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#openttd IRC Logs for 2013-06-30

---Logopened Sun Jun 30 00:00:45 2013
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00:32<Milaga>So if I wanted to make my own NewGRF to assign names based on town size (say, a pool for cities, a pool for towns over 400 pop and a random generator for those below 400) would learning NML be the way to go? GRFMaker was not as point and click as I thought it would be.
00:35<Milaga>Frankly I'd be happy if I could just pull from a list.
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03:05<@planetmaker>good morning
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03:14<andythenorth>farm fields can't be planted in desert :P
03:15<Rubidium>andythenorth: why not? Just let the farm require water
03:15<andythenorth>unless you are about to commit something for that....I can't ;)
03:15<Rubidium>if there's no water, make it go all dried up and non-producing
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03:18<@planetmaker>we don't draw fields there, though, Rubidium
03:18<@planetmaker>even snow moves the field fences
03:19<Rubidium>oh, those farm fields
03:21<@DorpsGek>Commit by rubidium :: r25524 trunk/src/gfx_layout.cpp (2013-06-30 07:21:37 UTC)
03:21<@DorpsGek>-Fix [FS#5624]: fallback layouter broke on long "words" without space after a newline
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03:29<@planetmaker>hm, would be nice if page up and page down worked on readme viewer
03:29<@DorpsGek>Commit by rubidium :: r25525 trunk/src/gfx_layout.cpp (2013-06-30 07:29:31 UTC)
03:29<@DorpsGek>-Fix: off-by-one in fallback layout w.r.t. colour/font changes
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03:29<Rubidium>planetmaker: see that as you personal quest ;)
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03:31<@planetmaker>I would want to push that in LordAro's direction ;-)
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03:46<@DorpsGek>Commit by rubidium :: r25526 trunk/src/gfx_layout.cpp (2013-06-30 07:46:10 UTC)
03:46<@DorpsGek>-Fix: line breaking in fallback layouter was off-by-one, so sometimes strings that needed to be broken off earlier got truncated later on
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04:27<@planetmaker>moin Alberth
04:29<@DorpsGek>Commit by alberth :: r25527 trunk/src/string.cpp (2013-06-30 08:29:51 UTC)
04:29<@DorpsGek>-Fix[FS#5621]: strndup should not examine strings beyond its upper limit.
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04:58<@DorpsGek>Commit by rubidium :: r25528 /branches/1.3 (70 files in 5 dirs) (2013-06-30 08:58:35 UTC)
04:58<@DorpsGek>[1.3] -Backport from trunk:
04:58<@DorpsGek>- Fix: strndup should not examine strings beyond its upper limit [FS#5621] (r25527)
04:58<@DorpsGek>- Fix: SDL does not give an event when an application gets mouse focus while going to full screen, so manually force the mouse-is-in-window state [FS#5587] (r25523)
04:58<@DorpsGek>- Fix: Reworked layouting (r25526, r25525, r25524, r25513, r25512, r25511)
05:06<@DorpsGek>Commit by rubidium :: r25529 /branches/1.3 (22 files in 8 dirs) (2013-06-30 09:05:55 UTC)
05:06<@DorpsGek>[1.3] -Backport from trunk: language updates
05:06<@DorpsGek>[1.3] -Update: documentation
05:11<@DorpsGek>Commit by rubidium :: r25530 /tags/1.3.2-RC1 (3 files in 3 dirs) (2013-06-30 09:11:35 UTC)
05:11<@DorpsGek>-Release: 1.3.2-RC1
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06:51<MNIM>Question: Is it possible to have only mail and passengers distribute automatically in cargodist?
06:52<@Alberth>yes, there are toggles for several types of 'cargos'
06:55<MNIM>oh, nice
07:18<kero>You set that in the settings. Set it to "manual" for the cargos other than pax/mail
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07:22<MNIM>ok, thanks
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07:54<MNIM>some of my lines might be a tad bit overloaded
07:55<@planetmaker>more trains or more tracks might solve that :-P
07:55<@planetmaker>or simply longer trains
07:56<MNIM>It looks like I mainly need more stop trains.
07:56<MNIM>my 14-tile long intercity trains seem alright.
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08:10<Bad_Brett>when using childsprites, the z0 offset has to be x(z5)*2^5 to be positioned properly, right? (32,64,96, 128...)
