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#openttd IRC Logs for 2013-06-28

---Logopened Fri Jun 28 00:00:28 2013
---Daychanged Fri Jun 28 2013
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03:20*Alberth waves hi
03:21<@Alberth>can someone please stop ordering bad rainy weather? It's supposed to be summer sunny :(
03:22<__ln__>but it is
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03:35<peter1139>It's a British summer :D
03:46<__ln__>why did the britons choose to live on an island with such a bad weather in the first place?
03:57<szaman>as a Pole, i think, it's because it is safe there, you don't have armies running west->east nad east->west all the time :]
04:00<szaman>one way or another, it's raining in Poland for 6 days now :P
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05:38<__ln__>a good point
05:39<roboboy>we have lots of rain here down under, but it is Winter
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09:03*NGC3982 has bought a new suit.
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09:24<@Alberth>NGC3982: tip: also buy furniture at the same day, the suit then doesn't look very expensive :p
09:24<@Alberth>found a nice train set btw?
09:26<@planetmaker>try something completely different. Try george's xussr set as found on the devzone
09:29<@planetmaker>also hello everyone :-)
09:34<Rubidium>hello someone ;)
09:42<Eddi|zuHause>hello, everyplanet and everyelement
09:42<roboboy>hello #openttd
09:44<NGC3982>Alberth: :D.
09:44<NGC3982>Alberth: Yes, indeed. I had totally missed out on the Dutch trainset.
09:45<NGC3982>Alberth: Although, i (funny enough, right this moment) realized that the server has crasched due to NewGRF problems with the Dutch trainset
09:45<NGC3982>And something about carts being too long.
09:45<@Alberth>not so good thus :(
09:45<Eddi|zuHause>that only happens when you mess with newgrfs after game start (or when there's a serious bug)
09:46<NGC3982>The only thing changed mid-play was station_spread and max_train_length
09:47<NGC3982>Though, the problem did not occur while changing any of those parameters, but over night.
09:48<NGC3982>Luckily, it's a game save used on a dedicated server. I'll try to restart (and replicate) the problem.
09:48<@planetmaker>then... you should report it :-)
09:49<NGC3982>There is nothing to report until i replicate it, i guess.
09:49<NGC3982>Since, i'm now also noticing i can't access any of my servers.
09:49<NGC3982>Wait what.. :(
09:50<@planetmaker>if it crashed, you have all info you need on the server: crash.log, crash.sav
09:51<@planetmaker>and possibly an autosave which is from somewhen before that. Sometimes it comes in handy, sometimes it#s not needed
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10:04<NGC3982>That's new.
10:10<Eddi|zuHause>on the title savegame?
10:10<NGC3982>No, on joining the server, playing the savegame.
10:11<NGC3982>Though, this is not about the game itself, but all of my current OpenTTD servers
10:11<NGC3982>I can't join any of them
10:11*NGC3982 is looking into it.
10:11<Eddi|zuHause>again, you know where to put the savegames
10:12<NGC3982>Derp. This is so broken.
10:12<NGC3982>The Ubuntu server's got an average load of >9.
10:12<NGC3982>And no process running past ten percent.
10:12<NGC3982>Hardware, oh hardware.
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10:18<@planetmaker>what does the message say, NGC3982 ?
10:19<Eddi|zuHause>the train "blah" has wrong length. obviously :)
10:19<@planetmaker>sure? Only last sentence I can decode to roughly "problem found with newgrf and game may desync or crash"...
10:20<NGC3982>I'm sorry PM, i'll come back to that. I'm having hardware issues.
10:20<Eddi|zuHause>Tåg = Zug
10:20<Eddi|zuHause>ogiltig = ungültig
10:22<Eddi|zuHause>and if in doubt, grep through the language file to find the string id :p
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10:30<NGC3982>God. The CPU fan b0rked.
10:34<Eddi|zuHause>that probably causes all sorts of problema, but this one is really unlikely :p
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10:43<NGC3982>I can't seem to find the installer for OpenTTD 1.3.0
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10:45<Eddi|zuHause>then use 1.3.1
10:45<NGC3982>Great solution \o(
10:57<NGC3982>There we are.
