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#openttd IRC Logs for 2013-06-27

---Logopened Thu Jun 27 00:00:24 2013
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01:39<andythenorth>'Cotton and Sisal Plantation' - too stupid for an industry name?
01:41<andythenorth>Fibre Plantation?
01:42<andythenorth>Fibre Crop Plantation
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02:31<@planetmaker>good morning
02:32<@planetmaker><andythenorth> [23:40:33] I need a name for a plantation that grows fibre crops (sisal and cotton) <-- "fibre crop plantation"
02:32<@planetmaker>sounds logical to me :-)
02:32<@planetmaker>or "fibre crops farm"
02:33<andythenorth>+1 to farm
02:34<andythenorth>too many plantations in this economy
02:34<@planetmaker>so be it :-)
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03:13<boilpoil>hello
03:13-!-Devroush [~dennis@dD5765BAC.access.telenet.be] has joined #openttd
03:13<boilpoil>id like to ask something about a NewGRF...
03:14<boilpoil>does anyone know if ECS Vectors 1.2.0 is available for download somewhere? All I could find was 1.1.2
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03:27<@planetmaker>yes. the author will know
03:28<@planetmaker>but as the development topic still says 1.1.2... that's probably what you'll publicly find
03:29<@planetmaker>and all existing 1.2.0 are only pre-releases given to certain people for testing purposes
03:29<@planetmaker>most likely. dunno, though
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03:38<dihedral>greetings
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03:52<@planetmaker>hallo dihedral
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03:55<dihedral>hey ho planetmaker
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03:59<andythenorth>hmm
03:59<andythenorth>is this Congo-based economy I'm doing just bad taste? o_O
03:59<andythenorth>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Belgian_colonial_empire#Congo_Free_State_.281885.E2.80.931908.29
03:59<andythenorth>http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/firs/push/LATEST/docs/html/economies.html#MISTAH_KURTZ
04:00<andythenorth>I want to satirise exploitation, not glorify it
04:00<andythenorth>nor is it supposed to be a school lesson in colonialism
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05:47<NGC3982>Hey, got any good tip on trainsets for ECS?
05:48<NGC3982>I'm a bit tired of NARS/UKRS2/2CC. :(
05:57<@Alberth>nuts?
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06:19<NGC3982>Too unrealistic.
06:19<NGC3982>It's a great set, but it doesn't really give the impression of using trains.
06:19<NGC3982>More than space shuttles.
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06:28<@Alberth>ah right, my problem with most train sets is that they try to be true to the real world :)
06:28<@Alberth>o/ andy
06:30<NGC3982>Alberth: Hehe.
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06:37<@Alberth>there is also the default set or it's opengfx+ variant :p
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09:14<@Belugas>hello
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09:15<NGC3982>Belugas: Afternoon.
09:18<@Belugas>hi hi sir
09:19<@Belugas>my morning is cloudy, rainy and busy
09:24<NGC3982>Oh.
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09:24<NGC3982>It's cloudy around here.
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09:36<@Belugas>boring, isn't it? where's the sun gone???
09:36<NGC3982>I kinda like it.
09:37<NGC3982>We have had a great summer so far.
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09:53<@Belugas>cannot exactly say the same :( bah... it's good for the plants ;)
09:53<NGC3982>Indeed!
09:53<NGC3982>Speaking of, i need to take a picture of my rig.
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10:06<NGC3982>http://www.flickr.com/photos/appemobile/9152381996/
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10:35<@Belugas>balcony garden :)
10:35<@Belugas>cute cat, and cute photograph too ;)
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11:18<@Alberth>moin
11:22<@DorpsGek>Commit by rubidium :: r25481 trunk/src/gfx_layout.cpp (2013-06-27 15:22:19 UTC)
11:22<@DorpsGek>-Fix [FS#5620]: when the font size and colour change directly after eachother in a string, the latter isn't taken into account
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11:38<andythenorth>lo Alberth
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12:11<@Terkhen>hello
12:13<andythenorth>hola Terkhen
12:13<andythenorth>que tal?
12:13<@Terkhen>somewhat tired, but fine :P
12:18<@Alberth>have some coffee :)
12:18<@Alberth>the day has just started, right?
12:24<@DorpsGek>Commit by rubidium :: r25482 /trunk/src (gfx_layout.cpp gfx_layout.h) (2013-06-27 16:24:19 UTC)
12:24<@DorpsGek>-Fix [FS#5620]: forced newlines were not properly handled
12:25*Terkhen is actually trying to drink less coffee lately
12:25<@DorpsGek>Commit by rubidium :: r25483 trunk/src/gfx_layout.h (2013-06-27 16:25:30 UTC)
12:25<@DorpsGek>-Fix: don't commit too much...
12:25<__ln__>Terkhen: are you going to participate the Meeting?
