SineTheCreator>nevermind, seems it is
03:57<SineTheCreator>i hope they keep the refit
03:57-!-Devroush367 [] has joined #openttd
04:00-!-Devroush [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
04:02-!-valhallasw [] has joined #openttd
04:10-!-roadt [~roadt@] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
04:16-!-oskari89 [] has joined #openttd
04:17<SineTheCreator>with the UK renewal set i've noticed that freight engines start being phased out in the late 20th century
04:17<SineTheCreator>is that normal? or were they going for total realism
04:46-!-adit [~adit@] has joined #openttd
04:46-!-pugi [] has joined #openttd
05:24-!-oskari89 [] has quit []
05:27-!-TheMask96 [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
05:27-!-TheMask96 [] has joined #openttd
05:55-!-Eddi|zuHause [] has joined #openttd
06:00-!-ZxBiohazardZx [] has joined #openttd
06:01-!-Ristovski [~rafael@] has joined #openttd
06:15-!-sla_ro|master [slamaster@] has quit []
06:26-!-Elukka [] has joined #openttd
06:29-!-snorre_ [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
06:31-!-Eddi|zuHause2 [] has joined #openttd
06:31-!-Eddi|zuHause2 [] has quit []
06:38-!-roadt [~roadt@] has joined #openttd
06:42-!-ZxBiohazardZx [] has quit [Quit: Pull the pin and count to what?]
06:44-!-snorre [] has joined #openttd
06:45-!-Pinkbeast [] has quit [Quit: leaving]
06:46-!-Pinkbeast [] has joined #openttd
06:47-!-Pinkbeast [] has quit []
06:48-!-Pinkbeast [] has joined #openttd
06:54-!-snorre_ [] has joined #openttd
06:55-!-snorre [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
07:10-!-snorre [] has joined #openttd
07:11-!-snorre_ [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
07:28-!-HerzogDeXtEr [] has joined #openttd
07:38<SineTheCreator>is there any way to load/interact with the map that plays behind the main menu?
07:38<SineTheCreator>i have always wanted to do that
07:40<Pinkbeast>Sine: It's a savegame like any other
07:40<Pinkbeast> describes how the new one was found
07:40<Pinkbeast>... I don't know where it lives in an install, though.
07:40<SineTheCreator>Pinkbeast: thanks man, i'll check it out!
07:49-!-Pecio [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
08:08-!-TrueBrain [] has quit [Quit: reboot]
08:22-!-TrueBrain [] has joined #openttd
08:29<Eddi|zuHause>just rename opntitle.dat to .sav
08:33<@peter1138>who deals with expect scripts?
08:34-!-Kurimus [] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
08:39-!-Kurimus [] has joined #openttd
08:47<Ristovski>planetmaker: Check G+ :D
08:52<@planetmaker>hm, yes, thanks, Ristovski
08:53<Ristovski>planetmaker: No problem :P
08:59-!-oskari89 [] has joined #openttd
09:09-!-oskari89 [] has quit []
09:15-!-HellTiger [] has joined #openttd
09:19-!-roadt [~roadt@] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
10:01-!-mindlesstux [] has quit [Quit: ZNC -]
10:03-!-mindlesstux [] has joined #openttd
10:10-!-ntoskrnl [] has joined #openttd
10:24-!-ntoskrnl11 [] has joined #openttd
10:25-!-samu [] has joined #openttd
10:30-!-sla_ro|master [slamaster@] has joined #openttd
10:32-!-ntoskrnl [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
10:37-!-snorre_ [] has joined #openttd
10:38-!-snorre [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
10:41-!-mindlesstux [] has quit [Quit: ZNC -]
10:41-!-mindlesstux [] has joined #openttd
10:42<Eddi|zuHause>"This is now the highest water level in 400 years" :o
10:48-!-mindlesstux [] has quit [Quit: ZNC -]
10:52<@Rubidium>Eddi|zuHause: congratulations with reaching that milestone ;)
10:52<@Rubidium>do they already know when levels might be normal again?
10:53<Eddi|zuHause>it apparently is already sinking again
10:59-!-snorre [] has joined #openttd
11:00-!-snorre_ [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
11:15<samu>sound problem again
11:19<samu>sound mixer, how should it look like when i play sound, and music with openttd
11:19<samu>1 openttd or 2 openttds?
11:20<samu>i can mute sound by application
11:21<samu>windows media player, if i mute that application, no more music from windows media player... how would that work with openttd playing sound and music at the same time...
11:22<@Rubidium>what about just trying it?
11:22<samu>music doesn't play
11:22<samu>sound still plays
11:22<samu>1 icon on sound mixer
11:22<samu>1 openttd
11:23<samu>nevermind, nothing plays now
11:23<samu>no sound, no music
11:23<samu>bah, i hate this
11:24<samu>window media player still plays
11:25<samu>openttd also seems to be playing, but with only sound, and very delayed sound all delayed, cut and playing at once
11:25<samu>no msuic
11:27<samu>i hear sound coming from openttd once in 2 minutes... that's a gigantic delay, sounds effects from the game seem mixed on top of each other
11:28-!-ivan` [~ivan`] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
11:29<samu>ah, interesting, i stopped "playing" midi
11:29-!-ivan` [~ivan`] has joined #openttd
11:29<samu>sound effects are now playing fine
11:29<samu>no delays, no cuts, no stutter
11:30<samu>clicked stop button on openttd jukebox
11:30<samu>windows media player still working
11:30<samu>no issues at all with wmp, just openttd trying to play midi
11:31-!-glx [] has joined #openttd
11:31-!-mode/#openttd [+v glx] by ChanServ
11:33-!-snorre_ [] has joined #openttd
11:35<samu>uh oh, this is not over... i have a delay starting a 2nd openttd
11:35-!-snorre [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
11:36<samu>took about 30 seconds to start up openttd :/
11:36<samu>no sound coming out of this one
11:38<samu>let me restart windows media player - i precting it's going mute
11:39<samu>i knew it...
11:39<samu>no sound from windows media player
11:41-!-snorre [] has joined #openttd
11:41-!-oskari89 [] has joined #openttd
11:42-!-snorre_ [] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out]
11:42-!-valhallasw [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
11:43-!-Polleke [] has joined #openttd
11:44-!-KouDy [~KouDy@] has joined #openttd
11:45<samu>screw it, i'm restarting windows
11:45-!-samu [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
11:47-!-samu [] has joined #openttd
11:47<samu>good, everything's fixed now
11:49-!-KenjiE20 [kenjie20@2001:470:dc50:b0::21] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
11:50-!-snorre_ [] has joined #openttd
11:51-!-snorre [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
11:53<samu>sound mixer displays 1 openttd - it controls both music and sound, they're working fine for now
11:54-!-Alice3 [] has joined #openttd
11:56<samu>started a 2nd openttd, music and sound playing fine again, 1 more openttd displaying on windows sound mixer
12:00-!-Ristovski [~rafael@] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
12:00<SineTheCreator>samu: why do you need two openttds running?
