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#openttd IRC Logs for 2013-06-09

---Logopened Sun Jun 09 00:00:56 2013
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02:11<@planetmaker>moin
02:31<@Terkhen>good morning
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05:25<@DorpsGek>Commit by rubidium :: r25338 /trunk/src (3 files) (2013-06-09 09:25:22 UTC)
05:25<@DorpsGek>-Fix: missing eol-style and keywords svn properties
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05:33<@DorpsGek>TrueBrain: Commit by rubidium :: r25339 /branches/1.3 (9 files in 4 dirs) (2013-06-09 09:33:06 UTC)
05:33<@DorpsGek>TrueBrain: [1.3] -Backport from trunk:
05:33<@DorpsGek>TrueBrain: - Fix: Do not focus the editbox in the NewGRF window, if there is no editbox visible (r25307)
05:33<@DorpsGek>TrueBrain: - Fix: Game Script APIs that execute a DoCommand were returning the same result as in TestMode during world generation [FS#5561] (r25305)
05:33<@DorpsGek>TrueBrain: - Fix: Build railway fences next to objects, even if they are owned by the same company [FS#5565] (r25302)
05:33<@DorpsGek>TrueBrain: (...)
05:34<NGC3982>Morning.
05:34<@planetmaker>what happened to dorpsgek's annoncements?
05:35<@Rubidium>planetmaker: nothing?
05:36<@planetmaker>your commit prefixed as if Tb queried it instead of announcing it like your last?
05:36<@Rubidium>it's quite common that the sysadmin is notified of backports
05:36<Zuu>Hmm passing spectator company id as string argument to {COMPANY} give an empty result.
05:36<@Rubidium>depends on the number of lines in the commit message
05:36<Zuu>Eg. the actual string that contain {COMPANY} needs to come in two variants.
05:37<Zuu>.. which requires manual widget painting which in turn causes a large block of code to turn into a switch block. :-)
05:38<@DorpsGek>TrueBrain: Commit by rubidium :: r25340 /branches/1.3 (14 files in 5 dirs) (2013-06-09 09:38:21 UTC)
05:38<@DorpsGek>TrueBrain: [1.3] -Backport from trunk:
05:38<@DorpsGek>TrueBrain: - Fix: Loading only 8 bits into a 16 bit variable could cause endianness problems (r25337)
05:38<@DorpsGek>TrueBrain: - Fix: Check for zero width space in translations and fail upon finding them [FS#5589] (r25326)
05:38<@DorpsGek>TrueBrain: - Fix: [SDL] Keyboard input stopped working after fullscreen toggle [FS#5580] (r25318)
05:38<@DorpsGek>TrueBrain: (...)
05:38<NGC3982>The awkward moment when I left the house, forgetting the min_active_clients at '0'.
05:39<Zuu>Easy solution: deny spectators to view the goal and story book window with only global content.
05:40<NGC3982>I can't access rcon from where I am :-(
05:40<Zuu>Hmm, oh. actually the caption string could be a {STRING}, that saves me from doing manual painting.
05:41<NGC3982>When I get home, it will all be ruined.
05:41<NGC3982>Dag nabbit.
05:41<Zuu>You could join the game and create a save.
05:41<@planetmaker>if you can join, you can also access rcon usually
05:42<NGC3982>I cannot join the game either. My version of Android ooh
05:42<NGC3982>-ooh.
05:42<NGC3982>+ does not support the app.
05:42<@DorpsGek>Commit by rubidium :: r25341 /branches/1.3 (43 files in 3 dirs) (2013-06-09 09:42:50 UTC)
05:42<@DorpsGek>[1.3] -Backport from trunk: language updates
05:48<Zuu>Maybe there is an ssh client for Android?
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05:58<Zuu>"Global Story Book" or "Spectator Story Book"? (and "Global Goals" vs "Spectator Goals")
05:58<@Alberth>o/
05:58<Zuu>Hello Alberth
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05:59<@Alberth>isn't the only goal of a spectator to watch a game? :)
06:00<Zuu>The other solution is to not have a spectator version of those windows. (eg. as with station list)
06:00<@planetmaker>and to learn about the goals if he should found or join a company, Alberth :-)
06:01<@Alberth>:)
06:01<Zuu>If you are the first company, you can not view goals/story if we ban it from the specatotor. In the other cases, the spectator could view the goals/story of any company.
06:01*Alberth offers cheating services, I can tell you the goal of any company, for only 1 euro!
06:02<@planetmaker>I think it's common practise to first join as spectator, look what's going on, and then found a company
06:02<Zuu>indeed
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06:02<@planetmaker>thus spectators having access to goals is desirable imho
06:02<Zuu>and if you don't like the server, you quit without spaming a company.
06:03<@Alberth>I can quit, and found another company until I like the goal? :)
06:03<Zuu>Yes, and the question is if there should be a spectator version of the goal window which do not contain any company specific goals or not.
06:03<Zuu>(and the same for story)
06:03<@planetmaker>Alberth, yes... unless the admins disagree ;-)
06:03<Zuu>I am about to implement it as we discuss :-)
06:03<@Alberth>perhaps just a global explanation of what kind of goals the server provides?
06:04<Zuu>Currently we don't have spectator-only goals or story pages. But you could for example in the story book have an initial page that is global and is an introduction.
06:05<Zuu>Then further pages could be company specific and driven by the progress you make in the game.
06:06<@Alberth>sounds like a good idea to me
06:06<@planetmaker>I think players (and spectators) should be able to inspect company-specific goals via their company view (where also "view HQ" is accessible)
06:07<Zuu>planetmaker: With patch 60 they can access company specific goals/story via the main toolbar menus.
06:07<@planetmaker>ah, k
06:08<Zuu>The only thing I was wondering about was if a spectator can open those windows when there is no company at all as spectator and then show a global/spectator view.
06:09<@planetmaker>you mean what to do, if there's no company? Well... then there's no company specific goals available yet.
06:09<@planetmaker>Maybe a general hint on their type would be nice... but... hm
06:10<Zuu>I cannot figure out any other in-game content that allows this. The other menus that offer per-company views don't show anything if you click on them when there is no company at all. (because it is quite useless to view the stations of a spectator)
06:10<@planetmaker>yeah
06:11<@planetmaker>you might as well keep that for goals, too
06:11<@Alberth>lol, the SE has 'pause' and 'fast-forward' ??
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06:11<Zuu>Yes, could be used to control tree growth.
06:12<Zuu>planetmaker: Are you aware that doing that removes the now available featrue of being able to view the global goals when there are no companies in the game.
06:13<@planetmaker>no, I'm not aware :-)
06:13<@planetmaker>I thought it only would affect the company-specific ones
06:13<Zuu>I think I will just let spectators view global stuff and then be done with this. :-)
06:13<@planetmaker>:-)
06:14<@planetmaker>Zuu, or add one string like "There are also company-specific goals"
06:14<@planetmaker>if applicable, that is
06:15<Zuu>I could exchange the "- None -" string in the list of company specific goals with something like that. And word it as it could possible exist company specific goals.