12:26<@Terkhen>__ln__: nope
12:26<__ln__>what's your excuse? :)
12:28<andythenorth>you don't even have a baby :o
12:28<andythenorth>or do you? o_O
12:32<__ln__>and if you don't, it's certainly too late to obtain one before 27th jul.
12:34<V453000>adopted children also count into excuse list
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13:17<Eddi|zuHause>"Our tool found 1.2k crashes in debian packages. how do we file these reports correctly?" :p
13:18<Xaroth|Work>o_O
13:18<Eddi|zuHause>http://lists.debian.org/debian-devel/2013/06/msg00720.html
13:19<Rubidium>... but didn't find one in OpenTTD?
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13:22<@planetmaker>lol, Eddi|zuHause :-)
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13:37<Wolf01>hello
13:45<@DorpsGek>Commit by translators :: r25484 /trunk/src/lang (luxembourgish.txt slovak.txt) (2013-06-27 17:45:14 UTC)
13:45<@DorpsGek>-Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
13:45<@DorpsGek>luxembourgish - 21 changes by Phreeze
13:45<@DorpsGek>slovak - 2 changes by Milsa
13:46<@Alberth>hello Wolf01
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14:31<szaman>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uN1nxxKII7U - do you guys know these videos? :] made my day
14:33<@DorpsGek>Commit by rubidium :: r25485 trunk/src/gfx_layout.cpp (2013-06-27 18:33:46 UTC)
14:33<@DorpsGek>-Fix-ish: silence compiler warning
14:44<Eddi|zuHause>two in the chest, one in the head?
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14:49<Eddi|zuHause>szaman: all that shows me is how i hate "solo" piano music...
14:57<szaman>oh.
14:58<Bad_Brett>what have i missed?
14:59<@Alberth>everything
15:00<Bad_Brett>that's not good
15:00<@Alberth>but no worries, internet keeps records of it :)
---Logclosed Thu Jun 27 15:00:15 2013
---Logopened Thu Jun 27 15:00:48 2013
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15:00<Bad_Brett>ah very handy
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15:09<Bad_Brett>if i use the nmlc.exe -c option, will the offsets be properly adjusted or is better to crop the images before compiling?
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15:13<@Alberth>offsets will be changed to compensate for the differences in sprite size
15:13<@Alberth>at least that happened in 32bpp zbase :p
15:14<andythenorth>so is this congo economy bad taste?
15:14<Bad_Brett>splendid
15:14<Supercheese>I'd prefer a conga economy. Dance, dance
15:14<Supercheese>:P
15:14<andythenorth>fair point
15:14*andythenorth has moral doubt
15:14<@Alberth>Bad_Brett: but just try it, if the sprites are all wrongly aligned, it doesn't work :)
15:15<Bad_Brett>i'm gonna try it then, my own cropping algorithm is a bit jumpy during animations :P
15:16<@Alberth>Bad_Brett: worst case, you'll have to remove the -c option again :)
15:16<@Alberth>andythenorth: congo has little meaning outside britain perhaps?
15:17<@Alberth>Ie it's some land in Africa, but that's all I know about it
15:17<Supercheese>it's still a country, no?
15:17<Supercheese>two countries, even
15:17<Bad_Brett>yeah
15:18<Supercheese>seems quite a large place
15:18<@Alberth>see, I didn't even know that :)
15:18<Supercheese>Area - Total 2,345,409 kmĀ²
15:18<Supercheese>and that's just for the larger of the two
15:18<Bad_Brett>Congo-Kinshasa and Republic of the Congo
15:19<@Alberth>you can play 2048x2048 for real there :)
15:19<Bad_Brett>you may recall a country called Zaire :)
15:21<@Alberth>sounds familiar :)
15:23<@DorpsGek>Commit by rubidium :: r25486 /trunk/src/script/api (script_company.cpp script_town.cpp) (2013-06-27 19:23:23 UTC)
15:23<@DorpsGek>-Fix [FS#5613-ish]: missing length validation for town and president names in script APIs
15:24<andythenorth>Alberth: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Belgian_colonial_empire#Congo_Free_State_.281885.E2.80.931908.29
15:26<andythenorth>cheerful eh?
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15:27<@Alberth>nice country indeed
15:28<@Alberth>but you can have an 'atomic bomb' cargo :p
15:28<andythenorth>I considered it :P
15:30<@Alberth>so why 'congo' economy? just for its rubber?
15:30<andythenorth>hmm
15:30<andythenorth>my sense of humour
15:31<andythenorth>the economy is pretty much 'export everything, make nothing'
15:31<andythenorth>which I find satirical
15:31<andythenorth>but others may not get that
15:32<andythenorth>nvm
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15:32<andythenorth>we need a cargo chart making tool :)
15:33<andythenorth>like the industry chain diagram in openttd, but all chains at once ;P
15:36<@Alberth>+1
15:37<Rubidium>dot?
