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#openttd IRC Logs for 2013-07-13

---Logopened Sat Jul 13 00:00:06 2013
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02:18<@DorpsGek>Commit by rubidium :: r25593 /trunk/src/network/core (3 files) (2013-07-13 06:18:16 UTC)
02:18<@DorpsGek>-Cleanup: remove a few stale #defines
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02:29<andythenorth>Moin
02:31<@planetmaker>moin
02:32-!-frosch123 [~frosch@frnk-590f7f76.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd
02:32<@planetmaker>quak
02:32<frosch123>moin
02:32<frosch123>more sleepless people :)
02:33<@planetmaker>yeah :-)
02:34<Rubidium>nah...
02:39<@DorpsGek>Commit by rubidium :: r25594 /trunk/src/script/api (3 files) (2013-07-13 06:38:54 UTC)
02:39<@DorpsGek>-Fix-ish: some Doxygen warnings/errors for scripts
02:41<andythenorth>Early to bed, early to rise
02:41<frosch123>you have toddlers, you have no power about your wake time
02:42*andythenorth wonders if ogfx has some 1 tile building to repaint for FIRS trading post
02:44<@DorpsGek>Commit by rubidium :: r25595 /trunk (5 files in 2 dirs) (2013-07-13 06:44:22 UTC)
02:44<@DorpsGek>-Fix-ish: move the Doxygen .tag files into objs, so they are automatically ignored and removed upon mrproper/distclean. Furthermore remove the gamedocs folder too
02:44<@planetmaker>not sure, andythenorth... maybe the saloon?
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02:49<andythenorth>planetmaker: thanks will look later
02:50<frosch123>hmm, never saw the "monthly supply" thingie in the station view
02:50<frosch123>is that a cargodist thing?
02:51<@planetmaker>@base 16 10 A7
02:51<@DorpsGek>planetmaker: 167
02:55<@planetmaker>lol, the building I had in mind is the tropical church, andythenorth :-)
02:56<@planetmaker>http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/opengfx/repository/entry/sprites/png/houses/trop_4604_church.png
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03:04<Dr_Tan>are there any grfs that replace food/goods demand from houses with market buildings that appear in cities with large enough populations and demand goods and food?
03:04<Dr_Tan>that would make delivering them much less irritating
03:04-!-Dr_Tan is now known as Nat_aS
03:05<@planetmaker>dunno. maybe you draw some?
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03:07<Supercheese>FIRS has food markets
03:08<@planetmaker>even the default game has them.
03:08<Supercheese>but of course default houses still want goods/food
03:08<@planetmaker>there's a 2x2 building by default which very much looks like a supermarket
03:08<Nat_aS>I was thinking having them always be present in any city above X size
03:08<Nat_aS>like the water tower
03:09<@planetmaker>the water tower is also not necessarily present ;-)
03:09<Nat_aS>well in towns with desert tiles it is
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03:09<@planetmaker>even there not
03:10<Nat_aS>oh yeah, I'm so used to playing built maps
03:10<@planetmaker>the tower is an industry. without it present and having water delivered to, a desert town won't grow, though
03:10<Nat_aS>I never play random
03:10<@planetmaker>but you can create in SE a BIIIIG desert map w/o tower
03:10<@planetmaker>possibly even ingame byfunding building construction
03:10<Nat_aS>SE?
03:10<@planetmaker>scenario editor
03:10<Nat_aS>ahh
03:12<Nat_aS>would be nice if every town had a market for food collection
03:12<@planetmaker>make a house newgrf
03:12<Nat_aS>and once it got big enough a shopping mall would be added for goods collection
03:12<@planetmaker>or first make the sprites
03:13<Nat_aS>would simplify triatary goods delivery
03:13<Nat_aS>I hate it when towns stop accepting goods because a house got moved
03:30<@planetmaker>ah... with k3diff the branch updating works nicer than with vimdiff :-)
03:31<Rubidium>frosch123: rather from the flow logger, but yes... cargodist could be seen as its origin (just like implicit orders)
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03:47<andythenorth>planetmaker: that is a good sprite to adapt thanks
03:47<@planetmaker>very welcome :-)
03:48<V453000>andythenorth: are there any other new cargoes other than coffee?
03:48<andythenorth>No
03:49<andythenorth>All others were already in ttd
03:49<V453000>...
