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#openttd IRC Logs for 2013-06-22

---Logopened Sat Jun 22 00:00:16 2013
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02:09<@Terkhen>good morning
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02:29<GriffinOneTwo>How do you access the measurement tool?
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03:45<@DorpsGek>Commit by rubidium :: r25432 trunk/src/station_gui.cpp (2013-06-22 07:44:59 UTC)
03:45<@DorpsGek>-Fix [FS#5608]: clang compiler error; sometimes it's more strict than others
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03:48<@planetmaker>what a nice bug. Good morning
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03:57<Rubidium>yay... another lovely OS X bug. This one might be a pretty big nail, as it implies that our current compiler miscompiles the code
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04:15<andythenorth> Nobody uses os x anyway
04:15<Supercheese>This Nobody fellow, he gets around and does a great many things... ;)
04:16<andythenorth>I am the only known os x user, and I'm not playing any more
04:16<andythenorth>^ some of this may be lies
04:17<@planetmaker>so... shouldn't it always crash if it's a compiler error and people do the same thing, Rubidium ?
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04:24<@planetmaker>also, when I self-compile and link to another SDK, the code being used and being compiled is different than the one on our CF
04:27<@peter1138>Amusing that we have developers using OS X but no OS X developer ;p
04:29<Rubidium>planetmaker: not necessarily; the OS can create some sort of different state
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04:30<Rubidium>e.g. a different exception handling library
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05:06<@planetmaker>hallo LordAro
05:08<LordAro>hi planetmaker
05:12<@planetmaker>LordAro, you mentioned an existing patch for newgrf airports... are you sure that what you think of isn't already in trunk?
05:14<LordAro>i just replied ;)
05:16<LordAro>wait, i never pressed submit, tr now :)
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05:17<andythenorth>Is it time to start a GS?
05:17*andythenorth ponders
05:18<@planetmaker>LordAro, yes, that's what came to my mind, too. I looked through it... are you sure that it implements really (much) more than currently in trunk?
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05:19<@planetmaker>I only read over commits (which are burried deep inside it), but... it looked pretty much like what we already have
05:20<@planetmaker>maybe I missed the interesting ones... I only used a web browser to look through
05:21<LordAro>i've always assumed it does, as there are no newgrf airports yet (not counting rotations)
05:21<@planetmaker>you can define new airports. you can define alternative tile layouts.
05:22<@planetmaker>Only thing - and granted, one of the most interesting ones - which does not work is new movement patterns
05:22<@planetmaker>as w/o those you can't really make different ones
05:22<@planetmaker>I can add tiles to the layout. I can leave out those which are not used by planes...
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05:23<@Alberth>the airport.hg had some problems afaik
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05:23<LordAro>hai Alberth
05:24<@planetmaker>yes, if it was 'done' it would be trunked :-)
05:24<@Alberth>one I remember was the distinction between taxiing and flying at altitude 0
05:24<@planetmaker>you're right
05:24<@planetmaker>I wonder whether that's documented somewhere...
05:25<@Alberth>not afaik
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05:25<LordAro>i feel like i've asked this before, but what happened to Yexo? he hasn't had a shred of activity since the new year...
05:26<@planetmaker>I don't know either
05:26<@planetmaker>Looks like RL
05:26<@Alberth>most likely he just doesn't visit here any more
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05:27<LordAro>how busy does life have to get, in that you can't find a single bit of time in 6 months?
05:28<@Alberth>interests shift over time
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05:29<@Alberth>probably he has a job doing programming somewhere, and then most interest in doing more programming in openttd disappears
05:29<LordAro>true, but not even enough to say anything?
05:30<@planetmaker>what good would it do?
05:30<@Alberth>he's been here the past year before that to fix nml somewhat
05:30<@planetmaker>There are also communities I was involved in in the past. But where I dropped out rather quickly
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05:31<@Alberth>but that's also a never-nding story, and the exciting new-ish ness disappears
05:31<LordAro>dunno. the internet is a strange place - you might get run over by a truck and no one would ever know...
