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#openttd IRC Logs for 2013-08-15

---Logopened Thu Aug 15 00:00:00 2013
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01:30<maddy_>good morning all
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03:39<@planetmaker>moin
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04:05<Arkabzol>Dance music sounds a lot better with the noise of trains and buses starting.
04:05<Arkabzol>;)
04:05<Arkabzol>Playing OpenTTD while listening to music.
04:06<V453000>I only tried death metal ... sounded pretty good too
04:14<SamanthaD>\o
04:15<@peter1138>Dance music sounds better muted
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04:24<Arkabzol>oh opinions
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04:25<Supercheese>Go for best of both worlds, dance remixes of TTD music
04:25<Supercheese>although strangely, my favorite TTD remix seems to have disappeared from the Internet
04:26<V453000>I have never seen any of those somehow
04:27<Supercheese>This song http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?p=271452#p271452
04:27<Supercheese>I downloaded it years ago, can't find it again anywhere
04:28<Supercheese>(I still have it, I'm just surprised it seems to have gone away)
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05:06<dihedral>greetings
05:06-!-wakou2 [~stephen@host86-179-100-196.range86-179.btcentralplus.com] has joined #openttd
05:07*dihedral greets the planetmaker
05:07<@planetmaker>o/
05:09*peter1138 mumbles at people hosting stuff on dyndns addresses
05:12<dihedral>:-P
05:13-!-Ristovski [~rafael@ppp-seco11pa2-46-193-128.78.wb.wifirst.net] has joined #openttd
05:16<@peter1138>it's open source, but the source code is not available, as the dyndns site is down
05:19<@planetmaker>:-) you're free to obtain it. you just have to cut off your head to reach it
05:20<Xaroth|Work>https://www.humblebundle.com/ .. for those who like cheap games :o
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05:36<lugo>hi
05:36<lugo>when translating string STR_CARGO_UNIT_COFFEE from FIRS, i have a problem
05:36<lugo>Singular would be Sack Kaffee, plural would be Säcke Kaffee
05:37<lugo>so with {P 0 "" ?} i can only add letters, can i replace the whole word too?
05:38<__ln__>by giving the whole word?
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05:42<lugo>at what point exactly? betweeen the ""?
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05:44<@Terkhen>good morning
05:44<__ln__>i don't remember/know the syntax really...
05:46<lugo>yeah me neither, and the link from http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/firs/push/LATEST/docs/html/translations.html to "detailed guide to translating" is empty
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05:48<__ln__>isn't there any similar cases in OpenTTD's german translations that you could look at?
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05:51<LordAro>uuurrrggh
05:52<lugo>mmh i'd really need to know the concept or in-game use of STR_STATION_???? to find suitable translations...
05:53*lugo summons andthenorth
05:53<lugo>we just need to say his name 3 times
05:55<@Terkhen>waiting a random amount of time also works
05:55<maddy_>andythenorth left just after you asked the question, possibly to escape the necessity of answering it
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05:56<@Terkhen>lugo: STR_STATION_ strings are the names used for stations that are placed nearby the related industry
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05:58<lugo>Terkhen: with appendixes like i.e. north, valley, ..?
05:58<@Terkhen>no, the string is the appendix
05:58<lugo>ok
05:58<@Terkhen>{TOWNNAME} Fish Market, {TOWNNAME} Tanner Road and so on
05:58*Terkhen wonders what Tanner Road means
05:58<lugo>i see, thank you
05:59<@Terkhen>I should probably update my translation soon too
05:59<lugo>that i'm also wondering :)
05:59<@Terkhen>you are welcome :)
05:59<@Terkhen>bbl
06:05<krinn>hi
06:15<@planetmaker>lugo, sure, yo ucan replace in plurals anything
06:15<@planetmaker>S{P 0 "ack" "äcke"}
06:16<@planetmaker>even {P 0 "nix geht" "vieles geht"}
06:22<Eddi|zuHause>lugo: for the station names, the only condition is that no two names may be the same
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06:26<lugo>planetmaker, Eddi|zuHause thanks
06:27<lugo>i'm thinking about "Leuna" for Portland, but i have no ideas for Tanner Road (mining) or James Watt Street (heavy industry)
06:28<lugo>well, just "Chemiepark" instead of Leuna i guess...
06:29<lugo>there are quite some typos in the german translation, well there were...
06:32<@planetmaker>Leuna... for Portland... yes. no. I thought of industry in the vicinity of... ports. But yes, might work
06:32<@planetmaker>Chemiepark, why not
06:33<@planetmaker>Just think of nice road names. Siemensstrasse instead of James Watt Street for instance
06:33<@planetmaker>Kohlmarkt instead of tanner road. Or similar
06:33<lugo>Kohlmarkt is a little misleading isn't it :P
06:34<lugo>but i like siemensstraße
06:34<@planetmaker>the names have no relation directly to the industry... And a 'tanner' is a "Gerber". So... whatever :-)
06:34<@planetmaker>those are road names I just pulled out of my hat (the english ones, I chose them :-P )
06:36<@peter1138>gah, bullshit microsoft
06:36<lugo>"Flötzstraße" then :)
06:36<@peter1138>releasing an update with the same details as a previously installed update...
06:37<@planetmaker>never heard that name, lugo ;-)
06:37<lugo>seems quite common though
06:37<@planetmaker>really?
06:38<@planetmaker>well :-)
06:38<lugo>well there's one in bochum so i thoguth it's fitting :)
06:38<@planetmaker>:D
06:38<@planetmaker>Flötz already implies excavating industry
06:39<@planetmaker>namely... digging for coal
06:39<lugo>should be more general?
06:45<Eddi|zuHause>didn't frosch123 have a list of german names?
06:48<frosch123>http://paste.openttdcoop.org/show/2375/ <- that's the original list
06:48<frosch123>haven't seen the english end-product though :)
06:53<lugo>inspirational: i picked Zeche for mining, auf dem Acker for farm, Kruppstraße for heavy industry
06:54<lugo>planetmaker: in your reply on the forums, why {num} instead of {signed_word}?
06:54<frosch123>i think pm suggested "drei Eichen" instead of "auf dem Acker"
06:59<lugo>http://pastebin.com/UmC4QWft
06:59<lugo>those are the results so far
07:00<frosch123>i wondered which areas use "Pferdemarkt", and which "Roßmarkt" :)
07:01<frosch123>"...park" sounds weird
07:01<frosch123>have you seen such streets?
07:02<frosch123>hmm, apparently it is common in other areas :)
07:02<lugo>well more an area than a single street
07:03<lugo>fits to the happy place of TTD-land i think :)
07:03<frosch123>"Altes Rathaus" already confused me in the english version
07:04<frosch123>it implies there is a new one, and the old one is no longer being used
07:04<frosch123>"Sandbank" could be shortened to "Sand"
07:04<Eddi|zuHause>not really
07:05<lugo>mmh i think townname Sandbank sounds better than only Sand, but both are bit strange to hear
07:06<frosch123>well, i haven't seen a station on water :p
07:09<@planetmaker>yes, "Sand" instead of "Sandbank". definitely
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07:10<@planetmaker>I never hear anywhere anything like "Sandbank". But places like "{PLACENAME} Sand" are very common at the coast
07:10<lugo>should be changed in english too then..
07:10<lugo>ok
07:10<@planetmaker>English is not German
07:11<@planetmaker>It's about what fits the language. And I asked andy there :-)
07:11<Eddi|zuHause>i've never heard "Sand" as a location
07:11<@planetmaker>Eddi|zuHause, you're not living anywhere near the coast
07:11<Eddi|zuHause>i guess not :)
07:12<wakou2>Sandbanks in Dorset?
07:12<Xaroth|Work>in spain/catalonia it's "(place) de mar" .. like lloret de mar, malgrat de mar, etc.
07:12<Eddi|zuHause>Xaroth|Work: it's meant for places _in_ the sea (fishing grounds, etc.)
07:13<lugo>ok i'm going with "Sand" then.. any more objections?
07:13<Eddi|zuHause>i object!! :p
07:13<Xaroth|Work>Eddi|zuHause: which idiot builds stuff IN the seas?!? :P
07:13<@planetmaker>and thanks for digging up the original list, frosch123 :-)
07:14<@planetmaker>Xaroth, it's natural for dredging sites ;-)
07:14<Xaroth|Work>we use boats for that
07:15<lugo>planetmaker: sorry to bug you, but you didn't answer the num/signed word thing
07:15<@planetmaker>use what was there. {NUM} might be openttd lang file, not newgrf semantics
07:16<lugo>ok
07:16<Eddi|zuHause>i'm feeling very short-answery today, it seems...
