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#openttd IRC Logs for 2013-07-30

---Logopened Tue Jul 30 00:00:32 2013
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02:21<dihedral>mornings
02:23<SamanthaD>morning!
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02:31<@Alberth>o/ all
02:34<dihedral>o/
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02:37<LordAro>moin
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02:43<SamanthaD>\o
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03:00<Xaroth|Work>o/
03:01<@planetmaker>moin
03:04<dihedral>mogning pm
03:04<dihedral>ops
03:05<dihedral>*morning
03:17<peter1139>yup
03:18<peter1139>hmm, wish i knew where my windows 7 media was :S
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03:44<SamanthaD>peter1139: It magically turned into a Debian install disk?
03:44<peter1139>odd, i don't use CDRWs :)
03:45<SamanthaD>I have a couple ancient machines that don't boot USB
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03:59<dihedral>planetmaker, is there some type of specification what you guys require from an autopilot replacement?
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04:01<Xaroth|Work>it has to relay chat
04:01<Xaroth|Work>it has to give ops rcon access
04:01<Xaroth|Work>it has to log commands
04:01<Xaroth|Work>and.. something
04:02<dihedral>the first 3 are simple and already implemented in grapes ... i want to know the stuff that is not yet implemented :-P
04:02<dihedral>password being set is also one, i know that
04:02<Xaroth|Work>ah, he wanted it to work from within their irc bot
04:04<@planetmaker>well. There's requirements and nice-to-haves :-)
04:04<SamanthaD>it has to electrocute spammers
04:05<@planetmaker>irc bridge yes. rcon for ops via irc bridge. command logging.
04:05<dihedral>that's a pluggin you can write yourself :-P
04:05<dihedral>i can even give you a separate channel that mirrors the console of openttd :-P
04:05<V453000>that would be cute
04:05<@planetmaker>too many channels will make it go unnoticed
04:05<dihedral>all messages are then rcon commands :-P
04:06<V453000>oh D:
04:06<dihedral>it's basically a remote console on irc :-D
04:06<SamanthaD>sounds insecure... better wrap it in an SSH tunnel
04:07<dihedral>blah
04:07<@planetmaker>can we have something like we have now, cycling of passwords for server? And a command to retrieve it?
04:08<SamanthaD>why replace the system at all? it kinda sounds like people like it the way it is
04:08<@planetmaker>they don't
04:08<SamanthaD>ah
04:08<SamanthaD>then burn it :3
04:09<@planetmaker>we did
04:09<SamanthaD>fwoosh
04:09<dihedral>SamanthaD, to be very direct - i cannot remember asking you
04:09<dihedral>and i will not engage in that discussion again
04:09<dihedral>sorry
04:09<SamanthaD>dihedral: sorry if I offended you. it wasn't intentional
04:10<@planetmaker>your comments simply showed you did not understand what the conversation's topic ;-)
04:11<dihedral>SamanthaD, i was not offended, just felt like it was not helpful to answer my question ;-)
04:12<@planetmaker>dihedral, as I found in the weekend you know ap+'s capabilities quite well :-)
04:12<dihedral>hehe
04:12<dihedral>i know them off by heart :-D
04:12<@planetmaker>so basically what we need is a drop-in replacement, enhanced by command logging
04:13<@planetmaker>once that runs, it will need testing. And I'm sure *then* we'll come up with a zillion requests. But before... it's difficult
04:14<@planetmaker>sorry, biab. Meeting.
04:14<Eddi|zuHause>exporting stats (game year, company value, ...) to a website :)
04:22<dihedral>do you want command logging to go to a file per user? :-P
04:23<@planetmaker>nah. too tedious
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04:36<LordAro>i want one: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/programmes/click_online/9774380.stm
04:38-!-cyph3r [~Miranda@ip-213-220-193-253.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #openttd
04:44<Eddi|zuHause>"8k pixels are enough for everybody"?
04:45<NGC3982>Morning
04:45<SamanthaD>morning
04:51<wakou2>Hallo Otters!
04:51-!-Devroush [~dennis@91.179.94.20] has joined #openttd
04:52<wakou2>Is there a way to find out who wrote a page on the wiki (gameplay manual)
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04:52<@Alberth>look at the history of the page, but I'd be surprised if there is just one author
04:53<wakou2>Alberth: TY..
04:55<wakou2>Alberth: You are right, many people! But Andythenorth the most recent, so I can talk to him here, if I need any collaboration....
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04:56<@Alberth>wakou2: it much better to just ask the question here in general, you'll get better answers faster
04:56<dihedral>a collegue of mine is possibly interested in writing a webinterface for grapes :-)
04:57<LordAro>compilation is always so fast when i remember -j5 :)
04:57-!-Devroush367 [~dennis@91.179.94.20] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
04:57<dihedral>wakou2, you can look at the diff to find out who edited the area you are interested in ;-)
04:57<@Alberth>LordAro: export MAKEFLAGS=-j5
04:57<LordAro>that might be worth remembering :)
04:58<@Alberth>better, add it to your shell init :)
04:58<wakou2>Alberth: I was thinking of editing/rewriting a page and did not want to offend. If I sandbox my new version and then ask Andythenorth to review before publishing?
04:59<LordAro>or anyone the page isn't andy's exclusively
04:59<LordAro>s/anyone/anyone - /
04:59<wakou2>LordAro: yes
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05:00<@Alberth>wakou2: just improve the page, nobody is owner of the wiki
05:00<@Alberth>no need to ask permission
05:00<LordAro>"/home/lordaro/coding/ottd/cleantrunk/src/rev.cpp:58:41: error: expected primary-expression before ‘;’ token \n const byte _openttd_revision_modified = ;" <-- umm, help?
05:00<LordAro>revision detection seems a bit borken
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05:01<@Alberth>you forgot to run configure?
05:01<LordAro>nope
05:01<wakou2>I know, but I don't want to offend anyone by undoing their hard work..
05:01<LordAro>i've run make clean and make mrproper too
05:02<@Alberth>what happens if you run ./findversion.sh ?
05:03<LordAro>"h3b2f9d04M 25633 2 h3b2f9d04M"
05:03<LordAro>however, it's not modified :L
05:04<@Alberth>hg will probably think otherwise :)
05:04<@Alberth>but that output looks fine to me
05:06<LordAro>i'll try redoing the checkout - it's the same from the old pc
05:10<LordAro>that's better
05:10<@planetmaker>LordAro, make reconfigure && make -jX might have done the trick
05:10<@planetmaker>or maybe simply a hg up C
05:10<@planetmaker>hg up -C
05:11<LordAro>eh, a re-clone seemed to work :)
05:11<LordAro>oh, the bootstrap startup looks nice - i don't believe i've seen it before :L
05:12<@planetmaker>you won't, if you have like base sets present
05:12<@planetmaker>don't you have that stuff in ~/.openttd ?!
05:12<LordAro>i haven't transferred it yet :L
05:13<LordAro>there you go - all 1.5GB tranferred
05:13<peter1139>GT610 installed
05:14<peter1139>shitty cheap modern card
05:14<peter1139>suppose it's better than dodgy pixels everywhere due to the memory being cooked
05:14<dihedral>peter1139, how did you manage that??
05:14<dihedral>by the way - i did miss you during the weekend
05:16<Eddi|zuHause>my .openttd is 2.4GB
05:16<peter1139>well it was 40 degrees in the office, so...
05:16<peter1139>you didn't miss me, i just wasn't there :p
05:16<LordAro>Eddi: show off :P
05:20<Eddi|zuHause>hm, 100MB in bananas stuff, 250MB in non-bananas stuff, 200MB in screenshots, 750MB in development stuff and 1.1GB in savegames
05:21<NGC3982>1.1GB of savegames?
05:22<NGC3982>Many of them, or huge maps? :)
05:22<LordAro>you keep development stuff in .openttd?
05:22<Eddi|zuHause>grf development stuff, yes
05:22<dihedral>Eddi never throws away savegames
05:23<dihedral>but you should ask him how big his irc logs are :-P
05:23<dihedral>oh - and peter1139 never throws away a patch :-D
05:23<dihedral>but can never find them either
05:23<Eddi|zuHause>that's not fair, they are compressed :)
05:23<dihedral>:-)
05:23<dihedral>the savegames are too
05:23<peter1139>my patches are compressed too
05:25*LordAro never throws away savegames either - still has some from TTD
05:25<Eddi|zuHause>hm, over 1/3 of my savegame space accounts to one game
05:28<Eddi|zuHause>yes, i still have some TTO savegames, but not as many as i'd like
05:30*peter1139 ponders finding his TTO media and dosbox
05:30<Eddi|zuHause>openttd can load TTO savegames now :)
05:31<peter1139>it's not TTO though
05:31<Eddi|zuHause>make a setting!!
