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#openttd IRC Logs for 2013-06-18

---Logopened Tue Jun 18 00:00:10 2013
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01:22<Jomann>so am I the first here who asks why openttd.org is down? :)
01:25<Jomann>and server search too :(
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01:49<LordAro|Phone>Jomann: you are the first (I was reading the logs)
01:49<Jomann>k, just wondered noone else reported it
01:50<LordAro|Phone>Probably only recently went offline
01:50<LordAro|Phone>TrueBrain, Rubidium: Server(s) seem to be down
01:53<Jomann>:)
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02:15<@planetmaker>confirmed
02:16<@planetmaker>good morning also
02:16<Supercheese>or perhaps a stressful morning, if you're the sysadmin
02:17<@planetmaker>hm, it replies to ping but not ssh
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02:29<@Terkhen>good morning
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02:46<Jomann>hi
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04:06<@planetmaker>Jomann, all services should be up again
04:06<@planetmaker>thanks for the notification as well
04:12<NGC3982>Seriosly, that Xbox One thing is quite the poop deck.
04:16<Jomann>yeah thank you planetmaker
04:20<Jomann>I wanted to test some high traffic junctions and lines... but without wiki :/
04:23<Jomann>at which year is monorail time?
04:26<Jomann>wow, this chat seems to be read as ingame chat ;)
04:28<Xaroth|Work>2000-something
04:29<Xaroth|Work>and not everybody is looking at this all the time
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04:29<Jomann>jo
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05:14<@peter1138>hmm, to make white labels on some black key caps, should i use paper or tippex?
05:15<@peter1138>i don't have a white pen :(
05:18<NGC3982>Paper.
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05:25<se5a>so I've got a train going round a circular track, but it doesnt seem to be collecting anything
05:26<se5a>I did have a train going around the same track before and it was working
05:26<se5a>then I added another train, but they crashed
05:26<se5a>so after the pileup was cleaned up I re-added one train
05:26<se5a>but it's just not
05:26<se5a>collecting stuff
05:27<se5a>the stations are all three tiles long, the train is 4 carages+ enging
05:27<se5a>engine
05:27<se5a>I did extend some stations thinking that might be the reason
05:27<se5a>but no
05:32<Pinkbeast>se5a: The space bar and Enter are not interchangeable. Does it have orders to stop? To pick up cargo?
05:33<se5a>yes
05:34<se5a>it has goto orders for each of the stations around the loop
05:36<Pinkbeast>And loading orders? Is it refitted to carry the right cargo?
05:37<se5a>loading orders are just the default, and yes it's got the right carrages
05:38<Pinkbeast>But are they refitted to carry the right cargo?
05:38<Pinkbeast>Try adding an explicit load order where you expect it to load.
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06:45<NGC3982>Uhm
06:45<NGC3982>When trying to duplicate a train, i get "Train too long"
06:45<NGC3982>With an allready existing train
06:45<NGC3982>No configuration changes has been made.
06:47<NGC3982>Oh, ok?
06:48<NGC3982>The size of the Flatcar in NARS simply changed.
06:48<@planetmaker>:-)
06:48<@planetmaker>nasty
06:48<NGC3982>http://i.imgur.com/WywOXtF.png
06:48<@planetmaker>and unexpected. Should be a new wagon then
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06:49<NGC3982>Yes
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09:47<@Belugas>hello
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10:08<Mornington>!password
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10:18<Eddi|zuHause>that was the test whether glx is here?
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10:43-!-DanMacK [DanMacK@node-11508.tor.pppoe.execulink.com] has joined #openttd
10:43<DanMacK>Hey all
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11:42<@planetmaker>good evening
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11:47<Eddi|zuHause>warm evening
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13:31<@Alberth>o/
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13:37<Wolf01>hi hi
13:38<@Alberth>o/ Wolf01
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15:01<HolyDragoon>Hello... let me check if I get this right.
15:01<@Alberth>hi
15:01<HolyDragoon>To keep extracting industries going, I must spam them with transports?
15:02<@Alberth>that delays the closure
15:03<HolyDragoon>Hmmm... makes sense, but doesn't make sense at the same time. I guess it's a matter of investment/upkeep vs. total income from the hauls.
15:03<@Alberth>production fluctuates randomly, but with a negative trend for extractive industries (ie to simulate them running out of stuff to extract)
15:03<@planetmaker>eh... Alberth mines never close, if served well
15:03<@planetmaker>only temperate oil wells close
15:03<@planetmaker>(assuming default industries)
15:03<HolyDragoon>That explains the 500+ ton coal mine, then.