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07:21<@planetmaker>Eddi|zuHause, http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hochsand <-- "Sand" as place description :-)
07:21<@planetmaker>look at the links to the different "Sande"
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07:21<Wolf01>hello
07:21<@planetmaker>It's not an Island. It's not a Hallig. It's a Sand :D
07:23<Eddi|zuHause>ok, but then it would be "{TOWNNAME}sand", not "{TOWNNAME} Sand"
07:24<Eddi|zuHause>which may or may not work with some town names
07:24<__ln__>Braunschweigsand
07:24<Eddi|zuHause>because Braunschweig is known for being near the sea :p
07:25<@planetmaker>yeah, we totally have an Okercabana here. With beach. And beer :D
07:25<V453000>depends how much beer you consume
07:25<__ln__>Frankfurt an der Odersand
07:26<MNIM>Pffft. beer is everywhere.
07:26<frosch123>__ln__: Frankfurt an der Odersandsack
07:26<@planetmaker>I believe as station name you don't need to concatenate it. Assuming it's placed on or near a "Sand" near the town from the station name
07:26<V453000>and vice versa MNIM, with beer you are everywhere
07:26<V453000>slash can be
07:27<MNIM>quite
07:27<frosch123>MNIM: would you rather drown in coffee or in beer?
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07:28<Eddi|zuHause>planetmaker: i can't help it, but "Sand" feels Totally Wrong(tm)
07:29<lugo>Bucht?
07:29<frosch123>"Sand" is only for trve people who also use "moin"
07:30<V453000>D:
07:30<@planetmaker>exactly, frosch123 :-)
07:30<MNIM>frosch123: beer, preferably
07:30<@planetmaker>in other places they simply can't occur
07:31<Eddi|zuHause>i used "moin" before it was cool!! :p
07:31<MNIM>or, even better
07:31<MNIM>whiskey
07:31<MNIM>because there's always whiskey in the jar. :P
07:32<@planetmaker>Alternatively: Siel, Deich, ...
07:32<@planetmaker>Eddi|zuHause, I used it since I could talk ;-)
07:33<@planetmaker>thus surely longer than you :-P
07:33<Eddi|zuHause>but you are more northern than me :p
07:33<V453000>how the hell do you say unicorn in german anyway
07:33<Eddi|zuHause>i live in an area where people think that when you say "moin" it means "morgen"
07:34<@planetmaker>Einhorn
07:34<V453000>boooring :>
07:35<frosch123>what's it in czech?
07:35<V453000>JEDNOROŽEC
07:35<V453000>!!!
07:35<V453000>:>
07:36<Eddi|zuHause>how is that any different? :p
07:36<V453000>its awesome
07:36<frosch123>sounds like rhinoceros
07:36<Eddi|zuHause>"jed" meaning "one"
07:36<V453000>thats exactly the same frosch, rhino is only called "nosorožec" where noso is ... nose :D
07:36<frosch123>uninose
07:37<V453000>no, more like headcorn
07:37<V453000>or horse-rhino
07:37<V453000>horze-unirhino
07:37<Eddi|zuHause>well that's "Nashorn" in german :)
07:38<V453000>sounds like asshorn
07:38<V453000>:>
07:38<Eddi|zuHause>no, an "ass" is an "esel" :p
07:38<V453000>iz osel in czech ... you mean donkeyass
07:39<frosch123>yeah, unicorn-donkey-chimera
07:39<V453000>going purr
07:40<Eddi|zuHause>frosch123: is that when you put a carrot in front of the donkey, so it moves? :p
07:40<frosch123>no, you also have to colour it rainbow
07:40<V453000>:D with the carrot being a part of the creature?
07:41<frosch123>yeah, and eyes fixed in >< position
07:41<Eddi|zuHause>http://catinspace.files.wordpress.com/2012/11/esel.jpeg?w=580
07:42<Eddi|zuHause>wait a moment, how did we get from "station name for a dredging site" to "donkey with a carrot"?
07:43<V453000>all paths lead to unicorns
07:43<V453000>ask frog
07:43<frosch123>Eddi|zuHause: there are certain words which are used regulary in every language
07:43<frosch123>"unicorn" is one of them
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07:45<__ln__>the source material for your statistics may be a bit biased if it suggests "unicorn" is used regularly in any language
07:45<V453000>IRRELEVANT
07:46<frosch123>__ln__: just take your sentence as example
07:46<frosch123>it uses "unicorn" as often as "if"
07:46<V453000>XD
07:46<V453000>well done frosch123
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07:49<LordAro>urgh
07:50<dihedral>Lo 'Aro
07:50<LordAro>hai dih
07:55<NGC3982>I have been playing so much RCT2 lately. It's really good, but playing older tycoon games in their originality feels kind of strange when I'm so used to OpenTTD.
07:55<frosch123>screen resolution, right?
07:56<Xaroth|Work>and lack of smart features :P
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07:56<V453000>low vehicle limits :((
07:57<NGC3982>The resoluttion isn't really a problem. The features, though..
07:57<NGC3982>-t
07:57<V453000>+ only point to point :( no junctions :(
07:57<V453000>:(
07:57<V453000>:(
07:58<Pinkbeast>I haven't been on many rollercoasters with junctions in active use during normal operations.
07:58<NGC3982>Just being able to clear the screen with the delete key is extremely neat.
07:58<LordAro>NGC3982: http://freerct.org ;)
07:58<NGC3982>:O
07:59<Eddi|zuHause>whenever i started up TTDPatch to test something, i got immediately annoyed by the smallest usability features missing
08:00<frosch123>build on steep slopes?
08:00<Eddi|zuHause>i don't think i ever got that far
08:00<frosch123>:o
08:00<Eddi|zuHause>but lets start at autorail
08:01<Eddi|zuHause>i don't really remember anymore what exactly it was
08:01<Eddi|zuHause>but it was really small things
08:01-!-tssst [~id@37.140.99.39] has joined #openttd
08:02<Eddi|zuHause>the kind that you always say "you don't appreciate the small things until they are gone"
08:04<dihedral>i would still like to see 'cash penalties' introduced :-) if someone misbehaves, make him 'pay' - money goes into local charities
08:04<frosch123>it's called "bribing" in ottd
08:04<Eddi|zuHause>make an admin script!
08:05<dihedral>frosch123, i mean enforced by the admin, as a console command e.g.
08:06<frosch123>oh, you mean "change company", "bribe town 30 times"?
08:06<dihedral>bribing has an effect
08:06<dihedral>i want to charge.... some type of .. taxes :-P
08:06<NGC3982>LordAro: That looks very.. promising.
08:06<frosch123>not if you bribe enough often
08:06<dihedral>50% misbehaviour tax
08:07<@peter1138>can game scripts do things like dole out cash? heh
08:07<dihedral>hehe
08:07<dihedral>but it should work both ways
08:08<dihedral>then i could create an admin script that handles some type of ... swiss bank accounts
08:08<dihedral>transfer funds across games :-D
08:08<V453000>make money on one server, go to another, sabotage whole server
08:08<V453000>sounds great :D
08:08<dihedral>sabbotage once, join never again
08:09<dihedral>no problem
08:09<V453000>still :>
08:09<dihedral>+ autosave
08:09<V453000>well it takes a while until your banlist extends enough to cover all those idiots
08:09<dihedral>but join, create company, gain cache - save outside of game, start new game, get cash back
08:09<dihedral>V453000, same as openttdcoop - irc password
08:10<dihedral>or even worse, login to webpage first :-P
08:10<dihedral>just that the webserver is not patched into openttd like at the luukland servers :-P
08:10<V453000>lol
08:10<V453000>plus use nightlies and custom newGRFs
08:11<V453000>or patched openttd, even better
08:12<maddy_>taxes could work otherwise, but they are such a pain in real life, and playing openttd lets me forget some such unpleasant things
08:14<V453000>taxes would be great, you could add disasters related to taxes
08:14<V453000>like minority A burning cars on the street up, passenger production rate -50%
08:14<@peter1138>is luukland still going?
08:15<dihedral>V453000, WAR :-D
08:15<dihedral>peter1138, nope - not for a year now
08:15<V453000>:)
08:15<Xaroth>V453000: nothing TrueBrain's CAS project can't fix :)
08:15<V453000>luukland iz ded? how unfortunate
08:15<dihedral>but http://www.novapolis.net/
08:15<Xaroth>lolz
08:16<Xaroth>somebody should ask them to release their modification source
08:16<Xaroth>seeing they distribute binaries
08:16<V453000>you know the eventual result of that
08:17<Xaroth|Work>them responding FOAD?
08:18<Xaroth|Work>(I should really not have 2 irssi windows open on the same channel, I'm confusing myself..)
08:18<V453000>:d
08:18<@peter1138>anyone know what's extra in their builds?
08:19<dihedral>i am in their irc channel, lets see what happens
08:19<@peter1138>they do include a diff, which is not source, but good enough for me
08:19<dihedral>they do?
08:19<@peter1138>"Patched OpenTTD client with some handy features for playing on Novapolis Servers. _Sources included_."
08:20<dihedral>did not expect that
08:20-!-SamanthaD [~SamanthaD@c-98-248-25-134.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
08:20<@peter1138>something to do with cargo at least
08:20<@peter1138>special chat commands
08:21<@peter1138>some statistics
08:22<dihedral>IConsoleCmdExec("connect 37.157.196.78:3981#255");
08:22<dihedral>hihi
08:23<@peter1138>yeah saves having to use the server list, eh?
