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#openttd IRC Logs for 2013-06-11

---Logopened Tue Jun 11 00:00:59 2013
00:31<Samu>I'm off to bed - 4th day in a row without midi problems
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01:04<@DorpsGek>Commit by rubidium :: r25392 trunk/bin/ai/regression/regression.txt (2013-06-11 05:04:49 UTC)
01:04<@DorpsGek>-Fix (r25390): update regression to account for the compatability settings
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02:13<Supercheese>Guess there's no chance of a YACD-esque option if cargodist has now hit trunk
02:14<@planetmaker>that guess is supposedly wrong. But it is more difficult
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02:31<@peter1138>Supercheese, realistically, nobody was working on YACD anyway
02:32<Supercheese>Yeah, that's true
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02:34<@peter1138>And also, we now have more active developers \o/
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03:26<Supercheese>Go to fishing grounds (autorefit to fish), go to fishing harbor (autorefit to food), go to city docks (autorefit to passengers)
03:27<Supercheese>it's funniest to do with the paddle steamer ocean liners
03:29<Supercheese>I always imagine the staterooms being hastily converted to bulk fish storage and back again
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04:05<@planetmaker>fish simply is stacked in fish boxes... :-)
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07:59<@peter1138>hmm, i can't get awk regexp NOT matching to work :S
08:00<@peter1138>and as i say that, i figure it out lol
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08:20<TrueBrain>you should say those things moe often :D
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11:43<@Rubidium>Eddi|zuHause: but only if they know for certain (51% confidence) that you foreign, they may look at it
11:44<Eddi|zuHause>Rubidium: but they have no effective measure to control that restrictions with out-of-house contract workers
11:45<@Rubidium>but I reckon google et all have more than 645 million users
11:45<@Rubidium>so, getting a user by random means it's more likely to be a foreigner than American
11:46<@Rubidium>thus getting to the 51% confidence level
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12:16-!-V453000 is "Vaclav Benc" on #openttd @+#openttdcoop @+#openttdcoop.stable #openttdcoop.pixel @+#openttdcoop.nightly #openttdcoop.devzone @#nuts
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12:17<V453000>hm did I get kicked or did I accidentally close the channel window at some point? :D
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13:46<@DorpsGek>Commit by translators :: r25393 /trunk/src/lang (9 files) (2013-06-11 17:45:54 UTC)
13:46<@DorpsGek>-Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
13:46<@DorpsGek>dutch - 32 changes by habell
13:46<@DorpsGek>english_AU - 37 changes by mrtux
13:46<@DorpsGek>english_US - 2 changes by Rubidium
13:46<@DorpsGek>german - 2 changes by Jogio
13:46<@DorpsGek>italian - 6 changes by lorenzodv
13:46<@DorpsGek>korean - 1 changes by junho2813
13:46<@DorpsGek>russian - 6 changes by Lone_Wolf
13:46<@DorpsGek>gaelic - 28 changes by GunChleoc
13:46<@DorpsGek>swedish - 3 changes by Zuu
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14:12<frosch123>yay, fs#5596 is awesome :)
14:22<@planetmaker>I don't quite get it?
14:23*NGC3982 likes ice cream.
14:23<@Rubidium>sounds like: mouse in window -> no tile selected -> no cargoes -> reduce window size -> mouse outside of window -> tile selected -> cargoes -> increase window size -> backup to step #1
14:24<@DorpsGek>Commit by frosch :: r25394 /trunk/src (build_vehicle_gui.cpp command.cpp) (2013-06-11 18:24:01 UTC)
14:24<@DorpsGek>-Fix: Restrict renaming engines to the server, just like renaming towns.
14:24<@planetmaker>you'll make one person very unhappy, frosch123 ;-)
14:24<@Rubidium>easy-ish solution would be not reducing the window size
14:25<frosch123>planetmaker: i love the temporal closeness of those two forum threads :)
14:26<ntoskrnl>frosch123: oszilating -> oscillating
14:27<ntoskrnl>also, "making window biggers", and also unclosed parenthesis
14:36<@DorpsGek>Commit by frosch :: r25395 /trunk/src (4 files) (2013-06-11 18:36:26 UTC)
14:36<@DorpsGek>-Fix [FS#5596]: The size of station construction windows could oscillate when resizing the window moved the mouse into the window.
