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#openttd IRC Logs for 2013-08-09

---Logopened Fri Aug 09 00:00:11 2013
---Daychanged Fri Aug 09 2013
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00:17<OldManPopo>Can someone help me figure out why I cannot seem to refit any vehicles with the ECS NewGRF's installed?
00:20<OldManPopo>I know, for example, that the Oil Tanker can be refitted to haul fertilizer. However, it doesn't show that the vehicle is refittable in the "All Available vehicles" list. Inside the depot, the Refit button is ghosted out
00:23<OldManPopo>Is there a game setting somewhere I've missed?
00:28<roboboy>Are you using a vehicle NewGRF?
00:29<OldManPopo>No
00:30<OldManPopo>I should say no, the ecs vectors handled it last time (i thought)
00:34<OldManPopo>I didn't have any special vehicle NewGRF's on my last installation. On my reinstallation, I thought it would just come with it :)
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00:42<roboboy>The standard vehicles by default don't handle any new cargoes
00:42<roboboy>there is a GRF called old wagons new cargos or similar
00:43<roboboy>http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=26&t=37810
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00:57<OldManPopo>Ok, I'll have to look that one up
00:58<OldManPopo>That will also allow trucks to handle the new goods as well? I tend to build road routes until I have a decent supply of money
00:59<OldManPopo>Well cool, that got the trains fixed. Need to find one for the Lorries now. Thank you for the help :)
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02:22<dihedral>good morning
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02:52<@Rubidium>moin dihedral
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04:32<dihedral>good morning Rubidium
04:33<dihedral>oh - i am a little late with my response :-)
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04:42<@Alberth>moin
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04:59*LordAro waves hi
05:03<@Alberth>hi hi
05:16<@Alberth>hmm, encoding a train with nml should be trivial right?
05:40<roboboy>I would think so
05:42<Eddi|zuHause>"almost trivial" :p
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05:43<@peter1138>compared to hand crafting a newgrf, maybe
05:48<Eddi|zuHause>well, someone could make a GUI around the CETS generator stcript. with a few modifications it would be able to create simple train grfs by just setting stats and putting in pictures
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11:27<SamanthaD>so... I was back in r24032 applying a patch. Once applied I ran hg commit so I could run diffs against it easily. I checked that everything was normal with hg status and decided to compile and test to see if the patch worked correctly in r24032 before trying to merge it into the nightly...
11:27<SamanthaD>anyway... long story short is make modified four of the files that mercurial was tracking!
11:28<SamanthaD>bin/baseset/openttd.grf, bin/baseset/orig_dos.obj, orig_dos_de.obj orig_win.obj
11:28<SamanthaD>the last three are tweaking the MD5s for openttd.grf
11:35<@Alberth>yeah, you need the right grfcodec version for that
11:35<@Alberth>just revert the modified files
11:37<@Alberth>they are in the repo for people that have no grfcodec at their system
11:37<SamanthaD>I'm just a bit puzzled why make modified them at all
11:37<SamanthaD>they're not from the version I built off of
11:37<SamanthaD>they're not the same as the current nightly, either
11:38<SamanthaD>weird <.<
11:38<SamanthaD>okay, reverting
11:38<SamanthaD>DIE INEXPLICABLE FILES!
11:40<@Alberth>you have grfcodec at your system so it builds the files. Unfortunately, you have a different version than <some-version>, and the result is slightly different
11:40<@Alberth>which hg is very good at detecting :p
11:40<SamanthaD>oh! I understand. And they're in the repository because you don't normally start with them
11:41<@Alberth>they are in the repo, so openttd developers don't need to have grfcodec
11:41<SamanthaD>ah
11:42<@Alberth>where openttd developers is bigger than the list of official devs :)
11:42<@Alberth>ie everybody writing or compiling patches
11:42<SamanthaD>yay! I'm a dev now!
