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#openttd IRC Logs for 2013-06-16

---Logopened Sun Jun 16 00:00:07 2013
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03:36<Wolf01>hello :D
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03:38-!-mode/#openttd [+o Alberth] by ChanServ
03:39<Wolf01>hello Alberth :D
03:39<@Alberth>oh, an early wolf :)
03:40<Wolf01>yes, somebody left the alarm clock active :P
03:41<@Alberth>A few weeks ago I bought one that knows it's weekend, works very nicely
03:43<@Alberth>do you happen to know how to do multi-cargo cdist transport?
03:43<Wolf01>but my sister works on weekends, this time she simply forgot to turn of the alarm
03:44<@Alberth>I had a try yesterday, but it somewhat ended in a big mess
03:44<Wolf01>no, I didn't try the latest releases yet, I'm stuck with the 1.3
03:45<@Alberth>hmm, yeah, sisters with weekend-working schedules would be a problem indeed
03:47<Wolf01>I don't know if it was already asked, but it would be difficult to have OTTD on steam?
03:48<Wolf01>(searching for "steam" in a train related forum is really gratifying)
03:48<@Alberth>no idea, I remember some discussion about it, it's not already there?
03:50<@Alberth>you should ask T3rkhen about it when he wakes up
03:51<TWerkhoven> and
03:51<Wolf01>oh, ok, found it, Mr.Rb already answered the big question
03:54<@Alberth>he's good at jumping to the core of problems :)
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03:58<@Alberth>One thing you can do is to check the current license requirements, these discussions seem a few years old, and steam has moved into linux as well, where similar problems are more likely to happen. Perhaps they changed the requirements in our favour
04:05<Wolf01>I think the only place it could belong to is the greenlight drafts :/
04:07<Wolf01> this looks nice, I would like to know if it's only a train-oriented-CitiesXL or it really does allow the full flexibility of TT games
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04:15<@Terkhen>good morning
04:15<@Alberth>"Train Fever is a railroad-focused business simulation game.." doesn't sound promising
04:15<Wolf01>hello Terkhen
04:16<Wolf01>uh, development snapshot of base graphics? what kind of sorcery?
04:18<@Alberth> <-- Wolf01
04:21<@Alberth>most lilkely story book icons :)
04:21<Wolf01>yes, I read on the game's discussion (there is a topic like "how close to OTTD would be this game") :P
04:22<Wolf01>gah... I generated a toyland map
04:22<@Rubidium>Wolf01: as close as earth is to the sun
04:23<Wolf01>nice, it started the tutorial, it tells me to build an airport... the button is greyed ahahah
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04:33<fonsinchen>Alberth, what is the problem with "multi-cargo cdist transport"? Can I get an example?
04:34<@Alberth>it is not a problem, it's a challenge :)
04:35<@Alberth>I would like to move several cargoes map-wide across a transport back-bone
04:36<@Alberth>but I am struggling with how to organize trains and stations
04:36<Wolf01>which is the best grf config for cdist?
04:36<@Alberth>my autosaves of yesterday were a first attempt
04:37<@Alberth>Wolf01: like there is only one optimal config :D
04:38<@Alberth>Wolf01: but since you're asking: nuts / fish / opengfx+ ? :)
04:38<Wolf01>I always played with ECS, but now I want to change a bit :P
04:39<@Alberth>firs with basic economies is nice too
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04:40<@Alberth>fonsinchen: assuming I am not the first person to try that, I am looking for some prior art :)
04:40<lantizia>Hey is there a *mode* I can activate which makes OpenTTD work/act like TTDLX as much as possible? (i.e. disable all original features)
04:40<@Alberth>pax + mail is relatively easy, just one type of trains
04:41<@Alberth>lantizia: you may want to *enable* original features :p
04:41<lantizia>sorry I meant disable all non-original features!
04:42<fonsinchen>It is always easy if you're restricting yourself to few types of cargo, no matter if that is passengers/mail or anything else.
