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#openttd IRC Logs for 2013-07-07

---Logopened Sun Jul 07 00:00:54 2013
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03:15<andythenorth>python list comprehensions: how do I drop one specific item from the result?
03:15<andythenorth>based on the value
03:15<andythenorth>if item is 'foo' I don't want it
03:20<andythenorth>oh, it's trivial :P
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04:09<Eddi|zuHause>[x for x in foo if x != bar]
04:10<Eddi|zuHause>well whatever
04:20<@Alberth>andy is way too fast these days :)
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04:23<frosch123>moin :)
04:23<frosch123>you were only one hour earlier than me today :)
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05:00<@DorpsGek>Commit by rubidium :: r25571 extra/masterserver_updater/src/contentserver/handler.cpp (2013-07-07 09:00:47 UTC)
05:00<@DorpsGek>[MSU] -Fix: assertion triggered in contentserver
05:02<@DorpsGek>Commit by rubidium :: r25572 extra/masterserver_updater/src/shared/mysql.cpp (2013-07-07 09:02:13 UTC)
05:02<@DorpsGek>[MSU] -Change/fix-ish: make order of results from the content server more reliable
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05:29<@Alberth>hi hi
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05:48<@Terkhen>good morning
05:49<@Alberth>mornink Terkhen
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06:29<LordAro>hmm, HD 7770 or HD 7850 ?
06:37<@DorpsGek>Commit by rubidium :: r25573 /trunk/src (lang/slovak.txt network/core/tcp_content.cpp) (2013-07-07 10:37:16 UTC)
06:37<@DorpsGek>-Change: make content list appear faster by allowing some window redraws in between
06:41<LordAro>" What arbitrary number to choose is the ultimate question though." hehe :)
06:41<frosch123>he did not pick 85 though
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06:52<@Alberth>hi hi
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07:12<@Alberth>hi Wolf01
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08:07<@DorpsGek>Commit by frosch :: r25574 /trunk/src (gfx_layout.cpp gfx_layout.h) (2013-07-07 12:07:06 UTC)
08:07<@DorpsGek>-Fix (r25570): Trouble with initialisation order of static members of Layouter and FontCache.
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10:25<LordAro>this... is quite impressive
10:27<Wolf01>yes, it is
10:29<@Alberth>nice :)
10:40<@Alberth>writing an assembler is fun :)
10:41<Wolf01>I did it once, and it was just a logic ic tester
10:41<Eddi|zuHause>not "write in assembler", "write _an_ assembler"
10:42<Eddi|zuHause>as in, the program that transforms assembler code into machine code
10:42<Wolf01>misread, the a and the i are so similar :P
10:43<@Alberth>it's a common mistake
10:43<Eddi|zuHause>grfcodec is some sort of assembler
10:43<@Alberth>input language is quite easy :p
10:44<@Alberth>no labels and constants :)
10:47<Eddi|zuHause>there are jump labels somewhere
10:48*frosch123 approves jumping
10:49<Eddi|zuHause># jump! jump!
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10:49<Eddi|zuHause>man that was aaaages ago
10:49<frosch123>you're an old man
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11:45<alluke>what licence does dutch station set have
11:46<frosch123>does it have a readme or license file?
11:46<alluke>dont know
11:46<alluke>but i modded some platforms for friss and thought id post them to the friss topic
11:46<alluke>without getting trouble
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11:48<frosch123>hmm, yeah, it is not properly licensed
11:48<frosch123>XeryusTC: please add a licence or copying file to the repository
11:49<frosch123>oh, untouched since 2008
11:50<alluke>i think noone minds it since quast made the addition set
11:53<XeryusTC>it has no license? :o
11:54<frosch123> <- nothing there
11:55<XeryusTC>how odd
11:55<XeryusTC>pm must´ve missed that one when he scolded me for not adding licenses to my projects
11:56<alluke>and who drew the canadian stations brick platforms
11:56<frosch123>does it have a readme?
11:57<XeryusTC>btw, dutch station set´s graphics license are a bit weird, they are mb´s original creation, but modified by Purno to look Dutch
11:58<alluke>graphics by lifeblood and oz
11:58<frosch123>alluke: well, then better don't touch either of those sets
11:59<frosch123>dutch not having any licence at all, and canadian for sure non-free
12:00<XeryusTC>for dutch you better ask on the forums, you´ve got my permission to mess with the code, if you dare ;)
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12:11<alluke>ill post the graphics and ask
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13:45<@DorpsGek>Commit by translators :: r25575 /trunk/src/lang (8 files) (2013-07-07 17:45:42 UTC)
13:45<@DorpsGek>-Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
13:45<@DorpsGek>traditional_chinese - 1 changes by siu238X
13:45<@DorpsGek>croatian - 2 changes by VoyagerOne
13:46<@DorpsGek>english_AU - 2 changes by mrtux
13:46<@DorpsGek>japanese - 32 changes by guppy
13:46<@DorpsGek>norwegian_bokmal - 38 changes by cuthbert
13:46<@DorpsGek>slovak - 1 changes by Milsa
13:46<@DorpsGek>tamil - 15 changes by aswn
13:46<@DorpsGek>turkish - 29 changes by emremeydan
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15:04<andythenorth>FIRS: station names from nearby industry
15:04<andythenorth>good or bad?