08:23<@peter1138>innerhighlight.grf
08:23<@peter1138>is_alt_pressed
08:23<@peter1138>oh dear
08:23<@peter1138>they don't care about non-windows users :D
08:23<dihedral>i think they do
08:23<dihedral>oh
08:23<dihedral>no
08:24<dihedral>wait
08:24<NGC3982>What is that?
08:24<dihedral>non windows .. yes
08:24<V453000>:DDD
08:24<V453000>:>
08:24<dihedral>lol
08:25<dihedral>peter1138, line 1821
08:25<V453000>windows is the future!
08:25<@peter1138>yes
08:26<@peter1138>dihedral, makes sense if you look at the previous context
08:26<dihedral>no it does not
08:26<dihedral>remove the entire block makes sense
08:26<@peter1138>well yes
08:26<@peter1138>true
08:29<@peter1138>+STR_CONFIG_SETTING_CTRL_GOTOSHORTCUT_ALTSHIFTCLICK :alt+shift+left-click: {STRING2}
08:29<@peter1138>+STR_CONFIG_SETTING_CTRL_GOTOSHORTCUT_CTRLALTLCLICK :ctrl+alt+left-click: {STRING2}
08:29<@peter1138>YEAH what
08:29<dihedral>const byte _openttd_revision_modified = 0;
08:30<@peter1138>needed so normal clients can connect yes
08:30<dihedral>this IS the client
08:30<dihedral>or is it the server too
08:30<@peter1138>probably just the client
08:30<dihedral>so you can connect to other servers
08:30<@peter1138>but okay, so it can connect to the server which is also marked as non modified
08:31<@peter1138>i assume
08:32<dihedral>line 3234 is cute also
08:35<V453000>nerds! :>
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08:39<dihedral>they claim it works on linux, but one has to compile oneself
08:41<V453000>they are doing serious competitive progaming out there, I doubt any progamer uses luxin :P
08:43<frosch123>programmers use linux, progamers use luxin
08:43<frosch123>sounds reasonable
08:44<V453000>:D
08:44<Wolf01>as you are talking about modifier keys, I was thinking again about the interface for playing on touch screen: would be hard to have an official biggui.grf and change some ui buttons to act as dropdown? I mean, you need to share orders (ctrl+goto on a vehicle) as I don't have ctrl (ok, I can use gestures to enable it but that's not the point) I wanted to change the goto button like the top
08:44<Wolf01>menu, where you keep pressed and select an action, the first one is the default one
08:46<Wolf01>and this for every action which use the ctrl key
08:48<Wolf01>except for (remove)autorail and signals, where we already have an usable ui with many buttons which can be combined
08:49<@planetmaker>Wolf01, integrating enlarged GUI sprites is not unreasonable and feasible in some ways... Just not yet done
08:50<@planetmaker>michi has a somewhat nearly finished patch for that iirc
08:50<@planetmaker>kinda introducing an UI zoom variable
08:52<Wolf01>the problem is not only the big gui, but all the ctrl(olled) actions
08:53<@planetmaker>it's two different problems, I think
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08:53<@planetmaker>the biggui is ... solvable. the idea exists. some code. but not yet done
08:53<frosch123>the ultimate solution for ctrl are completely customizable hotkeys
08:53<@planetmaker>the different keys... ^
08:53<frosch123>which could then also involve alt and win keys
08:54<frosch123>and automatic hotkey dispaly in tooltips
08:54<frosch123>or even on buttons
08:54<frosch123>you know: like sc2 can display hotkeys on the action button, ottd could display them on the toolbar icons
08:55<Wolf01>eh, but if you don't have keys™?
08:55<frosch123>well, disable them
08:55<@planetmaker>dihedral, do you archive suggestions? Especially the non impossible ones?
08:55<frosch123>could be the default for ape pads
08:56<frosch123>hmm, actually, even apes use tools
08:56<frosch123>so, cat pads maybe
08:56<Wolf01>also without the ability to hover on a button is quite difficult to get a tooltip
08:58<V453000>just draw the letter over the icon in the corner
08:58<dihedral>planetmaker, :-)
08:59<V453000>faster, and searching for tooltips is slow/tedious/not as effective
09:00<Wolf01>it could be difficult to read
09:00<frosch123>make every button take 1/4 of the screen
09:00<V453000>not a problem at all if done properly
09:01<dihedral>planetmaker, were you refering to ttf or my charging penalty idea
09:02<frosch123>http://img600.imageshack.us/img600/3933/gridye.jpg <- Wolf01: that's how it looks in sc2
09:02<Wolf01>it works well with plain, single colored buttons with a great contrast from background, and the image of the button needs to leave an area where you can draw the letter/shortcut
09:02<frosch123>but it gets harder with modifier keys :p
09:04<@planetmaker>dihedral, I were referring to your spelling in the tt-f posting, yes ;-)
09:05<@planetmaker>achieve != archive
09:05<dihedral>oh yes
09:05<dihedral>ops
09:05<dihedral>i always do that one
09:05<@planetmaker>I know :-P
09:06<dihedral>fixed :-P
09:06<frosch123>i did it, until it annoyed me that albert always corrected me in the patch reviews :)
09:06<frosch123>though i think smatz failed in teaching me safe/save
09:07<dihedral>lol
09:07<dihedral>where is SmatZ anyway?
09:07<dihedral>@seen SmatZ
09:07<@DorpsGek>dihedral: SmatZ was last seen in #openttd 2 weeks, 2 days, 15 hours, 35 minutes, and 57 seconds ago: <SmatZ> wish I were so lucky...
09:08<dihedral>well - i guess that's still in reason
09:11<@planetmaker>archaif vs. adschief ;-) Only one has an "r" :-P
09:12<dihedral>arrrr
09:13<dihedral>novapolis is at lease very kind to openttd:
09:13<dihedral>"Because of this, if you encounter any bug, report it to Novapolis team as it may be connected to patches included.
09:13<dihedral>Unless you encouter the same bug on unpatched OpenTTD client do not report it to OpenTTD development team."
09:13<@planetmaker>I wonder how many bugs go amiss due to that, though :-)
09:14<frosch123>dihedral: likely we flamed them long enough
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09:15<dihedral>frosch123, don't be a spoil sport
09:15<dihedral>;-)
09:21<maddy_>how would I go about using a hashtable-style datatype with key-value combinations, where key is a combination of TileIndex and Track?
09:22<maddy_>I see there's a hashtable datatype already included, but not sure if that is suitable for it
09:22<dihedral>:-D
09:22<maddy_>what's funny?
09:22<dihedral>what is your intention maddy_ , what do you want to store?
09:23<V453000>going about beer is certainly an option
09:23<maddy_>my signal programs, which will be a custom class, so I need a collection of them, and ability to search them with the said key
09:24<frosch123>how many items do you expect?
09:24<dihedral>it sounds like a lot of data
09:24<dihedral>\o/ openttd will no longer run in opendos, due to memory limitations :-D
09:24<dihedral>just kidding ;-)
09:25<maddy_>frosch123: hard to say, probably 0 to 100 would be an average case
09:25<frosch123>so, use a std::map :p
09:25<maddy_>dihedral: it's not a lot of data at all
09:25<frosch123>does the data need storing in the savegame?
09:25<maddy_>frosch123: ok, and something like uint64 as the key? combining TileIndex and Track into one integer
09:26<maddy_>frosch123: yes
09:26<frosch123>no, custom struct or class with operator<
09:27<frosch123>cargomonitors also use a std::map
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09:28<maddy_>yeah, I will use std::map, thanks
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09:38<dihedral>TB sit still will ya?
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09:57<LordAro>is http://wiki.openttd.org/Special:RecentChanges blank for anyone else?
09:57<frosch123>currently not
09:57<LordAro>interesting
09:58<LordAro>oop, that's better
09:58<LordAro>i still think there's something wrong with the mediawiki setup
09:59<LordAro>it keeps happening
09:59<frosch123>wasn't it maximum number of connections last time?
09:59<frosch123>until tb banned another search engine
09:59<LordAro>hmm, and "dbus-daemon" seems to be bugging out, it's using 100% of a core
10:00<LordAro>brb
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10:03<LordAro>that's better
10:17<maddy_>is there a better datatype for generic lists where order does not matter than std::vector?
10:20<maddy_>found it: forward_list
10:21<frosch123>list and vector are very different
10:22<maddy_>I just need something that I can iterate over, and add/remove elements
10:24<frosch123>ottd has a smallvector class, which has an effective erase operation (which does not preserve order)
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10:25<maddy_>frosch123: cool, I will use that instead
10:26<frosch123>mind that ottd's container work slightly different to the stl ones
10:26<frosch123>they generally do not call constructors or destructors, but you can construct stuff in place without the need to copy later
10:26<frosch123>they are mainly used to store pod data though
10:26<frosch123>-data
10:27<maddy_>that's all I need actually
10:27<maddy_>just storing small structs
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10:37<V453000>are somewhere written recolour tables for company colours?
