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#openttd IRC Logs for 2013-06-10

---Logopened Mon Jun 10 00:00:58 2013
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01:05<Supercheese>Aww, no function in the scenario editor to "flow river from this starting point"
01:06<Supercheese>Have to place it manually? :S
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02:38<Supercheese>Weird, all my HEQS trams have lower capacity
02:38<Supercheese>I wonder what happened
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02:42<Supercheese>Huh, very odd
02:43<@planetmaker>Supercheese, cargo can have a capacity multiplier. goods usually has 2, while others have 1
02:43<Supercheese>I think there's a bug somewhere in FIRS
02:44<Supercheese>HEQS trams report their capacity, "20t in four wagons" etc
02:44<Supercheese>but those capacities are incorrect in Tropic Basic economy
02:44<Supercheese>That's the only variable I'm changing, the economy parameter
02:44<Supercheese>and it's causing the capacity issues
02:44<@planetmaker>uhm... why do you think in FIRS?
02:45<Supercheese>guess I can check the source
02:46<@planetmaker>if capacities don't match, I'd start looking in the vehicle set
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02:46<Supercheese>I think HEQS is NFO
02:46<@planetmaker>unless, you see the capacity issue with different vehicle sets
02:46<@planetmaker>I think not
02:46<@planetmaker>but I might err
02:47<@planetmaker>hm.... :S
02:47<Supercheese>can't read NFO
02:48<Supercheese>good lord, so much python wizardry with FIRS
02:48<@planetmaker>still. Try with other train, ship, plane, rv sets. If it's the same: it's FIRS. If not: HEQS
02:48<Supercheese>gotta grab the processed NML
02:50<Supercheese>well, other vehicles seem fine
02:51<Supercheese>I see your point
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02:53<Supercheese>HEQS bug, I guess
02:56<Supercheese>I wonder what could be the problem
02:57<@planetmaker>primary cargo could be
02:58<@planetmaker>if the primary cargo has a different cargo multiplier, it might propagate to each refit. It needs then setting explicitly
02:58<Supercheese>same problem for arctic basic
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03:02<Supercheese>maybe if the COAL cargo isn't defined?
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03:06<@planetmaker>for instance, yes. And if next is GOODs
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03:26<Supercheese>Yeah, the fallback primary cargo becomes MAIL
03:55<Supercheese>Huh, new menu icons
03:58<Supercheese>the new icons messed up the tooltips
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05:36<NGC3982>Time to explore the AI
05:36<NGC3982>After ten years of playing.
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07:25<@planetmaker>so... anyone playing with nightly might want to update his or her OpenGFX via online content
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09:52<Leftie>Hi. I'm wondering if anyone can help, i'm having trouble getting OpenTTD to compile :(
09:52<Leftie> is the exact error
09:53<Leftie>compiling from 1.3.1 source, too. don't think there is anything else i'm missing, installed the dependencies as stated on
09:56<__ln__>is this ubuntu or debian?
09:57<Leftie>its debian, debian 6 i believe.
09:57<__ln__>did you install build-essential?
09:57<Leftie>eeer, let me read the wiki again.
09:58<Leftie>yes, i did what the wiki said (sudo apt-get install build-essential pkg-config libsdl1.2-dev subversion patch zlib1g-dev liblzo2-dev liblzma-dev libfontconfig-dev libicu-dev)
09:58<@planetmaker>Leftie: lists (or should list) all needed libraries
09:58<Leftie>oh, is the wiki not up-to-date?
09:59<@planetmaker>it should also be up to date
09:59<@planetmaker>but would take me longer to find ;-)
09:59<@planetmaker>in case of doubt the wiki is actually more up to date really
09:59<Leftie>oh, if it matters i'm also using --enable-dedicated
10:00<Leftie>just trying to setup a little server for me and few friends to play on.
10:00<@planetmaker>can you paste config.log and the result of ./configure ?