08:11<Bad_Brett>is there a good reason why it works this way?
08:14<@Alberth>do you need another reason than "it works" ?
08:15<@planetmaker>for my childsprites to ground tiles the offsets need be 0
08:16<@planetmaker>so I challange the statement that childsprites need any offset to be properly aligned
08:17<@planetmaker>as usual it depends highly on what you want to align with what, though
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08:24<Bad_Brett>the problem occurs mostly when the z0 sprites have irregular offsets, e.g [146, 178]... when scaled, the z5 offsets will be [4,6]. This works perfectly on all regular sprites, but when using childsprites OpenTTD will use the z5 value and multiply it with 32 [128, 196], instead of using [146, 178]
08:24<Bad_Brett>of course this can be solved rather easily by using standard sizes on everything
08:24<@planetmaker>what is z0 for you?
08:25<@planetmaker>and z5? etc?
08:25<@planetmaker>base line is always the 1x zoom sprites.
08:26<@planetmaker>Values are scaled from there. Or should be
08:26<Bad_Brett>z0 = 4x zoom, z5 = 1/8x zoom
08:26<Bad_Brett>i'll have to test this again
08:28<Bad_Brett>because if i remember correctly, i got different results on the 4x zoom level when i added the 1/2x, 1/4x and 1/8x zoom levels, which shouldn't be the case
08:28<Bad_Brett>i'll do some more testing
08:29<Bad_Brett>however, the original question is still valid: if you can set different offsets for different zoom levels, why aren't they used?
08:30<@planetmaker>they shalll not be used. As they're ignored
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08:31<Bad_Brett>yes, yes i know... but is there a technical reason why they are ignored, or is it just a feature that's never been added due to lack of time/interest?
08:33<@planetmaker>it's zoom levels. So sprites sizes must simply scale
08:35<Bad_Brett>yeah, but on standard sprites the offsets don't scale automatically... this is the confusing part
08:35<@planetmaker>what are "standard sprites"?
08:36<Bad_Brett>parent sprites may be a better word
08:36<@planetmaker>yes. using the correct terms helps tremendously
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08:36<Bad_Brett>sorry :)
08:37<@planetmaker>also wrt zoom levels it would.
08:38<Bad_Brett>i'll remember that
08:38<@planetmaker>or simply 4x, 2x, 1x, 0.5x
08:40<Bad_Brett>the z0/z1/z2 levels were used during the development of the orignal extra zoom levels patch though... so i'm gonna blame those guys on this one
08:41<@planetmaker>do that. won't help understanding, though
08:41<@planetmaker>(I always found their naming... not appropriate already then)
08:42<@planetmaker>the point about using the 1x offsets etc is that things must not "jump" when zooming in or out
08:43<Bad_Brett>but ironically, this is exactly what happens :(
08:43<@planetmaker>then the parent sprites are not properly aligned by simply scaling their offsets?
08:43<@planetmaker>I know that "properly" is relative.
08:44<@planetmaker>Especially when it comes to sprites which overlap the actual tile boundaries slightly or are offset by, say, 1px which corresponds to 0.25px in 1x zoom
08:45<Bad_Brett>yeah, but we're talking BIG jumps... maybe 20 pixels
08:46<@planetmaker>I don't see how they can happen, if you simply use scaled versions of the sprites. Without aligning them completely differently
08:47<Bad_Brett>my only explaination is that OpenTTD scales the values of the farthest zoom level (in my case 1/8x)
08:48<Bad_Brett>which means, that if the proper offsets on the 4x level is something irregular, such as [146, 178]
08:48<@planetmaker>@calc 146/4
08:48<@DorpsGek>planetmaker: 36.5
08:49<@planetmaker>that would not work well... as it does not even scale with 1x really
08:50<Bad_Brett>yeah i know, and this may cause a 1 px error on the 1x zoom level
08:50<Bad_Brett>that's perfectly logical
08:50<@planetmaker>yes, but not 20 :-)
08:51<Bad_Brett>but we're getting to that :)
