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#openttd IRC Logs for 2013-07-09

---Logopened Tue Jul 09 00:00:59 2013
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04:24<dihedral>greetings
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04:28<@planetmaker>moin
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05:21<Eddi|zuHause>hm... i would report a spam at the german forum, but the report button only works with javascript enabled...
05:27<Xaroth|Work>I should fetch me a trunk checkout if I want to go fiddle more with libottdadmin2 :o
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05:33<Xaroth|Work>interesting
05:34<Xaroth|Work>one needs a graphics set, even though you do not use a video driver (or sound, or music for that matter)
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05:50<Eddi|zuHause>yes, there is stuff like mapgen-heightmaps in there
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05:55<peter1139>which hardly anyone uses
05:55<peter1139>cos it's not used by tgp
06:02<Eddi|zuHause>minor details... :p
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06:59<zooks>can anyone point me to the code where the pathfinder selects a random direction (if the vehicle has no orders)?
07:00<@planetmaker>Xaroth, yes... we would need to remove the original mapgen (difficult) or move those sprites elsewhere
07:00<@planetmaker>zooks, there's no random :-)
07:00<zooks>isn't that (pseudo) random behaviour?
07:01<@planetmaker>I'm not entirely sure, but I would not think so. The files should be src/pathfinder
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07:13<Eddi|zuHause>zooks: i think it deterministically picks the trackbit with the lowest number
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09:44<@Belugas>hello
09:51<Bulwersator>hello
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10:00<andythenorth>silly rabbit
10:00<andythenorth>Diamonds travel in bags, not tonnes
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10:04<Xaroth|Work>they don't?
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11:32<Xaroth|Work>planetmaker: took me a while, but yes, there's been some changes to the admin port that libottdadmin does not handle
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11:32*Xaroth|Work is putting that into v2
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11:34<@planetmaker>:-)
11:35<Xaroth|Work>hm, the version name is trimmed
11:35<Xaroth|Work>how lame
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11:43<frosch123>aw, planetmaker answered in the ttdp forum thiniking it is about ottd
11:43<frosch123>when will he get flamed? :)
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11:46<Xaroth|Work>epic popcorn moment \o/
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11:57<@planetmaker>oh, hi, frosch123 :-) Indeed I didn't notice
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11:59<@planetmaker>I'll spam-bin my posting :D
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12:03<andythenorth>o/
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12:04<frosch123>moin pm, andy :)
12:05<@planetmaker>hi andythenorth :-)
12:05<andythenorth>planetmaker: for quarry / clay pits 'pits' and 'workings' both make sense in British English
12:06<andythenorth>also 'works' covers all kinds of factory-type industries
12:07<andythenorth>frosch123: any opinion on returning a list of possible station names, instead of just one?
12:07<andythenorth>I am wondering if it's quite easy to extend the property, or provide it as a cb
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12:09<@planetmaker>aye, ok. So I take it that 'pit' as I used now is fine :-)
12:09<andythenorth>yes
12:10<andythenorth>'pit' is also ok for deep mines in British English
12:10<andythenorth>hmm
12:10<@planetmaker>hm, I didn't know that :-)
12:11<scshunt>a pit mine usually means specifically an open mine
12:11<andythenorth>not where I grew up
12:11<scshunt>really?
12:12<andythenorth>http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/nottinghamshire/8639106.stm
12:12<andythenorth>pits have a pithead
12:12<andythenorth>which is at the top of the mineshaft
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12:12<andythenorth>planetmaker: maybe better in coop channel - but is there a bad bus factor with Ammler missing?
12:13<andythenorth>does anyone know what happened to him?
12:13<andythenorth>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bus_factor <- for those not familiar
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12:19<frosch123>andythenorth: purchase list callback should work
12:20<andythenorth>industry has purchase list? :o
12:20<andythenorth>or I misunderstand? :)
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12:20<frosch123>i mean cargotype 0xFF, no industry variables accessible etc
12:21<frosch123>we could also make a town callback
12:21<frosch123>for inner-town names
12:21<andythenorth>return value would be the list, or a single name?