05:32<peter1139>pretty sure that's not possible :(
05:34<Eddi|zuHause>on my last TTO game i created a system how to have one-way rails
05:35<Eddi|zuHause>(without one-way signals)
05:35<Eddi|zuHause>it was fairly unstable though, as trains tend to turn around when they are stuck, breaking the system
05:41<SamanthaD>Eddi: how did it work?
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05:55<Eddi|zuHause>SamanthaD: basically by abusing the pathfinder so at the end station it would always go into the "right" track
05:55<SamanthaD>aaaah, clever!
05:56<SamanthaD>I'm trying to figure out how cargodist works... I'm dissatisfied that it doesn't understand unload orders
05:56<Eddi|zuHause>it does, you should just combine "unload" with "no loading"
05:56<SamanthaD>I want to be able to run local and express trains on the same line and not have passengers jump on the first local train that comes along
05:57<SamanthaD>nono, I want to give the train orders to load but not unload
05:57<SamanthaD>oh wait... I just figured out the flaw in my thingy
05:57<Eddi|zuHause>that is "no unloading" then
05:57<SamanthaD>*headdesks*
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05:57<SamanthaD>yeah, but won't packets of cargo going to that station still load on that train?
05:57<Eddi|zuHause>no
05:57<SamanthaD>oh, okay
05:57<SamanthaD>thanks!
05:58<SamanthaD>now I feel silly :p
05:58<@Alberth>if it does, it's a bug, imho
05:58<dihedral>if there are passengers who are at the station they want to go to... that really would be odd
05:58<wakou2>Is the game shown in the spalsh screen avaiable anywhere as a saved game?
05:59<Eddi|zuHause>wakou2: yes, rename opntitle.dat to .sav
05:59<wakou2>:) TY
05:59<SamanthaD>point is, I want to run trains on parallel tracks that go through, say, stations A -> B -> C -> D but one of the trains goes directly from A -> D
05:59<SamanthaD>I don't want passengers jumping on the "local" train to go from A -> D
05:59<peter1139>hmm, gt610 runs minecraft well enough
05:59<peter1139>despite being slow 'n stuff
06:00<Eddi|zuHause>wakou2: you can also put any of your savegames as the opening screen that way, but it can't have NewGRFs loaded
06:01<Eddi|zuHause>SamanthaD: usually you drown in passengers anyway
06:01<MNIM>sounds cruel
06:02<SamanthaD>Eddi: Yeah, but I'd rather not have my local trains clogged up with express passengers and I'd rather not have my express trains starved from local trains
06:02<SamanthaD>I'm playing Dutch Trainset 2 and metro trains can hold about 2x the people as normal trains
06:06<wakou2>Eddi|zuHause: Thanks for that! I don't why I want to do it, but I am very pleased that I can!
06:07<Eddi|zuHause>wakou2: we occasionally run competitions on which savegame should be the next title game :)
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06:24<krinn>hi
06:25<krinn>do you know if someone has made wagons that are unusuable with a train engine when refit to this but usable refit as that?
06:25<krinn>(assuming the train can pull this & that)
06:26<SamanthaD>most engines can pull any wagon
06:26<SamanthaD>with the exception of some EMU and DMUs in various NewGRFs
06:27<Eddi|zuHause>krinn: the xUSSR set may have some crazy stuff like that :p
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06:29<V453000>hm I guess attach logic can be decided by cargo type? :D
06:30<SamanthaD>krinn: were you planning on making a GRF that does that?
06:30<Eddi|zuHause>... or by moon phase :p
06:30<krinn>SamanthaD, lol no
06:30<SamanthaD>I'm going to have to check out this xUSSR set
06:31<krinn>http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=29&t=14582
06:31<SamanthaD>yup, I have to wait for my OpenTTD to recompile though
06:31<SamanthaD>it crashed but I think it might have been due to some crazy mods I made to it
06:32<krinn>ok so it's safe to assume a wagon usable with train X will be ok even if refit
06:32<SamanthaD>yup
06:34<Eddi|zuHause>krinn: it's probably ok, but you might want some fallback mechanism for when it really breaks
06:35<Eddi|zuHause>krinn: also, attaching and then refitting, or refitting and then attaching might yield different results
06:35<Eddi|zuHause>like, the DBSetXL has some refit options that are only avaiable when attached to a certain engine
06:36<krinn>i have it, record any wagon as compatible, on failure clear it from the list...
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06:37<krinn>it's amazing newGRF author never do any documentation !
06:39<@Alberth>how much documentation do you do?
06:40<Eddi|zuHause>the DBSetXL has a moderately comprehensive readme
06:40<krinn>no much just the one that says : this is special
06:41<Eddi|zuHause>it also has a bug when wagon speed limits are disabled, the cargo wagons disappear in the late game :p
06:41<@Alberth>krinn: just like newgrf authors thus :)
06:42<krinn>look at 2CC trainset v2.0.0 beta 5
06:42<krinn>no readme :)
06:43<krinn>ah ok it says check readme for parameters, so he might have just forget to include it or openttd doesn't see it's readme as one
06:44<LordAro>latter is quite likely - iirc that version is before ottd could view readmnes
06:47<Aristide>Hi everybody )
06:47<@planetmaker><krinn> no much just the one that says : this is special <-- it's generally assumed by "realistic" sets that you know the entire history ;-)
06:47<Aristide>:)
06:48<SamanthaD>glee!! I didn't need to patch the game!
06:48<krinn>planetmaker, at least i understand that point
06:49<SamanthaD>cargo avoids trains that have more stops between the beginning and end of their paths
06:50<krinn>planetmaker, lol but how player knows it's a realistic set if not wrote anywhere ?
06:50<@planetmaker>krinn, generally every set which bears a country or company name, is realistic :-)
06:50<@planetmaker>to one degree or another
06:50<@planetmaker>which boils down to "all but very few" ;-)
06:51<@planetmaker>the question is whether they enforce exact consist management (and deny any consist which was not seen) or allow you to combine the single vehicles to trains like you desire
06:52<SamanthaD>I prefer the latter, honestly
06:52<@planetmaker>Personally I find the first type rather annoying while I like the latter as it suits the game better - and still allows to limit oneself to anything which one thinks is comensumerable with history
06:52<SamanthaD>though, I do like to roleplay :3
06:53<krinn>i just prefer if the rule is write somewhere : i'm not against special rules : train Z work only when moon is high with wagon Y, while Y can only work if there no rain
06:54<krinn>but if none tell there own rules for a set, it would imply i known all set special features to handle them
06:54<krinn>and you end up here with : "anyone know if a special rule exists that does this or that"
06:56<krinn>it's (for me) as dumb as making a GS (let's say nocargoal) that claim general rules (handling of cargo like it does) but nowhere in readme you see the special rule hide in it : if any player use train Z i raise cargo wish * 100
06:56<krinn>that's what newGRF keep doing and why i say "no doc!"
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07:02<SamanthaD>wow... this xUSSR trainset is really nice <3
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07:05<@Alberth>krinn: imho, it's a good sign how much the author is thinking about his users while making the set
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07:09<SamanthaD>what really turns me on to a trainset is when the author includes locomotives they *KNOW* no player would ever use in a "serious" game
07:09<SamanthaD>like shunting locomotives
07:10<krinn>well, i've seen plenty already SamanthaD :)
07:10<SamanthaD>me too
07:11<krinn>look at DB310 kof II not sure if anyone will use it :P
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07:12<SamanthaD>krinn: from what set?
07:12<Eddi|zuHause>SamanthaD: i frequently miss "shunting" type engines for small feeder systems
07:13<krinn>SamanthaD, must be 2cc
07:13<SamanthaD>ah yes...
07:13<SamanthaD>I use shunting engines for little "branch" lines just for the roleplay factor
07:14<Eddi|zuHause>i don't think there actually existed a Köf II. only a Kö II
07:15<krinn>http://wiki.openttd.org/2cc_TrainSet#Table_of_included_vehicles (1st one at diesel+gas)
07:16<SamanthaD>by the way, am I the only person having trouble with blinking flags in 2cc?