08:54<Bad_Brett>the problem is that the offsets of the 4x level is completely ignored, so the 1px error will scale to a 4px error on the 4x level... and i'm most certain that it gets even worse when you add sprites for the 1/8x level... basically, the more zoom levels i added, the weirder results
08:54<Bad_Brett>the "easy" solution is of course to make sure that everything scales properly
08:55<Bad_Brett>both parent sprites and child sprites
08:55<@planetmaker>that's the definition of zoom level actually. yes
08:55<@planetmaker>it's 1x, 2x and 4x. Not 1x, 2.05x and 4.1x :-)
08:56<@planetmaker>It's easy for me to say this. I know that it's much harder to draw and align by that :-)
08:57<Bad_Brett>well it won't be that hard to re-write my code so that everything is dividable by 32... some sprites will just become a bit bigger
08:59<Bad_Brett>but the question still remains... if i decide to add graphics for all the zoom levels, should i be able to manually control the offsets (which works perfectly on the parent sprites)
09:05<@planetmaker>Honestly, I'm not sure :-) Not wure whether there are implications I might miss
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09:15<Bad_Brett>alright, thanks anyway
09:15<Bad_Brett>i'll change the sizes to something scalable
09:15<Bad_Brett>that should do the trick
09:20<@planetmaker>if that doesn't do the trick, please come back :-) And also come back if it does do the trick ;-)
09:25<Bad_Brett>i will
09:37<peter1139>do the offsets for the max zoom level
09:37<peter1139>all other levels can use transparent pixels for padding if necessary
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09:46<Bad_Brett>that's just the thing - it won't work
09:46<Bad_Brett>it works perfectly on parent sprites
09:46<Bad_Brett>but not on child sprites
09:47<Bad_Brett>so usually it's not a problem
09:48<Bad_Brett>but with irregular sprite sizes and 6 different zoom levels, it's a nightmare
10:01<MNIM>after almost fifty years I am going to replace my steam train mainline
10:01<MNIM>time to up the average speed on the mainline
10:05<frosch123>Bad_Brett: usual problem with child sprites is that they are positioned relatively to the topleft of the parent sprite, i.e. not relative to the reference point of the parent sprite
10:05<frosch123>so if parent sprites are cropped differently, child sprites are positioned kind of anywhere
10:06<MNIM>whew. slightly higher top speed, but almost twice the capacity per train for the new models
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10:32<@DorpsGek>Commit by frosch :: r25531 /trunk/src (17 files in 3 dirs) (2013-06-30 14:32:31 UTC)
10:32<@DorpsGek>-Codechange: Use separate function to set data of WWT_MATRIX widgets.
10:33<@DorpsGek>Commit by frosch :: r25532 /trunk/src (5 files in 2 dirs) (2013-06-30 14:33:15 UTC)
10:33<@DorpsGek>-Fix: Do not make the minimal size of matrix or panel widgets depend on their number of rows, since that changes when resizing the window.
10:33<@DorpsGek>Commit by frosch :: r25533 /trunk/src (4 files in 2 dirs) (2013-06-30 14:33:32 UTC)
10:33<@DorpsGek>-Codechange: Use SetCapacityFromWidget more often.
10:34<@DorpsGek>Commit by frosch :: r25534 /trunk/src (network/network_gui.cpp object_gui.cpp) (2013-06-30 14:34:23 UTC)
10:34<@DorpsGek>-Codechange: FinishInitNested calls OnResize, no need to setup scrollbar capacity before that.
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10:35<@DorpsGek>Commit by frosch :: r25535 trunk/src/rail_gui.cpp (2013-06-30 14:35:44 UTC)
10:35<@DorpsGek>-Fix [FS#5584]: Initialise scrollbars before FinishInitNested, so their capacity is set via OnResize.
10:36<@DorpsGek>Commit by frosch :: r25536 trunk/src/newgrf_gui.cpp (2013-06-30 14:36:07 UTC)
10:36<@DorpsGek>-Cleanup: No need to set scrollbar capacity anywhere but in OnResize.
10:36<@DorpsGek>Commit by frosch :: r25537 /trunk/src (16 files in 3 dirs) (2013-06-30 14:36:31 UTC)
10:36<@DorpsGek>-Codechange: Optionally make WWT_MATRIX compute the number of rows and columns from the resize step size.
