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#openttd IRC Logs for 2013-07-18

---Logopened Thu Jul 18 00:00:15 2013
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01:33<SamanthaD>dryerlint: It's not really automatic. If you control-click one of the buttons it will set the starting days automatically, though
01:33<SamanthaD>dryerlint: If you want *real* separation you need to apply a custom patch
01:33<Supercheese>semi-automatic, really
01:33<SamanthaD>yeah
01:33<SamanthaD>The patch is out-of-date, though
01:33<SamanthaD>but I have an up to date version n_n
01:33<Supercheese>You need a federal tax stamp and a background check for fully automatic :P
01:34<SamanthaD>and I shall give it to anyone who asks for it :3
01:34<SamanthaD>I'm not posting it 'cuz I'm pretty amateur at all of this
01:34-!-KouDy [~koudy@188.75.190.58] has quit []
01:34<SamanthaD>also, it takes about three minutes to merge the patch into current
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01:36<SamanthaD>oops, looks like he went away
01:36<SamanthaD>oh well
01:37<SamanthaD>I'd say about 90% of people don't want to muck about with a compiler anyway
01:38<SamanthaD>I really hope they merge the automatic spacing into trunk though
01:38<SamanthaD>IMHO it's one of those must-have features
01:38*SamanthaD ponders modifying the patch a bit, though
01:38<SamanthaD>especially with cargodist it could cause some problems if it chooses to skip a station
01:38<SamanthaD>or a stop
01:39<SamanthaD>maybe a little modification so that it will never skip an order to refit the cargo type
01:44<SamanthaD>Oh! And it should do the checks about whether or not its running late while in a station and, if it's late enough to skip a station, dump any cargo destined to said station!
01:45<SamanthaD>now that we have cargodist in trunk, the next vehicle in the convoy will pick it up :3
01:45*Supercheese doesn't use cargodist
01:46<SamanthaD>right, but any patch made has to take it into consideration now that it's in trunk
01:46<SamanthaD>also
01:46<SamanthaD>HEATHEN! @.@
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02:02<montalvo>so i don't know if anyone else here has had this issue
02:02<montalvo>but if you're running openttd on mac os
02:02<montalvo>and it crashes when an AI starts
02:02<montalvo>compiling your own version of the game fixes it :)
02:07<SamanthaD>that's weird... it shouldn't
02:07<dryerlint>no I'm still here
02:07<montalvo>it's this bug, in particular
02:07<SamanthaD>dryerlint: would you like the patch?
02:07<dryerlint>and no, I'm not a programmer I'm a chef
02:07<montalvo>http://bugs.openttd.org/task/5606
02:07<SamanthaD>dryerlint: what kind of OS do you run?
02:07<dryerlint>W7 64
02:08<SamanthaD>dryerlint: Ah, no luck then... If you were running GNU/Linux 64bit I'd have just tossed you my patched binary :3
02:08<dryerlint>I would run Linux if I had time to learn Linux 3:<
02:09<Supercheese>Which patch?
02:09<SamanthaD>oh god... which patch did I apply >.<
02:09<dryerlint>I run the nightly
02:10<dryerlint>or atleast, the goon server is
02:10<Xaroth|Work>a goon, a goon
02:10<dryerlint>I know right
02:10<dryerlint>goons ruin everything
02:10<Xaroth|Work>shouldn't you be stinging testies ?
02:11<dryerlint>is that some kind of pub joke?
02:11<Xaroth|Work>eve joke more like
02:11<dryerlint>I don't play eve
02:11<Xaroth|Work>good :P
02:11<dryerlint>(and neither do most goons)
02:11<Xaroth|Work>most goons I come in contact with do :P
02:12<Xaroth|Work>but that might have to do with only seeing them in eve...
