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#openttd IRC Logs for 2013-06-25

---Logopened Tue Jun 25 00:00:21 2013
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02:14<andythenorth>should I have 'make clean' remove cache files used by a templating engine?
02:23<@planetmaker>I should check whether it actually removes nml caches :-)
02:23<@planetmaker>good point
02:23<andythenorth>I always use make clean & make install
02:24<andythenorth>for historical reasons that may no longer be valid
02:24<andythenorth>if I continue that practice, I will make all caches pointless :P
02:24<andythenorth>anyway, FIRS templating step can now be *much* faster
02:25<@planetmaker>it should make all caches pointless. Doing so is the point of cleaning
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03:49<andythenorth>my caches aren't being used in the context of the makefile
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03:53<andythenorth>maybe environment vars aren't set when a module is imported
03:54<andythenorth>ok, so I have to set environment vars again
03:54<andythenorth>bit bureaucratic
04:04<@planetmaker>why do you have to do that? Simply clean the cache files. You know their names, no?
04:07<andythenorth>different issue ;)
04:07<andythenorth>the clean is fine
04:07<andythenorth>cache wasn't being used - now fixed
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06:15<@peter1138>This my boss does that Frustrating
06:15<@peter1138>Things my boss does that frustrate me: When asked to "search" for an email, will actually search through the message list looking for something, instead of... just using the search tool...
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06:16<Xaroth|Work>things that colleagues do that frustrate me
06:16<Xaroth|Work>instead of googling keywords in the search bar
06:16<Xaroth|Work>they search google
06:16<Xaroth|Work>and go to google
06:17<Xaroth|Work>then search what they need to search
06:18<__ln__>of course
06:18<Xaroth|Work>or, our office manager does this
06:19<Xaroth|Work>using the trash folder of their mailbox
06:19<Xaroth|Work>as their general 'stuff to put mail in'
06:19<Xaroth|Work>so if she needs an old email
06:19<Xaroth|Work>she'll usually find up realising that the mail was too old, and was since deleted, because it was in a trash folder......
06:20<TinoDidriksen>You'd think she'd learn after a few times.
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06:25<Xaroth|Work>you'd think so...
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07:02<Eddi|zuHause>planetmaker: it's not below, it's above (otherwise you couldn't introduce a new entry in the beginning)
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07:06<@planetmaker>yes, saw your posting. I fixed mine. thanks
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07:40<Eddi|zuHause>"Angela Merkel at greek passport checkpoint: 'Nationality?' - 'German' - 'Occupation?' - 'No, just visiting for a few days.'"
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07:53*TangoCash Picture of my whore ex-wife naked
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07:54<Eddi|zuHause>i always feel sorry for all the OCD people who have to click on every link :p
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08:30<@planetmaker>Bad_Brett, you really should attach your images to your tt-forums postings
08:30<@planetmaker>your previous postings are already also broken due to the images having disappeared
08:30<@planetmaker>it makes the thread look quite... sad
08:30<Bad_Brett>now that you mention it... i messed up big time
08:31<Bad_Brett>i moved things around on my server a while ago
08:31<Bad_Brett>i'll fix it
08:31<@planetmaker>yes... but please still: attach images. Don't link, if possible
08:32<Bad_Brett>will do
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08:36<@planetmaker>thanks :-)
08:44<Bad_Brett>i fixed the broken links as well, since i couldn't edit those posts
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08:58<Bad_Brett>hello belugas
09:01<andythenorth>what is the sound of the whale?
09:02<@Belugas>and of course...
09:02<Bad_Brett>that doesn't sound right
09:04<@Belugas>HOW DARE YOU DOUBT ME??????
09:06<__ln__>Belugas: yeah, don't teach a whale to sing
09:07<__ln__>Bad_Brett: even
09:09<@Belugas>note that i don't care ;) I've seen quite a few whales, so far. But I've only heard them once for real
09:09<Bad_Brett>i'm think it sounds more like this:
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09:10<__ln__>Bad_Brett: please note that the whale song in Star Trek IV was actually sung by mr. Nimoy, so it can't be used as a biologically accurate source.
