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#openttd IRC Logs for 2013-06-26

---Logopened Wed Jun 26 00:00:22 2013
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03:59<andythenorth>hmm
03:59<andythenorth>it would be evil to not provide TE_WATER cargo in this economy
03:59<andythenorth>or to make BEER have TE_WATER :P
04:01<@planetmaker>seven bear is also a small meal. And then you haven't even drunk anything ;-)
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05:58<__ln__>buongiorno
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06:03<andythenorth>anyone find FIRS games take 10 mins for map gen? (1024x1024) ?
06:06<juzza1>inspired by the forum post i tested it, 2048x2048 took about 20 seconds
06:06<lugo>not me, and i have a quite old notebook (1,3ghz single core), takes about a minute
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06:20<kero>andythenorth absolutely not. Some second here (coulnd't tell exactly)
06:20<kero>he probably has some specific problem
06:22<__ln__>what would be an interesting place to spend ~3 days in central germany?
06:22<kero>Wurzburg is nice
06:23<kero>There's a nice episcopal palace to visit, and there is good wine :)
06:24<__ln__>ok, that is a possibility.
06:25<kero>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marienberg_Fortress
06:25<kero>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/W%C3%BCrzburg_Residenz
06:26<kero>Bamberg is also probably pretty, but i've never been
06:31<__ln__>any opinions on Wuppertal?
06:35<andythenorth>got a monorail
06:39<__ln__>yes, i've tested that and it was cool, but i don't really remember anything else of the city.
06:44<kero>I don't know Wuppertal, but I've heard nice things about Köln, which is quite near
06:50<andythenorth>I like Cologne a lot
06:51<andythenorth>big cathedral
06:52<kero>yeah it's a known one
07:06<Eddi|zuHause>you can find things to visit in any medium sized city
07:07<Eddi|zuHause>and neither Köln nor Würzburg are in "central germany" :p
07:07<Eddi|zuHause>the "center" of germany is probably around Erfurt
07:08<Eddi|zuHause>you can walk from braunschweig to erfurt, that should take roughly 3 days :p
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07:11<__ln__>that would actually be interesting :)
07:12<@planetmaker>3 days, Eddi|zuHause ?
07:12<Eddi|zuHause>google says 35 hours, so if you walk 12 hours a day
07:12<@planetmaker>you're a quick walker
07:12<@planetmaker>and you walk 12 hours a day?
07:12<Eddi|zuHause>i'm not crazy :p
07:12<@planetmaker>you haven't done a lot of hiking, did you?
07:12<+tokai|noir>Eddi|zuHause: Niederdorla claims to be the center of Germany :)
07:13<+tokai|noir>Not too far from here, I can easily reach it with bike in few hours. :)
07:13<@planetmaker>many places claim that. with different reasons and different... quality of claims
07:15<Eddi|zuHause>planetmaker: anyway, my father has this project where he wants to walk from Nordhausen to Ilsenburg in 1 days, but he never fully succeeded
07:16<+tokai|noir>planetmaker: From my point of view the center is always under my feet. From there I can look all around. :)
07:16<Eddi|zuHause>i'm not that fond of hiking myself :)
07:16<@planetmaker>tokai|noir, there we agree. Only on the definition of "my" we differ :-)
07:17<andythenorth>must be weird living in the middle of a large landmass
07:17*andythenorth is 5 miles from the sea and prefers it that way
07:17<andythenorth>sea / big muddy estuary /s
07:17<kero>where ?
07:18<kero>if it's not to personal question :)
07:18<+tokai|noir>andythenorth: Still better in the mid of Germany or Europe than in the mid of the Sahara, Gobi or Siberia (though Siberia probably has its charm :) )
07:20<Eddi|zuHause>there was this story a while back about a russian family who lived for decades in an otherwise uninhabited stretch of mountains in sibiria
07:21<Eddi|zuHause>they had no contact with other humans fromt he mid-40s to like the 80s, when some geological survey group stumbled upon them
07:23<+tokai|noir>Sounds like those cases of Japanese soldiers who protected some small islands by themselves years after Word War II. :)
07:24<Eddi|zuHause>not entirely.