03:49<V453000>I mean any other cargo new in firs which nuts doesnt support yet
03:49<@planetmaker>he meant the new economy "Heart of Darkness"
03:50<@planetmaker>other economies didn't change
03:50<V453000>oh :) hm
03:50<V453000>well still
03:51<andythenorth>Typing on ipad slow
03:51<frosch123>http://newgrf-specs.tt-wiki.net/index.php?title=CargoTypes&diff=3423&oldid=3357 <- looks like only coffee
03:51<andythenorth>I binned frvg as well
03:51<andythenorth>Uses frut now
03:52<V453000>omg
03:52<V453000>well thats fine, frut is what the ttd tropic one is right?
03:52<@planetmaker>yeah
03:52<andythenorth>Yup
03:53<V453000>good then that needs no fixing :D
03:54<andythenorth>Bbl -going gromit hunting
03:55<andythenorth>http://www.gromitunleashed.org.uk/
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05:05<@DorpsGek>Commit by rubidium :: r25596 extra/masterserver_updater/src/contentserver/handler.cpp (2013-07-13 09:05:11 UTC)
05:05<@DorpsGek>[MSU] -Fix [FS#5635]: The content server would terminate the connection after 2 minutes if it weren't sending enough data fast enough to fill the operating system's send buffer. For example the content list fits completely in the operating system's send buffer, and as a result it did nu update the 'last activity' counter which meant it would just close the 'idle' network connection
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05:23<Wolf01>hello
05:26<@DorpsGek>Commit by rubidium :: r25597 /trunk/src/network (3 files in 2 dirs) (2013-07-13 09:26:11 UTC)
05:26<@DorpsGek>-Fix [FS#5635]: [Content] When the server closed the connection, the client would for eternity try to read a packet and never timeout making it impossible to reconnect
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05:27<Rubidium>buongiorno Wolf01
05:40<Wolf01>strange, when I check the time in the morning is always 11:38, I think is a clear signal to see that movie...
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05:59<@DorpsGek>Commit by planetmaker :: r25598 trunk/docs/admin_network.txt (2013-07-13 09:59:09 UTC)
05:59<@DorpsGek>-Doc: Implications of the asynchronous processing of the rcon content command on send time of ADMIN_SERVER_ADMIN_RCON and ADMIN_SERVER_ADMIN_RCON_END packets
06:01<Xaroth|Work>planetmaker: got a situation for that?
06:01<Xaroth|Work>so I can test it
06:01<@planetmaker>rcon content update
06:01<Xaroth|Work>k, will check later today
06:01<@planetmaker>rcon content select *
06:01<@planetmaker>rcon content download
06:02<@planetmaker>would do as well, I guess
06:02<@planetmaker>snytax might slightly vary. written by heart
06:02<Xaroth|Work>but that still outputs to rcon packets? :o
06:03<Rubidium>probably not
06:03<Xaroth|Work>thought so
06:03<Xaroth|Work>as the RCON_END packet is sent after the redirect is reset to normal
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06:14<@DorpsGek>TrueBrain: Commit by rubidium :: r25599 /branches/1.3 (24 files in 9 dirs) (2013-07-13 10:13:55 UTC)
06:14<@DorpsGek>TrueBrain: [1.3] -Backport from trunk:
06:14<@DorpsGek>TrueBrain: - Fix: [Admin] End-of-rcon data could not be determined reliably for any rcon command [FS#5643] (r25598, r25588, r25587)
06:14<@DorpsGek>TrueBrain: - Fix: [Content] When the server closed the connection, the client would for eternity try to read a packet and never timeout making it impossible to reconnect [FS#5635] (r25597)
06:14<@DorpsGek>TrueBrain: - Fix: [Script] Changing the script difficulty level in-game would also change the settings using the default even though they were not allowed to change in-game [FS#5644] (r25592)
06:14<@DorpsGek>TrueBrain: (...)
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06:28<@DorpsGek>Commit by translators :: r25600 /trunk/src/lang (38 files in 2 dirs) (2013-07-13 10:28:31 UTC)
06:28<@DorpsGek>-Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
06:28<@DorpsGek>traditional_chinese - 8 changes by siu238X
06:28<@DorpsGek>japanese - 287 changes by guppy
06:28<@DorpsGek>russian - 1 changes by Lone_Wolf
06:28<@DorpsGek>tamil - 6 changes by ganesh
06:29<NCG3982>My god, the eye tracking documentation for the Galaxy S4 is horrible.