02:12<dryerlint>your logic is flawless sir
02:12<Xaroth|Work>it always has been
02:13<Xaroth|Work>and define 'train spacing'
02:15<SamanthaD>Xaroth|Work: Keep em from getting bunched up
02:15<Xaroth|Work>oh that's simple
02:15<Xaroth|Work>keep adding more trains
02:15<Xaroth|Work>until you can no more
02:15<SamanthaD>http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=33&t=46391&hilit=separation+automatic
02:15<Xaroth|Work>then they are always evenly spaced :P
02:15<dryerlint>the server admin knows the term
02:15<SamanthaD>that's the patch I'm using
02:15<SamanthaD>only, I had to make a couple of trivial changes to merge it into nightly
02:15<dryerlint>full timetable automation
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02:16<SamanthaD>Xaroth|Work: Yeah... but that's wasteful when there isn't that much to move
02:16<Xaroth|Work>true that
02:16<SamanthaD>Especially early in the game
02:16<Xaroth|Work>interesting patch
02:16<SamanthaD>I often end up with really long trunk lines but not enough money to run more than 5-6 trains on it :p
02:17<Xaroth|Work>http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?t=54332 is also interesting in that regard
02:18<SamanthaD>I tried Slim Timetables briefly but I found it didn't work as well
02:18<montalvo>i'm a goon too, hi
02:18<dryerlint>it's handy when you have 1000 tile long cargo dist passenger lines
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02:19<Xaroth|Work>@revision 25377
02:19<SamanthaD>dryerlint: I especially like automatic separation for my cargodist local lines to ensure that the express trains from out-of-town get serviced in a timely fashion
02:19<Xaroth|Work>meh
02:19<Xaroth|Work>silly DorpsGek
02:19<Xaroth|Work>(svn r25377) -Feature: timetable spreading of vehicles by Ctrl+Click when setting a start date
02:20<SamanthaD>Yeah, that's good and all but the patch I linked is better :3
02:20<Xaroth|Work>yeh, but r25377 is in trunk
02:20<SamanthaD>:p
02:20<Xaroth|Work>and as such, in nightly builds
02:20<Xaroth|Work>I mean
02:21<dryerlint>well let me try that
02:21<SamanthaD>Real men run experimentally patched betas ;)
02:22<Xaroth|Work>not if they are limited to playing on servers who run nightly builds ;)
02:22<SamanthaD>:p
02:23<Supercheese>Goons? In OTTD?
02:23<Supercheese>Zounds
02:23<SamanthaD>I'm pondering writing an automatic separation patch that adjusts separation by assigning speed limits to the vehicles that aren't behind schedule
02:24<SamanthaD>optionally, with the other option being "dump cargo for next station and skip it unless its an order to go to a depot in which case proceed as usual"
02:24<SamanthaD>the option to apply speed limits would probably make co-op players weep if it ever got merged into trunk and didn't have another option
02:25<montalvo>you can separate trains?!
02:25<dryerlint>facepalm
02:25<SamanthaD>montalvo: No, you can't split trains but you can alter the amount of distance between them
02:25<montalvo>ah, gotcha
02:26<SamanthaD>montalvo: we're talking about patches that make it so that vehicles in a convoy evenly space themselves out
02:26<montalvo>i see! that would be nifty
02:26<SamanthaD>it's a reality :3
02:26<montalvo>hooray!
02:26<SamanthaD>but only if you're brave
02:26<SamanthaD>there's half a dozen patches
02:26<SamanthaD>two of them relatively current
02:27<montalvo>i'm not very brave at all
02:27<SamanthaD>but they're both slightly problematic in that they can mess up your network
02:27<montalvo>and i would imagine there is a lot more i can do to make my transportation network more efficient before convoy spacing is important :)
02:27<dryerlint>no it there isn't, trust me we've tried all other avenues
02:27<dryerlint>this is the only way
02:27<SamanthaD>montalvo: sec, let me pastebin my .diff
02:28<montalvo>well, like, merging 5 haphazardly placed train stations around a city into one
02:28<@planetmaker>moin
02:28<montalvo>or learning how to use signals properly
02:28<Xaroth|Work>o/ pm
02:28<SamanthaD>montalvo: yeah, but that's kinda cheating ;)
02:28<montalvo>signals?