12:01<samu>for some testings with AIs, or experimenting some builds on the current game going on
12:01-!-KenjiE20 [kenjie20@2001:470:dc50:b0::21] has joined #openttd
12:07-!-Progman [] has joined #openttd
12:08<samu>i'm showing you a screenshot with it working as it should. Whenever it screws up again, I'm screenshoting again, you'll notice one or more programs trying to play on a sound device I don't use, or just playing mute on the only sound device
12:09<samu>working fine:
12:13-!-snorre [] has joined #openttd
12:13<samu>shorter link,same as above:
12:14-!-snorre_ [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
12:22<@planetmaker>yeah, seen that from UPS before. In my real-life inbox
12:22-!-alluke [] has joined #openttd
12:23<alluke>ooh its hot in here
12:23<alluke>he he ;)
12:24-!-pugi [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
12:26<samu>similar to chat
12:28<samu>only typing from within a game to others on the same game shows the correct latin script
12:28<samu>typing from a game to someone on a friend list... messes up
12:28<samu>typing on a chat channel messes up
12:28<samu>typing from a chat channel to someone inside a game messes up
12:29<samu>"don't worry, it's blizzard - they're the best"!!!
12:31<Eddi|zuHause>"if this flood doesn't stop soon, Schröder will win the election" :p
12:31-!-TheMask96 [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
12:35-!-TheMask96 [] has joined #openttd
12:36-!-Prof_Frink [] has joined #openttd
12:36<tycoondemon>hwinfo is tha like a safe program? samu?
12:39<samu>i had a few system lock ups on startup before with it, but that was fixed with a BIOS update on MB
12:40*Eddi|zuHause tries to look up whether "system lock ups" and "BIOS update" fall under the definition of "safe"
12:40<samu>safe, what safe do you mean?
12:41<samu>it was trying to load up sensors at startup, and some sensor would lock the whoel system
12:41<SineTheCreator>so i have discovered something interesting about default industries
12:42<SineTheCreator>i've noticed that if you build your trains with twice as many cars to fit the capacity an industry puts out every month, you make a lot more profit compared to shorter trains. i've also noticed that industries ramp up production quicker if you do it this way
12:43<SineTheCreator>for example if an oil field puts out 120,000 liters of oil, i would build a train that can carry 240,000 or as close to that as possible
12:43<Eddi|zuHause>yes. you should time the trains in a way that there is always one waiting
12:43<Eddi|zuHause>but oil fields never increase production
12:43<SineTheCreator>yep. sometimes i have three or even four trains assigned to one primary station, and even more for stations that cater to multiple primaries
12:44<SineTheCreator>it just depends on distance
12:44<SineTheCreator>Eddi|zuHause: they don't?
12:44<SineTheCreator>well that sucks
12:44<SineTheCreator>well, i did it the same way for fruit. one my fruit plantations is outputting about 300% of it's base production rate
12:45<@planetmaker>@calc 256*8
12:45<@DorpsGek>planetmaker: 2048
12:45<@planetmaker>it can output 2048 per month ;-)
12:45<SineTheCreator>it started at 104 and it now going at 296
12:46<SineTheCreator>is now*
12:46<Eddi|zuHause>@calc 255*9
12:46<@DorpsGek>Eddi|zuHause: 2295
12:46<SineTheCreator>where do these figures come from anyway?
12:46<Eddi|zuHause>it can't do 256 per production cycle, only 255
12:46<SineTheCreator>also i wonder if it's time to convert some of these stations to RoRo
12:47<Eddi|zuHause>and there are 8 or 9 production cycles per month
12:48<Eddi|zuHause>(that's why the display will fluctuate up and down a bit, without it announcing that it increased or decreased production)
12:55<SineTheCreator>that explains a lot
12:55<SineTheCreator>so how do we get to those insane numberS?
12:55<SineTheCreator>obviously having trains waiting isn't enough
12:55<@planetmaker>continue as you do
12:56<SineTheCreator>i know there's also a speed bonus for trains that go faster than 85 km/h
12:56<SineTheCreator>planetmaker: so it just takes decades basically?
12:56<@planetmaker>having any vehicle load at all times is sufficient to get there. But it takes time. It's a random walk wiht a positive trend
12:57<SineTheCreator>is there a newgrf that changes it to a more stable increase?
12:57<Eddi|zuHause>i'm not sure anyone ever did the calculations on what the average time to get to full production is
12:57<SineTheCreator>i realize it'd be a cheat of sorts but it'd be fun to play with
12:57-!-snorre [] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out]
12:57<Eddi|zuHause>this also depends on whether you use the original or smooth economy
12:57<Eddi|zuHause>yes, ECS and FIRS both have a feedback loop mechanism that guides this randomness
12:58<Eddi|zuHause>in ECS that is vehicles, and in FIRS it's supplies
13:00-!-Defaultti [] has quit [Quit: Quitting.]
13:02-!-snorre_ [] has joined #openttd
13:07-!-Defaultti [] has joined #openttd
13:08-!-KouDy [~KouDy@] has quit [Quit: Leaving.]
13:10-!-KouDy [~KouDy@] has joined #openttd
13:13-!-DarkAceZ [~BillyMays@] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
13:15-!-snorre [] has joined #openttd
13:16-!-zooks [] has joined #openttd
13:17-!-snorre_ [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
13:20-!-Alberth [] has joined #openttd
13:20-!-mode/#openttd [+o Alberth] by ChanServ
13:20<@planetmaker>hello Alberth
13:27-!-snorre [] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out]
13:31-!-DarkAceZ [~BillyMays@] has joined #openttd
13:33-!-snorre [] has joined #openttd
13:39-!-murr4y [] has quit [Quit: WeeChat]
13:39-!-murr4y [] has joined #openttd
13:43<SineTheCreator>so water pumps do ramp up production but oil do not?
13:45<@DorpsGek>Commit by translators :: r25322 trunk/src/lang/german.txt (2013-06-05 17:45:08 UTC)
13:45<@DorpsGek>-Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
13:45<@DorpsGek>german - 1 changes by Jogio
13:46-!-gelignite [] has joined #openttd
13:52-!-ntoskrnl11 [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
13:59-!-Elukka [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
14:04<samu>i'm so noob at train signals yet :(
14:04-!-Polleke [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
14:05<MNIM>It takes time.
14:05<MNIM>I've played quite a bit of OTTD, and Im only now getting the hang of priority signaling.
14:07<samu>do you know that Y like piece of tracks the TTDX AI do?
14:07<samu>or SimpleAI
14:09<samu>1 main track, split into 2 tracks using that Y, then closing in with another Y back to the main track again?
14:10<samu>i'm trying to put as many trains as possible using the Y's
14:11<samu>I fail all the time
14:12<samu>brb, i'm going to screeshot, maybe someone could help aftewards
14:20-!-Elukka [] has joined #openttd
14:22<NGC3982>The Kirby Machine is taking shape.
14:23<V453000>samu: why not make the double rail on full length?
14:23<samu>no signals because I'm trying to figure out which signals
14:24<samu>it's just so it fits the screenshot
14:25-!-frosch123 [] has joined #openttd
14:25-!-Wolf01 [] has joined #openttd
14:26<@Alberth>hi Wolf01
14:27<@Alberth>samu: and further
14:27<SineTheCreator>okay guys, got another odd train issue to ask about
14:27<SineTheCreator>it's another cloverleaf junction. in this one, i have ONE train that is coming from NE and should go SW
14:27<SineTheCreator>it does go SW, but for some reason, it follows the orange line instead of the green line
14:28<SineTheCreator>there was no train in front. i am using one-way path signals.