06:17<@planetmaker>yeah
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06:34<Zuu>http://devs.openttd.org/~zuu/goal-gui/mp.png <--- company and spectator windows
06:34<Zuu>(the GS provide no company goals)
06:36<@Alberth>s@n/a@Not available@ ?
06:36<@Alberth>you have plenty of space for writing it in full
06:37<Zuu>I was thinking of not applicable rather than not available. But both works.
06:38<@Alberth>Unless we have a generic n/a string :)
06:38<Zuu>with a leading "- " and an ending " -" ?
06:39<Zuu>I doubt that :-)
06:42<@Alberth>why is it called "spectator goals" ?
06:42<@Alberth>isn't it "global goals" or so?
06:43<Zuu>It could also be "global goals". I asked about that earlier but got no response. :-)
06:43<Zuu>And then perhaps also "Global Story Book"
06:44<@Alberth>ie the goals are not intended to be solved by spectators probably :)
06:44<Zuu>Nope :-)
06:45<@Alberth>why is it "story book", wouldn't just "book" be enough?
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06:47<@Alberth>from a MP point of view, it would be the "server book", but that is not a good name in general, probably
06:48<Zuu>Do you mean just the caption or all concepts in the patches?
06:49<@Alberth>caption
06:50<Zuu>I guess it could be just "{COMPANY} Book". It was previously "Story Book" and then I added {COMPANY}.
06:50<@Alberth>perhaps "world story" or "world developments"?
06:52<@Alberth>I am somewhat thinking in the line of "recent world events"
06:54<@Alberth>hmm, tricky problem
06:54<Zuu>As I see it its a book that tells the game story. Useful for situations when the blue popup windows with centered text is not enough. Also it allows the player to go back and read old pages.
06:54<Zuu>But then, I guess some servers may use it to put their server rules in there.
06:56<Zuu>And someone may create one page named after each town in order to provide information about the town that they cannot fit the town window. (which is really not intended use, just something that will happen unless the town window get additional capabilities to show unlimited amount of data)
06:57<Zuu>It could be "game book" but some may think of it as a manual then.
06:58<Zuu>Though, that is sort of what it is, but with texts related to that specific game rather than the generic manual for the base game.
07:01<@Alberth>I like "game book", but I can see the confusion. What about "game story" ?
07:01<@Alberth>"...go back and read old pages" <-- add button for jumping to the current page?
07:02<Zuu>You mean the last page?
07:02<Zuu>There is a page selector in the middle.
07:03<Zuu>But it could have first/last buttons too if you want that. Though I would rather add that after finalizing the curernt queue if it is just an addition.
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07:06<@Alberth>not sure about 'first', perhaps 'top' or 'start' would be better.
07:06<@Alberth>if you don't like it, it's fine too, I am just throwing suggestions that come to mind
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07:09<Zuu>I just felt that you maybe had not 100% knowledge about how the window works and what it already provides.
07:09<@Alberth>you are right in that feeling :)
07:10<Zuu>If someone creates 1000 pages, then the drop-down will be quite tall and then a begin/end button may be needed or even a search thingy. However that is aditional functionality that are not needed for a basic story book.
07:11<@Alberth>that someone should not write a 1000 pages :p
07:11<@Alberth>people are not going to read that much for a game
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07:14<Zuu>Indeed, so I think it is better to leave the interface simple and hopefully that is good enough.
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08:19<@DorpsGek>Commit by zuu :: r25342 /trunk (24 files in 9 dirs) (2013-06-09 12:19:09 UTC)
08:19<@DorpsGek>-Add: StoryPage data structures and GS API
08:21<@DorpsGek>Commit by zuu :: r25343 /trunk/src (gfx.cpp gfx_func.h) (2013-06-09 12:21:44 UTC)
08:21<@DorpsGek>-Add: method to count the number of lines required to draw a string with line warping
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08:48<@DorpsGek>Commit by zuu :: r25344 /trunk (22 files in 11 dirs) (2013-06-09 12:48:27 UTC)
08:48<@DorpsGek>-Feature: GUI for viewing story pages
08:48<@DorpsGek>Commit by fonsinchen :: r25345 /trunk/src (station_base.h station_cmd.cpp) (2013-06-09 12:48:42 UTC)
08:48<@DorpsGek>-Add: implementation of SharesMap and FlowStatMap
08:49<@DorpsGek>Commit by fonsinchen :: r25346 /trunk/src (3 files) (2013-06-09 12:49:47 UTC)
08:49<@DorpsGek>-Codechange: Glue between stations and flow stats
08:50<@DorpsGek>Commit by fonsinchen :: r25347 /trunk/src/core (math_func.cpp math_func.hpp) (2013-06-09 12:50:33 UTC)
08:50<@DorpsGek>-Add: function for deterministic approximate division
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08:52<@DorpsGek>Commit by fonsinchen :: r25348 /trunk (6 files in 3 dirs) (2013-06-09 12:52:11 UTC)
08:52<@DorpsGek>-Add: multimap implementation with guaranteed order between equal keys
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08:52<@DorpsGek>Commit by fonsinchen :: r25349 trunk/docs/linkgraph.txt (2013-06-09 12:52:50 UTC)
08:52<@DorpsGek>-Add: explanation of the link graph's inner workings
08:53<@DorpsGek>Commit by fonsinchen :: r25350 trunk/src/linkgraph/linkgraph_type.h (2013-06-09 12:53:34 UTC)
08:53<@DorpsGek>-Add: basic definitions for link graph
08:56<@DorpsGek>Commit by fonsinchen :: r25351 /trunk/src (4 files in 3 dirs) (2013-06-09 12:56:35 UTC)
08:56<@DorpsGek>-Add: settings for link graph
08:57<@DorpsGek>Commit by zuu :: r25352 /trunk/src (8 files in 3 dirs) (2013-06-09 12:57:22 UTC)
08:57<@DorpsGek>-Feature: GameScript API for selecting a story page to view
08:57<@DorpsGek>Commit by fonsinchen :: r25353 /trunk (7 files in 3 dirs) (2013-06-09 12:57:41 UTC)
08:57<@DorpsGek>-Add: link graph job implementation
08:58<@DorpsGek>Commit by fonsinchen :: r25354 /trunk (13 files in 4 dirs) (2013-06-09 12:58:37 UTC)
08:58<@DorpsGek>-Add: link graph schedule and typedefs for LinkGraph and related classes
