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#openttd IRC Logs for 2013-07-10

---Logopened Wed Jul 10 00:00:01 2013
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03:39<dihedral>good morning
03:47<Xaroth|Work>morning dih
03:49<Xaroth|Work>planetmaker: suggestion for admin port; a ping packet.. only arg being a uint<something> that is returned by the server
03:50<@planetmaker>moin
03:50<Xaroth|Work>serves multiple purposes; on some commands like rcon you get an N amount of lines back, so you can follow the rcon with a ping, and know when the rcon command is 'done'
03:50<@planetmaker>Xaroth, I guess it makes send
03:50<Xaroth|Work>also, it allows to check the connection's latency
03:50<@planetmaker>s/send/sense/
03:51<@planetmaker>isn't the rcon output sent in one packet?
03:51<Xaroth|Work>nope
03:51<Xaroth|Work>i got one packet per line
03:51<Xaroth|Work>(sending list_cmds as command)
03:51<@planetmaker>aye
03:52<Xaroth|Work>some commands could potentially send more than one line
03:52<@planetmaker>I guess it wouldn't even need a protocoll change
03:52<@planetmaker>I'm not opposed to that idea
03:52<Xaroth|Work>just a new packet .. bump a value somewhere to indicate it's supported, and you're done
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03:54<@planetmaker>you want to write the patch? :-)
03:54<@planetmaker>I'll sign-off
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03:55<Xaroth|Work>heh, you sure you want to do that to the codebase? :P
03:55<Xaroth|Work>(I'll give it a go)
03:57<@planetmaker>:-)
03:58<NCG3982>http://i.imgur.com/DLSNAaZ.jpg
04:02<dihedral>admin port
04:02<dihedral>?
04:02<dihedral>i see admin port chat :-)
04:04<dihedral>ping and pong - i'm in on that :-)
04:04<dihedral>Xaroth|Work, do you have connection issues on the admin port?
04:04<dihedral>or what is your intention with the ping on the admin port
04:04<Xaroth|Work>dihedral: mainly I want to see what kind of response time there is
04:04<Xaroth|Work>and there are ways, sure
04:04<Xaroth|Work>rcon echo
04:05<Xaroth|Work>also ( https://github.com/xaroth/libottdadmin2 )
04:05<Xaroth|Work>also, as an added bonus, rcon commands send N lines back
04:05<Xaroth|Work>and there's no EOL packet to indicate when it's done
04:06<dihedral>true
04:06<Xaroth|Work>mind, that last bit is a bit hackish
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04:06<dihedral>but that is because the admin port does not know when it is done
04:06<Xaroth|Work>and it would be nice for rcon and the likes to tell you when it's done :P
04:07<dihedral>the implementation works with a type of call back (iirc) that works through the same method used to print on the console
04:07<dihedral>and if you fire of two rcon commands on the admin port - how will you know which eol packet belongs to which rcon command?
04:08<dihedral>that is the tricky part
04:08<Xaroth|Work>returning the command as it was sent?
04:08<dihedral>at least in that case
04:08<Xaroth|Work>I mean..
04:08<dihedral>but the command is redirected to the console stuff...
04:09<dihedral>if you receive console updates on the admin port, and someone goes directly to the console on command line and runs commands, you also receive the output
04:09<dihedral>this implementation in that case is not aware of commands and outputs
04:09<dihedral>it only knows the console on a per line bases
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04:10<dihedral>how would you measure latency?
04:10<Xaroth|Work>doesn't IConsoleCmdExec() return when it's done with the command?
04:11<dihedral>send ping with timestamp and receive pong with servers timestamp?
04:11<Xaroth|Work>more simple, send ping with a an int<something> .. server responds with that same payload
04:11<Xaroth|Work>client can then figure it all out
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04:11<Xaroth|Work>i ping 1, server pongs 1
04:11<Xaroth|Work>i ping 1337, server pongs 1337
04:12<dihedral>how will you figure out the result with that??
04:12<Xaroth|Work>start = datetime.now() ; send(); wait-for-pong; latency = datetime.now() - start
04:14<dihedral>aye
04:14*dihedral smirks
04:15<@planetmaker>not?
04:15<Xaroth|Work>there's not much of a use case in knowing microsecond-precision of the connection
04:15<Xaroth|Work>there is, however, a use case in knowing how long it'll take the server to respond to a command
04:17<Xaroth|Work>also, re: EOL for rcon.. unless IConsoleCmdExec does some magic; Receive_ADMIN_RCON can send an extra packet after it's done with IConsoleCmdExec
04:19<dihedral>i think those are two nice additions
04:20*dihedral updates his svn checkout :-D
04:20<Xaroth|Work>one requires a change of the protocol though
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04:21<Xaroth|Work>the ping, well, you can add a feature marker or something to indicate it's there .. but if you're bumping the protocol anyhow :P
04:22<@planetmaker>what requires a protocol bump? Did I miss sth?
