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#openttd IRC Logs for 2013-07-11

---Logopened Thu Jul 11 00:00:02 2013
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03:43<andythenorth>ho ho
03:43*andythenorth just made a ship with nominal speed 356mph
03:44<andythenorth>not intended
03:44<andythenorth>actual speed overflows to 0 somewhere around 128mph
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04:08<peter1139>guess what
04:08<peter1139>i have a patch for that...
04:10<andythenorth>woot :P
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04:33<Xaroth|Work>did you get the Q pm asked yesterday btw?
04:35<@planetmaker>heya dihedral :-)
04:35<@planetmaker>and Xaroth :-)
04:35<Xaroth|Work>sup planetmaker
04:36<@planetmaker>we need a (test) bot which connects to admin port in, say, 1.1.4 in order to test whether it still works with current 1.3.x and trunk :-)
04:37<@planetmaker>with all instances of dihedral 's bot I found and still had I was somehow insuccessful yesterday
04:37<Xaroth|Work>as in, to see if the protocol is still valid?
04:37<@planetmaker>whether it barfs or not :-)
04:37<@planetmaker>(and to have something to check future additions with, too :D )
04:37<Xaroth|Work>my lib works with and without the patches applied, without on 1.3.1 and trunk, and with on trunk ofc
04:38<Xaroth|Work>mind, sending a PING on an unpatched will disconnect you
04:38<@planetmaker>hm :-) do you have a small test application which I can just launch, Xaroth
04:38<@planetmaker>thx, peter1139
04:39<Xaroth|Work>planetmaker: I normally do it through a python console, so I can specify what to send and receive
04:39<Xaroth|Work>but a test app can be made at some point
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04:41<@planetmaker>that's what I was looking for basically. And I know that I tested dih's incarnation long time ago successfully on life servers
04:41<@planetmaker>obviously I miss the right version, though :-)
04:42<@planetmaker>and I miss the environment to compile the java projects of his
04:43<Xaroth|Work>I'm too spoiled with python; I get frustrated having to wait for compiles to finish :P
04:47<@planetmaker>well... a python file which I just call and possibly output its logs to console is fine, too
04:48<Xaroth|Work>doable :)
04:48<Xaroth|Work>first I need to move some code around a bit
04:48<Xaroth|Work>this thing 'works' .. but not 100% how I want it to
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04:56<dihedral>test bot would actually be a good thing
04:57<@planetmaker>I thought you had it, dihedral
04:57<dihedral>just a bot that communicates each and every packet and outputs what packet was sent / received
04:57<@planetmaker>I recall running a test instance of some bot of yours on the admin port of the publicserver
04:57<@planetmaker>simpleconsole or so?
04:57<@planetmaker>but those downloads I found somehow did not work for me. yes, joan, too
04:57<dihedral>if you start joan it will simply connect as a remote console
04:58<@planetmaker>I probably only failed in configuring it
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05:31<dihedral>but joan will only make use of console packets ...
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05:36<dihedral>perhaps i can add a simple joan test
05:37<Xaroth|Work>planetmaker: what kind of packets do you want tested
05:38<dihedral>if there is a protocol tester, it should test all it knows
05:44<Eddi|zuHause>"the 24/7 surveillance of ecuador's embassy in london, in case julian assange leaves it, has already cost 4 million pounds"
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05:49*peter1139 smirks at QC
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06:02<@planetmaker>Xaroth, dihedral is right, the "best" solution would be a comprehensive test. Otherwise I'd resort to a simply logging test as that's approx what worked for me before... somewhen somehow
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06:05<Xaroth|Work>once I got this working, I'll see what I can do on that
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06:25<Xaroth|Work>on a side note, planetmaker, any chance we can get the packets in before 1.3.2 ? .. it's not a new feature, but the benefit is great enough to be in a release
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07:07<@planetmaker>hm, we already have an RC for 1.3.2 and it's not a fix.
07:08<peter1139>fix: missing ping function
07:20<Xaroth|Work>I agree with peter1139 :P
07:21<Xaroth|Work>also: fix: missing end-of-command for rcon
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07:49<Teyro>Hi everyone. My Name is Christian i am the hoster of the biggest german linux gaming podcast (the playing penguin podcast a.k.a p3cast). I want to do an interview is someone here who can help me?
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07:51<Xaroth|Work>depends on who you need
07:52<@planetmaker>hello Teyro
07:52<Teyro>hi planetmaker
07:53<@planetmaker>so how can we help you exactly? :-)
07:54<Teyro>Well, i am looking for a guy / dev from the community who speaks german for an interview. My Listerns want to hear more about OpenTTD a created a video review but i want to do an interview too
07:55<@planetmaker>do you have time on 27/28 July?
07:55<@planetmaker>time to travel to Braunschweig?
07:55<Teyro>hahahah why?