09:11<Bad_Brett>i've watched almost every episode of Whale Wars... it's a fool-proof method if you're having trouble sleeping
09:13<@peter1138>bah, $var = `hostname` includes a newline...
09:13<Bad_Brett>(though a more adequate description would be that i've watched the first 5 minutes of almost every episode)
09:13<@peter1138>and i'm being ignorant :(
09:14<Eddi|zuHause>i don't think i have ever seen that show
09:14<Bad_Brett>that newline thing is so stupid i almost consider it a bug
09:14<@peter1138>$var =~ s/\R//g;
09:14<@peter1138>yeah boy
09:14<@peter1138>Bad_Brett, yeah i know right
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09:18<Vinnie_nl>Hi all, here we go again
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09:18<Vinnie_nl>NoGo, finding a powerplant works yet i cannot seem to get the correct Tile ID
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09:20<Vinnie_nl>a location gives back for example 199704. Wich i read as X 199 Y 704. Is this correct?
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09:21<Xaroth|Work>what's the map size?
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09:21<@planetmaker>your interpretation is incorrect, Vinnie_nl
09:21<@planetmaker>tiles are numbered
09:21<Vinnie_nl>thats the fun part. map size is 512 x 512
09:21<@planetmaker>you have to modulo that by the map x-size
09:21<Xaroth|Work>my guess would be, 390x24
09:21<@planetmaker>numbered sequentially. Tile 513 will be 1,2 in "your" coordinates
09:22<Xaroth|Work>er, or the other way around
09:22<@planetmaker>I don't know which comes first :-)
09:22<Xaroth|Work>either way :P
09:22<Vinnie_nl>so i divide it by 512 and then i got a remainder that will give me X or Y
09:22<@planetmaker>@calc 199704 / 512
09:22<@DorpsGek>planetmaker: 390.046875
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09:22<Xaroth|Work>x,y = (index / <map_x>), (index % <map_x>)
09:22<@planetmaker>@calc 199704 - 390*512
09:22<@DorpsGek>planetmaker: 24
09:23<@planetmaker>basically yes, Vinnie_nl
09:23<Vinnie_nl>X 24 Y 390
09:24<Vinnie_nl>powerplant tile is in 25 x 390
09:24<Xaroth|Work>then y,x = :P
09:24<Xaroth|Work>might even be index+1
09:24<Xaroth|Work>as coords start at 1,1
09:24<Xaroth|Work>so that's tile 0
09:24<@planetmaker>yeah :-)
09:25<Vinnie_nl>bloody hell, how do i write that into script
09:25<Xaroth|Work>if it was python
09:25<Vinnie_nl>no NoGo is squirrel
09:25<Xaroth|Work>tiletocoords = lambda i, s: (i % s), (i / s)
09:26<Xaroth|Work>or in this case i+1 % s, i+1 / s
09:26<Xaroth|Work>shouldn't be that hard in sq
09:26<@planetmaker>oh no, Xaroth
09:26<@planetmaker>(i+1) / s
09:26<Xaroth|Work>oh shush :P
09:26<@planetmaker>i + 1/s = i
09:26<@planetmaker>except if s = 0 or s=1
09:27<Xaroth|Work>I did mention a few times to tb that he should make it use python
09:27<@planetmaker>or -1 or whatever ;-)
09:27<Xaroth|Work>but sq was already there
09:27<andythenorth>'64 bags of coffee' looks silly
09:27<Xaroth|Work>damn squirrels
09:27<andythenorth>maybe I use sacks
09:27<@planetmaker>no, I didn't know
09:27<@planetmaker>squirrel bindings were available, python not? damn :-)
09:27<Xaroth|Work>well, he didnt want to reinvent the wheel
09:27<@planetmaker>andythenorth, "64 cups of coffee"
09:27<Xaroth|Work>or some lame excuse :P
09:29<@planetmaker>always the same old excuses
09:29<Eddi|zuHause>i only know the point where it said "squirrel is used. there will be no debate about that"
09:29<Xaroth|Work>mainly because i was debating it :P
09:30<Eddi|zuHause>anyway, aren't there predefined functions to get the X and Y coordinates out of a TileIndex?