10:37<frosch123>yes
10:38<V453000>and may I ask where does the power of rainbow dwell? :)
10:38<frosch123>ttdviewer for playing, or http://devs.openttd.org/~frosch/texts/ttdpalette.txt for text
10:39<frosch123>http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/ttdviewer/repository/entry/src/recolor.xml <- actuelly, ttdviewer also has that file in the source
10:39<V453000>O_O
10:39<V453000>why are there all the zeros when the first 4 characters seem to matter :D
10:40<frosch123>you can add custom recolouring to ttdviewer via that file btw :p
10:40<frosch123>because they are text colours
10:40<V453000>ooooh
10:40<frosch123>fonts only use first 3 colours, and technically that's the recolourmap which ottd uses
10:40<frosch123>cc are way more down
10:40<V453000>excellent I see now
10:40<V453000> <sequence name="Company Color"> ...
10:41<V453000>wanted to see mainly this :) <recolor name="red" sprite="779" indices="C6 C7 C8 C9 CA CB CC CD" separateable="all"> B3 B4 B5 B6 B7 A4 A5 A6
10:41<V453000>thanks frog :) you shall be rewarded with madness
10:42<frosch123>yay, more of it!
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10:43<V453000>expect the worst, COMBINED with rainbow power
10:43<frosch123>oh rainbow power. the unicorns always get quite horny on that
10:43<V453000>XD
10:44<Eddi|zuHause>decompile germanrv to get recolour madness :p
10:44<V453000>you win today frosch
10:44<V453000>Eddi|zuHause: there are no animals, madness 0/10
10:44<Eddi|zuHause>like 50% of that file are recolour sprites
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10:45<Pitbull>Hello!
10:45<V453000>mhm :)
10:45<@planetmaker>hello
10:45<V453000>hi
10:45<Pitbull>I don't suppose there's any chance I could jsut pop in here like this and get some help with using rcon? :D
10:45<Pitbull>I searched teh forums already but the solutions didn't help
10:45<Pitbull>err *the
10:46<@planetmaker>the chances might rise dramatically when you ask the questions instead of meta-questions
10:46<Eddi|zuHause>i don't suppose you'd get an answer to a metaquestion
10:46<Pitbull>Roger that :)
10:46<V453000>type "rcon ban everybody"
10:46<V453000>solves all problems
10:46<Eddi|zuHause>V453000: you forgot the quotes :p
10:46<V453000>shows I dont use rcon often :P
10:46<Pitbull>I'm tryign to remotely load a saved game on my server. I can pause/unpause using rcon password "pause" and rcon password "unpause"
10:46<V453000>joy of irc
10:47<@planetmaker>^ :-)
10:47<Pitbull>but rcon password "ls", rcon password "load newGame.sav" etc doesn;t work
10:47<Pitbull>lol
10:47<Pitbull>yes complaints will decrease dramatically with the ban everyone command :D
10:47<Pitbull>the problem.....goes away
10:47<V453000>literally!
10:47<V453000>anyway, check that you have all newGRFs from the savegame on the server
10:48<V453000>and that the save wasnt created with uncompatible/newer revision of openttd than the server haz
10:48<V453000>step 3, ban everybody
10:48<Pitbull>I believe I do, I created the savegame locally on teh server box earlier to load. Do I need to have the save on the client side to load it?
10:48<Pitbull>lol
10:48<Eddi|zuHause>that's when computers become sentient and get to the conclusion "wipe out all humanity" is the optimal solution
10:48<V453000>XD
10:49<V453000>it shouldnt be related to your client at all Pitbull
10:49<Eddi|zuHause>i've seen that scenario many times in movies. it must be true! :p
10:49<Pitbull>"well we've achieved sentience, what do we do on our quest to better humanity? Well system V453000 says to check something call newGRFs, check server versions and then.....BAN EVERYONE."
10:49<Pitbull>hmmm roger that
10:49<Pitbull>is there a reason rcon password "ls" won't return anythign in the client console?
10:49<Pitbull>I wanted to confirm I had the filenames right, I'm 95% I do
10:50<V453000>I suppose that should do something but idk I dont use that command
10:50<@planetmaker>what does rcon pw "pwd" tell?
10:50<V453000>^
10:50<Pitbull>C:\Users\<Username>\Documents\OpenTTD\save\
10:50<Pitbull>That is where the save file is
10:51<Pitbull>so that looks correct
10:51<Eddi|zuHause>am i allowed to reply a forum post with "no." twice on the same day?
10:51<@planetmaker>depends on who sees it, Eddi|zuHause ;-9
10:51<V453000>Eddi|zuHause: you are allowed to do anything on the forums
10:51<Pitbull>lol
10:51<Pitbull>This is a dedicated server running in windows, if that's relevant
10:52<Pitbull>ohhh duh
10:52<Pitbull>dir
10:52<frosch123>well, quite possible noone ever tested that :p
10:52<Pitbull>lists my saves
10:52<V453000>:D
10:52<@planetmaker>:-) ls is linux. dir is windows :D
10:52<@planetmaker>people using dedicated servers probably all use linux :D
10:52<Eddi|zuHause>well the first one was "can we have more than 512 houses", and now there's "can we have underground stations?"
10:52<Pitbull>lol
10:52<V453000>Eddi|zuHause: in that case apply "fuck no"
10:53<Pitbull>is there a windows "more" command? my save list scrolsl out of the console window lol
10:53<Pitbull>guess I cna go back to goggling at this point
10:53<@planetmaker>Eddi|zuHause, the correct answers are in both cases "yes", though
10:53<V453000>alt F4
10:53<Pitbull>and confirm the filenames before I get back to begging :D
10:53<Eddi|zuHause>and the worst thing of all: he gives "stuttgart main station" as an example :p
10:53<frosch123>Pitbull: you can scroll the console window
10:53<@planetmaker>Pitbull, first try to load one which you see?
10:54<frosch123>mousewheel or shift up/down pgup/pgdn
10:54<V453000>beer can be used for scrolling too
10:54<V453000>in random directions usually
10:55<Eddi|zuHause>s/sc//
10:55<@planetmaker>hm... scrolling. beer. I should scroll some dust into the bin. So that I can scroll beers with friends tomorrow
10:55<Pitbull>ok! after doign the dir, I had teh file name correct, aaaaaand it loaded fine now!
10:55<Pitbull>Thanks for the help!
10:56<@planetmaker>yw
10:56<Pitbull>Appreciate it guys, sorry to do drive by tech support begging lol.
10:57<Eddi|zuHause>oh... and then he also posts the same in two different forums...
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11:00<@planetmaker>indeed. locked one of them
11:00<frosch123>before or after eddi's "no"? :p
11:01<Eddi|zuHause>i've chosen not to reply at all
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11:29<dihedral>Eddi, good for you :-P
11:34<@Rubidium>regarding that novapolis patch thing... I really have to think of the City Wok of South Park
11:34*Rubidium ponders complaining that Thai doesn't work right ;)
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11:37<@Rubidium>lovaly... the client has buffer overflows
11:40<@Rubidium>oh... sqrt + double... desync!
11:41*Rubidium wonders how long it takes to desync with a normal client there
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12:10<__ln__>http://imgur.com/owo57si
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12:30<V453000>where do I put the recolour {} thing?
12:30<V453000>aka how do I activate it on the actual spriteset?
12:30<frosch123>vehicles?
12:30<V453000>y
12:31<frosch123>"colour_mapping"
12:31<frosch123>it's a callback
12:31<V453000>oh right so in the graphics block
12:32<V453000>eventually as random_switch{} 1:blue; etc, right?
12:34<V453000>sounds suspiciously easy :)
12:35<frosch123>random_switch in the colour_mapping is fine as long as you do not use rerandomisation with triggers
12:36<V453000>no I wont do that, I only need another switch to be dependent on it (due to wagons to recolour dependently) ... I guess that should not be a problem
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12:57<maddy_>how would I check if any signal on a given TileIndex and Track has a specified SignalState?
12:58<frosch123>take a look at rail_map.h
12:58<frosch123>or signal_map.h if there is such a thing
12:59<maddy_>yeah that's the file I am looking at
12:59<V453000>http://paste.openttdcoop.org/show/2509/ unexpected token at 2nd line: recolour_sprite
12:59<frosch123>isn't there some function retunring a SignalState?
12:59<V453000>what now :(
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13:00<maddy_>frosch123: SignalState GetSingleSignalState(TileIndex t, byte signalbit)
13:00<frosch123>well, there are multiple signals on a tile
13:00<frosch123>up to four
13:01<V453000>hm I guess I cant do it that way eh :D
13:01<frosch123>ah, right, vehicles are more complicated :p
13:01<frosch123>http://newgrf-specs.tt-wiki.net/wiki/NML:Builtin_functions <- take a look at reserve_sprite there
13:02<frosch123>later on you can put param[10] (as used in that example) into the callback
13:02<maddy_>frosch123: there is also another function: uint GetSignalStates(TileIndex tile)
13:02<V453000>o_O
13:05<maddy_>what are the possible signalbits?
