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#openttd IRC Logs for 2013-08-03

---Logopened Sat Aug 03 00:00:39 2013
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00:18<krinn>morning humans (and animals)
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02:52<SamanthaD>Is there an easy way to automatically transition a train from a traditional train to an EMU?
02:53<SamanthaD>(trainset considers an EMU to be all engines)
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03:14<Supercheese>which trainset?
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03:22<SamanthaD>Supercheese: Dutch trainset 2
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03:23<Supercheese>I'm presuming autoreplace doesn't do all you want it to?
03:25<SamanthaD>Supercheese: Well... for one thing autoreplace doesn't let me turn a traincar into an engine
03:25<SamanthaD>it's okay, I'm halfway done replacing all my rolling stock by hand
03:25<@planetmaker>you're aware of "keep length" option?
03:25<@planetmaker>good morning also :-)
03:25<V453000>cant make more engines than before regardless :P
03:25<SamanthaD>oh yeah!
03:26<SamanthaD>know what would be great? A feature where you could autoreplace an entire train
03:26<Supercheese>There's A Patch For That™
03:26<@Alberth>aka "consist replacement" :)
03:26<SamanthaD>"Replace any train that matches this engine with these cars with this other train"
03:26<@planetmaker>yes, would be great
03:26<SamanthaD>when I'm done playing this game I'll look into the source and see if I can't hammer out a patch
03:27<SamanthaD>I'm not very familiar with OpenTTD code, or C++ for that matter...
03:27<krinn>a GS can do that easy too
03:28<SamanthaD>a gamescript could do a full train autoreplace?
03:28<SamanthaD>enh, I need the practice
03:28<SamanthaD>and I'd love to get involved with this project
03:28<SamanthaD>it's my favorite toy!
03:29<@planetmaker>yes... but a GS for that task might be the wrong tool :-)
03:30<krinn>well, i think it can even do better
03:31<SamanthaD>do you suppose a full const autoreplace ought to have an option of saving the rolling stock?
03:32<krinn>well, it could check your money, and then decide to sent your train that you wish replacemeent to depot to change them : better than autoreplace that wait a depot visit
03:32<SamanthaD>the other thing that could really use a patch is refitting partial trains. I've got a lot of EMUs that refit to passengers or mail but I could really use 25/75 splits
03:32<@planetmaker>oh, that's not necessarily better, krin.
03:32<@planetmaker>if you play with regular servicing, that's the best time in my eyes
03:33<SamanthaD>yes, that would mess up timetables for one
03:33<@planetmaker>otherwise you disrupt normal traffic quite a lot
03:33<SamanthaD>also, the autoreplace code is already pretty smart about seeking a depot when its needed
03:33<krinn>well, it can change record each train, change railtracks, recreate new train and reput the same order
03:34<krinn>that's what an ai do, so can as gs
03:34<krinn>does autoreplace change over diff railtype?
03:34<SamanthaD>on the other hand, we're talking about a feature that really ought to be in the core game
03:35<SamanthaD>krinn: yes, as long as the depot can support both types
03:35<krinn>well, the GS will swap the depot and the complete rails before
03:35<SamanthaD>krinn: and there's a NewGRF that provides a "universal" railtype to ease the transition from rail -> monorail -> maglev
03:36<krinn>i use that universal thing, but boring to recreate the trains and reput same orders everywhere
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03:36<SamanthaD>I'm tearing my hair out here :p
03:37<SamanthaD>I've been playing this game for 100 game years
03:37<SamanthaD>I normally don't run a game this long for this to be an issue
03:37<SamanthaD>but I really like this map :3
03:37<@planetmaker>krinn, you know shared orders?