07:55<@planetmaker>you can then meet 70% of the active openttd devs
07:56<Teyro>maybe in realife i am a preschool teacher i have to look
07:56<Teyro>at my timetable
07:56<@planetmaker>in real life all of us are something else. It's a hobby project after all ;-)
07:57<peter1139>I'm a coder in real life too...
07:57<peter1139>Wait, isn't this real?
07:57<Teyro>;) lol
07:58<@planetmaker>hehe, peter1139 :-)
07:58<Teyro>maybe i have time have to decide it
07:58<Teyro>The Problem is that is an Audio Podcast
07:59<@planetmaker>you surely have a laptop and a microphone ;-)
07:59<Teyro>mhhh ;) did you have some more information
08:01<@planetmaker>yes... basically we meet on that Saturday afternoon for cake, BBQ and drinks at my place. And have an awesome time till we fall asleep :-P
08:01<@planetmaker>and sure enough many of our discussion topics will be openttd-related
08:04<@planetmaker>but yes, we can make an interview also another time
08:04<@planetmaker>just would give you an idea who we are :-P
08:04<Teyro>lol great idea
08:04<Teyro>thank you
08:04<@planetmaker>(the meeting itself will be in English, though, of course)
08:04<Teyro>did you have jabber adress for contact?
08:05<@planetmaker>I don't have jabber, no
08:05<Teyro>oh ok ;)
08:05<Teyro>but you are german?
08:05<@planetmaker>well, yes
08:05*peter1139 has jabber!
08:05<peter1139>but nobody uses jabber :(
08:06<@planetmaker>too many communication channels spoil focus ;-)
08:06<peter1139>problem with communications channels is you've got to use the ones the people you communicate with use :S
08:07<@planetmaker>kinda, yeah
08:07<Teyro>;) lol
08:07<@planetmaker>alternatively you could have conversations^Wmonologue with the wall next to you
08:07<peter1139>that would often be more useful
08:07<@planetmaker>sometimes it feels the same and might be less frustrating, yes
08:07<Teyro>alternatively you could have conversations^Wmonologue with the wall next to you <---- =
08:08<@planetmaker>as opposed to talking on different channels past eachother ^
08:08<blathijs>peter1139: Google Talk is jabber, so you add arbitrary Gmail addresses / google accounts in your Jabber
08:08<peter1139>blathijs, google talk is gone
08:09<peter1139>it's google hangouts now, and they dropped (s2s) jabber
08:09<@planetmaker>hangout at least was so much use to find one person again ;-)
08:09<Teyro>yes i know i hate google for this fu**up
08:09<blathijs>peter1139: They did? I'm still chatting to gmail accounts through Jabber without problems...
08:10<Teyro>yes but i will end in the next weeks
08:10<Teyro>its only for persons who didnt know that like you
08:11<@planetmaker>I hope yo don't end that quickly :-P
08:11<peter1139>*it :p
08:12<Teyro>well i afk for some minutes
08:12<Teyro>wrote a mail to info@....
08:12<Teyro>see you soon
08:12<@planetmaker>thus it will be in my inbox :-P
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08:25<Xaroth|Work>14:01 <@planetmaker> yes... basically we meet on that Saturday afternoon for cake, BBQ and drinks at my place. And have an awesome time till we fall asleep :-P <<< alllll niiight looooooooong
08:37<Xaroth|Work>now if only we could get those two packets in trunk ;)
08:39<@planetmaker>gimme test bot :-P
08:39<Xaroth|Work>I could also make a simple command that takes a JSON file of packets + info to send, and then print out on console what it prints and what it receives
08:39<@planetmaker>had I had it last night, it would be there ;-)
08:39<Xaroth|Work>so you can test different cases easily
08:39<Xaroth|Work>PFFFFFFFFFF :P
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08:43*peter1139 notes that his homemade wine is nice
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09:12<Xaroth|Work>hello Belugas
09:13<@Belugas>sir Xaroth :)
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09:33<@planetmaker>salut Belugas
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09:58<@Belugas>sir planetmaker!
09:59<@Belugas>problem of taxs printing. freaking corner case not expected...
10:00<Eddi|zuHause>corner cases would be way less fun if you could expect them :p
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10:16<Xaroth|Work>and the json file as passed:
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10:29<Xaroth|Work>dihedral: if you want to test, check the commandline for the connection details; my server is running the RCON_END patch atm
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10:38<dihedral>Xaroth, I am at work and i have no time to test, until next week ;-)
10:38<dihedral>at least
10:40<Xaroth|Work>hopefully by then it'll be in trunk already :)
10:45<dihedral>planetmaker, a protocol test would be tricky - some packets require client interaction - e.g. CLIENT_JOIN etc.
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10:55<@Belugas>indeed Eddi|zuHause.