04:22<Xaroth|Work>the EOL for rcon
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04:22<Xaroth|Work>and only the protocol version for the admin port, so it's not -that- dramatic :P
04:22<@planetmaker>ah
04:22<dihedral>but other clients would still be able to handle it, as they could simply ignore the EOL packet
04:22<Xaroth|Work>true
04:22<@planetmaker>yes, sure, the admin port's protocol. I wasn't thinking of anything else :-9
04:23<dihedral>:-D
04:23<@planetmaker>yes, as it's backward compatible I'm not even sure it needs a version-bump
04:23<@planetmaker>it's "just" a new packet
04:24<Xaroth|Work>2 new, but yes, agreed
04:24<Xaroth|Work>BUT
04:24<Xaroth|Work>you need a way to indicate to clients who support it
04:24<Xaroth|Work>that it's available
04:24<@planetmaker>you do?
04:25<Xaroth|Work>well, if I try to send a ping packet to a server that doesn't support it
04:25<Xaroth|Work>i get booted
04:25<@planetmaker>hm, yes
04:25<Xaroth|Work>and if I call a rcon, do I wait for the EOL packet, or do I need to do extra magic?
04:25<Xaroth|Work>that, to me, sounds like a required bump
04:26<@planetmaker>agreed
04:26<Xaroth|Work>besides
04:26<Xaroth|Work>a version bump of the admin protocol doesn't mean old clients stop to function
04:27<@planetmaker>I know. But it adds code complexity :-)
04:29<dihedral>anything that changes protocol bumps the version, clients can then decide if they support the version or not
04:30<Xaroth|Work>well
04:30<Xaroth|Work>the version hasn't been bumped.. ever :P
04:31<Xaroth|Work>I mean.. I see several new functionality packets (communication with GS for example), and NETWORK_GAME_ADMIN_VERSION is still 1
04:31<Xaroth|Work>so I'd say it's time it got a bump :P
04:36<dihedral>if you ask me, that should have had bumped the version of the protocol
04:37<Xaroth|Work>well yes
04:37<dihedral>but i am sure you can ask the committer for a reason and i am sure the committer has a reason
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04:40<@planetmaker>well... OpenTTD bumps versions usually only when the change is not backward compatible
04:40<dihedral>i remember those packets being added to the protocol though
04:40<@planetmaker>just adding new packets... doesn't change the protocol. The client just has to handle unknown packets
04:41<dihedral>i am not sure i have logs back far enough - i think i once had a discussion with Rubidium about that
04:42<Xaroth|Work>But then you'd also want a way for clients to be aware of the new available features
04:42<@planetmaker>that's what a reported openttd version could do :-)
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04:43<Xaroth|Work>fair enough
04:45<@planetmaker>that's how we work with NewGRFs: they state a newgrf version for the principle dialect. And they query the openttd version to check for additional available features
04:46<@planetmaker>not saying that it's the best way, though
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04:47<@planetmaker>but I see it as speaking English and only learning a new word as opposed to learning french instead
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04:52<dihedral>i would not bump the version if i only added data to the end of a packet (server -> bot)
04:52<dihedral>hmmm
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05:16<dihedral>bad news: i need a live cd
05:16<dihedral>good news: i have a backup
05:17<Xaroth|Work>:o
05:31<Xaroth|Work>I need a proper compile env for openttd at work :|
05:54<Xaroth|Work>planetmaker: initial patch (I need to test this when I'm at home): http://devs.opendune.org/~xaroth/patch_admin_network_cmd_ping.patch
05:54<Xaroth|Work>and I now know again why I prefer python over C++ :P
06:01<Bulwersator>@devs - Currently NoAI API calls may fail with ERR_UNKOWN error code. For the AI developer it is quite irritating as it means "something failed, no idea why and how" (I received bug report with assert triggered by API call that should not be able to fail. AppendOrder failed with ERR_UNKNOWN what means that I know about bug but I have no idea what and how it happened). Is there any reason to not add error codes that would be equivale
06:01<Bulwersator>received by players? It would mean adding something between 20 and 1000 error codes to http://noai.openttd.org/api/trunk/classAIError.html And is there any chance that prepared patch would be reviewed and maybe commited to the trunk (Yexo is inactive)?
06:07<dihedral>planetmaker, Xaroth|Work : bidirectional ping and pong?
06:07<dihedral>i.e. a ping and a pong packet for the admin and a ping and pong packet for the server?
06:07<Xaroth|Work>no
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06:07<dihedral>alternative a ping packet for the admin and a pong packet for the server
06:07<Xaroth|Work>a ping for the client, a pong for the server
06:07<Xaroth|Work>why does the server need a ping? :P
06:08<dihedral>ping the client
06:08<Xaroth|Work>for what purpose?
06:08<Xaroth|Work>(not to mention that that requires a version bump)
06:08<dihedral>why?
06:08<Xaroth|Work>because the server probably wants a response to that ping?
06:08<Xaroth|Work>old clients ignore the ping
06:08<dihedral>true :-P
06:09<Xaroth|Work>making the whole server ping => client pong thing useless
06:09<Xaroth|Work>thar, made a FS for it
06:12<Xaroth|Work>wonder if it can be squeezed into 1.3.2 :o
06:12<dihedral>no additional features once rc was released?
