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#openttd IRC Logs for 2013-07-29

---Logopened Mon Jul 29 00:00:30 2013
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01:14<krinn>morning, with rain :/
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02:40<@planetmaker>moin
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03:51<dihedral>good morning
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04:49<Zuu>good morning
05:05<dihedral>good morning Zuu
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05:16<@planetmaker>hello dihedral Zuu frosch123 :-)
05:16<Zuu>hello planetmaker
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05:18<dihedral>quack :-D
05:18<frosch123>moin :)
05:19<frosch123>anyone tried the win9x build lately? :p
05:19<dihedral>pfft
05:19<peter1139>anyone still using a win9x machine? o_O
05:20<frosch123>it's also recommended for xp < sp3
05:20<frosch123>or something like that
05:20<peter1139>no excuse for not installing service packs :S
05:20<Xaroth|Work>I haven't touched a 9X machine in a LONG time
05:21<frosch123>hmm, i think i still have a 2000 vm from the last time the 9x build just failed
05:23<dihedral>winxp is eol
05:23<dihedral>so who should care :-P
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05:25<wakou2>Good day Otters
05:25<peter1139>2000 shouldn't need 9x
05:25<peter1139>but who knows
05:25<wakou2>quick Q, how can I remove a sign?
05:26<Zuu>wakou2: If it's your own, ctrl+click on it
05:26<Eddi|zuHause>or just remove all text
05:26<Zuu>If it belongs to anyone else, it is also possible to remove it, but in that case you need to click on the sign to open the sign window.
05:27<Zuu>If there are a lot of signs from other companies that you don't want to see, disable "show competitor signs" instead.
05:27<frosch123>"Welcome to the OpenTTD 1.3.2 32-bit for Windows 95, 98, ME, 2000 and XP without SP3 Setup Wizard" <- wow, what a wizard!
05:27<wakou2>OK ty... (I'm obv not awake yet!)
05:27<@planetmaker>wizards... old wizards. They die hard ;-)
05:28<Zuu>A removed sign is removed for all other players too, so only do that if you think that your competitors would be okay with it.
05:29<blathijs>dihedral: XP isn't EOL until next year, right?
05:29<@planetmaker>roughly yes
05:29<@planetmaker>
05:29<@planetmaker>April 8, 2014
05:30<wakou2>Zuu... hmm does not work? ctrl-click...
05:30<frosch123>anyway, confirmed, win9x build is completely borked
05:30<frosch123>and noone noticed during rc :p
05:30<@planetmaker>ohu
05:30<@planetmaker>:-)
05:30<frosch123>actualy, let's see whether 1.3.1 worked
05:31<Eddi|zuHause>i remember getting a "success" notice about that a few days ago
05:31<Eddi|zuHause>not sure though
05:31<wakou2>Zuu Ok got it now, was ctrl clicking the square, not the sign.
05:32<Zuu>ok
05:33<frosch123>no, 1.3.1 fails as well at least :)
05:34<Eddi|zuHause>whatever
05:37<Xaroth|Work>frosch123: so nobody has used ottd on 9X in how long? :P
05:38<frosch123>1.2.3 fails as well
05:38<frosch123>i am going to check since when it fails, and then suggest to drop support
05:38<Eddi|zuHause>what kind of "fail"?
05:39<blathijs>frosch123: There's also the option that there is something wrong with your test system, if all these builds look broken to you
05:40<frosch123>blathijs: i am not the original reporter :)
05:40<blathijs>Still... :-)
05:41<blathijs>But it does seem unlikely that a change in Windows broke OpenTTD, that's true ;-p
05:41<frosch123>hmm, yeah, 1.1.5 fails as well, starts to get weird
05:42<frosch123>oh, i should test 1.2.1 apparently
05:42<frosch123>fs#5250 says we fixed it there :p
05:42<Xaroth|Work>to then break it again? :P
05:43<wakou2>So, guys whilst you were all offf at the wildest party since woodstock, I encountered a problem in a game....... It is not the first time I had hit this wall, and it is extremley frustrating.
05:45<wakou2>With the help of some people on here, SamanthaD, Krinn and Aristide, I got it fixed, and would like to add this little tip to the wiki....
05:46<wakou2>But first would like to ask a few noob type Q's just so I don't go ahead and write some nonsense on the wiki page (manual)....
05:46<wakou2>That OK with you folks?
05:46<Xaroth|Work>don't ask to ask
05:46<Xaroth|Work>just ask
05:47<wakou2>:)
05:49<wakou2>OK Is there any way to show Local Authority ratings in a more granular way? ie when you just have 'appaling' with no figure or percentage, it is difficult to know whether your comapny is making any progress...
05:49<wakou2>....towards being able to build again etc..
05:50<Eddi|zuHause>no, that's all you get
05:52<wakou2>Eddi|zuHause: Honestly I think this would be a genuine improvement, and easy surely for coders types to implement, so it show as for instance "very poor (19%)" so that the player knows he only has a little way to go to become "mediocre" for example...
05:52<wakou2>(I obv don't know the numbers, but this just an example)
05:54<wakou2>Secondly, when planting trees, does the DENSITY of tree cover matter to LA approval ratings? ie you can plant tress on a square four times, but is it only the first time that improves the rating?
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05:55<Eddi|zuHause>no, only the first tree on the tile
05:55<wakou2>Third, (I guess I know this, but just to be sure) Only squares 'belonging' a LA affect the company rating?