10:58<NGC3982>Client #3 is dropped because it took longer than 1000 ticks to join
10:58<NGC3982>dbg: [net] '8293CGN' made an error and has been disconnected. Reason: 'processing map took too long'
10:58<NGC3982>I still get that, after updating the server and the client to 1.3.1, trying to join a UKRS2+FIRS game.
10:58<NGC3982>Let's try this on another computer.
11:00<Eddi|zuHause>try to pause the game?
11:00<NGC3982>How would that help?
11:01<Eddi|zuHause>the client has to catch up the calculation for all ticks that passed during downloading the map. if the game is too busy this may take a long time
11:02<NGC3982>Sure, but that will not fix my initial problem. Something is preventing me from joining a game that i've had no problem with before.
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11:04<NGC3982>Excuse me?
11:04<NGC3982>And, it worked out on the second laptop next to this one. Thus, something on this laptop prevents me from joining.
11:28<NGC3982>That's odd. Reinstalling it completely did not help.
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11:41<@Alberth>it's scary enough that it appears to solve something at times, imho
11:46<@planetmaker>right... so who speaks NFO here? I've an NML file which breaks by swapping the default graphics callback to the commented-out one. NFO looks like or like The interesting one is: what does the action2 do in the broken one?
11:48<@planetmaker>breaks as in: graphics are not found any longer and most action0 properties are set to 0 in the purchase list
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12:40<Rubidium>planetmaker: I can spell it, does that count? ;)
12:50<@planetmaker>I fear it needs understanding of what it exacly does... but as far as I got so far it simply tries to access - as told - some variables of the parent scope - which totally messes up things. And I'm not yet convinced that the code is wrong. Nor actually correct... devil's in the detail there, I guess with those adv. varaction2s
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13:08<Mazur>Hm, why is PublicServer not responding?...
13:11<Mazur>Am I even anywhere?
13:12<Mazur>Ah yes, Stablean responds to me, so I exist.
13:13<Rubidium>it's all a dream
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13:45<@DorpsGek>Commit by translators :: r25494 /trunk/src/lang (3 files) (2013-06-28 17:45:19 UTC)
13:45<@DorpsGek>-Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
13:45<@DorpsGek>catalan - 7 changes by juanjo
13:45<@DorpsGek>spanish - 5 changes by juanjo
13:45<@DorpsGek>vietnamese - 9 changes by nglekhoi
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13:45<Rubidium>buongiorno Wolf01
13:45<@planetmaker>hullo Wolf01 & quak ;-)
13:46<frosch123>cia, hai, moin :)
13:47<@planetmaker>frosch123, can you have a look whether is correct, namely the varaction2?
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13:47<@planetmaker>I believe yes, but... it needs someone who speaks NFO more fluently than myself
13:48<Wolf01>sorry about yesterday evening, I was in the middle of a online game, for the meeting instead I think I won't be able to participate
13:48<Jogio>Hi trainjunkies :-)
13:48<@planetmaker>hi Jogio
13:49<@planetmaker>frosch123, the nml is and the alternative compile (other default graphics callback): works well
13:49<@planetmaker>the broken one is broken as in that purchase sprites and stats are zeroed
13:49<@planetmaker>mostly at least
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13:52<@planetmaker>the difference basically is a pointless access of two variables of the related object. That breaks it
13:53<Jogio>planetmaker, can I click on "mark"in the webtranslator when I think a translation is improveable?
13:53<@planetmaker>I think so, yes
13:55<Jogio>ok, it's maybe better because some translations bother me, but I don't nothing better :-)
13:55<Jogio>*don't know
13:56<Jogio>and the field to edit is to small
13:56<@planetmaker>yes, I agree
13:56<@planetmaker>way too small
14:01<Rubidium>wasn't there a meeting about a new translator tool in the near future?