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12:21<frosch123>resolving the name should be a single callback
12:22<frosch123>first guess would be something like cargo subtypes :p
12:22<frosch123>name generation calls callback while iterating a index until it fails
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12:22<frosch123>later one the callback is called with the same id whenever the name is needed
12:23<frosch123>should work fine as long as you keep the realism junkies out, who want to use a certain name only during some years
12:23<andythenorth>ugh
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12:23<frosch123>and want to autorename lenin station to ruble station in 1990 or so
12:23<andythenorth>yes
12:24<andythenorth>I was considering naming stations "the people's metal-converting industry fourteenth district #27"
12:24<andythenorth>but of course, I could just name the industries that way :P
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12:26<frosch123>hai
12:26<@Alberth>hi
12:27<@planetmaker>hi
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12:28<andythenorth>oh hai Alberth
12:28<@Alberth>haio to you too :)
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12:35<andythenorth>planetmaker: cement plant -> kilns
12:36<@planetmaker>as temporal succession?
12:37<andythenorth>station name
12:37<andythenorth>'plant' might also fit some industries
12:38<@planetmaker>yes. but wasn't the idea to reduce names?
12:38<@Alberth>isn't "kilns" shorter than "cement plant"? :p
12:39<@planetmaker>:-) both get in my patch the station name 'industrial estate' or so
12:40<andythenorth>I think we can reduce groups of industry to one name
12:40<andythenorth>dunno how many groups there are though
12:40<@planetmaker>http://devs.openttd.org/~planetmaker/patches/index.php?source=firs_station_names.diff @ Alberth
12:41<@planetmaker>andythenorth, look in the english.lng. That's the amount of different names I introduced
12:41<@planetmaker>I only left out very few industries which get no special station name at all
12:41<andythenorth>ho ho
12:41<@planetmaker>mostly the wood ones
12:41<andythenorth>I'm just going to leave all this to you :)
12:41<@planetmaker>not good. you're the native speaker :D
12:42<andythenorth>yeah...but overhinking it is silly :)
12:42<andythenorth>thinking *
12:42<andythenorth>we can ship it, and players will have their say
12:42<@Alberth> :Sandbank -> :Lake side ?
12:42<@planetmaker>btw, what I noticed during writing this: the properties in the single industries don't follow a common order
12:42<andythenorth>yes
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12:42<andythenorth>I wondered about cleaning that up
12:42<andythenorth>mght be tmwftlb
12:43<@planetmaker>Alberth, well... not lake side. sea side rather :-)
12:43<andythenorth>I think the order is legacy all the way back to nfo
12:43<@Alberth>andy makes unique industries in many different aspects :)
12:43-!-Rubidium_ is now known as Rubidium
12:44<@planetmaker>indeed, he does :-)
12:44<@Alberth>perhaps sort the new strings?
12:45<@planetmaker>Alberth, yes, that definitely needs doing
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12:45<andythenorth>I try and keep groups of strings alphabetised
12:45<@planetmaker>it's not yet ready for commit. Just a draft to discuss names
12:45<andythenorth>much easier to work with
12:45<@planetmaker>and possibly assignment of those to industries
12:49<@Alberth>naming a station for a aluminium plant a "powerplant" seems wrong :)
12:50<@planetmaker>complain to the green-skinned person here ;-) But I like it
12:50<@planetmaker>I also assigned that to steel mill
12:52<@Alberth>only entry/leave/rename messages are green in this window :p
12:54<@Alberth>a mill for brick works? are the brick works moved to an old mill perhaps?
12:54<@planetmaker>well... going by nicknames, you're green and frog is yellow ;-)
12:54<@planetmaker>Alberth, it's station names... historic name :-)
12:55<@planetmaker>'Old townhall', 'mill', 'Oude Kerk', ... :-)
12:55<@Alberth>sounds ok
12:56<@planetmaker>that was the thinking behind these not-fitting station names
12:56<@Alberth>you could name a few mines also "pit"
12:56<andythenorth>also it's a nice troll on 'unrealistic' :P
12:57<@planetmaker>yeah, I just learned today that mines are also called pit in BE. I'll actually do that, Alberth :-)
12:58<@Alberth>afaik "pit" just means "big hole in the ground", right? :)
12:58<@planetmaker><andythenorth> http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/nottinghamshire/8639106.stm
12:59<@planetmaker>in BE it obviously can also be sub-surface miens
12:59<@planetmaker>*mines
13:04*Alberth was wondering how Belgium was involved here, until I realized BE means UK :)
13:05<@planetmaker>ups :-)
13:05<Rubidium>might it not just mean Brittish English?
