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#openttd IRC Logs for 2013-08-19

---Logopened Mon Aug 19 00:00:10 2013
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00:56<dihedral>good morning
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01:40<maddy_>good morning all
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03:38<V453000>hio :)
03:38<V453000>how is your rainbow slug railway doing? :)
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03:44<@planetmaker>it's very pleased. Slugs prefer wet and rainy weather. And it's raining cats and dogs right now
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03:47<V453000>they very much do :)
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04:01<dihedral>Zuu_, thank you for confirming a channel name on the .dev channel - sadly i already knew the channel name :-P
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06:09<dihedral>__ln__, bless you
06:10*MINM pelts __ln__ with tribbles
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06:29<@peter1138>How many average-size tribble pelts does it take to make an average-size coat?
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06:33<MINM>suddenly I have a brilliantly bad idea
06:33<MINM>make a star trek inspired economy
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06:33<maddy_>how does that work?
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06:37<__ln__>at least they don't use money on the starships, but does it exist at all is another question.
06:39<maddy_>depends on if you are Ferengi or not
06:40<__ln__>yes, true, i was talking about starfleet worlds only
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06:43<MINM>deuterium, deuranium, tribbles, datapads
06:50<TinoDidriksen>V453000, I got channel logs, though not currently public - what're you looking for?
06:51<V453000>:> nothing anymore, ty
06:51<@planetmaker>like... @logs
06:51<V453000>I needed the thing __ln__ posted
06:52<TinoDidriksen>So public logs are ok. I'll open mine then.
06:53<@planetmaker>no-one could be stopped to publish logs from this channel...
06:54<V453000>.) for next time, ty pm
06:54<TinoDidriksen>Of course not, but several public channels will kick+ban people who keep public logs, for some bizarre reason.
06:54<@planetmaker>nah, not here
07:18<ChubbyPitbull>good morning!
07:19<V453000>good thursday
07:19<dihedral>TinoDidriksen, and how would they find out? :-P
07:22<@planetmaker>V453000, did you mean "good thirstday"?
07:22<V453000>no :)
07:22<@planetmaker>oh, no beer then. sad
07:23<ChubbyPitbull>thursday?! someones way ahead or way behind
07:23<V453000>vodka diet
07:24<V453000>lose 3 days in 1 evening
07:24<V453000>also I didnt say it is thursday?
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07:38<Eddi|zuHause>isn't "good thursday" an easter thing?
07:42<V453000>it is as relevant as good morning :P
07:42<V453000>no clue about easter
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07:45<@planetmaker>seems it's not Good Thursday. But Good Friday :D
07:49<@peter1138>Let's declare the 22nd of August 'Good Thursday'
07:49<@peter1138>Even when it's not Thursday.
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07:50<dihedral>TinoDidriksen, how would that help - you can find the logs, but you do not really get a chance to find out who publishes them
07:51<TinoDidriksen>Fairly easy to compare join/part dates and presence with private logs.
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07:52<@planetmaker>unless the person stays here infinitely. And starts logging only later
07:52<@planetmaker>like... who would know it's from me when I suddenly start publishing logs?
07:52<TinoDidriksen>Sure it's not foolproof, but you can also exclude anyone join/parting in the logs...
07:53<TinoDidriksen>So, narrowing down is not that hard.
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07:53<@planetmaker>anyway, they exist here for ages. And it's a public channel. So... well, why not?
07:53<dihedral>i could have my bouncer run the logs :-)
07:54<@planetmaker>yes or the coop bouncer. or ... whatever :-)
07:54<@planetmaker>dorpsgek itself could
07:54<@planetmaker>actually... my client here could. It#s connected 24/7 basically
07:55<TinoDidriksen>I think it's crazy to forbid logs of public channels, but that's apparently the norm on Freenode, so much so it is enshrined in the network policies to default to no public logging.
07:55<dihedral>who is this guy actually:
07:55<dihedral>TinoDidriksen, so much for FREEnode :-D
07:56<@planetmaker>my bet is on SpBot ;-)
07:56<TinoDidriksen>That log snippet is from roboboy
07:56<dihedral>planetmaker, the logs from SpBot look differently though
07:57<TinoDidriksen>Joined right before Speedy, hasn't parted since. Matches 100%
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07:57<@peter1138>dihedral, mikegrb
07:57<dihedral>thanks peter1138
07:57<@planetmaker>makes sense :-)
07:57<V453000>BAN BAN BAN
07:57<dihedral>you have answered a question i have had for many years now :-)
07:57<@planetmaker>hell, no
07:58<dihedral>V453000 wants to be banned :-P
07:58<mikegrb>there's prettier ones at
07:58<mikegrb>I need to finish it
07:58<dihedral>TinoDidriksen, so much for your guess there
07:58<@planetmaker>V453000, I'd be careful with those commands ;-)
07:58<V453000>:> iz the point
07:59<V453000>which commands does dorpsgek take
07:59<dihedral>mikegrb, neat, but i think i like the old ones a bit more :-)
07:59<@planetmaker>you know... they used to work... and people permabanned themselves that way
08:00<TinoDidriksen>Oh, I see, I was off by 5 minutes...would've been 00:37 for it to be roboboy.