06:12<dihedral>:-P
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06:15<Xaroth|Work>ssshh :P
06:17<dihedral>he even forgot to add virtual NetworkRecvStatus Receive_SERVER_GAMESCRIPT to core/tcp_admin.h
06:17<Xaroth|Work>there's also a typo in it
06:18<Xaroth|Work>tcp_admin.h: ADMIN_PACKET_SERVER_RCON, ///< The server's reply to a remove console command.
06:23<dihedral>:-P
06:23<dihedral>that would probably have been my fault :-D
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06:32<Xaroth|Work>bad dih, bad bad dih :P
06:37<peter1139>http://i.imgur.com/EjufJdv.jpg
06:37<peter1139>;S
06:38<Xaroth|Work>looks.. nasty
06:42<dihedral>ugly
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06:46<@planetmaker>dihedral, indeed I don't quite understand why the server ever want to ping an admin port client
06:46<dihedral>http://paste.openttdcoop.org/show/2379/
06:47<dihedral>that is to complete the GAMESCRIPT stuff
06:49<dihedral>why on earth it was committed in an uncomplete state i do not know - but then that is too long ago to make a fuss :-P
06:49<@planetmaker>who knows. probably your fault ;-) :-P
06:50<@planetmaker>Bulwersator, there'll always be ERR_UNKNOWN - for the cases not caught. Of course it's feasible to return other error codes, if the failure is known
06:50<dihedral>http://paste.openttdcoop.org/show/2380/
06:50<dihedral>corrects the typo (remove -> remote)
06:50<@planetmaker>lol. Nice typo
06:50<dihedral>huge waste of bytes for something like that
06:56<Xaroth|Work>yeh
07:00<Xaroth|Work>hm, my own patch also lacks the stuff in .h , whoops :P
07:00<Xaroth|Work>ah well, I'll fix it tonight
07:01<@planetmaker>I saved the two patches, dihedral. I'll have a look tonight where I have my dev environment
07:06<Xaroth|Work>lol, i failed at my FS request
07:06<Xaroth|Work>set as bug, while it's a feature :|
07:06<@planetmaker>I guess there's worse ways to fail
07:06<Xaroth|Work>true
07:06<@planetmaker>like setting unwanted assignments ;-)
07:07<Xaroth|Work>that implies that that person had a choice to begin with :)
07:07<@planetmaker>:-)
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07:08<@planetmaker>don't you want to break down that into thw two logical parts? :D
07:09<@planetmaker>but there you go, changed it to 'patch' and version=trunk for you :-)
07:11<Xaroth|Work>:>
07:11<Bulwersator>@planetmaker: Yes, I know. But I want to catch more cases - and before starting patching attempts I want to check whatever there is no conflict with the current design.
07:12<Xaroth|Work>one could discuss if it should be two patches .. but I'm at work, and somewhat lazy, so I decided against giving myself extra work :P
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07:14<Eddi|zuHause>idea for "transfer history": instead of expanding the cargo packet storing a history of all vehicles it used, the vehicle stores a reference to every cargo packet it transferred, the cargo packet only stores a reference count. on cargo delivery, the packet is not immediately destroyed, and on a (daily?) vehicle loop, the referenced transfer packets are checked whether they were delivered, the transfer share is resolved, and the
07:14<Eddi|zuHause>reference count reduced. if the reference count is 0, the packet is then destroyed
07:14<@planetmaker>Bulwersator, I see no problem with being more precise with errors other than that it might be difficult in some cases to backtrack the cause. So if you believe you can improve the situation be our guests and create patches :-)
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07:14<@planetmaker>You might want to join discussion in the evening hours, especially with Zuu
07:15<@planetmaker>or create a forum postings
07:15<@planetmaker>if European evening hours is inconvenient for your time zone
07:15<Bulwersator>I am in Europe
07:16<Bulwersator>planetmaker; Bactracking is tricky and one that I have perfectly reproducible seems to be an OpenTTD bug :) (http://bugs.openttd.org/task/5641)
07:16<@planetmaker>well, sometimes forum postings are a good idea nevertheless. They allow to describe the problem and solution (attempts) in more detail. Thus might give a good basis to start a discussion
07:17<@planetmaker>I meant back-tracking as in getting the result out from the callbacks to the squirrel-API
07:17<@planetmaker>Generally the AI should get the same level of feedback as humans do
07:17<@planetmaker>thus error messages as precise (or unprecise)
07:19<@planetmaker>in the case of FS#5641, I guess, a more precise feedback sounds quite sane, though
07:19<@planetmaker>what do you get as player when dragging it?
07:26<@planetmaker>Xaroth, hehe, I understand :-9
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07:33<dihedral>Xaroth|Work, do you have time to test a patch?
07:33<dihedral>Xaroth|Work, http://paste.openttdcoop.org/show/2381/
07:34<dihedral>that's your ping pong packet for the admin ;-)
07:34<Xaroth|Work>er
07:34<Xaroth|Work>i already made that?