07:16<Eddi|zuHause>hm, there do seem to exist a few Köf II
07:19<krinn>i think many engines are too dumb to be usable, if you look from a country base point of view, it's ok, the country built is own engine for tech or money even poorer than what exists already. But in openttd that rule is bias, because player have access to any engine and not limited to his own country engine
07:21<Eddi|zuHause>(K stands for "small engine", ö stands for "diesel powered" (opposing to b for "gasoline powered") and f stands for "hydraulic gearing" (no letter for mechanical gearing))
07:21<krinn>Eddi|zuHause, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DRG_Kleinlokomotive_Class_II
07:22<Eddi|zuHause>yes, those
07:22<krinn>foot brake, rebuilt into 322-324 stopped in February 1974 (love that one!)
07:22<Eddi|zuHause>there's power classes I, II and III
07:22<Eddi|zuHause>that's a mistranslation, it should be "finished" instad of "stopped"
07:25<krinn>as i said, if not country base, that choice to build that 1974 version is dumb, by that time sure plenty better loco exist (and as openttd offer them, no play will ever use that 1974 version)
07:25<krinn>grrrr s/play/player
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07:30<V453000>anybody knows some maps which have height values? I need to get info on how high/low some points on the map are, with precision of idk, +-0,5m
07:32<SamanthaD>of what region, V453000?
07:32<V453000>czech republic - central europe
07:35<SamanthaD>hmm...https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:Topographic_maps_of_the_Czech_Republic
07:36<SamanthaD>https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:Topographic_maps_of_the_Czech_Republic
07:36<SamanthaD>will that do ya?
07:37<TrueBrain>VMAP0 ;)
07:37<SamanthaD>what does VMAPO meon?
07:38<peter1139>VMAP0!
07:38<SamanthaD>OH!
07:38<TrueBrain>vmap0 is a 90m resolution height map of the whole world
07:38<SamanthaD>oh wow... this is nifty!
07:39<TrueBrain>not sure if height is within 0.5m accuarcy
07:39<TrueBrain>I am not sure that is even possible with modern technology
07:39<TrueBrain>but okay ;)
07:40<V453000>hm :)
07:40<V453000>thanks anyway :P lets see what I get
07:40<V453000>http://www.daftlogic.com/sandbox-google-maps-find-altitude.htm looks interesting to me so far
07:41<SamanthaD>TrueBrain: it most certainly is possible
07:41<SamanthaD>TrueBrain: and VMAP1 apparently is accurate to 0.5-2m
07:41<SamanthaD>but I dunno if you can get a VMAP1 of Czech Republic
07:41<Eddi|zuHause>should just put a GPS on a known triangulation point, go around with a second GPS, and compare the difference
07:41*peter1139 ponders ditching his windows vista install
07:41<TrueBrain>it is not possible, in fact, VMAP0 (and 1) state that they cannot do that
07:41<peter1139>not sure when it lasted booted...
07:41<TrueBrain>and VMAP1 is _very_ expensive
07:42<krinn>peter1139, at install
07:42<TrueBrain>but it is funny how you managed to contradict yourself in 2 sentences
07:42<peter1139>krinn?
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07:42<krinn><peter1139> not sure when it lasted booted... <krinn> peter1139, at install
07:43<peter1139>oh
07:43<peter1139>no
07:43<krinn>yeah i know it makes no sense :)
07:43<peter1139>hmm, last updated 3 years ago
07:43*krinn is getting a coffee
07:44<@Alberth>krinn: technically, at install, vista was not booting, since it was not installed at that time :p
07:44<TrueBrain>I thought it was funny krinn :D
07:44<SamanthaD>oh good god... earth-info.nga.mil has a postal address to write to if you want the maps
07:44<Eddi|zuHause>http://img.pr0gramm.com/2013/07/lohkn7i.gif
07:45<@Alberth>SamanthaD: you may receive a dead-wood copy map as well :)
07:45<SamanthaD>that cat is not very smart, Eddi...
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07:47<SamanthaD>speaking of animals... I'm not sleeping tonight. For the last month or so I've been hearing a lot of commotion outside my room. I investigated tonight to find three opossums, each as big as my thigh
07:47<SamanthaD>they were not thrilled to have my company
07:48<Eddi|zuHause>there are no oppossums in this part of the world
07:48<krinn>:) got my coffee and my carambar jokes ready
07:50<SamanthaD>Eddi: lucky bastard...
07:50<krinn>where do you live to get opossums next to you ?
07:50<SamanthaD>California
07:51<SamanthaD>and we have the Virginia Opossum here, which are the biggest species
07:51<krinn>i heard german got rancoun as invasive species
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07:52<krinn>well, rancoon :)
07:52<SamanthaD>http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-F7Ue_aRjqFs/TzvsNyBe4LI/AAAAAAAAEuk/n6QOdwDGm3I/s1600/Louise-opossum.jpg
07:52<krinn>or raccoon
07:52<SamanthaD>give you an idea of their size
07:52<SamanthaD>we got raccoon, too
07:53<krinn>holly sh*t ! that's a baby bear size
07:53<SamanthaD>I *KNOW*!
07:53<Eddi|zuHause>never seen those either
07:53<krinn>i was thinking it was like a big rats
07:53<SamanthaD>yes, but a *REALLY* big rat
07:54<krinn>Eddi|zuHause, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Raccoon#Distribution_outside_North_America
07:54<SamanthaD>... with really, really sharp teeth
07:54<SamanthaD>and an eagerness to use them
07:55<Eddi|zuHause>krinn: these red spots are not anywhere close
07:56<SamanthaD>how did the Raccoon get introduced?!
07:56<SamanthaD>it's not like it's a little animal that can stow away on a ship
07:56<krinn>no idea, wiki says two pairs introduce in 1934
07:56*SamanthaD thinks exotic pets
07:56<SamanthaD>I don't know why so many people think that Raccoons are small
07:56<SamanthaD>they're something like the size of a medium sized dog
07:57<krinn>SamanthaD, i think it was for the plet more than exotism
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07:57<SamanthaD>ah! farming
07:57<krinn>pelt
07:57<SamanthaD>though, I have read of people keeping those things as pets
07:57<SamanthaD>why is beyond me
07:57<SamanthaD>they're destructive little buggers
07:57<krinn>1945 when 25 raccoons escaped from a fur farm
07:58<SamanthaD>hmm... let's hope they don't adapt well to the wilderness
07:58<SamanthaD>they're experts at living in cities though
07:58<krinn>saw a doc about invasive species, amazing how stupid the human is, as most of them is directly done by us
07:59<SamanthaD>yeah, and sometimes on purpose
07:59<SamanthaD>my understanding is the mocking bird was introduced deliberately to north america
08:00<@planetmaker>if there was no mocking bird it would need inventing ;-)
08:00<krinn>they spoke about bull toad
08:01<krinn>making 25000 eggs, while common frog do 15000, and of course birds here are adapt to eat frog sized animal, not that bulltoad size : so more eggs and less chance to get eat when reaching a certain size : bulltoad is kicking out common frog from lake
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08:02<SamanthaD>doesn't surprise me
08:02<dihedral>is there bullfrog fighting in the bullfrog arena?
08:03<SamanthaD>what would that even LOOK like?!
08:03<dihedral>green and red
08:03<krinn>and they spoke too about a squirrel from ussr that have 70% chance of carrying a disease for human, and it is allowed to import them as pet
08:03<dihedral>more red than green
08:04<dihedral>krinn, move to england :-P
08:04<SamanthaD>are you bloody serious?!
08:04<SamanthaD>"Meet Mr. Fluffybutt! He brings cuteness and death!"
08:05<krinn>SamanthaD, oh yes, the parasite get contamined by the squirrel (that is safe carrier of the disease) and then can contamine human
08:05<SamanthaD>out of curiosity, do you remember what the parasite was?