04:42<@Alberth>lantizia: but not sure, I'd say start with an empty config, that should give you a good start
04:42<lantizia>meh - hassle... i'll continue to try and get ttdlx work on wine then
04:43<fonsinchen>What kind of challenges are you facing?
04:43<@Alberth>lantizia: that's easier than removing the openttd.cfg file? :o
04:43<@Rubidium>openttd can't run in TTDLX mode; many things have been improved without an option to remove them
04:43<lantizia>Alberth, i can't be sure removing openttd.cfg will do what i want
04:43<@Rubidium>(such as autorail/autoroad, autoscaling user interface, ...)
04:45<@Alberth>fonsinchen: mostly I fail to understand how to handle the diversity of trains. some will just bring cargo from local industry, others only take cargo, back-bone trains will both bring and take
04:45<@Alberth>what kind of station design would be useful for this? how do you ensure it doesn't deadlock?
04:46<fonsinchen>How is that different from a non-cargodist game?
04:47<@Alberth>that is more from end-to-end, possibly over a shared infra structure
04:47<fonsinchen>I guess your problem is the difficulty of separating pickup from dropoff stations?
04:47<@Alberth>I never tried this kind of thing in a non-cd setting, as it makes less sense in that setup
04:48<@Alberth>is that 2 stations?
04:49<@Alberth>if it is, you get the problem of moving cargo from dropoff to pickup
04:49<fonsinchen>Some people prefer to have different stations for picking up and dropping off cargo and that's harder to do with cargodist because the roles of trains can be mixed. I'm just guessing.
04:50<fonsinchen>Anyway, the openttdcoop people have discovered that you can easily use stations instead of junctions with cargodist
04:50<@Alberth>if it is not, you have the problem that back-bone trains first visit dropoff and then pickup, so you have the same station under each other in the order list
04:51<fonsinchen>What you can do is have a ring-like backbone which doesn't actually touch any pickup or dropoff stations, but has transfer stations all over the place
04:51<fonsinchen>Then you can have feeder services connected to those transfer stations.
04:52<fonsinchen>The feeders can be split by pickup and dropoff if you like.
04:52<@Alberth>ah good point, the backbone can do transfer from dropoff to pickup
04:53<@Alberth>must try that! thanks
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05:26<Zuu>Is there a reason other than "noone has implemented it yet" why ctrl+click don't take you to the order destination in the timetable window?
05:28<@Alberth>none comes to mind at this time
05:29<@Alberth>having a seperate time table doesn't really work nicely imho
05:30<@Alberth>but that is "re-design of the order window" :)
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05:36<Eddi|zuHause>hm, i think i have to revise my party date vote
05:37<Eddi|zuHause>but not entirely sure yet, how
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05:41<Wolf01>ahah, linked 2 routes with a hub: explosion of destinations!
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05:46<Zuu>I had a though yesterday about possible revisit PAXLink and make it remove the order modifiers of feeders when cargodist is active.
05:46<Wolf01>I must rethink my play style, no more star shaped routes but more point-to-point with multiple stops in between
05:47<Zuu>Oh, last PAXLink release was in Feb 2010 :-)
05:48<Zuu>I find that using timetables has become much more important.
05:49<Zuu>With full load orders, that keeps trains somewhat separated. When you stop using that, you need something else to not have them bunch up
05:51<Wolf01>too bad I never understood how to use timetables, I only use them to know when vehicles are running late
05:52<Zuu>1. Autofill. 2. Add slack 3. Ctrl+click on set start date
05:52<Wolf01>that magic key...
05:52<Zuu>Without slack, vehicles will not be able to recover a delay.
05:53<Zuu>Ctrl+click on set start date will set the start date for all vehicles with shared orders evenly distributed.
05:54<Wolf01>the bad thing is that I widely use conditional orders, and they seem to not run very well with timetables
05:54<Zuu>More and more, I variate my slack and add more to end stations or locations where the trains/buses are not so much in the way.