07:34<Xaroth|Work>http://bugs.openttd.org/task/5643
07:35<Xaroth|Work>bar the virtuals that I forgot
07:36<dihedral>:-P
07:36<dihedral>split the RconEnd out of it then i do not have to make that patch either :-P
07:36<Xaroth|Work>(and I linked it on irc ~90 min ago :P )
07:37<dihedral>RconEnd and SendPong do not have to be public
07:37<dihedral>ouch
07:37<dihedral>yeah - i am trying to rescue a server (on the side) :-D
07:37<Xaroth|Work>hehe
07:37<dihedral>personally i would have named it SERVER_RCON_EOF :-P but that does not matter actually
07:38<Xaroth|Work>it's not really a file ending, nor a line ending, at least, that was my thought train on it
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07:39<dihedral>EOT :-P
07:39<dihedral>EOR
07:39<dihedral>EO_MY_FUZZY_LITTLE... :-D
07:39<dihedral>just kidding
07:39<Xaroth|Work>lol
07:40<@planetmaker>ZZZ ;-)
07:40<dihedral>i think it's good, i would just split it into two patches, as the RCON_END has nothing to do with playing ping pong
07:40<dihedral>funny just how similar our ping pong patches are :-)
07:40<Xaroth|Work>you can't really differ much in something that simple tbh
07:40<dihedral>but you can differ :-)
07:40<Xaroth|Work>true
07:40<dihedral>SendPong could be different
07:41<dihedral>etc.
07:41<dihedral>well - i do have the debug message and my method is not public
07:41<dihedral>and my payload is called d1 as in other methods too
07:41<Xaroth|Work>yeh, I'd vote against the debug message tbh
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07:42<dihedral>it's consistent :-)
07:43<Xaroth|Work>ADMIN_POLL only logs when there's something wrong
07:43<Xaroth|Work>so does ADMIN_UPDATE_FREQUENCY
07:43<dihedral>RCON GAMESCRIPT
07:44<Xaroth|Work>yeh, i never understood that one either
07:44<Xaroth|Work>especially if you have some form of stats transmission between GS and admin
07:44<Xaroth|Work>your console will be spammed to boot
07:44<dihedral>only if net=2
07:44<Xaroth|Work>though you can argue that that actually changes something on the server, so it should be logged
07:45<Xaroth|Work>same with ADMIN_RCON
07:45<dihedral>they are debug messages
07:45<dihedral>hence they can be turned off with corresponding log levels
07:45<dihedral>net=1 or even net=0
07:47<dihedral>i think consistency is quite important, and if something like that should be changed, it should be removed from the others first
07:47<Xaroth|Work>well it depends on impact if you'd ask me
07:49<Xaroth|Work>or at least raise the debug level for that message to 4 or something
07:49<dihedral>well - it is true, ping and pong are the least important packets i can think of :-D
07:49<Xaroth|Work>so it doesn't drown out more important messages
07:49<dihedral>how often do you plan to ping? :-D
07:49<dihedral>but that is true
07:49<dihedral>rcon and gamescript is game influencing
07:49<Xaroth|Work>that's not up to me to define; I just make a library :P
07:50<dihedral>ping and pong have no meaning except for the bot
07:50<Xaroth|Work>if people want to ping 5000 times with my lib, I don't care
07:50<dihedral>:-D
07:51<dihedral>so if i want to send 5000 rcon echo commands i can, which has the same affect - shall i disable the debug message in that case?
07:51<dihedral>:-P
07:51<Xaroth|Work>no, rcon has the ability to mess with the server
07:51<Xaroth|Work>rcon has a potential severe impact
07:51<Xaroth|Work>ping.. hardly
07:52<NCG3982>Hmz.
07:52<NCG3982>The Swedish Trainset is so ..easy.
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08:57<Bulwersator>planetmaker: "Cant't build railway station here" what is also at least misleading (problem is not with place, problem is with request station type) (reply to "[13:19] <@planetmaker> what do you get as player when dragging it?")
09:07<@planetmaker>sounds like it has potential for improvement
09:08<@planetmaker>not sure whether it's easy, though. It's the NewGRF's decision
09:09<Bulwersator>I think that some form of "NewGrf refuses to allow station construction" would be better
09:10<@planetmaker>yes. It could also return "wrong size for station type"
09:10<@planetmaker>if it's feasible to integrate that there. I didn't look at station code
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10:40<Xaroth|Work>hm, so I got two patches now, for the same file(s), affecting areas roughtly the same location(s) .. obviously this means if you apply one patch, the other will fail... should I care?
10:40<Xaroth|Work>@planetmaker
10:41<@planetmaker>you should care by giving them sequential numbering. Or by making them both apply to clean trunk
10:41<@planetmaker>numbering, if you make it one issue :-)
10:42<Xaroth|Work>well
10:42<Xaroth|Work>they both write to the end of the same enum
10:42<Xaroth|Work>so if one applies, the other fails
10:42<Xaroth|Work>regardless of the order
10:42<Xaroth|Work>I can apply either to clean trunk, no problemo
10:42<@planetmaker>patch queue anyone? :-)
10:43<@planetmaker>if it's different issues, make them both apply to trunk. And... let the committer worry about the needed update
10:44<@planetmaker>if it's one issue: choose order and make it so they apply in the chosen order
10:45<Xaroth|Work>one is RCON_END, other is PING/PONG
10:45<dihedral>they should be separate
10:45<Xaroth|Work>yes, they are
10:45<dihedral>if you ask me, as they are 2 different things
10:46<Xaroth|Work>but as said, if I apply X first, Y fails due to hunks failing
10:46<@planetmaker>then don't worry that they don't apply on top of eachother
10:46<Xaroth|Work>if I apply Y first, X fails due to hunks failing
10:46<Xaroth|Work>rghr
10:46<Xaroth|Work>s/h//
10:47<@planetmaker>but we could consider it as "update sequence". So... I don't really care either way :-)
10:47*Xaroth|Work shrugs
10:47<dihedral>you just need to resolve the conflict, and i think that is very simple
10:47<dihedral>with that patch ;-)
10:47<@planetmaker>^
10:48<Xaroth|Work>too late; already compiling :P
10:49<dihedral>do you have an updated patch for me to look at?