11:42<SamanthaD>:P
11:42<@Alberth>I knew it! :D
11:43<SamanthaD>I've decided that instead of maintaining Advanced Timetables and Separation I'm going to try and re-write the automatic timetable management logic in it into Slim Timetables
11:43<SamanthaD>people seem to like it better
11:43<@Alberth>people making newgrfs for openttd could also be called openttd developers :p
11:43<SamanthaD>that... and whoever wrote ATS seems to have a dread phobia for commenting their source >.<
11:44<@Alberth>it seems a common phobia amongst programmers :(
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11:45<@Alberth>so we get Slim Advanced Timetables :)
11:45<@Alberth>"Slim" always make me smile, it means "smart" in my native language :)
11:46<SamanthaD>haha! Yeah
11:46<SamanthaD>I really like Slim Timetables but... I don't like that every time I modify a route or I replace the vehicles I have to remember to run "auto fill"
11:47<@Alberth>yeah, its not so smart thus :)
11:47<SamanthaD>I gotta love the difficulty settings
11:47<SamanthaD>I nuked my configuration file since I'm using such a different version and I didn't want it causing hard-to-trace problems, eh?
11:48<@Alberth>sounds like a good precaution :)
11:48<SamanthaD>anyway, I enable most of the cheats and give myself 200mil in moneys and it's complaining that I can't build while paused :p
11:48<SamanthaD>"NO! Difficulty settings won't allow it!"
11:48<LordAro>should probably enable build-while-pause when you start cheating :P
11:48<@Alberth>there is setting for that too :)
11:49<LordAro>i mean automagically
11:51<SamanthaD>maybe a better way to do it would be to have a shortcut to some of the cheat-y options in the cheat dialog?
11:52<@Alberth>depending on who you talk to, you could add 1/2 of the settings then, I think :)
11:52<SamanthaD>Okay... maybe the cheat-y settings that are useful for devs doing quality assurance :p
11:53<@Rubidium>try Alt-0 and Alt-1
11:53<SamanthaD>considering that's pretty much what the cheats are FOR in the first place
11:53<SamanthaD>what do those do?
11:53<@Rubidium>they're useful for devs doing quality assurance
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11:54<@Rubidium>if they don't do anything, then you're not using a debug build
11:54<LordAro>...what do they do then? :L
11:55<SamanthaD>oh! I should probably compile with the debug builds
11:55<SamanthaD>oops
11:55<@Alberth>:D
11:55<SamanthaD>that's okay, I don't expect anything to not work
11:55<LordAro>of course, it's always a bug in the compiler
11:55<SamanthaD>I'm just doing this so that if something STOPS working I know it was my fault :p
11:57<SamanthaD>at least it had better work... the forum thread said it was a "stable" version
11:57<LordAro>woah, when i compile with ./configure --enable-debug=3, i get lots of warnings..
11:58<LordAro>" # warning _FORTIFY_SOURCE requires compiling with optimization (-O)"
11:58<@Rubidium>then your compiler forces _FORTIFY_SOURCE it seems
11:59<LordAro>just 'standard' gcc, as far as i can tell
11:59<LordAro>gcc (GCC) 4.8.1 20130725 (prerelease)
12:00<LordAro>and alt+0 ... still doesn't do anything
12:01<LordAro>meh
12:01*LordAro -> afk
12:18<Xaroth|Work>twerk: had already suspected something like that, but im on vacation now so itll have to wait until next week
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12:23<TWerkhoven>:)
12:23<TWerkhoven>enjoy your holidays
12:28<Eddi|zuHause>so what's your excuse for being "|work" while on holiday?
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12:28<SamanthaD>alt+0 crashes everything...
12:29<SamanthaD>something tells me that's what it's supposed to do
12:29<Eddi|zuHause>it's a "feature
12:29<Eddi|zuHause>"
12:29<Eddi|zuHause>for debug builds
12:29<SamanthaD>yup!
12:29<SamanthaD>for generating arbitrary stack traces, right?
12:29<Eddi|zuHause>something like that
12:30<SamanthaD>so... what's alt+1 supposed to do?