02:28<montalvo>or the station merging
02:28<dryerlint>signal are literally cheating
02:29<montalvo>i am so confused
02:29<@planetmaker>SamanthaD, montalvo you don't need be brave. Auto-separation for time-tabled vehicles is in trunk
02:29<Xaroth|Work>pm: i informed them thusly
02:29<@planetmaker>sorry. Just got up :-) Hi Xaroth
02:29<Xaroth|Work>hiya
02:30<SamanthaD>planetmaker: Yeah, but AFAIK trunk won't fix separation once the vehicles are moving
02:30<Supercheese>It's semi-auto-separation
02:32<SamanthaD>http://pastebin.com/U2YbvZp5
02:32<SamanthaD>there you go!
02:32<SamanthaD>http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=33&t=46391
02:32<dryerlint>yeah apparently we need to apply for a tax stamp to go full auto
02:32<SamanthaD>the pastebin contains an updated patch
02:32<SamanthaD>for the patch in the forum link I just linked
02:33<SamanthaD>it patches to r25615
02:34<SamanthaD>n_n
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02:46<andythenorth>hmm
02:46<Supercheese>Salve, andy
02:46<andythenorth>non-availability of a vehicle's default cargo can have side effects (e.g. HEQS capacity issue)
02:46<andythenorth>I am looking at this in FISH 2
02:47<Supercheese>Well, you can match the default cargo to one that's consistently available in all FIRS economies
02:47<andythenorth>that assumes FIRS
02:47<Supercheese>Well, you control FIRS
02:47<Supercheese>:P
02:48<Supercheese>But yes, a reasonable attempt to include other cargo sets is desirable
02:49<Supercheese>cargotable { CORE, ...
02:49<Supercheese>what's CORE?
02:49<V453000>copper ore
02:49<Supercheese>righto
02:50<Supercheese>Is there a way to do a check for cargo availability, and set the default_cargo_type based on the results of that check?
02:50*Supercheese wikis
02:51<V453000>what you mean is that if a vehicle has default cargo e.g. coal, it will bork in tropic? That sounds weird? :D
02:51<andythenorth>for purchase menu, I could provide a switch that cascades a range of cargos
02:51<Supercheese>http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/5930
02:52<andythenorth>I don't know if I can do that when vehicle is built though
02:52<andythenorth>in fact, not sure I can do it for purchase either
02:52<V453000>hm
02:52<V453000>is that related to trains as well?
02:52<andythenorth>player controls cargo refit, not newgrf
02:53<Supercheese>"By default, passenger capacity is 4x, and mail/goods capacity 2x larger than capacity for other cargoes. The capacity set here is used for the default (i.e. first refittable) cargo. Use the cargo_capacity callback to avoid this effect. "
02:53<Supercheese>Hmmm
02:53<Supercheese>callback?
02:53<Supercheese>FISH seems to use that
02:54<@planetmaker>Supercheese, yes, you can check for available cargos and set default accordingly
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02:55<@planetmaker>if cargo_available("CORE") { item (FEAT_XXX, myveh) { property { default_cargo_type: CORE; } } }
02:56<Supercheese>I don't see any documentaiton on cargo_available
02:56<andythenorth>V453000: http://newgrf-specs.tt-wiki.net/wiki/VehicleRefitting
02:56<@planetmaker>I probably used the wrong name there... just looking
02:57<@planetmaker> cargotype_available(cargotype)
02:57<andythenorth>planetmaker: that's action 6 or so?