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14:02<@planetmaker>yeah, that meeting... :D It has a tight schedule. Translator tools, admin port tools, cakes, bbq...
14:02<frosch123>planetmaker: i assume it fails in the purchase list?
14:03<@planetmaker>yes. only there
14:03<frosch123>it accesses the speed variable
14:03<frosch123>which is unavailable in the purchase list
14:03<frosch123>accessing unavailable variables is an error
14:04<frosch123>which is defined to chain to the first case no matter what
14:04<frosch123>so it chains to the dummy range
14:04<@planetmaker>it accesses invalid variables, yes... but should that reset *all* properties for the purchase list?
14:04<frosch123>cb36 has no flag, and all cb chains run into that case
14:05<frosch123>and that chani does not end with a cb failure, but with a cb result 0
14:05<@planetmaker>so... default should be CB_FAILURE?
14:05<frosch123>so all cb return 0
14:05<frosch123>and all vehicle resolving fails
14:06<@planetmaker>hm, ok...
14:06<frosch123>i would give the dummy case the same value as the default case
14:06<frosch123>whatever you write there, it is wrong
14:06<frosch123>either it fails for sprite resolving or for callbacks
14:09<@DorpsGek>Commit by rubidium :: r25495 trunk/src/station_cmd.cpp (2013-06-28 18:09:07 UTC)
14:09<@DorpsGek>-Fix [FS#5553]: when addings bits to a (train) station, the train trying to stop there could overshoot the (new) stop location and not stop at all
14:10<Wolf01>and if the station was a terminus one?
14:11<@planetmaker>it obviously could not overshoot or not stop :-)
14:12<frosch123>yeah, train drivers get very confused if you change their platform while they enter
14:12<frosch123>they are also worried if they stand at a red signal, and then someone removes it
14:13<Jogio>".... , da Banken kein Gold an Goldminen oder Diamanten und Diamantenminen schicken. Im gemäßigten Klima kann auch "symmetrisch" gewählt werden, da Banken sich gegenseitig Wertsachen schicken."
14:13<Jogio>I think "schicken" is not good
14:14<@planetmaker>the "und" between "Diamanten" and "Diamantenminen" is wrong
14:14<Jogio>"liefern" maybe
14:15<Jogio>technically they just produce it
14:15<@planetmaker>technically we only play the delivery service
14:15<Jogio>you have to transport it
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14:17<Jogio>".... ,da Banken kein Gold an Goldminen oder Diamanten an Diamantenminen liefern. Im gemäßigten Klima kann auch "symmetrisch" gewählt werden, da Banken sich gegenseitig Wertsachen zusenden."
14:19<Jogio>I think its better now
14:21<Jogio>there was 4 times "schicken in the whole string xD
14:24<Rubidium>frosch123: just use block signals, then they're not worried. They just start driving ;)
14:26<@planetmaker>frosch123, thanks for that analysis :-)
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14:42<andythenorth>forums are quiet
14:42<andythenorth>someone post something :P
14:43<frosch123>make a post in the (25+4)k topic, that you are attending or so
14:44<frosch123>or that you send a cake via mail :p
14:46<andythenorth>ho o
14:46<andythenorth>attending no
14:46<andythenorth>if I remember :P
15:02<frosch123>planetmaker: is it actually a nml bug? i mean nml cannot do much about accessing invalid variables, so the code is wrong anyway
15:02<frosch123>it's just the fastest way to make it obvious that there is a problem
15:03<@planetmaker>frosch123, yes. no. maybe :-)
15:03<frosch123>the va2 evaluationis aborted on error
15:03<@planetmaker>it's a bit un-obvious at least. See
15:03<frosch123>so the service date is not stored either for example
15:03<@planetmaker>the callbacks define there don't look worrysome. But it works, if you remove all but the two graphics ones
15:04<frosch123>i always believed the "choose range 0 on error" was only some way to make it obvious that it is wrong
15:04<@planetmaker>possibly that was the thinking behind it. Not sure. But it makes sense
15:04<@planetmaker>now that you mention it :-)
15:05<frosch123>so, should ottd print a more visible error message?