08:00<mikegrb>dihedral: but the code is soooo much prittier!
08:04<dihedral>i can imagine that, yes
08:05<V453000>code and pretty doesnt go together
08:05<V453000>unless severely beered
08:05<V453000>then it is just plain wtf
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08:37*roboboy wanders what the highlights were for
08:37<V453000> this
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08:41<maddy_>V453000: it's pretty colourful
08:42<V453000>it iz
08:42<maddy_>I'm not sure if I think that's good or bad thing, I'm just stating the obvious
08:42<V453000>clearly good thing for me :) still, there are 2 versions of the train - rainbow and standard slug so you can use colourful or with 1 colour
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08:44<maddy_>is it NUTS or separate grf?
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08:48<DunnoNL>Hey. I've been playing on a server that uses some town growth newGRF but I can't figure out how it works or which of the newGRFs causes this behavior so I can't read the manual to figure it out. The town growth requirements are presented like this "Town is not growing: D/S/R: 2525/1205 PASS, 1192/3504/536 COAL ...". Does anyone know which newGRF this is so I can research how it works?
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08:49<maddy_>have you viewed the enabled newgrfs list when you are connected to the server?
08:49<@planetmaker>hi, town growth is either a game script. Or the server is hacked and just pretends to be the version it says to be
08:49<@planetmaker>hi Belugas
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08:50<V453000>heyoo :)
08:50<@Belugas>hi hi guys :)
08:50<@planetmaker>and welcome back :-)
08:50<@Belugas>so cool... i can place faces and voices over those nicks now !
08:50<@Belugas>thanks planetmaker
08:51<@Belugas>although i would love to get back to where i was ;)
08:51<@planetmaker>hehe, that makes the channel look different, eh?
08:51<@Belugas>quite, quite
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08:52<@planetmaker>DunnoNL, there's a few town growth scripts available in online content. But then, the server could also use its own custom one. then all you can do is ask them whether you get it.
08:52<V453000>got any photos somewhere btw Belugas ? :>
08:52<@planetmaker>DunnoNL, just load a savegame locally and check. It will tell you in the scripts settings
08:52<DunnoNL>maddy_: Yes, but from the descriptions and settings I assume none of them are responsible for this behavior.
08:52<@Belugas>yup, still in my camera ;)
08:52<@planetmaker>DunnoNL, ... no
08:53<DunnoNL>planetmaker: Good idea. Going to try that now.
08:53<@Belugas>thing is, i had very little time between the trip back and my family vacations
08:53<@planetmaker>:-) I'm quite looking forward to those, too!
08:53<@Belugas>and we were traveling a lot during those vacations
08:54<@Belugas>i will get them out this week
08:54<@Belugas>although.. i'm not sure i took a lot during the party itself...
08:54<@Belugas>i think i had way more to shoot in Amsterdam
08:59<DunnoNL>planetmaker: It says 'game script: (none)'.
08:59<DunnoNL>I have uploaded a screenshot of the full list of newGRFs here:
08:59<maddy_>wow that's a long list
09:00<@planetmaker>a newGRF cannot change what you describe, DunnoNL
09:00<@planetmaker>thus the list is ... not what you want to look at
09:00<DunnoNL>This is bizarre.
09:00<@planetmaker>ask the server owner
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09:04<DunnoNL>I did ask. Hoped it was a simple question and I could continue playing today. Thanks for the help :)
09:05<@planetmaker>so... what did s/he tell you?
09:05<@planetmaker>and yes... it's a simple question :-)
09:05<DunnoNL>Nothing yet. He is notorious for rarely showing up. That's why I asked it here.
09:05<@planetmaker>the answer might not be simple, though ;-)
09:06<DunnoNL>I was already making a screenshot of the town growth behavior, so I might just as well still share it:
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09:06<V453000>LOL hiding company names
09:08<DunnoNL>I don't care about mine, but not sure about other players. They probably wouldn't mind, but I'd rather not upset anyone and better be safe than sorry. OpenTTD community is a bit.. peculiar.