15:37<Xaroth|Work>^
15:38<@Alberth>or another graphviz layout algorithm :)
15:38<andythenorth>can the game do it?
15:39<andythenorth>or would this be a standalone app?
15:39<Xaroth|Work>could be integrated in nmlc to generate dot files/graphs on demand
15:40<@Alberth>quality of dot is not sufficient to bother
15:41<@Alberth>only way to get good quality is to do it manually, afaik
15:42<andythenorth>dunno what this is https://gephi.org/features/
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15:43<Xaroth|Work>looks.. complex
15:43<andythenorth>http://keylines.com/neo4j
15:43<Xaroth|Work>or well, not complex, complicated
15:44<andythenorth>http://keylines.com/features
15:44<andythenorth>hmm
15:44<andythenorth>render each cargo flow as a layer?
15:44<andythenorth>then composite
15:44*andythenorth is thinking about getting pngs out of it
15:44<Xaroth|Work>meh
15:44<Xaroth|Work>java
15:45<Xaroth|Work>a whole lot of oomph required for a simple graph
15:45<andythenorth>javascript
15:45<andythenorth>not same
15:45<andythenorth>https://github.com/mbostock/d3/wiki/Gallery
15:46<andythenorth>http://csclub.uwaterloo.ca/~n2iskand/?page_id=13
15:46<Xaroth|Work>neo4j is java
15:46<Xaroth|Work>d3 is nice
15:46<andythenorth>ah, ok. The graph library was what I was intending to link ;)
15:47<andythenorth>JS, then render with http://phantomjs.org
15:47<Xaroth|Work>then again, you could just make it render a html page
15:47<Xaroth|Work>with the svg embedded
15:48<andythenorth>that too
15:48<Xaroth|Work>saves having to render
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15:48<andythenorth>does openttd have a html capability? o_O
15:48*andythenorth is trolling
15:48<Rubidium>andythenorth: yes
15:49<Xaroth|Work>no, but i heard they were contemplating moving savegames to an xml format.
15:49<Rubidium>(assuming having coloured text is a capability of html)
15:55<@Alberth>Xaroth|Work: why use an xml format when you have base64 ? :)
15:56<Xaroth|Work>Alberth: better, base64'd xml!
15:56<Xaroth|Work>with, ofcourse, binary data represented as base64 in the xml
15:56<@Alberth>and compressed to reduce disk space or band width or so
15:57<@DorpsGek>Commit by rubidium :: r25487 trunk/src/command.cpp (2013-06-27 19:56:54 UTC)
15:57<@DorpsGek>-Fix: do not allow control codes in names of things (signs, vehicles, towns, stations, etc), so they have a known maximum fixed size and are, by definition, the same for everyone
15:57<@DorpsGek>Commit by rubidium :: r25488 /trunk/src/script/api (9 files) (2013-06-27 19:57:41 UTC)
15:57<@DorpsGek>-Fix [FS#5613]: do not send encoded texts to names, but decode them into a plain C string and then pass them on
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16:07<@DorpsGek>Commit by rubidium :: r25489 trunk/src/script/api/script_text.cpp (2013-06-27 20:07:09 UTC)
16:07<@DorpsGek>-Fix (r25488): we want to have the begin, not the end of the decoded text as string to pass along
16:18<andythenorth>ho ho
16:18<andythenorth>I got my FIRS compiles faster for testing
16:18<andythenorth>I get about 2m 20s back on every build
16:19<andythenorth>I have been building about 20 times per hour...
16:19<@Alberth>any faster and you'll live backwards!
16:19<andythenorth>nice idea
16:19<andythenorth>any evening I want to do TTD, I have about 2 hours between dinner and bed
16:19<andythenorth>I spend 40 mins per waiting for compiles and 20 mins writing code :P
16:20<andythenorth>that might get better now :)
16:20<@Alberth>why do you run the compiler so often?
16:20<@DorpsGek>Commit by rubidium :: r25490 /trunk/src (company_cmd.cpp company_manager_face.h) (2013-06-27 20:20:13 UTC)
16:20<@DorpsGek>-Fix [FS#5610]: the face of the manager differed on clients when the company was started after the clients joined
16:20<andythenorth>I rely on compiling to find mistakes
16:20<andythenorth>it's always the way I've done it
16:20<andythenorth>compile early and often
16:20<andythenorth>same when I was writing flash games
16:21<andythenorth>more gameplay testing, more ideas this way
16:24<@Alberth>I sometimes have to write a large amount of code, and don't compile for weeks then
16:24<@Alberth>but shorter cycles are usually easier to manage
16:25<andythenorth>I make a lot of mistakes :)
16:25<andythenorth>I wouldn't like to face the mountain that would build up after a few weeks
16:26<@Alberth>your fast compile times have you spoiled you :)
16:27<andythenorth>normally I'm writing web apps :P
16:27<andythenorth>reload, refresh
16:27<andythenorth>no compile
16:28<@Alberth>writing Java also has that advantage, Eclipse nicely hides it all
16:29<Rubidium>LabView as well ;)
16:29<Rubidium>though I like Java better ;)
16:30<@DorpsGek>Commit by rubidium :: r25491 trunk/bin/ai/regression/regression.txt (2013-06-27 20:30:22 UTC)
16:30<@DorpsGek>-Fix: ofcourse... doing something with Random messes with the regression result...