05:31*LordAro shrugs
05:32<@planetmaker>can happen yes. But... that didn't happen to him afaik. He's pretty active in RL from what one can see (I looked a few weeks earlier)
05:33<@planetmaker>bad for NML is that hirundo also disappeared
05:33<@Alberth>but when you lose interest there is also no drive anymore to say good bye
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05:33<LordAro>andy said goodbye, but then he's still here :p
05:34<@planetmaker>you just proved Alberth's point ;-)
05:34<@Alberth>andy did not say goodbye due to lack of interest ;)
05:35<LordAro>"It's not as fun as it was." <-- that sounds like like of interest to me :p
05:36<@Alberth>but anyway, newgrf airports don't seem too complicated to me; the biggest hurdle would be the NewGRF side, I think
05:36<LordAro>off you go then :P
05:37<@planetmaker>if I had an NML-way to create some... I would at least add a few proof-of-concept in OpenGFX+Airports :-)
05:37<@Alberth>I heard you have a free summer, right? :)
05:37<@planetmaker>:D I wished
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05:37<@Alberth>maybe you too, but I referred to LordAro :)
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05:41<@Alberth>Like I said, getting some form of NewGRF working would be the first step :p
05:46<@planetmaker>well, yes. It's easy to write a NewGRF there, I think
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05:54<@Alberth>lack of deadlock is not an easy property to obtain :p
05:54<LordAro>i'd have thought that's up to the newgrf writer, not OTTD
05:54<LordAro>it's the same for AIs
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05:55<@Alberth>yes, but writing a NewGRF is thus less easy than it may seem :)
05:58<@peter1138>You would catch me writing a patch and then never doing anything with it...
05:58<@peter1138>Hmm, that typo for *wouldn't kind of spoiled that :S
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06:20<GriffinOneTwo>err, how do you buy aircraft (I have 2 large airports)
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06:22<GriffinOneTwo>ok, where are hangers in the menu?
06:22<@planetmaker>they're on the airports
06:23<GriffinOneTwo>hmm, I see large, small, hub, and helo
06:23<__ln__>not hangers, hangars
06:23<@planetmaker>you don't build separate hangars, GriffinOneTwo
06:23<@planetmaker>they're part of the airports
06:24<GriffinOneTwo>oh, geeze, I was clicking all over the airport, never hit that
06:24<Xaroth|Work>tee hee
06:26<@planetmaker>actually, there's two airports which don't have a hangar: the helipad and the oil rig
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06:32<GriffinOneTwo>I did see the helo depot
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09:05<Rubidium>early bird ;)
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09:07<andythenorth>LordAro: afaik yexo just got a strong case of RL. He didn't lose interest, just time I think
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09:11<jorenl>So I made the mistake of building two "out of town" airports with a passenger feeding system, obviously not realizing that they wouldn't accept passengers. Is there a certain creative trick to fix this? A two-way feeder like on the wiki would require two airports and that doesn't seem like the most realistic solution :(
09:17<TWerkhoven>ctrl-place a station tile (certain train-station tiles look almost like townbuildings if you load the right newgrf) in the middle of the town and select the airport-name from the list
09:17<TWerkhoven>the option: allow to join stations not directly adjacent
09:17<TWerkhoven>needs to be enabled for that to work
09:18<Wolf01>or enable cdist for passengers
09:18<jorenl>@Wold01: what is cdist for passengers? :/
09:19<Wolf01>do you play on stable or nightly build?
09:19<Xaroth|Work>jorenl: you can always use the transfer command
09:20<Xaroth|Work>to transfer the passengers to the airport, airport transports them large distance (again transfer) at which point they get moved to somewhere where they do accept passengers
09:20<jorenl>Wolf01: I can't seem to find a full version number in the ui, but I think I'm using 1.3.1 stable.
09:21<Wolf01>ok, so discard what I said before
09:22<jorenl>@Xaroth|Work : both airports are a bit out of town, and use a train connection to feed passengers. If I have to use the same train to transport passengers who flew in (which openttd doesnt distinguish from passengers that are just dropped of by the airtrain) I'll obviously be transporting the same people back n forth without profit.
09:23<jorenl>but I can try the non-adjacent joint station. (although it sort of makes the feeder obsolete)
09:23<TWerkhoven>it does result in passengers magically showing up at the airport yes
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09:28<jorenl>Ok, it works. (the airports accept passengers). It would be more fun if it were possible to have the airport feeder trains pick up passangers from a seperate "arrivals" terminal though (like on most airports irl).
09:28<@planetmaker>simply activate cargo distribution ;-)
09:28<TWerkhoven>not available in 1.3.1, is it?
09:29<@planetmaker>no, indeed not
09:33<jorenl>also, can you temporarily disable certain orders in order lists?