10:56<@Belugas>would be best if we all could live in round rooms, as there would not be any corner at all...
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11:06<krinn>hi guys
11:07<krinn>can someone light me on change to AddSetting, AI doesn't handle easy, medium... value anymore, looking @ doc they are still needed values
11:18<@planetmaker>krinn, not sure I get your question...
11:19<@planetmaker>dihedral, some test always is better than no test at all :-)
11:19<@planetmaker>and now I get Xaroth's pastes
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11:21<krinn>the custome value cannot be use anymore, i find out other settings are now in openttd configuration
11:22<Xaroth|Work>planetmaker: with my test script as it is now, you can easily simulate -some- situations, like rcon send and receive, but as dih mentioned, you can't really work with the more responsive things like clients and companies.
11:22<Eddi|zuHause>the distinction between "difficulty settings" and "advanced settings" has been removed
11:22<Xaroth|Work>well, companies might be feasible
11:22<Eddi|zuHause>as a side effect, the "easy/medium/hard" presets are also gone
11:23<Xaroth|Work>planetmaker: so, will it make it before 1.3.2? *nudge* *nudge* :P
11:23<@planetmaker>yes, there's no 'custom' difficulty setting any longer available for AIs, krinn
11:23<@planetmaker>it didn't make sense anyway...
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11:23<krinn>but still the value is needed ?
11:23<Xaroth|Work>how is the value needed?
11:24<Eddi|zuHause>maybe you should ask what you're actually trying to do
11:24<@planetmaker>openttd <1.3 still has 'custom'. And the difficulty is something which your AI can use or not use
11:24<@planetmaker>you set that in the adv. settings for AIs now
11:24<krinn>custom_value The default value if the custom difficulty level is selected. Required.
11:24<@planetmaker>thus it's a proxy on how difficult you want your AIs as player
11:25<Xaroth|Work>so what you're trying to say
11:25<Xaroth|Work>AIInfo::AddSetting has easy/medium/hard/custom value as required
11:25<@planetmaker>the custom_value makes no sense anymore
11:25<Xaroth|Work>while they are not used anymore
11:26<@planetmaker>easy/medium/hard are still used
11:26<dihedral>planetmaker, true treu :-)
11:26<Xaroth|Work>or that
11:26<Xaroth|Work>file a bug report :)
11:26<dihedral>but perhaps if the test starts an openttd instance to join a client ... :-D
11:26<dihedral>can gamescripts chat in the mean time?
11:27<dihedral>or AI's?
11:27<Xaroth|Work>dihedral: you can send data to gamescript? :P
11:27<Eddi|zuHause>i don't think so
11:27<Xaroth|Work>and have a gamescript send data back
11:27<dihedral>Xaroth|Work, that tests the gamescript part of the protocol, not the CLIENT_JOIN and LEAVE etc.
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11:27<dihedral>or CHAT
11:27<Eddi|zuHause>admin-port <-> GS communication can be done with JSON objects
11:28<Eddi|zuHause>other communication can be done via signs
11:28<krinn>That's strange guys, as previously the settings were set before game start, now it could be alter while running
11:28<Xaroth|Work>dihedral: yeh, but it's a bit hard to test with a human factor included ;)
11:28<Eddi|zuHause>but afaik direct chat was considered "wrong"
11:28<dihedral>Xaroth, why?
11:28<@planetmaker>krinn, yes, in principle it could. But you can decide to not care :-)
11:29<Eddi|zuHause>but your admin bot can read the chat, and send that to the GS
11:29<dihedral>i can send an rcon command to chat and expect to receive the chat packet in the bot
11:29<Xaroth|Work>because in tests you want to rule out as many variables as you can
11:29<Xaroth|Work>not introduce more :P
11:29<dihedral>i can trigger a program to start and connect the game and kill the program again
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11:29<@planetmaker>dihedral, regression tests should not involve a human factor at best :-)
11:29<Xaroth|Work>but I'm not going to build something that acts as a client :P
11:29<@planetmaker>regressions in openttd... hard
11:30<dihedral>Xaroth, the protocol is very similar :-P
11:30<@planetmaker>though... hm. with GS and admin port one might actually be able to do so :D
11:30<Xaroth|Work>dihedral: I see you volunteered for the job ;)
11:30<dihedral>or we add a --test parameter to openttd, which triggers packets to be sent based on xyz
11:31<dihedral>Xaroth, to be honest, that is what joan did before anything else :-P
11:31<Rubidium>can't you run a second openttd with -vnull and -nlocalhost ?
11:31<Rubidium>that would at least join and quit
11:31<dihedral>Rubidium, yes, i think that is the best thing to do
11:31<Xaroth|Work>Rubidium: yeh, but you'll want to test more than just quit/join
11:31<dihedral>Rubidium, and with scripts/on_connected.src chat ;-)
11:32<Xaroth|Work>that just leaves a large chunk out :P
11:32<dihedral>like what?