10:37<@DorpsGek>Commit by frosch :: r25538 trunk/src/object_gui.cpp (2013-06-30 14:37:01 UTC)
10:37<@DorpsGek>-Fix [FS#5567] (r25283): Use the UI index of the selected object to make it visible when re-opening the build object window. (sbr)
10:37<@DorpsGek>Commit by frosch :: r25539 trunk/src/object_gui.cpp (2013-06-30 14:37:24 UTC)
10:37<@DorpsGek>-Codechange: Setup object GUI matrix before restoring selected object, so that the matrix state can be properly set. (sbr)
10:37<@DorpsGek>Commit by frosch :: r25540 trunk/src/object_gui.cpp (2013-06-30 14:37:50 UTC)
10:37<@DorpsGek>-Fix: Unify selecting a new object class in the object GUI. (sbr)
10:38<@DorpsGek>Commit by frosch :: r25541 trunk/src/vehicle_gui.cpp (2013-06-30 14:38:20 UTC)
10:38<@DorpsGek>-Cleanup: No need to clear a bit which is never set.
10:38<@DorpsGek>Commit by frosch :: r25542 trunk/src/vehicle_gui.cpp (2013-06-30 14:38:45 UTC)
10:38<@DorpsGek>-Fix: Do not just add 65 pixels to the width of the train vehicle list whenever it is opened, but remember the width of the train list separately from other vehicle types.
10:39<@DorpsGek>Commit by frosch :: r25543 /trunk/src (bridge_gui.cpp object_gui.cpp) (2013-06-30 14:39:09 UTC)
10:39<@DorpsGek>-Cleanup: Make the bridge and object picker not restore their previous size, but the previously saved size.
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11:04<Xaroth|Work>frosch123 is on a commit spree!
11:05<@Alberth>for 7 minutes, 25 minutes ago :)
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11:25<frosch123>time runs weird :p
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11:59<@DorpsGek>Commit by rubidium :: r25544 trunk/src/script/api/script_town.cpp (2013-06-30 15:59:10 UTC)
11:59<@DorpsGek>-Fix [FS#5625] (r25488, r25486): [GS] The checks and validations for setting the extra text in the town window became too stringent
11:59<scshunt> /win 27
12:00*Rubidium hopes /win 2 is #openttd
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12:25<Eddi|zuHause>so the string checks were stringent. what irony.
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13:31<frosch123>@topic set 1 1.3.1, 1.3.2-RC1
13:31-!-DorpsGek changed the topic of #openttd to: 1.3.1, 1.3.2-RC1 | Website: * (translator: translator, server list: servers, wiki: wiki, patches & bug-reports: bugs, revision log: vcs, release info: finger) | Don't ask to ask, just ask | 'Latest' is not a valid version, 'Most recent' neither | English only | for dev-talk | #openttd.notice for commit notices
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13:46<@DorpsGek>Commit by translators :: r25545 /trunk/src/lang (10 files) (2013-06-30 17:46:07 UTC)
13:46<@DorpsGek>-Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
13:46<@DorpsGek>croatian - 39 changes by VoyagerOne
13:46<@DorpsGek>english_AU - 39 changes by mrtux
13:46<@DorpsGek>french - 39 changes by glx
13:46<@DorpsGek>german - 1 changes by Jogio
13:46<@DorpsGek>hungarian - 39 changes by Brumi
13:46<@DorpsGek>italian - 39 changes by lorenzodv
13:46<@DorpsGek>korean - 2 changes by telk5093
13:46<@DorpsGek>polish - 5 changes by wojteks86
13:46<@DorpsGek>thai - 42 changes by nirakanz
13:46<@DorpsGek>turkish - 113 changes by emremeydan
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14:12<frosch123>ciao Wolf01!
14:33<Xaroth|Work>I should have kept my pcap files when i made libottdadmin >_<
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15:06<Milaga>Good afternoon. Can anyone point me to a working US town name NewGRF?
15:06<NGC3982>Milaga: Have you encountered anyone that is not working, in the online content?
15:10<Milaga>Yes, the one you can get in game, through the online list.
15:10<Milaga>One second, I'll give you more information.
15:10<Milaga>GRFID 54420210
15:11<frosch123>did you use townname grfs before, do you know how to activate them?
15:11<Milaga>Oh no, I am quite new to this game.
15:11<frosch123>you need to go to newgrf settings, AND to game options
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15:12<Milaga>So I have to be set as English (Original) ?
15:12<Milaga>Those are what it overwrites?
