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#openttd IRC Logs for 2013-07-08

---Logopened Mon Jul 08 00:00:57 2013
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02:37<@planetmaker>good morning
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02:51*andythenorth is puzzled by default TTD station name handling
02:51<andythenorth>I thought it used '...Farm' and '...Wells', but seems not
02:56<scshunt>no, that's a GRF
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03:05<Supercheese>surely default TTD had "Wells"
03:05<Supercheese>and "Woods"
03:05<Supercheese>and "Mines"
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03:28<andythenorth>it has Woods and Mines
03:28<andythenorth>I couldn't trigger Wells
03:29<andythenorth>but the naming is random, so maybe if I tried long enough....
03:34<andythenorth>code would know, if I opened it :P
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04:23<Eddi|zuHause>the naming is not random
04:23<Eddi|zuHause>it takes the first name whose condition appplies
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04:32<@planetmaker>and which is not yet taken
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04:47<dihedral>hello
04:48<SamanthaD>question... what ever happened to development on cargodest? I'm looking at the downloads and the latest Debian package seems to be for Lenny?!
04:49<SamanthaD>and it says that it's not been updated since '08
04:49<Zuu>If you want cargodest, try yacd
04:49<Zuu>If cargodist is enough, you can play trunk
04:50<SamanthaD>thanks, Zuu
04:50<Zuu>cargodist do not enforce/request destinations not available in your network, which is the main difference to yacd/cargodest.
04:51<SamanthaD>I'm going to check out yacd
04:51<SamanthaD>I'm guessing cargodest development stalled for some reason and yacd came along to replace it?
05:08<SamanthaD>Zuu: I'm playing with Cargodist now. Thanks for the tip. I'm having fun already!
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05:39<Jomann>jo
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09:08<@Belugas>hello
09:45<Jomann>hey
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12:12<andythenorth>'Plodpool Mines' or 'Plodpool Bauxite Mine' ?
12:12<andythenorth>(etc)
12:21<peter1139>Mines
12:25<@planetmaker>o/ andythenorth
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13:10<andythenorth>would it be interesting if I could provide n station name strings instead of 1?
13:10<andythenorth>only first station gets the name
13:10<andythenorth>and there's no variety
13:10<andythenorth>bit meh
13:10<andythenorth>default game varies them more
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13:13<Eddi|zuHause>that is probably a misperception
13:14<frosch123>most definitely :)
13:14<frosch123>default game does not vary at all
13:26<andythenorth>it doesn't? o_O
13:26<andythenorth>am I about to be schooled?
13:27<@planetmaker>there's a small list of default names which sequentially is checked for applicability
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13:29<andythenorth>so not random
13:30<@planetmaker>not a single bit
13:31<@planetmaker>but it might seem more random. NewGRF names are the first thing to check
13:31<@planetmaker>so if it applies, it is taken. Only then the other default names come into play. In their usual sequence
13:31<@planetmaker>and no-one who doesn't read the code knows their order and condtions ;-)
13:32<andythenorth>hmm
13:32<andythenorth>additonal variety from newgrf is a silly idea then
13:34<@planetmaker>not necessarily. It could still provide more than one name. For stations around them. Or picking one of them in random. Still makes sense
13:34<andythenorth>how is a list returned by a cb? I can't remember enough nfo :P
13:34<andythenorth>seems like we'd have to pack the text stack?
13:36<andythenorth>biab
13:45<@DorpsGek>Commit by translators :: r25576 /trunk/src/lang (dutch.txt japanese.txt) (2013-07-08 17:45:13 UTC)
13:45<@DorpsGek>-Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
13:45<@DorpsGek>dutch - 43 changes by habell
13:45<@DorpsGek>japanese - 420 changes by guppy
13:54<frosch123>andythenorth: i guess a newgrf should not add too much variety there
13:54<frosch123>if you give every industry a specific unique station name, then every station will be named after an industry
13:54<frosch123>which ilkely looks silly
13:55<frosch123>if you instead provide all mines with "mine", all quarries etc with "pond", ...
13:55<frosch123>only one station is names after the industry, while most are not
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13:59<Wolf01>evenink
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14:01<Alberth>o/
14:01-!-Alberth is now known as frosch123
14:08<@planetmaker>:D
14:10<frosch123>sometimes you have to fill in for someone missing
14:23<Wolf01>:D
14:37<Wolf01>http://collegedegreesearch.net/10-most-bizarre-skycraper-designs-ever-realized/ new buildings for TT (one of them it's already there, guess which one=
14:37<Wolf01>)
14:44<frosch123>it's getting more dirty
14:44<frosch123>it needs a washing
14:51<andythenorth>frosch123: so are you in favour of '...Mines' or '...Bauxite Mine' ? :)
14:51<andythenorth>FIRS currently does the second, but somehow it bugs me
14:51<@planetmaker>andythenorth, 'mine' is a default name already. No need to supply it (too)
14:52<@planetmaker>In order to distinguish it, it would need to be 'Bauxite Mine' or similar
14:52<andythenorth>so no change for FIRS industries that already have a station name
14:52<@planetmaker>likely it would be no error to also supply 'Mine', but it probably has the potential to create then two identically-named stations
14:52<andythenorth>and add more in the same pattern...