14:28<frosch123>V453000: \o/
14:28<V453000>solution never ever build cloverleaf ever unless until threat of death
14:28<SineTheCreator>other trains make the same route without doing the unnecessary loop
14:29<SineTheCreator>they've worked fine for me until this one junction
14:29<V453000>nothing to say
14:29<SineTheCreator>so what you're saying is that you may know why this happening but you won't tell me? :D
14:30<@planetmaker>no. He says that cloverleaf junctions are inefficient as hell
14:30<@planetmaker>no better way to jam a network than by cloverleaf junctions
14:31<SineTheCreator>eh, they work fine for me. on my other game i've got one that junctions two mainline backbones and it never jams
14:31<SineTheCreator>it's all in how you do the signals
14:31<V453000>what I meant was that you just discovered why it is terrible
14:31<V453000>or one of the reasons, to be more exact
14:31<V453000>and you ask why
14:31<Wolf01>they work with one train per time :D
14:31<SineTheCreator>V453000: if it's a pathing glitch, fine, that i can understand
14:31<@planetmaker>path finding cannot be judged from screenshots nor explanations alone
14:31<SineTheCreator>Wolf01: it's not the fastest solution, true. but it never jams :D
14:32<@planetmaker>SineTheCreator, it jams. Jams like hell
14:32<@planetmaker>independent nearly from signaling
14:32<SineTheCreator>now if you put signals at the apex point of the 'onramp' and the 'cloverleaf' then they do tend to jam
14:32<@planetmaker>unless you put only entry signals and no signal in the whole junction
14:32<SineTheCreator>that's what i do
14:32<SineTheCreator>it has entry signals and exit signals
14:32<@planetmaker>but then it's... as good as a one-tile * junction
14:33<@planetmaker>the exit signals will catch you ;-)
14:33<@Alberth>should work perfectly for 1 train :)
14:33<Wolf01>if there is a train blocking the path where is the green arrow point, the following train on the bridge might take the orange path because the direct path is blocked, then when it arrives on the intersecting line it founds the direct path is free and returns on that
14:33<SineTheCreator>but this allows more than one train to go over/under at the same time. it's more efficient than a * junction.
14:34<SineTheCreator>or even a + junction
14:34<@planetmaker>a * junction can't jam ;-)
14:34<SineTheCreator>neither can this. pay careful attention to my signals
14:34<@planetmaker>I do. it can
14:35<SineTheCreator>unless by jam you mean every now and then a train may need to stop to let the one in front of it go
14:35<Wolf01>if you use wisely the PBS, you can also make more trains use a + or a * junction at once
14:35<SineTheCreator>if you mean by jam that an impossible situation is created where no trains will ever be able to move forward, then it does not jam
14:35<SineTheCreator>i use the latter definition for jam
14:36<@planetmaker>so do I
14:36<@planetmaker>and I assert you that your analysis of the junction has flaws ;-)
14:36<SineTheCreator>okay then :D i can provide a map with heavy traffic over that kind of junction. proof that it does not jam.
14:36<@Alberth>SineTheCreator: throw some more trains at it, and see how it behaves :)
14:36<@planetmaker>works for a handful of trains without dense traffic != cannot jam
14:37<SineTheCreator>Alberth: i have another map that uses lots of those junctions. on the main one it has at least 20 trains pass through it every minute on fast-forward.
14:37<SineTheCreator>er more like 10 seconds
14:37<@planetmaker>20 trains per minute w/o ff
14:37<@planetmaker>input to all lines
14:38<SineTheCreator>hold on, i'll load that map and count them
14:38<@planetmaker>load the junction. Over load it. And you'll see that it can jam
14:39<@Alberth>SineTheCreator: <-- load a few games there to see what "big load" means :)
14:39<V453000>everything can jam, point is that cloverleaf can probably join the earliest ouf of all construction kinds
14:39<V453000>it has about every mistake possible
14:39<SineTheCreator>okay, i counted. 16 trains per minute at regular game speed
14:39<SineTheCreator>i dont know if that is average. but it's always busy.
14:40<V453000>busy is Full line coming from every end in and out
14:40<@planetmaker>your signaling of the junction is somewhat inconsistent
14:40<frosch123>anyone understands fs#5584?
14:42<@planetmaker>quite frankly, I don't, frosch123
14:42<SineTheCreator>Alberth: thanks, but i've played games years ago with over 1,000 trains. i know what heavy load is :D
14:42<TWerkhoven>the boxes should be as tall as one line, instead they are high enough to hold multiple lines ?
14:42<SineTheCreator>planetmaker: yeah, there's that one odd signal in the middle
14:42<SineTheCreator>it's for the station run
14:42<@planetmaker>only thing I can think of, is that the line separators in the list are... funny
14:42<frosch123>oh, the matrix grid lines
14:42<frosch123>how fancy
14:43<SineTheCreator>V453000: once again, i'll ask you to tell me what exactly makes it so bad. just saying "it's terrible and can jam" without giving no reason why doesn't really mean much.
14:43<SineTheCreator>er, giving any reason*
14:43<@Alberth>frosch123: that's what I thought too; somehow the number of rows is not inceased, it seems
14:44<@planetmaker>hm, #5586 is fixed already, yes?
14:44<V453000>first of all it is a 4way junction which in general is extremely unflexible and unexpandable. Second, your single bridge per line is dangerous and easy to jam or cause slowdowns, the return paths you marked mean that those are spots with increased train density which will break even more than other places
14:44-!-adit [~adit@] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
14:45<V453000>signals make no sense at all, when there are actually any signals
14:46<samu>i'm reading the wiki, so no matter what I do, I can only have 3 trains maximum given my sreenshot?
14:46<SineTheCreator>the signals actually make perfect sense if you look at them, but okay. also, aren't 4-way junctions kind of necessary? and return paths -- do you mean the lines i drew on the screenshot? because those were only supposed to show the issue this train is having finding it's correct path.
14:47<frosch123>Alberth: apparently broken since the store-default-window-size feature
14:47<SineTheCreator>and finally, there are few signals in the junction because if you add too many it WILL jam
14:47-!-mindlesstux [] has joined #openttd
14:47<V453000>the first junction is systematically what you need as a basic thing to work with
14:47<scshunt>why is it called a revue?
14:47<SineTheCreator>having fewer signals means only one train can go through the junction at a time on any axis, but it will never jam unless there's a wreck.
14:48<V453000>just is scshunt :)
14:48<SineTheCreator>V453000: eh... revue as in 'review'?
14:49<SineTheCreator>okay, well -> "A revue is a type of multi-act popular theatrical entertainment that combines music, dance and sketches."
14:49<SineTheCreator>doesn't make much sense in this context
14:50<V453000>a bit hard to explain
14:50<@Alberth>trains make no sound, and don't dance around the tracks? :o :)
14:50<V453000>look it is just a name k :D
14:50<SineTheCreator>and to be fair, sure, i could build some of those insane openttdcoop 4-way hubs. but for just a few trains isn't that just a bit unreasonable?
14:50<SineTheCreator>i mean, it's not like i've got 500 trains here
14:51<V453000>well why do you have just a few trains
14:51<V453000>I didnt say those are necessary for low throughput
14:51<SineTheCreator>i just started this new map this morning
14:51<V453000>but making a cloverleaf guarantees you wont be able to expand it to anything solid
14:51<SineTheCreator>i've only got 40-some trains
14:51<SineTheCreator>ahh, i see what you're saying
14:51<V453000>3-way junctions and leaving around a lot of space is the way to go for long-term games
14:51<SineTheCreator>it's hard to make it larger in the future
14:52<V453000>yes, in this context
14:52<V453000>cloverleaf is also bad in the present as I tried to hint earlier
14:52<SineTheCreator>but why is that? does it break pathing or something?