07:24<Eddi|zuHause>originally the family fled from religious suppression
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09:10<@Belugas>hello
09:11<Xaroth|Work>o/
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10:13<__ln__>http://www.nytimes.com/2013/06/26/books/scholar-asserts-that-hollywood-avidly-aided-nazis.html
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10:15<Eddi|zuHause>nice paywall
10:16<__ln__>there's a paywall?
10:16<Eddi|zuHause>at least if you disable cookies and javascript
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11:02<@DorpsGek>Commit by rubidium :: r25474 trunk/src/os/macosx/osx_stdafx.h (2013-06-26 15:02:16 UTC)
11:02<@DorpsGek>-Fix [FS#5618]: OS X compilation failure
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11:39<Mazur>Is there a shortcut to select a type of rail when building rail?
11:40<Mazur>And why not?
11:42<@planetmaker>there's a setting for 'last used' 'most used' and maybe it also has the option 'first available'
11:43<Mazur>Yeah, I´m working with two types at the same time.
11:44<Mazur>Experiment.
11:44<Mazur>Maglev for Pax and electrified for freight.
11:46<Mazur>Switching is a bitch.
11:55<@Terkhen>hello
11:57<__ln__>hello T
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12:33<andythenorth>hello Terkhen
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13:45<@DorpsGek>Commit by translators :: r25475 /trunk/src/lang (4 files) (2013-06-26 17:45:27 UTC)
13:45<@DorpsGek>-Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
13:45<@DorpsGek>czech - 59 changes by Eskymak
13:45<@DorpsGek>luxembourgish - 8 changes by Phreeze
13:45<@DorpsGek>slovak - 27 changes by Milsa
13:45<@DorpsGek>thai - 4 changes by nirakanz
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13:55<andythenorth>Eddi|zuHause can you recall what we think is slow about nml compiles? Is it walking all the switches to resolve identifiers down to bytes?
13:55<andythenorth>I recall that being discussed
13:56<Eddi|zuHause>i don't know anymore, i circumvented all parts of nml except reading in the parse tree (ply)
13:57<andythenorth>nvm
13:57<Eddi|zuHause>expression resolving (operators, etc.) was also really slow
13:57<andythenorth>ah
13:58<Eddi|zuHause>so i put all template offset calculations into the python steop
13:58<andythenorth>hmm
13:58<andythenorth>that's interesting
13:58<Eddi|zuHause>writing the graphics wasn't fast either
13:58<andythenorth>iirc the spritecache sped that up?
13:58<Eddi|zuHause>but i now use grfcodec for that
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13:59<andythenorth>hmm
13:59<Eddi|zuHause>so i can't really say whether the cache helped
13:59<andythenorth>maybe I should change the pipeline and put grfcodec in it
13:59<Eddi|zuHause>maybe you should change your workflow so you don't do "make clean" every time :p
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14:03<andythenorth>I did :P
14:04<Eddi|zuHause>what was also slow was that the dep run basically did everything twice, so i completely removed that and wrote the deps from the python step as well
14:05<Eddi|zuHause>the dep run reads through the nml file and outputs all used graphics files
14:05<andythenorth>I wonder if planetmaker changed that
14:05<andythenorth>I don't think I see that happen anymore
14:06<Eddi|zuHause>since i know in the python step which graphics files i put in there, i can use that information right there to generate the deps file
14:06<andythenorth>+1
14:06<andythenorth>hmm
14:06<andythenorth>I could do that too :P
14:06<andythenorth>2m24 to compile FIRS
14:06<andythenorth>better than 3m, but not great
14:06<andythenorth>nfo FIRS was ~20s :(
14:07<andythenorth>still, means I get to watch a lot of YT :P
14:07<Eddi|zuHause>CETS is more like 17m (but -j6 able, so 17/6 'real' time)
14:08<andythenorth>I could put python multiprocessing on the preprocess step
14:08<andythenorth>that would get me maybe a 3x increase
14:08<@planetmaker>in the newest versions I removed that, yes
14:08<andythenorth>so I might save 2s :P
14:09<Eddi|zuHause>you removed the deps run from the makefile?