14:36<frosch123>i had a hard time to not make the same typo again
14:36<frosch123>i hope i made at least a different one :)
14:44<zooks>that was a quick fix for fs#5596! I submitted that only an hour ago :)
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14:44<frosch123>it was a fun bug :)
14:45<zooks>hard to describe though
14:45<@planetmaker>though I was like "what?!" when I read it, the description was quite good
14:47<zooks>Im still crashing constantly on fs#5567, I see there's a fix posted there as well. I'll try that..
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15:00<Eddi|zuHause>so, when will r25394 cause a thread like "i used to be able to rename vehicles, enable that again"
15:02<V453000>wtf you cant rename vehicles anymore? :d
15:02<Eddi|zuHause>well, you can, if you are the server :p
15:02<ZxBiohazardZx>is it possible to sort industries by type AND production?
15:03<ZxBiohazardZx>(i see option for type and for production, but no AND :P)
15:03<V453000>you give too much shit about production
15:04<frosch123>Eddi|zuHause: you can still rename vehicles :p
15:04<frosch123>just not engines
15:08<@peter1138>i always wondered about fixing that...
15:09<frosch123>did you wonder about pondering, or ponder about wondering?
15:13<V453000>@stage building
15:13<frosch123>where is the right place to suggest the german government to follow greece's great example and disband public broadcasting?
15:15<@planetmaker>ah... of course :-)
15:17<V453000>cargodist game on publicserver ... if anyone was interested
15:18<Eddi|zuHause>that's probably the wrong place, because public broadcasting is "Ländersache"
15:20<Eddi|zuHause>i would have assumed cargodist is "bad" :p
15:20<@planetmaker>no, you wouldn't :-P
15:21<frosch123>Eddi|zuHause: maybe he takes a unicorn to ride to the prozone
15:21<Eddi|zuHause>i mean, if i like something, V453000 must automatically hate it :p
15:21<V453000>it is Eddi :)
15:22<@Rubidium>so no V453000 at the party?
15:23<V453000>I will be at the next party :) I will let them figure out what is going on for now, plus I have my own playground now
15:23<@planetmaker>V453000, we plan to have it somewhen in July or August weekends. Same place as before
15:23<V453000>oh that party
15:23<@planetmaker>I meant to post... but I need to figure out which of the August weekends I have time
15:24<@planetmaker>that party, yes :-P
15:24<V453000>ooh :)
15:25<V453000>what is that, r25383 party? :D
15:25<@planetmaker>something like that ;-)
15:26<frosch123> <- which one to bake?
15:26<@planetmaker>:-O !!!
15:27<@planetmaker>in order to create some you definitely have to be in harmony with your feminine side
15:28<@Rubidium>V453000: no, it's all about 4k
15:28<V453000>I wonder what that means
15:29<@Rubidium>it's, ofcourse, the number of strings
15:29<@Rubidium>(per language)
15:31<@planetmaker>hehe... currently is a good test how often translators check :-)
15:31<@planetmaker>not many 100% languages
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15:32<@planetmaker>even __ln__ is slacking
15:32<@planetmaker>and Terkhen could also translate the missing two :-)
15:33<@planetmaker>and Swedish misses 21...
15:34<fonsinchen>yeah, unicorn cake. I'll bring one.
15:34<@planetmaker>not difficult to make a more impressive cake than I fabricated last time
15:34<Eddi|zuHause>fonsinchen: poor alonso!
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15:35<@planetmaker>luckily not a unicorn as the picture shows
15:35<fonsinchen>I'll steal one from nethack.
15:36<fonsinchen>Everyone will get teleportitis then.
15:37<@Terkhen>planetmaker: thanks for the reminder :)
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15:44<V453000>cargodistQ: if you dont provide any other path than A->drop, industry A will never want other drop?
15:45<@Rubidium>V453000: true, *if* you use a no-load order at the drop
15:45<V453000>so in a cargo game why would I use cargodist even when it is on? :d
15:45<@Rubidium>otherwise stuff might go somewhere else, but only if there is a route from drop to another drop
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15:46<fonsinchen>How would a loading order make it select an unreachable destination?
15:46<Eddi|zuHause>V453000: it makes feeder services and load balancing easier
15:46<V453000>but even feeder->A->drop wont X want drop Y ?
15:46<__ln__>whatwhat, i'm not involved with ottd translations since about 2007.
15:47<frosch123>__ln__: see, that's what we complained about
15:47<fonsinchen>Where is X and where is Y?
15:47<V453000>doesnt matter, somewhere on the network
15:47<V453000>trains only go to X with unload and leave empty now
15:47<@Rubidium>V453000: no, cargo is distributed to the reachable stations instead of cargodest where cargo is given a destination
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15:48<V453000>so it basically only applies when I drop cargo at multiple places from multiple places
15:48<Eddi|zuHause>maybe that can be implemented on top of cargodist?