15:05*andythenorth has to fix missing ones or remove more. Wants opinion.
15:05<alluke>theres error in firs finnish translation
15:06<alluke>lumber yard and sawmill have same names
15:06<andythenorth>Eddi|zuHause ¿ ^^^ I trust your opinion, even if I don't always agree
15:06<andythenorth>alluke: fix it?
15:06<@Alberth>andythenorth: seems somewhat useful to me
15:08<andythenorth>there are 45 missing strings and 38 outdated for Finnish
15:08<@Alberth>and at least 1 wrong translation :p
15:10<alluke>why are ä and ö converted to √§ and √∂ ?
15:10<frosch123>select utf-8 encoding in your browser
15:11<frosch123>"menu->view->character encoding->unicode utf-8" for me
15:11<@Alberth>and please also in your editor
15:12<alluke>ye converted it to utf
15:12<@Alberth>huh? it was already utf-8 :)
15:14<alluke>not here
15:14<frosch123>nah, what albert meant is: the file was already utf-8, and you did not convert it, but you changed the interpretation of the file on your side
15:15<frosch123>basically you switched your os from dos 1990 compatibility to a year 2000 (?) standard
15:17<frosch123>oh, actually unicode is way older
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15:18<andythenorth>does anybody care about cargo payment rates?
15:19<andythenorth>before I spend too long obsessing about them :P
15:19<Adson102>I've opened OpenTTD on android 4.0 tablet... and i have question, is there any possiblity to open cheat window without using ctrl alt c? Cuz i dont have this buttons ! XD
15:20<frosch123>impressive, utf-8 is from 1993
15:20<frosch123>so even more hillarious how certain os still default to 8 bit latin-x encodings
15:21<+glx>frosch123: don't you mean 1250 ?
15:21<frosch123>true :)
15:21<@Alberth>alluke: if you really converted the file, you would now have a broken file (as in doubly encoded)
15:21<alluke>i saved it as utf
15:22<alluke>replaced old one
15:22<+glx>it was already utf8
15:23<@Alberth>alluke: probably a good step, you don't want to save an utf-8 file under another encoding
15:23<+glx>so utf8 opened as latin1 then saved as utf8 is totally broken
15:28<alluke>must i add the missing strings to the file manually
15:33<Adson102>Can i open cheat window using a command ?
15:33<andythenorth>weight and capacity multiplier of coffee cargo? 1.0 for both?
15:34<andythenorth>coffee is pretty light
15:34<andythenorth>then there's the whole volume / weight / units shenanigan :P
15:34*andythenorth needs a collaborator
15:34<frosch123>what kind of coffee?
15:34<+glx>Adson102: we don't support the mobile version
15:34<andythenorth>coffee beans, unit is sacks
15:35<frosch123>still green, or already "baked"?
15:35<andythenorth>green probably
15:35<frosch123>use something between grain and fruit?
15:36<Adson102>Thx ;D so i must play fair o/
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15:36<frosch123>i would think coffee is lighter than grain
15:36<frosch123>but heavier than fruit
15:36<andythenorth>grain + fruit both have weight 1 and cap. multiplier 1
15:36<frosch123>easy pick then :p
15:36<andythenorth>seems so :)
15:37<andythenorth>is easier
15:37<alluke>when will firs get nicer oil refinery and aore mine graphics?
15:37<andythenorth>why does rubber set liquid class only?
15:38<frosch123>alluke: wrong question
15:38<frosch123>andythenorth: because packaged cargo is boring to transport
15:41<andythenorth>good answer
15:41<andythenorth>I doubt it's the actual cause :)
15:41<andythenorth>but nvm
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16:04<andythenorth>I think I'll leave cap and weight at 1 :P
16:06<frosch123>oh wait, it was "bags" right?
16:06<frosch123>then weight should be less :)
16:07<andythenorth>slight difference
16:08<frosch123>doesn't ttd also use bags for mail, instead of sacks?
16:09<frosch123>sounds like timber and lumber to me :p
16:09<andythenorth>coffee bag:
16:09<andythenorth>coffee sacks:
16:10<andythenorth>potato / potato
16:10<andythenorth>herp, now I need to set town effects
16:10<andythenorth>sugar: none
16:10<andythenorth>rubber: none
16:10<andythenorth>diamonds: none
16:10<andythenorth>copper ore: none
16:10<andythenorth>coffee: ?