14:09<andythenorth>Eddi|zuHause: so is resolving expressions like this believed slow?
14:09<andythenorth> hide_sprite: (climate != CLIMATE_ARCTIC) || (climate == CLIMATE_ARCTIC) && ((nearby_tile_height(0, 0) < (snowline_height - 1)) || (nearby_tile_height(0, 0) >= (snowline_height + 0)));
14:10<andythenorth>I have a crapload of those :P
14:10<Eddi|zuHause>andythenorth: possible, but those are expressions you can't simplify. i had lots of expressions (a+2*b+x-y) which gave a compile-time result
14:10<andythenorth>ah
14:11<andythenorth>where it's obvious to me, I do that in python too
14:11<@planetmaker>Eddi|zuHause, yes, I did
14:11<andythenorth>I wonder if I should just write myself a more complicated preprocessor
14:11<@planetmaker>it's only used, if you use graphics generation
14:11<andythenorth>so I can compile individual industries with a parameter
14:11<@planetmaker>but then also in a different manner which does not need creating the nml first
14:11<andythenorth>can python do conditional imports?
14:12<andythenorth>I bet it can :P
14:12<Eddi|zuHause>if <condition>: import blah
14:12<Eddi|zuHause>yes, that should be possible
14:12<@planetmaker>andythenorth, #ifdef PARAMETER
14:12<@planetmaker>#include blah.pnml
14:12<@planetmaker>#fi
14:13<andythenorth>ho, that's interesting
14:13<andythenorth>I generate the pnml file with the includes
14:13<Eddi|zuHause>it's "#endif" :p
14:13<andythenorth>so I could do that
14:13<@planetmaker>ok, #endif
14:14<andythenorth>the problem is that industries reference each other
14:14<andythenorth>which is explodey for partial compiles
14:14<andythenorth>but I could also fix that
14:15<andythenorth>planetmaker: two extra lines around L33 here :P https://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/firs/repository/entry/src/header_items/master_control_program.pypnml
14:15<andythenorth>doesn't solve the industries referencing each other
14:16<andythenorth>then teach the makefile about a parameter
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14:16<@planetmaker>no need
14:16<@planetmaker>make -DPARAMETER=XX
14:16<Wolf01>hoi
14:16<andythenorth>a single industry is a 20s compile
14:17<@planetmaker>hm... but might need for the gcc options
14:17<andythenorth>much better when all I want to do is fix graphics etc
14:17<andythenorth>I might do this
14:18<andythenorth>hmm. An industry with simple graphics is ~10s to compile
14:29<andythenorth>so I'd need to wrap #ifdef around the neighbouring industry check for every industry
14:30<ZxBiohazardZx>hmmz
14:30<__ln__>hi Wolf01
14:30<ZxBiohazardZx>in cargodest
14:30<ZxBiohazardZx>when sorting
14:30<ZxBiohazardZx>i have "Sort By v "
14:30<ZxBiohazardZx>Station: Waiting
14:30<ZxBiohazardZx>Group by "Via-Destination-Source"
14:31<ZxBiohazardZx>why can i not sort it by "ammount" via ?
14:31<ZxBiohazardZx>ah nvm
14:31<ZxBiohazardZx>found :p
14:31<ZxBiohazardZx>ammount: waiting :P
14:31<andythenorth>is it bad to litter my code with conditionals that only exist for optimising compile times?
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14:49<@DorpsGek>Commit by frosch :: r25476 trunk/src/gfx.cpp (2013-06-26 18:49:53 UTC)
14:50<@DorpsGek>-Cleanup: Remove unused _max_char_size, _max_char_height, _max_char_width.