02:57<@planetmaker>http://newgrf-specs.tt-wiki.net/wiki/NML:Builtin_functions
02:57<@planetmaker>andythenorth, yes
02:57<andythenorth>that will work
02:57<Supercheese>There we go :)
02:57<andythenorth>I was thinking of switches
02:57<@planetmaker>that won't work that way
02:57<@planetmaker>for *default* cargo type
02:57<andythenorth>no
02:57<andythenorth>action 6 is a good idea
02:58<@planetmaker>at least I don't think :-)
02:58<Supercheese>pm's pseudocode is what I was thinking of
02:58<andythenorth>I can implement that
02:58<andythenorth>I can fix capacity independently
02:58<andythenorth>but I want to also provide a cascade of sensible default cargos
02:58<@planetmaker>yeah, that's a totally different thing
02:59<Supercheese>Seems like a bunch of if-thens
02:59<@planetmaker>yes
02:59<andythenorth>it's weird that a ship that defaults to coal with one newgrf gets livestock or whatever in another
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02:59<andythenorth>I can improve that
02:59<andythenorth>at least for common cases
03:00<@planetmaker>there's not too many cases you need to check anyway. Default, some FIRS economies. Some ECS vectors. PBI. Done
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03:02<andythenorth>yup
03:02<andythenorth>COAL, IORE, CORE etc
03:03<andythenorth>some kind of express cargos cascade
03:03<andythenorth>GOOD, FOOD, ENSP or such
03:03<andythenorth>done
03:03<@planetmaker>^
03:04*andythenorth -> work
03:04<andythenorth>bye
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03:08<SamanthaD>ENSP?!
03:08<Supercheese>Engineering Supplies
03:08<SamanthaD>ah!
03:09<Supercheese>cargo labels can be weird sometimes :P
03:09<@planetmaker>JAVA ftw!
03:09<Supercheese>...but then you get BEER
03:09<Supercheese>and JAVA yeah
03:09<@planetmaker>what a lovely discussion we had about when deciding on that label :-D
03:09<SamanthaD>I just realized that the OpenGFX+ Industries NewGRF doesn't include Toyland industry chains...
03:09<SamanthaD>damn...
03:10<Supercheese>doesn't it?
03:10<Supercheese>Hmm
03:10<SamanthaD>I don't think it does...
03:10<@planetmaker>no(t) yet
03:11<SamanthaD>yup
03:11<SamanthaD>for some perverse reason I *really* want to run a fizzy drink train in Temperate
03:11<Supercheese>Ooooooh yeeaaaaah.... oh wait, that's Kool-Aid
03:11<Supercheese>close enough :P
03:12<SamanthaD>heh
03:12<@planetmaker>not sure we can actually fit thos cargos in the scheme still, whether there are enough cargo slots left
03:12<SamanthaD>I can still violate every known food safety law by refitting my rolling stock from crude oil to drinks and back ;)
03:12<@planetmaker>32 cargos is max kinda
03:12<SamanthaD>patch!
03:13<Supercheese>Autorefit is the bane of every health inspector
03:13<@planetmaker>SamanthaD, opengfx+trains allows that ;-) But it costs you the clensing
03:13<@planetmaker>health inspectors included in price tag :D
03:13<@planetmaker>(the bribing, of course)
03:13<Supercheese>Take airplane, autorefit to gasoline, autorefit to fish, autorefit to passengers, autorefit to food..
03:13<Supercheese>and so on
03:13<SamanthaD>haha!
03:14<Supercheese>I often do things like that just for the laughs
03:14<@planetmaker>that's the plane to decide :-) It could disallow autorefit between that different kind of cargos
03:14<Supercheese>but equally often it's useful
03:14<Supercheese>airplane was just an example
03:14<SamanthaD>yeah... but with airplanes you can posit that they're not carrying the food and what have you actually in the storage tanks
03:14<SamanthaD>but like... fuel bottles or something
03:14<SamanthaD>and that's no fun
03:14<Supercheese>CHIPS does show barrels of fuel
03:14<Supercheese>seems plausible
03:14<SamanthaD>mmhm
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03:59<dryerlint>would it be hard to mod the game to stay the same year forever
03:59<dryerlint>let's pretend I've got super spergs and love steam trains
03:59<Supercheese>use the date cheatr
03:59<Supercheese>cheat*
04:00<dryerlint>but for multiplayer
04:00<Supercheese>I think that would require a patch
04:00<SamanthaD>dryerlint: Also maybe consider setting "vehicles never expire" option
04:00<Supercheese>or newgrf
04:01<Supercheese>which would just provide steam engines :P
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04:01<SamanthaD>Supercheese: You mean like... one that contained a DeLorian or something?