14:52<SineTheCreator>or just because the trains have to do a large curve?
14:53<V453000>just send there a lot of trains and you will see yourself
14:53<V453000>lets leave it at that
14:53<SineTheCreator>no i mean the loop itself, not the junction
14:53<SineTheCreator>for example my 3-way is two
14:53<SineTheCreator>two 'onramps' on one side of the line with bridges or tunnels and two cloverleaf loops on the opposite side
14:55<SineTheCreator>i.e. this ->
14:55<SineTheCreator>is that junction bad because it uses the cloverleaf loops?
14:56<V453000>sort of
14:56<V453000>to be exact, the top train is joining the top train before trains split from it
14:56<V453000>we call that join before split
14:56<V453000>meaning the part between those tracks gets increased traffic for no reason
14:57<SineTheCreator>i see what you mean now
14:57<SineTheCreator>you're talking about the piece of mainline that goes 'between' the entrance and exit ramps
14:57<SineTheCreator>they're reversed from how they should be
14:57<V453000>basically yes
14:57<SineTheCreator>so... how do i fix it? just make longer bridges/tunnels on one side of the track?
14:57<V453000>without that the junction is systematically alright
14:58<V453000>no just make one of them go to the other direction
14:58<V453000>aka e.g. make it wrap around the other one
14:58<V453000>causing it to join/split at the appropriate spot
15:00<samu>I couldn't make this work - 2 trains are waiting for the other 2 trains in the opposite direction
15:00<SineTheCreator>like this? ->
15:00-!-valhallasw [] has joined #openttd
15:01<samu>max is still 3 trains no matter what signals I can think of
15:01<V453000>SineTheCreator: it is preferable to remove the crossing
15:01<V453000>like a lot preferable :)
15:02<SineTheCreator>or like this? ->
15:02<SineTheCreator>yeah, i figured it was bad to have any kind of crossing like that :D
15:03<V453000>that fixes the issue entirely
15:03<SineTheCreator>there's no more efficient way?
15:03<V453000>another option
15:03<V453000>efficiency isnt only in such basic things
15:03<SineTheCreator>that is more efficient, both in balancing and space used
15:03<V453000>right now you have systematically solid construction
15:04<V453000>if it breaks you just need more lines, more bridges, more stuff
15:04<V453000>and building more brings more systematical things to be interested in
15:04<V453000>described at
15:07<SineTheCreator>V453000: when you say more lines, more bridges, etc, you mean like this ->
15:08<V453000>not quite, the crossings would create a lot of issues again
15:08<SineTheCreator>i'll take a look at those merging tracks and hubs pages too, thanks
15:08<V453000> this would be a very standard LL_RR junction
15:08<V453000>as you can see, single line differs from double tremendoulsy
15:09<V453000>mosly because you need to allow trains to choose which track to exit from the hub, described at the merging tracks page
15:09-!-pugi [] has joined #openttd
15:09<V453000>obviously this problematic applies to all line counts higher than 2
15:12<V453000>samu: build full 2-track :)
15:12<V453000>things like this are temporary and worthless
15:12<V453000>by which I dont mean you cant fix your thing
15:13<samu>ah, i'm interested in that
15:14<SineTheCreator>samu: yes, definitely 2-track all the way :D
15:15<SineTheCreator>instead of having the depot at your station head, run the track all the way on that side. then put the depot somewhere else. it can be on the incoming or outgoing line, your choice.
15:15<SineTheCreator>i like to put my depots in-line and remove the 'cross' track section. forced maintenance.
15:16<V453000>depot placement is also possible to make reasonable conclusions of but I wont bother you with that now
15:16<samu>what do you name those 2 Y things?
15:16<SineTheCreator>i do try to balance them. i.e. if i have depot on outgoing line at station A, i like to have one on outgoing line at station B too, if it's a long trip
15:18-!-zooks [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
15:19<samu>I wanted to solve this puzzle with only signals
15:20<@Alberth>send the outermost trains back to the depot
15:20<V453000>then try to see how path reserving works samu, and remove the signals where trains stop and arent meant to stop
15:21<@Alberth>samu: don't place signals at points where a train would block the junction if it stops in fron of the signal
15:22<V453000>if you want a serious hint, do not use the path based (red) signals
15:22<V453000>they will confuse you a lot more in the long run
15:23-!-cyph3r [] has joined #openttd
15:24<samu>ok, i removed 2 signals at each Y thing
15:24<samu>the back-most
15:24<@Alberth>that should work
15:32<alluke>this will work
15:33<samu>yeah that's how I have
15:33<MNIM>that works
15:33<samu>train size can't be too large
15:33<samu>too ling
15:33<alluke>they must fit into the passing places
15:34<MNIM>protip: put the signals at the diagonal pieces instead, gives you one tile extra
15:34<alluke>i know
15:34<alluke>i have it in the leftmost one
15:34<samu>yes,that's where i did singals
15:34<alluke>harder at the other one
15:34<MNIM>alluke: ah, didn't notice
15:34<MNIM>'s late
15:34<samu>so I can now put an infinite number of trains? they will wait inside depots?
15:34<alluke>because i prefer to keep right-hand traffic
15:35<samu>but will always circulate?
15:36-!-Devroush367 [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
15:38<samu>guess I rather not
15:38<samu>it works, but sometimes a train waits too long inside a depot
15:41-!-andythenorth [] has joined #openttd
15:41<andythenorth>@seen pikka
15:41<@DorpsGek>andythenorth: pikka was last seen in #openttd 10 weeks, 6 days, 10 hours, 58 minutes, and 47 seconds ago: <Pikka> I do not want to watch a half-hour video for the one little piece of information I need and which probably isn't in there anyway
15:41<andythenorth>@seen yexo
15:41<@DorpsGek>andythenorth: yexo was last seen in #openttd 26 weeks, 5 days, 6 hours, 25 minutes, and 17 seconds ago: <Yexo> <NGC3982> The station glitches are CHIPS related. I adressed it to Andy the other day, and it seems like it's b0rked in some way. <- it's still in the issue tracker for CHIPS, but I haven't had time to look at it yet
15:43<samu>thank you all
15:43-!-roadt [~roadt@] has joined #openttd
15:44<@Alberth>samu: double tracks everywhere is much more efficient
15:44-!-Ristovski [~rafael@] has joined #openttd
15:45<alluke>doubletrack it all
15:45<alluke>and get bigger trains
15:45<alluke>theyre more efficient than short ones
15:47-!-Eddi|zuHause [] has quit []
15:47<@Alberth>only if you have large amounts of cargo to move :)
15:56<samu>those entry and exit signals won't help here ?
15:58<@Alberth>not useful mostly, they were created before there were path signals
15:58<@planetmaker>good night
15:59<@Alberth>some V persons here will disagree with that statement :)
15:59<@Alberth>night planetmaker
15:59<alluke>help where?
16:00<@Alberth>in openttdcoop signal magic :)
16:01<@Alberth>but don't worry about that for a long time :)
16:01-!-andythenorth [] has left #openttd []
16:02-!-cyph3r [] has quit [Quit: Miranda IM! Smaller, Faster, Easier.]
16:02<@planetmaker> has it all
16:02<samu>how does the priority of a train getting out a depot works if there's mutliple trains inside waiting to go out? who goes out first?