14:52<frosch123>andythenorth: i am against "bauxite mine", it's too specific
14:53<@planetmaker>frosch123, for a specific industry?
14:53<@planetmaker>there are stations like "VW, gate 3"
14:53<andythenorth>I find it weird
14:53<frosch123>a name should not be specific to a single industry
14:53<andythenorth>station name shouldn't exactly equal industry name
14:53<frosch123>instead multiple similar types should share the same name
14:54<@planetmaker>why?
14:54<frosch123>like quary pit, dreding site, was there a third one?
14:54<andythenorth>as much as anything, the station is often near multiple industries, and the name is simply wrong
14:54<frosch123>planetmaker: it adds to the variety
14:54<andythenorth>the more specific it is, the more silly the wrong is
14:54<@planetmaker>in the sense that newgrf names are not used that often? That, yes
14:54<andythenorth>frosch123: all farms get '...Farm' ?
14:54<andythenorth>all plantations '...Plantation' ?
14:55<frosch123>something like that, yes :)
14:55<frosch123>hmm, tt-foundry is only down for me :(
14:55<andythenorth>no, down for all
14:56<andythenorth>it's deprecated anyway
14:56<andythenorth>use docs on bundles
14:56<frosch123>oj
14:56<andythenorth>http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/firs/push/LATEST/docs
14:57<frosch123>http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/firs <- still links tt-foundry
14:57<@planetmaker>settings -> description allows to change it
14:58<andythenorth>I don't want to overthink this :)
14:58<frosch123>andythenorth: you could also add some fake names
14:58<andythenorth>in some respect, I would happily delegate this to whoever has commit rights :P
14:58<andythenorth>the station names have always been a bit 'meh' for me
14:58<andythenorth>and I have to field complaints about them :)
14:58<frosch123>like "store" -> "precinct"
14:58<andythenorth>frosch123: good idea
14:59<andythenorth>hmm
14:59*andythenorth ponders evil
14:59<andythenorth>use the wrong town name, deliberately :P
14:59<andythenorth>this all relates to https://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/6143
14:59<andythenorth>which supercheese raised
15:00<frosch123>metal workshop -> "industiral area" or similar
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15:01<andythenorth>planetmaker: want to fix this? I don't mind if you carry on with the current method
15:01<frosch123>anyway, i guess there are better slang names for typical stations in certain town areas
15:01<frosch123>in german i would suggest to use "Zeche" for some mines
15:01<@planetmaker>andythenorth, you mean station names?
15:01<@planetmaker>I fear I totally lost knowledge how FIRS code works
15:02<frosch123>smithy forge -> "horse market"
15:02<frosch123>generally: resusing the industrry name for the station is boring
15:02<frosch123>it should be a related but different term
15:03<andythenorth>I am +0.5 to that
15:03<andythenorth>I like it, but thinking of names is hard :)
15:03<andythenorth>and translating them too :)
15:03<andythenorth>the second is not my problem :P
15:03<@planetmaker>I can try come up with a list of names
15:04<andythenorth>planetmaker: https://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/firs/repository/entry/src/industries/arable_farm.py
15:04<andythenorth>l39
15:05<andythenorth>or l29 here: https://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/firs/repository/entry/src/industries/steel_mill.py
15:05<andythenorth>the steel mill uses 'Mills' rather than 'Steel Mill'
15:05<@planetmaker>I see. Sounds feasible
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15:07*planetmaker visits docs to get an industry overview :D
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15:13<@planetmaker>andythenorth, what's the purpose of "fibre crop farm location checks disabled" being issued upon compilation of FIRS?
15:14<andythenorth>reminder to me
15:14<andythenorth>sometimes I need a fast compile
15:14<andythenorth>which I can do with TEST_INDUSTRY=foo thing
15:14<andythenorth>but I have to disable location checks for that to work
15:14<andythenorth>so I leave a breadcrumb
15:14<andythenorth>I should fix it :P
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15:20<frosch123> http://paste.openttdcoop.org/show/2375/ <- planetmaker: suggestion for german industry names
15:20<frosch123>sometimes mislabeled on purpose :)
15:20<andythenorth>frosch123: that will never fly with our community :)
15:20<andythenorth>"No, it must be logical and realistic" :)
15:20<andythenorth>"What is this 'imagination' you speak of?"