10:01<Leftie>Yup, hold on whilst i get them.
10:01<@planetmaker>and you compile from the svn checkout, yes?
10:02<Leftie>no, i am compiling from the page, the source that is obtained from there.
10:03<Leftie>argh, no download-stable - clicked the wrong thing on page.
10:03<@planetmaker>uh... better get a subversion checkout if you want to create a server
10:03<@planetmaker>you have svn installed anyway, as you said
10:03<Leftie>oh, i thought it was just as simple as downloading it from
10:03<Leftie>tar -xzf + compile, surely that is the same that is used for all 1.3.1?
10:04<@planetmaker>well... *should* work... but it's not a good idea
10:04<Leftie>this is config.log
10:04<@planetmaker>might give unexpected results with the displayed version, though
10:05<Leftie>and is what the compiler exits on.
10:06<Leftie>no wait, it wasn't the make output you wanted >.< hold on
10:07<Leftie>this is the ./configure output, sorry
10:13<@planetmaker>still, looks like you're missing an essential package... linux-libc-dev
10:13<@planetmaker>is that installed?
10:14<Leftie>apt-get outputs linux-libc-dev is already the newest version, so 'fraid so
10:15<__ln__>is your root partition full?
10:16<Leftie>No, approx 7.41GB free, of a 10GB partition (VPS)
10:18<__ln__>try reinstalling linux-libc-dev
10:20<@planetmaker>yes ^
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10:21<Leftie>ah, this may take a while, apt-get removing linux-libc-dev seems to have removed build-essential and most other compiling things, will have to redo all them.
10:21<Leftie>or perhaps that was the point ;)
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10:24<@planetmaker>well... re-installing that package was the point. As the files compilation complains about not finding are part of that particular package
10:25<Leftie>well its reinstalled linux-libc-dev and build-essential + all the other things that was now missing from the wiki page list
10:25<Leftie>It's compiling OpenTTD again, but so far its got long past where it faultered before, so i think it may have done the trick :)
10:27<@planetmaker>the "while" was then relatively short :D
10:27<Leftie>Yeah, I always surprise myself with how fast this goes, to say its only 1X 3GHz, i always expect this little VPS to take yonks.
10:30<Leftie>aha, compiled and installed, just need to give it a graphic set, wasn't expect it to request one running in -D mode
10:31<Eddi|zuHause>it contains some essential stuff like (original) terrain generator patterns
10:32<Leftie>Is there any issue with copying the stuff from my local Windows installation, or are .grfs different between operating systems?
10:33<Eddi|zuHause>no problems
10:33<@planetmaker>Leftie: you should check that it reports the version you wanted as you didn't compile from svn
10:33<Eddi|zuHause>except maybe case sensitivity
10:33<Leftie>hm, the folder it created was 1.3.1, but i'll double check planetmaker
10:34<@planetmaker>./openttd --version
10:34<@planetmaker>./openttd --version | head -n1
10:35<@planetmaker>to skip all the other reporting
10:36<Leftie>output: OpenTTD 1.3.1 - i assume thats all good to go?
10:36<Eddi|zuHause>that should be correct
10:36<Eddi|zuHause>if it said something like "norev000" you couldn't use this as a server
10:37<@planetmaker>Leftie: generally using svn is both safer. And easier to update
10:38<Eddi|zuHause>and it will correctly detect modifications
10:38<Leftie>right, and thats just getting the current branch from svn://
10:38<Eddi|zuHause>you want to check out /tags/1.3.1
10:38<Leftie>I've never used svn on linux before, only through Windows via Tortoise SVN >.<
10:40<Eddi|zuHause>use "svn switch" to update later
10:40<@planetmaker>you can use tortoiseSVN on linux, too
10:40<@planetmaker>svn co svn://
10:41<@planetmaker>tortoise[svn|hg|git] is available for windows, linux and osx
10:42<@planetmaker>also, for ease of use: skip installing openttd on the server. Just grab the checkout, compile. And run. That suffices :-)
10:43<Leftie>ah nice
10:43<Leftie>thanks for the help you guys have been great, got it all hooked up and i've connected to it so its all working great.