05:56<Eddi|zuHause>very likely, but i don't know that myself
05:57<wakou2>And that boundary of LA ownership how is it calculated? Distance from centre combined somehow with population?
05:58<Eddi|zuHause>no idea. it's probably fixed
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06:02<frosch123>ok, no idea what is borked about 2000, but luckily i also had a 98 vm
06:02<frosch123>there at least 1.3.1 worked :)
06:06<dihedral>lol
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06:11<fjb_phone>Moin
06:12<Eddi|zuHause>you know that your phone connection sometimes breaks horribly, constantly rejoining?
06:20<wakou2>I found a little buglet in the wiki ottd.org sign-up page. The dialogue boxes are labelled in Japanese. Whom should tell about this?...
06:20<wakou2>http://account.openttd.org/en/signup
06:20<Zuu>It has been reported on the forum in the problems section. No idea if anyone has reported it to bugs.openttd.org though.
06:21<wakou2>Zuu: Ok ty
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06:31<@planetmaker>hi fjb_phone
06:31<frosch123>planetmaker: was the japanese thing actually reproducible at your site when we/tb tried?
06:31<frosch123>because it currently happens for me :o
06:32<@planetmaker>sorry... what japanese thing?
06:32<frosch123>ottd signup page not using english text, but some unknown asian script
06:32<Eddi|zuHause>yes, it was
06:32<@planetmaker>ah, TB created this on my machine. But I didn't watch how he did it. I just saw it on my screen here
06:33<frosch123>ok, so it's at least not completely random :)
06:33<frosch123>though stilly completely weird :p
06:33<@planetmaker>I think it's perfectly reproducable from what I recall TB arguing
06:33<@planetmaker>he'll be able to give you the exact steps, TrueBrain
06:34<Eddi|zuHause>there were no steps involved, just logout and go to the signup page
06:35<@planetmaker>indeed
06:36<fjb_phone>Eddi|zuHause: I know, just had to set it up the right way.
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06:53<wakou2>frosch123: a screenshot any help to you? http://wstaw.org/m/2013/07/29/signuppage.png
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07:31<krinn>hi
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07:35<wakou2>krinn: Hi
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07:44<wakou2>Eddi|zuHause: Are you the same Eddi who just replied to my post on the forum, re LA ratings suggestion?
07:44<Xaroth|Work>two Eddis? the thought alone should scare many a child.
07:44<wakou2>:)
07:50<@Alberth>moin
07:52<wakou2>Alberth: Hi
07:53<fjb_phone>Moin Alberth
07:55<@Alberth>hi hi
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08:28<krinn>if i open a sub project in one of my AI, can i get it move to another category later ? (tired to wait hosting answer @devzone)
08:31<@Alberth>planetmaker: ^^
08:32<@Alberth>krinn: you picked a wrong weekend for requesting changes :)
08:32<krinn>:D seems
08:33<krinn>it's also one with storms for me, hence i don't feel safe
08:42<@planetmaker>the category can be changed (and is mostly pointless and only for looks and convenience as it only affects sorting in the DevZone's project list)
08:42<@planetmaker>the URL of it can't change, though
08:43<@planetmaker>uh, you're wormnest?
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08:43<andythenorth>moin
08:43<krinn>me ?
08:43<@planetmaker>hm, no
08:44<@planetmaker>why did you assign the issue to yourself when applying for a project?
08:44<krinn>well, i think it was to tell if i would be able to update... it
08:45<@planetmaker>assignment means that you'll resolve the issue. Thus create it yourself :-)
08:45<@planetmaker>it's assigned to whomever needs to take action next ;-)
08:45<krinn>:) could die waiting there, why my name is list if i cannot take the action ?
08:46<@planetmaker>you can assign it to anyone, I guess
08:46<@Alberth>hi hi andythenorth, planetmaker
08:46<krinn>checking, but list was short
08:46<@planetmaker>hello Alberth :-)
08:46<@planetmaker>and hi andythenorth
08:47<krinn>yeah short list : 8 people including me
08:47<@planetmaker>krinn, why cEngine?
08:47<@planetmaker>I mean the name, what does the c stand for?
08:48<@planetmaker>lib URL usually go ailib-XXX
08:48<@planetmaker>what should XXX be in your case?
08:48<krinn>class, i've just keep the original name i use in my ai
08:48<andythenorth>wrt to GS, I was considering that there might be use for a lib that can handle common goals
08:48<krinn>c for class that handle engine = c+engine
08:49<andythenorth>e.g. nocargoal (transport x amount), connect 2 cities goal, build industries goal, supply an industry with x amount input goal etc
08:49<@planetmaker>ok. And what shall I chose as XXX now? :-) cengine or engine? or?
08:49<@Alberth>krinn: all squirrel code are classes :p
08:49<krinn>:) Alberth
08:49<andythenorth>then GS could use these goals from the library for a bigger GS - for example, SV, or JobSecurity
08:49<krinn>ailib-cenginelib ?
08:49<andythenorth>Zuu: ^^
08:50<@planetmaker>twice lib?
08:50<krinn>name is just for commit ?
08:50<@Alberth>krinn: nope, it's used all over teh place
08:50<@planetmaker>It's the repo URL and path like http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/ailib-list/repository
08:51<@planetmaker>it's the dir name basically I create
08:51<@Alberth>krinn: why not make it part of the ailib?