13:05<@planetmaker>yes, I got that abbreviation from my dictionary
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13:07<LordAro>heyo
13:07<@Alberth>ohai
13:07<@planetmaker>hi LordAro
13:08<LordAro>hai Alberth & planetmaker :)
13:08<@planetmaker>and bye for now... see you in an hour maybe :-)
13:09<LordAro>D:
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13:45<@DorpsGek>Commit by translators :: r25578 /trunk/src/lang (7 files) (2013-07-09 17:45:43 UTC)
13:45<@DorpsGek>-Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
13:45<@DorpsGek>czech - 6 changes by Eskymak
13:45<@DorpsGek>hungarian - 1 changes by Brumi
13:46<@DorpsGek>japanese - 262 changes by guppy
13:46<@DorpsGek>polish - 6 changes by wojteks86
13:46<@DorpsGek>portuguese - 61 changes by JayCity
13:46<@DorpsGek>brazilian_portuguese - 48 changes by Tucalipe
13:46<@DorpsGek>slovak - 2 changes by Milsa
13:47<@planetmaker>re hi
13:49<@Alberth>hi hi again
13:49<LordAro>hai :)
13:54<@Terkhen>hello
13:54<@planetmaker>hi Terkhen
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14:53<@Alberth>hi Wolf01
14:53<Wolf01>hello o/
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15:14<Xaroth|Work>planetmaker: what did you plan on having libottdadmin do anyhow?
15:14<Xaroth|Work>relay chat?
15:15<@planetmaker>There's a few things I would need:
15:15<@planetmaker>a) relay chat
15:15<@planetmaker>b) provide logs of what was done by whom ingame, including connection data (IP, nickname)
15:16<@planetmaker>c) provide configuration / rcon via IRC to IRC ops
15:16<Xaroth|Work>rgr
15:16<@planetmaker>d) provide the revision of the openttd version currently run (-> download link)
15:17<@planetmaker>e) update openttd to new revision
15:17<Xaroth|Work>wait what?
15:17<@planetmaker>This all of course is a bit beyond what libottdadmin can do itself
15:17<Xaroth|Work>well, a-c is doable
15:17<@planetmaker>but what would fit into a supybot openttd plugin :-)
15:17<Xaroth|Work>heck, i just tested rcon :P
15:17<@planetmaker>a) and c) is the really important things
15:17<TWerkhoven>he wants replacement for autopilot basically
15:17<Xaroth|Work>d .. might work
15:18<@planetmaker>Xaroth, we always can ammend openttd source :-P
15:18<@Alberth>TWerkhoven: join the fun, code some parts of it
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15:18<TWerkhoven>im already busy learning python
15:18<Xaroth|Work>planetmaker: https://github.com/Xaroth/libottdadmin2/
15:18<Xaroth|Work>work in progress still
15:18<@Alberth>TWerkhoven: good good
15:19<TWerkhoven>the last coding i did was c++ and vbasic, both of which were over 10y ago
15:19<@Alberth>lots of Python projects here that need improvements :)
15:19<Xaroth|Work>python is a fun language
15:19<@planetmaker>:-)
15:19<@planetmaker>yeah
15:20<@Alberth>much easier to use than c++. Don't know about vbasic (never used it)
15:20<@Alberth>which might be a good thing :p
15:21<Xaroth|Work>depends if it's .net or not .net tbh
15:21<TWerkhoven>it was vb6
15:21<Xaroth|Work>>_<
15:21<@planetmaker>why a completely new repo, Xaroth ?
15:21<Xaroth|Work>on error resume next
15:21<Xaroth|Work>planetmaker: because it's a complete rewrite
15:21<TWerkhoven>tried a bit c# just for fun, but just didnt have much to create at the time
15:21<Xaroth|Work>and i prefer github over bitbucket
15:21<TWerkhoven>lol, just as well i didnt start then
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15:22<Xaroth|Work>there's still a few dozen things that need to be rewritten
15:22<Xaroth|Work>but the start is there
15:23<Xaroth|Work>it can connect, it can send stuff
15:23*andythenorth wonders what next
15:23<Xaroth|Work>(lots need documentation as well)
15:23<andythenorth>this 'station names are a list' thing? o_O
15:23<Xaroth|Work>nope
15:23<Xaroth|Work>libottdadmin2
15:23<TWerkhoven>so whats up there of your rewrite would be sufficient to set up a connection and send rcon commands?