15:20<frosch123>no, it should be entertaining
15:21<andythenorth>"I have heard of a strange concept: humour. Explain please"
15:21<frosch123>people should wonder whether it is random or intentional
15:21<frosch123>most users probably have no idea that industries can supply station names
15:21<andythenorth>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hHkKJfcBXcw
15:21<frosch123>that's why the gamemechanics page on the wiki is the most fun-breaking site of all
15:22<frosch123>it would be way more interesting if that site would not be accurate, but partly misleading
15:22<frosch123>games are for exploring and trying stuff
15:22<andythenorth>+1
15:22<andythenorth>I have kept FIRS docs minimal
15:22<andythenorth>no intro dates
15:22<andythenorth>no 'please play it like this'
15:23<andythenorth>etc
15:23<andythenorth>mostly just lists of stuff that it's boring to hunt for in the game
15:23<andythenorth>hmm
15:23<andythenorth>Kraftwerk
15:24<andythenorth>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sQz-CZvkY8k
15:24<@planetmaker>frosch123, you'd never find a station "Sandbank". Rather you call it simply "Sand"
15:24<andythenorth>Sandbank would be good for UK
15:24<@planetmaker>in the sense of "Sand" as a transient island rather than sand
15:25<andythenorth>lots of fishing is on ...Banks
15:25<andythenorth>dredging too
15:25<@planetmaker>but I like the list :-)
15:26<frosch123>planetmaker: yes, that's one of those mislabeling
15:26<frosch123>you would never consider a dredging site a station
15:26<frosch123>but the localtion where the dredging site is, might have a local naming
15:26<andythenorth>+1
15:26<andythenorth>'shallows'
15:26<andythenorth>'deeps'
15:26<andythenorth>'banks'
15:26<andythenorth>'flats'
15:26<@planetmaker>that would also be "Sand". No name is "Sandbank" in the Wattenmeer
15:27<andythenorth>'bay'
15:27<frosch123>also fine :)
15:27<frosch123>my favourite is still the first one :p "aluminum plant" -> "power plant" :p
15:27<@planetmaker>I ponder replacing "auf dem Acker" by "three Oaks" or so
15:28<andythenorth>is that for forest?
15:28<@planetmaker>hehe, yes, that's good :-)
15:28<@planetmaker>andythenorth, for farms
15:28<frosch123>andythenorth: farm
15:28<andythenorth>'fields'
15:28<andythenorth>'manor'
15:28<andythenorth>'estate'
15:28<@planetmaker>I can't imagine a bus stop being called "fields" or so. Manor... yes, estate,...
15:29<@planetmaker>from my school bus route, there was stations in the middle of nowhere. They were like "three oaks" and alike
15:29<@planetmaker>"Willow road"
15:29<@planetmaker>etc
15:29<andythenorth>http://www.tfl.gov.uk/tfl/gettingaround/maps/buses/tfl-bus-map/text/stopinfo.aspx?s=11406&r=C2
15:29<andythenorth>in soviet google, everything has a counter example
15:29<andythenorth>:)
15:30<@planetmaker>:-)
15:30<Rubidium>andythenorth: but it isn't called <location> Fields, it's just called <location>
15:30<andythenorth>point
15:32<frosch123>planetmaker: andythenorth: anyway, most of those names are not directly translatable. e.g. "kruppstraße" and "dieselstraße" are faily common in industrial areas here, but likely not outside germany :) you have to translate using another national industrial guy
15:32<@planetmaker>yeah, I see :-)
15:33<@planetmaker>but it's a very good start, that list, frosch123 :-)
15:34<andythenorth>the default game names - does it actually check for height when setting 'Heights'? o_O
15:35<frosch123>yes
15:35<frosch123>height relative to town sign
15:35<andythenorth>neat
15:37<frosch123>http://hg.openttd.org/openttd/trunk.hg/file/768f065ac1a9/src/station_cmd.cpp#l227
15:38*planetmaker discovers new English words
15:39<@planetmaker>"delf" anyone?
15:39<frosch123>special rules for airports, woods (trees, not forest industry), mine, central, lake, height, north/south/west/east
15:39<frosch123>planetmaker: are you trying to translate the list to english? :)
15:40<andythenorth>delf is new to me
15:40<andythenorth>sounds dutch
15:41<@planetmaker>frosch123, the sectioning makes sense to me
15:41<frosch123>hmm?
15:41<@planetmaker>dutch town uses an additional 't'.
15:41<@planetmaker>section or assignment of names to industries as grouped by you
15:42<frosch123>ah :)
15:42<@planetmaker>but yes, then I need to find some sensible names for it in English
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15:42<@planetmaker>andythenorth, 'delf' is given as british english... for 'mine' :D
15:42<@planetmaker>obviously not
15:42<frosch123>i would try to assign that task to a native speaker :)
15:42<andythenorth>it seems to be a rare use
15:42<@DorpsGek>Commit by rubidium :: r25577 trunk/src/script/api/script_list.hpp (2013-07-08 19:42:39 UTC)
15:42<@DorpsGek>-Fix-ish [FS#5638] (r20562): [Script] Documentation implied that XXList::AddItem has a default for value if it isn't filled in.