09:09<@planetmaker>is it?
09:09<@planetmaker>what server do you play on, DunnoNL ?
09:10<DunnoNL>Well, I heard about this development team being broken up and some cityscape stuff that is only for a very selective group of players.
09:10<@planetmaker>again: what server did you play that game on?
09:11<@planetmaker>that usually gives a good hint whether it's custom stuff or not :-)
09:11<DunnoNL> - Server 2. I love it. The combination of newGRFs and serious players makes it a lot of fun.
09:11<V453000>ima shit my pants on the spot
09:11<@planetmaker>reddit... afaik it's a patched server
09:11<DunnoNL>It's a custom built client. That's probably it :/
09:12<@planetmaker>lool. And you tell us NOW?
09:12<@planetmaker>thanks for wasting my time
09:12<V453000>never help the dutch plague
09:12<DunnoNL>You're welcome. No, seriously, I'm sorry.
09:12<V453000>esp with name Dunno :P
09:13<V453000>you have one free ticket for making fun of my name now :>
09:13<@planetmaker>you're know as Mr NUTS anyway, V453000 ;-)
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09:13<V453000>and purrr :((((((((((
09:14<@planetmaker>first impression sticks, V453000 ;-)
09:14<V453000>it is all related anyway, and its mental position is also quite similar
09:14<@planetmaker>purr purr
09:14<V453000>slug slug
09:16<@Belugas>lovely crew :)
09:16<@planetmaker>I think Belugas doesn't yet know the rainbow purr ;-)
09:17<ChubbyPitbull^>there's a rainbow purr??
09:17<V453000> yellow one here
09:17<V453000>with the ultimate power of rainbow slugs 1209438
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09:18<V453000>no clue what that means but I guess you can describe it that way
09:24<@planetmaker>DunnoNL, but you should lobby that the server owners make use of the official OpenTTD. And put that functionality into a game script. As far as I see, that's perfectly feasible
09:26<DunnoNL>All I know about the custom client is that it uses CargoDist for passengers and mail. I - and afaik many other players - love it. Would that be possible without the hacked client?
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09:29<ChubbyPitbull^>AFAIK the game already uses cargo dist for passengers and mail, it's an advanced setting you can use, right? In fact I thought cargo dist was intended for passengers and mail, and it's a setting to turn it on for other cargo types lol.
09:30<DunnoNL>As a casual player I am not bothered with the hacked client. I actually liked it because it implemented some awesome features (like being able to place signals on track with a train before the main client. What would be the benefit of using default client and scripts over this way? (I will need to provide arguments if I'm going to ask someone to spend a lot of time on it)
09:31<@planetmaker>the benefit is that users like you are not confused
09:31<@planetmaker>and it's less work for them. Bigger audience for them. Easier updates for them
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09:35<DunnoNL>Makes sense. The custom client makes it kinda hard for new players to join (but then again, this means only serious people willing to read join). I will suggest it.
09:36<DunnoNL>Also, this is the CargoDist thing. This isn't default behaviour, is it?
09:37<V453000>god forbid, indeed isnt default
09:38<@planetmaker>it's not switched on by default. But it's a setting like any other
09:38<ChubbyPitbull^>Not default, but it's in teh stock client
09:38<ChubbyPitbull^>err the
09:38<@planetmaker>(in the nightly openttd builds)
09:38<ChubbyPitbull^>lol oo right sorry, the server I'm running with friends is using a nightly
09:39<ChubbyPitbull^>On that nightly I can also place signals on track that has a train, if that' what you were also referring to Dunno.
09:40<V453000>I think latest stable has that too
09:41<ChubbyPitbull^>Belugas I submitted a patch to a bug you last touched 4 years ago lol.
09:41<@planetmaker>dunno really
09:42<@Belugas>4 years ago? that long?
09:42<@Belugas>that's frightning...
09:42<@Belugas>waht is it? out of curiosity?
09:42<DunnoNL>ChubbyPitbull I believe it was implemented in the stable version about half a year ago. So it is no longer a reason to use the hacked client, but I like to believe that the person that compiled it knows way more than I do and makes decisions on what to include that are good for the players.
09:45<ChubbyPitbull^>I had some things I wanted to try to implement for OpenTTD, but following the crawl/walk/run philosophy I've been browsing the TODO list on the wiki lol
09:46<ChubbyPitbull^>Roger that Dunno! Not sure why someone is hacking stuff into the client rather than submitting it for inclusion in the actual client, or not just making a newGRF for the new functionality if that was an option.
