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#openttd IRC Logs for 2013-07-26

---Logopened Fri Jul 26 00:00:26 2013
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00:25<George>Impotant question.
00:25<George>Please help!
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03:03<Xaroth|Work>George: that's hardly a bug report
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04:08<V453000>frosch123: unicorns ride rainbows, right?
04:11<frosch123>hmm, i should listen to some metal today
04:14<V453000>btw, pm: SmatZ not coming, he is on holiday near sea, returns tonight, needs to prepare for new job on monday
04:15<V453000>so :(
04:15<V453000>frosch123: everyday
04:16<__ln__>"Hier nicht aussteigen" "here not get out"
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04:23<NGC3982>Shut up, Wesley.
04:23<NGC3982>This Rasperry Pi project did not end up as cheap as one thought.
04:24<NGC3982>Finding out that composite video was broken, so i had to buy a HDMI>VGA converter, and with that a new 5V power supply, and with that a new chassie, and with that everything else.
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05:16<NGC3982>Mm. Cumbertomato did a great Khan.
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05:42<Eddi|zuHause>yes, sherlock is cool
05:42<@planetmaker>bah, that sucks, V453000 :-(
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06:54*__ln__ is eating a meal in Wolfenbuettel
06:58<Eddi|zuHause>my condolences
06:59<@planetmaker>wolfenbüttel is nice really
06:59<Eddi|zuHause>i've never been there, actually :)
06:59<@planetmaker>will you or did you see the library there, __ln__ ?
06:59<@planetmaker>with the evengelium of Henry the Lion?
06:59<Eddi|zuHause>planetmaker: anything in particular i should bring? i'm about to go shopping now
07:04<@planetmaker>insulation matrace and sleeping bag. If you feel like bringing something to eat, like making a salad or cake, it's your choice, just tell me what
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07:06<@planetmaker>if you can make a salat yourself, that likely would be more delicious than bought ones.
07:07<@planetmaker>I won't manage to make salads for all, I think
07:07<V453000>spartans, tonight we dine beer
07:07<V453000>no? :P
07:07<V453000>salad, duh :P
07:07<@planetmaker>well... salat. not letuce
07:08<@planetmaker>though salat can include latuce ;-)
07:08<V453000>POINT IS: it generally does not include beer
07:09<__ln__>pm, didn't see a lbrary yet, maybe i should
07:09<@planetmaker>yes :-)
07:09<@planetmaker>it's not big. it's also downtown. and worth the visit
07:17<V453000>you cannot drink a library ...
07:18<V453000>(I think)
07:18<__ln__>is it Herzog August Bibliothek?
07:19<Eddi|zuHause>hm, i'll try a potato salad, then. just need to figure out a transportation and cooling method...
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07:20<V453000>how about I bring beer, say, 80 bottles?
07:21<Eddi|zuHause>80? sounds a bit much... assuming you're not the only one bringing beer :)#
07:21<V453000>k 79
07:22<V453000>anyway Eddi I will come by a big car sooo if you want like an unicorn, we can take it too
07:23<Eddi|zuHause>i don't assume it is refrigerated, though :p
07:24<V453000>the car? iz
07:24<V453000>unicorn? dunno what you got :D
07:24<@planetmaker>V453000, sounds alright to me. 80 bottles... for 14(?) people... maybe not everyone has Czech drinking stamina :D
07:25<Eddi|zuHause>i'm fresh out of unicorns, i'm afraid
07:25<V453000>hmf, okay ... 40
07:25<@planetmaker>we'll have unicorns at the party, no doubt
07:25<@planetmaker>make it 60 :D
07:25<@planetmaker>it's a long night
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07:26<Eddi|zuHause>"Britain's new internet filtering program will be provided by Huawei (China)"
07:28<@Alberth>sounds like a splendid idea :p
07:28<@Rubidium>planetmaker: at most 13 drinking beer ;)
07:31<peter1139>Well they have experience of censorship...