08:51<@planetmaker>it's an ailib...
08:51<@Alberth>oh, ailib is the umbrella name of course. Sorry
08:52<krinn>it's an ailib, name cEngineLib because i was thinking EngineLib was a bit pretentieux (let me google that)
08:52<@planetmaker>ailib-cengine then
08:53<krinn>ok
08:53<@Alberth>andythenorth: +1 on a GSlib :)
08:53<andythenorth>for me, the entry point to a GS is quite high
08:53<@planetmaker>andythenorth, yes, I (meanwhile) think that'll be useful. Dunno really why it doesn't exist
08:53<andythenorth>meanwhile I'm not a good programmer, but I get stuff done
08:54<andythenorth>but still, I have to learn too much for a GS, it's a barrier to me starting
08:54<@Alberth>andythenorth: so don't start with a library, just write a GS
08:54<@Alberth>where perhaps one class does "common stuff"
08:54<andythenorth>I don't want to write a library at all :)
08:54<andythenorth>I want to consume the library
08:55<@Alberth>steal the code of nocargoal / silicon valley :)
08:55<frosch123>damn, are you also as mosquito bites as i am? everything is itching :p
08:55<andythenorth>try anti-histamines
08:55<andythenorth>or such
08:55<krinn>tiger one frosch123 ?
08:56<@Alberth>frosch123: I also have itching spots all over my arms :(
08:58<krinn>thank you planetmaker
08:58<@planetmaker>you're welcome
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09:17<LordAro>heyo
09:17<krinn>hi
09:20<@Alberth>hi LordAro
09:20<LordAro>hai Alberth & krinn
09:26<Zuu>krinn: in the url, strip the final 'lib'. Eg ailib-cengine
09:26<Zuu>The library itself can still be named cEngineLib if you like
09:28<krinn>planetmaker suggest it already zuu :) http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/ailib-cengine
09:30<Zuu>krinn: In library.nut change GetUrl => GetURL. I know that I have this error in a few places. API doc: http://noai.openttd.org/api/trunk/classAIInfo.html#defa4714964d7458dfb1617f7b0ad135
09:31<krinn>wow i must have that one everywhere then
09:31<Eddi|zuHause>mosquito bites are worst at my knees, for some reason
09:31<krinn>lol Eddi|zuHause better than another part no, bad days to be nudist
09:32<Eddi|zuHause>not sure what you're trying to say...
09:33<krinn>better gets bites on knees than ass
09:35<Eddi|zuHause>you know that mosquitos can sting through clothes?
09:35<Xaroth|Work>I have 4 mosquito bites on my ankle.. they are fucking annoying
09:36<Xaroth|Work>when you think they stop itching, you take 3 steps.. your shoes rub against them
09:36<Xaroth|Work>and bam, itchy again
09:36<@Rubidium>Xaroth|Work: only solution is amputation... and I'm kinda considering that
09:37<Xaroth|Work>Rubidium: meh, i'm too attached to my feet :(
09:37<krinn>Rubidium, i do to, but for mosquito's head
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10:01<LordAro>hmm. music manager. which would you pick/use?
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10:06<krinn>clementine
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10:17<Zuu>I only did get about 10 mosquito bites. Some itch a little, but nothing too bad.
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10:20<dihedral><Rubidium> Xaroth|Work: only solution is amputation... and I'm kinda considering that <- then he can join TrueBrain who will only have one leg also (as discussed during the weekend)
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11:19<@planetmaker>@ports
11:19<@DorpsGek>planetmaker: OpenTTD uses TCP and UDP port 3979 for server <-> client communication, UDP port 3978 for masterserver (advertise) communication (outbound), and TCP port 3978 for content service, a.k.a. BaNaNaS (outbound)
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11:27<dihedral>actually that is missing TCP 3977
11:27<Xaroth|Work>yep
11:28<dihedral>and it's way too much
11:28<Xaroth|Work>well, admin port is optional
11:29<dihedral>true
11:30<andythenorth>Bbl
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11:44*Rubidium waves to andy
11:44<andythenorth>o/
11:47<@Rubidium>did you like the nyancorn?
11:48<andythenorth>o_O
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11:53<@Rubidium>or weren't you made aware of that construction?
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12:07<andythenorth>I saw a picture of something on someone's head...
12:07<andythenorth>but was told to deny all knowledge in public ;)
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12:17<V453000>:D
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12:33<@Terkhen>hello
12:38<andythenorth>hola Terkhen
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12:42<krinn>hello Terkhen
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12:45<krinn>not the top odd thing that can be seen, but openttd always add 1 to engine speed in the ui
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12:53<frosch123>there are like 3 units for engine speeds
12:54<krinn>well the one in my display is the same as in noai, except the +1
12:54<krinn>in km/h
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13:10<XeryusTC>how do you tell tell openttd to use the release version string instead of revision number when compiling?
13:10<XeryusTC>ye olde method of ./configure --revision doesn't work anymore :(
13:13<@planetmaker>you don't.