16:03<@Alberth>the first one, but there is no way to tell which it is
16:03<alluke>what are those 90° turns in the second pic
16:04<alluke>looks really stupid
16:04<alluke>trains cant even drive there
16:05<samu>I get train 5 going into a depot, then waits
16:05<samu>a train 6 goes into that same depot with 5 inside
16:05<@Alberth>alluke: the priority page? tracks are used solely for passing a signal between blocks there
16:05<samu>then 6 goes out first
16:06<alluke>good thing im realistic player
16:07<samu>between 6 going out, there's some other train that doesn't go to depot, but goes to the station instead
16:07<alluke>are you hosting again
16:07<samu>train 6 and 5 are waiting, but still... 6 goes out first
16:07-!-Alberth [] has left #openttd []
16:07<samu> me? yes
16:08<samu>dang, can't copy paste
16:10<samu>name: Approaching easy difficulty
16:11<samu>the sound issue is back again....
16:19-!-oskari892 [] has joined #openttd
16:22-!-Devroush [] has joined #openttd
16:25-!-tokai|noir [] has joined #openttd
16:25-!-mode/#openttd [+v tokai|noir] by ChanServ
16:25-!-oskari89 [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
16:25<alluke>fts has become so popular that showtek made a song about it
16:29<samu>waveOutWrite failed - Sounds are disabled until restart. [OK]
16:29<samu>what is this?
16:30-!-tokai|mdlx [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
16:34-!-roadt [~roadt@] has quit [Read error: No route to host]
16:37-!-samu [] has quit [Quit: Page closed]
16:39-!-sla_ro|master [slamaster@] has quit []
16:40-!-frosch123 [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
16:43-!-KouDy [~KouDy@] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
16:45-!-flaa [~flaa@] has joined #openttd
16:46-!-snorre_ [] has joined #openttd
16:48-!-gelignite [] has quit [Quit:]
16:48-!-snorre [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
16:50-!-Progman [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
17:00-!-snorre [] has joined #openttd
17:02-!-snorre_ [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
17:11-!-samu [] has joined #openttd
17:11<samu>someone talk to me, i wanna see if IE10 is playing sound
17:12-!-snorre_ [] has joined #openttd
17:12<samu>samu: test
17:13-!-snorre [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
17:14<samu>i think i fixed audio again, must confirm IE10, the only thing I didn't exited while killing processes
17:17-!-Djohaal [] has joined #openttd
17:17<alluke>does someone really use ie
17:19-!-oskari89 [] has joined #openttd
17:19<alluke>scooter - see me feel me
17:19<alluke>gotta love the ol classix
17:20<samu>talk to me liek this please
17:20<samu>samu: blabal
17:20<alluke>samu: blabal
17:20-!-flaa [~flaa@] has quit [Quit: leaving]
17:20<samu>BAH.... no sound
17:20<samu>ok must restart IE10, brb
17:20-!-samu [] has quit [Quit: Page closed]
17:20<alluke>ie is your problem
17:20<alluke>get firefox
17:21-!-samu [] has joined #openttd
17:21<samu>ty, try again plz
17:21<alluke>why do you use ie
17:21<alluke>samu: get firefox
17:21<samu>aha, i get sound, thank you
17:21<samu>so, my sound problem is some audio service
17:22<samu>I have 3 audio services, is it normal to have 3? maybe more...
17:22<alluke>i still dont know whats audio service
17:23<samu>going to windows services, there a crapload of services I have no idea what they're for, there's at least 3 I noticed related to audio
17:25-!-oskari892 [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
17:27-!-snorre [] has joined #openttd
17:27<samu>i have tried firefox before
17:27-!-Ristovski [~rafael@] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
17:28-!-snorre_ [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
17:29<samu>my parents aren't familiar with ff interface
17:29<samu>so i went back to ie
17:30<samu>i only have 1 system with a browser other than ie, it uses chrome
17:30<samu>because neither ie or ff work
17:30<samu>my parents don't like chrome interface as well
17:31<samu>but i have no other choice, it's the only one that works on that system
17:31-!-Ristovski [~rafael@] has joined #openttd
17:36<alluke>and you cant keep multiple browsers on the computer?
17:38<V453000>you cant keep any secret
17:39<samu>why yes I could, but what for
17:39<V453000>._. nevermind
17:40<alluke>yeah i think the parents would wonder once again why is the browsing history deleted
17:40<@Rubidium>alluke: no, for some reason I can't have IE 5 and IE 10 on the same computer
17:40<alluke>i didnt mean that
17:41<alluke>more like ie and ff
17:41<V453000>if you use ie, you dont need anything else
17:41<V453000>just dont
17:41<V453000>also people using ie should be brought to justice
17:42<alluke>i think they should be shot
17:42<@Rubidium>then shoot me ;)
17:42<alluke>i would if i could
17:42<samu>i can't use ff nor ie on that 1 system
17:42<alluke>polishing my gun
17:42<V453000>rubidium runs IE under wine? :P
17:43<@Rubidium>V453000: hell no
17:43<V453000>I am not believing you ever use windows
17:43<V453000>not going to happen
17:43<samu>requires DX10 capable hardware
17:43<samu>video card is DX9
17:43<alluke>i use windows to ventilate my room
17:43<samu>chrome is the only one that works
17:43<@Rubidium>V453000: well... $job uses Windows almost exclusively
17:44<alluke>whats dx9
17:44<samu>something about windows driver model yada yada
17:44<samu>doesn't let ie run
17:44<samu>nor ff
17:45<@Rubidium>V453000: I refuse to use wine though
17:45<alluke>i have ff on my laptop that has some intel shitchip
17:45<@Rubidium>V453000: mostly since it rarely ever works
17:45<V453000>:D I tried to use photoshop with wine once
17:45<alluke>works perfect
17:45<V453000>wasnt a good idea
17:45<alluke>photoshop with wine?
17:45<alluke>why dont get it for your os?
17:46<V453000> /ignore add alluke
17:46<Prof_Frink>I've used IE under wine before.
17:46<V453000>presumably because I didnt have it installed at that time?
17:46<@Rubidium>alluke: because you might not want to pay microsoft for Windows 7 or Apple for OS X 10.7?
17:47<V453000>I have purchased windoze so that wouldnt fit his point either Rubi :)
17:48<alluke>sorry i dont speak dutch
17:48<V453000>MY EYES
17:48<V453000>I SAW DUTCH
17:48<alluke>is it a charge?
17:49<@Rubidium>nope, it's a verdict
17:50<@Rubidium>anyhow, I rather not use stuff I would need to pay for on my computer
17:51<SineTheCreator>i really wish it was possible to build diagonal bridges
17:51<alluke>did you get the photoshop dvd in an easter egg
17:51-!-Ristovski [~rafael@] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
17:52<@Rubidium>I never used photoshop to be honest; if I needed something like that I used GIMP
17:52<SineTheCreator>Rubidium: 10.8 is out BTW :D
17:52<@Rubidium>so much easier to install and keep updated on my computer than Adobe stuff
17:52<samu>i can't change "vehicle never expire" in multiplayer, but i can in single player, is that intended?
17:52<SineTheCreator>photoshop is terrible
17:53<SineTheCreator>samu: are you the server admin?
17:53<@Rubidium>samu: yes
17:53<samu>at least I'm Server
17:53<SineTheCreator>can you change it before starting the game in the main menu's advanced options?