04:01<Supercheese>(or equivalently, disable all other engines)
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04:02<dryerlint>I guess I'm the only one who loves 1960
04:02<SamanthaD>dryerlint: 1960?! I play most of my games around 1900-1920
04:02<dryerlint>:/
04:03<Xaroth|Work>you mean www.youtube.com/watch?v=9f06QZCVUHg ?
04:03<SamanthaD>haha
04:04<@planetmaker>hm, Xaroth ?
04:05<@planetmaker>dryerlint, start in the desired time and indeed use "vehicles never expire"
04:05<@planetmaker>allows you to use those vehicles forever
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04:05<Xaroth|Work>forever!
04:05<SamanthaD>the only problem with that is that their reliability might tank so by the time you're at year 2000 the trains have 30% reliability :p
04:05<SamanthaD>so you might want to also disable breakdowns completely
04:06<dryerlint>lol, who plays with breakdowns?
04:06<SamanthaD>I do!
04:07<dryerlint>um, you're scaring me, can you please step back before I blow this whistle
04:07<SamanthaD>breakdowns are fun :3
04:08*dryerlint blows whistle
04:08<dryerlint>RAPE
04:09<SamanthaD>I've been working on designing fault tolerant trunk lines
04:09<SamanthaD>using path signals and a tonne of criss-crossy tracks
04:09<SamanthaD>hardly realistic though :p
04:09<Xaroth|Work>grinding your game to a complete stop by the time you hit 2000+ trains :p
04:10<SamanthaD>ah yeah... I never end up with that many trains
04:10<SamanthaD>I tend to max out around 50-100
04:10<SamanthaD>I also tend to only play on maximum 128x128 maps
04:10<Xaroth|Work>:|
04:11<SamanthaD>I'm obsessive/compulsive so I get very anxious if I don't address EVERY industry/town/ect on the map
04:11<SamanthaD>and anything much bigger than 128^2...
04:11<Supercheese>That can be done easily enough on a 256x256 map
04:11<SamanthaD>my head melts
04:11<Supercheese>depending on town/industry settings
04:12<SamanthaD>yeah... but I also get weird about giving each town a bus system and reworking their streets
04:12<SamanthaD>maybe I'll try 256^2 at some point
04:12<Supercheese>I just tell all towns to use 3x3 grid
04:12<Supercheese>usually prevents road insanity
04:12<SamanthaD>but my favorite size is either 128^2 with a lot of water or 64x1024
04:13<SamanthaD>I often do 3x3
04:13<SamanthaD>but I also like "better roads"
04:13<SamanthaD>"original roads" though... I have no clue why that's the default
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04:13<@planetmaker>I most often play 512² - but also loads of water
04:13<@planetmaker>like 50%
04:13<SamanthaD>yeah
04:13<SamanthaD>obscene amounts of water makes huge maps manageable
04:14<@planetmaker>64² is an actual challange. Very hard to master
04:14<SamanthaD>I absolutely love 64x64
04:15<SamanthaD>set industries to minimal and I'm *STILL* building stations that service three or four industries :p
04:16<SamanthaD>with 64x64 road vehicles really are king
04:16<SamanthaD>especially once they start hitting 80km/h
04:16<SamanthaD>but usually I play a "challenge" game where I don't let myself use road vehicles except as feeders to my trains
04:17<SamanthaD>or if the run is less than five squares or something like that
04:26<Supercheese>good night
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04:28<Eddi|zuHause><SamanthaD> Oh! And it should do the checks about whether or not its running late while in a station and, if it's late enough to skip a station, dump any cargo destined to said station! <-- so if your timetable always fucks up at the same station, that next station is never serviced?
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04:34<@planetmaker>Eddi|zuHause, totally realistic ;-)
04:35<@planetmaker>http://www.spiegel.de/reise/deutschland/ice-haelt-schon-wieder-nicht-was-hat-die-bahn-bloss-gegen-wolfsburg-a-789584.html
04:35<Eddi|zuHause>pfft :p
04:35<Eddi|zuHause>plus, why do you think skipping a station saves time?