15:23<Xaroth|Work>or rather, the packets sent/received from/to openttd
15:24<Xaroth|Work>from libottdadmin2.client import * ; a = AdminConnection(password="<admin_port_password>") ; a.connect(host)
15:24<Xaroth|Work>but AdminConnection is basically a wrapper around socket.socket
15:25<Xaroth|Work>it has 2 main functions; send_packet and recv_packet
15:25<TWerkhoven>it simplifies stuff for ppl who are new to sockets though
15:25<Xaroth|Work>the first takes the packet class as first arg, then kwargs for that packet
15:25<Xaroth|Work>as in: a.send_packet(AdminRcon, command="say test")
15:26<Xaroth|Work>recv_packet returns None if something went wrong, else (<packet type>, {data})
15:26<Xaroth|Work>though I've added a simple event system to it as well
15:26<Xaroth|Work>so you can just subscribe to those to receive packets
15:27<Xaroth|Work>(authentication works by that same method)
15:27<TWerkhoven>the logging is a nice touch as well
15:28<Xaroth|Work>blatantly ripped from my home-built download system
15:28<Xaroth|Work>mixins are too damn useful for that
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15:29<Xaroth|Work>o/ glx
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16:27<Xaroth|Work>planetmaker: got proof-of-concept for one of the points already: https://github.com/Xaroth/libottdadmin2/blob/master/bin/openttd-admin-rcon.py
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16:37<Eddi|zuHause>so... that was cherry picking...
16:38<@planetmaker>hm, Xaroth :-)
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16:40<Xaroth|Work>bit crude approach, but it works
16:48<NGC3982_>Evening
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16:54<frosch123>night
16:54<andythenorth>small planes
16:54<andythenorth>perfect for Diamonds
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17:24<Eddi|zuHause>"how snowden would have to fly from moscow to venezuela" http://www.spiegel.de/politik/ausland/bild-910213-518756.html
17:27<Rubidium>is that safe?
17:27<Rubidium>isn't the US going to intercept such a plane?
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17:32<andythenorth>bed
17:32<andythenorth>bye
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17:36<Eddi|zuHause>Rubidium: obama specifically said that he'd not send jets to intercept such a plane
17:38<Eddi|zuHause>that was before they blocked the air route for the bolivian president
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17:40<NGC3982_>I love where this is going.
17:41<@planetmaker>venecuela?
17:41<Eddi|zuHause>i hate that they're trying to spin the personal snowden story instead of working through what was actually published
17:41<Eddi|zuHause>planetmaker: with a z most definitely
17:42<Eddi|zuHause>"Rep├║blica Bolivariana de Venezuela"
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17:56<@planetmaker>good night
17:57<LordAro>night all
17:59<__ln__>will putin let snowden leave though?
18:02<Eddi|zuHause>why wouldn't he?
18:03<__ln__>because he could exchange him for almost anything with the US.
18:03<__ln__>e.g. alaska.
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18:13<Eddi|zuHause>what would the russians do with alsaska? they have sibiria, it looks exactly the same there :p
18:15<NGC3982_>One could imply that a Russian Alaska would be quite the strategical stand-point.
18:17<Eddi|zuHause>NGC3982_: well the joke is that the russians sold alaska to the USA for that exact reason back in the 19th century
18:17<NGC3982_>Oh.
18:17<NGC3982_>:D.
18:17<NGC3982_>I'm quite glad that the US and Russia are not next to each other.
18:18<NGC3982_>They would war, and war, and war again.
18:18<Eddi|zuHause>this way they're actually closer together
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18:19<Eddi|zuHause>the bering strait is narrower than the distance between alaska and washington state
18:27<Wolf01>'night
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18:43<Sacro>@seen Bjarni
18:43<@DorpsGek>Sacro: Bjarni was last seen in #openttd 1 year, 39 weeks, 3 days, 22 hours, 24 minutes, and 39 seconds ago: <Bjarni> heh
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19:29<Nat_aS>Sarah Palen can see Russia from her house
19:31<NGC3982_>Palin*
19:33<NGC3982_>Something tells me my girlfriend fed the cats with milk today
19:33<NGC3982_>Since i just came from a serious diarrhea cleanup.
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19:34<Eddi|zuHause>doesn't quite fit together...
19:34<NCG3982>Cats are unfortunately lactose intolerant by nature.
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19:35<Eddi|zuHause>not that i'm an expert on cat health issues
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19:46<peter1139>Never stopped my cat enjoying milk..
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19:47<Eddi|zuHause>there are different levels of lactose intolerance
19:47<NCG3982>Of course.
19:47<NCG3982>And i actually do not think intolerance is the right word to use
19:47<Eddi|zuHause>the lowest level is just not being able to process it. which applies to pretty much all human adults
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19:51<NCG3982>Bah, i don't wish to work tomorrow.
19:51<NCG3982>Please, stand in for me.
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---Logclosed Wed Jul 10 00:00:01 2013