17:53<V453000>SineTheCreator: if you used it for work, you would understand why Adobe products are good
17:54<V453000>I agree that buying holyfuck expensive software for home usage is pointless unless you really have it as a hobby
17:54<samu>rubidium says yes, I assume that's intended
17:55<alluke>well i have photoshop cs5 because im poor skank
17:55<alluke>something less expensive stuff too
17:56<SineTheCreator>V453000: i have used it for work. i use gimp for work too.
17:56-!-snorre_ [] has joined #openttd
17:56<SineTheCreator>i have also used illustrator and inkscape
17:57<V453000>then I cant imagine by what reason can you call Adobe software bad
17:57<SineTheCreator>it's bloated and the install/update process sucks?
17:57-!-snorre [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
17:57<alluke>adobe software aint bad
17:58<alluke>its just too expensive
17:58<SineTheCreator>it's also overcomplicated and for some reason is like 400 megs?
17:58<samu>adobe flash has one annoying issue - everytime it tells me to update, my internet connection is off
17:58<V453000>ok not even replying to that
17:58<SineTheCreator>good, i don't want to argue about it anymore
17:59<SineTheCreator>i use what works and does what i need easiest. gimp does that, end of story, etc.
17:59<samu>it's off, because it's mobile, off by nature at system start up
17:59<samu>that's exactly when adobe thinks it's a good time to install an update
17:59<SineTheCreator>yeah. photoshop and other CS apps do the same thing
17:59<SineTheCreator>at least they do for me
18:00<V453000>yes, and graphics designers use adobe stuff because it works better for them, I never said it has to work best for you if you cant handle adobe products by being "too complicated"
18:00<SineTheCreator>actually there is one adobe app i do like - lightroom
18:00<alluke>whats it
18:00<alluke>or what does it do
18:00<SineTheCreator>V453000: lol. whatever you say man.
18:00<SineTheCreator>alluke: it's adobe's mass RAW photo editor
18:01-!-Djohaal [] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
18:01<alluke>photo editor?
18:01-!-Djohaal [] has joined #openttd
18:01<SineTheCreator>over the last two years i've probably sent 30,000 photos through it. it's always worked pretty well.
18:01<V453000>I have yet to see one such person using other than adobe ... well corel is sometimes used too but that usually has other reasons
18:01<alluke>how does it differ from photoshop
18:02<SineTheCreator>V453000: adobe is the most-used in the graphic design industry because it's the best one.
18:02<SineTheCreator>but being the best doesn't necessarily make it good
18:02<V453000>the fuck? :D
18:02<V453000>how does that even make sense
18:02<SineTheCreator>i said being the best of something doesn't automatically mean you're good
18:02<V453000>the fuck
18:02<samu>this update also messes up with internet cache, i don't know what cache they mean, it seems like websites keep track of my visits
18:02<SineTheCreator>if we were comparing cars, we'd say that the best yugo that ever rolled off the line was still one of the worst cars ever
18:03<SineTheCreator>see how it works now?
18:03<samu>when that cache doesn't happen
18:03<samu>doesn't match...
18:03<V453000>that is about the same logic retard samu uses, everybody is bad, including the best
18:03<samu>then websites don't open
18:03<alluke>samu: i recommed you to back up all your important stuff and reinstall windows
18:03<alluke>looks like youve fucked everything up
18:03<SineTheCreator>V453000: i think there's a language barrier or something here, because it's a pretty widely-used saying
18:03<samu>lol why?
18:03<V453000>which is irrelevant SineTheCreator , you cannot say that the best car is terrible either :)
18:03<SineTheCreator>"being the best doesn't mean you're good" etc
18:04<alluke>continuous error messages about everything
18:04<SineTheCreator>V453000: uh, you can when it's the best yugo and you're comparing it to any other car on earth
18:04<SineTheCreator>you don't get the saying, it's fine. let's just move on.
18:04<V453000>why would you compare graphics software to anything else?
18:04<samu>i have to repeatedly refresh the page or clear all cached content
18:05<SineTheCreator>does he always make people want to shoot themselves? :D
18:05<V453000>if you are comparing photoshop to internet explorer, well, k
18:05<SineTheCreator>V453000: okay, let me put it to you like this
18:05<SineTheCreator>photoshop is the best graphics editing package there is, yes?
18:05<SineTheCreator>we agree on that?
18:05<SineTheCreator>but i think it could be a lot better than it is.
18:05<alluke>aint that ms paint?
18:05<V453000>alright, waht cant be better than it is
18:05<SineTheCreator>alluke: get foo :D
18:06<SineTheCreator>V453000: no, i mean a lot better
18:06<samu>i use paint because it's sufficient for me, at least for what I do
18:06<SineTheCreator>like, sony vegas pro vs. adobe premiere pro better
18:06<V453000>right so just because a thing can be a lot better, yet is the best, it is bad
18:06<V453000>makes perfect sense to me
18:06<samu>windows movie maker for example, SUCKS
18:06<alluke>adobe premiere is horrible
18:06<alluke>ive used it in school
18:06<samu>so i use something else, virtualdub
18:06<SineTheCreator>alluke: exactly
18:06<alluke>imovie is too
18:06<alluke>i use my old imovie hd and its the best video software i know
18:06<SineTheCreator>it's the worst video editing package in existence, yet it's marketed to pro video editors
18:07<SineTheCreator>which is why nobody buys it, but that is beside the point
18:07<alluke>imovie hd from 2006
18:07<samu>virtualdub has its share of problems too, because of "proprietary crap no one cares about", i just want something that works
18:07<SineTheCreator>V453000: and on photoshop and illustrator. i know artists that use them because they have to. because adobe is the industry standard. but they HATE it.
18:08<SineTheCreator>there is a reason for that -- it means adobe sucks.
18:08<alluke>thats 7 years old
18:08<alluke>and still the best video editor ever made
18:08<SineTheCreator>samu: virtualdub is barely a video editor :d
18:08<V453000>your logic is so retarded it hurts
18:08<V453000>people hate something because there isnt anything better
18:08<SineTheCreator>V453000: no, your failure to understand simple logic is what hurts
18:08<SineTheCreator>V453000: yes
18:08<samu>i use handbrake at the end of the chain
18:08<SineTheCreator>it's like protools
18:09<SineTheCreator>protools is a pretty crap music production platform. i know, i've been using it for years. i can count at least 5 other DAWs that are better
18:09<V453000>so why dont they go and make better software or give feedback to adobe so it would be better
18:09<SineTheCreator>but protools is the 'industry standard' so everyone uses it. because it's the frakking industry standard.
18:09<SineTheCreator>V453000: not my job.
18:09<SineTheCreator>and giving feedback to adobe is almost as useful as giving feedback to microsoft
18:09<SineTheCreator>it will get you absolutely nowhere
18:10<SineTheCreator>when was the last time you submitted a crash report and core dump to microsoft and they actually did something about it? seriously?
18:10<V453000>well then use better software :>
18:10<SineTheCreator>yeah, that's what happens with adobe. you get totally ignored.
18:10<V453000>I dont see why would anybody be forced to use industry standard
18:11<SineTheCreator>453000 | well then use better software :> <-- I do. instead of protools, i use reaper pro. instead of adobe premiere, i use vegas pro. instead of using photoshop and illustrator, i use gimp and inkscape.
18:11<samu>my end video is .mp4 extension
18:11<V453000>which is worse
18:11<SineTheCreator>V453000: when you're working in a production-oriented industry like music, film, photo, etc... sometimes you are forced to use the industry standard format.