12:30<SamanthaD>'cuz that doesn't seem to do squat
12:30<Eddi|zuHause>no idea. there's probably a list somewhere
12:30<Eddi|zuHause>there were some blitter test functions in there
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12:31<Eddi|zuHause>like instead of drawing a sprite, draw a random-coloured rectangle
12:31<SamanthaD>ah, I see!
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13:21<LordAro>alt+0 doesn't do anything for me..
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13:45<@DorpsGek>Commit by translators :: r25703 trunk/src/lang/czech.txt (2013-08-09 17:45:09 UTC)
13:45<@DorpsGek>-Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
13:45<@DorpsGek>czech - 2 changes by Eskymak
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14:20<Xaroth|Work>eddi: shell i normally use @work, best accessible from spain apparently
14:27<@peter1138>bastards
14:30<@DorpsGek>Commit by rubidium :: r25704 /trunk/bin/baseset (no_music.obm no_sound.obs) (2013-08-09 18:30:33 UTC)
14:30<@DorpsGek>-Update: baseset translations
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14:39<andythenorth>o/
14:40<@Alberth>\o
14:41<andythenorth>Alberth is now a newgrf developer :o
14:42<@Alberth>you're still a lot of vehicles and other items ahead of me :p
14:43<@DorpsGek>Commit by rubidium :: r25705 /trunk/src (8 files in 3 dirs) (2013-08-09 18:43:44 UTC)
14:43<@DorpsGek>-Fix: a number of typos (inspired by 90c920601c84975acb694f3673e2beb08b013753)
14:44<andythenorth>so is new fruit store done yet?
14:45<fonsinchen>who is 90c920601c84975acb694f3673e2beb08b013753?
14:45<@Rubidium>s/who/what/
14:45<fonsinchen>some git ID I guess
14:46<fonsinchen>It doesn't reside in my repository, though.
14:47<@Rubidium>it'd fit in andy's new store though ;)
14:48<andythenorth>I have a new store? :o
14:49<@Alberth>just like I am suddenly a new grf developer :)
14:50<fonsinchen>I'd buy it
14:51<@Alberth>andy, and you can sell it already :)
14:52<@Rubidium>Alberth: you're definitely a NewGRF developer; I can see at least 65 NewGRF development commits of you
14:53<@Alberth>I was just shuffling code around :p
14:54<fonsinchen>So, if I believe that Alberth is a new grf developer I get andy's store? Nice
14:54<@Rubidium>Alberth: nope, mostly proper sprite coding
14:54<@Alberth>:o
14:55<fonsinchen>Should I start up my G4 ibook and try to reproduce FS#5694?
14:55<@Rubidium>feel free to do so ;)
14:55<fonsinchen>I'm curious if it still works ...
14:55<@Alberth>good excuse to try it :)
14:56<@Alberth>Rubidium: so where did you find those commits then?
14:56<fonsinchen>Now if I knew where it is ...
14:57<@Alberth>lol
14:57<andythenorth>G4 iBook
14:57<andythenorth>happy memories :O
14:57<@Rubidium>Alberth: can't remember zbasebuild?
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14:57<Wolf01>moin
14:57<@Alberth>hi Wolf01
14:58<@Alberth>Rubidium: oh, of course!
14:58<andythenorth>fonsinchen: does yours have fingerprints etched into the white case by finger acid?
15:00<fonsinchen>No it's more like brown all over the place where I rest my palms
15:00<fonsinchen>Yeah, it works
15:01<andythenorth>boing
15:01<andythenorth>then wait a bit
15:06<fonsinchen>Whopping 800 Mhz PPC
15:08<andythenorth>512MB?
15:08<fonsinchen>640
15:09<fonsinchen>I've upgraded from 256 at some point
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15:09<andythenorth>bonus
15:09<andythenorth>64GB?
15:09<fonsinchen>I've upgraded the hard drive, too. To 120 GB I think
15:10<fonsinchen>But most of that is reserved for linux
15:10<andythenorth>nostalgia :)
15:10<andythenorth>I don't miss the crappy plastic macs
15:11<SamanthaD>my terminal emulator and emacs do not get along...