10:49<Xaroth|Work>nothing that passed a compile check
10:50<dihedral>does not matter, perhaps i can help ;-)
10:50<Xaroth|Work>meh, I like fucking about
10:50<Xaroth|Work>means I might actually learn me some C
10:50<Xaroth|Work>(++)
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11:00<dihedral>do we need anything else in that respect?
11:01<Xaroth|Work>dunno yet
11:05<dihedral>i mean - while we are at it ... :-P
11:06<Xaroth|Work>well, capturing a small screenshot would be cool .. but I doubt useful for the admin port :P
11:06<Xaroth|Work>i.e. have a bot monitor changes, and in some cases take screenshots of that area
11:06<dihedral>lol
11:07<dihedral>nah
11:07<dihedral>that should be done with a modified client :-P
11:07<@planetmaker>it would require screenshot support via rcon... yes, would be cool. But I wasn't convincing in that respect before
11:07<Xaroth|Work>heh, this works :D
11:07<Xaroth|Work>>>> a.recv_packet()
11:07<Xaroth|Work>(<PacketID: 125 :: ServerRconEnd>, {'command': 'echo 1'})
11:07<Xaroth|Work>funneh
11:07<dihedral>modified client, should do the job
11:08<@planetmaker>dihedral, running a modified client separately for that is... boring IMHO. And a real ressource hog
11:08<Xaroth|Work>one of the more fun things I found from the whole mincraft stuff
11:08<Xaroth|Work>is that they have a fetish with displaying their map for all to see
11:08<@planetmaker>yes
11:08<@planetmaker>which is nice
11:08<Xaroth|Work>so there's a fair few projects who read the world data
11:08<Xaroth|Work>and make a google maps interface for it
11:08<dihedral>planetmaker, i'd rather have the resourcehog somewhere else than on the dedicated server, if the resource hog is merely there for making screenshots
11:09<@planetmaker>dihedral, that does not take additional ressources really
11:09<Xaroth|Work>right, both patches seem to function :P
11:09<dihedral>Xaroth|Work, \o/
11:09<dihedral>show me show me show me :-P
11:09<Xaroth|Work>http://devs.opendune.org/~xaroth/patch_admin_add_ping.patch
11:10<Xaroth|Work>http://devs.opendune.org/~xaroth/patch_admin_add_rcon_end.patch
11:10<Xaroth|Work>pretty much the same as the old one
11:10<Xaroth|Work>but split up into two
11:11<@planetmaker>dihedral, http://devs.openttd.org/~planetmaker/patches/blitter.diff already allows for screenshots server-side
11:11<@planetmaker>and all calculations have to be done anyway
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11:12<dihedral>Xaroth|Work, i would not make NetworkRecvStatus SendPong(uint32 payload); a public method
11:13<dihedral>keep it private, as nobody else should be able to send a pong packet other then the network part when a ping is received
11:15<dihedral>same for NetworkRecvStatus SendRconEnd(const char *command);
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11:15<dihedral>would it make sense to introduce 2 packets instead of 1?
11:16<dihedral>and use an id instead of a string?
11:16<dihedral>i.d. start 12345 and end 12345
11:16<dihedral>and in between those two you receive your data
11:17<dihedral>and the id is a hash of the command
11:17<dihedral>so that both sides can calculate the hash
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11:17<dihedral>might be overkill to work with an id, but it's more useful for programs if you ask me
11:18<@planetmaker>hm, I err on the screenshot
11:18<dihedral>other than those thoughts Xaroth|Work i think the patches are great :-)
11:18<Xaroth|Work>ta
11:18<Xaroth|Work>not bad for somebody who doesn't really do C++ :P
11:19<dihedral>copy paste :-D
11:19*dihedral grins and hides
11:19<Xaroth|Work>only because it worked first compile :P
11:21<dihedral>comments on RCON_START packet? and an hash as id of the command instead of the command itself?
11:22<Xaroth|Work>doable, but not really that useful
11:22<Xaroth|Work>you already get the command back
11:22<Xaroth|Work>and you get your stuff back in the same order you requested it
11:29<dihedral>hehe
11:30<dihedral>do we have other end packets?
11:31<dihedral>or would it be wise to create a global EOT packet which sends the id of the network packet in question to communicate it's end
11:31<dihedral>e.g. SERVER_CMD_NAMES
11:31<dihedral>iirc this has no end packet, but can span over multiple tcp packets
11:35<Rubidium>bonjour
11:37<peter1139>anyone familiar with ASA?