03:37<krinn>lol /restart SamanthaD
03:37<krinn>you cannot shared orders with a 0 vehicle
03:38<SamanthaD>krinn: send the old vehicles to one depot, create the new vehicles in another depot
03:38<SamanthaD>that way you can share orders between them
03:38<@planetmaker>krinn, send old trains to depots. convert rails. build new depots. build new train, share orders, sell all old trains, delete old depots
03:38<krinn>well, boring with lot of trains
03:38<SamanthaD>nobody's arguing that it's not boring ;)
03:38<@Alberth>don't convert, build new tracks instead
03:39<SamanthaD>oh! that *IS* fun
03:39<SamanthaD>hard to do with my favorite map geometries
03:39<krinn>and while building my AI i see it does that easy
03:39<SamanthaD>512 x 64 doesn't really give much room to build more than one trunk line
03:39<@planetmaker>play 2048x64 ;-)
03:39<@Alberth>also, with newer tracks, it is unlikely that you need the same amount of trains
03:40<@Alberth>or the same length or the same setup
03:40<@planetmaker>yeah... wagon capacity changes significantly
03:40<krinn>Alberth, sending a few train to depot for deletion isn't as boring as recreate x trains (even less than the previous number)
03:40<SamanthaD>krinn: It's not a matter of a GS not being able to do it, it's a question of whether or not people should have to load a gamescript as a work around for what ought to be a feature in the core game
03:41<@planetmaker>the question is: shall "upgrade everything" be an easy task really
03:41<SamanthaD>Maybe it should be an option?
03:41<SamanthaD>If it should be difficult I think it should be difficult and fun
03:41<krinn>like all feature, you can use it or not
03:42<SamanthaD>nobody likes "difficult because it's a huge, mindless chore"
03:42<krinn>but not offering it is boring imo
03:42<@planetmaker>it's not realistic either to mass-convert all rail (!!invalid argument!!)
03:42<@Alberth>SamanthaD: it is not trivial to do in general, train consists that you have may not exist any more, or there are more choices
03:43<krinn>planetmaker, as realistic as convert an aircraft or a train or a bus to a newer version
03:43<SamanthaD>Alberth: Well, what if the interface worked like this: On the left is a list of all the extant consists in your network and on the right is a train building interface that we all know and love?
03:43<@planetmaker>that's more realistic. You sell old and buy new, krinn
03:43<@planetmaker>that's normal life-cycle. But removing all existing infrastructure?
03:44<krinn>planetmaker, well you think it's more realistic the pdg of a company must use hammer and replace the tracks himself ?
03:44<@Alberth>SamanthaD: I didn't know we had such an interface :) but yeah, something in that direction
03:44<krinn>planetmaker, well, i don't think the pdg of sncf ever change one rails himself
03:44<@planetmaker>yes. :-) The whim of the manager makes things built instantaneously
03:44<SamanthaD>krinn: I think the realistic way would be to build an entirely new network without disrupting the old network until the new network is 100% ready
03:44<@planetmaker>Thus his or her errors are really expensive
03:45<SamanthaD>Alberth: You know... the interface that you use when you build a new train!
03:45<@Alberth>I don't love it! :)
03:45<krinn>planetmaker, tbh if a feature that change all tracks and trains exist, go on, ask even 10x the price : everyone will use it
03:45<V453000>whats the issue of using universal rail?
03:45<@planetmaker>krinn, as said, realism is not a valid argument for or against. Fun is :-)
03:45<SamanthaD>Alberth: You would do it differently?
03:45<@planetmaker>and yes, everyone would use it possibly. Except realism freaks. Which we also have loads
03:46*SamanthaD is a realism freak
03:46<@Alberth>At the scale of openttd, I think you need consist-based management
03:46<krinn>planetmaker, and so? they will cry for an option they have the right to just... not use
03:46<SamanthaD>using British buses with my Dutch trainset is freaking driving me insane
03:46<@Alberth>but the current way is much easier to get into
03:46<@Alberth>+ the game
03:47<@planetmaker>hm. But the idea of such window is not bad...
03:47<@planetmaker>two columns
03:47<SamanthaD>Alberth: You mean, like, adding multiple wagons at a time? I'm not sure how that would even work...
03:47<krinn>planetmaker, considering a realism freak will find the pdg of the company doing the work himself more realistic than delegating it to his peons :)
03:47<@planetmaker>one existing, the other replacement
03:47<@planetmaker>where replacement has a checkbox with "just renew" (current autorenew)
03:47<@planetmaker>alternatively you can drag-and-drop a new consist there
03:48<@planetmaker>it just needs some intelligent filtering so that you don't need to do that on a per-train-basis
03:48<SamanthaD>So... question... in addition or a complete replacement for the current autoreplace?
03:48<@Alberth>SamanthaD: more like setting up a train template first, and using that to create actual trains
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03:48<@Alberth>replacement, imho
03:48<SamanthaD>Alberth: Oh! I like that! Like how on CoOp they leave one train in the depot and just clone it?