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06:34<Rubidium>シューシュー ;)
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06:35<@planetmaker>hehe
06:37<@DorpsGek>Commit by rubidium :: r25601 /branches/1.3/src/lang (6 files) (2013-07-13 10:37:17 UTC)
06:37<@DorpsGek>[1.3] -Backport from trunk: language updates
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06:40<@DorpsGek>Commit by rubidium :: r25602 /branches/1.3 (6 files in 4 dirs) (2013-07-13 10:39:57 UTC)
06:40<@DorpsGek>[1.3] -Prepare: for 1.3.2-RC2
06:45<@DorpsGek>Commit by rubidium :: r25603 /tags/1.3.2-RC2 (3 files in 3 dirs) (2013-07-13 10:45:52 UTC)
06:45<@DorpsGek>-Release: 1.3.2-RC2
06:47<Eddi|zuHause>eye tracking is a really dangerous thing... the first thing that will come is that advertisments get paid only if they were seen, the next thing the popups will appear where you're currently looking at, and it can only get worse from that....
06:48<Eddi|zuHause>imagine google glass: "you looked at this woman's ass, want to look her up on facebook?"
06:48<V453000>:D
06:48<V453000>thats nice
06:49<Eddi|zuHause>possibly, but you will notice how often you really look at women's asses.
06:49<Eddi|zuHause>and what if your gf/wife has an app that gets this notice from your app?
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06:51<V453000>meh then :D
06:51<Eddi|zuHause>or imagine: "this person looks at kids a lot, alert the authorities that he might become a child molester"
06:51<NCG3982>Eddi|zuHause: Oh god, true.
06:52*Rubidium was rather thinking about: "you saw crime XYZ happening and did nothing, you are an accomplice"
06:52<Eddi|zuHause>or in general "this guy is 98% likely to commit a crime"
06:54<Eddi|zuHause>there was an american supermarket chain which noticed things like "if a woman buys unscented body soap, and a month later buys vitamin pills, it's 99% probability she's pregnant" and then sent out congratulation letters
06:55<Eddi|zuHause>and then a guy complained that his 14 year old daughter got such a letter
06:55<Rubidium>... which was incidentally pregnant as well (?)
06:55<Eddi|zuHause>the father turned really quiet the next day :)
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07:00*Rubidium is happy they don't seem to be doing such things here
07:00<Rubidium>generally they are harshly frowned upon when they do such things
07:01<Eddi|zuHause>you really think they're not doing that?
07:01<@planetmaker>they're harshly frowned upon when someone makes it public that they do such things
07:01<Rubidium>they're doing it to some extent
07:01<Eddi|zuHause>maybe not sending out personalized letters, but reorganizing store layouts and stuff
07:02<Rubidium>Eddi|zuHause: but that is generally datamining without getting personal information like address and name
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07:03<Eddi|zuHause>Rubidium: think of what kind of data they collect to determine your credit rating
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07:04<Rubidium>I know of one time when they willingly broke the rules and weren't punished for it. Someone was putting rat poison into some food, so everyone that bought food they had a suspicion of containing rat poison was contacted by the supermarket (which is IMO the right use of such data)
07:05<@planetmaker>that's somewhat different, yes
07:05<Rubidium>Eddi|zuHause: here all debs are registered at some organisation, including whether you paid them on time or not
07:06<Eddi|zuHause>Rubidium: i mean things like "this guy bought a cheaper brand of cigarretes than he used to"
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07:20*Zuu_ got no customer card for groceries, though I usually pay using thr same card, so if they record a token based on my card Id they could track me whithout me getting any bonus. :p
07:26<Eddi|zuHause>about half the time i pay in cash, but that probably doesn't help a lot either
07:27<@planetmaker>they likely do that, Zuu_ :-)
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07:35<frosch123>Eddi|zuHause: it's recorded under "the guy that pays in cash"
07:35<frosch123>http://xkcd.com/1105/
07:36<Eddi|zuHause>i'm sure if you're running a basic pattern matching algorithm over a bunch of cash paid bills with the items that were bought, you can easily split them up between individual people. assuming they buy there regularly
07:42<Eddi|zuHause>frosch123: that only works if there are two guys with very similar license plates :)
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07:45<Eddi|zuHause>oh crap, tiny insect season has begun
07:48<frosch123>get more big insects
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07:50<Eddi|zuHause>or just don't open the window for the next 6 weeks
07:50<zooks>brr, thinking of the enormous bugs in my room in Zimbabwe
07:51<Eddi|zuHause>we had a rather big bug while picking cherries last week
07:51<Eddi|zuHause>about this long <---------->
07:51<Eddi|zuHause>and green!
07:51*frosch123 switches to 320x200 resolution
07:51<frosch123>green is fine!
07:52<Eddi|zuHause>metallic green
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07:52<frosch123>unicorn-coloured?