13:13<@planetmaker>You have to obtain the release version for the revision string
13:14<@planetmaker>doing that on one of our servers btw caused the removal. As it caused desyncs
13:15<@planetmaker>which took a day of debugging. pointlessly
13:19<@Rubidium>XeryusTC: if you need the release version string and you get the revision number, then you aren't using the release
13:21-!-megakacktus [~debussy@67-6-68-247.mpls.qwest.net] has joined #openttd
13:25<XeryusTC>Rubidium: seems like you're correct
13:29<@Rubidium>so it prevented another day of desync debugging ;)
13:29-!-Djohaal [~Djohaal@189.58.26.98.dynamic.adsl.gvt.net.br] has joined #openttd
13:32<murr4y>wow http://i.imgur.com/5upTSax.jpg
13:32-!-glx [~glx@000128ec.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd
13:32-!-mode/#openttd [+v glx] by ChanServ
13:34-!-Elukka [~Elukka@a91-152-213-89.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit []
13:35<frosch123>murr4y: that picture has been on wikipedia for 5 years
13:35-!-Wolf01 [~wolf01@0001288e.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd
13:35<frosch123>it's 4 cliients btw
13:36<Wolf01>hello :P
13:36<frosch123>no shared viewport
13:37-!-Aristide [~quassel@81.253.35.193] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
13:37<Wolf01>yesterday my PSU decided that bonfires are good
13:45<@DorpsGek>Commit by translators :: r25634 trunk/src/lang/estonian.txt (2013-07-29 17:45:15 UTC)
13:45<@DorpsGek>-Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
13:45<@DorpsGek>estonian - 144 changes by KSiimson
13:45-!-Progman [~progman@p57A185EC.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd
13:52-!-megakacktus [~debussy@67-6-68-247.mpls.qwest.net] has left #openttd [Live long and prosper]
13:54<@Alberth>Wolf01: hi, and :(
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14:10<Wolf01>not such a problem, I was here, luckily, at first I thought it was a power loss, but the air conditioner was happily sucking it's part of humidity from the air unable to lower the temperature, and I have a UPS, then I noticed a strange sound, like an electric component on fire (I really know it, I set on fire many of them at school :P) and the room suddenly was full of toxic smoke
14:13<TWerkhoven>ouch
14:14<TWerkhoven>i had the same thing, breakers tripped but ups happilly kept powering the pc.
14:14<TWerkhoven>got popcorn instead of fire though
14:14<Wolf01>:)
14:15<Wolf01>time to test the new PSU
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14:20<murr4y>frosch123: oh :(
14:20<murr4y>that was better left to the imagination :p
14:23<frosch123>you can count the number of keyboard/mice, win startbars and ottd main toolbar :p
14:28-!-zooks [~zooks@vhe-540241.sshn.net] has joined #openttd
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14:37<Zuu>frosch123: Or even easier, the number of news messages at the bottom of each OpenTTD client
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14:57<krinn>doing dictatorai to help me doing cenginelib to help me doing dictatorai... listening to hell's bells
15:02-!-The_Dude [~Miranda@ip-213-220-219-55.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #openttd
15:02<The_Dude>hello there lovely people :-)
15:03<krinn>hi The_Dude
15:03<The_Dude>is here any expert for openttd MSVC compiling? I've got small question regarding last release
15:04<Zuu>@get 3
15:04<@DorpsGek>Zuu: Don't ask to ask, just ask
15:04<The_Dude>I am doing that, just wait
15:04<Zuu>Eg. depending on the question, there may be someone who can answer it.
15:05<The_Dude>when I compile with WITH_ICU disabled, I 've got funny character in openttd multiplayer chat, it puts "?" before every chat message, now, do I have to compile with WITH_ICU enabled, or is there a way to still compile without it and get normal output?
15:05<The_Dude>just to add, if I compile with WITH_ICU, it is of course ok
15:06<Zuu>frosch123: ^^ is that your 9x problem?
15:06<The_Dude>any light into that edge issue is appreciated :-)
15:07<frosch123>Zuu: no, but makes it more suspicious that 9x also fails due to WITHOUT_ICU#
15:08<The_Dude>let's talk about win7 for a while :-)
15:08<The_Dude>in 1.3.1 all was ok
15:08<frosch123>same for 9x :p
15:08-!-zeknurn [~sup@hd9483b0c.seveveb.dyn.perspektivbredband.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
15:09<The_Dude>I was not able to find out whether there was some change, or if it relates to new openttd useful
15:09<The_Dude>:-)
15:09<frosch123>everything about text rendering and icu changed between 1.3.1 and 1.3.2
15:09<The_Dude>well, I can of course compile with WITH_ICU, but I dont like the extra 8MB :-)
15:09-!-zeknurn [~sup@hd9483b0c.seveveb.dyn.perspektivbredband.net] has joined #openttd
15:10<The_Dude>everything? so WITH_ICU is like obligatory now?
15:11<frosch123>no, but WITHOUT_ICU is mostly untested
15:12<The_Dude>ok, so should I report it as bug? :-)
15:12-!-amiller [~amiller@129-2-129-154.wireless.umd.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
15:12<The_Dude>I dont know what development intenstion concerning this issue are
15:12<frosch123>supporting non-european alphabets
15:13-!-zooks [~zooks@vhe-540241.sshn.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
15:13<+glx>and improved layout too
15:16<The_Dude>so what will be next? chinese and Sanskrit perhaps? :D
15:16<The_Dude>I miss the cuneiform too ;-)
15:17<frosch123>chinese is easy
15:17<The_Dude>yes, if you are Chinese
15:18<frosch123>no, easy compared to arabic or tamil
15:18<The_Dude>that might be more accurate :-)
15:18<frosch123>layouting chinese is even easier than european
15:18<frosch123>all letters have the same width anyway
15:19<krinn>i speak 30 languages
15:19<krinn>... when drunk
15:19<frosch123>ottd speaks 54
15:21<The_Dude>will be 55 if you add brail too :-)
15:21<Zuu>frosch123: If you want a challenge, try to support signed languages. Eg. for at least longer strings/explanations, offer a video. :-)
15:21<frosch123>Zuu: does it need a video, or do some sprite suffice?