15:11<SamanthaD>it thinks that M-v means "Open up the view menu" :p
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15:17<fonsinchen>I remember why I hate Mac OS. Where is "~" on that silly keyboard ...
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15:19*SamanthaD goes to look at one of her apple keyboards
15:20<SamanthaD>fonsinchen: It's where it normally is on my keyboard!
15:20<fonsinchen>Not on this laptop. But don't bother I found a way around it.
15:21<fonsinchen>The crash is totally reproducible
15:23<fonsinchen>The interesting question is if I can get a proper build environment going on that machine
15:23<fonsinchen>I somehow remember it doesn't like my outdated Xcode
15:23<SamanthaD>if all else fails, document it and claim you did it on purpose ;)
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15:29*SamanthaD is learning emacs
15:29<SamanthaD>you gotta love the tutorial
15:29<SamanthaD>it feels like it hasn't been updated since the early 80s
15:29<SamanthaD>"If you terminal has arrow keys..."
15:29<@Alberth>it probably isn't
15:29<SamanthaD>My terminal has arrow keys :p
15:29<SamanthaD>it's also not a terminal!
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15:30<@Alberth>in that case, I never used a terminal :p
15:30<SamanthaD>Well... I guess I've sorta used a terminal
15:31<SamanthaD>does ssh-ing into a remote server turn my laptop into a terminal?
15:31<fonsinchen>Internal compiler error
15:31<SamanthaD>who knows!
15:31<fonsinchen>great
15:31<SamanthaD>fonsinchen: what compiler are you using?
15:31<@Alberth>SamanthaD: only if the arrow keys are unusable?
15:31<fonsinchen>g++ 4.0.0
15:32<SamanthaD>weird...
15:32<fonsinchen>from Mac OS 10.4 after all
15:32<fonsinchen>This is not weird. It's ancient
15:33<SamanthaD>why don't you upgrade g++?
15:33<SamanthaD>my terminal tells me I'm using 4.7 and I use Debian Stable for christ'sakes
15:33<fonsinchen>Can you do that on Mac OS?
15:33<SamanthaD>I guess?
15:33<fonsinchen>You need XCode for that or roll your own
15:34<fonsinchen>Rolling your own will be a pain in the ass
15:34<fonsinchen>And Xcode isn't maintained anymore on such old systems
15:34<SamanthaD>*shrugs* I just did `apt-get install build-essentials` and was happy
15:35<fonsinchen>Well, another reason why I hate Mac OS, after all.
15:35<SamanthaD>maybe you should consider upgrading your operating systems?
15:35<SamanthaD>I mean... compiler problems are the least of your concerns when running an unmaintained OS
15:35<fonsinchen>The whole purpose of it is fixing FS#5694
15:35<fonsinchen>Otherwise I wouldn't have dug out that machine
15:36<SamanthaD>ooooooooh... I get it
15:36*SamanthaD ponders... perhaps instead of compiling it on that machine you could compile it on another machine, targeted for this machine?
15:36<fonsinchen>I'd need another Mac for that
15:36<@Rubidium>fonsinchen: but gcc 4.0.0 is (officially) still supported
15:36<fonsinchen>Which I don't have
15:36<fonsinchen>hrmmmm
15:37<fonsinchen>Maybe I should debug that, then
15:37<@Rubidium>what's the error you're getting?
15:37<fonsinchen>It fails in ai_gui.cpp:1309
15:37<fonsinchen>Internal compiler error: bus error
15:37<@Rubidium>what version of openttd?
15:38<fonsinchen>1.3.2
15:38<@Rubidium>just try whether commenting out that bit helps
15:39<@Rubidium>though... the supported is more like: we haven't heard any compile problems with it yet. Not sure whether it was recently tested
15:40<fonsinchen>works if I remove the function call and just set that num to -1
15:40<fonsinchen>Let's wait for another half hour until it compiles the rest
15:40<fonsinchen>Then I can tell you more
15:40<fonsinchen>Oh, another internal compiler error
15:41<@Rubidium>again of CheckHotkey?