13:06<frosch123>maybe take a look at GetTileTrackStatus_Rail (or whatever it is called) for how they are used
13:13<V453000>WTF it is compiling :D lets see to what effect
13:20<maddy_>frosch123: can't figure it out, my brain is frozen
13:21<frosch123>did you look at GetTileTrackStatus_Track?
13:21<maddy_>yeah
13:21<frosch123>it uses stuff like GetPresentSignals, GetSignalStates, IsOnewaySignal, SignalOnTrack
13:22<maddy_>yes
13:22<maddy_>oh now I see it
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13:45<@DorpsGek>Commit by translators :: r25723 /trunk/src/lang (3 files) (2013-08-15 17:45:21 UTC)
13:45<@DorpsGek>-Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
13:45<@DorpsGek>indonesian - 71 changes by UseYourIllusion, abdu354
13:45<@DorpsGek>lithuanian - 2 changes by Stabilitronas
13:45<@DorpsGek>luxembourgish - 68 changes by Phreeze
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14:01<maddy_>bit logic is making my head dizzy
14:09<maddy_>does this work (and can anyone think of a solution without the if)? http://paste.openttdcoop.org/show/2511/
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14:15<krinn>return (state == SIGNAL_STATE_RED) ? (SignalOntTrack(track) & ~GetSignalStates(t) != 0) : (SignalOnTrack(track) & GetSignalStates(t)) != 0)
14:15<krinn>but i don't see what's wrong with using a if
14:15<@Alberth>in particular as the machine translates the ?: to an if anyway :)
14:16<maddy_>well ?: is the same as if, I was thinking there might be a solution with another bit operator
14:16<maddy_>but I might not need the whole func in it's current form, I just realized
14:17<@planetmaker>krinn, the only advantage is that it is a bit more concise... and looks cool like you know stuff :-P
14:17<@Alberth>!= 0 versus == 0 perhaps?
14:17<krinn>:) planetmaker
14:18<maddy_>I will structure my code a bit different, so don't waste thought on that problem :)
14:19<krinn>without knowing it at all, i would say your function should return (GetSignalState(t) != 0) and that's all
14:20<Eddi|zuHause>why is it, when i invest in a second treating room for generic deseases, there only come patients for tooth doctor and brain doctor the whole day?
14:20<maddy_>Eddi|zuHause: some game?
14:20<@Alberth>to keep you busy refurbishing the rooms?
14:21<@Alberth>maddy_: nah, real life of course :)
14:21<TWerkhoven>hospital tycoon? or theme hospital
14:21<maddy_>well, if it's real life, then it'd be interesting, is what I'm thinking
14:22<@planetmaker>TWerkhoven, sounds like CorsixTH ;-)
14:22<@Alberth>no tooth doctor in CTH
14:22<krinn>nor in theme hospital
14:22<@planetmaker>I hate doctors and especially dentists
14:23<@Alberth>krinn: CTH == open source TH
14:23<@planetmaker>except when I *really* need them
14:23<krinn>planetmaker, that's why God invent dogs & ropes
14:23<maddy_>planetmaker: well, they inflict pain on you, and make YOU pay for it, so it's no wonder it's psychologically unpleasant
14:26<Eddi|zuHause>the only REAL hospital game...
14:26<Eddi|zuHause>Biing!
14:28<krinn>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xu8IMBBWCZ8 understand why he loves that game now
14:29-!-ntoskrnl [~not@a91-153-231-146.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
14:29<maddy_>looks fun
14:31-!-andythenorth [~Andy@cpc22-aztw25-2-0-cust272.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd
14:31<Eddi|zuHause>it's actually really hard...
14:31<Supercheese>Hey look, an andy
14:31<krinn>lmao Eddi|zuHause i can see why
14:32<frosch123>i played biing around age of 12 at some friend's house
14:32<frosch123>i can only imagine that we only got a quarter of the hokes
14:33<andythenorth>lo
14:33<frosch123>*jokes
14:33<krinn>hi andythenorth
14:34<Eddi|zuHause>the furthest i ever got was day 5
14:34<frosch123>no idea what that means
14:34<frosch123>but i remember the cars were expensive
14:34<frosch123>or the drivers or so
14:35<andythenorth>so new TTD will look like lomo :(
14:35<andythenorth>I tweeted at them asking them to think different :P
14:35<andythenorth>no reply :P
14:36<Eddi|zuHause>i never got around to cars... the whole running the basic clinic stuff is so expensive (unless you used the crack that everything is free)
14:37<frosch123>andythenorth: you are not their target group
14:37<maddy_>new TTD?
14:37<frosch123>or did anyone from forums get a beta? :p
14:37<LordAro>they probably checked and made sure we didn't :p
14:37<andythenorth>frosch123: I have an ipad and an iphone, and they are targeting nostalgia...so?
14:38<Supercheese>I have a feeling anyone who mentioned OTTD was denied beta
14:38<frosch123>are they?
14:38<andythenorth>I didn't mention openttd :)
14:38*Supercheese did.
14:38<frosch123>i thought they are targeting people who never played the earlier games
14:39<andythenorth>http://www.redbull.com/uk/en/stories/1331606403620/the-last-tycoon-a-gaming-legend-is-back-on-ipad
14:39<andythenorth>"It's not going to be everyone's kind of game, but the kind of players who enjoyed Transport Tycoon many years ago and also new players who want to play an in-depth strategy game will hopefully see the appeal in such a complex and large game running on a tablet or mobile phone which is always with them."
14:40<Supercheese>Hmm, I'm not very fond of the new FIRS station names
14:41<Supercheese>Color me odd if you must, but I really like "[Town Name] [Industry Name]" nearby station names
14:41<Supercheese>à la "Toronto Grain Mill" or "Berlin Lime Kiln"
14:41<andythenorth>Supercheese: take it up with devs
14:41<Supercheese>andythenorth: am.
14:42<andythenorth>no no I just draw
14:42<Supercheese>unless you meant OTTD devs :P
14:42<frosch123>Supercheese: totonto iron ore mine sounds silly
14:42<Supercheese>frosch123: No it does not
14:42<andythenorth>we could play this game for a while
14:42<andythenorth>yes it does
14:43<Supercheese>Vote? :P
14:43<frosch123>setting
14:43<frosch123>"interesting station names" vs "boring station names"
14:43<andythenorth>Vote?
14:43<andythenorth>when do we ever vote?
14:43<andythenorth>what would a vote prove? :o
14:43*Supercheese was kidding
14:44<Supercheese>some of the "interesting" names are very odd
14:44<@Alberth>when do you have station name even displayed? :p
14:44<andythenorth>in the station
14:44<@Alberth>interesting point in time :p
14:44<Eddi|zuHause>make it a parameter!!
14:44<Supercheese>I'm confused how "portland" = "refinery"
14:44*planetmaker finds the new station names nicer than the plain {TOWN} {INDUSTRY} types
14:45<@planetmaker>Supercheese, you probably will have an EEG of myself. It will surely be inconclusive ;-)
14:45<andythenorth>Supercheese: just patch it :P
14:45<Supercheese>Patch indeed, was just typing that
14:46<frosch123>Supercheese: make an ottd patch
14:46<andythenorth>or switch US lang to 'boring names'
14:46<andythenorth>or something
14:46<andythenorth>or make an NZ lang or somethnig
14:46<frosch123>to name every station according to the industry name
14:46<frosch123>then you can also make it name them "refinery 1" and "refinery 2"
14:46<frosch123>it's not only boring, but it is also silly to code that into a newgrf
14:47<andythenorth>ottd advanced setting
14:47<Supercheese>I'm not the only one who doesn't like the new names: http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?p=1092634#p1092634
14:47<@planetmaker>you now got your patch option offered on a silver platter :D
14:48<@planetmaker>to solve it once and for all :-)
14:48<Supercheese>but anyway, patch for parameter, yes?
14:48<andythenorth>a FIRS parameter?
14:48<andythenorth>no
14:48<@planetmaker>an openttd adv. setting
14:48<Supercheese>blah
14:48<Supercheese>perhaps
14:48<@planetmaker>frosch is the newgrf authority :-P
14:48<Supercheese>seems to me it's more of a newgrf thing
14:48<andythenorth>it's really bloody silly to spend time writing newgrf props to copy the industry name into the station name
14:48<andythenorth>:)
14:49<andythenorth>it's totally redundant
14:49<andythenorth>and it's (mostly) not how TTD names stations, which matters to me
14:49<Supercheese>but also much easier than OTTD patching
14:49<andythenorth>easier != better
14:49<Supercheese>of course :P
14:49<@planetmaker>openttd patching should not be terribly difficult in that respect either, Supercheese
14:50<@planetmaker>add an adv. setting. locate the station naming function and make use of it there
14:50<Supercheese>Worth a try
14:51-!-krinn [~krinn@53.54.71.86.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
14:51<@planetmaker>the interesting part there is that {INDUSTRYTYPE} is a localized string
14:53-!-Pensacola [~quassel@h220216.upc-h.chello.nl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
14:59<Eddi|zuHause>__ln__: you searched for something like this? :p http://www.computerworld.com.au/article/523718/researchers_develop_acoustic_based_data_transfer_system_phones/
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15:00<andythenorth>what next?