11:32<Xaroth|Work>joining/swapping companies
11:32<Xaroth|Work>cmd names/log
11:32<dihedral>that can be done with a script
11:33<@planetmaker>rcon move X Y
11:33<dihedral>the server starts with a predifned game which includes multiple companies
11:33<dihedral>the client can join and with an scr script after it has joined perform all required tasks and quit
11:33<dihedral>the start of the client can be triggered by the testing application
11:34<@planetmaker>hm :-)
11:35<dihedral>i think i will have a fun few weeks ;-)
11:35<dihedral>i am writing a piece of code into joan to perform the protocol test
11:36<dihedral>i can then include the client stuff aswell
11:36<dihedral>i am on my way home now
11:41<Xaroth|Work>planetmaker: a-d should be doable now with libottdadmin2
11:41<Xaroth|Work>just needs building of the proper handling of it
11:44<@planetmaker>wow, the long description really was tl;dr, Xaroth :-P
11:44<krinn>those changes have made the strange effect bypassing initial setting of level as now user can switch it when he wish
11:44<Xaroth|Work> is quite.. empty :P
11:47<krinn>per example: on init, base on difficulty i setup some vars, if user change them in game, the init won't happen again : it mean starting hard and switching to easy won't make it easier for real
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11:49<@planetmaker>krinn, yes. Either you occasionally re-check the setting (or is there an event) and adjust the var. Or you just ignore it. Your choice :-)
11:49<krinn>well, i check settings i have allowed user to change, but ones that were suppose not to be alter are now alterable
11:50<@planetmaker>things change :-)
11:50<krinn>AICONFIG_INGAME has no mean so ?
11:52<krinn>it was suppose to block user from changing a setting in game, now it doesn't
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11:53<krinn>well, in fact it was contrary, with AICONFIG_INGAME user can alter setting, without it, he couldn't, now he could always base on difficulty swapping
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11:56<@planetmaker>I don't know where that AICONFIG_INGAME is used... maybe that description needs adjustment?
11:57<@planetmaker>I know that it makes your life more difficult, but from a user perspective, isn't it nice, if you can adjust the AI difficulty to your (current) needs?
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11:59<@planetmaker>and the difficulty setting has that set differently from any other setting?
11:59<krinn>the option is still gray out
11:59<krinn>but if i pickup another difficulty all settings are change
12:00<krinn>so user cannot alter the option within the AI, like it was, but altering difficulty in openttd alter it
12:00<Eddi|zuHause>so when you change the difficulty, the setting is set to that difficulty's default setting, even if it's flagged as "don't change ingame"?
12:00<@planetmaker>ah, now I get what you describe
12:00<Eddi|zuHause>that is probably a bug
12:01<krinn>yes even disallow ingame the setting is alter
12:01<krinn>and any settings not touch by user are not kept too
12:04<krinn>if any of you have my ai it's easy to see: check the "Alter how the ai act with others", that is gray, but change when user change the difficulty in openttd
12:04<@planetmaker>krinn, please open an FS issue and describe the problem there... or it might be forgotten again.
12:04<krinn>planetmaker, going to do that
12:05<@planetmaker>thanks :-)
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12:09<@planetmaker>Xaroth, which python version do you programme for?
12:11<@planetmaker>/usr/lib/python2.7/distutils/ UserWarning: Unknown distribution option: 'install_requires'
12:14<Xaroth|Work>2.7 :o
12:15<Xaroth|Work>will check in a few
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12:31<Eddi|zuHause>"a group has spread several kilos of cannabis seed across Göttingen"
12:32<Xaroth|Work>planetmaker: that one's already pushed iirc
12:32<Xaroth|Work>in 1a74e80
12:32<@planetmaker>dunno, I pulled an hour ago or so
12:32<Xaroth|Work>i fixed it right after that :P
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12:43<Xaroth|Work>i'll look into that later :)
12:43<Eddi|zuHause>"from blah import *" is a code smell
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12:53<@planetmaker>o/ Alberth
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12:54<@Alberth>hi pm
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13:09<Xaroth|Work>strange error
13:10<Xaroth|Work>ah, it's not
13:10<Xaroth|Work>duh :|
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13:11<@planetmaker>quaaak :-)
13:12<frosch123>moin :)
13:12<Xaroth|Work>planetmaker: fixed pushed.. i think
13:12<Xaroth|Work>or at least
13:18<Xaroth|Work>been a while since i had to work with python's setuptools :|
13:20<@planetmaker>right... remains....
13:20<Xaroth|Work>how did that not get comitted
13:22<Xaroth|Work>more interestingly
13:22<Xaroth|Work>how did my test run work :P
13:22<@planetmaker>that's what I try to figure out, too :-P
13:22<@planetmaker>frosch123, do you have time tomorrow night for a FIRS testgame?