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07:47*Alberth will also not drink beer
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08:11<frosch123>bye, see you tomorrow :)
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08:36<fjb>At most 12 drinking beer. ;)
08:37<V453000>do you drink pure ethanol or
08:38<@Rubidium>I doubt anyone drinks pure ethanol ;)
08:38<V453000>maybe not anybody in dutchylands, here some people do
08:38<V453000>rare cases
08:38<fjb>When does it begin tomorrow?
08:39<@Rubidium>V453000: more in the sense that I reckon it's impossible to create pure ware (pure as in without impurities)
08:40<V453000>well ye :P
08:40<@planetmaker>fjb, I said like 15h or so
08:40<@planetmaker>but anytime in the afternoon will be fine
08:40<@planetmaker>I just came back from the butcher... I hope that I got enough :D
08:41<fjb>We can get more tomorrow, if it isn't. :)
08:41<@Rubidium>so... should I buy stroopwafels?
08:41<V453000>if you aint got at least 2 whole cows and a whole unicorn, then it clearly isnt enough :P could reduce the beef amount, but the rest ...
08:41<@planetmaker>oh :-) stroopwafels and vanilla fla
08:42<@planetmaker>if you want it for breakfast or on ice cream... then that, too
08:42<@Rubidium>don't think I can manage keeping vanilla vla refridgerated for long enough
08:42<@planetmaker>true. bad time of the year
08:42<V453000>hence beer
08:42<Xaroth|Work>Rubidium: koelbox should handle it for a couple of hours?
08:42<V453000>see, it all fits together, beer is a solution to everything
08:42<@planetmaker>I think I got like 2 pieces of meat per person and a sausage... will that suffice?
08:43<@Rubidium>Xaroth|Work: don't have one, and since I'm going by train for a bit first... it's a bit of a hassle
08:43<V453000>I am pretty sure it should pm :)
08:43<@planetmaker>oh, and... how is it called? "Spieß"
08:43<Xaroth|Work>Rubidium: yeh, that doesn't work :P
08:43<@Rubidium>planetmaker: if it isn't a French sausage, then I guess it's enough
08:43<V453000>hm I will get a 1kg party mix of salty stuff
08:43<@planetmaker>I already got a dip.
08:43<V453000>salty stuff = dip?
08:43<@planetmaker>The woman at the butcher's knows how to sell stuff :D
08:43<@planetmaker>no. dip goes with salty stuff :-)
08:44<@planetmaker>so it's perfect
08:44<V453000>AH I SEE
08:44<V453000>dip = beer
08:44<V453000>so obvious
08:44<@planetmaker>well... no. it's creamy pasty... you dip in the salty stuff there
08:44<@planetmaker>thus dip
08:44<V453000>I see
08:44<V453000>we dont use that civilized things here :P
08:44<Prof_Frink>You can't dip stuff in a pasty.
08:44<@Rubidium>unless TrueBrain has a koelbox... and buys the stuff that needs to be refridgerated
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08:46<@Alberth>V453000: so no need to bring beer, we have dip already :p
08:46<V453000>Alberth: dip sounds risky though, better safe than sober
08:46<@planetmaker>ok... but if V brings so much beer, I should reduce the amount to buy that from my list
08:46<fjb>We need a real world pipeline grf for the vla.
08:46<@planetmaker>loool! Indeed
08:48<@planetmaker>so, will we all also play a joint session of OpenTTD when we're here?
08:48*fjb doesn't habe a note book. :(
08:48*Alberth only has paper note books :(
08:49<fjb>I have only an Android tablet. And OpenTTD fpr Android is not really playable.
08:49*V453000 is bringing notebook
08:49<V453000>so pm obtain a pc for everyone :D
08:49<V453000>new quest
08:49<@planetmaker>I've two computers which work... my desktop and my notebook... ;-)
08:49<V453000>they can hotseat, iz k
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08:50<V453000>openttd hotseat is that multiple people share one pc, one plays, rest drinks
08:51<@planetmaker>that definitely works fine
08:51<V453000>the drinking crew must consume at least the same amount as the monthly production of the highest producing secondary, or else!