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11:38<@DorpsGek>Commit by rubidium :: r25579 trunk/src/script/api/script_list.hpp (2013-07-10 15:38:42 UTC)
11:38<@DorpsGek>-Fix [FS#5642] (r25577): doxygen generation failed + typo fix
11:39<Rubidium>peter1139: if you mean acetylsalicylic acid, then yes
11:40<peter1139>nah, cisco
11:40<Rubidium>then not
11:44<Eddi|zuHause>that one shold be ASS :p
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11:46<dihedral>peter1139, a tiny bit
11:50<peter1139>so i have the ipsec vpn set up to require rsa-sig for 2-factor authentication for client-access
11:50<peter1139>i need to set up a fixed-ip site-to-site vpn which is preshared key
11:51<peter1139>afaict i can't do that without removing the 2-factor auth on the client access vpn :S
11:52<dihedral>above topic is not covered by my definition of "tiny bit"
11:52<dihedral>sorry peter1139
12:14<@planetmaker>Xaroth, where's your patches now?
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12:32<Elukka>so, playing openttd after a bit of a hiatus, i've got a new and exciting problem
12:32<Elukka>it throws everyone out from my game because "downloading the map took too long"
12:33<Elukka>the game insists the max_download_time console command doesn't exist and having pause on join on doesn't seem to make a difference
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12:35<Eddi|zuHause>it's a setting, not a command
12:36<Elukka>where do i find it?
12:36<Elukka>i just made the assumption i'd plonk it into the console since the wiki doesn't actually tell you what they are :P
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12:37<Elukka>oh, it's in the cfg
12:37<Elukka>there we go
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12:39<Eddi|zuHause>well all settings have the same "set" command... it's really simple
12:51<@planetmaker>@base 16 10 c5
12:51<@DorpsGek>planetmaker: 197
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13:01<Elukka>hmm
13:01<Elukka>something that would be useful with FIRS and it's however many types of industries would be some way to find certain types of industry in the local area
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13:04<@planetmaker>use minimap, Elukka
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13:17<Eddi|zuHause>Elukka: you can enable and disable industries on the minimap
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13:24<Elukka>huh. there's a basic feature i didn't know of
13:24<Elukka>thanks
13:24<Elukka>that is the smallest text in the world though! :P
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13:27<Eddi|zuHause>you can also use the industry chains
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13:45<@DorpsGek>Commit by translators :: r25580 /trunk/src/lang (4 files) (2013-07-10 17:45:33 UTC)
13:45<@DorpsGek>-Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
13:45<@DorpsGek>japanese - 578 changes by guppy
13:45<@DorpsGek>norwegian_bokmal - 49 changes by cuthbert
13:45<@DorpsGek>russian - 33 changes by Lone_Wolf
13:45<@DorpsGek>slovak - 13 changes by Milsa
13:47<@DorpsGek>Commit by rubidium :: r25581 /trunk (9 files in 2 dirs) (2013-07-10 17:46:54 UTC)
13:47<@DorpsGek>-Fix: WT3 validation
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13:50<andythenorth>o/
13:51<@planetmaker>\o
13:51<Rubidium>_o
13:55<andythenorth>semaphore
13:56<andythenorth>hmm
13:56<andythenorth>newgrf conflicts
13:56<andythenorth>and Moar Newgrfs plz
13:56<andythenorth>just another forum day
13:56<andythenorth>nice that people are posting though :)
13:57<andythenorth>are there actually 63 decent newgrfs?
13:57<andythenorth>I've only found about 9
13:57<andythenorth>and I contributed to 5 of those :P
13:57<Xaroth|Work>planetmaker: the links i posted earlier
13:57*andythenorth arrogant
13:57<Xaroth|Work>will put them in the bugreport
13:58*Rubidium likes the insta-load HEQS trams ;)
13:58<Rubidium>though most other vehicle sets are annoying because of wagon speed limits
13:59<frosch123>you can disable them, can't you?
14:01<andythenorth>ho ho
14:01<andythenorth>no alberth?
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14:01*andythenorth is about to do "my first python subclass"
14:01<Xaroth|Work>heh
14:01<andythenorth>although strictly I've subclassed 'object' before :P
14:01<Xaroth|Work>shouldn't be that hard tbh
14:06<@planetmaker>Xaroth, if I had seen the links obviously, I hadn't asked...
14:06<Xaroth|Work>you replied on IRC like one minute after I posted them, lol
14:07<@planetmaker>:D
14:08<@planetmaker>right... there
14:08<@planetmaker>I expected you to update the FS issue instead of hiding them in the depth of transient IRC chatter
14:09<Xaroth|Work>yeh, I intended to
14:09<Xaroth|Work>until a customer called
14:09<Xaroth|Work>and I actually had to do something :P
14:09<@planetmaker>:-)
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14:13<Eddi|zuHause>i hate when that happens :p
14:18<Xaroth|Work>yeh
14:18<Xaroth|Work>you'd imagine they'd leave you alone
14:18<Xaroth|Work>but nooooooo
14:18<frosch123>you should try to get public customers
14:19<frosch123>they won't call after 1700, and not after 1200 on fridays
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14:21<Wolf01>oink
14:22<Xaroth|Work>honk
14:22*V453000 slaps planetmaker around a bit with a large fishbot
14:22*frosch123 slaps V with a wet rail
14:22<Wolf01>I'm a proud owner of the Lego 10237: Tower of Orthanc :D
14:23<V453000>NO.