13:22<@planetmaker>andy said something along those lines...
13:23<Xaroth|Work>hm, odd
13:23<Xaroth|Work>that commit missed that entire file
13:23<@planetmaker>and Alberth, you, too?
13:23<frosch123>planetmaker: friday night is fine :)
13:23<@planetmaker>cool. I just prepare server... seems to be fine, surprisingly
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13:24<@planetmaker>Not sure I should already prepare map... maybe andy still wants to make a last-minute commit :-P
13:24<@Alberth>oh, game!
13:24<frosch123>planetmaker: will you be disappointed if not?
13:24<@planetmaker>if not what?
13:25<@Alberth>if no last-minute commit
13:25<frosch123>no fundamental changes in firs within a week -> firs is dieing?
13:25<@planetmaker>no, I won't, I guess
13:25<@planetmaker>Maybe I'll then create a map with today's nightly
13:26<@Alberth>oh, starting takes another 24 hours, no need to hurry thus :p
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13:26<@planetmaker>nope :-)
13:26<@planetmaker>andy and I talked about that a few days ago... was the only night he'd really have time it seems
13:29<Xaroth|Work>this -should- do it
13:29<Eddi|zuHause><planetmaker> Not sure I should already prepare map... maybe andy still wants to make a last-minute commit :-P <-- andy would never do anything on short notice :p
13:29<Xaroth|Work>apparently there were some files in the dir i was testing from
13:29<@planetmaker>Eddi|zuHause, exactly :-P
13:29<Xaroth|Work>that caused it to work properly while it was not functional
13:29<@DorpsGek>Commit by rubidium :: r25585 /trunk/src/3rdparty/squirrel/squirrel (sqvm.cpp sqvm.h) (2013-07-11 17:29:51 UTC)
13:29<@DorpsGek>-Fix [FS#5320]: [Squirrel] Stack overflow did not show an error, due to the stack to throw the error already being full
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13:44<@planetmaker>that looks much better now, Xaroth :-)
13:45<Xaroth|Work>time to pick up the missus
13:45<@DorpsGek>Commit by translators :: r25586 /trunk/src/lang (3 files) (2013-07-11 17:45:20 UTC)
13:45<@DorpsGek>-Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
13:45<@DorpsGek>russian - 6 changes by Lone_Wolf
13:45<@DorpsGek>gaelic - 71 changes by GunChleoc
13:45<@DorpsGek>vietnamese - 3 changes by nglekhoi
13:46<Xaroth|Work>planetmaker: easiest way to connect: from libottdadmin2.client import * ; a = AdminConnection() ; a.configure(password=x, host=y) ; a.connect()
13:46<Xaroth|Work>.poll returns after 1 second of not receiving anything
13:46<Xaroth|Work>unless you specify a timeout
13:46<Xaroth|Work>useful for main loops
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13:47<Xaroth|Work>if you need a test server; check the paste i showed earlier, it should have the hostname/creds
13:48<@planetmaker>test server runs local fine, but thanks
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13:56<Eddi|zuHause> (Spoiler if you didn't watch GoT season 1) :p
13:57<@Alberth>I don't even know what GoT is :p
13:57<@planetmaker>game of thrones
13:57<@planetmaker>best series around currently :-)
13:57<@Alberth>oh, right, the big hype
13:57<@planetmaker>both as book or movie
13:58<frosch123>maybe i should read the book
13:58<@planetmaker>Yesterday I bought the 5 books available :-)
13:58<Eddi|zuHause>it rightfully deserves that hype :p
13:58<frosch123>can't be bothered to watch tv :p
14:01<@planetmaker>Eddi|zuHause, that's more than season1
14:02<@planetmaker>or so I believe
14:02<Eddi|zuHause>not really
14:02<@planetmaker>I'd think the Dothraki lost their Khal only in 2
14:03<Eddi|zuHause>no, that was the end of season 1
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14:04<Eddi|zuHause>in season 2 they moved through the desert to "the greatest city there ever was and ever will be"
14:05<@planetmaker>I love it how they allow the one of the 13 to enjoy his treasures forever :-)
14:05<@planetmaker>supposedly book and film differ at the house of the undying
14:05<Eddi|zuHause>and in season 3 they (*spoiler*)
14:06<Eddi|zuHause>i didn't read the books, so i don't really care about the differences
14:06<Eddi|zuHause>like i also didn't read lord of the rings
14:06<Eddi|zuHause>and i don't care about the differences there either
14:07<@planetmaker>not really... but I can't be bothered to wait for seasons 4 and 5 ;-)
14:08<Eddi|zuHause>George R. R. Martin: "the last book took 6 years to come out, so i fear the TV series might catch up" :p
14:09<krinn>Later guys (still i blame Eddi|zuHause for not reading lotr book! )
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14:14<frosch123>i heard the lotr book :p
14:14<Eddi|zuHause> <-- this is really great :) (spoiler-ish for season 3)
14:16<Eddi|zuHause> <-- also thos (same warning as above)
14:16<__ln__>the beginning of lotr is so dull that i bet many people quit there.
