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#openttd IRC Logs for 2013-07-23

---Logopened Tue Jul 23 00:00:08 2013
---Daychanged Tue Jul 23 2013
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00:27<V453000>I believe NUTS has massively shuffled around flax about pax/cargo trains for AI
00:27<V453000>so I wouldnt expect AIs to have too much success :P
00:28<V453000>hm how did I typo x there
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01:11<Supercheese>Ugh, Blender
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01:12<Supercheese>How do you even select things in Blender?
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01:14<Supercheese>too darn complex
01:14<Supercheese>guess I have to RTFM
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01:17<Supercheese>although it's entirely beyond me why clicking something doesn't select it
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01:21<dihedral>good morning
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01:22<Supercheese>and now Blender crashed when trying to export to another file format
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01:27<Supercheese>Blender is horrible to work with compared with 99% of other programs I have used
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01:41<Supercheese>So, I'm making a 3D model of the OpenTTD logo
01:41<Supercheese>The dollar sign in the center appears to be more of a cutaway than an extrusion, no?
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03:00<Supercheese>3D model complete
03:01<Supercheese>Now I can print it on my 3D printer :D
03:01<Supercheese>Whoops, non-manifold geometry
03:02*dihedral checks the channel's toppic for wards such as 'twitter'
03:02<dihedral>... *words
03:03<Supercheese>Twitter could easily be a ward
03:04<Supercheese>It may warn, "Attention: avoid the following unless absolutely necessary" :P
03:05<@planetmaker>dihedral, there is an account... but no-one maintains it ;-)
03:05<@planetmaker>good morning also
03:08<andythenorth>au revoir
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03:08<dihedral>i was more hinting towards someone using the channel like twitter :-P
03:11<Supercheese>I'm planning on printing the 3D model of the OpenTTD logo I just made, surely that's on-topic
03:12<peter1139>when is this channel ever on topic?
03:12<Supercheese>That would be an interesting statistic
03:13<peter1139>well it would be a statistic anyway
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04:15<Aristide>Hi everybody :)
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05:27<Eddi|zuHause>hm, i dont understand this... the track type code looks correct, but when NuTracks is not used, the narrow gauge vehicles go on standard and electric rails, and the normal vehicles go on electric rails only. electric vehicles are not available :/
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05:28<@planetmaker>link to code?
05:30<Eddi|zuHause>maybe it's partial-compilation related :(
05:30<Eddi|zuHause>i.e. does nml shuffle around IDs of the railtype table, if values are not used?
05:31<@planetmaker>omg! how many railtypes do you have?
05:31<@planetmaker>it might actually be that it's too many... you might want to define only 16 at most maybe?
05:32<Eddi|zuHause>i'd expect 256 to be the limit
05:33<Eddi|zuHause>i could split it in 3 separate tables, loading only the one matching the trackset
05:33<@planetmaker>a game can only provide 16 tracks at a time
05:33<@planetmaker>you define more than 16 unique labels
05:33<Eddi|zuHause>but this is the railtype translation table, not the railtype definition table
05:34<@planetmaker>yes, I know
05:34<Eddi|zuHause>a cargo translation table can also have more than 32 entries
05:34<@planetmaker>let's call it "define" :-)
05:34<Eddi|zuHause>this is definitely not the reason...
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05:35<@planetmaker> tracktype_speedVNn : [NGRL],
05:35<@planetmaker> <-- these go on unexpected rail, yes?
05:36<Eddi|zuHause>no, tracktype_default(stuff)
05:36<Eddi|zuHause>hold on, i'm trying my "partial compilation" theory
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05:54<Eddi|zuHause>hm, that did not solve anything :(
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06:13<@Alberth>theory broken?
06:14<Eddi|zuHause>trying to read nmlc's NFO output now :/
06:14<Eddi|zuHause>need to understand action6 :p
06:18<@Alberth>very scary action :)
06:20<@Alberth>I can see why it was added, but I have my doubts whether it is actually the right solution
06:20<Eddi|zuHause> <-- this is the part that defines the railtype (i think in param[103] (0x67))
06:21<Eddi|zuHause>the values 3, 10 and 45 seem right. not sure what it assigns 0 and 9 for
06:22<Eddi|zuHause>how do i find out ingame whether that's what that actually ended up?