07:52<Eddi|zuHause>lack of comparison :p
07:52<zooks>http://i.imgur.com/f6eV9cz.jpg
07:53<Eddi|zuHause>but unicorns are usually described as bright white :)
07:53<frosch123>zooks: that looks like 20 cm
07:53<frosch123>Eddi|zuHause: most are rainbow
07:53<frosch123>or pink
07:53<zooks>frosch123, with antennas I'd estimate it on 15cm
07:54<zooks>it was on my bed :)
07:54<Eddi|zuHause>wait, you didn't actually get a ruler out?
07:54<Xaroth|Work>oeh, grats on r25600
07:54<zooks>no, I squashed it with a large book
07:55<Eddi|zuHause>the poor thing :(
07:58<zooks>Is it true that the tour the France is being denied by the German media?
07:58<@planetmaker>"there is no tour de France"? :-P
07:59<Eddi|zuHause>yes-ish, but that has been going on for years now
08:00<Eddi|zuHause>i don't know how it is this year, but one of the previous years when the doping scandals stacked up, channels stopped the live broadcast
08:00<@planetmaker>who cares anyway?
08:00<Eddi|zuHause>it's probably still on eurosport
08:00<@planetmaker>Tour de Dope
08:01<Eddi|zuHause>and they still report highlights and stuff
08:01<Eddi|zuHause>i haven't watched in years
08:01<zooks>Some German riders are doing very well, so I was wondering whether they would be acknowledged in Germany
08:02<@planetmaker>it's reported, yes
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10:12<@DorpsGek>Commit by rubidium :: r25604 trunk/src/vehicle.cpp (2013-07-13 14:12:14 UTC)
10:12<@DorpsGek>-Fix [FS#5550]: Only the front engine's date of last service was updated
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11:03<@DorpsGek>Commit by rubidium :: r25605 trunk/src/script/api/script_rail.cpp (2013-07-13 15:03:42 UTC)
11:03<@DorpsGek>-Fix [FS#5641]: [Script] If a NewGRF returned station type that could not be built by an AI via callback 18, an unknown error would be thrown instead of falling back to the default station
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12:19<V453000>does an univ railtype newGRF need to redefine the other railtypes in order to be compatible with them?
12:19<V453000>cause I made a railtype with compatible_railtype_list: ["UNIV", "RAIL", "ELRL", "MONO", "MGLV", "WETR", "UNI1", "UNI2","UNI3","UNI4","UNI5","UNI6","UNI7","UNI8"] and powered the same, but neither of those tracks are compatible with it
12:19<V453000>with nuts or without
12:19<V453000>thing is http://paste.openttdcoop.org/show/2391/
12:21<V453000>UNI1-UNI8 are various new rails but for some reason I cant get any trains to be able to drive on them
12:21<V453000>why :s
12:21<@planetmaker>you don't need to re-define them. You just need to list their labels as compatible
12:22<@planetmaker>and / or as powered on. Or introduced by / introducing
12:22<V453000>I did both of them
12:22<V453000>not the introducing ones though
12:22<V453000>but the UNIV rail I have NUTS works without that too
12:23<V453000>http://paste.openttdcoop.org/show/2392/
12:24<@planetmaker>you might want to go even further. And also add some labels from other railway sets
12:24<V453000>it doesnt work atm so cant do that yet
12:24<@planetmaker>universal rail surely needs neither 'introduces railtype XX' nor 'requires railtype XXX being introduced'
12:25<V453000>with only the rail newGRF loaded, no trains from rail,elrl,mono,or mglv can drive on it
12:25<@planetmaker>what you *might* set is the 'alternative_railtype_list' - a list of railtypes which it will act as plug-in for, if they are not defined
12:26<@planetmaker>oh, hm. yes
12:26<@planetmaker>you need to set the compatibility of the *other* railtypes to the universal
12:26<@planetmaker>so indeed you need to define that property for those
12:27<V453000>right, so I need to re-define all of the railtypes too
12:27<V453000>hmm
12:27<@planetmaker>you can really do that very simplistic: only that single property need be set
12:27<@planetmaker>that suffices
12:27<@planetmaker>no graphics, no knowledge about any other property needed
12:27<V453000>right
12:28<@planetmaker>just re-defining a single property. :-)
12:28<V453000>will try, question number 2 inc soon :P
12:28<@planetmaker>btw, I'd guard that by a check for the railtypes availability
12:29<@planetmaker>as in the example on http://newgrf-specs.tt-wiki.net/wiki/NML:Railtypes
12:29<@planetmaker>first paragraph
12:29<V453000>mhf
12:32<V453000>nice, re-defining seems to work
12:32<@planetmaker>http://paste.openttdcoop.org/show/2393/