15:41<fonsinchen>yes
15:41<fonsinchen>airport_gui.cpp:104
15:41<SamanthaD>do you really need XCode to compile stuff?!
15:41<@Rubidium>#define CheckHotkey(...) (-1) ;)
15:42<andythenorth>XCode is easiest way to get GCC
15:42<andythenorth>there are other routes
15:42<@Rubidium>fonsinchen: alternatively, if you don't need the debugger, we could use the compile farm to build binaries (but that takes about 30 minutes per build)
15:43<fonsinchen>Well, I do need the debugger to find out anything more interesting about that bug
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15:43<fonsinchen>Or do you have another idea how to do that?
15:44<@Rubidium>loads and loads of printfs? (yay desync debugging)
15:45<fonsinchen>nah, I'll try to fix the CheckHotKeyMatch first and then go on to 5694
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15:47<megakacktus>I've got a noobie question: what exactly do the arguments to the GetString() function do?
15:47*megakacktus couldn't find the answer in the docs :L
15:50<@Alberth>GetString(buf, STR_INDUSTRY_NAME, lastof(buf)); with char buffer[512] is not clear?
15:50<@Alberth>euhm char buf[512];
15:51<fonsinchen>Well, the aidebug_hotkeys are defined in ai_gui.cpp:1400 but used in line 1309
15:51<fonsinchen>or did I miss anything?
15:51<fonsinchen>oh, forget it
15:52<megakacktus>wait... never mind...
15:58<fonsinchen>It actually works if you don't define the function inline
15:59<fonsinchen>So order of definition seems to trigger the compiler bug after all
16:03<fonsinchen>Same for airport_gui.cpp
16:04<@Alberth>good that you found a way around the compile problem
16:04<fonsinchen>I already worked around another problem before
16:05<fonsinchen>-mmacosx-version-min is not supported by that compiler
16:05<fonsinchen>So I edited it out of the makefile
16:06<fonsinchen>and it warns about MAC_OS_X_VERSION_10_5 not being defined all the time
16:08<@Alberth>just define it :p
16:08<fonsinchen>it wouldn't exactly be true ...
16:08<@Alberth>yeah, it might break things
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16:35<fonsinchen>Actually it's important not to define the HAVE_CONST_ICONV
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16:35<fonsinchen>So I'm compiling again from the beginning now :(
16:36<__ln__>22:33 < SamanthaD> why don't you upgrade g++? 22:33 < fonsinchen> Can you do that on Mac OS? <--- upgrading would probably lead to many kind of issues
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17:21<fonsinchen>Uh-oh, lots of errors from wnd_quartz.mm
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17:35<fonsinchen>It's done compiling
17:36<fonsinchen>It actually starts and behaves normally (except for lzo not being compiled in and thus the start game not being there)
17:36<@Rubidium>"... and does not reproduce the bug I'm looking for" ?
17:36<fonsinchen>true
17:36<fonsinchen>I found tons of other bugs, though
17:37<fonsinchen>Maybe one of those has a side effect that causes FS#5694
17:37<__ln__>no you can't have, it's free software and therefore bug-free
17:38<fonsinchen>I'll prepare some patches tomorrow. Then I can give you a different meme.
17:38<fonsinchen>Oh, it throws tons of iconv errors
17:39<fonsinchen>error converting <some garbage with path in it>. Errno 92
17:40<__ln__>what are you doing actually? compiling trunk on 10.4/ppc?
17:41<fonsinchen>no, actually 1.3.2
17:41<fonsinchen>but on 10.4/ppc
17:42<__ln__>good, supporting ppc is important
17:48<fonsinchen>Yes, PPC has a great future ahead. Go ask IBM
17:48<fonsinchen>good night
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18:10<Wolf01>'night
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---Logclosed Sat Aug 10 00:00:50 2013