08:59<@DorpsGek>Commit by fonsinchen :: r25355 /trunk (9 files in 3 dirs) (2013-06-09 12:59:51 UTC)
09:00<@DorpsGek>-Add: demand handler for link graph
09:00<@DorpsGek>Commit by fonsinchen :: r25356 /trunk (9 files in 3 dirs) (2013-06-09 13:00:41 UTC)
09:00<@DorpsGek>-Add: Multi-Commodity-Flow solver for link graph
09:01<@DorpsGek>Commit by fonsinchen :: r25357 /trunk (9 files in 3 dirs) (2013-06-09 13:01:23 UTC)
09:01<@DorpsGek>-Add: flow mapper for link graph
09:02<@DorpsGek>Commit by fonsinchen :: r25358 /trunk/src (4 files in 2 dirs) (2013-06-09 13:02:05 UTC)
09:02<@DorpsGek>-Codechange: save and load link graph jobs and the schedule
09:02<@DorpsGek>Commit by fonsinchen :: r25359 /trunk/src (station.cpp station_cmd.cpp) (2013-06-09 13:02:40 UTC)
09:02<@DorpsGek>-Codechange: schedule jobs when tracking capacities of links
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09:03<@DorpsGek>Commit by fonsinchen :: r25360 trunk/src/saveload/station_sl.cpp (2013-06-09 13:03:11 UTC)
09:03<@DorpsGek>-Codechange: save and load flow stats
09:03<@DorpsGek>Commit by fonsinchen :: r25361 /trunk/src (16 files in 2 dirs) (2013-06-09 13:03:48 UTC)
09:03<@DorpsGek>-Feature: distribute cargo according to plan given by linkgraph
09:04<@DorpsGek>Commit by fonsinchen :: r25362 /trunk/src (5 files in 2 dirs) (2013-06-09 13:04:32 UTC)
09:04<@DorpsGek>-Feature: consider cargo waiting at other stations for rating at the origin station
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09:06<@DorpsGek>Commit by fonsinchen :: r25363 trunk/src/saveload/saveload.cpp (2013-06-09 13:06:03 UTC)
09:06<@DorpsGek>-Codechange: bump the savegame version for cargodist
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09:08<@DorpsGek>Commit by fonsinchen :: r25364 /trunk/src/linkgraph (linkgraph_gui.cpp linkgraph_gui.h) (2013-06-09 13:07:53 UTC)
09:08<@DorpsGek>-Add: support for flow stats to linkgraph overlay
09:08<@DorpsGek>Commit by fonsinchen :: r25365 /trunk/src (6 files in 4 dirs) (2013-06-09 13:08:52 UTC)
09:08<@DorpsGek>-Feature: show cargo by next hops and final destinations in the station GUI
09:10<@DorpsGek>Commit by fonsinchen :: r25366 trunk/src/lang/german.txt (2013-06-09 13:10:07 UTC)
09:10<@DorpsGek>-Add: german translation for cargodist
09:10<@DorpsGek>Commit by fonsinchen :: r25367 trunk/src/lang/russian.txt (2013-06-09 13:10:36 UTC)
09:10<@DorpsGek>-Add: russian translation for cargodist
09:11<@DorpsGek>Commit by fonsinchen :: r25368 trunk/src/lang/french.txt (2013-06-09 13:11:08 UTC)
09:11<@DorpsGek>-Add: french translation for cargodist
09:13<@DorpsGek>Commit by zuu :: r25369 /trunk/src (5 files in 2 dirs) (2013-06-09 13:13:47 UTC)
09:13<@DorpsGek>-Add: allow opening a story window specific to a company
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09:17<@DorpsGek>Commit by zuu :: r25370 /trunk/src (4 files in 4 dirs) (2013-06-09 13:17:20 UTC)
09:17<@DorpsGek>-Fix: Make the prefix for widget constants unique for the goal list window
09:18<@DorpsGek>Commit by rubidium :: r25371 /trunk (24 files in 9 dirs) (2013-06-09 13:18:37 UTC)
09:18<@DorpsGek>-Fix: svn:eolstyle / svn:keywords
09:23<@DorpsGek>Commit by zuu :: r25372 /trunk/src (7 files in 4 dirs) (2013-06-09 13:23:03 UTC)
09:23<@DorpsGek>-Add: Allow opening a goal list window specific to a company
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09:24<@DorpsGek>Commit by fonsinchen :: r25373 /trunk/src/script/api (game/game_window.hpp.sq script_window.hpp) (2013-06-09 13:24:26 UTC)
09:24<@DorpsGek>-Add: squirrel bindings for cargodist-specific widgets
09:31<@DorpsGek>Commit by zuu :: r25374 /trunk/src/lang (49 files) (2013-06-09 13:31:14 UTC)
09:31<@DorpsGek>-Update: Remove stale goal translations
09:32<@DorpsGek>Commit by fonsinchen :: r25375 /trunk (readme.txt src/misc_gui.cpp) (2013-06-09 13:31:59 UTC)
09:32<@DorpsGek>-Update: add fonsinchen to credits
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09:37<@DorpsGek>Commit by zuu :: r25376 /trunk/src (4 files in 4 dirs) (2013-06-09 13:37:04 UTC)
09:37<@DorpsGek>-Feature: Allow access to goal list and story book of other companies than your own
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09:55<@DorpsGek>Commit by rubidium :: r25377 /trunk/src (4 files in 2 dirs) (2013-06-09 13:55:33 UTC)
09:55<@DorpsGek>-Feature: timetable spreading of vehicles by Ctrl+Click when setting a start date
09:56<@DorpsGek>Commit by rubidium :: r25378 /trunk/src/lang (53 files in 2 dirs) (2013-06-09 13:56:36 UTC)
09:56<@DorpsGek>-Cleanup: remove stale/outdated string
10:10<@DorpsGek>Commit by fonsinchen :: r25379 trunk/src/station_cmd.cpp (2013-06-09 14:10:33 UTC)
10:10<@DorpsGek>-Fix: avoid warning in FlowStatMap::FinalizeLocalConsumption
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10:12<@DorpsGek>Commit by zuu :: r25380 trunk/src/story_gui.cpp (2013-06-09 14:11:55 UTC)
10:12<@DorpsGek>-Fix (r25344): Vertically center images of page elements in the available vertical space
10:14<@DorpsGek>Commit by zuu :: r25381 /trunk/src (script/api/script_story_page.cpp story_gui.cpp) (2013-06-09 14:13:59 UTC)
10:14<@DorpsGek>-Fix: Silent story book compiler warnings
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10:49<@Alberth>I guess I can delete my cargo dist copy of 2010 now :)
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11:23<@DorpsGek>Commit by fonsinchen :: r25382 trunk/src/lang/english.txt (2013-06-09 15:23:01 UTC)
11:23<@DorpsGek>-Fix: STR_CONFIG_SETTING_DISTRIBUTION_ARMOURED_HELPTEXT was inaccurate
11:36<@DorpsGek>Commit by zuu :: r25383 /trunk/src (54 files in 2 dirs) (2013-06-09 15:36:31 UTC)
11:36<@DorpsGek>-Fix (r25376): Remove now redundant menu entries for story book and goals
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11:56<Samu>hi
11:57<Samu>i found a transparency bug, i think
11:57<Samu>the 'full detail' details do not become transparent
12:01<Samu>nor inisible, just tried that too
12:01<Samu>invisible
12:02<Samu>I can however turn 'full detail' off and they're gone (invisible)
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12:09<Samu>is it called catenary?