15:00<andythenorth>I want FIRS to suck less :(
15:01<andythenorth>planetmaker: opinions of this for Bulk Terminal? https://dev.openttdcoop.org/attachments/download/5126/bulk_terminal.png
15:01*planetmaker didn't notice that FIRS sucks
15:01<__ln__>Eddi|zuHause: interesting
15:01<andythenorth>1.3.0 sucks
15:01<andythenorth>it isn't done yet
15:02<Supercheese>removed the small boats from the terminal, I see
15:02<@planetmaker>andythenorth, that terminal is bulk for granular stuff but not ores. So... it's not exactly general-purpose bulkd
15:02<andythenorth>planetmaker: I know, that's the problem :(
15:02<andythenorth>if I want to change cargos, it's not generic
15:03<andythenorth>oh
15:03<andythenorth>I could use the thing from alu plant
15:03<@Alberth>shouldn't the cranes be higher? eg at a rails at least as high as that shed?
15:03<andythenorth>probably
15:03<andythenorth>I could use the triangular bulk store from this http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/firs/push/LATEST/docs/html/industries.html#aluminium_plant
15:04<@planetmaker>did you know that in grain containers the weight is carried by the walls, if they're filled higher than their diameter?
15:04<V453000>andythenorth: cut the slack and stop reusing sprites on industries :P it needs some new magix
15:04<andythenorth>V453000: it's getting that way
15:04<V453000>:P
15:04<andythenorth>running out of copy-paste options :(
15:05<andythenorth>I am copy-pasting CHIPS
15:05<andythenorth>but most of CHIPS is reused FIRS :P
15:05<andythenorth>V453000: draw me a bulk terminal?
15:05<V453000>..
15:05<andythenorth>buildings are piss easy, only one angle
15:05<V453000>I am getting my brain demolished by recolour sprites atm
15:05<andythenorth>I can even do the shading, just do me an outline of stuff
15:05<V453000>might draw coffee next week
15:05<@planetmaker>andythenorth, what do you mean with 'taking from aluminum plant'?
15:05<andythenorth>I have zero inspiration right now for drawing
15:06<V453000>hm will see about them buildings
15:06<andythenorth>planetmaker: the *big* triangle shed here http://hg.openttdcoop.org/firs/raw-file/8e07d0b638ac/src/graphics/industries/aluminium_plant_1.png
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15:06<andythenorth>sprites 9-11
15:06-!-bb10 [~bb10@bb10x.org] has quit []
15:07<@planetmaker>ah, those. Well... yes... not sure
15:07<@planetmaker>Bulk terminals - in my imagination - are rather open and roofless
15:07<@planetmaker>except the containers / silos which you already show :-)
15:08<andythenorth>this one is pretty neat: http://www.dbtmuuga.ee/public/start_images/2.jpg
15:09<@Alberth>http://www.e-crane.com/case-studies/sherwin-alumina/
15:09<@planetmaker>nice image, andythenorth. Proves your point :D
15:09<andythenorth>http://www.soeters-oostwouder.com/admterneuzen.jpg ?
15:10<Eddi|zuHause>Alberth: that is not a bulk terminal
15:10<andythenorth>Eddi|zuHause: why not?
15:11<@planetmaker>http://www.systemsnavigator.com/sn_sales/MineralCameron.jpg
15:11<andythenorth>need a big crane :)
15:11<andythenorth>http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?p=1062343&sid=71a169ba84d56ea05164ac0b809445f5#p1062343
15:11<andythenorth>seems MB is ahead of me :)
15:11<maddy_>semaphore vs electric is just for looks, right? makes no difference functionally, and can mix them up?
15:13<andythenorth>this terminal needs to build more on land
15:16<@Alberth>maddy_: indeed
15:18<maddy_>good stuff, logic signals are coming soon guys, time to stop for today
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15:35*andythenorth making bloody industries :P
15:35<MNIM>Ah. busy with the livestock factories?
15:36<andythenorth>lol
15:36<Xaroth|Work>planetmaker: I re-worked openttd-admin.py .. should behave a lot smoother now .. think you'll like what it can do.
15:38*TWerkhoven likes it
15:38<Xaroth|Work>o/ TWerkhoven
15:38<TWerkhoven>ello
15:38<Xaroth|Work>always wanted to make something with urwid
15:39<Xaroth|Work>but this should also show 90% of the stuff one would need for making other interfaces, like IRC bots :)
15:39<TWerkhoven>hehe
15:39<TWerkhoven>i just got rcvchat working with your events
15:42<@planetmaker>:-)
15:42<TWerkhoven>btw, previous incarnation of openttdadmin.py would choke on clients quitting, did you know that?
15:43<Xaroth|Work>it would choke on a lot of things :P
15:43<Xaroth|Work>hence the re-work
15:46<TWerkhoven>this one handles it fine yes
15:48<Xaroth|Work>chat should also be displayed more sanely
15:48<Xaroth|Work>and the clients and company list now show in a table form
15:49<TWerkhoven>actually chatting crashes it
15:49<Xaroth|Work>it does? hm
15:49<TWerkhoven>typeerror, _chat() takes exactly 7 args (6 given)
15:50<Xaroth|Work>er, I think you're using an old trackingclient; that one's updated as well
15:50<Xaroth|Work>events.chat now sends the client object if it's available
15:50<TWerkhoven>ah
15:50<Xaroth|Work>(the 7th arg)
15:50<TWerkhoven>fair enough
15:50<TWerkhoven>i take it it sends the same with clientjoin/quit?
15:51<Xaroth|Work>with join/quit it's slightly different
15:52<Xaroth|Work>it sends the raw clientID if it doesn't know the client
15:52<Xaroth|Work>else it sends the client object
15:52<Xaroth|Work>so an isinstance(client, (long, int)) can filter those out
15:54*TWerkhoven updates trackingclient too
15:54<TWerkhoven>before i base too much on the old version
15:55<Xaroth|Work>btw, technically openttd-admin.py will work without having libottdadmin2 actually installed, as it'll inject the proper path if it's available (if ../libottdadmin2/ exists)
15:55<Xaroth|Work>but it'll give a warning for display (it'll appear when you close it again)
15:57<TWerkhoven>i should probably do the same, fail properly if it cannot find libottdadmin2
15:57<TWerkhoven>instead of just generic supybot error
16:03<andythenorth>http://www.flickr.com/photos/temuulenb/with/8063850009/
16:06<@Alberth>nice photos
16:08<V453000>no slugs 0/10
16:11<@Rubidium>doesn't like like high speed or something
16:12<@planetmaker>nice photos, andythenorth
16:13<andythenorth>not mine :)
16:13<andythenorth>they are pretty epic though
16:13<andythenorth>mongolia for r30k?
16:13<V453000>sure send us a post card :P
16:14<andythenorth>some of these new bulk terminal layouts look ugly on minimap :(
16:15<andythenorth>minimap prettiness is very important
16:15<@Alberth>apparently :)
16:15<TWerkhoven>openttd-admin.py doesnt seem to display players creating new companies
16:15<TWerkhoven>joining spectators or existing companies works fine
16:16<TWerkhoven>is that expected behaviour?
16:17<Xaroth|Work>ah, yeh, not yet implemented that part
16:18<andythenorth>ho ho, a bulk terminal http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=447318&nseq=96
16:18<andythenorth>that Cat loader is *big*
16:22<MNIM>Ehh. Wheels still seem to be less than one story tall.
16:26<frosch123>night
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16:29<V453000>LOL since when does he have that quit quote
16:30<TWerkhoven>for a few days at least
16:30<@planetmaker>at least yesterday. then I noticed :-)
16:30<V453000>:)
16:30<Bad_Brett>so V453000, did you came up with any ideas for andy's truck set?
16:31<V453000>cant say I care about trucks :)
16:31<V453000>but when it comes to heqs, they are so slow that it is too boring for me
16:31<TWerkhoven>since before 1.3.2 became the stable release
16:31<Bad_Brett>but he said he can't make it without you
16:31<V453000>I didnt hear that :>
16:31-!-HerzogDeXtEr1 [~Flex@i59F6CAA0.versanet.de] has joined #openttd
16:31<andythenorth>I said I can't make the space truck version
16:31<andythenorth>without V453000
16:32<V453000>makes sense
16:32<Bad_Brett>oh yeah
16:32<Bad_Brett>that's the one
16:32<V453000>wtf is a space truck anyway
16:33<Eddi|zuHause>if YOU don't know, nobody will :p
16:34<andythenorth>? http://fc00.deviantart.net/fs71/f/2011/159/5/e/nyan_truck_by_kitty4president-d3ie7wk.png
16:34<andythenorth>actual nyancat looks a bit truck shaped
16:34<@planetmaker>omfg!