15:22<frosch123>i.e. does it need motion?
15:22<The_Dude>yes, that would become very international, everyone can recognize pictures :-)
15:22<frosch123>or are still images enough?
15:22<Zuu>It needs motion. Some websites use animated gifs with a low frame rate as a compromise
15:23<frosch123>hmm, actually what is the point of sign language on the internet?
15:24<frosch123>is there a relevant number of people who can signs, but not read text?
15:24<The_Dude>most of the internet it that way
15:26<Zuu>The point is that many deaf people has sign language as their first language. A website with written text will then be in their second language.
15:26<Zuu>Eg. the same reason why there is a german TTD forums and not all germans use the english forum.
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15:27<The_Dude>oh, really, there is german ttd forum, quite military layout :D
15:27<frosch123>hmm, yeah, i always forget that there is no relation between sign and written text as between text and voice
15:28<andythenorth>sign language is quite involved to translate too
15:28*andythenorth has been involved in a few sign language projects
15:28<The_Dude>2nd most view thread: Probleme mit OpenTTD
15:29<@Alberth>that's normal with every forum :)
15:30<@Alberth>people never post when it works as expected :)
15:30<Zuu>- I have a problem, OpenTTD works just as I want :-)
15:30<frosch123>Alberth: nope, off-topic should at least double problems section
15:31<@Alberth>inclusive or exclusive the games? :)
15:31<frosch123>i don't dare to check :)
15:32<The_Dude>on ttforums, problem thread is 4th out of 5th, that's nice
15:32<@Alberth>The_Dude: many people post in general openttd
15:32<andythenorth>is it nap time yet?
15:32*andythenorth is very tired
15:33-!-Levent [~oftc-webi@46.2.184.98] has joined #openttd
15:33<@Alberth>nap time is always, especially when it is hot, and you are out of the sun
15:36<Levent>hey there...
15:37*andythenorth plays some more of a cdist game
15:37<andythenorth>I'm never going to manage to clear all PAX stations right?
15:37<andythenorth>it's too hard
15:38<The_Dude>any other ideas with my WITHOUT_ICU problem?
15:39<Levent>whats diffrence between cargo distribution and cargo destinations may i ask...
15:41<frosch123>the order of cargo production and assigning targets
15:41<andythenorth> one is in trunk
15:41<andythenorth>the other is not
15:41<frosch123>cdist produces cargo first, then ships them
15:42<frosch123>cdest assigns targets first, then produces accoding to what is reachable
15:42<Zuu>cdist choose one of the reachable destinations
15:42<Zuu>cdest discard cargo if destination can't be reached
15:43<andythenorth>for the record, having tried cdist, I am a fan
15:44<andythenorth>I miss YACD deciding where cargo wants to go, but cdist is still fun
15:44<Levent>okay, thanks
15:44<frosch123>or to put it more extreme: adding a new line to a network gives you more cargo to transport in cdest, but hurts your existing lines in cdist :p
15:45<Levent>cdest sounds better doesnt it ...
15:45<frosch123>well, it's the same as with everything
15:45<Levent>anyway which one is being played and reachable?
15:45<frosch123>if you know too much about the game mechanics, the game becomes boring :)
15:46-!-supermop [~daniel_er@rrcs-24-105-140-5.nyc.biz.rr.com] has joined #openttd
15:46<frosch123>cdist/cdest difference does not matter as long as you do not know about the difference :p
15:46<frosch123>other than that, you can still add production levels depending on target number or whatever
15:46<frosch123>it's just not done :)
15:46<Levent>i do know much i think, not the code but played over 5 years in Clanmega etc (rip)
15:46<+glx>the goal is the same for both
15:47<frosch123>if you want to get rid of all fun playing ottd, you should read the game mechanics page on the wiki :p
15:47<Levent>x) it becomes like chess ehe?
15:47<andythenorth>autorefit is 'broken' in order gui btw
15:47<frosch123>playing for 5 years gives you a theory, but not the certainty of reading the code
15:48<andythenorth>there's no obvious way to remove an autorefit order
15:48<@Alberth>worse, chess is too complicated to predict
15:48<frosch123>andythenorth: isn't "ctrl" obvious? :p
15:48<andythenorth>ctrl does it? :o
15:48<frosch123>even the tooltip says so :)
15:49<andythenorth>oic
15:49<Levent>whats left fun for me is realism... and i miss clanmega, we used to play cargodist with infrashare n shitloads of plugins n industries :/ searching something similar for a year or two... ?
15:49<+glx>andythenorth: rule number one: try with ctrl ;)
15:50<andythenorth>meh
15:50<andythenorth>ctrl modifier on a drop down menu is ugly
15:50<+glx>the key for many "hidden" features
15:55<Eddi|zuHause>frosch123: that's like saying "decryption is too easy if you know the code"
15:57<Levent>lol btw are you frosch, that one is a main coder for Openttd ?