03:49<@planetmaker>no, no, we don't leave it in depot. We put them in a show room on the map ;-)
03:49<@Alberth>yes, but without the idle train collecting dust :)
03:50<SamanthaD>I just clone from the "groups of trains" dialog
03:50<V453000>you dont need the train yard for normal games really, you can just clone trains from the network
03:50<@planetmaker>yes... though groups may contain also different trains
03:50<V453000>same effect
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03:50<@Alberth>I know, I do that too
03:50<@planetmaker>convenience, V453000 :-)
03:50<V453000>sort of :)
03:50<V453000>just that "trains catching dust" isnt an argument :P
03:50<SamanthaD>Xaroth|Work: Hello!
03:51<SamanthaD>trains should catch bugs, not dust
03:51<aquse>You guys play on any servers?
03:51<@Alberth>V453000: I was not claiming it to be a valid argument :)
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03:52<@planetmaker>aquse, yes... those which I own ;-)
03:52<SamanthaD>Question: Do you folks think it would be better to hack a consist autoreplace on top of the current system or to do away with the old system and perhaps re-implement it on top of the new system?
03:52<@planetmaker>in parts
03:53<SamanthaD>in terms of interface, not code
03:53<aquse>planetmaker Which ones you own?
03:53<@planetmaker>replace current replacement thing by new consist one, SamanthaD
03:53<Aristide>HI !
03:53<@planetmaker>and possibly integrate autorenew
03:53<@planetmaker>aquse, #openttdcoop
03:53<SamanthaD>planetmaker: that's what I was thinking... consist replace plus a macro of sorts
03:53<aquse>I'll join it, lemme just get my ZNC server on these channels.
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04:02<SamanthaD>Alright, well... let me finish goofing around with this game :3
04:02<@planetmaker>macro... yes. depends on which kind :-)
04:05<SamanthaD>planetmaker: a little tool that does something akin to "create an autoreplace rule such that each consist with containing this vehicle should be replaced by this other vehicle in that location"
04:05<SamanthaD>I mean... it would generate as many autoreplace rules as needed to replace each car of type A to a car of type B
04:06<SamanthaD>do you think people would really miss being able to say "replace all X with Y" when it comes to trains?
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04:11<SamanthaD>Morning NGC3982
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04:16<SamanthaD>hello Wolf01
04:18<@planetmaker>SamanthaD, consist replacement - in my mind - works like that you define a (group of) trains which will be replaced by another type of train
04:18<@planetmaker>no fancy per-wagon rules. just this train by that train
04:18<@planetmaker>much easier to grasp
04:19<@planetmaker>anyway... lake. BBQ. And the last czech beer :D
04:19<SamanthaD>Have fun!
04:19<SamanthaD>planetmaker: and thanks for your input
04:19<@planetmaker>see you all (much) later or tomorrow
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04:47<V453000>can a railtype newGRF use all 0-15 rail IDs?
04:48<V453000>with e.g. original train set
04:48<V453000>I guess I would need to disable the original rails first?
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04:50<Eddi|zuHause>you cannot disable the original railtypes, you can only change them
04:52<V453000>so 0 1 2 3 has to be rail, elrl, mono, mglv?
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05:04<V453000>:D IT WORKS :D
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05:09<LordAro>i don't care if it's techically inaccurate, it's still funny
05:14<SamanthaD>only if you kill -s 9
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06:15<roboboy>what is the linux command for creating a diff file?
06:16<LordAro>which version control system?
06:16<LordAro>"svn diff > outfile"
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06:25<roboboy>and Thank you
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06:43<Zuu>LordAro: If you want to make a more readable patch, add "-U 5", "-U 10" or even more, which increase the number of context rows (deafult=3)
06:44<LordAro>i did not know that :L
06:44<Zuu>Of course, if the patch is very long, -U 10 may be too extreme, but if you only have a few changes, it helps reviewing the patch to extend the number of context rows.
06:47<roboboy>well my patch only changed one line
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07:10<TrueBrain>well, my patch changes nothing! SO! THERE! I WIN!
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07:27<Eddi|zuHause>i have even more patches that i never wrote
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10:13<frosch123> <- submitting something like that to ottd would result in "can be done with newgrf". what would widelands guys do? :p
10:15<AquSe>They would do it with newgrf.