15:43<@planetmaker>frosch123, but it needs ... some initial names. at least
15:44<Rubidium>I think we are now well overshot for 6400h
15:44<frosch123>planetmaker: i wondered about a term for the food processing section
15:45<frosch123>maybe "Mühle" or so
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15:45<frosch123>though "Pferdemarkt" is also nice for the stockyard :p
15:45<Rubidium>Schweinenmarkt
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15:47<frosch123>haaimarkt
15:49<@planetmaker>yeah, I had "Alte Mühle" or so in my mind for mill, food processing and maybe some inner-town small stuff, too
15:50<@planetmaker>Pferdemarkt is awesome
15:52<andythenorth>I would consider leaving names off the town industries
15:52<andythenorth>they seem to annoy players
15:53<@planetmaker>o.m.g. There are books... dedicated to street names. Only street names
15:53<frosch123>i don't think so, you just have to give them town-like station names
15:54<@planetmaker>^ yes, I think so, too
15:54<frosch123>planetmaker: there are books only for phone numbers
15:54<@planetmaker>:-)
15:54<frosch123>i assume you didn't mean a "Straßenverzeichnis"
15:54<@planetmaker>I want a statistics on the probability of street names in Britain ;-)
15:55<@planetmaker>but found things like http://www.fun-with-words.com/review_street_names_england.html
16:03<frosch123>planetmaker: oh, btw. not all books about names are useful
16:04<frosch123>i for once looked up the surname "Aulbach", and the book said "quite common name around Aschaffenburg"... yeah, exactly! that's why i am looking it up :p
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16:05*andythenorth is about to break FIRS compiles :P
16:05<@planetmaker>haha, frosch123 :-)
16:06<andythenorth>can anyone stick python markdown on devzone bundle server?
16:06<andythenorth>https://pypi.python.org/pypi/Markdown
16:10<frosch123>http://daringfireball.net/projects/markdown/index.text <- someone is using tab with 4
16:11<frosch123>planetmaker: oh, btw. i wanted to ask
16:11<frosch123>what database does devzone's redmine use?
16:11<frosch123>do you also use mysql?
16:11<@planetmaker>yes
16:11<@planetmaker>afaik
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16:11<frosch123>ok, i should switch my test server then :p
16:11<@planetmaker>and... mines will have station names 'Tanner road' :D
16:12<@planetmaker>(Gerberstraße)
16:12<frosch123>i started with postgresql without any considertation
16:12<frosch123>and since then i switched every thing from mysql to postgres :üp
16:12<frosch123>eints, bananas, redmine ... :p
16:12<@planetmaker>:-P
16:14<@planetmaker>andythenorth, industry do not need that property defined, right?
16:14<andythenorth>planetmaker: which prop? Station name?
16:17<frosch123>night
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16:18<alluke>http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=34e_1373120565 cant help laughing
16:23<@planetmaker>yes, station name, andythenorth
16:23<andythenorth>optional prop
16:24<@planetmaker>but seems like it's not needed... found several instances where it's not declared yet
16:24<andythenorth>is there some file that specifies the bundle server config per project?
16:24<andythenorth>I recall Ammler explaining it to me more than once
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16:24<Eddi|zuHause><frosch123> if you instead provide all mines with "mine", all quarries etc with "pond", ... <-- mind you that all industried must return the same "mines" string-ID, not different strings which all contain "mines". or you'll have 10 stations named "mines" in the same city
16:25<andythenorth>yup
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16:41<@planetmaker>andythenorth, FIRS is broken :-)
16:42<andythenorth>I know :)
16:42<Eddi|zuHause>andythenorth: you can modify many things in the .devzone directory
16:44<Eddi|zuHause>for example, CETS uses a customized nml.spec file, to change some of the processing options
16:45<andythenorth>Eddi|zuHause: looking now
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17:27<Wolf01>'night
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17:30<andythenorth>bye
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19:07<Midnightmyth_>hmm just installed openttd on a win8 machine
19:07<Midnightmyth_>text is wayyy to small
19:07<Midnightmyth_>any hints?
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19:31<Midnightmyth_>anyone know what the default font is?
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19:56<alluke>no idea
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20:06<+glx>default font is from sprites except if one strings contains chars not available in sprites
20:06<+glx>then openttd search on the system
20:07<+glx>Midnightmyth_: http://wiki.openttd.org/FAQ_troubleshooting#My_User_Interface_is_too_small_to_read_.2F_My_font_is_unreadable_or_faulty
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---Logclosed Tue Jul 09 00:00:59 2013