08:06<Eddi|zuHause>all hail hypnotoad
08:06<krinn>let me get the name in english, but a tick, it's common parasite for animals here
08:06<SamanthaD>krinn: latin would work just fine
08:06<krinn>then a tick :)
08:06<krinn>acarian familly
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08:07<krinn>http://www.dinosoria.com/sciences/tique.jpg
08:08<krinn>so squirrel have 70% to be carrier, and any "tique" will carry it to human if bite, and they allow import it because it's a cute squirrel
08:08<krinn>we're so dumb :)
08:09<SamanthaD>ah
08:09<SamanthaD>a tick isn't a serious threat to humans though unless they're also carrying lyme disease
08:09<SamanthaD>or plague
08:12<SamanthaD>I was reading in the latest Science News about the introduction of a new species of mosquito into the United States that is causing an outbreak of certain tropical diseases all over the seutheast US
08:13<SamanthaD>they think it came in on used tires
08:13<SamanthaD>why would ANYONE ship used tires overseas?!
08:13<@planetmaker>because they can
08:13<SamanthaD>do we REALLY have a shortage though?!
08:16<krinn>well, if they just stop doing stupid introduction, maybe unwanted ones could be tolerate as mistakes :)
08:18<SamanthaD>the most destructive species, though, are hard to avoid introduction
08:18<@Alberth>more likely, the labour costs overseas are sufficiently lower that it is viable to ship them
08:18<SamanthaD>rats, insects
08:18<Eddi|zuHause>SamanthaD: garbage is generally shipped around the whole world
08:18<@Alberth>we ship everything around the world :)
08:18<Eddi|zuHause>SamanthaD: american garbage often to southeast asia, european garbage often to africa
08:19<SamanthaD>good to know we have high esteem for the third world, eh?
08:20<Eddi|zuHause>some of the transports are even illegal, but they're still doing them
08:20<@planetmaker>it's not called garbage but recyclables
08:20<@planetmaker>makes all the difference in the forms ;-)
08:20<SamanthaD>heh
08:20<krinn>and technology does profits: if you have used tired in your country that you just cannot re-use or re-use at 20% but american have techno to re-use them at 90% ratio, here comes the used tired
08:21<SamanthaD>Most "recycling" goes to the landfill...
08:21<SamanthaD>I knew a deputy mayor who told me that while she was serving they had to divert almost all their recycling to the dump
08:22<krinn>lol, if you don't care about ecology, you're a top country for other countries where ecology lobbyist bug them
08:22<SamanthaD>ah yeah...
08:22<SamanthaD>tires are one of the few things that are very recyceable though
08:22<SamanthaD>retreds for the win
08:23<krinn>hmmm, like france and his old vessels that we could sent to india so child can do the work for cheap
08:23<NeuhNeuh>Hi !
08:23<SamanthaD>hi NeuhNeuh!
08:23<NeuhNeuh>SamanthaD: o/
08:24<krinn>hi
08:24<NeuhNeuh>Hi krinn :)
08:24<NeuhNeuh>I must go to town hall
08:24<SamanthaD>oh, why?
08:24<NeuhNeuh>I go take the bus \o/
08:25<SamanthaD>the only hotel on wheels!
08:25<NeuhNeuh>For make a new ID card
08:26<NeuhNeuh>Go gogo !
08:26*NeuhNeuh is now OUT (yes its possible)
08:26<SamanthaD>bye NeuNeu
08:27*krinn think NeuhNeuh will never get it : french townhall : 9h-12h and 14h-16h opening hours : so 14h30 + bus trip, if he get past 15h : door closed
08:28<SamanthaD>oh noes!
08:29<krinn>lol yes, it's like 1 hour of work = 10 mins for them
08:30<krinn>but i'm in south, with strong reputation of lazyness :)
08:31<SamanthaD>here we make jokes about the Department of Motor Vehicles
08:31<krinn>it's one that deliver license?
08:31<SamanthaD>god... I'm still watching that cat try to get through the hole...
08:32<SamanthaD>krinn: yeah, that's the one
08:32<krinn>saw many movie that jokes about them
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08:40<Eddi|zuHause>SamanthaD: that's just because you have no office for ID cards :p
08:41<SamanthaD>Ha! That *IS* the office for ID cards!
08:42<Eddi|zuHause>well, effectively :)
08:42<krinn>well, it's easy here : 14h-16 mean better be there at 14h and it may open ~14h30 and don't try going at 15h30 they are already closed anyway
08:43<SamanthaD>I don't get how our local DMV can have something like ten clerks and it STILL takes five hours to process you
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08:43<krinn>they have stats that defy logic : if you think 10 workers can handle 10 customers, you're just wrong :)
08:44<SamanthaD>heh
08:44<SamanthaD>I think it's more like 15-20
08:44<SamanthaD>they have a bunch in the back
08:44<krinn>yeah, who do you think is making the coffee ?
08:45<SamanthaD>heh, indeed
08:45<Eddi|zuHause>in german we have the joke about "Beamtenmikado" (office-clerk mikado): whoever moves first, loses
08:45<krinn>one day i saw guys at arsenal (a tiny city inside our city, yeah, where they build/repair warships) : 5 guys working
08:46<SamanthaD>only five guys working on an entire ship?!
08:46<krinn>1 was on the ladder to change the lamp, 2 were making sure the ladder don't fall, and 1 was speaking with them or managing them i don't know
08:46<Eddi|zuHause>that
08:46<SamanthaD>oy...
08:46<Eddi|zuHause>'s 4
08:47<krinn>lol yes Eddi|zuHause is following
08:47<Eddi|zuHause>"one carries the responsibility"
08:47<SamanthaD>I figure he's inside doing the requisition paperwork
08:47<Eddi|zuHause>(might be a difficult to translate pun)
08:48<SamanthaD>why? it makes sense to me
08:48<SamanthaD>does "responsibility" mean more than one thing in German?
08:48<krinn>i had work in it when i was young, to remove paint inside a sub, guys were speaking upper while there controlling device (for radiation) was down with us, attach to a rope :)
08:49<Eddi|zuHause>"carry" as in usually meaning some heavy working going on
08:49<SamanthaD>Eddi: oh yeah, here too
08:49<SamanthaD>Krinn: good to know you were well cared for!
08:49<SamanthaD>all that radiation
08:49<SamanthaD>now look at you!
08:49<SamanthaD>playing with trains on a computer
08:49<Eddi|zuHause>so if 9 out of 10 guys carry something heavy, and the 10th nothing at all, the joke is he "carries the responsibility"
08:50<krinn>it's because when the device tell you, you have reach a certain amount, your work day is over
08:50<krinn>and so, they were speaking upper with few radiation, and the device was taking his hour of exposure for them (~ an hour to reach the level)
08:51<SamanthaD>ooooh! I get it now!
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08:51<krinn>the entry was easy, the exit was fucking scary
08:52<SamanthaD>why?
08:53<krinn>you drop clothes and enter, but to exit you must enter a device, put hands, device close the door, if ok device open the other door, if not, door stays closed and alarm ring
08:53<krinn>so you endup contaminated and nude waiting in the device :)
08:54<SamanthaD>eek! how do they decontaminate you?
08:54<krinn>no idea, mostly bathing i think
08:54<SamanthaD>ah, lucky!
08:55<SamanthaD>anyone ever set off alarm while you were there?
08:55<krinn>hell no!
08:55<krinn>we were controlling our portable device like mad
08:56<SamanthaD>my grandfather was a nuclear engineer
08:56<SamanthaD>but back then they didn't really understand nuclear safety
08:56<krinn>and it was hard, the guys that work in there were having digital controlling device, while we have ones that must be check with eyes and light
08:56<SamanthaD>probably why our family is so screwed up
08:57<krinn>^^
08:57<SamanthaD>people working in the reactor?
08:57<krinn>the good part is that we were working mostly by night (because working with light increase radiation level faster), and only an hour, but get paid for 8 hours, at night price with a danger extra : huge money
08:58<SamanthaD>wow...
08:58<krinn>it was an attack sub (nuclear propulsion, the ruby was its name)
08:58<SamanthaD>I suddenly went from "wow, shit job" to "where do I sign up?!"
08:59*SamanthaD ponders
08:59<SamanthaD>if you had to go through all that just to be in the sub, how the heck do they crew it?!
08:59<krinn>lol and i get a month of vacancy for 20 days of work
08:59<SamanthaD>you quit this job, why?
09:00<krinn>it's because it was the paint that cover the walls of the reactor in the sub
09:00<krinn>the part where the water is
09:00<SamanthaD>ah, I see, that makes sense
09:00<krinn>because it was a temp job, they need extra guys to finish it within delays (and seeing them upper waiting, i know why they need extra guys)
09:01<dihedral>SamanthaD and krinn seem to really be hitting it of :-P
09:01<SamanthaD>ah, too bad
09:01*Sacro is confused by the scrollback
09:02<SamanthaD>dihedral: I like this channel!