08:51<@planetmaker>I kinda do that stuff with a friend of mine semi-regularily. Not OpenTTD, though. But definitely one playing, both drinking ;-)
08:51<V453000>those are the rules, cant explain that
08:51<V453000>yeah :)
08:52<fjb>You shout
08:52<V453000>we usually do that with some starcraft towerdefense or something
08:52<@planetmaker>fjb, sure ;-)
08:52<fjb>You should drink much, it is hot out there.
08:53<V453000>exactly, also beer doesnt have much vitamins in it so you have to drink a lot of it to compensate
08:53<fjb>Not beer...
08:53<V453000>that doesnt make sense
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09:08<@Alberth>hi hi
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09:11<LordAro>hmm, do i need a separate /boot partition? (if so, why?)
09:13<@Alberth>not really needed, I made one because at one time, the OS required ext3 for the boot partition, and ext4 for /
09:14<LordAro>ext4 is the 'best', right?
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09:16<@Alberth>I think there are newer file systems, but tbh I don't care much, as I don't depend much on disk access speed anyway
09:17<@Rubidium>hell no, ReiserFS is best! ;)
09:17<Xaroth|Work>there are more oppinions about which fs is best, than there are fs'
09:18<fjb>No zfs ist best. :P
09:20<LordAro>fine, i'll go with ext4 :P
09:21<LordAro>how about /swap? i've read that it should be 2*(size of RAM), but is this still valid today when i have 8GB RAM?
09:23<Xaroth|Work>I usually do some swap, as I hate having to deal with OOM-killed processes
09:23<Xaroth|Work>but I usually cap it at 5g
09:24<LordAro>that's what i've got currently
09:24<@Rubidium>I think that depends whether you want to suspend-to-disk; IIRC (not 100% sure), that saves RAM into swap
09:24<LordAro>do i want to? :L
09:29<@Alberth>LordAro: you want enough swap to move unused application data out of memory, more is quite useless. Executing programs stored at swap is so slow, it's not worth waiting for.
09:30<LordAro>well, i've never seen my swap being used (currently at 5GB) so that's enough?
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09:34<@Alberth>so you need to invent some program that's big enough to start using swap :p
09:34<Pinkbeast>LordAro: 2*RAM is folklore.
09:34<Pinkbeast>LordAro: _many_ years ago, swap had to be = RAM on Linux. Various versions of this rule have mutated and floated around since.
09:35<Pinkbeast>LordAro: On the face of it now, for a given projected load, more memory implies less swap.
09:50<V453000> ... ehmmm ... fuck linux? :P
09:52<V453000>or is that joke even a fedora reference? :d
09:56<Pinkbeast>Hipsters and fedoras shurely
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11:14<peter1139>how the hell does freeciv manage to switch from square to hex grid... during game...
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11:17<@Alberth>hex grid is just a square grid with the even columns moved 1/2 square down? :)
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11:19<peter1139>it's more the movement restrictions i'm thinking of
11:20<peter1139>it seems to get around that by allowing you to move along an edge between 2 tiles
11:22<Eddi|zuHause>hex grid is just defining which tiles are adjacent?
11:35<heffer>planetmaker: weekend trip? :D
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12:01<heffer>ah i see. i'm in stuttgart atm unfortunately
12:03<peter1139>seems close enough
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12:05<__ln__>tomorrow's forecast is now 36 degrees
12:05<peter1139>that's 1/10th of a circle
12:06<Eddi|zuHause>hm, i have some sort of a laptop, but it's not "gaming optimized"
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12:07<peter1139>i bet it runs openttd fine
12:07<Eddi|zuHause>it's rather a work laptop and should probably not run games of any kind
12:07<peter1139>my work laptop is about 10 years old now
12:07<__ln__>what about simulations
12:07<peter1139>so not much cop for games. or java. or... anything really.
12:08<Eddi|zuHause>not sure about mine. but it has vista on it
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12:12<@planetmaker>heffer, that's close. We'll have attendance from Montreal :-)
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12:13<@planetmaker>and the forecast got better. Chance for rain / thunderstorm seems to have gone. But then... it's raining now :-)
12:13<heffer>planetmaker: unfortunately i have other plans this weekend which is why i drove from leverkusen to stuttgart in the first place :D
12:14<__ln__>pm, do you live at the same address as before?