15:12<frosch123>no, they are separated in the list
15:13<frosch123>iirc the newgrf ones are at the top, then comes a line, and then defautl ones
15:15<Milaga>I do not see them. Let me get a few more town names.
15:16<Milaga>Ah ha!
15:16<Milaga>Thank you.
15:18<Milaga>The interface is so small on 1920x1200 ... I'd play on a lower resolution but I like having tons of stats windows up on all my trains.
15:18<@planetmaker>Milaga, try opengfx+biggui
15:19<NGC3982>That's a neat combination.
15:22<Milaga>Hmm, I think I will.
15:24<Milaga>Oh my, I didn't see all that other online content apart from the NewGRFs.
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15:34<Milaga>Thank you for the help. I have some new toys to play with. :)
15:35<@Alberth>always happy to make one addicted to the game :p
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16:40<@DorpsGek>Commit by rubidium :: r25546 /trunk/src (script/script_scanner.cpp viewport.cpp) (2013-06-30 20:40:49 UTC)
16:40<@DorpsGek>-Fix: two small memory leaks
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18:36<TomyLobo>does road vehicle routing take arrow'ed and blocked roads into account remotely or only locally?
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19:20<Milaga>Wow, I found a great, massive map of the eastern US, but it doesn't seem to work. There are no vehicles or stations. Am I missing something about playing a scenario?
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19:27<Milaga>There were steam engines in 1920 ... hmm
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19:27<+glx>default vehicles appear around 1920
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19:29<Eddi|zuHause>1926-1930 or so
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19:29<Milaga>I can't even build a railroad track!
19:29<Milaga>I'm running out the time to see if that's it.
19:29<+glx>it's a feature (disableable)
19:29<Eddi|zuHause>yes. there would be no point in railroad tracks if you don't have any engine that could run on it
19:30<Milaga>I turned off the feature, and the tracks button is not grayed out, but all the types of tracks are.
19:30<Eddi|zuHause>just start at a later date
19:30<Milaga>When you start a scenario, it picks the NewGRFs to use, correct? It's not something else I have enabled?
19:31<Eddi|zuHause>yes, scenarios have fixed NewGRFs
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19:31<+glx>or no grfs at all
19:31<+glx>but that's stored in the scenario
19:33<Milaga>Hmm, I'll play around with the scenario editor, not done that before.
19:38<Milaga>There's your problem. The first steam engine appears in 1944. Unfortunately, my favorite US locomotives won't make an appearance.
19:39<Milaga>Is there any way to add NewGRFs to a scenario in the editor?
19:42<Milaga>ah, I think I found the way
19:53<Milaga>There we go!
19:58<Milaga>Thanks for all the help. I love that this community has an IRC channel. I'm off to lose myself in the 20s era steam.
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20:13<TomyLobo>Milaga you should check out the trailer of this game and see if you like it :)
20:16<TomyLobo>i could be totally off though
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21:40<Milaga>@TomyLobo its on my list of things to check out eventually. Too many games, not enough time.
21:40<Milaga>So with ECS vectoring, do industries really need to get all of the resources to produce their product?
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21:47<Eddi|zuHause>mostly, yes
21:48<Eddi|zuHause>some of them have a "main" ressource that get you started, and an "additional" ressource to increase productivity
21:50<Eddi|zuHause>but i never played with ECS long enough to figure out all the details
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23:12<Milaga>Thank you Eddi.
23:13<Milaga>This scenario I'm playing has all of them active. The resource trees are extremely complex. So much for starting off with a good ol' Steel industry.
23:22<Milaga>Yeah, I'm looking there. The information is not very thorough. For example, where does Potash come from?
23:22<Milaga>Which I need to make glass to make vehicles ... or do I?
23:33<@planetmaker>I would think that its docs are quite extensive... but I don't see the source of potash in the overview chart either
23:41<Eddi|zuHause>it was either missed, or references a different version where it doesn't exist
23:45<Milaga>I'll muddle through. When I'm done with the session tonight I'll look for a PDF or something.
23:45<Milaga>Thanks again.
23:45<Eddi|zuHause>you have the charts ingame as well
23:45<Eddi|zuHause>on an industry, you can open the chain view
23:46<Eddi|zuHause>and from there you can show all related industries on the map
23:46<Eddi|zuHause>i.e. all industries that accept or produce this cargo
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---Logclosed Mon Jul 01 00:00:46 2013