09:02<@Alberth>just scroll back to where the scrollback srtarted?
09:05<Sacro>I don't know who's who these days
09:05<SamanthaD>I've never done any particularly dangerous jobs
09:05<SamanthaD>the most dangerous thing I've done for money is basically wade through antifreeze
09:05<Sacro>@seen Bjarni
09:05<@DorpsGek>Sacro: Bjarni was last seen in #openttd 1 year, 42 weeks, 3 days, 12 hours, 46 minutes, and 32 seconds ago: <Bjarni> heh
09:05<Sacro>pssh
09:05<krinn>that was the only dangerous one i've made (except maybe keeping my nieve)
09:06<SamanthaD>The antifreeze was for use in fire sprinklers
09:06<SamanthaD>I hate to think the mess those things would make spraying that gooey sludge all over the place
09:07<peter1139>this spongekeyboard is horrible after using my clicky keyboard for a while
09:08<krinn>SamanthaD, it looks funny when you don't own responsability for it
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09:11<SamanthaD>They put antifreeze in the sprinklers over entryways. They told us it's so they don't freeze if the door is left open. I suspect they did it because making the floor slippery by the exit in an emergency is funny.
09:12<SamanthaD>When I was in school our building's fire alarm would go off every time it rained. Once we had a fire and it didn't go off.
09:12<krinn>nice techno there :D
09:13<SamanthaD>I know! A light fixture shorted out
09:13<SamanthaD>but we were okay
09:13<SamanthaD>it just happens that my city college was also the county's firefighter training camp ;)
09:13<krinn>that's school, one day they were making a fire simulation, just to see all exits were closed (because closing them prevent anyone from entering, but lol prevent anyone from getting out too)
09:14<SamanthaD>are you serious?!
09:14<krinn>lol yes
09:14<SamanthaD>OH!
09:14<SamanthaD>you mean fire doors with automatic closures!
09:14<krinn>it wasn't firedoor specially
09:15<krinn>they changed them so inside you have a way to open it while outside no way
09:15<SamanthaD>ah
09:15<SamanthaD>I guess that makes sense until you realize that firefighters are people, too
09:15<krinn>previous doors were locked by keys, so if no teacher was there to open them : everyone burn :)
09:16<SamanthaD>that's scary
09:16<SamanthaD>even if there was a teacher, people would pile against the door and the teacher wouldn't be able to get to it
09:17<krinn>hopefuly we never had to test for real
09:18<peter1139>well no, that's a not a test ;p
09:18<peter1139>-a
09:19<SamanthaD>my teachers got so used to the false alarms they would actually continue to lecture until they got to a good break point
09:20<krinn>it's like the maps that should be there to help finding exit. They are generally made of plastic : so when fire is there, look at the platic map to find the exit :P
09:21<SamanthaD>follow the exit signs!
09:21<SamanthaD>I really want a tritium exit sign to hang in my room
09:21<krinn>we don't have that exit sign rule in france
09:21<SamanthaD>you should make it then!
09:22<SamanthaD>though... sometimes our exit signs lead toward dead-ends >.>
09:22<krinn>we should have a map showing the complex, exits and stuff to fight fire
09:22<@Alberth>a big heavy brick to smash your window works too :p
09:22<krinn>but the map is always in plastic, so better read the map while no fire is there
09:22<SamanthaD>yup
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09:23<krinn>Alberth, to introduce a good amount of fresh air for your fire ?
09:23<SamanthaD>in school we were taught to punch out the window through our jackets
09:23<SamanthaD>but they also told us to drink from toilet tanks in case of earthquake
09:23<SamanthaD>so... I'm not entirely sure that advice was sound
09:24<krinn>lol drink toilet tanks!
09:24<SamanthaD>yup!
09:24<SamanthaD>apparently the water there is "clean"
09:24<SamanthaD>but last time I looked in my toilet tank it certainly wasn't clean <.<
09:24<@Alberth>if you get in that situation, you'll be happy with any water, I guess
09:24<krinn>do they suggest eating your neighbor too ?
09:24<SamanthaD>best be prepared
09:25<SamanthaD>every Californian should own a decent size bottle of iodine
09:25<SamanthaD>with enough iodine you could drink from a sewer
09:26<krinn>well, i prefer having a fish tank next to me
09:26<SamanthaD>earthquake is likely to destroy the tank, though
09:26<krinn>ah yes
09:27<krinn>but i don't think the earthquake will be so long that you must drink or die
09:27<SamanthaD>it's not so much that the earthquake is long it's that the earthquake destroys the city's water supply and roads and such
09:28<@planetmaker>if the earthquake destroys sufficiently much of the infrastructure, drinking water can become a very scarce comodity
09:28<@planetmaker>comodity? resource
09:28<SamanthaD>yup
09:28<SamanthaD>and if you live in the wrong part of the city you could be isolated and without a water supply for as long as a month
09:29<@planetmaker>well. you got legs to walk on ;-)
09:29<@planetmaker>hopefully
09:29<SamanthaD>I have a friend who lives in the hills
09:29<krinn>planetmaker, i would say, better count on them, seeing how they do with catrina
09:29<Twofish>Everyone in #openttd is gonna freak out now, and fill up their home, car and an emergency backup location with plastic bottles of water, and iodine in case of nuclear polution...
09:29<SamanthaD>there are TWO roads connecting her little town to anyone else
09:30<SamanthaD>Twofish: nono, the iodine is for making water with
09:31<krinn>SamanthaD, sun can also do that too, i've seen that with the guys that keep going in weird place with a rope and a knife
09:31<SamanthaD>the sun can't disinfect water...
09:31<krinn>that's what he said, got hot water, but good to drink
09:32<SamanthaD>hmm... I don't trust it
09:32<SamanthaD>I trust my iodinated water
09:32<krinn>i'll google that
09:32<SamanthaD>it's NOT very nice to drink though
09:32<Twofish>SamanthaD: http://users.wfu.edu/matthews/misc/nuclear/ki/ki.html
09:32<krinn>http://modernsurvivalblog.com/health/how-to-purify-water-with-sunlight/
09:33<Twofish>SamanthaD: me not knowing the difference between ionide and iodide
09:33<Twofish>Norwegian... :/
09:34<krinn>nor me Twofish but as a french i avoid saying it to let people thinks all french are smart
09:34<Twofish>iodine / iodide ... hard this :p
09:35<SamanthaD>I think ionide is a typo?
09:35<SamanthaD>OH!
09:35<SamanthaD>I get the question
09:35<SamanthaD>iodine is the element, iodide is the ion
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09:36<krinn>15h35 got your ID or it was closed ?
09:36<SamanthaD>he's back too soon to have waded though a government office
09:37<krinn>lmao SamanthaD
09:37<Twofish>Still, iodide can help you protect yourself against radiation. In Norway we don't have any large nuclear plants, but with short way to Russia ...
09:37<SamanthaD>yeah, because your thalamus sucks up iodine like nobody's business
09:37<SamanthaD>problem is, a lot of isotopes of iodine are radioactive
09:38<SamanthaD>so, you want to saturate your thalamus with safe iodine before you absorb the contaminated stuff
09:38<Twofish>:)
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09:38<krinn>don't worry tchernobyl never reach us Twofish and why our women here have all those thyroid problem cannot be because of it
09:39<Twofish>My mother ate those when she were pregnant, due to the Tsjernobyl accident.
09:39<SamanthaD>speaking of eating and radiation
09:39<SamanthaD>you gotta love uranium pottery glaze
09:39<Twofish>We still can messure the effects in natures radioation levels
09:41<SamanthaD>http://carlwillis.files.wordpress.com/2010/01/orange_stuff.jpg
09:41<Twofish>Norways problem is that we didn't do regular radiation messurements before Tsjernobyl
09:41<SamanthaD>don't eat off of plates that color
09:41<SamanthaD>but keep the plate
09:41<SamanthaD>it's a valuable collectible
09:41<Twofish>Se the tables. Tsjernobyl were in 86. http://www.miljostatus.no/Tema/Straling/Radioaktiv-forurensning/Land-og-ferskvann/radioaktivitet-villrein/
09:42<Twofish>Meassured in wild reindeer
09:42<krinn>upto +12500 ?