06:24<@Alberth>the newgrf inspection thingie?
06:24<Eddi|zuHause>that doesn't really show anything useful
06:24<Eddi|zuHause>i've attached a gdb now. what variables to check?
06:26*Alberth is clueless
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06:51<Eddi|zuHause>now what to read out of that:
06:53<peter1139>railtype.m_val = 0
06:53<Eddi|zuHause>that's obviously wrong
06:54<Eddi|zuHause>but this is already the translated value, it doesn't represent my translation table entries anyway
06:55<peter1139>debuggers suck
06:55<peter1139>add some printfs where the mapping is done :p
07:04<Eddi|zuHause>how do i set a breakpoint if i only have a text editor?
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07:14<@Alberth>why do you need a break point? just print relevant values
07:15<@Alberth>exit(1); will work :p
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07:57<Eddi|zuHause>something is definitely fishy here...
07:57<Eddi|zuHause>compare with
07:58<Eddi|zuHause>this i meant
07:59<Eddi|zuHause>now, is this an nml bug?
08:07<Eddi|zuHause> <-- NFO code for the railtype translation table
08:08<Eddi|zuHause>i think the action 6 there is wrong
08:09<Eddi|zuHause>"69 04 FF \wx0008" overwrites the "RAIL", when it actually wanted to overwrite the first "\00\00\00\00"
08:09<Eddi|zuHause>so nml is recording the wrong offsets, if some railtype entries are fixed, while others are variable
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08:25<Eddi|zuHause>i think i found the problem. testing
08:32<Eddi|zuHause>that looks way better now:
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08:36<Eddi|zuHause>anyone with nml commit rights around, or should i file a report?
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08:42<peter1139>it's magic
08:42<Eddi|zuHause>or it's sufficiently advanced technology :p
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08:51<Eddi|zuHause>krinn: can you run your test again with ? i now implemented the "pulls only passengers" flag
08:59<krinn>lol lucky you i just get back here
08:59<krinn>downloading it
09:00<@Alberth>Eddi|zuHause: pushed, thanks
09:00<krinn>wow file took like 4M :)
09:00<krinn>big changes
09:01<Eddi|zuHause>well it does have over 1000 vehicles in it :)
09:01<Eddi|zuHause>(technically more like 3000)
09:02<krinn>you want the low money or high money versio ?
09:02<Eddi|zuHause>both would be best
09:02<krinn>industry job ?
09:02<Eddi|zuHause>as many different stuff as you like :)
09:03<Eddi|zuHause>also a long-term test how the AI performs after a few years would be nice
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09:04<krinn>lol like if the AI perform nice with classic one :)
09:04<krinn>the ai isn't ready you know
09:04<krinn>i can sent you the "current" one if you want test yourself
09:04<Eddi|zuHause>probably not.
09:07<krinn>dbg: [script] [1] [I] cCarrier-> New #23 Train 1(ES 9 ff. (K.P.St.E., E 01)) created with ES 9 ff. (K.P.St.E., E 01)
09:07<krinn>dbg: [script] [1] [I] Unknown-> Setting Passenger car (compartment car, four-axle) refit costs to 0 when handling PASS
09:08<krinn>redoing with industry
09:08<Eddi|zuHause>that's the cheap or the expensive run?
09:09<krinn>expensive one
09:09<Eddi|zuHause>that should be ok
09:09<Eddi|zuHause>ES 9-19 is a series of express electric engines
09:10<krinn>dbg: [script] [1] [I] cCarrier-> New #23 Train 1(S 3/6 a-c (K.Bay.Sts.B., 18⁴)) created with S 3/6 a-c (K.Bay.Sts.B., 18⁴)
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09:10<krinn>you want all wagons it has test to add them with it and the picked choice ?