16:02<frosch123>no, i am not the main coder of openttd
16:03<frosch123>but every person with the name of a dev in this channel, is the actual dev
16:03<frosch123>or we would have kicked them :p
16:03*Rubidium isn't the main coder either
16:04<+glx>and banned frosch123 ;)
16:05<Eddi|zuHause>we should devise some punishment for when TrueBrain impersonated planetmaker :p
16:06<+glx>was probably easy to detect :)
16:07<Eddi|zuHause>verz easilz because of the wrong kezboard lazout :p
16:07<+glx>but then we can't speak via the bot either
16:08<@DorpsGek>like this
16:08<Zuu>If anyone would have tried my keyboard, only 'a' and 'm' would be on the usual place :-)
16:08<@Alberth>perhaps if you turn the keyboard 180 degrees? :)
16:08<+glx>azerty gives nice result too
16:09<frosch123>Zuu: dvorak?
16:09<Zuu>Yeah
16:09<Zuu>A swedish variant with the bonus of placing most programming characters on AltGr+[a-z]
16:10<andythenorth>hmm, losing my evening to this cdist game :P
16:10<frosch123>never used dvorak, but with most us-style keyboard i have most trouble with the return key
16:11<frosch123>i always hit |\
16:11<+glx>it's too small :)
16:11<+glx>like backspace on some laptops
16:11<Zuu>I never had that problem since I bought my kinesis keyboard. :-)
16:12<Eddi|zuHause>the thing i hate most about american layout is that + requires shift
16:12<@Alberth>use numerical + :)
16:13<Zuu>My only problem with kinesis contoured is that it is not exactly portable.
16:13<Levent>ditto... and btw, no one knows a nice cargodi(e)st game with plugins ? x(
16:13<andythenorth>CHIPS would be better if not all tiles showed identical amounts of cargo waiting
16:14<Zuu>Levent: Trunk with some NewGRFs and a nice Game Script
16:14<andythenorth>it's very silly when all tiles in a large station change at once
16:14<andythenorth>I think ISR fixes it in newgrf?
16:14<dihedral>oi
16:14<@Alberth>Levent: nocargoal?
16:16<andythenorth>cdist makes distributing cargos like food much more interesting
16:17<@Alberth>or pax :)
16:17<andythenorth>indeed
16:17<@Alberth>regular cargoes are less interesting for cdist, you think?
16:17*Alberth hasn't really tried town-ish stuff with cdist
16:18<Levent>nah not al :( ah maybe nothing like i want left in there
16:18<andythenorth>regular cargos - it's nice not to have to set transfer orders
16:18<andythenorth>but the networks I build for primary -> secondary are many -> one
16:19<andythenorth>so cdist doesn't change gameplay much
16:19<Levent>lol can we have cdest for pax n mail but normal for else?
16:19<Zuu>yes
16:19<Levent>cuz, like lumber... lumbers wont complain if they go to wrong factory x)
16:20<frosch123>yeah, i always take the packages of my neighbours
16:20<frosch123>the package won't complain
16:22<@Alberth>Levent: the factory that is supposed to receive them is :)
16:22<Zuu>When you enable cdist, you do it for groups of cargoes.
16:22<andythenorth>cdist also makes transfers much easier ;)
16:22<Zuu>IIRC: Passengers, mail, express and other cargoes
16:22*andythenorth wonders what cdist will do with FIRS supplies :(
16:22<andythenorth>I guess I have to try it
16:22<Levent>FIRS is the best industries gif we have in hand?
16:22<andythenorth>no comment
16:22<Zuu>It depends on what you like.
16:22<@Alberth>I tried a game or two to move a single cargo like coal or wood for all primary -> all secondary, but my industry density is too low
16:22<@Alberth>so you have to move things a loooong way
16:22<Levent>so if you wont supply whole chain, it wont work?
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16:28<dihedral>does anybody know what time Belugas should arrive back home?
16:28<dihedral>Rubidium, TrueBrain ^
16:29<frosch123>according to rb, just now
16:29<dihedral>uh
16:30<@Rubidium>dihedral: what's home exactly?
16:30<Prof_Frink>A hatstand.
16:30<@Rubidium>the house he usually resides in? The airport near the town he usually resides in? The state/province he usually resides in? Or the country he usually resides in?
16:31-!-Devroush [~dennis@91.179.94.20] has joined #openttd
16:31<Prof_Frink>Home is where you hang your hat. Where you hang your hat is a hatstand.
16:31<frosch123>afaik he never left the body he usually resides in
16:32-!-Devroush367 [~dennis@91.179.94.20] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
16:33<@Rubidium>cases 2-4 are respectively in about 20 minutes, about 10 minutes ago, about 100 minutes ago
16:35-!-HerzogDeXtEr [~Flex@i59F6CBA3.versanet.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
16:37<dihedral>the house he owns ;-)
16:37<@Rubidium>I reckon in about 2.5 hours or thereabouts
16:38<frosch123>night
16:38-!-frosch123 [~frosch@frnk-590d5d15.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: be yourself, except: if you have the opportunity to be a unicorn, then be a unicorn]
16:38<@Rubidium>night frosch123
16:39-!-DarkAceZ [~BillyMays@50.107.55.36] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
16:39-!-amiller [~amiller@md15a36d0.tmodns.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
16:41*Rubidium likes flightaware's flight tracker ;)
16:42<dihedral>hehe
16:42<dihedral>Thanks for the information
16:42<dihedral>in 2.5h i shall be asleep
16:42<dihedral>hopefully
16:42<andythenorth>+1
16:43-!-DarkAceZ [~BillyMays@50.107.55.36] has joined #openttd
16:44<@Rubidium>+2 ;)
16:44<Eddi|zuHause>sleep is overrated
16:44<andythenorth>so the problem with auto-refit (any available)...