16:34<andythenorth>hmm
16:34<andythenorth>having a complete industry chain view would be handy when authoring FIRS
16:34*andythenorth ponders
16:34<andythenorth>do I *really* want to teach myself graph layout and do it with PIL?
16:34<andythenorth>that would suck
16:36<Xaroth|Work>s/PIL/Pillow/
16:39<andythenorth>yeah point
16:39<andythenorth>but anyway
16:43<@Alberth>PIL is about pixels, not about graphs. Generating SVG may be easier
16:44<andythenorth>what, all those line length calculations wouldn't be fun? :P
16:44<andythenorth>I am +1
16:44<andythenorth>except I have no idea where to start :)
16:50<@Alberth>drawing lines at pixel level is not so difficult :p
16:50<@Alberth>that is, until you want to have anti-aliasing :p
16:51<andythenorth>or gradients
16:51<andythenorth>or drop shadows
16:51<andythenorth>or superimposed text
16:52<@Alberth>if you aim for a general solution, I'd suggest to start reading about planar graph algorithms
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16:52<andythenorth>:(
16:52<andythenorth>I worried someone would say words like that :)
16:52<@planetmaker>hello
16:53<andythenorth>can I just pick the colours?
16:53<andythenorth>hello planetmaker
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16:56<@Alberth>sorry andy
16:56<@Alberth>hello planetmaker
16:56<andythenorth>hmm
16:56<andythenorth>now I have to sort out some industry location restrictions
16:57<@Alberth>I am just as clueless with such graphs. I briefly considered it for the chain window, but quickly discarded it due to too high complexity
16:57<andythenorth>I was trying to figure out if the chain window can be made to do it
16:58<@Alberth>just pick the right ones, and leave the left ones? :p
16:58<andythenorth>:P
16:58<@Alberth>you can obviously extend the window to draw pre-decessors of the pre-decessors
16:58<@Terkhen>good night
16:59<@Alberth>the problem is however to decide when to stop, and how to handle 'double' references
17:01<andythenorth>I suspect it's easy-ish for a person to draw once http://jorgeoh.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/02/rrt3_04.png
17:01<andythenorth>and hard to do automatically
17:02<__ln__>Wolf01: are you going to the Meeting?
17:02<andythenorth>hmm
17:03<andythenorth>if I was better at javascript I could hack on this
17:03<andythenorth>FIRS docs already have all the industries and cargos in scope
17:03<andythenorth>just need to put data attributes on some divs
17:03<andythenorth>then draw additional lines between any node that has a matched cargo pair
17:04<Wolf01>what meeting?
17:04<andythenorth>making a nice layout is almost too hard to bother
17:04<@planetmaker>r25+4k meeting, Wolf01
17:05<@planetmaker>hm... 25k
17:05<@planetmaker>http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=29&t=66728
17:05<@Alberth>andythenorth: indeed, manually is quite doable, although it takes effort. Automagically is almpost not doable, see output of graphviz :)
17:06<andythenorth>so use each industry image....draw connecting lines, do a nasty default grid layout, make the industries draggable...
17:06<andythenorth>http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/firs/releases/1.2.0/docs/html/industries.html
17:07<andythenorth>let the end user move stuff around :P
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17:16<@Alberth>:)
17:16<@Alberth>good night
17:17<@planetmaker>good night, Alberth
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17:19<@DorpsGek>Commit by michi_cc :: r25492 trunk/src/spritecache.cpp (2013-06-27 21:18:56 UTC)
17:19<@DorpsGek>-Doc: Missing comment.
17:21<@DorpsGek>Commit by rubidium :: r25493 /trunk/src (4 files) (2013-06-27 21:21:47 UTC)
17:21<@DorpsGek>-Codechange: support for the safer variant of ICU's getFontTable
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17:41<@planetmaker>good night
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18:08<Wolf01>'night
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18:49<Vick1211>I'm currently having an issue where my train isn't going all the way to the end of the track but instead it's stopping at the depot each and every time, and instead of continuing the route it resatrts it, can anyone help
18:49<Vick1211>?
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---Logclosed Fri Jun 28 00:00:25 2013