09:42<SamanthaD>I wonder how they settle on reindeer as a metric...
09:43<Twofish>lol... Probably just because that meat get in - so it is easy to do mass meassurement.
09:43-!-andythenorth [~Andy@87-194-85-121.bethere.co.uk] has joined #openttd
09:43<andythenorth>o/
09:43<SamanthaD>hey andythenorth!
09:43<krinn>hi andythenorth
09:44<NeuhNeuh>:)
09:44<NeuhNeuh>Hi andythenorth :)
09:44<Twofish>Out Sivil Defence do meassurements in the nature "all the time", so now we have regular data.
09:44<@Alberth>o/ andy
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10:06<LordAro>http://i.stack.imgur.com/PJw3h.png
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10:07<SamanthaD>haha
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13:06*Xaroth|Work pokes TWerkhoven
13:07<__ln__>zomg, i paid 5 euros with a credit card in germany
13:08<Eddi|zuHause>how dare you!
13:11<@Belugas>lucky you, you cold use your credit card ;)
13:12<@Belugas>could
13:12<dihedral>__ln__, hehe what did you buy for 5 eur?
13:12<dihedral>BELUGAS :-)
13:12<dihedral>how are you? how was you trip?
13:12<@Belugas>hello dihedral :)
13:12<dihedral>and how was your significant other's reaction? :-D
13:12<@Belugas>way better then the first one
13:13<@Belugas>she was really pleased seeing me coming IN TIME!
13:13<@Belugas>and my son was sooo trilled!
13:13<dihedral>well - at least that is good :-)
13:13<__ln__>dihedral: "flughafen feuerwehr-simulator", mac version :)
13:13<@Belugas>i arrvied soone enough nopt to catch him in bed
13:13<dihedral>lol
13:13<dihedral>Belugas, glad to hear :-)
13:14<dihedral>so your trip back home went as planned i take it
13:14*TWerkhoven pokes Xaroth|Work
13:14<@Belugas>quite indeed :)
13:14<@Belugas>i had a very good time visiting Amsterdam with Rubidium, then not to wait too long at the gates
13:15<Xaroth|Work>TWerkhoven: happen to have the code that triggers it (without the .configure() call ofc)
13:15<Xaroth|Work>I'll poke around on my server to reproduce
13:15<Xaroth|Work>Belugas: you were in amsterdam
13:15<@Belugas>all was fine. slept a long time in plane too
13:15<Xaroth|Work>and you didn't come have a beer?
13:15<Xaroth|Work>pffffff
13:15<@Belugas>yup
13:15<TWerkhoven>:)
13:15<dihedral>he did have a beer
13:15<@Belugas>well... i was not in a state of mind to have a beer...
13:15<@Rubidium>Xaroth|Work: but you were at work ;)
13:15<dihedral>just with the right people :-P
13:15<@Belugas>had enough in germany ;)
13:15<TWerkhoven>self.connection.send_packet(AdminPoll, pollType = 0x01, extra = 0xFFFFFFFF)
13:15<@Belugas>yeah dihedral :D
13:16<Xaroth|Work>Rubidium: I can just inform the boss I have to go to the DC
13:16<Xaroth|Work>which is awkwardly close to amsterdam
13:16<TWerkhoven>first packet after sending that always comes back with that error, clients connected or not
13:16<dihedral>or you could have visited germany too
13:17<Xaroth|Work>TWerkhoven: rgr
13:17<Xaroth|Work>dihedral: too far drive for me
13:17<@Rubidium>Xaroth|Work: really bull... even Belugas could make it
13:17<TWerkhoven>and that packet is for requesting clientinfo on all clients, which i need to find out which client id belongs to which ingame-nick
13:17<dihedral>... drive to the dc and have Rubidium and TrueBrain and Belugas take you with them
13:18<dihedral>TWerkhoven, i read you are having issues with the admin network
13:18<dihedral>how can i help
13:18<TrueBrain>is Xaroth now really complaining Belguas didnt have a beer with him, while Xaroth was too lazy of a bumb to join the meet? Pfffttt
13:18<Xaroth|Work>TWerkhoven: reproduced, fixing now
13:19<dihedral>TrueBrain, in essence, yeah
13:19<@Belugas>hehehe
13:19<dihedral>actually, though, he is saying that he wanted to only meet Belugas and not the rest of us
13:20<Xaroth|Work>dihedral: work <=> amsterdam: 20 minutes , work <=> planetmaker: 4+ hours
13:20<TWerkhoven>not really issues with the admin network (yet), just some corner case that libottdadmin didnt account for yet
13:20<@Belugas>loving whale freak...
13:20<dihedral>Xaroth|Work, and how long do you think i was driving to get to planetmaker's?
13:20<@Belugas>Well... when you have such a nice personality as mine... cough cough
13:21<Xaroth|Work>dihedral: and how many days off from work do you have? ;)
13:21<Xaroth|Work>I'm at -2
13:21<dihedral>Xaroth|Work, i did not need a single
13:21<Xaroth|Work>I would have
13:21<@Rubidium>apparantly Xaroth|Work works saturdays and sundays
13:21<Xaroth|Work>Rubidium: saturdays occasionally, yes
13:22<dihedral>occasionally - there you have it :-P
13:22<Xaroth|Work>and every weekend stand-by service.
13:22<dihedral>Xaroth|Work, get a better job :-D
13:22<Xaroth|Work>dihedral: pay me.
13:22<dihedral>how much
13:23<@Belugas>2 beer / hour
13:23<dihedral>hehe - that's cheaper than the indians :-D
13:23<Xaroth|Work>I'm not going to work for minimum wage :P
13:23<dihedral>Xaroth|Work, we have a branch office in NL
13:23<@Belugas>hugh!
13:23<dihedral>and i can do with a second admin
13:24<dihedral>or move to germany - we have enough english speakers in the team
13:24<Eddi|zuHause><__ln__> dihedral: "flughafen feuerwehr-simulator", mac version :) <-- i hope it's not the BER edition :p
13:24<TrueBrain>big assumption, that "english speaker" part
13:24<TrueBrain>*troll*
13:24<dihedral>Eddi|zuHause, they'd have nothing to do :-D
13:24<dihedral>TrueBrain, well - english-ish
13:25<dihedral>developers from india, turky, germany, cz, ...
13:25<dihedral>a brit in the consulting team ...
13:25<TWerkhoven>lol
13:27<Xaroth|Work>brits can't speak english, no :P
13:27<TWerkhoven>i've often been commented on that my english is better than the natives
13:28<Xaroth|Work>I've been commented for talking better english than brits ... so imagine how crappy their english is.
13:28<TWerkhoven>i mightve gotten worse since i started living here
13:28<TWerkhoven>definately have a bit of a scots thing going on now
13:29<Xaroth|Work>right, indeed, annoying corner-case
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13:31<Xaroth|Work>TWerkhoven: pushing
13:31<Eddi|zuHause>there was this comedian i heard recently, he went like "when i moved to germany, the people told me 'you'll be immersed in people speaking german, you learn the language in no time. -- no you're not. you're immersed in people speaking english, wis a german akzent. i'm fluent with my german accent now."
13:32<Xaroth|Work>TWerkhoven: for reference, in such cases the lib now returns datetime.min
13:33<TWerkhoven>thats good enough for me
13:33<TWerkhoven>should only be server anyway
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13:34<Eddi|zuHause>__ln__: also, you should have bought the game in austria, there you could have gotten the uncensored bloody version :p
13:35<Xaroth|Work>TWerkhoven: also, I'll introduce some more enums at some point for the poll requests
13:38<TWerkhoven>:)
13:40<dihedral>TrueBrain, i was fighting with trying to get my memories linked.... you remind me of a colleague i used to have in the UK
13:40<dihedral>also a very talented Sys Op :-)
13:40<Xaroth|Work>and a complete BOFH ?
13:41-!-frosch123 [~frosch@frnk-4d00b833.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd
13:41<dihedral>i think that is just asking for a reaction :-P
13:41<Xaroth|Work>it's not really like he needs to confirm something we already know
13:41<Xaroth|Work>I mean...