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12:19<Samu>I've also been trying the original_windows midis
12:19<Samu>so far I haven't had sound going mute
12:20<Samu>odd stuff :(
12:22<Zuu>Poor DorpsGek ... too much work today :-)
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12:22<Samu>so far, that is since yesterday and today
12:22<Samu>hi zuu
12:22<Zuu>Hi Samu
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12:35<Jogio>hi together "_"
12:36<Samu>hi
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12:39<LordAro|Phone>Heyo
12:39<LordAro|Phone>I saw the changelogs
12:39<Jogio>@planetmaker: I translated some new strings, can you look if they ok, especially I don't knew I really good translation for story book
12:40<Jogio>hi
12:40<@planetmaker>I wondered where the missing strings are
12:40<LordAro|Phone>I guess I need to learn how cargo dist works :L
12:40<Jogio>haha
12:40<@planetmaker>and as I was just told... not quite appropriate it seems...
12:41<@planetmaker><planetmaker> Zuu, can you frame me a bit more of what's put down in the story book? I've trouble translating it
12:41<@planetmaker><Zuu> I'm currently updating the wiki about it. Also see the discussion I and Alberth had about its name earlier today (in #openttd)
12:41<@planetmaker><planetmaker> I see. So... something which translates (also) as 'history book' would suit it?
12:41<@planetmaker><planetmaker> In German 'story' and 'history' translate to the same word. Or can be.
12:41<@planetmaker><planetmaker> or would rather 'chronicles' than 'history' fit?
12:41<@planetmaker><Zuu> I would emphaize on storry telling rather than history if that is possible.
12:41<@planetmaker><Zuu> In Swedish story has two translations. One that is more like past history and one that is more related to story telling.
12:41<@planetmaker><planetmaker> yes... Geschichtsbuch vs. Geschichtenbuch ;-)
12:41<Jogio>they went to last changed strings
12:41<@planetmaker><Zuu> As long as 'history book' in german is not all about past history it should be good.
12:41<@planetmaker><Zuu> And if it doesn't turn out well, it can be changed later.
12:41<@planetmaker>^ if you don't mind the long quote
12:41<@planetmaker>sorry zuu
12:41<+glx>and a last HL ;)
12:42<Samu>http://dw4.convertfiles.com/files/0717952001370796096/fx-8150.pdf
12:42<Jogio>you thought of translating story book, too, planetmaker?xD
12:43<Zuu>planetmaker: good that you reused my answer and saved us both from typing :-)
12:43<Jogio>I finally wrote Begleitlogbuch xD
12:44<@planetmaker>yea... not good. It's not a log. It's a story
12:44<Jogio>Begleitstory
12:44<@planetmaker>but it's not a Geschichtsbuch either
12:45<Jogio>Begleitgeschichte
12:45<@planetmaker>^
12:45<@planetmaker>maybe
12:45<@planetmaker>why "Begleit"?
12:45<Jogio>yeah but i finally wrote logbuch xD
12:45<Jogio>hmm
12:45<Zuu>planetmaker: I've now updated https://secure.openttd.org/wiki/Story_book
12:46<Zuu>See this section on different suggested ways to use it: https://secure.openttd.org/wiki/Story_book#Different_ways_to_program_the_Story_Book
12:46<Jogio>direct translating sounded so bad
12:46<@planetmaker>"Allgemeine Geschichte". "Geschichte für {COMPANY}"
12:46<Zuu>Also the paragraph at the top provides some use cases
12:47<Jogio>no geschichte is not so good
12:47<@planetmaker>why not?
12:47<@planetmaker>Logbuch really is worse imho
12:47<Jogio>yeah hmm
12:47<Zuu>My last screenshot of the patch may also be useful: http://devs.openttd.org/~zuu/goal-gui/toolbar3.png
12:48<@planetmaker>an anonymous German just told me "Tagebuch"
12:48<@planetmaker>which is... not bad at all
12:48<Jogio>i thougt of journal
12:48<@planetmaker>dairy, Zuu?
12:48<@planetmaker>Journal is a magazine
12:49<Jogio>hmm
12:49<@Rubidium>planetmaker: definitely not dairy ;)
12:49<@planetmaker>I'd like something which captures the "story telling"
12:49<@Rubidium>but that's more because you didn't mean what you actually wrote ;)
12:49<Jogio>or just keep it
12:49<Jogio>story Book
12:49<@Alberth>diary perhaps? :)
12:49<@planetmaker>yea.... s/dairy/diary/
12:50<Samu>chat log?
12:50<Jogio>you don't chat with it
12:51<@Alberth>@logs
12:51<@DorpsGek>Alberth: http://irclogs.qmsk.net/channels/openttd
12:51<@Alberth>oh, different kind of reference :)
12:52<@Rubidium>planetmaker: maybe google for german (speaking) universities with (interactive) storytelling and maybe they have a nice German term?
12:52<frosch123>planetmaker: "Narrativum" :p
12:52<@Rubidium>there was a conference in Erfurt, but that page was only in English
12:53<Samu>questing?
12:53<Jogio>I typed in webtranslator and it wrote "Bilderbuch" for story book
12:53<@planetmaker>lol, frosch123
12:53<@planetmaker>haha :-)
12:53<@planetmaker>my dictonary give me Gescht*en*buch
12:53<@planetmaker>ach... Geschichtenbuch
12:53<Samu>objectives? game tips?
12:54<@planetmaker>samu, please inform yourself what we talk about
12:54<Samu>quest log
12:54<Samu>:(
12:54<frosch123>http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Handlungsbuch
12:54<Samu>bahh, i don't know german
12:54<@planetmaker>interesting, frosch123
12:55<fonsinchen>Maybe we should drop "buch" and make that only "Handlung" or "Aufgaben".
12:55<frosch123>it's wrong, but sounds similar :p
12:56<frosch123>planetmaker: apparently "Geschichtenbuch" is a word...
12:56<frosch123>so, stay with that one
12:56<@planetmaker>yes
12:56<@planetmaker>Erzählung might be another
12:56<Jogio>to ähh specific I think
12:57<@planetmaker>frosch123, "Handlungsbuch" is not so wrong really. After all it's the summary of deeds and planned deeds and their status of a company
12:58<Jogio>i have it
12:58<Jogio>Unbenannte Textausgabe
12:58<Samu>invoice book?
12:58<@planetmaker>lol, Jogio
12:59<Samu>ledger book?
13:00<@planetmaker>samu, we need a proper German translation of "story book" which fits the way OpenTTD uses it. Not random (back) translations. Thank you
13:00<Jogio>maybe we should ask mb
13:01<@planetmaker>no. But feel free to ask in the German forum
13:01<@planetmaker>so long... Geschichtenbuch I think
13:01<Jogio>hmmm
13:02<Samu>I think i see what I mean
13:03<Samu>you mean*
13:04<Samu>there is a similar feature on BattleForge, let me run the game to see how did they translate
13:04<@planetmaker>it's after all easily changed, Jogio. It's only two strings, quickly found when searching for "story"
13:05<@planetmaker>I'm not exactly happy. Actually with neither of what we had
13:05<@planetmaker>So go ahead, make a thread in the German forum. Sometimes that proved helpful
13:05<@planetmaker>and / or revive the one at tt-forums about the German translation
13:06<@planetmaker>that also proved helpful. Not everyone who plays openttd and speaks German reads the German forums. Or writes there
13:06<Zuu>If you give it a day or two, I hope to get a GS on bananas that make use of the feature.