12:14<heffer>if i knew earlier i might have come :D
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12:14<@planetmaker>__ln__, yes
12:15<__ln__>ok, good
12:15<@planetmaker>see private message
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12:40<xDraKx>Can I Enable the Original AI on openttd?
12:43<Eddi|zuHause>xDraKx: "Simple AI" tries to mimic the original AI as good as it can
12:43<xDraKx>the AIs to download on download content have on almost like the original ???
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12:45<xDraKx>i have tested some but all just bought lots and lots of buses trucks and dont be cool like the original ehehe
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12:55<xDraKx>Simple AI is like the original ai?
12:56<xDraKx>the make everything? trains airplanes, boats, trucks buses etc ???
12:57<@Alberth>afaik it aims to do that, how much it succeeded, I don't know
12:57<@Alberth> may be useful
13:07<xDraKx>have a openttd version with ai enabled? the Original AI
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13:09<alluke>tomorrowlaaaaand <3
13:10<TrueBrain>sometimes it seems they allow all kinds of weirdos on the internet
13:10<alluke>there should be iq and personality tests before you can buy internet connection
13:11<@planetmaker>xDraKx, the "original AI" would simply sit and do nothing. Except spending money on pointless terraforming. Is that what you want?
13:13<xDraKx>No but i test example Nocab, this AI just bought lots and lots of trucks buses, example 30 trucks in a small road.
13:13<@planetmaker>and it's successful. Quite successful
13:13<@planetmaker>Did you beat it moneywise?
13:17<xDraKx>y sure
13:18<@Alberth>time to make your own AI :)
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13:18<xDraKx>nocab today is the most complete ai? or have other?
13:19<@planetmaker>did you look at the link provided to you by Alberth ?
13:21<xDraKx>y nocab is the only one with all "yes" ehehe
13:21<xDraKx>but is this really the best today?
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13:22<@Alberth>for some definition of "best", yes
13:22<@Alberth>for some other definition of "best", probably no
13:22<@planetmaker>^^ that
13:26<@Alberth>trying to explain there are several notions of "the same" is much more fun ;)
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13:45<@DorpsGek>Commit by translators :: r25628 trunk/src/lang/faroese.txt (2013-07-26 17:45:08 UTC)
13:45<@DorpsGek>-Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
13:45<@DorpsGek>faroese - 2 changes by karihj
13:53<@planetmaker>ha, it paid off that I gave him translation rights today ;-)
14:04<fjb>What is that? :-)
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14:31<LordAro>hmm, ksp or minecraft?
14:32<Xaroth|Work>meh @ minecraft
14:32<Eddi|zuHause>"Authorities in eastern Turkey have successfully determined a falcon to be an actual falcon, not a spy of Israel"
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15:06<fjb>Xaroth|Work: ;-)
15:14<Eddi|zuHause><LordAro> how about /swap? i've read that it should be 2*(size of RAM), but is this still valid today when i have 8GB RAM? <-- when i went from 1GB RAM + 2GB swap to 4GB RAM i thought "i guess i don't need swap now", and got immediately an OOM, with a program that worked perfectly fine before...
15:14<Eddi|zuHause>i now went to 12GB RAM, that seems to be enough for now :)
15:15<Eddi|zuHause>but i hate swap partitions... too inflexible
15:15<Eddi|zuHause>so i added and removed swapfiles as needed instead
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15:16<peter1139>Swap: 9.3G 0B 9.3G
15:17<Eddi|zuHause>but the "2*RAM" thing is really just a basic figure that has proven useful during a mostly moores-law-based development, it has no real foundation
15:17<peter1139>swap's a on spare drive with no load, so...