15:49<V453000>well this is strange
15:50<Eddi|zuHause>V453000: if you have routes A->X, A->Y and B->Y, and you forget the "no load" orders, it may route stuff B->Y->A->X
15:50<V453000>I know that
15:50<V453000>but why would I do that :d
15:50<V453000>that is really an error
15:50<fonsinchen>To use your trains on the return trip.
15:50<Eddi|zuHause>industries which have a stockpile limit?
15:50<V453000>as cargo would just get transported there and back when the route could be direct
15:50<fonsinchen>Instead of letting them go empty.
15:51<V453000>stockpile limits are wtf
15:51<V453000>but ok that is an option
15:52<V453000>any other? .s
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15:55<fonsinchen>If you don't want cargo to be distributed automatically you can always switch cargodist off for the respective cargo.
15:56<Eddi|zuHause>in FIRS, you may need to serve one source to multiple destinations, because of the output multiplication effects
15:56<V453000>well obviously, I just want to discover by what reasoning should it be used in a normal game
15:56<V453000>mhm yeah it makes FIRS stupidly easy :s
15:56<fonsinchen>If you do want it to be distributed automatically then you have to tolerate things like that. How should it know if you intentionally created that route, e.g. to reuse your trains on the return trip or if it was a mistake?
15:56<Eddi|zuHause>no, it does not, you still have to care about delivery timing :)
15:57<frosch123>do newer svn also produce -p1 patches?
15:57<fonsinchen>A prime example for cargodist is a passenger network.
15:57<V453000>timing is rather easy :P
15:57<fonsinchen>In a lot of cargo games it probably doesn't make much sense.
15:57<Eddi|zuHause>yes, passengers/mail was always the primary inspiration
15:58<V453000>fonsinchen: I mean, I have coal mine 1,2,3 going to power plant A. I also have coal mines 4,5,6 going to power plant B. Directly, without anything else, with unload and leave empty orders. Why should I add 1,2 or 3 going to B
15:59<fonsinchen>Coal is probably not so well suited for automatic distribution then.
15:59<V453000>same for any other cargo
15:59<V453000>except passengers or mail as you noted
15:59<fonsinchen>However, depending on the geography A could be a good "in between" stop on the way to B.
16:00<fonsinchen>Then you could run a train from A to B to make more money from the same coal by transporting it further.
16:00<V453000>no, my trains only go directly and with non-stop
16:00<Eddi|zuHause>V453000: food/water
16:00<V453000>lets consider that irrelevant
16:00<fonsinchen>My example is not irrelevant. I've done that a lot.
16:01<Eddi|zuHause>V453000: generally, if the amount of destinations is significantly larger than the amount of sources
16:01<V453000>well that is the same principle as other cargoes Eddi
16:01<fonsinchen>Just look at the map and figure out multi-hop routes instead of just direct ones.
16:01<V453000>well in other words why would I even get power plant B
16:01<fonsinchen>But I agree, with passengers the advantages are easier to see.
16:01<V453000>why not just keep all going to A
16:01<V453000>same for town A eating all food
16:02<Eddi|zuHause>V453000: or having a main line with "mixed" (autorefit) trains, and lots of feeder services
16:02<V453000>autorefit doesnt exist
16:02<fonsinchen>Well, isn't the game about aesthetics, after all.
16:02<Eddi|zuHause>V453000: you want many towns to grow, so all of them require food
16:02<fonsinchen>It's just much nicer to have it deliver half the coal to A and then take the rest to B.
16:02<V453000>well thats true
16:02<fonsinchen>(in my opinion, that is)
16:03<V453000>sure fonsinchen, but then you can easily subsitute coal B for all wod
16:03<V453000>and you can do coal to both A and B without cargodist easier/more conveniently too
16:04<V453000>true, without transfers only
16:04<Eddi|zuHause>V453000: also, two-way transfers like a bank in the town
16:04<V453000>yes, well, like any other drop/pickup cargo as pass/mail/valu
16:05<Eddi|zuHause>V453000: there certainly are playing styles where cargodist has no significant use/effect
16:06<V453000>for passenger games it is interesting, I said and say that I dislike to be told where what goes, but it does have significant additions there
16:06<V453000>for cargo I completely miss any effect
16:07<Eddi|zuHause>sure, when you ignore everything i said, then it has no effect at all
16:07<V453000>I didnt ignore it, it just has no advantage why to do that
16:07<Eddi|zuHause>just because you don't see it, doesn't mean it doesn't exist
16:08<V453000>autorefit really isnt relevant, that only makes all cargoes be one
16:08<V453000>nothing else
16:10<V453000>two-way transfering makes some sense though
16:10<V453000>but requires substituting train junctions for stations
16:12<V453000>symmetric will keep the same distribution over time, right?