14:23<V453000>hi frosch123
14:23<V453000>oh I slapped people :D missclick
14:23<frosch123>moin ::)
14:23<andythenorth>frosch123: unless the minister is launching something the next day, in which case they call your mobile at home
14:23<Eddi|zuHause>hello, Saruman01
14:24<frosch123>andythenorth: did some black suited men escort you to work?
14:24<andythenorth>oh that again
14:24*andythenorth doesn't work for a secret organisation :P
14:24<andythenorth>and if I did, I couldn't tell you ;)
14:24<@planetmaker>Wolf01, we got a shipment for the OpenTTD meeting: http://devs.openttd.org/~planetmaker/patches/IMG_4154.JPG
14:25<andythenorth>now you spoiled the big ending :)
14:25<@planetmaker>omg
14:25<@planetmaker>:-)
14:25<Wolf01>that's the next thing I need to purchase, I have a little stash @work and I need various bricks and plates
14:25<@planetmaker>yes, I plead guilty :-)
14:26<@planetmaker>I'm daily tempted to open it - but I must not yet spoil it
14:27<Xaroth|Work>http://www.nme.com/news/daft-punk/71350 << haha, epic
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14:28<andythenorth>ho
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14:29<frosch123>Xaroth|Work: does your company also give such merchandising to customers?
14:29<andythenorth>anybody smart enough to parse this into something approximating Python class declaration with props?
14:29<andythenorth>https://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/fish/repository/entry/src/FISH.cfg
14:29<andythenorth>doesn't have to be perfect
14:30<andythenorth>I want to stop parsing a config file, it's over-engineered faff
14:30<frosch123>might work in financial business
14:30<andythenorth>I previously parsed FIRS nml into python declarations
14:30<andythenorth>but I forget how :P
14:31<andythenorth>hm
14:31<frosch123>convert it into csv
14:31<andythenorth>yum
14:31<andythenorth>or not
14:31<frosch123>write an nfo export filter for excel
14:31<andythenorth>any python debugging tools print an object repr. showing me all the attributes?
14:31<Xaroth|Work>frosch123: i wish
14:32<andythenorth>frosch123: then print it, fax it, scan in the fax, and have my secretary email it?
14:32<frosch123>andythenorth: and then visit personally to ask about the mail
14:32<andythenorth>ni
14:32<andythenorth>no
14:32<Xaroth|Work>andythenorth: pdb
14:32<andythenorth>I'll call to ask you to read it out over the phone
14:33<andythenorth>I'll then type it in manually
14:33<Xaroth|Work>also, the inspect module can do some bits
14:33<Xaroth|Work>get the proper frame
14:34<Xaroth|Work>show all locals and globals and whatnog
14:34<Xaroth|Work>whatnot*
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14:35<andythenorth>I never learnt to use pdb
14:35<andythenorth>is tonight the night?
14:35<Xaroth|Work>dunno
14:35<Xaroth|Work>i never bothered with it
14:35<Xaroth|Work>i do most my stuff in django.. it's exception handler shows me a purdy html page with all that info :P
14:36<andythenorth>pyramid same
14:38<andythenorth>I'll just render out values with a text processor :P
14:38<Xaroth|Work>:)
14:39<andythenorth>oh
14:39<andythenorth>vars(obj) is my friend
14:39<andythenorth>in conjuction with print :)
14:40<andythenorth>sticks out a dict
14:40<Xaroth|Work>pprint over print tbh
14:41<andythenorth>advantage?
14:41<Xaroth|Work>pretty formatting
14:41<Xaroth|Work>from pprint import pprint; pprint(obj.__dict__)
14:41<frosch123>hmm, using sshfs to conntect to localhost is so weird
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14:45<Wolf01>\o/ deleted 18GB of error logs
14:46<Eddi|zuHause>compressed or uncompressed?
14:46<Wolf01>uncompressed
14:47<Wolf01>17GB were all in one txt
14:47<Wolf01>my rotate script stopped working at the start of the year and I noticed it just some days ago
14:48<frosch123>devzone had some diskspace issues due to a similar problem
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14:50<@planetmaker>dihedral, the admin port patches... how does it behave with your reference implementation, with Joan?
14:51<Xaroth|Work>I suspect dih already has something ready to implement it :P
14:53<@planetmaker>Xaroth, since when do you actually use svn? :D
14:53<andythenorth>what larks http://paste.openttdcoop.org/show/2382/
14:53*andythenorth loves that python allows incompetents to achieve results
14:53<Xaroth|Work>planetmaker: since.. a long time?