15:06<@planetmaker>not sure that it would solve the problem completely. If you look at the code I linked: if you keep the first 3 callbacks (default, purchase and articulated_part). Would you assume that it zeros all properties in purchase view?
15:08<frosch123>well, but it made it very obvious that there is something wrong
15:09<frosch123>and if ottd would blame the grf for accessing invalid stuff, it would be easier to see
15:09<@DorpsGek>TrueBrain: Commit by rubidium :: r25496 /branches/1.3 (9 files in 2 dirs) (2013-06-28 19:09:47 UTC)
15:09<@DorpsGek>TrueBrain: [1.3] -Backport from trunk:
15:09<@DorpsGek>TrueBrain: - Fix: When town creation failed, removing remnants of the construction failed on protected houses [FS#5603] (r25429)
15:09<@DorpsGek>TrueBrain: - Fix: There were two hotkeys to toggle between 'unload' and 'unload if possible' (r25406)
15:09<@DorpsGek>TrueBrain: - Fix: The size of station construction windows could oscillate when resizing the window moved the mouse into the window [FS#5596] (r25395)
15:09<@DorpsGek>TrueBrain: (...)
15:10<@planetmaker>yes, that's true, frosch123
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15:20<@DorpsGek>Commit by frosch :: r25497 trunk/src/economy.cpp (2013-06-28 19:20:45 UTC)
15:20<@DorpsGek>-Fix (r25479): byte is not unit
15:21<frosch123>yay, 97 fixing 79 :)
15:21<@DorpsGek>Commit by rubidium :: r25498 /branches/1.3 (5 files in 3 dirs) (2013-06-28 19:21:24 UTC)
15:21<@DorpsGek>[1.3] -Backport from trunk:
15:21<@DorpsGek>- Fix: [NewGRF] When cargo NewGRF define a multiplier to modify vehicle capacities, use the same multiplier to modify loading speed (r25497, r25479)
15:21<@DorpsGek>- Fix: [OSX] OS X SDK versions >= 10.5 always have a non-const iconv declaration (r25480)
15:21<@DorpsGek>- Fix: Disable the depot-refit button in the order GUI, if the consist is not refittable unless it already has a refit order (r25459, r25458, r25457)
15:23<andythenorth>reminds me
15:24*andythenorth tries an OS X compile
15:24<andythenorth>what was breaking anyway?
15:24<Rubidium>too bad of the trailing space in my commit, otherwise I could've backported that even sooner ;)
15:24<@DorpsGek>Commit by rubidium :: r25499 /branches/1.3 (11 files in 3 dirs) (2013-06-28 19:24:39 UTC)
15:24<@DorpsGek>[1.3] -Backport from trunk:
15:24<@DorpsGek>- Fix: Do not send encoded texts to names, but decode them into a plain C string and then pass them on [FS#5613] (r25489, r25488)
15:24<@DorpsGek>- Fix: Do not allow control codes in names of things (signs, vehicles, towns, stations, etc), so they have a known maximum fixed size and are, by definition, the same for everyone (r25487)
15:24<@DorpsGek>- Fix: Missing length validation for town and president names in script APIs (r25486)
15:26<Eddi|zuHause>"Following the ancient religious principle of alms for the poor, the Church of England is reportedly to back a £1bn investment in more than 300 branches of the Royal Bank of Scotland."