14:16<__ln__>the lotr book, that is.
14:16<__ln__>but it gets better.
14:17<@planetmaker>I quit there the first time
14:17<@planetmaker>Only in the 2nd attempt I got past the first 300 pages or so
14:18<__ln__>gandalf visits frodo in the spring, and tells he should go on a journey not later than in the autumn.
14:19<__ln__>that alone is quite different than the time scale in the movie.
14:19*ToBeFree thought GoT is God of Thunder, a very very old game... DOS, I believe
14:20<Eddi|zuHause>the time frame of the movie is a little inconsistent, or at least not very clear
14:20<Eddi|zuHause>they occasionally sprinkle in "it has been X months since we left the shire"
14:20<ToBeFree> yay
14:24<Xaroth|Work>the red wedding was epic
14:24<Xaroth|Work>it was better in the books tho
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14:40<__ln__>the last paragraph in particular
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15:39<@planetmaker>hi andythenorth
15:41<@planetmaker>andythenorth, only thing missing for tomorrow is a map :-)
15:41<andythenorth>ah yes :)
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15:41<andythenorth>needs to be tropic
15:42<@planetmaker>I still plan to make one tonight... just FIRS nightly?
15:42<@planetmaker>any other wishes?
15:42<@planetmaker>any special GS?
15:46<andythenorth>FIRS nightly, a nice trainset, CHIPS
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15:47<@planetmaker>k :-) Was along the lines I was thinking, too
15:50<frosch123>brazilian town names?
15:50<@planetmaker>:-) good idea
15:50<@planetmaker>Or South African
15:50<frosch123>whichever sound more exotic
15:50<frosch123>i am worried about them being just european :p
15:51<andythenorth>we need a decent trainset for Tropic :P
15:51<andythenorth>I should make one
15:51<andythenorth>export engines
15:52<@planetmaker>UKRS in the sun ;-)
15:52<@planetmaker>but too old, I think
15:52<andythenorth>too old
15:55<@planetmaker>Xaroth, definitely should add a trailing whitespace check to his editor
15:57<@DorpsGek>Commit by planetmaker :: r25587 /trunk/src/network (4 files in 2 dirs) (2013-07-11 19:57:40 UTC)
15:57<@DorpsGek>-Add FS#5643: Conclude rcon output sent to admin clients with an RCON_END packet (Xaroth)
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16:05<Sacro>planetmaker: surely I shouldn't need to alter his source in order to just compile it ><
16:08<Eddi|zuHause>"Moscow-Havannah flight takes an unusal route today"
16:08<Sacro>Eddi|zuHause: yes, because of weather
16:09<Eddi|zuHause>i'm sure that's what it is :p
16:09<@planetmaker>what, Sacro ?
16:09<Sacro>planetmaker: this openttd patchpack, I shoudn't have to fix it first surely?
16:10<Sacro>does the GPL not say it should 'just build'?
16:10<Supercheese>which patchpack?
16:11<andythenorth>time for code
16:12<andythenorth>I quite enjoyed reading this:
16:12<andythenorth>and now I will make something
16:12<andythenorth>or talk about it :P
16:13<@planetmaker>err... I still don't get how that patchpack relates to anything done or said here, but maybe you can tell me :-)
16:13<Supercheese>He's already built binaries, no?
16:13<@planetmaker>I'm still lost as of the context of that question
16:13<Sacro>planetmaker: he's provided a 'specia' diff
16:14<Sacro>his diff doesn't merge cleanly
16:14<Sacro>his source doesn't compie
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16:14<Sacro>Supercheese: so? You surley can't provide working binaries with broken source?
16:14<Xaroth|Work>planetmaker: i use a simple text editor, not an IDE :)
16:15<Sacro>I don't want a music set ><
16:15<Sacro>piss off, you're a dedicated server
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16:15<Eddi|zuHause>Sacro: the GPL does not say it has to build in every environment out there
16:15<tritoch_>any easy way to sell all trains?