05:56<Wolf01>and about conditional orders, is there a way to create sub-routines, I mean
05:56<Wolf01>1. go to A, 2. go to B, 3. if (foo) go to 10, 4. go to C, 5. go to D, 6 if (foo) go to 10, 7.... 10 go to nearest depot, 11. return to call point
06:00<Zuu>No. I have only losely voiced ideas about partial order lists. In my mind those were attached ot eg a waypoint and if you assign a vehicle to visit that waypoint it will inline that partial order list in the orders.
06:00<Zuu>However, I doubt that I will want it enough to spend time implementing it.
06:03<@Alberth>program orders in squirrel :p
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06:15<Eddi|zuHause>Zuu: there is a routes patch
06:16<Eddi|zuHause>i never got to actually try it, though
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06:19<Wolf01>look, a frosch123!
06:21<frosch123>quak :)
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06:35<Wolf01>how do I un-share the orders for a vehicle? I forgot hot to OTTD...
06:35<frosch123>click the line that says "shared"
06:35<Wolf01>oh yes, it was there :D
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06:44<Wolf01>I think I must turn off the PC, my UPS is telling me there is no power
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06:49<Eddi|zuHause>didn't Wolf have some totally weird power provider that just shuts down when you use more than X kWh?
06:53<frosch123>kW or kWh?
06:54<frosch123>most power providers shut down when you exceed some level of kW :p
06:54<Eddi|zuHause>yes, i meant kWh
06:59<+michi_cc>frosch123: I'd think your main fuse will shut you down even earlier than that :)
07:00<frosch123>yeah, but isn't that one already owned by the power provider?
07:01<Eddi|zuHause>i don't think so
07:09<frosch123>why would ssh use a udp port?
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07:11<Eddi|zuHause>for a backdoor :)
07:13<Steffl_>Hi, i'm here again. Ähm Frosch?
07:13<Steffl_>I messed something up again I think
07:14<frosch123>i am doing that all day
07:14<Steffl_>I tried to upload new version of RoadRunner AI with little changes but with same version number
07:15<Steffl_>it worked to upload but ingame it don't work
07:15<Steffl_>hi frosch :-)
07:15<Steffl_>you can try ingame to download roadrunner ai
07:15<frosch123>well, if you do not change the version number, then ingame cannot distinguish them
07:15<Steffl_>it doesn't finish
07:16<frosch123>it will pick whatever it finds first
07:16<frosch123>so, either remove your old version from yout local disk
07:16<Steffl_>and it downloads the older instead the newer..
07:16<frosch123>or increment the version number and put it on bananas
07:16<Steffl_>hmm it's no problem to make a version with a version number one higher
07:16<frosch123>oh, you mean you entered the same version number in the banans form?
07:17<frosch123>it should not allow that :p
07:17<Steffl_>but try it ingame
07:17<Steffl_>ah hmm..
07:17<Steffl_>i sayed i made a mess and all my fault :-)
07:18<Steffl_>but i need to make same changes because in fact the AI crashed on old versions before
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07:46<Steffl_>Hey, now it finishes download
07:48<frosch123>tb did some magic, no idea which, but likely black
07:48<Steffl_>yeah, all ok now
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07:56<@Alberth>wb Wolf
07:57<Wolf01>electricity does not like water :D
07:58<@Alberth>I talked to it, but apparently that did not work :)
08:00<Wolf01>I talked to whom put water on electricity, and didn't work too
08:03<Zuu>Steffl_: Just increment the version number. Version numbers are cheap :-)
08:07<zooks>wrt timetables, many times I only set a wait time of 10 days on the first station without filling the rest of the timetable
08:07<zooks>this keeps things more or less separate
08:08<Steffl_>ok Zuu. And upload again? You can download it now successfully, I tried it
08:09<@Alberth>assuming the first station has a single platform?