13:44<Eddi|zuHause>he used to be much worse :p
13:45<TWerkhoven>fix works
13:45<@DorpsGek>Commit by translators :: r25635 /trunk/src/lang (estonian.txt japanese.txt) (2013-07-30 17:45:17 UTC)
13:45<@DorpsGek>-Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
13:45<@DorpsGek>estonian - 231 changes by KSiimson
13:45<@DorpsGek>japanese - 2 changes by guppy
13:46<TrueBrain>will be posting on tt-forums soon, but for the early birds: http://devs.openttd.org/~truebrain/authentication/draft4.txt
13:49*dihedral reads
13:49<TWerkhoven>quick q about adminport. frame in various packets should relate to ticks or some form of time passed, am i right?
13:49<Xaroth|Work>the command log ones?
13:50<TWerkhoven>yes
13:50<Xaroth|Work>that's the frame as per used by the networking system of openttd
13:51<Xaroth|Work>it's a form of time indication, but I'm not sure as per frequency or whatever
13:51<TWerkhoven>ah, so unrelated to frame as shown in openttd commandline-console
13:51<Xaroth|Work>actually, might be related
13:52<Xaroth|Work>looks about the same thing
13:53<TWerkhoven>when building something, the servercmdlogging always show frame to be 32
13:53<TWerkhoven>joining and then starting a new company show other values for frame
13:53<Xaroth|Work>hm
13:54<TWerkhoven>i've not looked too much into the content of the packets yet it has to be said
13:54<TWerkhoven>just something i found odd
13:54<dihedral>TrueBrain, "once a server validated them, they become invalid." < - Why
13:55<Xaroth|Work>one-time-keys
13:55<TrueBrain>a ticket is a one-time ticket
13:55<TrueBrain>not a multiple-time ticket
13:55<TrueBrain>like an entry ticket to a rollercoaster
13:55<TrueBrain>you cannot reuse it
13:56<@Alberth>TB can come as often as he likes in FreeRCT parks!
13:57<LordAro>:D
14:01<Xaroth|Work>TWerkhoven: i get 32 as well :o
14:05<scshunt>what about freerct?
14:06<Xaroth|Work>TWerkhoven: from what I get data-wise, it -is- always 32
14:06<Xaroth|Work>except once or twice
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14:14<Eddi|zuHause>we hate freerct, it's a competing project!! :p
14:14<LordAro>scshunt: what about it? http://freerct.org
14:20<scshunt>I know about it
14:20<scshunt>'s about it
14:22<TWerkhoven>Xaroth|Work: maybe it gives the game-frame for certain operations (eg company creation) and frames-to-execute-this-packet for any actual construction works (this might mean there are 32 frames per tick?)
14:23<Xaroth|Work>probably
14:23<TWerkhoven>as i know theres a 1tick delay in some places so that all clients have a chance to receive and execute said command
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14:30<frosch123>dihedral: who is the goldfish?
14:34*krinn has put socks on after loosing 2 litters of blood offer to mosquito's God
14:35<@Belugas>better yet... what's that stuff about goldfish???
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14:37<dihedral>I will not risk my ass just to answer your question, frosch123 :-P
14:37<frosch123>ok, tell belugas in private :p
14:38-!-megakacktus [~debussy@67-6-68-247.mpls.qwest.net] has quit [Quit: Live long and prosper]
14:39<dihedral>done
14:40<dihedral>TrueBrain, did you check the openssl bindings?
14:54<krinn>those stupid newGRF non-sense, took me time to see that ! you cannot attach X to Y, but you can attach Y to X
14:55<@DorpsGek>Commit by fonsinchen :: r25636 trunk/src/vehicle.cpp (2013-07-30 18:55:52 UTC)
14:56<@DorpsGek>-Fix: invalidate last_loading_station when stopping in depot
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14:57<Wolf01>hello
14:58<Wolf01>accidents, what are you doing... accidents... stahp! :(
14:58<krinn>hello
14:59<Xaroth|Work>Wolf01: what did you blow up this time?
15:00<Wolf01>nah, I meant the latest 3 transportation accidents
15:04<@DorpsGek>Commit by fonsinchen :: r25637 trunk/src/linkgraph/linkgraphjob.cpp (2013-07-30 19:03:56 UTC)
15:04<@DorpsGek>-Fix: don't keep minimal routing information if automatic distribution has been disabled
15:06<Eddi|zuHause>or 4? or 5?
15:07<V453000>yes
15:08<Eddi|zuHause>did they actually find out the cause of the one in france?
15:08<@Rubidium>some piece of metal was missing in the switch
15:08<Eddi|zuHause>so it was not locked in place properly?
15:09<@Rubidium>not sure. I can't remember (or rather can't remember having heard) the piece that was actually missing
15:10<@Rubidium>if it was the guard rail, then the switch could have been locked
15:11<Eddi|zuHause>there was a fairly serious train vs. car accident a few weeks back in germany
15:11<Eddi|zuHause>where the crossing was only guarded by a light, not by a barrier, and the train (DMU) approached at high speed
15:12<Eddi|zuHause>like 140km/h
15:12<Eddi|zuHause>they now made these trains go slow, and sound the horn, which immediately annoyed the people living there
15:13<@Rubidium>yup... the switch was locked
15:13<krinn>it's an eclipse (piece to attach two rails with each other)
15:13<@Rubidium>http://www.lesechos.fr/entreprises-secteurs/service-distribution/actu/0202895748689-bretigny-la-sncf-confirme-la-these-de-l-eclisse-585985.php
15:13<krinn>that jump out of rail and goes put itself within a crossing point
15:14<krinn>yeah eclisse not eclipse :)
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15:18<krinn>sncf says it just a material problem, well, better read it as "not our fault", eclisse should be control (and are in theory), so clearly like all accidents : bad piece (material, not well fixed...) + bad control + bad luck = accident
15:20<krinn>but even without the bad luck the piece jump to that point, two rails attach by one eclisse would have gave awful result soon or later
15:20<@Rubidium>or they just don't look at them often enough
15:21<krinn>but in france (like many countries i suppose) : responsibility = money, better says it's material so
15:21<krinn>Rubidium, totally right, less control === more money
15:21<@Rubidium>actually, better checking => more control => lower costs
15:22<Eddi|zuHause>but... how can 4 screws go loose simultaneously, at a switch that was subject to maintenance recently?
15:22<Xaroth|Work>same way BP Deep Horizon happened
15:22<krinn>well, less control to some point gave a good result, but at a totally out of control point, it gave poorer
15:22<Xaroth|Work>bad maintenance
15:22<Xaroth|Work>bad control
15:24<krinn>and if you see how are the screws, you automatically knows they really abuse
15:25<krinn>http://www.railfasteners.fr/2-rail-jointing/1b.jpg
15:25<krinn>this is the piece that lost its screws
15:25<@Rubidium>those joints shouldn't get that much abuse. If they get a lot of abuse, then the track isn't laid right
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15:26<krinn>you can even see in the picture some screws are more tight than others :P
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15:29<krinn>and so for sncf : the piece lost its screws after last control and while the train was going on... Must be why they never tell "when" was that last control
15:29<krinn>hi Zuu
15:30<Zuu>Hello
15:39<Zuu>IIRC, here trains must use the horn before they pass a railway crossing w/o barrier. It may also be true for some/all crossings with a barrier.
15:41<krinn>we don't have many crossing w/o barrier, but i suppose horn & slow speed should be the rule (except if you want crush some cars)
15:42<krinn>but i know they horn before station :)
15:43<krinn>i have a small station here, and tgv pass it (but don't stop at it) and they horn to warn people (the station rails are even incline so it could pass fast)
15:44<krinn>it's boring when you take a train that stop at it, as the wagon is real high compare to ground because of the inclination
15:48<Eddi|zuHause>there's a difference between "not technically secured crossings" and "technically secured crossings", where this one counted as "technically secured" because it has a light
15:49<Eddi|zuHause>the car driver claimed she couldn't see the light because of the sun
15:49<Eddi|zuHause>(by some miracle she survived with heavy injuries)
15:50<@Rubidium>doesn't not seeing the light imply it being red?
15:50<krinn>not for women :D
15:51*krinn hides
15:51<@Rubidium>so Darwin 1-0
15:51<Eddi|zuHause>kinda. the rule is even if the light is off, you should approach slowly and check if a train is coming
15:51<@Rubidium>oh, there is no light saying it's safe-ish?
15:51<dihedral>blast - i spent the last hour chasing why a overriding method was not called, just to find out it was called, but the api used catches "Exception" without any output ... grrr
15:52<Eddi|zuHause>(but if the light doesn't work, the train has to stop before the crossing)
15:52<krinn>Rubidium, only light saying watchout or watchout even more
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16:18<krinn>anyone have some odd newGRF feature (for trains/wagon/tracks) in mind i could look at ?