13:06<@planetmaker>:-)
13:07<@planetmaker>and ... maybe things will become also clearer if a few people have seen it in action. That includes myself
13:07<Samu>ok, BattleForge calls it Chronicle
13:07<Zuu>Until then, if you want a silly GS that uses it you can get this test GS: http://devs.openttd.org/~zuu/goal-gui/GoalGUI-Test-GS-v2.tar
13:08<Samu>there's 4 groups inside, Profile, World, Plot, Legends
13:08<Samu>and inside each, there even more tabs
13:09<@planetmaker>and maybe "Chronik" is not the worst really... in the sense of chronicles
13:09<Samu>Inside Plot, there's Chapter 1, Chapter 2, probably there's more chapters but I rarely play the game
13:12<@planetmaker>Jogio, change it to "Chronik" for now, might sound better and ... be less ambiguous?
13:13*Alberth likes Chronicle
13:15<Jogio>ok
13:15<@planetmaker>Jogio, I did not yet review the cargodist strings. Did you already have a look, especially wrt consistency with the rest of openttd?
13:15<@Alberth>grr, downloaded the opengfx nightly yesterday, and today it is already obsolete :)
13:16<@planetmaker>he... seems like there's work to do :-)
13:16<Jogio>no
13:16<@planetmaker>they were committed directly... thus don't show as anything new or whatever... not sure I'm actually fond of that procedure :-)
13:17<Zuu>planetmaker: How should it have been done instead?
13:17<@planetmaker>not commit a translation at all
13:17<Samu>BattleForge is a medieval like RTS game with a heavy emphasis on narrative lore,
13:18<Zuu>Ah, the translation. I though you were refering to the baseset.
13:18<@planetmaker>no
13:18<Samu>but it was originally a german only game
13:18<@planetmaker>I see no other way there :-)
13:19<Samu>a card / rts hybrid kind of game
13:19<Jogio>But fonsinchen wrote cargodist I think?? So he's speaking germen himself i think
13:19<@planetmaker>yes, so?
13:20<Jogio>yeah, translation should be ok then i think
13:20<fonsinchen>Chronik is better than my suggestion.
13:20<@planetmaker>I believe that those people who usually translate, are better into the translations. And a discussion like this is also usually helpful in getting better strings
13:21<@planetmaker>which is hard to get, if not noticed at all by translators
13:22<fonsinchen>I did not actually write all of the german translation. Some other guy sent me a german translation and I had the choice between rejecting of fixing it ...
13:22<@planetmaker>yes, that's what I assume(d)
13:22<fonsinchen>Rejecting would have been rude, I thought.
13:22<@planetmaker>not. He can use translation service and add his
13:22<@planetmaker>we always do it that way
13:26<@planetmaker>the translation definitely has potential for improvement
13:26<Samu>http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/BattleForge
13:27<@planetmaker>and it's now a pita to find them all :-(
13:27<Jogio>hmm just klick next
13:30<fonsinchen>I have the list of strings if that helps
13:30<@planetmaker>the commit does have that, too
13:30<Jogio>do you like gesättigt?
13:30<@planetmaker>but it has not category for them like "untranslated" or "needs validation"
13:30<@planetmaker>yes
13:30<fonsinchen>It was not actually my idea to commit the translations ...
13:31<Jogio>hmm
13:31<@planetmaker>what would you choose, Jogio ?
13:31<@planetmaker>fonsinchen, why is the number of days in those strings a {STRING} and not a {NUM}? {NUM} would allow proper plural treatment
13:32<@planetmaker>STR_CONFIG_SETTING_LINKGRAPH_TIME and friends
13:32<Jogio>i thought of optimal but this not really good too
13:32<frosch123>planetmaker: that is the case for all settings, you can still use plurals btw
13:32<fonsinchen>That probably is because I didn't know about the benefits of using NUM there at the time I wrote it.
13:33<@planetmaker>saturated is not optimal. Optimal depends on POV
13:33<@planetmaker>frosch123, how can I do that?
13:33<@planetmaker>I guess I need to know which {STRING} is included
13:34<Jogio>hmm and "Überladen"... maybe write "Überlastet"
13:34<@planetmaker>yes, better
13:35<@planetmaker>hm... WT3 swalled a plural definition, indeed
13:35<frosch123>i guess we changed the adv. settings multiple times during cdist :p
13:36<frosch123>i think all settings have the variable part at the end now, don't they?
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13:38<NGC3982>puss
13:38<alluke>puss puss
13:38<@planetmaker>aua. Klimas
13:38<NGC3982>My game paused itself!
13:39<NGC3982>I forgot that I forgot that I actually set min_active_clients to 1.
13:39<@planetmaker>valuables distribution is syntactically and semantically totally wrongly translated
13:41<frosch123>STR_CONFIG_SETTING_LINKGRAPH_TIME :Take {STRING2} day{P 0:2 "" s} for recalculation of distribution graph <- planetmaker
13:41<frosch123>anyway, we should also fix the english strings
13:42<frosch123>they do not use pluirals either
13:42<@planetmaker>I'll wait for that...
13:42<@planetmaker>why 0:2 ?
13:43<Jogio>ok, i will correct Valuables string
13:43<@planetmaker>I did treat that one... but please check again :-)
13:43<@planetmaker>there also might be more :-)
13:44<Jogio>ok
13:44<Samu>there is male singular, male plural, female singular, female plural in portuguese and there's yet some other when neither of these fit
13:44<frosch123>0-th paramter (the string2) (2-nd parameter of the string)
13:44<@planetmaker>uh... meh
13:44<frosch123>hmm "update distribution graph" only accepts even numbers :p
13:45<frosch123>http://paste.openttdcoop.org/show/2320/ <- anyway, when is the best time to commit that, to break as much as possible? :p
13:45<@planetmaker>translation locked.... so .... that plural will be bad in nightly :D
13:45<@planetmaker>now
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13:49<Jogio>ok I changed more of this valuable string.
13:51<fonsinchen>There is a reason for accepting only even numbers there. I have to leave, though.
13:51<Jogio>hmm, I think there's more to change
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13:52<@Alberth>http://devs.openttd.org/~alberth/shipping_problem.png looks like I'll have a ship-ish game :)
13:53<@Rubidium>frosch123: probably 'now' would be the worst ;)
13:54<@planetmaker>hehe, Alberth :-)
13:54<@planetmaker>I hope you find some FISH :D
13:54<Samu>nice map
13:54<Samu>needs some more hills
13:54<Samu>but nice
13:54<@Alberth>watery maps are very nice to play
13:56<@peter1138>people actually play this game?
13:56<Samu>yes
13:57<@peter1138>i'm shocked
13:57<Samu>is that land color the normal Green?