14:53<andythenorth>I should deal with strings better :P
14:53<andythenorth>currently I'll have to manually fix them :P
14:54<@planetmaker>I just wondered... I didn't have an svn-style patch in a long time :D
14:54<Xaroth|Work>planetmaker: tortoisesvn :)
14:54<@planetmaker>most use hg or git for development. And only svn to commit ;-)
14:54<Xaroth|Work>I use svn for my home download system :)
14:55<Xaroth|Work>I don't mind git.. we use it for opendune .. it's more a tool to an end
14:55<andythenorth>quickest way to check 'is string'?
14:55<andythenorth>besides try/except hackery?
14:55<Xaroth|Work>isinstance(x, basestring)
14:57<Eddi|zuHause>andythenorth: just put str(whatever) and don't bother?
14:57<Eddi|zuHause>isinstance breaks duck-typing
14:57<andythenorth>that doesn't quite work for my output
14:57<andythenorth>I want strings to be output with quote marks
14:57<andythenorth>and other types not
14:58<andythenorth>done
14:58<Eddi|zuHause>repr(whatever)
14:58<andythenorth>oh yeah repr :)
14:58<andythenorth>winner
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15:00<Xaroth|Work>self.log("Something something: '%r'", object)
15:00<Xaroth|Work>%r does repr-like representation
15:00<Xaroth|Work>or without the ' ' around it
15:00<Xaroth|Work>for strings you'd usually get 'u'text''
15:00<Eddi|zuHause>did you mean %(object,)?
15:00<andythenorth>ho, this is turning into a code generator
15:00<andythenorth>oops
15:01<andythenorth>everyone knows code generators are bad right? :P
15:01<Eddi|zuHause>*räusper*
15:01<Xaroth|Work>code generatores are not bad by definition
15:02<Xaroth|Work>they just allow people to do stuff they shouldn't be doing :P
15:02<Eddi|zuHause>andythenorth: based on your initial question, code a generator is exactly what you wanted :p
15:02<andythenorth>it is :)
15:02<andythenorth>I'm trollink
15:02<andythenorth>I also am late for dinner
15:02<Eddi|zuHause>s/code a/a code/
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15:07<andythenorth>k thanks
15:07<andythenorth>bye
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15:39<@DorpsGek>TrueBrain: Commit by rubidium :: r25582 /branches/1.3 (5 files in 4 dirs) (2013-07-10 19:38:53 UTC)
15:39<@DorpsGek>TrueBrain: [1.3] -Backport from trunk:
15:39<@DorpsGek>TrueBrain: - Fix: [Script] Documentation implied that XXList::AddItem has a default for value if it isn't filled in [FS#5638] (r25579, r25577)
15:39<@DorpsGek>TrueBrain: - Fix: Make content list appear faster (r25573)
15:39<@DorpsGek>TrueBrain: - Fix: Non-ICU layouter started new lines with the space which triggered the linebreak (r25568)
15:39<@DorpsGek>TrueBrain: (...)
15:41<@DorpsGek>Commit by rubidium :: r25583 /branches/1.3 (6 files in 2 dirs) (2013-07-10 19:41:31 UTC)
15:41<@DorpsGek>[1.3] -Backport from trunk:
15:41<@DorpsGek>- Fix: Layouter caused significant slowdown with text heavy windows, cache it to make it managable (r25574, r25570, r25569, r25567, r25564)
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15:57<@DorpsGek>Commit by rubidium :: r25584 /branches/1.3/src/lang (26 files) (2013-07-10 19:57:02 UTC)
15:57<@DorpsGek>[1.3] -Backport from trunk: language updates
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16:45<@planetmaker>bed time. good night :-)
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16:55<andythenorth>the pictures of this canandian oil train wreck show insane devestation :O http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-22953194
16:57<Eddi|zuHause>wasn't that already like a week ago?
16:57<andythenorth>news is still emerging
16:57<andythenorth>it went quiet for a bit
16:57<andythenorth>now it's front page again
16:58<Eddi|zuHause>a german TV station cancelled a showing of a train wreck movie
17:00<__ln__>it was on saturday, barely half a week
17:00<Prof_Frink>BLEVE-tastic.
17:09<Eddi|zuHause>i guess we're lucky that we don't have such massive trains: http://www.lvz-online.de/leipzig/polizeiticker/polizeiticker-mitteldeutschland/zugunglueck-in-thueringen-bei-bleichrode--kesselwagen-brennt/r-polizeiticker-mitteldeutschland-a-106618.html
17:10<Eddi|zuHause>(that was about 2 years ago, i think)
17:10<Eddi|zuHause>they determined that the station operator was drunk
17:23<Rubidium>Eddi|zuHause: I'd reckon that 750 meters of such a train crashing would be similarly destructive
17:28<andythenorth>oops
17:28*andythenorth broke FISH
17:28<andythenorth>it's all a bit too intricate right now :P
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17:45<andythenorth>oh
17:45<andythenorth>fixed
17:46<NCG3982>:O.
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17:49<andythenorth>night
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18:11<Wolf01>'night
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19:09<dolcea>hey
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19:09<dolcea>how do i save the dedicated server??
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19:15<Eddi|zuHause>type "save" in the console?
19:16<Eddi|zuHause>alternatively, you can save from the client with rcon, or just make a local savegame with the client and upload it to the server
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---Logclosed Thu Jul 11 00:00:02 2013