16:35<Arkabzol>ahaha
16:35<Arkabzol>nyan truck
16:36<MNIM>Heh. whenever I hear nyancat I always think of a couple of friends of mine.
16:36<MNIM>they have this huge mural of it in their living room.
16:36<MNIM>it's /awesome/
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17:01<Arkabzol>How can I find out about the buildings and what kind of stats they have?
17:02<@planetmaker>query tile tool?
17:04<Arkabzol>Where is that? >_<
17:04<@planetmaker>right most button
17:05<@planetmaker>main toolbar
17:06-!-Arkabzol [~Arkabzol@c-40cce555.018-390-73746f39.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
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17:07<Arkabzol>Sorry. My IRC client acted up.
17:07<Arkabzol>But yeah. The big question mark button. Of course...
17:07<@planetmaker><planetmaker> right most button
17:07<@planetmaker><planetmaker> main toolbar
17:07<@planetmaker>ok :-)
17:08-!-Malinux- [~malin@149.174.189.109.customer.cdi.no] has joined #openttd
17:08<Malinux->openttd 1.3.2 Ubuntu 12.04.2 suddenly pauses without me hitting the pause-button. Someone know where to look? I have not recently added any new-grfs
17:09<LordAro>sounds odd, newgrfs wouldn't affect that
17:09<LordAro>you touching the keyboard at all?
17:09<Malinux->noe. just using external mouse
17:09<Malinux->*no
17:09<andythenorth>autosave?
17:09<Malinux->hm.. does autosave pause the game?
17:10<Malinux->It's very odd. I have played many hours today and the last days and this has never happend before
17:10<Malinux->ran openttd -d for debug, but nothing in therminal when it just entered pause-mode
17:11<Malinux->tried to not touch anything. it stills happens
17:14<Malinux->hm, it could be another program running using a lot of resources. I quit the program and it doesen't just pause any more. Maybe too early to be sure
17:15<@planetmaker>Malinux-, you didn't join a multiplayer game? Or used a game script?
17:15<andythenorth>bouys are boring
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17:15<andythenorth>can't the game just cache some linkgraph for ship routing?
17:16<andythenorth>I suppose it would have to be updated whenever station or terrain alters
17:16-!-SamanthaD [~SamanthaD@c-98-248-25-134.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #openttd
17:16<@planetmaker>that, andythenorth
17:16<@planetmaker>it's a way of laying tracks for ships :-)
17:17<andythenorth>do ships calculate route every tick?
17:17<andythenorth>or do they cache for a certain period?
17:17<@planetmaker>every tile border
17:17<@planetmaker>but yapf does have a cache
17:17<andythenorth>wondering if the game can auto-bouy
17:17<andythenorth>give the lighthouses some purpose? :P
17:17<@planetmaker>haha :-)
17:18<Arkabzol>I like how the AdiIRC quit message doesn't mention weechat :-)
17:19-!-tokai|mdlx [~tokai@port-92-195-90-238.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #openttd
17:20<Xaroth|Work>or irssi
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17:21<Malinux->planetmaker: no. I have to date never played openttd with multiplayer :(
17:21<Malinux->planetmaker: the odd thing is. I quit tv-maxe and it's not randomly pause it self anymore
17:22<@planetmaker>probably that programme used all your cpu
17:22<Malinux->planetmaker: I think it did...
17:22<Malinux->Arkabzol: weechat is cool :)
17:24-!-tokai|noir [~tokai@00012860.user.oftc.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
17:25<Malinux->from one to another. will it be possible someday in the future to have the airports as objects to actually work?
17:25<Malinux->or have several planes on final at the same time, as in the real world?
17:25<V453000>important features
17:26-!-andythenorth [~Andy@cpc22-aztw25-2-0-cust272.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: andythenorth]
17:28<Malinux->V453000: yes, but it's not easy to program such things I belive
17:28<Malinux->but if it's possible it would mean more effective airports
17:28<V453000>which isnt really anyhow useful
17:28<V453000>especially considering the effort
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17:29<Xaroth|Work>TWerkhoven: adding the creating-new-company bit now
17:29<Malinux->so the effect is so little it's not worth doing it?
17:30<@planetmaker>"worth doing" is highly subjective
17:30<TWerkhoven>:)
17:31<@planetmaker>the game lives from people seeing something and then saying "eh, can't be too difficult to add XXX"
17:31<@planetmaker>and then actually trying to add it
17:31<@planetmaker>(instead of waiting someone else doing it)
17:32<TWerkhoven>and not giving up once they see the sourcecode
17:32<@planetmaker>^
17:32<Xaroth|Work>23:31:58 ] income 18446744073709551424
17:32<Xaroth|Work>heh
17:32<Xaroth|Work>whooops
17:32<@planetmaker>income measured in sand corns?
17:32<TWerkhoven>uint16 vs uint32 was it not?
17:33<Xaroth|Work>yep
17:33-!-DarkAce-Z is now known as DarkAceZ
17:33<Xaroth|Work>struct("Q") vs struct("q") for python
17:33<Xaroth|Work>unsigned long long vs signed long long
17:34<Xaroth|Work>Money vars are sent in the openttd code as if they are unsigned, even though it's not
17:34<Xaroth|Work>confusing++
17:34<@planetmaker>not?
17:34<Eddi|zuHause>money is int64 with an overflow-protection
17:35<Xaroth|Work>p->Send_uint64(company->money);
17:35<Eddi|zuHause>might be a bug then
17:36-!-namad7 [~aaaaa@pool-96-236-139-72.pitbpa.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
17:36<Xaroth|Work>well it shouldn't matter that much tbqfh, as long as you unpack it properly :P
17:36<Xaroth|Work>and not assume that if it's sent as an uint64, that you should unpack it as an uint64
17:36<Xaroth|Work>23:36:02 ] income -767
17:36<Xaroth|Work>much better :)
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17:37<Malinux->I don't say it's easy to as I know how difficult things could be. :)
17:38<Xaroth|Work>TWerkhoven: any other quick suggestions for openttd-admin.py ?
17:38<Malinux->in my dreams I can dream of impossible things to happend :)
17:38<@planetmaker>Malinux-, it's not even like no-one has yet tried to implement NewGRF airports. It's... just not completely finished
17:38<@planetmaker>and that guy is not around any longer
17:38<@planetmaker>basically it's a matter of introducing user-definable state machines
17:39<Eddi|zuHause>hm, how would one translate "Silberbacken" into english?
17:39<@planetmaker>can you translate it for me into German? ;-)
17:40<@planetmaker>I've no clue as of what it would describe. Unless there's a "c" too much
17:40<Eddi|zuHause>http://file1.npage.de/006227/92/bilder/shoot13-0711-le-db1442_6.jpg
17:40<@planetmaker>or you fell into a bottle of liquid silver
17:41<Eddi|zuHause>the "Talent 2", colloquially "Hamsterbacke", painted in silver
17:41<@planetmaker>you mean... I should recognize a face and see the ... right :-)
17:41<@planetmaker>"silver cheek"
17:41<Malinux->is not around any longer, as in dead or not into openttd anymore? I hope the last :)
17:42<@planetmaker>the latter, yes
17:42<Malinux->:)
17:42<Eddi|zuHause>from another angle: http://file1.npage.de/006227/92/bilder/shoot13-0711-le-db1442_1.jpg
17:42<Malinux->I have to go to bed, but maybe I am back another day for other wishes :p :)
17:43<Malinux->* other almost impossible wishes
17:43<Eddi|zuHause>i think "silver cheek" loses something in translation
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17:47<@planetmaker>good night
17:47<TWerkhoven>sleep well
17:51-!-SamanthaD [~SamanthaD@c-98-248-25-134.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #openttd
17:51<SamanthaD>\o/
17:51<@Terkhen>good night
17:51<SamanthaD>nigh
17:52<Xaroth|Work>TWerkhoven: syncing the latest additions now
17:52<Xaroth|Work>includes the fix for negative income/value for company economy stats
17:53<TWerkhoven>:)
17:58<Xaroth|Work>http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=33&t=51854&p=1092718#p1092718 :)
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18:28<Supercheese>Hmm, newgrf nearby station names seem to override all other naming methods (Town Heliport, Town Docks, etc.)
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18:37<Supercheese>what is action 0 property 24?
18:37<Supercheese>wiki is very slow
18:38<Supercheese>nearby station name, right
18:39<Arkabzol>Hrm
18:40<Arkabzol>Interesting how your rating with the local authority goes quite quickly from max to "can't let you do that"
18:41<Arkabzol>Not sure I agree with it...
18:41<Supercheese>I just disable local authority entirely
18:41<Supercheese>since I compile custom binaries
18:43<Supercheese>maximum sandbox
18:46<SamanthaD>I love how the local authority is just fine with you plastering the entire countryside with layers upon layers of tracks but god help you if you cut down a tree ;)
18:47<Supercheese>treehugging commies :P
18:48<SamanthaD>Yes, but they only like NEW trees!
18:48<SamanthaD>"Listen, if you want to get on our good side you'd better cut down that old growth forest over there and replace it with something, you know, more up-to-date!"