15:04*Alberth stands corrected
15:04<@planetmaker>you described ecs behaviour, Alberth ;-)
15:04<@planetmaker>or pbi
15:04<HolyDragoon>ECS... is that the GRF that makes everything... twice as complex?
15:05<@Alberth>good, now I can fake to believe HolyDragoon was talking about another industry set :p
15:05<@Alberth>HolyDragoon: depends on your point of view, others find it twice as much of a challenge :)
15:05<HolyDragoon>I check mods around, but I must admit that after all this time, the only thing I'm good at is passenger transports... and even that is doubtful.
15:06<HolyDragoon>True, I haven't got the hang of it. Probably worth another peek, though.
15:06<@Alberth>you may want to try FIRS too
15:06<Supercheese>FIRS is awesome
15:06*HolyDragoon takes notes.
15:07<@Alberth>recommended to begin with a basic economy, or you'll drown in the number of industries and connections
15:08<@planetmaker>yeah. If you're new, don't yet start with changing industries. Use industry NewGRFs when you want something new after you know the default ones
15:08<@Alberth>or if you want a slightly changed but not too different industry set, opengfx+industries
15:08<HolyDragoon>I got the hang of the chains, is just on the transport part that I kind of suck.
15:09<@planetmaker>yeah... opengfx+industries allow to arbitrarily select chains from all climates
15:09<@Alberth>you could post a savegame of an attempt and ask for feedback about problems you experience
15:11<@Alberth>planetmaker: including toyland? :o
15:11<@Alberth>toyland industries in temperate might be fun :)
15:12<HolyDragoon>Oh, toyland.
15:12<HolyDragoon>My biggst grip with it is the range of useable stuff.
15:13<@Alberth>planetmaker: last weekend I discovered the alpine climate in opengfx+landscape, much better than the grey/brownish default opengfx ground tile set
15:13<@Alberth>HolyDragoon: "usable stuff" ?
15:13<HolyDragoon>The... uh, does 'Rolling Stock' describe it accurately?
15:14<@Alberth>if you mean the vehicles, yes it does :)
15:14<juzza1>i noticed the alpine too recently... before that i tried to use blunck's ancient alpine newgrf with bad results :D
15:14<HolyDragoon>Yeah, the vehicles.
15:15<@Alberth>do you care for realism, or do you just want a good set of vehicles so you can build without worrying too much about the vehicles?
15:15<@Alberth>if the latter, I recommend to try NUTS
15:15<HolyDragoon>I'm a bit of a train person, so I don't mind too much about few cars, but I like my game with several trams and trains.
15:16<HolyDragoon>I find the Dutch Tram Set very cool for that, it's a bit of a change form the vanilla ones.
15:16<HolyDragoon>*from
15:17<@Alberth>http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/nuts/wiki
15:17<@planetmaker>Alberth, indeed, toyland chains are not mixed in opengfx+industries yet
15:17<@planetmaker>I guess that's a missing feature really
15:17<@planetmaker>And I'm happy that you like the alpine climate :-)
15:18<HolyDragoon>Oh, that looks nice, thanks!
15:18<@planetmaker>Alberth, I assume you played with a recent head version of opengfx+landscape. Any... issues?
15:19<@planetmaker>If I don't get to give it a more thorough spin soon, I'll simply tag head as 1.0.0 and release it ;-)
15:20<@planetmaker>not before next Tuesday, though
15:20<@Alberth>other than a big lack of useful version indication in random downloaded opengfx+landscapes? :)
15:20<@planetmaker>:-)
15:20<__ln__>http://www.vintage-computer.com/vcforum/showthread.php?37827-Greetings-from-GE-Canada
15:20<@planetmaker>I probably should name the files inside the tar
15:20<@Alberth>nope, no issues as far I can remember
15:21<@Alberth>the directory would be my preference
15:21<@Alberth>ie then you can do "unzip -x landscape.zip"
15:22<@Alberth>if only you could have two "landscape.zip" files in one directory :p
15:22<@planetmaker>you mean untar?
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15:24<@Alberth> ogfx-landscape.tar.zip <-- apparently, unzip :)
15:25<@Alberth>I don't unpack tar files if possible
15:25<@Alberth>hi Zuu
15:26<@planetmaker>ok, indeed there's no reason to do so
15:27<@planetmaker>ok... so... maybe the zip should simply contain a dir wherein the tar resides
15:27<@planetmaker>that would suffice, right?