09:30<Xaroth|Work>I'd assume so
09:30<Eddi|zuHause>like TileX(ti) and TileY(ti)
09:30<@planetmaker>in hindsight I'd love to see python there. oh well
09:31<Eddi|zuHause>i don't really care...
09:31<@planetmaker>Eddi|zuHause, in openttd source. in GS API? dunno
09:31<Xaroth|Work>the ones above that, vinnie
09:31<Xaroth|Work>GetTileY and GetTileX
09:31<Vinnie_nl>Your awesome
09:31<@planetmaker>yeah... GettileX, GetTileY
09:31<Xaroth|Work>I know :)
09:32<@planetmaker>awesome enought to be here on 27 July?
09:32<Xaroth|Work>would love to, but it's too far of a drive for me
09:32<Xaroth|Work>and I'm already going to spain 2 weeks later, so another weekend out is just, meh
09:32<Xaroth|Work>Eddi|zuHause: main carpoolers go both days, which is too long for me
09:34<Eddi|zuHause>"TILE_INVALID = (int)INVALID_TILE" uh. what? :p
09:56<@planetmaker>Eddi|zuHause, enum != int. Thus to avoid compile warnings
09:57<Eddi|zuHause>yes. but that was not the part that i meant :p
09:57<Eddi|zuHause>more the "A_B = B_A" part :p
10:27<Vinnie_nl>I love the NoAi documentation, thanks it helps alot
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10:39<Eddi|zuHause>BREAKING NEWS: Documentation helps a lot!
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10:49<Jogio>Hi "_"
10:50<andythenorth>this new economy is all plantations
10:51<andythenorth>what shall I call a farm that produces Fruit and Grain?
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10:52<Jogio>maybe call all farm
10:52<Jogio>and randomising goods they produce
10:53<Jogio>i mean farm goods
10:57<andythenorth>anyone else?
10:58<Vinnie_nl>specific fruit?
10:59<Eddi|zuHause>growhouse :p
11:01<Jogio>Plantage, but I don't know if this an english word too
11:04<@planetmaker>andythenorth, it's also an arable farm :-)
11:07<@planetmaker>for grain?
11:08<Bad_Brett>maybe not
11:09<andythenorth>sounds like Farm is easiest
11:09<Eddi|zuHause>andythenorth: btw. CETS does some partial compile, but since it means the "headers" have to be processed multiple times, it doesn't really reduce compile time. only memory consumption
11:10<andythenorth>if I could *guarantee* safety of varaction 2 IDs, it would be a plausible project
11:10<andythenorth>nmlc could just compile all code for each industry
11:11<andythenorth>dunno if that makes sense, it's more of a picture in my head than words
11:12<Eddi|zuHause>well i include some "fake" varaction at the end that uses all varactions that should have the same ID throughout the whole GRF
11:13<Eddi|zuHause>but the patch is somewhat hand crafted for CETS and scary to make more generic
11:14<andythenorth>I can imagine
11:14<andythenorth>I can make FIRS compile quickly by turning off imports (each industry is a python module)
11:15<andythenorth>but sometimes there are dependencies between industries, then I have to go comment out code
11:18<Jogio>Does someone of you know the game EA Unemployed?
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11:39<Bad_Brett>that's me in a nutshell
11:40<Bad_Brett>rather depressing to watch actually :P
11:45<andythenorth>employment seems to be unevenly distributed
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11:50<Eddi|zuHause>employment is overrated :p
11:53<Bad_Brett>well, i though that getting a master of science in engineering would be a good move, but 90% of the companies in Stockholm don't seem to give a damn if you're lacking experience and/or don't know anyone at the office... it's really frustrated, especially now when the stock market isn't all that lucrative
11:55<andythenorth>and yet companies all over the world can't hire enough engineering graduates
11:56<Rubidium>andythenorth: they want 20 yo graduates with 10 years of experience
11:56<andythenorth>I look for people who've been coding since about 10 years old
11:57<andythenorth>I started when I was about 7 or 8
11:57<andythenorth>and ideally they've run a business themselves, or worked freelance etc
11:57<Rubidium>damn... I won't meet those specs
11:58<andythenorth>not everyone I hire meets them either :P
11:58<Rubidium>mostly because of the latter clause
11:58<andythenorth>doesn't apply if have worked in a job for n years
11:58<andythenorth>but graduates haven't :P
11:59*blathijs fits the profile perfectly so far :-)
12:00<andythenorth>I should make the criteria tighter
12:00<andythenorth>'must have coded something for opentdd'
12:00<andythenorth>ttd *
12:02<Bad_Brett>of course, the companies always talk about the shortage of graduates, because it's rather beneficial for them to have a large group to choose from
12:02<blathijs>andythenorth: Still in the game! :-)
12:04<Bad_Brett>I wrote my first Pascal program when I was 7 years old... maybe i should put that on my resume then
12:04<andythenorth>I'd say about 1 in 10 graduates who apply to us are employable
12:05<andythenorth>hello Terkhen
12:05<andythenorth>terkhen was very employable :(
12:05<andythenorth>that was bad for openttd :(
12:05<@Terkhen>what, why?