12:33<@planetmaker>untested and likely buggy, though ;-)
12:33<V453000>oh like that
12:33<V453000>hmm
12:34<V453000>I have to admit I dont care about people who add too many railtypes together but hm
12:40<@planetmaker>well... but makes it more fail-proof
12:41<@planetmaker>with little effort, I'd think
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12:41<V453000>I might try to add it after I have something working :)
12:41<@planetmaker>that's a good idea surely :-)
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13:03<V453000>which might be the case very soon :)
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13:45<@DorpsGek>Commit by translators :: r25606 /trunk/src/lang (3 files) (2013-07-13 17:45:20 UTC)
13:45<@DorpsGek>-Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
13:45<@DorpsGek>german - 5 changes by Jogio
13:45<@DorpsGek>japanese - 1 changes by guppy
13:45<@DorpsGek>korean - 4 changes by telk5093
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15:16<dihedral>planetmaker, http://vcs.openttd.org/svn/changeset/25598/
15:16<dihedral>that looks to me like the RCON_END packet is absolutely useless
15:16<@planetmaker>yes. no. maybe :-)
15:17<Rubidium>it is for asynchronous stuff
15:17<@planetmaker>afaik only when content is called
15:17<Rubidium>but that's effectively two things, and by the looks of things those asynchronous replies are not even sent back via rcon
15:18<Xaroth|Work>and even in the case of async stuff, it's an ack.
15:18<Rubidium>so if you download via rcon you have no clue whether it's down, unless you manage to get the non rcon console stuff
15:18<andythenorth>@seen snail
15:18<@DorpsGek>andythenorth: snail was last seen in #openttd 13 weeks, 5 days, 20 hours, 33 minutes, and 44 seconds ago: <Snail> new japanese anime :p
15:20<dihedral>ah - ok
15:20<dihedral>and just for the reference ... the ping pong patch was mine you had committed. just in case you were looking for the other :-P
15:21<@planetmaker>I committed the paste Xaroth gave me
15:21<Xaroth|Work>i gave pastes?
15:21<@planetmaker>when all of us talked in the afternoon
15:21<Xaroth|Work>i uploaded patches to the flyspray
15:21<@planetmaker>well... 17:xx that day
15:21<@planetmaker>:D
15:21<dihedral>dih uploaded pasts :-P
15:21<Xaroth|Work>i did a few pastes as well
15:22<dihedral>Xaroth|Work, used 'payload' and public methods, dih used d1 and private methods :-D
15:22<Xaroth|Work>but the final version was sent to flyspray
15:22<dihedral>none the less Xaroth|Work you did good work :-)
15:22*dihedral likes
15:22<@planetmaker>sorry, if I then mis-attributed the patch, dihedral
15:24<@planetmaker>you win a beer in two weeks :D
15:26<dihedral>planetmaker, nah - that's fine, i just wanted to point it out, that's all
15:26<dihedral>just in case...
15:27<dihedral>you never know if there were intentions to commit a patch from one person and accidentially swapped the two patches ;-)
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15:46<dihedral>to be honest, i enjoy the admin port receiving commits :-P
15:46<dihedral>so that alone made my day :-)
15:47<dihedral>planetmaker, you did forget though about the completion of the GameScript patch... but i do think i need to revise it :-P
15:48<@planetmaker>:-)
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16:06<dihedral>good night :-)
16:06<@planetmaker>g'night dihedral
16:22<frosch123>@topic set 1 1.3.1, 1.3.2-RC2
16:22-!-DorpsGek changed the topic of #openttd to: 1.3.1, 1.3.2-RC2 | Website: *.openttd.org (translator: translator, server list: servers, wiki: wiki, patches & bug-reports: bugs, revision log: vcs, release info: finger) | Don't ask to ask, just ask | 'Latest' is not a valid version, 'Most recent' neither | English only | #openttd.dev for dev-talk | #openttd.notice for commit notices
16:26<@planetmaker>good night from here, too
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16:44<frosch123>night
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18:07<Wolf01>'night
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18:34<Elukka>where do you get old nightlies?
18:36<Elukka>ah, there they are
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21:17<Elukka>huh.
21:17<Elukka>some change in openttd must have broken the ford model t in long vehicles since last time i played
21:17<Elukka>it has 0 kN tractive effort and moves at 2 kph :D
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---Logclosed Sun Jul 14 00:00:07 2013