15:18<Eddi|zuHause>while (have OOM problems) add_swap();
15:19<@Rubidium>the only OOM issues I had was OOM-killer not reacting quickly enough
15:20<Eddi|zuHause>yeah, the OOM killer never actually kicked in, it was just sitting there for hours (trying to swap? even without any swap?) never killing anything and impossible to do input
15:20<@Rubidium>i.e. an application that goes effectively rogue first trashes caches, then pushes other applications into swap (making the computer near unresponsive) before it's eventually OOM killed
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16:47<imachine_>my dedicated server keeps removing data from [newgrf] section in config file
16:48<imachine_>I have the newgrf's tar files in /usr/local/share/openttd/newgrf/
16:48<imachine_>I know the newgrf's are compatible.
16:48<imachine_>I run my server with openttd -D -c /usr/local/etc/openttd.cfg
16:48<imachine_>(1.3.1) any ideas?
16:49<@planetmaker>does the server have actually write access to the quoted dir?
16:49<imachine_>/usr/local/bin/openttd -c /usr/local/etc/openttd.cfg -s null -m null -v null -b null -D -f this is the actual way I run it.
16:49<imachine_>planetmaker, it should, I run it as root.
16:49<imachine_>(maybe that's not so smart)
16:49<@planetmaker>definitely not smart
16:49<imachine_>planetmaker, shouldn't it drop privileges or smth? I run it with an 'rc' script.
16:50<imachine_>planetmaker, does openttd support privilege dropping on itself?
16:50<@planetmaker>dunno what an 'rc' script is, but it keeps the priviliges of the user it is started from
16:50<imachine_>anything residing in /etc/rc.d or /etc/init.d could be an rc script.
16:51<imachine_>(or, in /usr/local/etc/rc.d/, in this case)
16:51<@planetmaker>ah, right
16:51<imachine_>anyway, yeah. that's one thing. the privileges. another is that it just doesn't work with newgrfs.
16:51<imachine_>any ideas?
16:51<@planetmaker>I'd suggest: start it as a normal user. Put the relevant config file in ~/.openttd/openttd.cfg
16:52<@planetmaker>and: start openttd only after you edited the file. It will otherwise overwrite any changes you made upon exit
16:52<imachine_>oh, ok.
16:52<imachine_>that makes sense ;-)
16:52<@planetmaker>never run applications as root... unless you administer your system
16:53<@planetmaker>by means of that application
16:53<@planetmaker>also... openttd does not even need installing. Thus if you download openttd, unzip it in a folder like ~/ottd-server
16:53<@planetmaker>you can unzip the version you want to use there. And all will be fine
16:54<@planetmaker>you can then simply start ~/ottd-server/openttd and it will use the config file from ~/.openttd/openttd.cfg
16:54<@planetmaker>and all content you might have in ~/.openttd/baseset ~/.openttd/content_download/* ~/.openttd/newgrf etc
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16:55<@planetmaker>if you plan to run *several* servers. Then place the cfg next to the binary
16:55<@planetmaker>and possibly symlink the content folders to the sub-folders in ~/.openttd
16:56<@planetmaker>lrwxrwxrwx 1 ottdc users 37 Nov 9 2012 content_download -> /home/ottdc/.openttd/content_download
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16:58<imachine_>planetmaker, cheers man, that's extensive.
16:58<imachine_>I build my own openttd.
16:59<@planetmaker>build it from svn
16:59<imachine_>and just realized it ran as root as we spoke.
16:59<imachine_>nah, I want 1.3.1 for compatibility.
16:59<imachine_>I like binary updates.
16:59<@planetmaker>eh... ok, so you don't build it :-)
16:59<LordAro>planetmaker: the -c option should work though, right?
16:59<@planetmaker>I thought build = compile :-)
16:59<imachine_>I like binary updates for my desktop, and build from ports on my server.
17:00<@planetmaker>yes, but use svn to build the binary on the server
17:00<imachine_>and to keep them in line compatible, I want 1.3.1 on both sides.
17:00<@planetmaker>or you might not enjoy it too much. Also easier update
17:00<imachine_>ports has 1.3.1
17:00<@planetmaker>ports? macports?
17:00<@planetmaker>you don't need that
17:00<imachine_>binary on openttd is 1.3.1
17:00<imachine_>planetmaker, freebsd ports.
17:01<@planetmaker>1.3.1 is current. Until... this weekend :D
17:01<fjb>OpenTTD easily compiles on FreeBSD without a port.