16:21<fonsinchen>Symmetric is about sending the same amount of cargo both ways. It makes no sense for cargo.
16:22<fonsinchen>Only passengers, mail and in some cases valuables should be distributed symmetrically
16:23<V453000>hm what am I missing, why doesnt it make sense for cargo?
16:24<Samu>i just saw an helicopter and an aircraft going through each other on a commuter
16:24<V453000>... do I understand it wrongly that every power plant would get equal amount of coal?
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16:30<@Terkhen>good night
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17:08<Samu>oh, I was on TV
17:08<Samu>that's a TV isn't it?
17:09<Eddi|zuHause>that's a blank page
17:10<Samu>gah... puts a c:\fakepath
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17:30<Samu>uploaded from skydrive
17:30<Samu>to imgur
17:30<Samu>lol feature
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17:46<+glx>the string seems totally broken
17:47<+glx>acceptance change instead company or manager name
17:55<Samu>no, that's my company name
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17:59<Samu>FX at 5 GHz... k, meanwhile Intel might announce the first 8-core cpu of theirs for lga 2011, hmmm :(
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18:00<+glx>nice they broke the naming
18:00<+glx>FX-9xxx for an 8 cores cpu
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18:03<Samu>Core i7-3980X
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18:08<Samu>more tech stuff i like - Radeon HD 8000 or 9000 - one of them will integrate x86 cores on them, that was nVidias plan with Maxwell
18:11<Samu>probably ARM for nvidia
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18:35<Samu>can I use Timetable to inform me about the time it took to complete a journey but not impose delays?
18:36<Samu>autofill but do not put 'wait for x days', 'travel for x days' on the orders?
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18:42<Eddi|zuHause>IMHO it should do that automatically...
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18:55<Samu>i am trying to get the best distance between 2 airports with infrastructure costs turned on
18:55<Samu>best distance = best profit
18:55<Eddi|zuHause>good luck with that
18:55<Samu>like AIs do
18:56<Eddi|zuHause>of course it depends on the plane
18:56<Samu>bakewell cotswald lb-3
18:57<Eddi|zuHause>and how much time they spend in the waiting loop
18:58<Samu>max profit a year versus max income each go
18:59<Samu>what is preferible?
18:59<Eddi|zuHause>and i suspect it's the same as without infrastructure costs, just there's a minimum distance where it gets unprofitable
19:00<Eddi|zuHause>profit per year, obviously
19:02<Samu>some players have
19:03<Samu>a station in 1 corner of the map, and the other one at the opposite corner
19:03<Samu>they don't profit for more than a year, but when they do, they win major!!
19:04<Samu>then they just make copies of the same
19:10<Samu>is there a cargo calculator somewhere? an excel file? a web site?
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19:26<Samu>i'm even more confused, why did i look at this :p
19:28<Eddi|zuHause>use the canonical documentation
19:28<Eddi|zuHause>... lukw
19:28<Eddi|zuHause>... luke
19:37<Samu>im building an excel chart
19:38<Samu>i just want to input coordinates for 2 stations, select cargo type and it gives me results
19:39<Samu>i can then sort by average profit a year
19:39<Eddi|zuHause>"canonical documentation" is jargon for "source code"
19:40<Samu>it should tell me what's the best 'time in transit'
19:40<Eddi|zuHause>it should tell you the formulas used for calculating the income
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20:00<Samu>hmm :( i don't know how to calculate tiles per day
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20:11<Samu>I give up
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20:28<Eddi|zuHause>speed: every tick the current speed (in km/h-ish is added to a "progress" variable (sometimes that is magically done multiple times per tick). if that "progress" variable overflows at 256, the vehicle advances one step
20:29<Eddi|zuHause>there are 74 ticks per day
20:29<Eddi|zuHause>and 16 steps per tile
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23:32<VidTheKid>i just posted a feature request comment maybe?
23:33<VidTheKid>it's pretty simple... just a mod to signal construction gui to only show contemporary signal types
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---Logclosed Wed Jun 12 00:00:00 2013