13:58<Samu>I'm using Dark Green
14:01<@Alberth>normal green, apparently
14:01<Jogio>Hey, openttd has exactly 4000 Strings :-)
14:02<Zuu>So it is the 4000 Strings party tonight? ;-)
14:02<@planetmaker>:-)
14:02<@planetmaker>uh... that sounds juicy, Zuu :D :D :D
14:02<@Alberth>we're still 96 strings short of a nice number?
14:04<Jogio>maybe we should make same alternative names for "Player" in Multiplayer games :-)
14:04<Samu>yesh!
14:04<frosch123>makes it only more complicated for server owners who ban the default names
14:04<@planetmaker>"Combatant" "contestant" "victim" "vermin" :-P
14:05<Samu>call them by color
14:05<Samu>Orange, Pink, Blue, Green etc...
14:05<@planetmaker>PlayerTheNorth. PlayerTheSouth, ... :D
14:05<@Rubidium>playermaker?
14:06<Jogio>Player 17 1/2
14:06<Samu>I like to rename Players to their associated company color
14:06*Rubidium hopes Belugas enjoys the sound of F1 cars ;)
14:07<@planetmaker>also. And Potassium, Ceasium and Francium
14:08<NGC3982>Good elements
14:08<Samu>I suggested before a popup window for player name when clicking Multiplayer for the first ime
14:08<Samu>time*
14:08<Samu>you didn't like it
14:09<@planetmaker>you can choose your name in the multiplayer join window, samu
14:09<@planetmaker>what more?
14:10<Samu>they till ask how to change their name
14:10<@Rubidium>what is "first"
14:10<Samu>still
14:10<Samu>oops sorry, so many typos
14:12<Samu>first time they ever enter that menu, a clean install, or a fresh openttd.cfg?
14:13<frosch123>hmm...
14:14<frosch123>where might i have more obm files...
14:14<frosch123>and how can ottd display a different baseset description via --help than ingame :s
14:15<@planetmaker>path ambiguity through tar?
14:15<frosch123>i don't think i have no_music.obm in a tar
14:19<Samu>C:\Program Files\OpenTTD\baseset\no_music.obm
14:21<@DorpsGek>Commit by translators :: r25385 /trunk/src/lang (61 files in 2 dirs) (2013-06-09 18:20:54 UTC)
14:21<@DorpsGek>-Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
14:21<@DorpsGek>english_US - 59 changes by Rubidium
14:21<@DorpsGek>finnish - 59 changes by jpx_
14:21<@DorpsGek>french - 18 changes by glx
14:21<@DorpsGek>german - 21 changes by Jogio, planetmaker
14:21<@DorpsGek>lithuanian - 42 changes by butkus
14:21<@DorpsGek>spanish - 59 changes by Terkhen
14:21<@DorpsGek>swedish - 39 changes by Zuu, daishan
14:22<Mazur>Why is it, that connecting to a network server, both joining company 0 or company 255 put one in a new company, and neither in spectator mode? Could hat be altered?
14:22<Mazur>+t
14:23<@planetmaker>hm?
14:23<@planetmaker>can you elaborate a bit, Mazur?
14:24<@planetmaker>I mean... I often join PS as spectator. Or if I join as new player in a company, I join a new company...
14:24<Mazur>When you copnnect to, for instance to Stable like this: "openttd -n stable.openttdcoop.org:3999" you can add the company you want to join on hte command line, with "-c X".
14:25<@planetmaker>ah. so your problem only shows when starting via cmd directly a connection to the server?
14:25<Mazur>openttd -n stable.openttdcoop.iorg:3999 -c 0 connects you to a new company, and so dos -c 255.
14:26<@planetmaker>sounds like a bug if it doesn't work like you describe. 255 is spectator. 0 is server and should not work
14:26<Mazur>does
14:26<Mazur>It works like I describe, rather than how I prefer.
14:27-!-FLHerne [~quassel@dsl-217-155-24-22.zen.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
14:27<@planetmaker>yes, please... raise an issue about it in our bug tracker... :-) you may copy this conversation
14:27<Mazur>Ah, server, I had overlooked htat option, which makes three options besides existing companies.
14:28<@planetmaker>game script deity mode is company 0 :-) - which is the server itself
14:29<@Rubidium>Mazur: -c is the config file, so you want to use config file 0 and 255...
14:29<@Rubidium>Mazur: it's not the company you join as
14:29-!-Jogio [~5080b303@188.cimarosa.openttdcoop.org] has quit [Quit: Page closed]
14:30<Mazur>*duh*
14:30<Mazur>I was sure I'd seen it referred to as specifying a company.
14:30<Mazur>CReative reading, perhaps.
14:31-!-FLHerne [~quassel@dsl-217-155-24-22.zen.co.uk] has joined #openttd
14:32<Mazur>My mind sometimes does that to me.
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14:34<Mazur>Ah, after a hashtag.
14:35<Mazur>openttd -n stable.openttdcoop.iorg:3999#255 down what I was looking for.
14:35<Mazur>s/down/does.
14:47<Samu>I'm not having any sound issue yet, I'm going to wait until next saturday before switching from original_windows to OpenMSX
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14:51<Samu>or... wait for it to happen, I don't really know what to expect
14:51<Samu>so far, so good
14:51<@DorpsGek>Commit by frosch :: r25386 trunk/src/lang/english.txt (2013-06-09 18:51:49 UTC)
14:51<@DorpsGek>-Fix: Use plural forms in linkgraph settings.
14:52<frosch123>planetmaker: did you add the plurals, or did you wanted to wait for english?
14:56<Samu>you sped up aircraft on 1.3.1
14:56<Samu>I notice they're leaving airports quickier now
14:57<frosch123>or slower
14:58<Samu>no, they're definitely faster
14:58<@DorpsGek>Commit by rubidium :: r25387 /trunk/src (4 files in 4 dirs) (2013-06-09 18:58:36 UTC)
14:58<@DorpsGek>-Fix: "typos" in @file filename
15:01<Samu>i think it's their acceleration speed
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15:11<Samu>bug or intended? ctrl-click will follow ship in main view - doesn't seem to work when zoom is 1/2, 1/4 or 1/8
15:13<Samu>works with the other zoom levels, x1, x2 and x4
15:16<@planetmaker>uh... I think... I applied it to one of the two, frosch123 :D Got distracted mid-changing it
15:17<@planetmaker>should be in the "need review" section anyway as english changed
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15:56<Samu>the subsidy generator is a good troll at times
15:56<@planetmaker>frosch123, did you address the plural issue in the German translation already?
15:56<Samu>mail from town 1 to town 2 - town 1 creates 1 mail a month, and no matter where you place a station, it doesn't accept mail
15:57<Supercheese>"Subsidy offered: Passengers from this 18-population town transported to this 24-population town."
15:57<Samu>:)
15:57<Supercheese>something like that eh
15:57<Supercheese>although I guess the destination population is irrelevant
15:57<frosch123>planetmaker: no, only english
16:00<frosch123>after every dist upgrade i need some days to get used to different fonts, but i never figure out what actually changed about the fonts
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16:05<@planetmaker>:-)
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16:13<frosch123>so, how would nocargoal with storybook work?
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16:13<frosch123>pick a different cargo every year? possibly annoucning it 3 months in advance?