04:35<@planetmaker>doesn't?
04:36<Eddi|zuHause>90% of all timetables are A<->B. 9% of all timetables, you have to go past the skipped station anyway
04:37<@planetmaker>yes. you save the time of stopping and (un)loading. In RL like maybe 5 minutes, maybe 10?
04:37<Eddi|zuHause>so at best you'd save the loading/unloading step, which is like 4 days
04:38<@planetmaker>yes... I just setup a time table in OpenTTD... was like 6 to 7 days before it worked out
04:38<@planetmaker>but was for a 600-capacity pax plane
04:38<Eddi|zuHause>planetmaker: long distance trains typically stop for 2 minutes (plus acceleration/deceleration)
04:39<@planetmaker>yeah. which is 5 minutes maybe :-)
04:40<Eddi|zuHause>planetmaker: and many stations aren't built for fast through-traffic anyway, so you'd have to decelerate/accelerate a bit anyway
04:41<Eddi|zuHause>planetmaker: "our train to frankfurt is now 10 minutes delayed. travellers for fulda please exit in erfurt and take the next train in an hour. please excuse the inconvenience and sänk ju for trävelling wis deutsche bahn"
04:43<Xaroth|Work>hehe
04:43<@planetmaker>exactly that, Eddi|zuHause :-)
04:44<roboboy>I have had that sort of situation except my train was indefinately delayed
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04:52<SamanthaD>well... it would be an option I suppose
04:52<SamanthaD>what I could see it really useful for is road vehicles that can take shortcuts
04:53<SamanthaD>or local trains
04:53<SamanthaD>I make a lot of train networks where there might only be 10-15 tiles between stations
04:53<SamanthaD>so yeah, skipping a station or two WOULD make a huge difference
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05:09<SamanthaD>anyway... it's bedtime for me
05:10<SamanthaD>see you lot later!
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05:53<Skasi>I just started OpenTTD for the first time in quite a long while. Where do I change music- and sound volumes?
05:59<peter1139>only in game unfortunately
06:05<Eddi|zuHause>Skasi: if you start a game, there's a jukebox icon on the right of the toolbar
06:06<Skasi>interesting, thanks!
06:19<dihedral>greetings
06:23<Xaroth|Work>o/ dih
06:27<oskari89>2cc trainset Devs: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/V150_%28train%29
06:27<oskari89>That could be nice addition :)
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06:29<Eddi|zuHause>if i'd have to say anything in that set, i wouldn't include such a thing
06:30<Eddi|zuHause>after all, it was never in "real" service
06:35<dihedral>hello Xaroth|Work :-)
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09:19<@Belugas>hello
09:23<Xaroth|Work>o/
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09:53<@Alberth>o/
09:53<Xaroth|Work>o/
10:04<@Belugas>another night spent on playing some police...
10:05<@Belugas>i learned how to play "half-harmonics"
10:05<@Belugas>quite a cool technic, in fact
10:06<@Belugas>only to be heard in "i can't stand losing you", in the bridge
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10:10<peter1139>love that tune
10:10<@Belugas>:D
10:11<@Belugas>yeah! me too
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10:18<@Belugas>an easy one play, honestly
10:19<@Belugas>only trick (apart the harmonics) is the picking
10:29<peter1139>@seen dihedral
10:29<@DorpsGek>peter1139: dihedral was last seen in #openttd 3 hours, 53 minutes, and 51 seconds ago: <dihedral> hello Xaroth|Work :-)
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13:39<dihedral>peter1139, here
13:40<peter1139>the solution was simple, just don't have a shared key on the vpn setup :p
13:40<dihedral>interesting
13:41<dihedral>i thought the setup of ipsec asked for a shared key
13:41<peter1139>it does, but you can leave it blank, in which case you can't connect
13:41<dihedral>i am having my issues setting up ipsec on a juniper srx
13:41<peter1139>but you can still connect with rsa keys which bypasses the sharead key part
13:41<dihedral>interesting
13:41<dihedral>thanks for the feedback
13:41<peter1139>*shared
13:42<dihedral>i'll try to memorize it until i need it myself again :-D
13:42<peter1139>hehe
13:42<dihedral>you do not happen to know how to configure ipsec vpn on juniper srx, do you?