09:11<krinn>dbg: [script] [1] [I] Unknown-> Setting Stake car (German Wagon Association series A4) refit costs to 188 when handling WOOD
09:11<krinn>dbg: [script] [1] [I] Unknown-> Grabbing vehicle properties for Open wagon (state railway series)
09:11<krinn>dbg: [script] [1] [I] Unknown-> Setting Boxcar (state railway series) refit costs to 188 when handling WOOD
09:12<krinn>dbg: [script] [1] [I] Unknown-> Setting Boxcar (German Wagon Association series A2) refit costs to 188 when handling WOOD
09:12<krinn>dbg: [script] [1] [I] Unknown-> Setting Open wagon (German Wagon Association series A10) refit costs to 188 when handling WOOD
09:12<krinn>dbg: [script] [1] [I] Unknown-> Setting Wood car (state railway series) refit costs to 188 when handling WOOD
09:12<krinn>dbg: [script] [1] [I] Unknown-> Setting Wood car (German Wagon Association series A5) refit costs to 188 when handling WOOD
09:12<Eddi|zuHause>hm, this is with ignoring the "pulls only passengers" flag?
09:12<krinn>and it has keep this one (terman A 5)
09:13<Eddi|zuHause>krinn: A5 is "correct", because it's a dedicated wood wagon
09:15<krinn>i dont remember the wagon choice heuristic, but it should be a more basic one
09:16<krinn>:) i see it : compatible with engine + isawagon+canrefittocargo and finally capacity first
09:16<krinn>as i don't handle wagon speed
09:23<Eddi|zuHause>how do you handle refittable engines?
09:24<krinn>the same way as wagon, except refit failure won't remove the engine this time (as refit failure on engine appears because of high cost to refit and it's not really a problem like it would with a wagon)
09:24<krinn>if it can, it try refit it, if it fail, it still use it
09:25<krinn>dbg: [script] [1] [I] Unknown-> Setting ES 9 ff. (K.P.St.E., E 01) refit costs to 0 when handling COAL
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10:31<krinn>how can i list gs:ai lib install or check by openttd? (like openttd check and list ai when starting in the console)
10:32<Eddi|zuHause>debug_level something?
10:32<krinn>i have it set
10:33<krinn>-d script=5
10:33<krinn>but it only output ai/gs not lib
10:33<Eddi|zuHause>then i don't know
10:33*krinn was sure Eddi|zuHause will say that
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13:01<krinn>hi Alberth
13:06<LordAro>hai Alberth
13:06<@Alberth>hi hi
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13:11<@Alberth>hi uuZ
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13:48<@Alberth>evenink Wolf01
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13:56<Eddi|zuHause>what ever happened to the newgrf random parameter idea?
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13:57<@Alberth>it was lost in the suggestions forum? :)
13:58<Eddi|zuHause>... i have a patch for that :)
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14:03<Eddi|zuHause>i know it's bad if you laugh about your own jokes, but does that apply to jokes you don't remember making? :p
14:03<Eddi|zuHause>[Montag, 25. Februar 2013] [02:33:33] <[1]Karan> zuHause do you know some chat rooms?
14:03<Eddi|zuHause>[Montag, 25. Februar 2013] [02:34:06] <Eddi|zuHause> like, have i met any?
14:04<^Spike^>..... :)
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14:06<xDraKx>Please can someone help me with multiplayer settings?
14:07<xDraKx>I set the ports TCP and UDP on firewall 3979 and 3978
14:07<xDraKx>allow game of firewall to
14:07<@DorpsGek>Zuu: OpenTTD uses TCP and UDP port 3979 for server <-> client communication, UDP port 3978 for masterserver (advertise) communication (outbound), and TCP port 3978 for content service, a.k.a. BaNaNaS (outbound)
14:07<krinn>Eddi|zuHause, what are you doing, reading a feb log :)
14:08<Eddi|zuHause>yes. trying to read up on when i posted the random patch
14:08<Eddi|zuHause>what the actual discussion was :)
14:08<xDraKx>but the game dont apeear in online servers list
14:08<Zuu>xDraKx: do you have a router?