18:51<Arkabzol>I'm playing a Sweden scenario, so there's forest absolutely everywhere...
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18:57<Bad_Brett>oh some nice activity going on here
18:57<Supercheese>salve, amice
18:58<Bad_Brett>good, thank you
18:58<Bad_Brett>Arka, are you from Sweden?
18:59<Bad_Brett>Supercheese: Any new eye candy?
18:59<Supercheese>I've got 4x zoom sprites for the emergency vehicles coming
18:59<Supercheese>have to sort out the 8bpp masks
19:01<Bad_Brett>What software are you using?
19:01<Supercheese>trying to write an OTTD patch atm
19:01<Supercheese>Sketchup
19:01<Supercheese>for renders
19:01<Supercheese>GIMP for general raster editing
19:01<Bad_Brett>can't you just do a blue material in sketchup with 100% self-illumination and remove antialiasing?
19:02<Bad_Brett>that's how i create my masks
19:02<Supercheese>I want action colors though
19:02<Supercheese>blinky lights
19:03<Bad_Brett>are you doing it in 8bpp or can that actually be done with 32bpp sprites?
19:03<Supercheese>32bpp sprite, 8bpp mask with action colors in the mask
19:03<Supercheese>figure should work
19:04<Ristovski>Dudes
19:04<Bad_Brett>are you using company colors? otherwise it seems easier to do a simple animation
19:04<Ristovski>http://0xADC22D21
19:04<Ristovski>actual link
19:04*Ristovski mad linux haxor
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19:05<Supercheese>some vehicles will also have CC
19:06<Bad_Brett>CC that blinks?
19:06<Supercheese>no, CC paint schemes as well as flashing lights
19:06<Supercheese>see current tow truck sprites
19:06<Bad_Brett>link?
19:07<Supercheese>ehm
19:07<Supercheese>load the grf and build one? :P
19:07<Supercheese>http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=26&t=56780#p972473
19:08<Bad_Brett>:)
19:08<Bad_Brett>anyway, if the flashing lights won't be in CC, it seems easier to do a simple animation and only use masks for paint schemes... in my opinion that is :)
19:09<Supercheese>I don't think the models I'm rendering would be easy to give animated lights to
19:09*Supercheese is not really a 3d modeler
19:10<Bad_Brett>maybe not... i've never used sketchup so i can't help you there really
19:10<Supercheese>I like sketchup because it is very easy to use
19:10<Supercheese>no silly features and weird UI like blender
19:10<Bad_Brett>i hate blender as well
19:10<Bad_Brett>tried to learn it, but gave up
19:10<Supercheese>blender is un-usable
19:11<Bad_Brett>have you tried AutoCAD?
19:11<Bad_Brett>that program is a mess
19:11<Supercheese>It's not really for rendering 3d models, right?
19:11<Bad_Brett>luckily no
19:11<Supercheese>more like drafting engineering drawings
19:11<Bad_Brett>but it takes like five clicks to draw a simple line
19:12<Bad_Brett>i guess it gets better if you learn the keyboard shortcuts but it's still frustrating
19:12<Supercheese>should only take two, if your start and endpoint are snapped-to some feature
19:12<Supercheese>well, plus 1 to activate the line tool
19:13<Bad_Brett>yeah but then you have to right-click, select"quit line edit mode" and press Enter or something like that
19:13<Supercheese>O_o
19:13<Bad_Brett>yep...
19:13<Bad_Brett>and the weird thing is
19:13<Supercheese>I don't recall that being necessary
19:13<Bad_Brett>that i've been using 3ds max since i was 15 years old
19:14<Supercheese>ugh
19:15<Supercheese>I'd rather just patch FIRS
19:15<Supercheese>-_-
19:15<Bad_Brett>heh
19:15<Supercheese>ottd source is difficult
19:15<Bad_Brett>yeah
19:15<Bad_Brett>i gave up
19:15<Bad_Brett>on that
19:15<Supercheese>it's very easy to remove things you don't like
19:15<Bad_Brett>i have too much other things going on
19:15<Supercheese>very hard to add new features
19:16<Bad_Brett>like getting the extra turning angles to work
19:16<Supercheese>although that axiom applies almost anywhere :P
19:17<Bad_Brett>well, luckily, a designer knows perfection is achieved, not when there's nothing left to add, but when there's nothing left to take away ;)
19:17*Supercheese always hears that quote in Nimoy's voice, thanks to Civ4
19:18<Bad_Brett>:D
19:19<Bad_Brett>anyway, if you become a source code guru, please create a solution for those curved tracks, because i'm gonna need them... looks like my locomotives derail at every curve :P
19:19<Supercheese>curved tracks are easy to hack in
19:20<Supercheese>not easy to code well :P
19:20<Supercheese>crude newobject overlapping tiles can hack in curved tracks
19:20<Supercheese>don't even need to patch the game
19:21<Bad_Brett>really? how does it work?
19:21<Supercheese>it works glitchily :P
19:22<Bad_Brett>define glitchily
19:22<Supercheese>http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=26&t=58884&p=1065014#p1065014
19:22<Bad_Brett>the tt community is infamous for screaming "GLITCH!!!!" every time a sprite is two pixels off
19:22<Supercheese>That grf does overlapping tiles I believe
19:23<Supercheese>Oh wait, maybe that's not the one
19:24<Supercheese>although I believe it is
19:24<Bad_Brett>my entire grf is based on overlapping tiles, and i even experimented with curved tracks, but foundations made it impossible if i remember correctly
19:25<Supercheese>well, the crude way is to have every possible combination of curves drawn as an overlapping newobject, and you place them beside the hard-angle tracks
19:25<Supercheese>of course, that's rife with problems, but would work in many cases
19:26<Supercheese>well, "work"
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19:29<Supercheese>I would not recommend it
19:29<Bad_Brett>it sounds a bit glitchy, yes :)
19:30<Bad_Brett>sooner or later someone will hopefully get frustrated that my trains derail and make nice patch
19:30<Supercheese>we need your train grf first, eh? ;)
19:31<Bad_Brett>it's coming... when i get some new hardware
19:31<Bad_Brett>estimated rendering time for a single locomotive is 50 hours
19:31<Supercheese>yikes, how many frames for the animation?
19:31<Supercheese>and how many views? more than 8 I take it?
19:32<Bad_Brett>256 views
19:32<Supercheese>Yikes
19:32<Bad_Brett>+ maybe 16 frames for animations
19:33<Bad_Brett>of course, wagons will need even more sprites
19:33<Bad_Brett>depending on if they are loaded
19:34<Bad_Brett>basically it will be 128 right turns and 128 left turns
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19:36<Bad_Brett>each sprite is then split up in 16 smaller sprites
19:36<Supercheese>combinatorial expansion
19:36<Bad_Brett>so the total sprite count for a single locomotive will be around 10 000 sprites :)
19:36<Bad_Brett>luckily, the file size is not as big as you would expect
19:36<Supercheese>your grf will end up with a larger filesize than zBase at this rate
19:36<Supercheese>oh?
19:36<Bad_Brett>my test locomotive is 12 mb, and those sprites haven't been cropped at all, so i expect a much smaller filesize
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19:48<Supercheese>Hmm, I wonder if there's any easier-to-understand documenting of the OTTD station naming algorithm
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19:49<Bad_Brett>what's the problem?
19:50<Supercheese>It seems to start with a large pool of available names and slowly remove some?
19:51<Supercheese>blah
19:52<Bad_Brett>no idea
19:52<Bad_Brett>:)
19:53<Arkabzol>millibits?
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19:53<Supercheese>be way easier to fork FIRS
19:54<Arkabzol>How can something be less than a bit?
19:55<Supercheese>mb vs. MB, eh?
19:55<Supercheese>I say we should use hectobytes
19:55<Arkabzol>Capitalisation is important as fuck
19:55<Arkabzol>m, M, b and B all have distinct meanings
19:56<Supercheese>hB
19:56<Supercheese>or daB
19:56<Supercheese>fun units
19:58<Arkabzol>The "hecto-" prefix reminds me of apples
19:58<Arkabzol>Because that's the only use of it I see. Apples in hectograms.
20:01<Supercheese>I think we use it in land areas, hectacres
20:01<Supercheese>or some such
20:02<SamanthaD>I wonder if the average Joe would prefer a 1.5GHz computer over a 2500MHz one
20:02<Supercheese>Hectare, rather
20:02<SamanthaD>I personally measure land area in "square chains"
20:08<Supercheese>I don't get the station name generator at all
20:12<Supercheese>it seems very hackish
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20:16<Supercheese>of course, timezones mean devs are likely asleep
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20:30<Bad_Brett>what the hell is timezones? ;)
20:31<Bad_Brett>sleep is overrated
20:35<Bad_Brett>ugh... why am i doing this to myself? trying to align thousands of sprites
20:38<Wolf01>'night
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20:50<Bad_Brett>though i must say, the extra angles really make the trains look better
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---Logclosed Fri Aug 16 00:00:02 2013