15:28<andythenorth>ho ho
15:28<andythenorth>fontcache error on compile :)
15:28<andythenorth>openttd/src/fontcache.cpp:194: error: ‘>>’ should be ‘> >’ within a nested template argument list
15:28<andythenorth>didn't run configure first
15:29<@DorpsGek>Commit by rubidium :: r25500 /branches/1.3 (16 files in 4 dirs) (2013-06-28 19:29:08 UTC)
15:29<@DorpsGek>[1.3] -Backport from trunk:
15:29<@DorpsGek>- Remove: SETX(Y) does not work at all with other than default fonts, so get rid of it (r25454)
15:29<@DorpsGek>- Fix: When addings bits to a (train) station, the train trying to stop there could overshoot the (new) stop location and not stop at all [FS#5553] (r25495)
15:29<@DorpsGek>- Fix: The face of the manager differed on clients when the company was started after the clients joined [FS#5610] (r25491, r25490)
15:31<@DorpsGek>Commit by rubidium :: r25501 trunk/src/fontcache.cpp (2013-06-28 19:31:31 UTC)
15:31<@DorpsGek>-Fix: compilation error on OS X
15:31<Rubidium>andythenorth: and you didn't update to current HEAD yet ;)
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15:40<NGC3982>For some reason, i can't get my laptop to connect to my server.
15:40<NGC3982>It works fine on anything other computer.
15:40<NGC3982>Is there a setting on how much time a client is allowed before disconnecting?
15:41<NGC3982>Whilst loading a map, that is.
15:44<@DorpsGek>Commit by rubidium :: r25502 /branches/1.3 (25 files in 6 dirs) (2013-06-28 19:44:28 UTC)
15:44<@DorpsGek>[1.3] -Backport from trunk:
15:44<@DorpsGek>- Fix: Proper support for Brahmic scripts (e.g. Tamil and Thai) [FS#5481] (r25501, r25493, r25485, r25483, r25482, r25481, r25478, r25477, r25476, r25474, r25473, r25472, r25471, r25470, r25469, r25468, r25467, r25466, r25465, r25463, r25462, r25455, r25452, r25451, r25450, r25447, r25446, r25445, r25444, r25443, r25442, r25441, r25440, r25439, r25438, r25437, r25436, r25343, r25157)
15:48<@DorpsGek>Commit by rubidium :: r25503 /branches/1.3 (20 files in 2 dirs) (2013-06-28 19:48:10 UTC)
15:48<@DorpsGek>[1.3] -Backport from trunk: language updates
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15:50<andythenorth>compile worked
15:51<@Alberth>NGC3982: yes
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15:52<andythenorth>openttd/src/video/cocoa/ warning: format not a string literal and no format arguments
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15:59<@Alberth>andy, crane in chips in front of a forest is a bit glitchy:
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16:04<NGC3982>It worked itself out by increasing max_join_time
16:04<NGC3982>Although, the issue remains worked around, but not fixed.
16:05<andythenorth>probably I don't understand bounding boxes :P
16:12<andythenorth>faster FIRS compiles ftw
16:12<andythenorth>this is way more productive :P
16:13<@planetmaker>good night
16:13<andythenorth>bye planetmaker
16:16<andythenorth>these farmhouses are all a bit same-same eh?
16:22<@Alberth>I never quite understood why firs has all these different farms, but they bring different cargoes afaik
16:22<andythenorth>I considered making them all one kind more or less, with random
16:23<andythenorth>(for the cargos)
16:23<andythenorth>which might have been fine
16:23<andythenorth>but I didn't go that route
16:23<@Alberth>I was thinking that just now too :)
16:23<@Alberth>(that alternative, that is :) )
16:23<andythenorth>I think random cargo is annoying
16:24<andythenorth>Alberth: you playing a FIRS game currently?
16:24<@Alberth>yeah, it's nice to be able to know what to expect when seeing the graphics
16:25<@Alberth>currently not, I am experimenting with cdist and cargoes, that doesn't really need the complexity of FIRS yet :)
16:26<@Alberth>I am starting to get to understand how to handle a single cargo :p
16:26<andythenorth>I should play a game
16:26<@Alberth>tic tac toe? :)
16:26<andythenorth>always a draw
16:26<andythenorth>trying to teach child #1 that
16:27<@Alberth>you need to play optimal then, otherwise you loose :)
16:29<Eddi|zuHause> <- the optimal move in every situation
16:29<andythenorth>graphics for Coffee Estate
16:29<andythenorth>I hope the base set has some bushes and stuff
16:30<Eddi|zuHause>small trees?