10:16<frosch123>widelands does ini file scripting
10:16<frosch123>and yes, that means that the same key can appear multiple times in a section , and that the order defines execution order
10:16<frosch123>(at least it looks like that)
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10:23<Eddi|zuHause>frosch123: working on infinite mines? :p
10:23<Eddi|zuHause>PS: i always thought widelands lacks trains :p
10:23<frosch123>yeah, but the latter is harder to do i believe
10:24<frosch123>and yes, i hope above patch does infinite mines and well, and limited trees, fish and stones
10:24<frosch123>which should hopefully now allow me to fill the whole map with active economy
10:25<frosch123>instead of slowly moving over the map and leaving useless desert behind
10:25<Eddi|zuHause>in my mind it was something like "train station" is a kind of warehouse (like dock), and rail lines are laid like ordinary paths, but can only end at a station
10:25<frosch123>well, it should require manual routing and orders :)
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10:27<Eddi|zuHause>trains would in that case run automatically like ships
10:27<frosch123>that's boring
10:28<frosch123>and ships were the most broken thing in s2
10:28<frosch123>haven't checked whether widelands has something like that
10:28<frosch123>large distance transport needs manual routing/loading/unloading
10:28<Eddi|zuHause>they have a multiplayer scenario with ships, but afaik, "exploring" is not implemented yet
10:28<frosch123>hmm, so what tribe to play?
10:29<frosch123>i play without fog :p
10:29<Eddi|zuHause>whenever i set "random", i end up with empire :p
10:29<Eddi|zuHause>"exploring" as in "send out to build a remote dock"
10:29<frosch123>what is more fun? pig farms, fish breeders or game keepers?
10:30<frosch123>anyway, since i changed mines to not run out
10:30<frosch123>maybe atlanteans, because they have no deeper mines?
10:30<Eddi|zuHause>with empire you're totally lost if the starting location doesn't allow marble mines
10:31<Eddi|zuHause>what i missed in widelands is s1-style "random" maps
10:31<frosch123>stating location does not matter, i am playing non-competitive on a huge map
10:31<frosch123>yeah, i looked into mapgen a few minutes ago
10:31<frosch123>but there is no obvious way to alter the resource distribution
10:32<frosch123>all resource types have just equal probability
10:32<frosch123>which does not match the ingame requirements at all :p
10:32<frosch123>so mapgen maps always have way too much stone, and way too few coal
10:32<Eddi|zuHause>just make coal from trees :p
10:33<frosch123>yeah, but that has something like factor 8:1
10:33<Eddi|zuHause>(that is horribly inefficient, as it requires like 5 trees, but it can only store 8, so it can't have continuous production)
10:34<frosch123>which is fine, and i used it before, but then the next problem is iore
10:34<frosch123>so, stable economy ftw!
10:35<Eddi|zuHause>frosch123: re endless mines: there's somewhere a calculation that "empty" mines have a 1:20 chance of producing something, maybe you can just alter that to 1:1 or 1:2
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10:35<Eddi|zuHause>(that would imply you can set mines anywhere)
10:35<frosch123>nah, that's like playing ottd on a flat map
10:35<frosch123>there must be map restricitons to force you into insane track layouts
10:36<AquSe>You guys talking about a mod or wat D:
10:36<frosch123>i just don't like that hills are completely useless once they run out of resources
10:36<Eddi|zuHause>yeah. i understand your problem
10:36<frosch123>and they also run out way to fast, it's hardly worth to build the production faciilites :p
10:37<frosch123>and to move everything is like starting a new game
10:37<frosch123>and somewhat limits your overall size, which i do not like :p
10:37<Eddi|zuHause>that must be your gameplay style. on the preconstructed maps against AIs i usually run out by the time i can easily overrun the AI :p
10:37<Eddi|zuHause>so technically it IS balanced :)
10:38<frosch123>ok, if there would be trains to efficiently import raw ore from distant mines :p
10:38<frosch123>Eddi|zuHause: overrunning the ai is not the goal
10:38<frosch123>i want to fill the map with running economy
10:38<frosch123>and stockpile 100k of knights and bread
10:38<Eddi|zuHause>probably not :)
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10:39<frosch123>hmm, ok, let's try empire
10:39<frosch123>just to see how worker upgrades work
10:40<Eddi|zuHause>frosch123: maybe you want to mod it that only the deep(est) mines run endlessly (i.e. prevent amount changing from 1 to 0)
10:40<Eddi|zuHause>then you're still forced to upgrade the mines
10:40<frosch123>bah, wrong map choice
10:46<frosch123>oh, new buttons in the military builingd
10:46<frosch123>prefer rookies :)
10:47<AquSe>Is there a way to make bridge building possible if the height of the start and end isn't the same?