12:06<andythenorth>you got a job ;)
12:06<andythenorth>and then you had less time
12:06<@Terkhen>oh, yes, I get it now :P
12:06<blathijs>Employing OpenTTD developers is great, if you pay them enough so they only need to work 2 or 3 days per week :-)
12:06<@Terkhen>I have less time and, since I'm tired, I don't want to code more stuff when I'm home :P
12:07<Bad_Brett>but the thing is, if no one hire graduates, you will eventually run out of people with relevant experience :P
12:09<@Terkhen>that's not important because all profit calculations are made taking into account only the short term
12:09<Bad_Brett>yeah i realise that
12:09<Bad_Brett>tough luck for me then
12:09<blathijs>Also, that affects your competitors just as much as yourself :-)
12:10<Bad_Brett>at least i have plenty of time to work on my openttd project
12:10<Bad_Brett>which doesn't really matter since i'm lacking the money to buy proper hardware :P
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12:13<blathijs>Proper hardware to run OpenTTD? Or is your project spiffy OpenGL rendering or something? :-)
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12:16<andythenorth>write an Android app or something
12:16<andythenorth>sell it
12:16<andythenorth>do an internship
12:16<andythenorth>work for free for a few days somewhere
12:16<Bad_Brett>rendering and nml compiler... andy knows what i'm talking about ;)
12:18<Bad_Brett>the insane amount of time it takes to compile a big project with the nml compiler
12:18<andythenorth>yeah that
12:19<Bad_Brett>yeah, i'm actually thinking of writing an Android app or something like that... i have to try new things, i can't go on like this
12:19<andythenorth>when starting our company, we made a game worth £25k for free for a charity
12:20<andythenorth>in return for them promoting it widely and giving us credibility
12:20<andythenorth>we also ran a free satirical website for 3 months
12:20<andythenorth>and made lots of no-budget films to show we could do it
12:21<andythenorth>and wrote lots of silly little games and tech demos
12:24<Bad_Brett>sounds like a smart move
12:24<andythenorth>otherwise people just ask 'what have you done?'
12:25<andythenorth>and if the answer is 'nothing' you don't get work
12:25<andythenorth>this is life
12:25<Bad_Brett>i might try something like that, i'm working on a few things with a couple of friends
12:25<andythenorth>/me gtg
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13:45<@DorpsGek>Commit by translators :: r25460 /trunk/src/lang (3 files) (2013-06-25 17:45:17 UTC)
13:45<@DorpsGek>-Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
13:45<@DorpsGek>czech - 4 changes by Eskymak
13:45<@DorpsGek>german - 3 changes by Jogio
13:45<@DorpsGek>luxembourgish - 2 changes by Phreeze
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14:52<Xaroth>sup Alberth
14:52<@DorpsGek>Commit by rubidium :: r25461 trunk/src/station_cmd.cpp (2013-06-25 18:52:12 UTC)
14:52<@DorpsGek>-Fix: MSVC compiler warning
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14:52<@Alberth>should there be something sup?