17:01<imachine_>yepp, and untill the maintainer updates the freebsd port, that's what I plan on running.
17:01<@planetmaker>imachine_, yes... just svn checkout. And compile it. should work like a charm
17:02<imachine_>thanks for the help. come join the IMC HardCore Tycoon Clash server ;)
17:02*imachine_ &
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17:02<LordAro>"/me &" ? :L
17:03<LordAro>so are you going to press the 'release' button all together? :)
17:04<+glx>@planetmaker> 1.3.1 is current. Until... this weekend :D <-- spoiler
17:05<@planetmaker>bad me :-)
17:05<fjb>Nobody did read it.
17:06<@planetmaker>most people who care about the exact date will be here :D
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17:06<@planetmaker>and I'm fine with spoiling it for LordAro this one time :D
17:06*fjb should install OpenTTD on the tablet.
17:07*LordAro would've attended, but Germany is a bit far for me :(
17:07<@planetmaker>maybe I should install an android VM
17:07<@planetmaker>LordAro, is it? What about... people coming from Canada?
17:07<@planetmaker>I bet that's further
17:08<LordAro>he has money :P
17:08<@planetmaker>dunno about sweden. Might be equally far :-)
17:09<@planetmaker>maybe not time-wise. dunno
17:09<@planetmaker>last time I went to England it cost me like 35€ return for the flight
17:09<LordAro>that sounds very cheap
17:09<@planetmaker>flight to Gatewick. Return from Birmingham
17:09*LordAro never actually tried very hard :L
17:10<@planetmaker>travelling around by bus was also quite cheap
17:11<@planetmaker>ferry was like 100€ last time I took that. iirc
17:11<@planetmaker>took considerably longer :-)
17:11<LordAro>i've only ever gone via ferry to the mainland before
17:12<LordAro>huh, only 2 or 3 times i think
17:12<@planetmaker>was from Hamburg to Dover, I think
17:16<LordAro>language barrier is rather scary too :L
17:17<fjb>Most people are speaking English here, sort of.
17:17<@planetmaker>that is just a very sad reason, LordAro
17:17<Eddi|zuHause>wait, release? i thought we make 4k commits at the party...
17:18<Xaroth|Work>only 4k?
17:19<Xaroth|Work>I mean, we're at 25600 with 4400 you'll be hitting 30000
17:19<Xaroth|Work>makes a better party :)
17:19<@planetmaker>strange math :D
17:19<fjb>4k are a lot of text.
17:19<Eddi|zuHause>well the party is called 25+4k
17:20<@planetmaker>Eddi|zuHause, I fear cets compile fails due to nml compile
17:20<@planetmaker>unless it doesn't
17:20<Eddi|zuHause>planetmaker: need eddi-nml
17:21<fjb>Beach objects grf? Girls?
17:22<Eddi|zuHause>fjb: if you can distinguish that at 1x4 pixels :p
17:22<@planetmaker>beach object grf exists... girls... hard to tell ^
17:23<fjb>Eddi|zuHause: You could distinguish Lara Croft at that size.
17:23<fjb>planetmaker: I just saw that grf in the list while installing OpenTTD on my tablet.
17:24<@planetmaker>anyway. Good night. And see you tomorrow
17:24<fjb>See you tomorrow.
17:24<fjb>Good night, planetmaker.
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17:51<fjb>OpenTTD on Android become a lot better than the last time I tried it.
17:53<V453000>I would prooobably shit a hedgehog before being satisfied with openttd without keyboard and mouse :)
17:54<Eddi|zuHause>that's what god made USB for
17:54<dihedral>cu you tomorrow :-)
17:54<+glx>need an adaptator to plug keyboard and mouse on a phone :)
17:55<+glx>though maybe bluetooth works too
17:56<fjb>It should.
17:58<Eddi|zuHause>a USB-Bluetooth adapter :p
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18:10<TWerkhoven>i never tried that
18:26<peter1139>bluetooth keyboards don't work quite right
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---Logclosed Sat Jul 27 00:00:28 2013