| --- | Log | opened Thu Jun 06 00:00:53 2013 |
| 00:31 | <George> | http://bugs.openttd.org/task/5588 |
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| 08:02 | <@planetmaker> | Zuu doesn't like my story books :-( |
| 08:27 | <Zuu> | planetmaker: The user don't write the book |
| 08:28 | <Zuu> | I do like the icon where you see the height of the book, but don't know if it fits the TTD style. |
| 08:41 | <@planetmaker> | That's true, it seems to not exactly fit the others |
| 08:43 | <@planetmaker> | But the plain sheets are very similar imho to the news icon |
| 08:47 | <@planetmaker> | with the pen I thought more instead of writing yourself it's the story as its being written |
| 08:51 | <Zuu> | I see your point |
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| 09:59 | <Samu> | hi |
| 09:59 | <ntoskrnl> | hi |
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| 10:30 | <Samu> | oh nice, a new version of OtviAI v418 |
| 10:31 | <Samu> | and BorkAI |
| 10:31 | <Samu> | *must try* |
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| 11:52 | <@Belugas> | hello |
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| 12:51 | <Samu> | hi |
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| 12:57 | <Samu> | intel iris pro reviews are insane, rip AMD |
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| 13:01 | <Samu> | that's sad to see, wathcing those graphs, even puts nvidia into jeopardy |
| 13:03 | <Samu> | http://images.anandtech.com/graphs/graph6993/55285.png |
| 13:03 | <sla_ro|master> | :O |
| 13:03 | <sla_ro|master> | I got GT 640 |
| 13:04 | <Samu> | it's still a quad-core cpu |
| 13:04 | <Samu> | with HT |
| 13:04 | <sla_ro|master> | I like NVIDIA, beside the price |
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| 13:25 | <Samu> | I'm coming into a scoring scheme for the existing OpenTTD AIs |
| 13:26 | <Samu> | an average score for each AI, running 16 different settings |
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| 13:27 | <Samu> | and using excel this time, at least I can sort columns |
| 13:27 | <ksf> | so... split before you join, *all times and always*? |
| 13:27 | <Samu> | notepad would make me lost |
| 13:27 | <ksf> | I've got a counterexample here: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/84/Frankfurter_Kreuz.png |
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| 13:28 | <ksf> | (right lane traffic) |
| 13:29 | <Samu> | hi ksf, wrong channel or did i miss somethnig |
| 13:29 | <ksf> | nah, I just crashed in and defined the topic to be hub design. |
| 13:30 | <Samu> | hmm I missed something :( |
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| 13:32 | <ksf> | the usual problem with joining lines before you split is that that's prone to jamming. |
| 13:33 | <ksf> | the formula in frankfurt, for the lower horizontal lane from left to right is split, join, split, join, though. |
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| 13:38 | <Samu> | hias |
| 13:39 | <V453000> | if you are trying to justify your broken game logic with a real-life road junction, good luck |
| 13:40 | <V453000> | [yes split before join] |
| 13:41 | <ksf> | it works because the join->split path actually only ever has crossing vehicles if they want to reverse. |
| 13:42 | <ksf> | ...you could completely separate those lanes and end up with a pure split before join, at the expense of reversing. |
| 13:43 | <ksf> | the question, here, is "is the rarest of rare cases worth the bother". |
| 13:45 | <V453000> | why would you even let trains reverse in your junction |
| 13:45 | <@DorpsGek> | Commit by translators :: r25323 /trunk/src/lang (hungarian.txt traditional_chinese.txt) (2013-06-06 17:45:14 UTC) |
| 13:45 | <@DorpsGek> | -Update from WebTranslator v3.0: |
| 13:45 | <@DorpsGek> | traditional_chinese - 34 changes by siu238X |
| 13:45 | <@DorpsGek> | hungarian - 5 changes by Brumi |
| 13:45 | <Pinkbeast> | Er, it sounds more like "are real-world motorway junctions a good guide to designing OTTD railway junctions" (to which the answer is "no") |