14:53<@Alberth>I was hacking somewhat in FreeRCT, until I found some email I should respond to :)
14:53<Xaroth|Work>how playable is freerct? :o
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14:53<Xaroth|Work>looking at it the other day made me mildly interested
14:54<@Terkhen>fully playable, as long as we are talking about playing with the code
14:54<Rubidium>someone should give a demo about that project sometime ;)
14:54<Rubidium>what about 27/28 july?
14:55<Xaroth|Work>won't be there then :|
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15:20<andythenorth>farm, farmstead, small-holding, hmm, not many options
15:21*Alberth votes for hmm
15:22<@Alberth>anything wrong with farm?
15:22<andythenorth>these farms, being strict to RL, are small subsistence plots in the forest
15:22<andythenorth>but farm might do
15:25<@Alberth>Subsistence farm ?
15:25<andythenorth>doesn't really generate much of a transport need :P
15:27<@Alberth>I was reading that :)
15:27<@Alberth>paddy field is pretty for graphics :)
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15:28<andythenorth>I'll do an Asian economy sometime :P
15:28<andythenorth>this farm should produce Maize not Grain
15:28<andythenorth>but I don't know if that is a good idea
15:29<andythenorth>MAIZ already exists as a cargo
15:30<@Alberth>diversity of cargoes seems like a good idea to me; otherwise I can just collect everything in one big network
15:31<@Alberth>I'll try that anyway, but no need to make it easy :p
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15:33<andythenorth>I'll enable MAIZ
15:33<andythenorth>it exists in the game anyway :P
15:34<Eddi|zuHause>maize is rather an american cargo?
15:34<andythenorth>I thought so
15:34<andythenorth>but staple food stuff in Africa apparently
15:35<Eddi|zuHause>before the world was screwed up by european ships, wheat was used in europe and middle east, rice in far east, and maize in north and south america
15:36<Eddi|zuHause>then things were shuffled around a bit, as the beginning of a "globalisation" of food
15:36<Eddi|zuHause>e.g. introduction of the potato to europe
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16:04<andythenorth>where should maize go
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16:04<andythenorth>can't really go to the grain mill
16:05<Eddi|zuHause>maize to a brewery... what blasphemy!!
16:07<V453000>that is called beer by a mistake
16:08<andythenorth>maybe I should make grain an import cargo
16:08<andythenorth>that's reality :P
16:09<andythenorth>I said nothing
16:09<andythenorth>nothing to see here
16:10<andythenorth>you must be hallucinamating
16:11<V453000>beer does that
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16:20<@DorpsGek>Commit by rubidium :: r25462 /trunk/src (fontcache.cpp fontcache.h) (2013-06-25 20:20:15 UTC)
16:20<@DorpsGek>-Codechange: make a better distinction between characters and glyphs
16:21<@DorpsGek>Commit by rubidium :: r25463 /trunk/src (fontcache.cpp fontcache.h) (2013-06-25 20:21:21 UTC)
16:21<@DorpsGek>-Codechange: export more size related information from the fonts
16:22<@DorpsGek>Commit by frosch :: r25464 /trunk/src (4 files in 4 dirs) (2013-06-25 20:22:08 UTC)
16:22<@DorpsGek>-Fix: Hide default size button in non-newstation rail-station picker since it is not resizeable anyway.