10:48<frosch123>it can differ by one :p
10:48<AquSe>But not by 2 ):
10:48<frosch123>build a hill on one side, or lower the terrain on the other side
10:48<AquSe>Yeah, I know.
10:48<frosch123>or, go somewhere else
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13:14<Eddi|zuHause>hm, S1 certainly doesn't do "rushes" the same way as S2 or widelands does
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13:18<megakacktus>So I was hacking away at my filelist filter last night
13:20<megakacktus>in SetDataTip(STR_BLAH,STR_BLAH_TWO), are the STR_BLAH arguments defined in the string system?
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13:21<Eddi|zuHause>STR_WHATEVER is defined in english.txt
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13:43<megakacktus>so far this is what I have... it doesn't compile tho :(
13:45<@DorpsGek>Commit by translators :: r25646 /trunk/src/lang (croatian.txt japanese.txt) (2013-08-03 17:45:15 UTC)
13:45<@DorpsGek>-Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
13:45<@DorpsGek>croatian - 2 changes by VoyagerOne
13:45<@DorpsGek>japanese - 1 changes by guppy
13:48<frosch123>megakacktus: what fails?
13:49<megakacktus> error: 'WID_FILTER_BOX' was not declared in this scope
13:49<frosch123>your enum value is named WID_SL_FILTER_BOX
13:49<megakacktus>Maybe I should check my own work :)
13:49<frosch123>also, your editor does weird things with whitespace
13:49<megakacktus>I used tabs in vim
13:50<megakacktus>I realized my mistake and corrected it
13:59<megakacktus>does anyone here use vim for ottd development?
13:59<frosch123>albert does
13:59<frosch123>but he's not here
13:59*blathijs nominally does, though I hardly code on openttd anymore :-)
14:00<blathijs>megakacktus: Looks like openttd sources need shiftwidth=8 softtabstop=8 tabstop=8 noexpandtab for vim to make things work as expected
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14:09<frosch123>eh, what, soldiers now leave military building themself to for training
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14:19<Eddi|zuHause>they leave if a better soldier is approaching
14:19<Eddi|zuHause>presumably they don't do that if you select "prefer rookies", but i haven't tested
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14:55<Eddi|zuHause>man this guy must have like a hundred knights in his castle
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15:04<Eddi|zuHause>but his military strength is continuously dropping, so i must be doing something right :)
15:09<frosch123>can't say the same
15:09<frosch123>opponents military strength is still growing faster than mine :p
15:10<scshunt>what game?
15:10<frosch123>not sure whether it is due to my mines, or the automatic soldier blanancing
15:10<frosch123>but ai seems way stronger
15:10<Wolf01>ottd crusades edition
15:10<frosch123>than last time i played
15:17<scshunt>Wolf01: huh
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15:17<frosch123>scshunt: actually s1 for eddi, patched wl for me
15:20<Eddi|zuHause>yay castle is down
15:20<Eddi|zuHause>now for the rest of his houses
15:25<Eddi|zuHause>there seems to be some bug where houses show white flags even though they're close to the enemy
15:32<Eddi|zuHause>man these last few are persistent... i should maybe wait for some trained soldiers instead of immediately sending out the untrained
15:33<Eddi|zuHause>although that has worked out fine so far...
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15:45<Eddi|zuHause>especially nasty are those people randomly running about, clinging to the last patches of land. they block everything...
15:45<frosch123>yeah, never burn the last warehouse
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16:01<megakacktus>So my little patch compiles successfully, but it doesn't appear to make any change to the interface
16:04<megakacktus>I'm more than a little confused
16:05<megakacktus>here's the diff
16:05<megakacktus>The editbox doesn't do anything yet, I just want it to sit there for the time being
16:07<megakacktus>any suggestions?
16:08<Zuu>megakacktus: I miss the OnEditText or similar member
16:08<Zuu>Eg. a method which is called when the edit box receives an event. Look on another window with an Edit box for how that is done.
16:08<krinn>anyone got a script/url for missing braket check ?
16:09*krinn hates vim
16:09<megakacktus>Zuu: Do I need to derive the load window from the QueryStringBaseWindow as well?