| 13:45 | <V453000> | if they need to reverse there is something seriously wrong on your network |
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| 13:46 | <Pinkbeast> | Or, and I know what you're going to say, one has chased off after a depot oblivious to where that will take it next |
| 13:46 | <ksf> | accidents can happen, especially when changing stuff. |
| 13:46 | <Pinkbeast> | If you want to let trains reverse that can be done without futzing with complex junctions. |
| 13:49 | <ksf> | you mean by futzing with equally complex reverse points? |
| 13:50 | <ksf> | (that never get any kind of traffic) |
| 13:50 | <Pinkbeast> | No; reversing can be done very simply if it is only to be used when mistakes happen, hence capacity not much of an issue. |
| 13:51 | <ksf> | yes. and because capacity is not an issue, it can be done safely in a hub. |
| 13:51 | <ksf> | ...even with join before split *for this case only*, as it's not going to jam anything. |
| 13:52 | <Pinkbeast> | The junction you posted isn't join before split for this case only. (It's traffic crossing traffic for this case only). |
| 13:54 | <ksf> | ...which implies join before split. |
| 13:56 | <@DorpsGek> | Commit by rubidium :: r25324 /trunk/bin/baseset (8 files) (2013-06-06 17:56:02 UTC) |
| 13:56 | <@DorpsGek> | -Update: the baseset translations |
| 13:56 | <Pinkbeast> | It's also join before split for plenty of other cases. |
| 13:56 | <ksf> | the vertical paths all support complete lane separation. |
| 13:56 | <Pinkbeast> | X implies Y does not imply Y implies X; join before split does not imply traffic crossing traffic - trivially so when the mainline is one line each way |
| 13:58 | <ksf> | ...note that you're not supposed to split off from the mainline and then later re-join the same one. |
| 13:58 | <Pinkbeast> | On the face of it that junction looks like a classic example of what's wrong with join before split; extra capacity added in the junction to compensate. Trivial in this case; not so much in OTTD-land where a lane has quite a significant width. |
| 13:59 | <ksf> | that's 4m per lane on the autobahn |
| 14:00 | <Pinkbeast> | Er yes, and the junction is perhaps 800m across. An OTTD junction 200 tiles across might be felt to be unsatisfactory. |
| 14:01 | <ksf> | well, it's only got three lanes. |
| 14:01 | <Pinkbeast> | I have no idea what that's meant to convey. |
| 14:02 | <Pinkbeast> | An OTTD lane is wider in relative terms than a real one. |
| 14:02 | <ksf> | trains are generally relatively big in OTTD. |
| 14:02 | <ksf> | ...and distances short. |
| 14:03 | <ksf> | from the POV of the trains, at least. |
| 14:03 | <Samu> | nerf trains |
| 14:03 | <Pinkbeast> | ksf: I am well aware of these things, yes - so what? |
| 14:03 | <ksf> | good question. |
| 14:04 | <Pinkbeast> | The point is that on that thing, adding another pair of lanes parallel to the "mainline", or two, has essentially zero effect on junction size. |
| 14:04 | <Pinkbeast> | Do that in the middle of an OTTD junction and it adds a significant amount to junction size. |
| 14:05 | <ksf> | you have to bulid those lanes one way or the other. |
| 14:06 | <Samu> | question, when starting a new company, could the color chosen be more random than it is? |
| 14:06 | <Pinkbeast> | No, you don't! The whole point is that join before split demands extra capacity in the junction. |
| 14:06 | <Samu> | it's not random enough :p |
| 14:07 | <ksf> | if the intersection would join the cars coming from the lower left, driving upwards, early, then it'd have to have a separate lane for them. at the exact same place, just separate. |
| 14:07 | <ksf> | the intersection is, to 99%, split before join when you make those dotted lines solid. |
| 14:08 | <ksf> | ...the only thing where things, yes, cross, are the reversing cases. |
| 14:08 | <Pinkbeast> | I think I am now sated with the thick field of incomprehension. Bye. |