16:44<andythenorth>if none of cargo x is waiting, the vehicle won't refit to it
16:45<andythenorth>and if no vehicles carrying x have visited the station, then the station won't be supplied with the cargo
16:45<supermop>yeah
16:45<andythenorth>chicken.egg() or egg.chicken() ?
16:45<supermop>you need to manually ride along the first time
16:45<andythenorth>boooooring
16:45<supermop>i just set it to full load
16:45<@Rubidium>andythenorth: then toggle the setting about pushing stuff to stations even if there is no demand
16:45<supermop>then skip after its loaded >0%
16:45<supermop>then re do the orders
16:46<Eddi|zuHause>just make sure the first run has cars refit to every possible cargo
16:47<andythenorth>pushing to stations without demand could be win
16:48<andythenorth>does cdist affect 'move cargo to station' stuff?
16:48*andythenorth is also playing with a stupid industry newgrf that increases station ratings a lot :P
16:54<@Rubidium>the whale has landed
16:54<@Rubidium>now he's on his own ;)
16:55<Eddi|zuHause>no, cargodist only applies after cargo appears at the station
16:55*andythenorth changes the setting
16:55<andythenorth>now my stations will fill up with unwanted crap :)
16:56<supermop>mail everywhere
16:58<andythenorth>hmm
16:59<andythenorth>I need to exclude a cargo from 'auto refit available'
16:59<andythenorth>:(
16:59<andythenorth>railroad tycoon had a gui for that
17:01-!-oskari89 [oskari89@62-241-226-106.bb.dnainternet.fi] has quit []
17:02<andythenorth>does auto refit prefer to stick to current refit?
17:06<andythenorth>oic, the cargo is already on the vehicle, for a destination further along the order list
17:08<andythenorth>good night
17:08-!-andythenorth [~Andy@cpc22-aztw25-2-0-cust272.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: andythenorth]
17:09-!-fjb [~frank@000158aa.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd
17:09<fjb>Moin
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17:25<@Alberth>moin, and good night :)
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17:26<dihedral>Rubidium, apparently it's a type of dolphin :-P
17:26<@SmatZ>yay dih :-)
17:27<@SmatZ>hello all ;-)
17:27<dihedral>hello SmatZ :-)
17:27<dihedral>how are you? have not seen you 'active' for some time ... probably due to not being active myself :-D
17:27<@SmatZ>seems you are married now, wow :-)
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17:27-!-George is now known as Guest1622
17:27-!-George|2 is now known as George
17:28<@SmatZ>I am not really active nowadays, yes :-( it's been like that for quite some time now...
17:28<@SmatZ>too much work
17:28<@SmatZ>I guess
17:30<dihedral>yes, got married in the mean time :-) but the cat is out of the house ... :-D
17:30-!-Progman [~progman@p57A185EC.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
17:31<@SmatZ>warm congratulations from me :)
17:31<@SmatZ>wish I were so lucky...
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17:41<dihedral>thank you
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17:56<NGC3982>I watched Prometheus
17:56<NGC3982>My eyes :(
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17:59<Wolf01>'night
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18:14-!-megakacktus [~debussy@67-6-68-247.mpls.qwest.net] has left #openttd [Live long and prosper]
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18:24<megakacktus>I'd like to help develop OpenTTD but I have very little real developing experience (only a smattering of Java and just a bit of C). naturally the codebase of OpenTTD looks very big and confusing to novice like myself
18:24-!-valhallasw [~valhallas@5070A0D5.static.ziggozakelijk.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
18:24<megakacktus>I'm just wondering, where would you folks suggest I begin?
18:27<megakacktus>I understand it's written in C++, which should not be too difficult to pick up considering I can get by in java
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18:37<Eddi|zuHause>megakacktus: you can pick one of the "beginner" tasks from the wiki, or follow the recent development, which feature changed code in which places
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18:38<megakacktus>Isn't there an RSS feed for recent commits?
18:38<Zuu>Wiki todo: http://wiki.openttd.org/Todo_list
18:38<Eddi|zuHause>probably on http://vcs.openttd.org somewhere
18:39<Zuu>Yeah, I subscribe to an RSS on that page.
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18:44<dihedral>good job RAM is no problem in todays world
18:45<dihedral>i really dislike the fact of my java app eating 32MB to 36MB
18:48<dihedral>ap+ has a much smaller fingerprint :-P
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18:56<Xaroth|Work>dihedral: java is known for that :|
18:56<Xaroth|Work>if something can whore your ram, it's java
18:56<Xaroth|Work>and .net .. but not -that- bad
18:57<dihedral>the only good thing about java: you know where your resources are going to
18:58<Xaroth|Work>yeah, down the drain :P
18:59<Eddi|zuHause>my first computer had 1.6MB RAM
18:59<Eddi|zuHause>less than the 2MB required to run win 3.1 in 386 mode
18:59<NGC3982>Yey.