10:43<Leftie>Thanks peeps :)
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11:25<Eddi|zuHause>yeah, "install" is of not much use unless you remove the source/build tree afterwards
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13:18<@DorpsGek>Commit by zuu :: r25388 trunk/src/lang/english.txt (2013-06-10 17:17:59 UTC)
13:18<@DorpsGek>-Fix [FS#5593] (r25376): Forgot to add tooltips for the new main menu buttons
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13:45<Wolf01>quak frosch123
13:45<@DorpsGek>Commit by translators :: r25389 /trunk/src/lang (7 files) (2013-06-10 17:45:38 UTC)
13:45<@DorpsGek>-Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
13:45<@DorpsGek>english_US - 2 changes by Rubidium
13:45<@DorpsGek>finnish - 2 changes by jpx_
13:45<@DorpsGek>french - 4 changes by glx
13:45<@DorpsGek>german - 5 changes by Jogio, planetmaker
13:45<@DorpsGek>italian - 59 changes by lorenzodv
13:45<@DorpsGek>polish - 1 changes by wojteks86
13:45<@DorpsGek>spanish - 2 changes by Terkhen
13:46<frosch123>moin wolf01
13:47<Wolf01> nice, new cargo type for TT: corpses
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13:55<@planetmaker>a bit... disgusting, Wolf01 :-)
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14:19<@planetmaker>hi Alberth
14:19<@Alberth>yay, new opengfx, thanks
14:20<@planetmaker>:-) yeah... only the new gui sprites, though
14:21<@planetmaker>that needs not too much work... only some palette conversions... and ignoring NML warnings about gui sprites :-P
14:26<Wolf01>hai Alberth
14:26<@Alberth>hi hi Wolf01
14:28<@Rubidium>hi Wolf01
14:32<Zuu>Its quiet today. Perhaps everyone plays with cargo distribution :-)
14:35<@Alberth>Zuu: you were too busy with story books, but it has been quiet the entire weekend as well :)
14:35<Zuu>hehe :-)
14:39*planetmaker checks whether OpenGFX+ Landscape still misses stuff
14:39<@Rubidium>planetmaker: it definitely does
14:40<@Alberth>it also seems to be missing things
14:41<@Alberth>oh, don't feel bad!
14:41*Alberth hugs planetmaker
14:43<@Rubidium>planetmaker: so far I have not seen a NewGRF that provides the cargo "stuff", even though I've often mentioned it ;)
14:44<@planetmaker>probably that should be added as easter egg into opengfx+industries ;-)
14:50<frosch123> <- Rubidium: ancient
14:51<@Alberth>lol, "not OTTD compatible" :)
14:51<frosch123>did ottd even exist? :p
14:52<@planetmaker>2007? I guess :-)
14:54<@planetmaker>Hm... that's about the time I started to play on #openttdcoop, thus when I came back to this game to stay
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15:39<Samu>I think I found a bug with replace vehicles when old
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15:39<Samu>and wagon removal on or off
15:39<Samu>not entirely certain though
15:39<Samu>must try again
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15:42<Samu>i told the game to replace SH '8P' when old to a TIM with wagon removal on, but also to replace SH '125P' when old to a TIM with wagon removal off
15:42<Samu>I had found some trains with an extra wagon later on
15:43<Samu>TIM trains
15:50<Samu>ok, got a old train again, 1 machine, 3 wagons - should be replacing to tim with wagon removed
15:51<@Terkhen>good night
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15:54<Samu>there it is
15:54<Samu>added tim, maintained 3 wagons :(
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16:06<Samu>confirmed again
16:06<Samu>i'm creating a report
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16:08<@planetmaker>ZxBiohazardZx, you can now update your OpenGFX ingame ;-)
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16:08<Samu>flyspray requires flash?