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15:10<@DorpsGek>Commit by rubidium :: r25477 trunk/src/gfx.cpp (2013-06-26 19:10:22 UTC)
15:10<@DorpsGek>-Fix: truncation didn't work because the string was truncated (or rather a newline was added) too early
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15:25<andythenorth>planetmaker: you busy, or want to help me figure out selective compiles?
15:27<Rubidium>orudge: you got speed with the Thalys wifi network?
15:27<@planetmaker>I try to find stuff in xussr currently
15:28<Rubidium>or rather, the wifi network worked?
15:28<Rubidium>last time it worked, it took about two minutes to update the simple "departure times at station X page" of the train company
15:29<Rubidium>and for sending a small mail I needed only about half an hour
15:35<@DorpsGek>Commit by frosch :: r25478 trunk/src/gfx.cpp (2013-06-26 19:35:40 UTC)
15:35<@DorpsGek>-Fix: Clip glyphs using the actual sprite dimensions instead of the text advancement.
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16:29<TomyLobo>hi
16:29<andythenorth>o/
16:30<TomyLobo>in 1.3.1 multiplayer, can I change the "vehicle breakdowns" setting without starting a new game?
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16:30<frosch123>what happens if you try?
16:31<TomyLobo>i cant find the difficulty settings dialog
16:31<frosch123>it's all in advanced settings
16:33<TomyLobo>found it
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16:38<@DorpsGek>Commit by frosch :: r25479 trunk/src/economy.cpp (2013-06-26 20:38:32 UTC)
16:38<@DorpsGek>-Fix (r23861): [NewGRF] When cargo NewGRF define a mulitplier to modify vehicle capacities, use the same multiplier to modify loading speed.
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16:41<@orudge>Rubidium: I seem to recall so, yes
16:41<@orudge>I'm not sure how accurate it was, mind you
16:44<@orudge>but I'm sure at one point it was reporting 300km/h-ish
16:48<TomyLobo>i keep accidentally skipping orders by pressing D
16:49<TomyLobo>when i want to get the destroy tool instead
16:49<frosch123>edit ~/.openttd/hotkeys.cfg and change the hotkey assignment
16:49<TomyLobo>i'm the host of a game right now. can i reload that file while the game is running?
16:49<TomyLobo>or even bind it via the console?
16:49<frosch123>i think neither
16:51<TomyLobo>ok
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17:03<frosch123>night
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17:17<@DorpsGek>Commit by michi_cc :: r25480 /trunk (config.lib src/os/macosx/osx_stdafx.h) (2013-06-26 21:17:09 UTC)
17:17<@DorpsGek>-Codechange: [OSX] OS X SDK versions >= 10.5 always have a non-const iconv declaration.
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17:32<Wolf01>'night
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17:43<andythenorth>hmm
17:44<andythenorth>I need a name for a plantation that grows fibre crops (sisal and cotton)
17:44<andythenorth>'plantation' is too generic :P
17:44<andythenorth>'cotton plantation' is too specific
17:46<andythenorth>he he, I'm running out of industry ids :)
17:47<andythenorth>also out of battery :P
17:47<andythenorth>good night
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20:22<TomyLobo>extending the openttd window to a 2nd monitor is nice. would be even nicer if i didnt have the newspaper, the quickbar and every other window that happens to spawn there split in half :)
20:33-!-Eddi|zuHause2 is now known as Eddi|zuHause
20:33<Eddi|zuHause>you can set the toolbar to left or right alignment
20:35<Eddi|zuHause>there once was a hacky patch that forced the "center" alignment to only use half the window width, to help with dualscreen (assuming two same size screens)
20:35<TomyLobo>ok, i'll look for that option :)
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20:50<Eddi|zuHause># Die Wagenreihung ist genau das Gegenteil vom Plan
20:50<Eddi|zuHause># Senk ju for träveling wis Deutsche Bahn
20:50<Eddi|zuHause>(why can't i get this song out of my head? :p)
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---Logclosed Thu Jun 27 00:00:24 2013