16:15<Sacro>Eddi|zuHause: mm
16:15<tritoch_>bought out a company with 500 trains and want to liquidate
16:15<andythenorth>tritoch_: send all to one depot
16:15<Eddi|zuHause>tritoch_: there is a "sell all" button if they are all in one depot
16:15<tritoch_>ugh AI built 1000 depots
16:17<andythenorth>how tedious :P
16:17<tritoch_>yeah i have to destroy all those next
16:17<Eddi|zuHause>then you're probably out of luck
16:17<Eddi|zuHause>or you destroy the depots first
16:17<tritoch_>already destroyed a good amount of track unfortunately
16:18<tritoch_>was hoping there was some way to do it from groups or replace i didn't know about
16:19<Sacro>OpenTTD has no concept of 'Happy faces'
16:20<Eddi|zuHause>you can only send them to depot from there, or autoreplace. but not sell
16:20<tritoch_>ok thanks
16:20<tritoch_>i'll just load a pre-buyout save
16:20<Eddi|zuHause>Sacro: attach your issues to the two-earrings-report? :p
16:20<Eddi|zuHause>is that even still open?
16:23<@planetmaker>happy faces?
16:23<andythenorth>code removal ftw
16:24*andythenorth unwrites code
16:24<Supercheese>-2000 lines
16:24<andythenorth>it's an old story :)
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16:31<@DorpsGek>Commit by planetmaker :: r25588 /trunk/src/network (4 files in 2 dirs) (2013-07-11 20:31:39 UTC)
16:31<@DorpsGek>-Feature [FS#5643]: PING and PONG packets for admin port (Xaroth)
16:32<andythenorth>hmm HEQS needs this,r:5,s:0,i:97&iact=rc&page=1&tbnh=171&tbnw=243&start=0&ndsp=21&tx=140&ty=142
16:33<Eddi|zuHause>next time without the whole google wrap?
16:34<Eddi|zuHause>and what are we supposed to see there?
16:35<andythenorth>hang on
16:35<Xaroth|Work><3 planetmaker
16:36<Eddi|zuHause>so that's some sort of harvest machine?
16:36<andythenorth>sugarcane hauler
16:36<andythenorth>unloads to narrow gauge rail cars
16:38<Eddi|zuHause>"the theory circulates that the 'information' that snowden might have been on morales' machine was issued by russian FSB, to test the USA's reaction, and to set up the south american leaders against the US"
16:39<frosch123>andythenorth: the closest i came to that ideal was r12346, fixing two fs taks with basically only removing code
16:39<Eddi|zuHause>this is pure cold war game theory :)
16:42<Eddi|zuHause>frosch123: i count two + lines that aren't only comment changes
16:43<frosch123>those lines also only result from previous lines by removing some chars
16:43<frosch123>like "}", "{" and "else" or so
16:44<Eddi|zuHause>__ln__: oooold
16:45<__ln__>oh, so it is
16:45<Eddi|zuHause>if you look back at cold war strategies which are based on game theory, you really notice that americans are poker players, while russians are chess players :p
16:47<andythenorth>makefile editing :(
16:47<@planetmaker>what you need, andythenorth ?
16:48<andythenorth>I'm removing the FISH.cfg file that the makefile uses as a target
16:48<andythenorth>so I need to use something else?
16:48<andythenorth>it was bad anyway, I had to use make clean constantly, as that file wasn't changing but codebase was
16:48<Eddi|zuHause>as a target for what?
16:48<andythenorth>not sure, my make knowledge is 'edit + hope'
16:48<andythenorth>fish.nml: src/FISH.cfg $(GENERATE)
16:48<Eddi|zuHause>that means you messed up your dependencies
16:49<Eddi|zuHause>do you have a link to the file?
16:49<andythenorth>was a nasty hack anyway
16:50<andythenorth>planetmaker was AWOL when I did it :D
16:50<andythenorth>so FISH.cfg is removed
16:50<Eddi|zuHause>so, you remove the .cfg, and add _all_ .py files to GENERATE=...
16:50<andythenorth>or by name?
16:51<Eddi|zuHause>by name
16:51<@Alberth>find . -name "*.py" -print
16:51<andythenorth>I wonder how FIRS does it
16:51<andythenorth>FIRS seems to work ok
16:51<andythenorth>oh this
16:52-!-ZxBiohazardZx [] has quit [Quit: Easy as 3.14159265358979323846... ]
16:52<Eddi|zuHause>this is how CETS does it
16:53<andythenorth>FIRS doesn't bother looking for deps?
16:53<andythenorth>just rebuilds everything every time make runs?
16:54<andythenorth>hmm, different chain, there's a CPP step for FIRS too
16:54<andythenorth>dunno if that matters
16:54<Eddi|zuHause>no idea
16:54<andythenorth>me neither :)
16:54<andythenorth>works though
16:55<Eddi|zuHause>having to do "make -B" is bad habit, though
16:55<@Alberth>partial rebuild is kind of useless for newgrfs
16:55<@Alberth>as you cannot link newgrf object files together
16:56<Eddi|zuHause>well YOU can't :p
16:56<@Alberth>so yeah, the only solution is to build it entirely every time
16:56<andythenorth>I am tempted to try :P
16:56<andythenorth>I am fine with building everything every time
16:56<@Alberth>andythenorth: Eddi|zuHause has a hack for it
16:56<andythenorth>I know :)
16:57<andythenorth>it might be getting too late for 'teach andythenorth make'
16:57<@planetmaker>it basically does what NML set out to start with - until we discovered that it could as well write everything
16:57<@Alberth>gnu make manual is very good
16:58<@planetmaker>yes, I learnt a lot there :-)
16:58<@Alberth>much more than I know ;)
16:58<andythenorth>planetmaker: any way you can figure out which makefile FISH has? (your most up to date version?)