16:09<Zuu>You probably also need to define the text buffer somewhere. Before multiple edit boxes was introduced, that was made by overriding a different window class from usual. But how you do it now is not somthing I know by heart but wolud need to look up.
16:10<Zuu>Eg. have a look on the sign list window.
16:10<Zuu>It has a filter text (which was one of my first larger patches)
16:11*Zuu likes vim
16:11<megakacktus>which file is it in?
16:11*megakacktus uses vim
16:11<Zuu>probably src/sign_gui.cpp
16:11*megakacktus takes a look...
16:12<Zuu>krinn: There is no reason to fear vim. :-p
16:12<Zuu>But if you don't like it, use something else.
16:12<krinn>i don't want to learn 10x keyboards to use something
16:12<krinn>yeah, but i lack the braket checks, so i need a script for that
16:13<megakacktus>Zuu: what does this window do in the actual game?
16:13<Zuu>megakacktus: It shows a list of all (text) signs in the game.
16:14<Zuu>In the landscape toolbar there is a button to build signs. All signs that are constructed in the game will then show up in this window.
16:14<megakacktus>Where do I find the window?
16:14<megakacktus>I know how to place signs but I can't find the window :-/
16:15<Zuu>5:th button menu, last item.
16:15<Zuu>The same button as you open the minimap
16:15<megakacktus>*oh ok
16:16<Zuu>There is also a text filter in the online content window, but that window is probably a more complicated example.
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16:18<Eddi|zuHause>ooh, finally one came through :p
16:18<Eddi|zuHause>it's not even "the last warehouse", even patches of land not connected to a warehouse cause this "issue"
16:19<Zuu>Hmm, someone removed the posibility to unfocus the sign list edit box using the escape key. Now you need to use the mouse to exit typing and close that window.
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16:21<megakacktus>is there a good tool to measure distances in pixels on my screen?
16:22<Zuu>Print screen, paste in your favoruite bitmap paint tool.
16:22<Eddi|zuHause>if it's straight use the autorail tool, otherwise the level land tool might do it
16:22<Eddi|zuHause>a tile always has the same amount of pixels (on normal zoom)
16:26<megakacktus>What does SetResize() do for a widget?
16:27<megakacktus>I mean SetResize(int, int)
16:29<Zuu>I would lookup the definition/declaration of the method and read the Doxygen comment for it as well as possible looking at the code of the method if I'm still uncertain about what it does.
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16:33<Zuu>It is also possible to use the doxygen browser at, but I personally tend to just use the methods in Visual Studio to lookup where a method is defined/declared as I have the full source of OpenTTD right at my finger tips.
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17:08<krinn>ok, if anyone interrest, try geany (text editor), that little thing is nice
17:11<frosch123>Zuu: ESC clears the filter
17:11<frosch123>but ok, if it is already empty it could unfocus
17:13<Zuu>Now you can open the window all using keyboard, find the sign, hit enter to get there, but then you need to use the mouse to close the window. (to open the window using hotkey, you need to bind a global hotkey to it, which is not set by default)
17:14<frosch123> <- something like that?
17:15<frosch123>hmm, does not work :p
17:18<frosch123>megakacktus: SetResize in the widget tree defintion sets the resize step size of a widget
17:18<frosch123>(0, 0) means not resizeable
17:18<frosch123>(1, 0) only resizeable in X, (10, 0) only resizeable in X in steps of 10 pixels
17:19<frosch123>and no, you do not need to derive from QueryStringBaseWindow anymore
17:19<frosch123>i guess that class does not even exist anymore :p
17:21<megakacktus>Yeah, the wiki is horribly out-of-date
17:21<megakacktus>I tried following the instructions there for adding an editbox and it popped about 10 errors :p
17:23<megakacktus>ah well
17:23<megakacktus>I need to go, see you all later
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17:26<@DorpsGek>Commit by frosch :: r25647 trunk/src/window.cpp (2013-08-03 21:26:49 UTC)
17:26<@DorpsGek>-Add: If an editbox is configured to be cleared with ESC, but the editbox is already empty, unselect the editbox instead.
17:29<Zuu>frosch123: Looks good. I've verified that UnfocusFocusedWidget should mark the widget as dirty
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19:56<tanog>hey any tech support here?
19:57<tanog>i have a pretty weird problem on multiplayer
19:59<tanog>when i join a multiplayer game it goes into not responding even tho i can see the game playing perfectly in the background+ people talking in chat
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20:01<Eddi|zuHause>thanks for waiting 60s for an answer at 2AM
20:02<NGC3982>It's the small things that makes IRC wonderfull.