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15:28<@planetmaker>it would also suit me... as I usually build only bundle_tar during development... and that could still all be the same. Which then allows a simple "reload_newgrfs"
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15:28<@planetmaker>(I know, not a good reason really)
15:28<Zuu>Hello Alberth
15:28<@planetmaker>hello Zuu
15:35<Ristovski>planetmaker: who the hell uses tar.zip
15:37<@planetmaker>http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/ogfx-landscape/nightlies/LATEST/
15:37<@planetmaker>^ I do :-P
15:38<@planetmaker>.zip doesn't confuse windows people
15:38<@planetmaker>and .tar needs no unpacking for openttd
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15:42<@Alberth>the zip has a dir around the tar? I'd prefer without that
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15:42<@planetmaker>so no directory which is unzipped? Hm
15:43<@planetmaker>so a named tar filename... hm...
15:43<@Alberth>what about a date instead of a revision?
15:44<@planetmaker>well. Then better revision. The only reason I do use same filenames is that it's overwritten upon rebuild - without need to clean :-)
15:44<@planetmaker>thus the behaviour is mostly a result of my lazyness
15:46<@planetmaker>as openttd reloads the newgrf from the same file when you use "reload_newgrfs"
15:46<@Alberth>just (re)generate a link with a fixed name in a search directory at the end of the build?
15:46<@planetmaker>thus for the ease of development that's... VERY helpful
15:46<Supercheese>Unless yer on Windows :(
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15:48<@Alberth>or more naughty, a rename of the directory ;)
15:49<@planetmaker>well. the cleanest solution likely would simply be like ogfx-landscape-r212.tar, right?
15:51<@DorpsGek>Commit by translators :: r25425 /trunk/src/lang (5 files) (2013-06-18 17:45:30 UTC)
15:51<@DorpsGek>-Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
15:51<@DorpsGek>simplified_chinese - 50 changes by siu238X, ww9980
15:51<@DorpsGek>traditional_chinese - 7 changes by siu238X
15:51<@DorpsGek>croatian - 32 changes by VoyagerOne
15:51<@DorpsGek>english_AU - 2 changes by mrtux
15:51<@DorpsGek>german - 9 changes by Jogio
15:51<@DorpsGek>Commit by fonsinchen :: r25426 trunk/src/station_gui.cpp (2013-06-18 19:32:58 UTC)
15:51<@DorpsGek>-Fix: highlight the right entry in the sorting selector in station view window
15:55<@Alberth>I'd like that, but it may break with evolve
15:56<@planetmaker>with evolve?
15:56<@Alberth>revisions are starting to become meaningless :)
15:56<@planetmaker>oh. yes. they are
15:57<@planetmaker>ogfx-landscape-135:9b89d8a8cfcb.tar :-P
15:57<@Alberth>s/135:// then :)
15:58<@Alberth>although... it gives a hint of order :p
15:58<@planetmaker>yeah, that was the reasoning behind
15:58<@planetmaker>but... looks quite ... hm, ugly
15:59<frosch123>Alberth: nice explanation of the banking crisis
16:00<@Alberth>if all crisises with banks were that simple... :)
16:00<Zuu>planetmaker: Not to mention that a colon in the name is problematic in windows (assuming you are going to publish that file)
16:00<HolyDragoon>Oh, there's an active translator? nice.
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16:02<frosch123>Alberth: they were too afraid to close down the company, so they just kept pulling interest
16:03<Zuu>HolyDragoon: Yes 'translators' is quite active: http://www.ohloh.net/p/openttd/contributors
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16:04<HolyDragoon>Strange, FF keeps saying it can't find the server.
16:05<Zuu>I had to press ctrl+R for it to show
16:05<@planetmaker>seems down, yes
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16:31<Ristovski>planetmaker: hmm, the no data from server for X seconds dialog is annoying, since for the every new second, the dialog reopens with the updated value
16:31<Ristovski>instead of just updating the value
16:33<Ristovski>also, doing "refresh server" logs it as connecting and then disconnecting
16:33<@Alberth>planetmaker: is opengfx+landscape supposed to have alpine-ish climate in toyland? version 0.2.3
16:37<@planetmaker>in that version I allowed to use it everywhere I think. I think I changed it only afterwards
16:37<@planetmaker>especially funny in tropical :-)
16:37<@Alberth>alpine desert :p
16:38<@planetmaker>:-)
16:38<NGC3982>http://i.imgur.com/5y2YTr2.png
16:38<NGC3982>THIS.