16:27<andythenorth>I want to do an industry which is a group of smallholdings
16:27<andythenorth>but that might be dumb
16:27<andythenorth>and I don't know what to call it in any case
16:28<andythenorth>'smallholdings' ? :P
16:29<@DorpsGek>Commit by rubidium :: r25465 /trunk (7 files in 3 dirs) (2013-06-25 20:29:31 UTC)
16:29<@DorpsGek>-Codechange: add the concept of a layouting engine for text
16:38<@DorpsGek>Commit by rubidium :: r25466 /trunk/src (gfx.cpp gfx_layout.h) (2013-06-25 20:38:12 UTC)
16:38<@DorpsGek>-Add: drawing routine for the layout engine
16:38<@DorpsGek>Commit by rubidium :: r25467 trunk/src/gfx.cpp (2013-06-25 20:38:29 UTC)
16:38<@DorpsGek>-Add: truncation support to the drawing routine
16:39<@DorpsGek>Commit by rubidium :: r25468 trunk/src/widget.cpp (2013-06-25 20:39:03 UTC)
16:39<@DorpsGek>-Fix-ish: the min/max of the close box were so small the glyph wouldn't even fit between them
16:40<@DorpsGek>Commit by rubidium :: r25469 /trunk/src (fontcache.cpp fontcache.h) (2013-06-25 20:39:58 UTC)
16:40<@DorpsGek>-Add: method for getting the font tables from freetype fonts
16:41<@DorpsGek>Commit by rubidium :: r25470 /trunk (9 files in 3 dirs) (2013-06-25 20:40:58 UTC)
16:41<@DorpsGek>-Feature-ish: use ICU's layout engine when that's available
16:44<@DorpsGek>Commit by rubidium :: r25471 trunk/src/gfx.cpp (2013-06-25 20:44:23 UTC)
16:44<@DorpsGek>-Fix/Feature [FS#5481]: support for Brahmic scripts (e.g. Tamil and Thai)
16:45<@DorpsGek>Commit by rubidium :: r25472 trunk/src/gfx.cpp (2013-06-25 20:44:54 UTC)
16:45<@DorpsGek>-Cleanup: remove the old methods for drawing text
16:47<Vinnie_nl>funny how the bot is called DorpsGek
16:47<+glx>why funny ?
16:47<Vinnie_nl>its a dutch word meaning village idiot
16:47<+glx>known fact :)
16:48<@DorpsGek>Commit by rubidium :: r25473 trunk/src/gfx_layout.cpp (2013-06-25 20:48:12 UTC)
16:48<@DorpsGek>-Fix: uninitialised warning
16:48<Eddi|zuHause>i do think that was an intentional choice :p
16:48<frosch123>nah, pure coincidencs
16:49<Rubidium>no, we chose 8 ASCII characters by random
16:50<Eddi|zuHause>so, when are we getting an ingame font picker?
16:50<andythenorth>I just want a browser
16:50<__ln__>btw, i think i still remember planetmaker's wi-fi password.
16:50<andythenorth>can't be worse than FF
16:50<Rubidium>Eddi|zuHause: just before you can send emails
16:51<andythenorth>video chat
16:51<Eddi|zuHause>andythenorth: a bit problematic with 256 colours :)
16:52<andythenorth>I don't see the issue
16:52<andythenorth>advanced dithering :P
16:52<Eddi|zuHause>a bit less if you consider the magic pink and magic flashing colours
16:53<andythenorth>you mean you're not flashing pink?
16:53<andythenorth>that destroys a happy mental image I had
16:53<Eddi|zuHause>i never said that
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17:12<@Terkhen>good night
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17:29<andythenorth>SUGR should be covered / sheltered
17:29<andythenorth>if ever there existed a cargo that justified that silly class
17:29<andythenorth>it's sugar
17:29<andythenorth>currently defined as bulk only
17:32<Eddi|zuHause>do it
17:33<Vinnie_nl>can i ask you something, the chat about famrs is it a new industry set or addition to firs?
17:34<Eddi|zuHause>does this text make any sense to anyone?
17:34<andythenorth>yes but no
17:34<andythenorth>I instantly understood the purpose
17:35<andythenorth>I'd have to actually try it to really understand the method
17:36<Eddi|zuHause>for example
17:36<andythenorth>and these can be setup on a per-vehicle basis?
17:37<andythenorth>in that case it makes complete sense
17:37<Eddi|zuHause>there's a table entry for that
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17:38<Eddi|zuHause>so for one or more cargo wagons you type "120kph_when_empty" in the "custom callbacks" column, then it will insert these lines for the vehicle
17:39<andythenorth>looks like a classic over-ride
17:39<andythenorth>jquery has a similar approach to over-riding cbs
17:40<andythenorth>time for bed andythenorth
17:40<Eddi|zuHause>bad andythenorth
17:41<andythenorth>I will likely see 6am tomorrow
17:41<andythenorth>and I saw midnight last night
17:41<andythenorth>but...this FIRS economy is not finished yet!
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17:43<Eddi|zuHause>oh what a boring world this would be if things were ever finished :p
17:51*__ln__ booked flights to/from Hannover
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---Logclosed Wed Jun 26 00:00:22 2013