16:31<andythenorth>think there will be some
16:31<andythenorth>dunno what they look like in ogfx though
16:33<Eddi|zuHause> <- i knew i've seen a patch like this before
16:47<@Alberth>it looks like a wrong solution to the problem :p
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16:53<@DorpsGek>Commit by rubidium :: r25504 trunk/Doxyfile (2013-06-28 20:53:42 UTC)
16:53<@DorpsGek>-Feature [FS#5563]: allow images in the (doxygen) documentation (adf88)
16:54<@DorpsGek>Commit by rubidium :: r25505 trunk/src/elrail.cpp (2013-06-28 20:54:05 UTC)
16:54<@DorpsGek>-Fix [FS#5563]: use proper doxygen style link to images
16:59<Eddi|zuHause>i think it's an elegant solution (although i have not looked at the implementation)
17:00<Eddi|zuHause>you reuse the concept of the conditional orders, so you need no new GUI elements
17:03<andythenorth>it's quite a programmatic way of thinking
17:03<andythenorth>elegant, but possibly unintuitive ;)
17:06*Rubidium wonders how "bad" it is, if you change the text to "stay as long as <xyz>". Though yes, it might make things nasty-ish
17:08<andythenorth>changing the text makes it better
17:08<Eddi|zuHause>well, any other solution would involve using the "load" options dropdown, and then the GUI gets more complicated than the feature
17:08<andythenorth>indent the line :P
17:09<andythenorth>so it's subsidiary to the 'goto station'
17:09<Eddi|zuHause>that means, the feature must be delayed until a complete timetable GUI redesign
17:10<andythenorth>so change the text
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17:10<andythenorth>worse is good enough :)
17:10<andythenorth>:o Full FIRS economy has an insane number of industries :o
17:10*andythenorth has been looking at smaller economies
17:11<andythenorth>must be pretty overwhelming the first time you see FIRS minimap :P
17:11<@DorpsGek>Commit by rubidium :: r25506 /trunk/src (5 files in 4 dirs) (2013-06-28 21:11:35 UTC)
17:11<@DorpsGek>-Document: a function, and name it slightly better
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17:42*andythenorth sleep?
17:43<andythenorth>I ran out of things I want to code tonight :)
17:44<Rubidium>so continue with the stuff you want to code tomorrow
17:45<andythenorth>no coding allowed at weekends :(
17:47<Eddi|zuHause>even better, then you can go straight to monday :p
17:54<andythenorth>je vais
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18:12<Eddi|zuHause>there are now officially people who are more crazy than us:
18:25<Wolf01>bed time
18:25<Wolf01>'night all
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21:08<BookaT>is the reddit openttd server active alot?
21:13<Mazur>Not one of ours, so I do not know,
21:14<Eddi|zuHause>can't expect a lot at 3AM
21:14<BookaT>I'm US
21:14<Eddi|zuHause>yes, but most of the OpenTTD community is european
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21:15<BookaT>I'm just looking for a decent group to get something started, my old group are actually flight simmers and its tough to get them going
21:17<Mazur>You can join our stabl server, some more Merkins and nightowls there, usually.
21:19<Mazur>Mon lit.
21:19<Mazur>J´y vais.
21:19<BookaT>let me go check that out
21:21<Mazur>I speak a bit outside my own private little world.
21:21<BookaT>man, this game is already at maglev
21:21<BookaT>I don't stand a chance
21:21<Mazur>Just one or two words, as you can see.
21:22<Mazur>There´ll be a new game every few days.
21:23<Mazur>As soon as map gets filled.
21:23<BookaT>This map is a ton of water, and mostly already used up
21:23<Mazur>Check the rules, too.
21:24<BookaT>I'm not a dick player
21:24<BookaT>but I do know some people don't like you pulling up into a station and fucking distro chains
21:24<Mazur>Not assuming anyhing.
21:25<Mazur>Anyhow, Iḿ off to play with the pixies.
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---Logclosed Sat Jun 29 00:00:43 2013