18:11<samu>it is using he-aac for audio
18:11<SineTheCreator>it's just the way the industry works
18:12<SineTheCreator>that's why they call it industry standard ffs
18:12<SineTheCreator>jesus christ
18:12<V453000>not really
18:12<alluke>samu use lc-aac
18:12<alluke>better quality
18:12<V453000>you can always do your own thing, eventually with drawbacks
18:12<V453000>but you can
18:12<samu>and H.264, defined by handbrake
18:12<SineTheCreator>V453000: lol. not in music production you can't.
18:12<alluke>h.264 is the best
18:13<SineTheCreator>if you have to send a master track copy to a distribution house and they need the protools archive, you've got to send the f**king protools archive
18:13<SineTheCreator>do you get it now?
18:13<samu>H.264 (x.264)
18:13<samu>something from handbrake
18:13<SineTheCreator>you can't send them a WAV or a FLAC, they need the protools file.
18:13<V453000>who said you need to make money by sending anything to anybody
18:13<SineTheCreator>god damn this guy has no idea how the world works. i'm done with this discussion
18:13<SineTheCreator>come back to me when you have a clue what you're talking about
18:14<V453000>point taken
18:14<samu>HE-AAC v2 i think, let me re-check
18:15<SineTheCreator>samu: what was your issue?
18:15<alluke>why did apple change imovies perfect interface
18:15<SineTheCreator>x264 output wasn't working?
18:15<alluke>the new versions are total horse shit
18:15<SineTheCreator>alluke: try final cut X, i hear it does't suck now
18:15<alluke>too pro for me :P
18:15<samu>Nfsw 2012 06 25 15 51 19 516 Crop HEv2 Android High AAC Passthru.mp4
18:15<SineTheCreator>eh, final cut X is frickin easy
18:15<alluke>im happy with this 7 years old
18:15<SineTheCreator>if you think that is diffcult you should try vegas pro
18:16<samu>and some MKA in-between that disappears
18:16<SineTheCreator>or, god forbid, avid media composer
18:16<SineTheCreator>aka the most overcomplicated video production package ever made
18:16<alluke>cant be easier than this :D
18:16<SineTheCreator>but it's the industry standard so we all have to suck it up :/
18:17<SineTheCreator>alluke: actually yeah, it's about that easy.
18:17<SineTheCreator>drag your clips in and slide
18:17<SineTheCreator>you pull these little bars on the beginning and end of clips to add fades and such
18:17<alluke>similar to old imovie
18:18<SineTheCreator>yeah, i wouldn't doubt it
18:18<SineTheCreator>imovie used to be more pro than it is now
18:18<alluke>i guess apple changed it because imovie was too good
18:18<alluke>and they want people to buy final cut
18:18<SineTheCreator>that is exactly why
18:18<samu>for raw video capturing, i use MSI Afterburner, with Lagarith enconding
18:18<SineTheCreator>it's also the same reason windows live movie maker changed and got more simple.
18:18<alluke>i cba to waste gigs of hdd space for final cunt
18:19<SineTheCreator>microsoft was going to build their own pro editing package but they dropped it
18:19<alluke>imovie hd is only 42 mb
18:19<SineTheCreator>i guess it may come back for windows 8 though, who knows
18:19<SineTheCreator>alluke: gigs?
18:19-!-oskari892 [] has joined #openttd
18:19<samu>i can capture at 1920x1080 at about 30 fps
18:19-!-Alice3 [] has quit []
18:19<alluke>i can do thta too
18:19<SineTheCreator>alluke: i know. i'm saying just get a copy without the content packs
18:19<SineTheCreator>the app itself is only like 250 megs
18:20<alluke>but this machine will hear up to 70-80c if u capture fullscreen game
18:20<samu>"only" is too much for me lol
18:20<SineTheCreator>what are you guys trying to capture anyway?
18:20<alluke>my hot neighbours webcam
18:20<SineTheCreator>need for speed ..?
18:21<SineTheCreator>i haven't played one since shift, so...
18:21<alluke>i have carbon on this machine
18:21<samu>i have a few videos here
18:21<SineTheCreator>what are you using to capture?
18:21<alluke>and mw on the laptop which i got only for pure boredom when this machine was being repaired
18:21<samu>me? msi afterburner with a 3rd party enconder, lagarith
18:21<SineTheCreator>samu: try dxtory
18:21<SineTheCreator>it's the best game recorder
18:22<samu>I tried, it jerks, and it puts a gigantic DXTORY watermark
18:22<SineTheCreator>it can output directly to h264/mp3 or h264/aac in mp4 or mkv format
18:22<SineTheCreator>no i don't mean the trial version
18:22<samu>afterburner is slower, but no watermark
18:22<SineTheCreator>and the jerkiness is probably a setting dxtory
18:22<SineTheCreator>set it to capture at 30fps
18:23<SineTheCreator>then you should still be able to run the game at 60fps or whatever and it will just fill in
18:23<samu>afterburner isn't perfect either
18:23<samu>but for me it has the best compromise
18:23<SineTheCreator>i used to record DayZ footage at 720p30 while playing at 1080p60
18:23<SineTheCreator>and need for speed shift footage as well
18:24<samu>there's another that I try from time to time
18:24<SineTheCreator>bandicam is terrible
18:24-!-Wolf01 [] has quit [Quit: Once again the world is quick to bury me.]
18:25<samu>well, the fastest one is still dxtory, then bandicam, then afterburner
18:25<SineTheCreator>yep. dxtory is the best :D
18:25<SineTheCreator>it can even record multiple sound channels with keybinds
18:26-!-oskari89 [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
18:26<samu>i found this out by capturing a benchmark, dxtory outputs the most fps
18:26<samu>the most average
18:26<SineTheCreator>so you can, for example, record in-game sound AND a microphone or somesuch. it just records multiple audio tracks when you can then play with in editing.
18:26<SineTheCreator>it's so nice.
18:26<samu>ergh.. the highest
18:26<SineTheCreator>samu: also... you can just record to RAW video and get higher framerates with dxtory
18:26<SineTheCreator>then you can stitch it together in editing and output as h264
18:27<SineTheCreator>it uses a crapload more space though
18:27<samu>what I noticed different between these 3 and the different fps results was how much GPU usage
18:27<SineTheCreator>well, h264 can use GPU to encoded
18:27<SineTheCreator>so if you're using dxtory it should be able to take advantage of it
18:27<samu>the one that gets closer to 100% GPU usage, averages the most FPS
18:27<SineTheCreator>if you have an ati card it uses opencl, nvidia it uses cuda
18:28<samu>dxtory gets the most GPU usage
18:28<SineTheCreator>yeah, because the gpu is doing the encode work
18:28<SineTheCreator>i just told you why :D
18:28<samu>no, no opencl
18:28<samu>just capturing
18:29<samu>with cpu doing encoding to HDD
18:29<SineTheCreator>openCL is a video encode and decode language
18:29<SineTheCreator>nooo.... with dxtory and h264 your GPU is actually doing the encoding
18:29<SineTheCreator>unless you have a crappy intel gpu, which i doubt if you're recording at all
18:30<samu>no, it's not GPU limited, it's CPU
18:30<SineTheCreator>the cpu still has to handle the massive file dump operation from the video
18:30<samu>normal gaming pushes GPU up to 100% usage
18:30<samu>or 99%
18:30<SineTheCreator>of course it does
18:30<SineTheCreator>that's what your GPU is there for
18:30<SineTheCreator>bah, nevermind
18:30<samu>when capturing, DXtory makes GPU usage change to about 80-90%
18:31<samu>the other 10-20% are not being used
18:31<SineTheCreator>samu: no, they are. just not for the game.