19:00<Eddi|zuHause>i think we upgraded to 8MB then
19:00<krinn>lucky you, mine was 256k
19:03<dihedral>i had once upgraded my 486dx2 90MHz to 24MB of RAM :-P
19:06<krinn>i was getting mad because i don't really remember well, but i think it was dos 3.1 takes too much ram, while i couldn't use dos 3.0 or something that was lighter but didn't handle my hdd (a whoopy 10m)
19:07<krinn>it was hard days, booting from floppy because dos takes too much ram :)
19:13<Eddi|zuHause>my first HDD was 80MB, complemented with a 420MB one later
19:14<Eddi|zuHause>which turned out to be a big problem because there was no IDE slot left to attach a CD drive, and we didn't manage to get the CD port on the sound card working (not sure if they needed special devices or special drivers)
19:15<Eddi|zuHause>and there was no internet to google CD drive problems
19:15<NGC3982>I used to drive a bike.
19:15<NGC3982>Sorry.
19:15<NGC3982>I used to ride a bike.
19:17<dihedral>the cd port on the sound card was only for playing music cd's
19:18<krinn>Eddi|zuHause, didn't use minitel with RS232 to browse BBS ? (at the lightning speed of the minitel, of course at the amazing prize of france telecom), pure joy
19:19<Eddi|zuHause>dihedral: not the 4-pin one, there was a complete 40-pin IDE port on the sound card
19:19-!-Aristide [~quassel@37.175.210.42] has joined #openttd
19:19<Aristide>o/
19:19<Aristide>I have proken Wireless settings on my phone xD
19:19<Aristide>broken *
19:19<dihedral>you had an odd sound card :-D
19:19<krinn>soundblaster had that
19:20<Eddi|zuHause>that was pretty standard back then
19:20<Aristide>MIDI > All
19:20<Eddi|zuHause>it was even one of the higher end sound cards
19:20<krinn>yes, soundblaster pro or AWE32 got cd pin
19:20<Aristide>http://sphotos-f.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/p206x206/534147_283860685022668_1488877608_n.jpg
19:20<Eddi|zuHause>soundblaster AWE 32 (but not the gold one)
19:20<Aristide><3
19:22<Eddi|zuHause>hm... http://www.ebay.de/itm/Modell-DR-18-201-in-Spur-II-Masstab-1-22-5-Spurweite-64mm-Unikat-/111126432999?pt=DE_Modellbau_Modelleisenbahnen&hash=item19dfa6cce7
19:23<Aristide>So, I must reboot my phone o/
19:23<Aristide>°+°
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19:23<krinn>erf 30k but it look in real good state
19:24<krinn>128 Beobachter <- bids ?
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19:26<Aristide>... Update failure
19:26<Eddi|zuHause>krinn: no, "Beobachter" is just people who bookmarked the auction
19:27<Eddi|zuHause>krinn: says one person suggested a price
19:29<dihedral>i had a soundblaster, and it did not have that
19:29<NGC3982>Seriosly, Sweden is having the heat wave of it's life.
19:30<NGC3982>It's half past two in the morning, and it's still 26C outside.
19:30<krinn>dihedral, depend on model, pro & awe32 did, i think they drop it for models that comes out after
19:30<dihedral>funny thing is, i had the mentioned models ;-)
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19:30<dihedral>i had no ide on the sound card
19:31<krinn>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Ct1600.jpg
19:31<dihedral>i am guessing my soundblaster card was newer :-P
19:31<dihedral>yes krinn i just read about the ide connectors
19:33<Eddi|zuHause>my card even had 3 different kinds of connectors on it
19:33<krinn>sblive was last one i own, after that gravis and keep it until my mb didn't had an iso to put it on :(
19:34<krinn>since then only onboard m/b sound
19:35<dihedral>anyway - it is too late for me, i will need my rest
19:35<dihedral>good night :-)
19:35<krinn>night :)
19:36<Eddi|zuHause>says "mitsumi drive", "creative/panasonic drive" and "sony drive" on the different connectors
19:37<krinn>mitsumi was my first cd :P
19:37<krinn>sold bundle with the starwars thing
19:39<krinn>trying to remember what was that game name, it was amazing (by that time)
19:41<krinn>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6udtX2bTikI lol found it
19:41<Eddi|zuHause>hm, the first star wars game i had was "rebel assault"
19:42<krinn>lol yes Eddi|zuHause it was that one i get in the bundle
19:44<Aristide>Cat bus http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_mdvvnk0TM11rvydco.gif lol
19:45<krinn>:p cute cats
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19:46<Aristide>:)
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19:52<Aristide>krinn: Reminds me .. . This is the financial crisis. ...
19:52<Aristide>Or not ?
19:52<Aristide>I don't know where TCL get much money ...
19:53<Aristide>2011 : 80 New Citelis 18, 2012 : 58 New Citelis 12 and 6 Citelis 18, 2013 : 50 citelis 12 and 10 Citelis 18 : 2014 : 60 news Citelis 12
19:54<krinn>i dunno what is TCL?
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19:58<Aristide>Bad wifi ><
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20:11<krinn>night all
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21:58<SamanthaD>sup, y'all
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---Logclosed Tue Jul 30 00:00:32 2013