14:08<Zuu>If so, you need to set up port forwarding.
14:09<Zuu>Just opening them on your local firewall is not enough.
14:09<xDraKx>other thing
14:09<xDraKx>i need to reset my modem after do this port forwarding?
14:10<@Alberth>depends on the modem
14:10<xDraKx>i can maintain other ip with dmz?
14:10<Zuu>You can put your local computer in dmz, but it is better to just fortward the ports used by OpenTTD.
14:11<Zuu>DMZ basically opens all ports and forward them to your computer disabling the firewall at the router.
14:11<krinn>I don't remember to create a new ai i must ask someone or i can do it myself on the devzone ?
14:11<Eddi|zuHause>setting up a DMZ is only useful if your local (desk) computer and the one that runs the (OpenTTD) server are different from each other...
14:12<@Alberth>krinn: do you want to use an existing project or make a new one?
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14:12<Zuu>krinn: I don't remember either and have currently difficulties to test that.
14:12<krinn>new one
14:12<Eddi|zuHause>krinn: afair you can start new projects of your own if you're already a manager of an existing project
14:12<Eddi|zuHause>but i have no clue what to do
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14:13<krinn>thanks alberth
14:13<__ln__>i think that got truncated
14:13<^Spike^>... and we never setup a short url for that?
14:13<@Alberth> <-- the link just above "examples" :)
14:13<@Rubidium>you should, as this isn't even a complete URI
14:13<^Spike^>Rubidium just amazes me... that ppl never though about a short url for that :)
14:14<xDraKx>i have a power box here i set dmz ip for ps3 and a need to set other dhcp ip for my pc?
14:14<^Spike^>could i get the complete url in some form/manner? (been busy in nginx confs anyway... and what can i break ;))
14:14<Eddi|zuHause>famous last words :)
14:15<^Spike^>then adding: I do this for a job won't help either? :)
14:15<@Alberth> like this?
14:15<Zuu>^Spike^: Follow Alberth's link and there is a link on that page with the full URL
14:15<^Spike^>ffs..... and nobody... really though about a short link./... :)
14:16<krinn>it's not like anyone does a new project query every 2s ^Spike^
14:16<@Alberth> :)
14:16<^Spike^>was thinking about that... as no-one should call his project that way ;)
14:17<@Alberth>make one, and hide it :)
14:17<Eddi|zuHause>just make this a project, and everyone who wants one makes a ticket there?
14:17<Zuu>As far as I can see, projects are in /project/*
14:17<@Alberth>afaik it is a project
14:17<^Spike^>damn as i said... famous last words... broke it! :D
14:18<^Spike^>ha... perfect... ask_new_project ;)
14:18<^Spike^>much better short url more irc friendly :D
14:19<^Spike^> ! :)
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14:19<^Spike^>redirects ftw ;)
14:20<^Spike^>krinn true... but the url is damn long... and can be made so much easier :)
14:20<Eddi|zuHause>maybe that sentence should end with a ":"?
14:20<^Spike^>and for me it was ehm... 2 mins work :D
14:20<^Spike^>ah... details... ;)
14:20<Eddi|zuHause>as in "More infos follow:"
14:21<krinn>I see a "Please, create a ticket for a new project" link on the main page (so visible i didn't see it)
14:21<^Spike^>well as i said.. just more IRC friendly :)
14:21<krinn>so there's a link already, but it works only for humans with brain & eyes
14:26<Zuu>There is also a link if you happen to arrive here:
14:27<xDraKx>have a step by step to configure openttd multiplayer?