16:11<frosch123>actually, goods is a silly town effect
16:11<frosch123>no real town effect
16:12<andythenorth>all town effects are a bit zilly imo
16:12<andythenorth>still, we are where we are :)
16:13<andythenorth>frosch123: would you remove TE from goods? o_O
16:13<frosch123>te is abused for 3 different purposes
16:14<frosch123>pax/mail te affects what is shown in town gui statistics (no gameplay effect at all)
16:14<frosch123>water/food is actual gameplay
16:14<frosch123>goods affects subsidy generation
16:14<frosch123>i think the goods thingie is most likely to be dropped at some point, if it actually isn't already
16:15<frosch123>i recall terkhen doing stuff around there
16:15<andythenorth>I didn't know goods affected subsidies
16:15<andythenorth>and I have been playing for....some time :)
16:15<frosch123>andythenorth: never mind, it was already fixed
16:15<frosch123> <- says ottd 0.6-1.1
16:16<andythenorth>so FIRS sets TE water for cargo Goods
16:16<andythenorth>which is pleasing :)
16:16<frosch123>so, goods effect is basically non existent
16:17<Wolf01>good night
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16:17<andythenorth>there are two properties for colour :)
16:17<andythenorth>so station list and cargo chains and payment chart can diverge
16:18<andythenorth>what larks :)
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17:10<andythenorth>changelogs in markdown?
17:10<andythenorth>they're not far off already
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17:49<alluke>why did ai sell its profitable trucks
17:49<Zuu>because some condition told it to sell them
17:50<Zuu>Eg. it may have detected a possible congestion
17:50<alluke>i buit a highway for its vehicles
17:50<alluke>and renewed them
17:51<Zuu>But to get a better answer, you need to tell us which AI you use and probably ask the author of it along with a savegame.
17:51<alluke>and no, i wont bother him with this crap
17:53<__ln__>perhaps the ai hired Elop as the ceo
17:55<alluke>sucks that you cant change ai settings ni-game
17:55<alluke>or wait
17:56<alluke>lets hope ai_developer_tools = true works
17:56<Zuu>alluke: You can change AI settings in game.
17:57<Zuu>Open the AI debug window
17:57<alluke>no, they were all greyed out
17:57<Zuu>Not the AI settings
17:57<Zuu>Use the '?' menu to the far right in the game
17:57<alluke>both were greyed out
17:58<Zuu>In the AI debug window?
17:58<Zuu>Did you first click on the AI "tab"?
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17:58<Zuu>(Those button that has the company colour)
17:58<alluke>they still are
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17:59<alluke>choochoo works
18:00<alluke>the rest dont
18:00<Zuu>Note that AIs and GSs can per setting set a flag if the setting can be changed in-game.
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18:01<alluke>i guess its that
18:02<Zuu>In trunk, I "fixed" that GS settings can be opened in-game via the normal settings window, however after that I noticed that AI settings can't be viewed in-game via the settings window. So its somewhat on my list to also fix the AIs so that you don't need to find the AI debug window to change settings of an AI when the developers has told OpenTTD that settings _can_ be changed.
18:04<Zuu>IIRC, the default is that a setting cannot be changed in-game. For my AIs/GSs, I have enabled that for 99% of my settings. The only case when I haven't is when there is a real reason to dissalow it.
18:05<Zuu>But if the author of other AIs don't see the point of allowing users to change settings, then it will be disabled.
18:05<alluke>which ais are yours?
18:05<Zuu>CluelessPlus, PAXLink, IdleMore and TownCars
18:06<Zuu>And Tutorial AI
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18:11<Zuu>Aditionally, many AIs use SuperLib which is a library with a common base that I use for most of my AIs/GSs. It is a quite fat library with everything from simple helpers up to building a bus stop in a town. (but of course misses a lot of things others may want because they want to do something else than what I did)
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18:32<alluke>zuu you must have had fun while writing cluelessplus
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18:33<Zuu>yes, otherwise I wouldn't have released almost 30 versions of it :-)
18:33<alluke>those debug texts.....
18:34<Zuu>Hmm, anything that stands out?
18:34<Zuu>Other than it calling everything a 'bus' even if it is an aircraft or a truck?
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18:36<alluke>"the ai is so happy with the new hq that it cant think about anything else for a while.."
18:36<Zuu>Ah.. that string is printed if you have the 'slow AI' setting enabled in its settings.
18:37<Zuu>It adds some artificial delays after certain actions. Most noticable while building road. The HQ also has a delay and that debug message :-)
18:37<alluke>whats with the station naming
18:37<alluke>theyre senseless
18:37<Zuu>It stores data in the station names
18:38<alluke>cant it be stored somewhere else
18:38<Zuu>Not as robust as in the station names
18:39<Zuu>CluelessPlus do not store anything in the save game other than the data it store in station and vehicle names. This way, if the AI crashes, I can save the game and reload from that point.
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18:39<Zuu>There doesn't need to be any special recover in that case, just normal save/load.
18:41<Zuu>Btw, the smiley at the end of the station name is not data - only some random letters to make the name unique :-)
18:43<alluke>why not stations default name?
18:45<Zuu>Station names are limited to 31 chars. The default name wouldn't always fit. Also, I'm quite unsure if the AI can get the default string in a such way that it can combine it with another string and set that as station sign.
18:45<Zuu>Also, I find the smiley solution more fun.
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---Logclosed Mon Jul 08 00:00:57 2013