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| 14:21 | <Samu> | i have another little suggestion: when the game is paused, could the ***PAUSED*** text located at the news tooltip blink? |
| 14:21 | <Eddi|zuHause> | that would be terrible |
| 14:22 | <Samu> | :( |
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| 14:23 | <Samu> | sometimes my parents call for help with the game, only to find out the train wasn't starting because the game was paused |
| 14:23 | <Samu> | spending half an hour investigating why it wouldn't start, turns out it's paused, :( |
| 14:24 | <Samu> | me included |
| 14:24 | <blathijs> | Eddi|zuHause: Why would that be terrible? |
| 14:25 | <Eddi|zuHause> | i hate blinking stuff that distracts me from what i'm actually doing |
| 14:27 | <blathijs> | Oh, I misread the request |
| 14:28 | <blathijs> | I thought it was "Put ***PAUSED*** in news area", but it's already there |
| 14:28 | <blathijs> | Blinking is probably not so cool, then :-) |
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| 14:30 | <Samu> | if not blinking, then something visually obvious to catch attention |
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| 14:32 | <alluke> | openttdcoop welcome server is the first good openttdcoop serverive found |
| 14:32 | <Eddi|zuHause> | every time you make something idiot-proof, someone invents a better idiot |
| 14:32 | <alluke> | only the grfs suck |
| 14:33 | <Samu> | im not hosting any game today alluke |
| 14:33 | <Samu> | i'm testing AIs |
| 14:33 | <alluke> | huh? |
| 14:33 | <alluke> | i didnt even ask you to do so |
| 14:34 | <Samu> | ok |
| 14:34 | <V453000> | right lets ask why do the newgrfs suck alluke :) |
| 14:35 | <alluke> | well not all |
| 14:35 | <alluke> | but id swap some |
| 14:36 | <V453000> | not to mention that they change there with every game, so your statement is quite fragile |
| 14:36 | <frosch123> | "SetSet" <- awesome function name :) |
| 14:36 | <alluke> | like dutch station set to dutch addition set |
| 14:38 | <V453000> | sometimes they are there yes |
| 14:38 | <V453000> | I dont think a station set is terribly vital to a newGRF setup though |
| 14:40 | <alluke> | its just eyecandy |
| 14:42 | <V453000> | exactly |
| 14:43 | <V453000> | therefore I am still waiting for a reason why the newGRF setup sucks :) |
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| 14:44 | <alluke> | it doesnt really suck |
| 14:45 | <alluke> | but id add more trainsets |
| 14:45 | <alluke> | variety is fun |
| 14:45 | <V453000> | I dont think the current train set there has anything missing |
| 14:46 | <V453000> | multiple train sets are an option with bad train sets which have holes |
| 14:46 | <V453000> | like ukrs2, nars2, tropic refurbishment set, somewhat japanese train set |
| 14:46 | <alluke> | i didnt mean mixed sets |
| 14:47 | <alluke> | but you could have one complete train from db set and another one from fts |
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| 14:47 | <V453000> | what? |
| 14:48 | <alluke> | forget |
| 14:49 | <V453000> | no, wtf did you mean by that |
| 14:49 | <V453000> | one complete train from 2 sets |
| 14:49 | <V453000> | without mixing two sets in one game |
| 14:49 | <alluke> | no |
| 14:49 | <alluke> | the exact opposite |
| 14:50 | <alluke> | complete train from one set |
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| 14:50 | <V453000> | what is a complete train? |
| 14:50 | <alluke> | loco and coaches from same set |
| 14:50 | <frosch123> | V453000: wheels and an engine? |
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| 14:51 | <V453000> | right, every train set has that |
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| 14:51 | <V453000> | so why do you suggest to add more train sets |
| 14:51 | <alluke> | ppås |
| 14:51 | <alluke> | oops |
| 14:51 | <alluke> | more to choose |
| 14:52 | <V453000> | one of them is usually better to choose |
| 14:52 | <V453000> | so not really |
| 14:53 | <V453000> | and/or they have different speeds etc, so you in the end use only one of them anyway |