14:28<Zuu>It would highly depend on the hardware you got
14:28<krinn>This way with blinking and all i can see the link
14:28<Zuu>Some generic instructions can be found here:
14:29<Eddi|zuHause>ooooh animated gifs :)
14:29<Eddi|zuHause>and not the video-abuse kind
14:29<krinn>and the bill gates is so awesome
14:29<@Alberth>and he's even retired :)
14:30<krinn>love the down logos Created with notepad, the right way
14:31<Zuu>krinn: depending on the random seed this 1998 web generator may also show the link. :-p
14:32<krinn>lmao on my geocities version i get lucky and get the floppy anim in front of the link
14:32<Eddi|zuHause>that is really impossible to read
14:33<krinn>i got a greenish/blue background with some pattern on it, it hurt bad
14:34<Zuu>The site claims that the output is about 3000 times uglier than the input :-)
14:34<krinn>lol it must be close to that number yes
14:44<Eddi|zuHause>hm, looks like i had the exact same "code golf" conversation with andy half a year ago already :p
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14:45<krinn>aging bad Eddi|zuHause :)
14:46<krinn>it's the start : keep speaking about the same things again & again
14:46<krinn>next step would be running after nurses ^^
14:47<Eddi|zuHause>andy is way older than i am :p
14:48<krinn>everyone knows andy already run after nurses
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14:48<krinn>see ? speaking about nurses, and who rush in ?
14:49<Eddi|zuHause>and the worst part is: it was about the exact same line of code :p
14:49*andythenorth beer
14:55<Eddi|zuHause>oh, i actually made a ticket...
14:55<@Alberth>you are so much faster than you think :p
14:56<Eddi|zuHause>well, usually i think way faster than i am :p
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15:14<xDraKx>Please someone, i set my port forwarding 3979 and 3978, open port on firewall too, now that black window " -d " dont show nothing when i start a multiplayer game, what i need to do?
15:14<@Alberth>both udp and tcip ?
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15:15<xDraKx>y try here
15:15<xDraKx>and now this port 3979 do a success
15:16<xDraKx>but the game dont apears yet
15:16<@Alberth>I don't know how often the server refreshes the list
15:16<krinn>Error: I could not see your service on on port (3979)
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15:16<xDraKx>that black window
15:17<xDraKx>' -d "
15:17<@planetmaker>the list is updated rather quickly 5 minutes should suffice
15:17<xDraKx>now dont show nothing when i start a multiplayer game
15:17<xDraKx>its normal?
15:17<@planetmaker>-d != -D
15:17<krinn>your connect is refuse on that port, so your forwarding rules are bad
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15:18<@planetmaker>xDraKx, openttd -D
15:18<@planetmaker>not openttd -d
15:18<@planetmaker>it's different
15:19<@planetmaker>it's case sensitive
15:19<xDraKx>ok let my try this mom
15:21<xDraKx>well now apears something good =D
15:23<xDraKx>now the dedicated server is running but i m totally lost hauhaauh
15:23<xDraKx>how to configure this name etc ?
15:24<krinn>Zuu gave you a link to answer that upper
15:36<xDraKx>how to delete a server from list what i have tried but the server not exist
15:38<@planetmaker>shutdown server
15:39<xDraKx>no before i try to connect by ip but the ip is in the server list
15:40<xDraKx>can i delete this?
15:40<krinn>in openttd.cfg at servers section i think
15:43<xDraKx>very nice =DDDDDD
15:44<xDraKx>how to set terrain tipe, size etc for the server?
15:45<Xaroth|Work>in openttd.cfg
15:45<krinn><Zuu> Some generic instructions can be found here:
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15:48<andythenorth>git is good
15:49*andythenorth has been trying it
15:49<xDraKx>for the dedicated
15:49<andythenorth>not intuitve, but effective
15:50<xDraKx>for a dedicated server i can create a single and log out / restart dedicated server to use the last map/settings?
15:53<xDraKx>ok with this heh
15:54<xDraKx>One more thing, I see some online server that have a custom objectives, claim 4k pop other 15kkk company value etc, how can i do this in my server?
15:55<@planetmaker>by game scripts
15:58<xDraKx>where i can read more about this to make my own scripts??how to ?? etc
16:00<xDraKx>i make this script with notepad note ++ etc?