16:08<Samu>I uninstalled adobe flash
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16:09<Samu>ah, it doesn't - it's just the advert
16:11<@planetmaker>yes... the advert pays the server
16:12<Samu>it's those square icons, one at the top right, near Show Task #, the other at the bottom, near Flyspray text
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16:13<@planetmaker>Pages contain our sponsor's logo. In the way he wants it included
16:25<Samu>sorry, there was no more SH '8P's, but it's also happening to SH '30'
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16:40<Samu>how do I tell IE10 to stop telling me "this website wants to install adobe flash player from adobe systems"?
16:41<MNIM>not using IE would be a start
16:42<NGC3982>Does the average AI from the Online Content support using FIRS/ECS?
16:43<Zuu>FIRS better than ECS
16:43<NGC3982>I see.
16:44<Zuu>The average AI will probably not figure out the importance of suppliers, but it should use the cargos available.
16:44<Zuu>Its more a matter of it being able to understand some of the (over) complex vehicle NewGRFs.
16:45<+glx>ECS is already too complex for a human
16:45<NGC3982>I guess i wont use ECS anyway
16:45<NGC3982>But atleast FIRS and NARS/UKRS2.
16:46<Zuu>My bet is that UKRS2 works better than NARS.
16:46<Zuu>NARS have a cabose if I'm not mistaken.
16:46<NGC3982>UKRS2 has a brake van..
16:47<Zuu>Though if you use a road-AIs that will not make a difference which rail NewGRF you use.
16:47*NGC3982 tries.
16:47<Zuu>I'v not played much with UKRS2. Mostly UKRS
16:48<Zuu>That said the average AI on bananas may not support rails at all. Only a subset of all AIs support rail.
16:49<@planetmaker>good rail support comes at a premium. As a figure of speach
16:49<@planetmaker>Not many do a good job there
16:50<NGC3982>I see
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16:59<NGC3982>The AIAI AI worked FIRS out like a charm.
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17:06<Samu>got it - no more IE10 pestering me about Adobe Flash
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17:12<Zuu>NGC3982: The AI work with a list of industry types. It sees which input/output cargos it has. So they more or less work with industries as nodes and has the knowledge which industry outputs cargo compatible with what other industry. They do then not really care if that is a default cargo or a NewGRF cargo.
17:12<Zuu>The things that cause an AI problem is if an industry stops to accept cargo "temporarily" it has no clue why that happened. Some AIs have a mechanism to back off for some time and then if that not helps close down the connection.
17:14<Samu>oh god...
17:14<Zuu>Basically all information that NewGRFs provide as text strings at the bottom of the purchase menu or industry window or in a manual is not available to the AI.
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17:15<Zuu>Gah, they removed the scroll bar. Though it works with arrow keys.
17:16*Zuu hates sites/programs that remove the scroll bar
17:16<Samu>Im autoreplacing everything 1-engine and 2-engine alike to the new 2-engine "right now", not the "when old" - I'm messing up all my trains with an extra wagon - the game doesn't memorize when I told to replace, it just replaces using the latest remove wagon choice
17:17<Samu>what a mess :( I'm sad
17:19<Samu>it's not an extra wagon, it's the game not removing the wagon, sorry
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17:30<@DorpsGek>Commit by fonsinchen :: r25390 trunk/src/saveload/afterload.cpp (2013-06-10 21:30:31 UTC)
17:30<@DorpsGek>-Fix: add missing compatibility settings in afterload.
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17:53<@DorpsGek>Commit by fonsinchen :: r25391 trunk/src/station_cmd.cpp (2013-06-10 21:53:11 UTC)
17:53<@DorpsGek>-Fix: make ChangeShare really aware of INT_MIN
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---Logclosed Tue Jun 11 00:00:59 2013