18:31<SineTheCreator>that's my point. dxtory is using your GPU to encode the video
18:31<samu>so, i assume there's a bottleneck somewhere in how the program captures, CPU? Encoding? I/O?
18:31<SineTheCreator>the CPU still has to render it
18:31<SineTheCreator>as in, the huge file
18:31<SineTheCreator>no... that is normal operation
18:32<SineTheCreator>when you GPU is being partly used for rendering video, some apps will not report the utilization
18:32<SineTheCreator>i doubt afterburner would
18:32<samu>well, bandicam is 75-85% GPU usage
18:32<samu>and afterburner is the lowest
18:32<SineTheCreator>bandicam uses your GPU to render as well
18:33<SineTheCreator>afterburner may also, i dunno
18:33<samu>the smoother capturer is afterburner, it's the opposite
18:34<samu>the end result video looks smooth, and playing also is smooth while capturing
18:34<samu>brb, let me dig my screenshots
18:35<SineTheCreator>eh, i don't care :D just use whatever works best on your system
18:35<SineTheCreator>if you have an msi card it may work better
18:35<SineTheCreator>i just know that dxtory is the best for my hardware
18:35<SineTheCreator>i have an XFX HD5850
18:35<SineTheCreator>anyways, back to what i was doing before
18:35-!-Devroush [] has quit []
18:35-!-alluke [] has quit [Quit: Page closed]
18:36-!-alluke [] has joined #openttd
18:36<samu>well, at the end of the day, it depends on the game - too heavy or too light
18:36<samu>needs more fps or less fps
18:37<samu>aha, found it
18:38<samu>MSI Kombustor is a benchmark, that's what I used to test the 3 video capturing tools
18:39<samu>each one has its own score
18:39-!-valhallasw [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
18:40<samu>baseline (that means, no capturing, just playing the game): X968 (27 fps average)
18:40<samu>afterburner lagarith: X773 (19 fps)
18:41<samu>bandicam lagarith: X859 (22 fps)
18:41<samu>dxtory lagarith: X908 (25 fps)
18:42<samu>oops, for baseline, i actually mean just running the benchmark in this case
18:50<samu>these logged lowest fps don't reflect the jerkiness I experienced... :(
18:51<samu>there are dropped frames during encoding, most noticeable with bandicam
18:52<samu>let me upload
18:58<alluke>why the fuck do i find myself listening to aaron carter at 2 am
18:58<samu>bah imgur - security error -230
18:58<samu>what is that
19:02<samu>there you have it, skydrive > imgur
19:05<alluke>i understand nothing
19:05<samu>ask me
19:06<samu>msi kombustor is a gpu benchmark
19:06<alluke>is it 17:25 there where you are
19:07<alluke>old pic?
19:07-!-HellTiger [] has quit [Quit: KVIrc 4.2.0 Equilibrium]
19:08<samu>i benchmarked while capturing to see how much of a decrease I would get in the results
19:09-!-snorre [] has joined #openttd
19:09-!-snorre_ [] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out]
19:12<SineTheCreator>samu: by that data dxtory is the fastest one. which makes sense. dxtory uses the least system resources.
19:12<SineTheCreator>it's very lightweight as capture apps go
19:13<SineTheCreator>also, imgur > *
19:14<samu>i don't really know if it's easy to conclude that
19:14<samu>but yeah
19:14-!-Djohaal [] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
19:14-!-Djohaal [] has joined #openttd
19:15<samu>these results tell me how good I could play
19:15<samu>the end result however, the file that was created... is jerky
19:15<samu>that's something I can't easily prove to you unless I send u the videos, I no longer have them
19:17<samu>on a racing game you can notice it really well
19:18<samu>dxtory playback file was something like... accelerating, slowing, accelerating, slowing, acceleration, slowing
19:18<alluke>e-rotic - dont make me wet
19:19-!-oskari89 [] has joined #openttd
19:19<samu>bandicam playback file had many dropped frames at the first 30 seconds
19:19<samu>then went smoth thereafter
19:20<samu>afterburner, not as fast as the others, but had the smoothest file playback
19:22<samu>depending on the game, afterburner is good enough if the game is still playable at slower framerates
19:26-!-oskari892 [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
19:29<alluke>on days its sweltering hot
19:30<alluke>but at nights nice n cool
19:32-!-snorre_ [] has joined #openttd
19:33-!-snorre [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
19:36<samu>bandicam's own codecs are so bad... :(
19:39<samu>SineTheCreator: you're still there?
19:40-!-oskari89 [] has quit []
19:41-!-roboboy [] has joined #openttd
19:45<SineTheCreator>samu: sup?
19:45-!-snorre [] has joined #openttd
19:46-!-snorre_ [] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out]
20:04-!-roboboy [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
20:09-!-alluke [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
20:14-!-HerzogDeXtEr [] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
20:21-!-MysticalBurrito [] has joined #openttd
20:21<MysticalBurrito>Could someone help me?
20:25<samu>ewww lol, property maintenance costs with infrastructure costs
20:25<samu>inflation + high costs + 4% interest, this is insane
20:25<MysticalBurrito>I need help with the resolution for OpenTTD on my phone.
20:26<+glx>we don't support mobile version
20:26<MysticalBurrito>I've looked everywhere for help with this. :/
20:27<samu>2 commuters: -£16,460,340 /yr
20:28<MysticalBurrito>could I be linked to a site that might be able to help me?
20:29<samu>who decided on these costs for airports?
20:32<samu>omg... his aircraft just crashed
20:32<MysticalBurrito>can someone link me to a site that could help me with PPCTTD?
20:33<samu>I can't, sorry
20:33<samu>i don't know what that is
20:35<MysticalBurrito>PPCTTD Is the Pocket PC version of the original TTD
20:36<samu>eSoft interactive
20:36<samu>i think
20:37-!-glx [] has quit [Quit: Bye !]
20:40<samu>seems outdated.... 2009
20:44<samu>i seriously doubt they even exist
20:44<samu>but meh... try
20:53<MysticalBurrito>the OpenTTD page on esoft just lead me back to the forums
20:56-!-pugi [] has quit []
21:02-!-MysticalBurrito [] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
21:10-!-samu [] has quit [Quit: Page closed]
21:16-!-snorre_ [] has joined #openttd
21:17-!-snorre [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
21:23-!-snorre [] has joined #openttd
21:25-!-snorre_ [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
21:35-!-Djohaal [] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
21:43-!-snorre_ [] has joined #openttd
21:45-!-snorre [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
21:50-!-DDR [] has joined #openttd
21:51-!-snorre [] has joined #openttd
21:52-!-snorre_ [] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out]
22:17-!-perk11 [] has quit [Quit: Miranda IM! Smaller, Faster, Easier.]
22:20-!-snorre_ [] has joined #openttd
22:23-!-snorre [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
22:29-!-snorre [] has joined #openttd
22:32-!-snorre_ [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
22:48-!-roboboy [] has joined #openttd
23:14-!-Elukka [] has quit []
23:56-!-Nat_aS [] has joined #openttd
23:59-!-Dr_Tan [] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out]
---Logclosed Thu Jun 06 00:00:52 2013