13:45<@DorpsGek>Commit by translators :: r25618 trunk/src/lang/polish.txt (2013-07-18 17:45:09 UTC)
13:45<@DorpsGek>-Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
13:45<@DorpsGek>polish - 3 changes by p0358
13:47<peter1139>no, not touched juniper
13:48<dihedral>shame :-)
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14:02<Wolf01>hi o/
14:02<@Alberth>o/
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15:04<andythenorth>o/
15:04<Xaroth|Work>o/
15:08<Zuu>Hello
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15:42<andythenorth>quiet eh?
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15:43<@Alberth>yeah, it is
15:43<pjpe>did the infrastructure guy ever consider going for trunk inclusion like fonso did with cargodist
15:44*andythenorth is learning git
15:45<andythenorth>working with git and hg in different shells (different projects) is interesting
15:45<andythenorth>my fingers get confused a lot
15:45<andythenorth>also one of the projects has a build environment wrapper, managed by svn
15:45-!-Pol [~quassel@h220216.upc-h.chello.nl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
15:45<andythenorth>what larks
15:45<andythenorth>are we making anything then?
15:45<TWerkhoven>sounds fun
15:45<Zuu>indeed. Git makes me as hg user confused
15:45<pjpe>isn't there an hg frontend for git
15:46<Zuu>I always forget that I need to stage my changes before I can commit them or pass an extra flag in order to commit all changed files.
15:46<Zuu>And each time I need to make a 'hg rollback' I need to use google to figure out what to type.
15:49<Xaroth|Work>the github client is fucking awesome
15:51-!-Devroush367 [~dennis@dD5765BAC.access.telenet.be] has joined #openttd
15:55<@Alberth>Xaroth|Work: that's cheating :p
15:55<@Alberth>pjpe: what infrastrucure are you talking about?
15:55<Xaroth|Work>Alberth: so? :P
15:55<Xaroth|Work>I call it using the right tools
15:56<pjpe>oh
15:56<pjpe>infrastructure sharing
15:56<pjpe>missed a word
15:56<@Alberth>it's not scriptable
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15:57<@Alberth>pjpe: I don't think he ever tried, which is not surprising given the conceptual flaws of the solution.
15:57<Eddi|zuHause>i agree, if you're used to svn/hg, then git is totally unintuitive
15:58<Eddi|zuHause>i'm sure git in itself is very logical and consistent. but for something i might need twice a year, it requires too much reading of manuals
15:58<+glx>Eddi|zuHause: github client helps a lot ;)
15:59<Xaroth|Work>with the github client, hg is like trying to produce a working tar command first try.
15:59<@Alberth>I stopped considering using it when I read I had to pack the repo manually
15:59<Xaroth|Work>as in: http://xkcd.com/1168/
16:00<@Alberth>I saw that, and failed to see the problem :p
16:00<+glx>tar is not hard
16:00<Xaroth|Work>less hard than hg :P
16:00<@Alberth>pretty much like zip and jar
16:00<@Alberth>and arj
16:01<+glx>oh Alberth is old ;)
16:01<@Rubidium>I'd say --help
16:01<@Alberth>BSD tar? I would not bet on it :)
16:02<frosch123>i only ever used tar with files, never with tapes
16:02<+glx>I'm used to tar x[zj]f
16:02<+glx>the basic usage
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16:05<Eddi|zuHause>yeah, i also thought i knew tar, until i recently had to decompress a .tar.xz :p
16:05<@Rubidium>tar -xf <filename>
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16:06<Eddi|zuHause>(for reference, it's 'J')
16:06<andythenorth>what's the deal with infrastructure sharing? Is it good?