16:38<NGC3982>Who ever had this idea and went trough with it, shalt' have a thousand kisses.
16:39<@Alberth>thank you :)
16:40<NGC3982>While playing with ECS or FIRS, it makes everything so, so much easier.
16:40<@Alberth>tbh, I got tired of being completely lost with finding industries that produced or consumed some cargo type in FIRS, so I fixed that
16:40<NGC3982>Yeah, exactly.
16:40*NGC3982 huggles
16:41<@Alberth>in fact, FIRS is the sole reason that window exists at all ;)
16:42<V453000>honestly FIRS is very easy to get the hang of as it is very systematical
16:42<V453000>unlike ECS for example
16:42<@Alberth>I don't play enough to see the system in FIRS :)
16:43<Wolf01>'night all
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16:43<@Alberth>although the current decreased rate of changing could make that possible now :)
16:43<Zuu>Lately I tend to get back to mostly playing with the original industries so that I can spend time playing the game rather than figuring out how the industries work.
16:45<@Alberth>yeah, I also play a lot with default industries, or with opengfx+industries which is not too different
16:48<Eddi|zuHause>i haven't actually played in quite a while
16:48<V453000>well, those are also best :P
16:50<Ristovski>Btw guys, is it just it Linux, or does OpenTTD not mute itself when minimized?
16:51<Ristovski>s/it L/in L/
16:51<frosch123>does ottd even notice that it is minimised
16:51<HolyDragoon>Yeah, that.
16:51<frosch123>also, why should it mute if not paused?
16:52<frosch123>i always disable sound in about every game; is it actually common to mute on minimize?
16:52<frosch123>i would not know why it should do that in the firs tplace
16:53<frosch123>sound effect muting makes no sense imo. that stuff is only muted when pausing
16:53<frosch123>and mutnig music makes even less sense
17:01<@Alberth>good night
17:01<Ristovski>frosch123: what if you are just waiting for stuff and are afk
17:01<Ristovski>frosch123: would be nice if you could minimize the window and it would stop the sound
17:01<@Alberth>pause the game?
17:02<frosch123>i would not know why one would wait for stuff in the first place
17:02<Ristovski>Alberth: what if you are waiting for something in-game
17:02<frosch123>what are you wiating for in game?
17:02<Ristovski>maybe money?
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17:02<Ristovski>frosch123: zooming in on a empty area of the map works tho
17:03<Ristovski>since it makes sound for thing only displayed on the screen
17:03<frosch123>if you have to wait for money, you shuold start with a higher loan
17:03<Ristovski>true
17:03<frosch123>leaving a game running unwatched is quite pointless, isn't it?
17:04<frosch123>well, unless you do an ai competition
17:04<Ristovski>^^
17:04<Ristovski>perfect example on why to leave the game running
17:06<MNIM>You could just mute the game through your OS
17:06<Ristovski>MNIM: I don't know a way of doing that on linux
17:07<MNIM>right click the speaker icon, go to sound settings and look for a tab called 'applications'
17:07<MNIM>at least, that's how I do it in my distro
17:08<Ristovski>but I need gnome/mate for that
17:08<Ristovski>I use AwesomeWM
17:08<Ristovski>lemme copy the gnome-sound-applet from my ubuntu VM
17:09<Ristovski>nvm, it's in my repos, and yes, that does work MNIM, but kinda time-wasting
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17:09<frosch123>night
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17:15<Ristovski>there isn't a way to uninstall online content, is there
17:15<Ristovski>(ingame)
17:39<@planetmaker>no
17:40-!-snorre [~snorre@c3D04BF51.dhcp.as2116.net] has joined #openttd
17:40<@planetmaker>but I uninstall myself now from channel monitoring temporarily. good night ;-)
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17:43*NGC3982 notices how pm.exe get's stuck in Norton.
17:46<@Terkhen>good night
17:47<HellTiger_>http://z0r.de/650
17:54<Eddi|zuHause>"If you can read this something went wrong :("
17:55<Eddi|zuHause>yes, you didn't consider someone disabling javascript, you fuckwits
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---Logclosed Wed Jun 19 00:00:12 2013