20:03<frosch123>Eddi|zuHause: first time i had to build two weaving mills :)
20:04<Eddi|zuHause>how many smiths you're supplying?
20:04<frosch123>3 armor
20:04<Eddi|zuHause>i think the most i ever had was two
20:05<frosch123>yeah, and usually it is hard to make them run at more than 50%
20:05<frosch123>these are full load 100%
20:05<Eddi|zuHause>usually what i'm lacking the most is melting capacity
20:05<frosch123>never dreamt of 3 training camps at > 90%
20:06<frosch123>10 smelting works :p
20:06<Eddi|zuHause>training typically runs out of bread, especially on rather dense maps
20:06<frosch123>57 farms
20:06<frosch123>but i am running low on wood, apparently 28 jacks are too few
20:07<Eddi|zuHause>but it's weird how widelands and S1 can be so different from each other
20:08<Eddi|zuHause>in S1, i never have production capacity problems like this, they're mostly transport problems
20:08<frosch123>yeah, in s1 you got flooded with raw materials
20:08<frosch123>which is also the case for my patched widelands :)
20:09<Eddi|zuHause>i played a size 5 map, and the mines were just starting to run out as i was basically finished
20:10<Eddi|zuHause>technically with 4 players, but one AI that started right next to me was broken, it kept burning down the buildings it just started
20:11<Eddi|zuHause>the second AI was pretty much defeated by the 3rd when i reached them
20:12<Eddi|zuHause>then it went back and forth a bit between their trained knights and my untrained ones
20:12<Eddi|zuHause>until i gathered up enough gold
20:12<frosch123>"training" in s1 was weird
20:13<Eddi|zuHause>yeah, you need to keep them in the warehouse
20:13<frosch123>it was more like giving them something to protect
20:13<frosch123>so they fealt worthy or so :p
20:14<frosch123>yeah, iirc they also trained somewhat in fortresses
20:14<frosch123>so it kind of depended on the number of guys in one place
20:14<Eddi|zuHause>well there's two parts to it, one is the knight level (amount of time spent in the warehouse). and the other the "morale" (amount of gold)
20:14<Eddi|zuHause>gold is unimportant for defense
20:15<Eddi|zuHause>only considered when attacking
20:15<frosch123>did you read the manual again? :p
20:15<Eddi|zuHause>not that part :p
20:15<Eddi|zuHause>that i remember from when i last read it as a kid :p
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20:17<Eddi|zuHause>anyway, i found it way more effective to just throw 10 untrained soldiers at one trained one
20:18<Eddi|zuHause>instead of trying to get them trained
20:18<Eddi|zuHause>keep the trained ones as defense, and use the untrained ones as cannon fodder for attacking :)
20:18<frosch123>hmm, i think i always went for effieciency
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20:19<frosch123>exchange them until they are only the best to attack
20:19<Eddi|zuHause>i only had like 9 top level ones in my game
20:21<Eddi|zuHause>i thought it better to attack and get some buffer zone between me and them instead of getting an unlucky fight and have half of my essential buildings burnt down
20:21<frosch123>likely :)
20:22<Eddi|zuHause>and with that buffer zone he still came awfully close, as the sneaky bastard always attacked the most central building
20:22<Eddi|zuHause>and can't put fortresses everywhere
20:22<Eddi|zuHause>so you're defending with two or three guys
20:23<Eddi|zuHause>not all of which are trained properly
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20:25<frosch123>gah, i hate it when trees sometimes manage to spread across the ocean
20:26<frosch123>if you do not notice it early enough, all your farms are covered in trees
20:26<Eddi|zuHause>yeah, random spreading of trees is the weirdest feature of widelands...
20:27<frosch123>well, it helps in the beginning
20:27<frosch123>lateron you have to fight the jungle to get to the enemy :p
20:27<frosch123>sometimes if i am low on soliders, i defend with foresters :)
20:27<frosch123>remove the military building, so they cannot attack them
20:28<frosch123>and plant trees everywhere, so they cannot build buildings either :p
20:29<frosch123>oh, i ran out of beer
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21:29<megakacktus>What does OSK stand for?
21:57<+glx>on screen keyboard
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---Logclosed Sun Aug 04 00:00:42 2013