| 14:53 | <alluke> | some sets have better passenger stuff and some have better freight stuff |
| 14:53 | <V453000> | which part is NUTS missing |
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| 14:54 | <alluke> | i dont know |
| 14:54 | <alluke> | im talking about the current welcome server game |
| 14:54 | <alluke> | i never use nuts anyway |
| 14:55 | <V453000> | and in the current welcome server game is nuts afaik |
| 14:55 | <alluke> | nope |
| 14:55 | <alluke> | theres temperate game with polish set |
| 14:55 | <V453000> | oh, new game |
| 14:55 | <V453000> | oh fucking christ |
| 14:55 | <alluke> | the previous toyland was rubbish |
| 14:55 | <alluke> | purple company is mine :P |
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| 15:00 | -!- | zooks [~zooks@vhe-540241.sshn.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] |
| 15:02 | <Samu> | the best AI for today's testing is currently: WrightAI |
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| 15:03 | <Samu> | PathZilla vs WrightAI vs Rythorn Airline AI - each one soloing |
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| 15:23 | <Samu> | i'm bored of life, listening to this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a4SiuPvd4Mw |
| 15:25 | <V453000> | good that will kill you soon |
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| 15:50 | <Samu> | hmm :9 |
| 15:59 | <frosch123> | who keeps emptying my coffee mug? |
| 16:00 | <@Rubidium> | frosch123: it's not me |
| 16:09 | * | Alberth is drinking tea currently |
| 16:10 | <Eddi|zuHause> | must be snow white |
| 16:10 | <Eddi|zuHause> | "wer hat aus meinem Becherchen getrunken"? |
| 16:11 | <@Rubidium> | oh... *that* snow white |
| 16:11 | <V453000> | methanol? |
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| 16:22 | <Samu> | here's something I did with trains, i was very bored that day |
| 16:22 | <Samu> | https://skydrive.live.com/?cid=23b29f3de45f6f1f#cid=23B29F3DE45F6F1F&id=23B29F3DE45F6F1F%21473 |
| 16:23 | <Samu> | https://rupavq.dm1.livefilestore.com/y2pqVucGiVHyACa2t7ymf43H6P388flewPDWBPH11zIqN6_fqm0EO61XCLYPaykvpL-u3d5pwk_A2RNYtbJ93HbdLoegTnNCIff2rvjIhUpdF4/Unnamed%2C%202068-11-22.png?psid=1 |
| 16:23 | <Samu> | sorry, 2nd link |
| 16:23 | <Eddi|zuHause> | i should just ban all microsoft sites, they never load |
| 16:24 | <alluke> | whats that? |
| 16:24 | <alluke> | huge mess |
| 16:24 | <Samu> | it works, until I found out I could only put 15 trains there |
| 16:25 | <Samu> | decided to investigate and came up with all those signs |
| 16:25 | <Samu> | :( |
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| 16:25 | <perk11> | why do you use two-way tracks? |
| 16:26 | <perk11> | 3 tracks one way and 3 tracks other way would work with any amount of trains |
| 16:26 | <perk11> | untill all th tracks are full |
| 16:27 | <@Rubidium> | http://rbijker.net/openttd/more_efficient.png (the three steel trains) |
| 16:27 | <@Rubidium> | you get pretty creative when there are AIs around making messy "obstacles" |
| 16:30 | <+glx> | too much invisible stuff |
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| 16:30 | <frosch123> | i assume the steel trains are from the ai :) |
| 16:31 | <@Rubidium> | nope, they're mine |
| 16:31 | <alluke> | lol do you call that a steel train |
| 16:31 | <V453000> | XD |
| 16:31 | <alluke> | this is one |
| 16:31 | <alluke> | https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/1004368/stalin.png |
| 16:32 | <alluke> | carries 638 tons |
| 16:32 | <@Rubidium> | alluke: it carries 404 at most |
| 16:32 | <alluke> | nope |
| 16:32 | <V453000> | more or less |
| 16:32 | <perk11> | :D |
| 16:32 | <alluke> | wow |
| 16:32 | <alluke> | 404 indeed |
| 16:33 | <alluke> | looks like its still syncing |
| 16:33 | <@Rubidium> | longer trains don't work, since the lower station is at maximum length |
| 16:33 | <alluke> | either db or my inter net is fucked up |