16:13<frosch123>one storybook page per year
16:14<@planetmaker>3 month in advance? Not much time. Nor one year really
16:14<@planetmaker>Communism invented the 5-year-plans for a reason ;-)
16:14<@planetmaker>though that might be too much
16:15<@planetmaker>maybe announce goal and next goal (valid in a year)
16:15<frosch123>well, it should not be about building a network and transport everything independent of goals :p
16:15<@planetmaker>so you have effectively 14 minutes to plan for new goal (and reach current)
16:15<frosch123>so, the overall length of a game cannot be too long
16:16<@planetmaker>"year of the {STRING}"
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16:16<frosch123>or should it spawn subsidy-like stuff?
16:17<@planetmaker>prophets say that the way the raven flew indicates that the next year will be a year of the livestock ;-)
16:17<frosch123>build route from industry a to b in next year?
16:17<frosch123>but for goal-points instead of profit
16:18<@planetmaker>bring 250 {CARGO} to {TOWN} in the next 12 months
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16:19<frosch123>i wonder whether too short time spans would result in using aircraft :p
16:19<@Rubidium>bring 250 gold to Sleepyville ;)
16:19<@planetmaker>:-)
16:19<@planetmaker>frosch123, might well be
16:20<@planetmaker>Rubidium, unfortunately sleepyville is too small for a bank to be founded? ;-)
16:21<frosch123>hmm, i could make silicon valley 2 from that
16:21<Supercheese>Newgrf houses that accept gold :P
16:21<@planetmaker>Supercheese, my house always accepts gold. For payment rates near 0$
16:22<Supercheese>:P
16:22<frosch123>"you are obsessed about steel mills", you cannot stand villages without one, as such you have instructed your minions to build one in advance to every vacation you are doing
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16:22<@planetmaker>vacation?
16:23<@planetmaker>how often do you have vacations? :-P
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16:24<frosch123>planetmaker: what's the name of the movie, where they have to simulate the ddr to not cause a heartattack for the grandma?
16:25<frosch123>anyway, something like that
16:25<@Rubidium>goodbye lenin?
16:25<@planetmaker>yes, ^
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16:25<frosch123>you are the rich son of an old steel monopolist, and you have to make sure that there is busy steel production wherever he visits
16:25<@planetmaker>might be. Or Sonnenallee?
16:25<frosch123>goodbye lenin sounds like it
16:26<@planetmaker>frosch123, you can fulfill a "steel mill whereever he visits" only if you make HUGE piles of money. They cost more than the transport
16:26<frosch123>you could put a helper ai in it, which build roads and a vehicle, and the vehicle should visit as many busy steelmills as possible
16:26<@planetmaker>possibly the GS should look for the steel mills. And only demand them being operational at a level of {NUM} output per month
16:26<frosch123>planetmaker: only subject to cost grfs
16:27<frosch123>but yeah, variants are possible :)
16:30<@planetmaker>A script which gives yearly different goals with an advance "warning" of a year might prove very interesting still ... but that's another GS :-)
16:32<frosch123>well, i think storybook is mainly about changing goals, and summing the score of them
16:32<@planetmaker>the goal changes there yearly :-)
16:32<@planetmaker>and it would need summing aquired points from previous years
16:32<@planetmaker>would all be global, though
16:53<Zuu>I have published a new NoCarGoal that uses the Story Book. However, it is a bit limited at the moment as I want to keep the support for 1.3 users.
16:53<Zuu>I noticed one issue - goals use orange as text colour while the story book follow the blue windows and uses black as text colour.
16:55<Zuu>In a case where 1.3 users don't need to be supported, I'd short the string length of the goals. But that would now create a lot of duplicated functionality which I want to avoid.
16:56<frosch123>i would expect the gs to use colour codes in the storybook for headlines and stuff
16:56<frosch123>black is fine for non-emphasised text
16:57<Zuu>I think the text become harder to read if you add white/yellow text to highlight the goals in the intro text.
16:58<Zuu>The centered title is the title text of the page. Creating a second such title is currently not possible via the API.
17:02<@planetmaker>it need not be too colourful. It often suffices to subtly change shading for highlight. E.g. using dark gray instead of black or so
17:04<frosch123>once there was the idea to remove all colour codes and add {emph}/{noemph} instead
17:05<@planetmaker>that might still be a good idea
17:05<frosch123>then the colour schemes of the windows could be unified and even made configurable
17:05<@planetmaker>^
17:05<frosch123>but sadly, a lot of work :p
17:05<@planetmaker>^
17:05<@planetmaker>:-)
17:05<@planetmaker>maybe we should add it to the TODO list :-)
17:05<frosch123>hell no
17:05<@planetmaker>no?
17:06<frosch123>someone will edit the string manually and give 20k lines diff for review
17:06<frosch123>500 revisions in the past
17:06<@planetmaker>:-) Well. Proper hint on how-to might be needed
17:07<Zuu>A first step could be to add {em} and {/em} codes.
17:07<Zuu>A second to write a script that process the language files.
17:09<Zuu>It indeed only need a slight shade, however figuring out which colour code that give only a slight colour shift is not always easy.
17:09<@planetmaker>yes, I know :-(
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17:12<ZxBiohazardZx>when i download the nightly
17:12<ZxBiohazardZx>i get a message certain base-set parts are missing
17:12<@planetmaker>world ends?
17:13<ZxBiohazardZx>ofc new content related and such
17:13<ZxBiohazardZx>but i was wondering
17:13<ZxBiohazardZx>are the available somewhere?:P
17:13<@planetmaker>yes... on my hard disk :-P
17:13<ZxBiohazardZx>lol planetmaker
17:13<ZxBiohazardZx>no fruitstore or opengfx addition then i guess?
17:13<@planetmaker>and actually in the repo. But I did not commit before nightly compile run
17:13<ZxBiohazardZx>ah its fine, was just wondering :)
17:13<@planetmaker>no(t yet)
17:14<@planetmaker>I can link you to a compiled nightly... give me a few minutes
17:15<ZxBiohazardZx>not sure if i mentioned before, but more games notify users that an upgrade is available, and add auto-update for it, can bananas forfill a similar service updating the game to most recent of that type (nightly, stable)?
17:15<@planetmaker>devs.openttd.org/~planetmaker/patches/opengfx-r1016M.zip
17:15<ZxBiohazardZx>nice :)
17:16<@planetmaker>ZxBiohazardZx, you can use "upgrade all existing" in the online content
17:16<ZxBiohazardZx>that is for newgrfs
17:16<@planetmaker>no
17:16<ZxBiohazardZx>not the game itself;)
17:16<Zuu>ZxBiohazardZx: Which OS do you use?
17:16<ZxBiohazardZx>win64
17:16<@planetmaker>it's for all online content, ZxBiohazardZx
17:16<ZxBiohazardZx>wintendo ftw
17:16<@planetmaker>And that includes base sets
17:16<ZxBiohazardZx>yes planet but not the game itself;)
17:17<ZxBiohazardZx>aka stable 1.3.1 wont auto-update to 1.3.2 for example
17:17<Zuu>ZxBiohazardZx: http://wiki.openttd.org/OpenTTD_Updaters
17:17<@planetmaker>why wouldn't it?