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08:09<@Alberth>Steffl_: it was fixed by TB
08:10<Steffl_>yeah thanks xD
08:11<Steffl_>if it works now I don't upload with a new version number
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08:18<Wolf01>nice, now I understand how to set a default size for windows, but how do I revert to default default?
08:18<Brumi>maybe you delete windows.cfg?
08:18<Brumi>haven't tried that
08:19<Brumi>or only delete the appropriate section
08:19<@Alberth>or set it to a size that looks ok :p
08:20<Wolf01>I did it so... next time I should not click buttons I don't know what they do
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08:21<@Alberth>edit windows.cfg set sticky to false, and the width/height to 0
08:22<@Alberth>or remoce the entire file, if you want to revert to default everywhere :)
08:23<frosch123>Wolf01: if you do not click the buttons, how will you figure out what they do?
08:25<Wolf01>like last time on borderlands 2 with my friends "wait, there is a button there" click! enemies, enemies everywhere
08:25<Steffl_>wow 1.0.0 is much faster in fast forward then 1.3
08:26<frosch123>haha, i doubt the ottd version matters .p
08:26<frosch123>rather the amount of ais you have started :)
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08:27<Steffl_>it's on start of a new game, days count much faster xD
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08:57<Steffl_>What do you think of an AI plays in the same company than the player and builds bus shuttles to the players train stations
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08:58<Steffl_>building a bus shuttle is very boring I think
08:58<Steffl_>so let it do an AI
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09:01<@Alberth>good way to cheat in MP
09:01<Wolf01>an helping hand could be a good idea, but it can also be a trouble
09:02<@Alberth>you can do it though, run a MP game, and join the company of the AI
09:02<Steffl_>yeah it has to be very good programmed or it would be more annoying then helpful
09:02<Steffl_>no thats not what I thougt of
09:04<Steffl_>i often build busshuttle from a town to my train station
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09:04<Steffl_>but it's much work to manage
09:04<Steffl_>an AI which makes only this....
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09:08<Zuu>I started (and stopped) writing a GS that was able to regulate the amount of vehicles for a point to point connection.
09:11<Steffl_>hmm, I don't know much about GS, but maybe it's possible with a GS
09:12<Zuu>It is not inteded that GSes should be used for that.
09:12<Zuu>GSes shouldn't manipulate company stuff.
09:13<Steffl_>It would be no real AI and no real GS
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13:46<@DorpsGek>Commit by translators :: r25420 /trunk/src/lang (9 files) (2013-06-16 17:45:49 UTC)
13:46<@DorpsGek>-Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
13:46<@DorpsGek>traditional_chinese - 54 changes by siu238X
13:46<@DorpsGek>estonian - 16 changes by KSiimson
13:46<@DorpsGek>galician - 34 changes by Michi
13:46<@DorpsGek>german - 2 changes by planetmaker
13:46<@DorpsGek>hungarian - 2 changes by Brumi
13:46<@DorpsGek>italian - 2 changes by lorenzodv
13:46<@DorpsGek>russian - 4 changes by Lone_Wolf
13:46<@DorpsGek>thai - 546 changes by nirakanz
13:46<@DorpsGek>turkish - 42 changes by wakeup
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15:30<Samu>I have an update about the whole audio thing, I posted there:
15:31<Samu>if anyone cares to read
15:31<@Alberth>add it to the issue at the tracker, so it doesn't get lost
15:34<@Alberth>that is, until that site decide to delete the discussion :p
15:41<Samu>for this week I'm trying OpenMSX music pack
15:42<Samu>original_windows passed
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15:50<Samu>i think the task is closed
15:50<Samu>but there it is
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15:53<@Alberth>oh indeed. Well, thank you for posting it anyway, when we encounter the same situation again we can find it again
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16:16<@Terkhen>good night
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---Logclosed Mon Jun 17 00:00:09 2013