16:19<@Rubidium>action 6
16:19<krinn>can you tell me what this do ?
16:19<@Rubidium>I rather not talk dirty in this channel
16:19<krinn>i know 0 about newGRF action or the like, only as noai see it
16:21<krinn>i see, modifie contents of sprite ? isn't that just graphic ?
16:21<@Rubidium>rather everything but the graphics
16:22<krinn>gave us the actionE to noai :)
16:27<krinn>well, this newGRF doc is good to make newGRF not to discover what people has made with that
16:29<krinn>action0 property 18 is ?
16:29-!-HerzogDeXtEr1 [~Flex@i59F6DF17.versanet.de] has joined #openttd
16:30<krinn>forget last query, i see openttd don't use it
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16:32<Eddi|zuHause>"action 0 property X" is incomplete without "feature y"
16:33<krinn>must be 0 0 18
16:33<Eddi|zuHause>krinn: evil thing for AI is probably brake wagons
16:33<krinn>but it's ok i saw openttd don't use it
16:33<krinn>any newgrf i could see with it ?
16:34<Eddi|zuHause>dunno, the few i would immediately think of said they disable this for AI
16:34<krinn>ah good, not affecting me so
16:34<Eddi|zuHause>which is a feature that might be removed in the future, though
16:34<Eddi|zuHause>(the being able to check whether it's an AI)
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16:35<krinn>i was thinking the wagonX only use with trainY was the worst until i saw that trainY cannot be attach to trainZ, but you can do trainZ with trainY
16:36<krinn>what a dumb feature, looks more like a bug than anything
16:36<Eddi|zuHause>yes, attaqchment is neither symmetric nor transitive
16:37<Eddi|zuHause>attachment rules are stupid, i don't use them
16:38<Eddi|zuHause>you can attach an ICE3 to a BR01 for all i care...
16:38<krinn>just like this stupid one, it looks ok on paper : autoattach wagon when create to a train
16:38<krinn>without the newgrf openttd create the train, and the wagon, and you move it then, but that newGRF change that and automove it
16:39<Eddi|zuHause>that has nothing to do with newgrfs
16:39<Eddi|zuHause>it worked like this in the original game already
16:40<Eddi|zuHause>have only 1 engine in depot, create wagon -> automatically attach wagon to train
16:40<krinn>well, dunno, it doesn't do that with stock openttd
16:40<Eddi|zuHause>have only wagons in depot, create 1 engine -> automatically attach wagons to train
16:40<krinn>not as AI
16:41<Eddi|zuHause>i never made an AI
16:41<krinn>create train, create wagon : both remain alone
16:41<Eddi|zuHause>maybe it's a bug
16:41<Eddi|zuHause>like, feature was disabled in one code path, but not the other
16:42<frosch123>i would think it's intentionally disabled for ais
16:42<krinn>well, with 2cc it do that, without it doesn't
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16:43<krinn>:o i should recheck that, maybe i only see wagons that cannot be attach
16:44<Eddi|zuHause>frosch123: yes, that was kinda my thought
16:44<Eddi|zuHause>krinn: maybe make a testcase and report it
16:44<krinn>i'm adding some break after wagon creation to see
16:45<frosch123>[22:40] <Eddi|zuHause> have only wagons in depot, create 1 engine -> automatically attach wagons to train <- is that actually the case?
16:46<Eddi|zuHause>frosch123: it used to be, but there was some reshuffling with free wagon chains, not sure if that still works
16:46<krinn>no frosch123 it work for new wagon, not train
16:46<frosch123>anyway, commands should not behave differently for ais depending on whether there is one or two engines in the depot
16:46<frosch123>the auto-attach is a gui feature for humans, not for ais
16:46<Eddi|zuHause>frosch123: the use case is: sell engine -> get free wagon chain, immediately buy a new engine -> automatically attach
16:48<frosch123>ah, it does indeed both for humans
16:48<frosch123>though with different methods
16:48<krinn>just tried : it doesn't autoattach them, my mistake, i was moving them too fast
16:48<Eddi|zuHause>it used to be annoying if you had leftover wagons in the depot. then it would attach all wagons, not just the ones you just freed. not sure if that changed
16:49<krinn>well, as ai i prefer the current never attach state
16:49<Eddi|zuHause>yes. that makes sense for AIs
16:50<frosch123>hmm, i don't see where it is prevented for ais
16:50<frosch123>i see it for the build wagon case, but not for the build engine case
16:51<Eddi|zuHause>frosch123: that's what i suspected. one case might be treated different than the other
16:54<Xaroth|Work>TWerkhoven: btw, I'd love to see what you're building.
16:55<Eddi|zuHause>if you build it, they will come
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17:01<krinn>really there's that race condition that cannot be avoid
17:01<krinn>build wagons : save : load you're dead
17:03<krinn>it's then impossible to get the id of the wagons as no functions exist for that, and loosing the id by save/load : so long the wagons, the ai cannot find them (and so remove/move/attach...)
17:05<Eddi|zuHause>i can't really help you with that
17:06<krinn>i'm trying my last trick to get them to see
17:07<TrueBrain>dihedral: openssl is a nogo because of license issues (ask Debian about details)
17:08<krinn>i'll open a ticket for that, they really are lost
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17:13<dihedral>TrueBrain, and how do you then want to communicate over https only?
17:13<TrueBrain>gnutls
17:13<TrueBrain>its not like there is only a single possible implementation of SSL / TLS
17:13<TrueBrain>more people tend to write the same software
17:13<Xaroth|Work>http://xkcd.com/927/
17:13<Xaroth|Work>^ relevant xkcd
17:14<TrueBrain>semi-relevant; the standard is still the same
17:14<TrueBrain>only the implementation differs :D
17:14<Xaroth|Work>true
17:16<dihedral>good to know :-)
17:17<@planetmaker>michi_cc, so I need a new(er) ICU to compile your patch queue?
17:18<@planetmaker>I have installed icu 4.8.1 but get a linking error with "ld: library not found for -licudata-licule"
17:19<+michi_cc>planetmaker: That looks more like an error in either icu-config or our config.lib. I would guess that should read "-licudata -licule" as the libraries are called libicudata and libicule.
17:20<+michi_cc>And besides, icule is for the layout engine, which Rb already added to trunk :)
17:20<NGC3982>Are you guys familiar with xt9 on smaller Android tabs?
17:21<@planetmaker>right. Let's see
17:37<Wolf01>'night
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17:44<@planetmaker>hm, I don't exactly find anywhere where those LDFLAGS are added...
17:45<@planetmaker>getting late, though
17:45<@planetmaker>a new look at a new day might work wonders :-)
17:46<+michi_cc>planetmaker: config.log around line 1719. There's even a comment about missing or not missing spaces.
17:47<+michi_cc>Either you have yet another variant or whatever tr is in your path is some weired BSD special version.
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17:49<@planetmaker>the "compatibility" section of the man page talks of "previous FreeBSD versions..." :D
17:53<@planetmaker>michi_cc, put each icu_config --ldflags-XXX into its own command call
17:54<@planetmaker>don't chain them in one
17:54<+michi_cc>Don't look at me, I touched exactly zero characters there :)
17:55<@planetmaker>http://devs.openttd.org/~planetmaker/patches/config_icu.diff
17:55<@planetmaker>right... let's see. Then I guess I will commit and go to bed :-)
17:57<@planetmaker>well then :-)
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18:03<@DorpsGek>Commit by planetmaker :: r25638 /trunk (3 files in 2 dirs) (2013-07-30 22:03:36 UTC)
18:03<@DorpsGek>-Fix (r25470): Some icu_config are too stupid to separate two ldflags by spaces, thus only call it with one
18:03<@planetmaker>ups...
18:04<@planetmaker>that was more than intended
18:04<@planetmaker>but that's alright, I guess
18:04<+glx>some icu_config don't even work without manual tweaking ;)
18:05<@planetmaker>yeah :-)
18:07<@planetmaker>good night
18:13<dihedral>it's too late for me too
18:13<dihedral>good night
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18:35<Aristide>Kik00
18:36<Aristide>Sorry, Hi x) Wrong channel
18:36<frosch123>night
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---Logclosed Wed Jul 31 00:00:33 2013