16:06<andythenorth>I don't get it personally
16:07<Eddi|zuHause>i primarily want to separate city-wide and map-wide services, while keeping the cargodist networks joined
16:07<andythenorth>so you have two companies in a single player game?
16:07<pjpe>it's also nice on servers where everyone likes having their own company so you can still kinda play together
16:07<andythenorth>I see
16:07<Eddi|zuHause>it's easier in a "local" multiplayer game
16:07<andythenorth>well both sound valid
16:07<andythenorth>next topic? :P
16:07<Eddi|zuHause>because then you have the "switch company" button
16:08<pjpe>it's like the next biggest patch after cargodist it feels like
16:08<Eddi|zuHause>although the company window needs a "minimal" version similar to the finance window
16:08<Eddi|zuHause>pjpe: i'd expect "more height levels" to be the next big patch to make it, but surprises can happen
16:08<pjpe>unless those russian genies manage to get the underground patch to a point where it's actually worth using
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16:09<Eddi|zuHause>i have not tried it, but the things i've heard or seen made it sound very discouraging
16:14<frosch123>night
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16:17<pjpe>why do paradox games always give an option to me for weird resolutions like 1344x1008
16:17<pjpe>does someone really have a monitor with that resolution
16:17<pjpe>this isn't even a paradox developed game come to think of it
16:17<Dr_Tan>somebody in there beta squad?
16:17<@Alberth>Eddi|zuHause: "j" is a GNU extension, BSD does xz -d foo.tar.xz | tar xf -
16:18<Eddi|zuHause>Alberth: 'J' != 'j', though
16:18<Eddi|zuHause>Alberth: and i've never really used any non-GNU tools
16:18<@Alberth>tar is running out of free letters, just like ls :)
16:19<Eddi|zuHause>pjpe: generally, games list the resolutions your display driver reports
16:19-!-LordAro [~LordAro@host81-148-242-246.range81-148.btcentralplus.com] has joined #openttd
16:19<@Alberth>Eddi|zuHause: for an off-world experience I recommend installing a BSD, OpenBSD if you want the most exotic experience :p
16:20*LordAro waves
16:20<@Alberth>it makes you very much aware of how friendly linux is :)
16:20<Eddi|zuHause>pjpe: so if both your monitor and your graphics card agree that this is a valid resolution...
16:20<@Alberth>hi LordAro
16:20<Eddi|zuHause>Alberth: probably not gonna happen :p
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16:21<@Alberth>partitions? we don't have those! :)
16:22<andythenorth>try a jail
16:23<andythenorth>or not
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16:51<Wolf01>'night all
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17:27<andythenorth>awesome
17:27<andythenorth>FIRS docs templates are easily reused for other sets :)
17:27<andythenorth>frameworky-ness ftw
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17:30<@Alberth>\o/ you found the right combination!
17:31<pjpe>game script are fully compatible with multiplayer right
17:32<@Alberth>right
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17:52<pjpe>why is the automatic separation or whatever patches for the timetables not in trunk
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17:54<Xaroth|Work>patches have to hold to high standards before even being considered getting into trunk
17:55<pjpe>yeah but i'm asking for someone else
17:55<pjpe>if there's some specific issue
17:55<LordAro>i thought auto separation is in trunk
17:55<Xaroth|Work>I'm pretty sure that's between the patch creator and a developer
17:56<Xaroth|Work>if said patch developer bothered to ask, that is
17:57<LordAro>am i missing something? http://hg.openttd.org/openttd/trunk.hg/rev/006dfecf1559
17:57<Xaroth|Work>different patch, LordAro
17:57<LordAro>ok :)
17:57<pjpe>that only works once doesn't it
17:58<pjpe>and is that even documented anywhere
17:58*andythenorth -> bed
17:58<andythenorth>bye
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17:59<LordAro>night all
18:01<Zuu>pjpe: it is documented in the tooltip of the button that you ctrl+click.
18:02<Zuu>As long as the timetable has enough slack it is a setup onece and forget separation. Assuming you don't upgrade the vehicles and that congestion don't get worse over time.
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---Logclosed Fri Jul 19 00:00:15 2013