17:17<ZxBiohazardZx>or r25385 wont go into 25386
17:17<@planetmaker>yes, it doesn't
17:17<@planetmaker>but... see Zuu's link
17:17<Zuu>I use OpenTTD Auto Update 2.0 myself. (suprisingly)
17:17<ZxBiohazardZx>Zuu yeah 3rd party updater :P
17:18<frosch123>1st party for zuu :p
17:18<ZxBiohazardZx>so 3rd party but not possible to merge that in? :P
17:18<ZxBiohazardZx>haha
17:18<frosch123>2nd party if you talk to zuu
17:18<Zuu>:-)
17:18<ZxBiohazardZx>anyway i got that now as well, might be usefull :)
17:19<@Rubidium>ZxBiohazardZx: a main problem is not being able to write to the executable while it runs, which would mean we would need to create another application that updates it for you
17:19<ZxBiohazardZx>Rubidium or restart it?
17:19<Zuu>ZxBiohazardZx: certainly possible, but so far noone have though that it is worth enough their time.
17:19<ZxBiohazardZx>but yeah i just thought of that issue as well
17:19<Zuu>OTTDAU has a such secondary exe which it usees to update itself.
17:19<ZxBiohazardZx>most updaters run as seperate or as pre-game-launcher
17:20<@Rubidium>ZxBiohazardZx: yeah... but that doesn't actually perform the update
17:20<@Rubidium>(the restarting that is)
17:20<@Rubidium>and that's why I'm talking about a secondary application
17:20<ZxBiohazardZx>i see the issue :P
17:21<ZxBiohazardZx>you could add the "updater" as seperate program and start it from the game itself (therby closing the game, opening the updater?) but yeah im starting to see the work piling up already :P
17:21<@Rubidium>ZxBiohazardZx: and if we have improvements to the updater?
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17:21<@Rubidium>yay...
17:23<@planetmaker>Rubidium, that's of course a catch 22. But ... it's a problem solved (or at least "solved") elsewhere, too.
17:23<ZxBiohazardZx>yeah hence i said Rubidium, i can forsee the work piling up :P
17:23<@Rubidium>and then it should also work on the majority of the platforms which brings you into kinda hell ;)
17:24<@Rubidium>planetmaker: yes, by putting the updater in both the updater and the application that it normally updates (so it can update the updater before updating itself)
17:24<ZxBiohazardZx>:p
17:24<@Rubidium>and... if you want automatic-ish updates, use an operating system that provides that out-of-the-box
17:25<Zuu>The self updater exe for OTTDAU is downloaded with each self update. So if a new version need a new self updater exe that can be shiped as one update and not two.
17:25<@planetmaker>that's really a bad argument, no? And which does?
17:25<@planetmaker>no OS auto-updates
17:25<@Rubidium>(which coindentally are also operating systems that allow replacing binaries that are running, which makes this so much simpler)
17:26<@planetmaker>no major linux distribution I ever tested ships e.g. every testing release
17:26<@Rubidium>planetmaker: but the vast majority doesn't need those ;)
17:26<@planetmaker>even then... same applies for stable releases
17:26<@Rubidium>and that's also one of the somewhat problems...
17:27<@Rubidium>if you have a testing release, should that update to a stable release?
17:27<@Rubidium>if you have a stable release, should that update to a testing release?
17:27<perk11>yeah openttd is always stale if you install it from repo on linux
17:27<ZxBiohazardZx>rubidium no
17:27<ZxBiohazardZx>stable -> stable only imo
17:27<@Rubidium>Version: 1.3.1-1
17:27<ZxBiohazardZx>you picked stable for the definition of it
17:27<@Rubidium>perk11: ^ not that stale ;)
17:28<ZxBiohazardZx>the RC's imo are stables, but that is indeed point of debate as well
17:28<ZxBiohazardZx>hence i said before: i can see the work piling up rapidly :P
17:28<ZxBiohazardZx>choice is the problem
17:28<ZxBiohazardZx>its like the matrix
17:28<Zuu>Those questions can be solved, but that is not the point. The point why it is not in OpenTTD yet is that it is non-trivial and noone has been enough motivated to invest the time needed.
17:28<@Rubidium>they aren't for multiplayer, except that they are more useful for multiplayer than nightlies
17:29<ZxBiohazardZx>choice of OS, choice of revision, choice of whatever :P
17:29<@planetmaker>Rubidium, I don't have to explain to you that our testing points to stable, if stable is newer :-)
17:29<@Rubidium>planetmaker: true, but then you are in stable and you won't get testing anymore
17:29<perk11>Rubidium: just tried it... Ubuntu repo has 1.1.4
17:29<@planetmaker>so that rule for a user wanting "testing" wouldn't be too bad
17:29<@planetmaker>the knowledge of what is wanted can easily be kept in the cfg
17:30<@Rubidium>and then there might also be the wish to have a version tailored for a particular server
17:30<ZxBiohazardZx>:P or even in the version you use at that moment
17:30<ZxBiohazardZx>autoupdate param in config
17:30<Zuu>OpenTTD would then store the release target just like OTTDAU keeps track of which release target you want for each OpenTTD installation.
17:30<@Rubidium>which is kinda why OTTDAU exists and probably should remain separate
17:30<ZxBiohazardZx>dont update, update stable only, always update
17:30<ZxBiohazardZx>XD
17:30<@planetmaker>Rubidium, *that* is not our worry
17:30<ZxBiohazardZx>param ftw
17:31<ZxBiohazardZx>as planet mentioned, a cfg option can handle that behaviour if needed
17:32<@Terkhen>good night
17:32<perk11>just make openttd a metro app for windows - it gets automatic updates on windows as well :)
17:32<ZxBiohazardZx>win8 only perk11?
17:33<+glx>of course win8 only
17:33<perk11>ZxBiohazardZx: yeah, and it would probably be too much unnecessary work, but that's how it should be ideally I guess
17:33<+glx>and not free IIRC
17:34<@Rubidium>and yes, a config option... and then store the path to openttd in the config so the X installs you have can have their own update settings?
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17:34<@Rubidium>as I said, it's better to have an external application that handles multiple installations and the likes for you
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17:36<@Rubidium>so, use ottdau
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17:36<ZxBiohazardZx>yeah its fine just was wondering as i sometimes do :P
17:36<ZxBiohazardZx>then ofc stumbling on these semi-obvious issues :P
17:37<@Rubidium>that reminds me...
17:37<@Rubidium>should we declare the OSX port dead? It still doesn't have the bootstrap downloading
17:38<@planetmaker>dunno... no. yes. no.
17:39<@planetmaker>but I know that I should head to bed now... so good night everyone :-)
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18:13<ZxBiohazardZx>haha good night
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19:29<Samu>I've been subsidy trolled :p
19:30<Samu>subsidy - bring oil to that refinery
19:30<Samu>refinery - closed!
19:31<Samu>subsidy - haha, trolled!
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