16:59<Eddi|zuHause>"Transparency International: the media are now perceived as more corrupt than the parliament in germany"
16:59<@Alberth>good night
17:00<@planetmaker>g'night Alberth
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17:00<Eddi|zuHause>(only worse are the individual political parties, and the private economy sector)
17:01<andythenorth>I think I need a phony target
17:01<andythenorth>need / is easiest /s
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17:02<Eddi|zuHause>you could also write a python dependency analyzer
17:02<Eddi|zuHause>there's already a builtin parser, so you just have to walk the tree and look for import statements
17:03<Eddi|zuHause>i actually wrote such a thing before :)
17:04<andythenorth>11s build right now
17:04<andythenorth>would that be an optimisation step?
17:04<andythenorth>in fact, not calling nmlc twice *might* be a better optimisation :o
17:04<Eddi|zuHause>probably not
17:04<andythenorth>why _does_ FISH call nmlc twice? :P
17:05<Eddi|zuHause>because of the gfx-dependency calculation
17:05<Eddi|zuHause>you probably didn't update the makefile
17:05<andythenorth>it was just a hack :P
17:06<andythenorth>I think it needs rewriting properly
17:07<@planetmaker>if you do that, base it on make-nml
17:07<Eddi|zuHause>just re-import from the makefile project, and keep your
17:08<Eddi|zuHause>since you really should not have changed any other files :)
17:08<andythenorth>all I need to change is one target file afaict
17:08<andythenorth>I have tried to read make manual, but basically it's "start at the top" :P
17:09<andythenorth>I usually skip most docs and just read about specific keywords
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17:09<andythenorth>this isn't always good
17:10<SamanthaD>Hey everyone!
17:10<@planetmaker>andythenorth, the Make manual imho is well-structured... so not reading everything works usually...
17:11<andythenorth>I think I missed a step about key concepts & terminology ;)
17:11<@planetmaker>key concept is
17:11<@planetmaker>target: dependencies
17:11<@planetmaker> rules how to create target from dependency
17:12<andythenorth>neat explanation
17:12<andythenorth>and if the dependency hasn't changed?
17:12<SamanthaD>Question: How close to a road does a building need to be to spawn in a town/city?
17:13<SamanthaD>really?! so how do 3x3 city grids work?!
17:13<andythenorth>gap in the middle
17:13<andythenorth>or filled by 2x2 buildings
17:14<SamanthaD>oh! that makes sense, thanks
17:14<@planetmaker>afaik yes
17:14<andythenorth>gives you somewhere to put stations whene station walking :P
17:14*andythenorth always station walks in cities
17:14<SamanthaD>What I'm doing is building a "muni" system by replacing every other road with train tracks
17:15<@planetmaker>good night
17:15<SamanthaD>night planetmaker
17:15<SamanthaD>and do the ends of bridges count as "roads"?
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17:17<Xaroth|Work>they do allow roads to be built to them
17:17<Xaroth|Work>iirc there was something odd with them
17:17<Xaroth|Work>that a bridge counted as a road of length 1
17:17<Xaroth|Work>so you could build bridges from the town center out, and when the city grew, skyscrapers would not only form in the center, but also near the bridge ends
17:18<SamanthaD>Thanks! Just as long as buildings will spawn next to the ends I'm good :3
17:18<Xaroth|Work>not sure if buildings will spawn next to the bridge head, or if they really want a road attached to it
17:20<SamanthaD>I guess I'll experiment a bit
17:20<SamanthaD>if anything else, I could just use tunnels under my tracks instead of bridges over them
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17:24<SamanthaD>Also, in Cargodist if I have a series of stations on the same "line" (let's call them A - Z) and I service them with two routes, one that stops at every station and one that skips stations, are passengers smart enough to transfer from the local to the express lines when appropriate?
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17:32<andythenorth>bed time
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17:46<Xaroth|Work>Receive_ADMIN_GAMESCRIPT limits received json data to NETWORK_GAMESCRIPT_JSON_LENGTH
17:47<Xaroth|Work>SendGameScript compares it to SEND_MTU (-4)
17:47<Xaroth|Work>so it can send 6 bytes more than it can receive
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17:55<Xaroth|Work>thar, patch made and reported
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---Logclosed Fri Jul 12 00:00:05 2013