| 16:34 | <@Rubidium> | and the three trains are timed in such a manner that they do not interfere with eachother, but that needs the third track |
| 16:34 | <alluke> | that train is 7 tiles |
| 16:35 | <frosch123> | hmm, the stations signs should have given me a hint earlier :s |
| 16:35 | <alluke> | now |
| 16:35 | <alluke> | the link works |
| 16:35 | <alluke> | take a look |
| 16:36 | <V453000> | wow you managed to construct a train with higher capacity |
| 16:36 | <perk11> | alluke: and why is it called "Stalin"? |
| 16:36 | <V453000> | teach us |
| 16:36 | <frosch123> | lol what? |
| 16:36 | <alluke> | because it means steel |
| 16:36 | <frosch123> | i expected a rl photo... |
| 16:36 | <perk11> | it means Stalin |
| 16:36 | <alluke> | stalin = steel |
| 16:36 | <alluke> | in russian |
| 16:36 | <perk11> | and there was a train called Iosif Stalin |
| 16:37 | <frosch123> | is the joke that the train is very old, so it is scrap metal by itself? |
| 16:38 | <frosch123> | yeah, old trains carrying steel can almost achieve 100% payload |
| 16:38 | <alluke> | and dont require unloading |
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| 16:38 | <frosch123> | you can drive the whole train directly into the furnace |
| 16:39 | <frosch123> | maybe some wagons could also be loaded with coal |
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| 16:39 | <alluke> | super efficient |
| 16:39 | <alluke> | the driver just needs to jump out |
| 16:40 | <perk11> | alluke: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_locomotive_class_IS this trains was called after Stalin, and it doesn't mean steel in Russian |
| 16:41 | <perk11> | so when I saw the link I thought you have it in openttd :) |
| 16:41 | <alluke> | right |
| 16:41 | <alluke> | google translate says that stal means steel |
| 16:42 | <alluke> | i guess stalin means made of steel |
| 16:42 | <perk11> | no it doesn't mean anything, except the name |
| 16:42 | <perk11> | Google Translate is pretty bad with russian translation |
| 16:43 | <perk11> | the word for steel is stal :) |
| 16:43 | <alluke> | yes |
| 16:48 | <frosch123> | night |
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| 17:45 | <alluke> | why the fuck is itunes 390 mb????? |
| 17:45 | <alluke> | its just a music player |
| 17:46 | <+glx> | no it's a store too |
| 17:46 | <alluke> | ok its not 390 mb xD |
| 17:46 | <alluke> | that included security update |
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| 18:04 | <Samu> | buff amd or they go rip |
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| 18:14 | <Eddi|zuHause> | who the what now? |
| 18:16 | <V453000> | yes |
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| 21:49 | <michael_> | Hello? |
| 21:50 | <michael_> | I can't seem to buy train engines in OpenTTD, however I can buy train carrages and I don't know why. |
| 21:50 | <Eddi|zuHause> | what year are you in? |
| 21:51 | <michael_> | uh, 10,010 XD |
| 21:52 | <Eddi|zuHause> | did you try changing railtypes? click and hold the rail icon in the main toolbar |
| 21:53 | <michael_> | It's set for railroad |
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| 21:53 | <Eddi|zuHause> | yes, but there are apparently no conventional rail vehilces left, so try maglev instead |
| 21:54 | <michael_> | Meaning I have to completely rebuild my railroad? |
| 21:54 | <michael_> | Crap |
| 21:55 | <michael_> | is there an easy way to replace rails? |
| 21:55 | <Eddi|zuHause> | you can use the convert tool |
| 21:55 | <Eddi|zuHause> | it's on the right of the toolbar |
| 21:56 | <Eddi|zuHause> | just drag and drop this over your rails |
| 21:56 | <Eddi|zuHause> | and it will convert everything to the new railtype |
| 21:56 | <Eddi|zuHause> | (unless it has a train on it that can't drive on the new railtype) |
| 21:58 | <michael_> | okay, thanks |
| 22:01 | <michael_> | can Maize be carried in a grain hopper? |
| 22:02 | <michael_> | nvm |
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| --- | Log | closed Fri Jun 07 00:00:54 2013 |