16:02<Eddi|zuHause>yes, you can make those with any editor
16:03<Eddi|zuHause>there's a tutorial out there somewhere
16:03<Xaroth|Work>probably on the wiki
16:03<xDraKx>i ll search this
16:03<Eddi|zuHause>starting from scratch might be a bit complicated, though
16:03<Xaroth|Work>might be easier to get an existing nogo script, and learn from that, indeed
16:04<andythenorth>zuu has a 'start here' nogo script
16:04<Zuu>Called Minimal GS
16:04<xDraKx>other thing for example the dedicated server, playing with friends and after save the game, how to load this game with all companies etc etc??? they will be saved in the server when i restart?
16:04<Eddi|zuHause>yeah, if in doubt, talk to Zuu :)
16:04<krinn>then i suggest don't use the tutorial gs, it's a tutorial gs to help users play openttd, but quiet complicated if you wish learn from it
16:04<Xaroth|Work>if in doubt, harass Zuu :P
16:05<krinn>if in no doubt, keep harassing Zuu
16:05<Xaroth|Work>xDraKx: companies will be saved
16:05<Xaroth|Work>players, will not.
16:05<Xaroth|Work>so remind them to set a company password
16:05<Eddi|zuHause>xDraKx: the server has "save" and "load" commands
16:05<Xaroth|Work>so they can rejoin their company when reconnecting
16:05<Eddi|zuHause>xDraKx: which you can access from your client via "rcon"
16:06<krinn>discovering to setup a server + learning howto make a GS : someone will have a looooooonnnnnnnnnngggggggggggg night
16:06<xDraKx>i dont need a dedicated server if i want to play the tradicional game only with friends yes? i can create the game in multiplayer directly?
16:06<xDraKx>yes i m testing now this rcon comands =D
16:06<xDraKx>very nice
16:08<xDraKx>now i just want to find something about scripting =D to develop some ideas
16:08<Eddi|zuHause>xDraKx: yes, you can just host a multiplayer server from any client. just it will die if you quit.
16:09<Eddi|zuHause>i guess nobody ever devised a protocol where another client takes over as the server
16:09<xDraKx>where can i see some scripts example? openttd have an expecific area of this kind?
16:10<Eddi|zuHause>xDraKx: there's an AI/Script section at the forum
16:10<Xaroth|Work>Eddi|zuHause: i doubt that's possible in the current network setup ottd uses :P
16:11<krinn>xDraKx, in the download content in openttd
16:11<Eddi|zuHause>Xaroth|Work: all it really needs is open ports
16:11<Eddi|zuHause>Xaroth|Work: every client has the whole game state anyway
16:11<Xaroth|Work>and detection
16:11<Xaroth|Work>and a good method of governing who becomes the new host
16:12<Xaroth|Work>and conflict handling if clients miss out on game state updates
16:12<Eddi|zuHause>yes, that's what a "protocol" is
16:12<Xaroth|Work>more than just a protocol
16:13<Xaroth|Work>also requires a fair bit of logic
16:13<xDraKx>all u ty a lot for all information today and patience with this new member heehe
16:14<Eddi|zuHause>a "protocol" is a set of rules/logic who does what in which situation
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16:25<xDraKx>what is the diff_custom?
16:25<xDraKx>if i want to use this i need to add this line in the openttd.cfg?
16:25<xDraKx>[gameopt] diff_custom = 2,2,1,3,300,2,0,2,0,1,2,0,1,0,0,0,0,0
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16:28<@planetmaker>that's an outdated setting
16:28<@planetmaker>for difficulty
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18:04<Eddi|zuHause>planetmaker: btw, the railtype translation table has more the character of a "declaration" rather than a "definition"
18:05<Eddi|zuHause>(because it only says "these railtypes are/might be there", not "these railtypes have this or that form/behaviour"
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18:25<Wolf01>'night all
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20:10<Supercheese>Ugh, it's more than 40°C in the sun here
20:11<Supercheese>a tad bit less in the shade
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20:28<DabuYu>i'm wondering, is there a grf set (or any project) which creates buildings which are actually existing, so towns will have existing world buildings? especially i'm interested in skyscrapers :)
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23:55<@planetmaker>DabuYu, have a look maybe at Total Town Replacement Set (TTRS)
---Logclosed Wed Jul 24 00:00:24 2013