09:34<Zuu>But there is arleady a couple of nightlies to choose from which has cargodist.
09:34<Zuu>Preferable grab the latest though :-)
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13:25<andythenorth>peter1138: interested in snow-aware stations for CHIPS? I can draw but cba to learn how the grm nfo stuff works
13:31<Eddi|zuHause>use m4nfo :)
13:31<Eddi|zuHause>or implement stations in nml :)
13:35<andythenorth>Always a smallish task can be growed into a big one :)
13:37<@planetmaker>hm, how complicated can it be to implement stations in NML...
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13:38<andythenorth>That can be answered empirically...
13:39<andythenorth>Yexo coded CHIPS to learn the nfo station spec
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13:45<@DorpsGek>Commit by translators :: r25433 trunk/src/lang/brazilian_portuguese.txt (2013-06-22 17:45:08 UTC)
13:45<@DorpsGek>-Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
13:45<@DorpsGek>brazilian_portuguese - 29 changes by Tucalipe
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15:11<Wolf01>lol, I wanted to link that yesterday evening
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15:23<@Alberth>that's a lot of earth :o
15:24<@Alberth>fonsinchen: nice post about pax cdist, perhaps add it to the wiki?
15:37<@planetmaker>hm, yes, wiki might be a good place for it
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15:57<Eddi|zuHause>i would never dream of constructing such abominations :p
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16:45<andythenorth>copper in FIRS?
16:47<Eddi|zuHause>not for the sole purpose of having copper
16:47<Eddi|zuHause>need to design a chain around it
16:47<andythenorth>well the economy I'm designing is mostly 'export' to ports
16:47<andythenorth>not to everyone's taste I guess
16:48<andythenorth>I could use iron ore which already exists
16:49<andythenorth>or cobalt
16:49<andythenorth>but I guess cobalt is not mined in large volumes
16:49<Eddi|zuHause>i'm sure you're overthinking this
16:50<@Alberth>good night
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16:51<andythenorth>overthinking it is just a form of meta-game
16:51<andythenorth>set up arbitrary questions, then look for answers
16:51<andythenorth>it's not massively different to actually playing ottd
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17:00<grep>hi everyone, I have a problem with building openttd
17:01<grep>I'm building with a very weird toolchain and I am always getting -rdynamic flag, which isn't supported
17:01<grep>it must all be static
17:01<grep>how can I successfully get rid of rdynamic other than removing it from every generated makefile?
17:02<grep>some neat ./configure voodoo would be much appreciated
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17:04<+glx>-rdynamic is added for icc, clang and gcc when supported
17:05<grep>I'm using gcc, but it's clearly not supported by my toolchain
17:05<+glx>we use "has_rdynamic=`$1 -dumpspecs | grep rdynamic`" to check the support
17:06<+glx>with $1 being the compiler
17:08<grep>strangely rdynamic comes up there
17:08<andythenorth>coffee as a cargo?
17:08<grep>but using that flag causes unknown flag error
17:08<andythenorth>coffee is just a kind of fruit, right? :P
17:13<grep>unrecognized command line option '-rdynamic'
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17:17<grep>so yeah
17:18<grep>I think I'm gonna change config.lib to not include that flag
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17:40<grep>top lel
17:40<grep>configure script checks for freetype but not for fontconfig
17:42<+glx>there's detect_fontconfig function in config.lib
17:43<Rubidium>really? Then why does the line after "checking libfreetype... found" say "checking libfontconfig... found"?
17:43<Rubidium>or are you on OS X?
17:43<Rubidium>or Windows?
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17:43-!-planetmaker is "Ingo von Borstel" on #openttd @+#openttdcoop +#openDune #oftc @+#openttdcoop.stable #openttdcoop.devzone @+#openttdcoop.nightly @+#coopetition @+#wwottdgd
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17:44<grep>Rubidium: I'm on Linux
17:44<grep>but the issue is that configure script checks with local system's pkg-config
17:44<grep>I have a separate pkg-config for my toolchain
17:45<grep>if that was used, it'd indicate which libs I'm really missing and which ones I'm not
17:45<+glx>so you are cross compiling
17:45<+glx>then you need to specify paths using --with-xxx stuff
17:46<@planetmaker>or compile in a chroot with the appropriate pkg-config
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17:48<grep>the chroot idea sounds pretty good though, thanks
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---Logclosed Sun Jun 23 00:00:18 2013