09:46<ChubbyPitbull^>Unless it's just a way of mass beta testing changes before submitting patches lol
09:47<@Belugas>mmh... the only think I did was actually to clarify what the guy had in mind in his feature request
09:48<@Belugas>the EDIT part, that is... I closed it as INVALID, then (dunno why) reopened it
09:49<DunnoNL>ChubbyPitbull Afaik the guy doesn't create stuff, he just compiled a client with a great mix of patches and stuff to make gameplay better. Everything in the client exists out there somewhere. The guy just put it together in a specific way for playing on his server.
09:50<ChubbyPitbull^>Roger that Belugas. The bug was listed here so I made a patch for it. It's only my second patch, so I wasn't sure what the process was after submitting a patch; whether I had to change a flyspray status, or PM someone
09:51<ChubbyPitbull^>Figured I'd bug you since you had at least seen the bug at some point in your life lol.
09:53<ChubbyPitbull^>Is there a more up-to-date requested features/TODO list for new people wanting to contribute?
09:54<@planetmaker>there isn't, sadly
09:54<@planetmaker>being in this channel is good though :D
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09:55<@Belugas>quite it is :)
09:55<@Belugas>that or the suggestions in forums
09:56<ChubbyPitbull^>The coding guidelines you guys have in place made it fairly easy to jump into the code, a lot of it is very readable and easy to pick up what's going on.
09:56<@Belugas>althohg that is a bit of a joke
09:56<ChubbyPitbull^>Roger that.
09:56<V453000>abit :)ú
09:56<ChubbyPitbull^>I was using the lists because I figured those were coming after a one-pass by developers or contributors saying "yeah this one makes kind of sense"
09:56<@Belugas>lovely code style indeed, thanks to Rubidium
09:56<@planetmaker>yes, that's why we created the lists
09:57<maddy_>what the idea with DOS and Windows palettes in newgrfs, and ability to toggle them in the gui? when would/should I want to switch them?
09:57<@planetmaker>it takes more effort to review the patches though :D
09:57<@planetmaker>writing the list was easy in comparison
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09:57<ChubbyPitbull>There we go
09:57<@planetmaker>maddy_, history. Never use anything but DOS for new NewGRFs. Don#t change for existing ones in the newgrf config
09:57<@planetmaker>that's usually the best guide
09:58<maddy_>planetmaker: ok
09:58<@planetmaker>for new NewGRFs as when you write them as author
09:58<ChubbyPitbull>Ahh poop lost voice in .dev for changing nick
09:59<ChubbyPitbull>My only code structure complaint so far is global o'er the land! Took a bit of reading around now and again to find the definitions and scoep for everything, MSVC 2010 is surprisingly helpful
09:59<ChubbyPitbull>struck down!
10:00<@planetmaker>well... yes. They're defined in the headers where they are used
10:08<@peter1138>We should put everything into a class so that we can run multiple instances of the game in one process.
10:08<@peter1138>Or not.
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10:10<@Belugas>one instance attached to each processor ;)
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10:18<ChubbyPitbull>Howdy Zuu
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10:25<@planetmaker>ChubbyPitbull, yes... is often silent. We use it to discuss code only. And sometimes we do that also here instead of there
10:27<@planetmaker>we created that channel so that some discussions don't drown or are public in the first place but without too much interference from the more general chatter we sometimes have here
10:27<ChubbyPitbull>Roger that
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10:30<Eddi|zuHause><peter1138> We should put everything into a class so that we can run multiple instances of the game in one process. <-- well it would be really useful to be able to prepare the game context of a new game while the title game is still running.
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12:15<maddy_>oh dead, my next task is writing the save/load handler, I hope you guys have made it easy for me
12:16<@planetmaker>depends... what needs saveload handling?
12:16<maddy_>my signals
12:17<maddy_>their logic
12:17<@planetmaker>if you just add additional stuff, usually no special care is needed with saveload
12:17<@planetmaker>it just works
12:17<@planetmaker>at least wrt settings or so
12:18<maddy_>what about the savegame version? is it recommended to increment it or not?
12:18<@planetmaker>hm, I guess, yes
12:32<@Rubidium>unless it becomes a new chunck ;)
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12:39<maddy_>what's a chunck?
12:56<LordAro>chunk, i assume
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13:12<@Belugas>chun(c)k is a packet of bytes containing, in this context, configuration data
13:15<scshunt>maddy_: ooh, new signals? what do they do?
13:18<Xaroth|Work>they go either red or green
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13:22<@peter1138>hmm, how should i test if the viewport should be scrollable, just test the game mode variable?
13:24<@peter1138>heh, well that's silly
13:24<@peter1138>but works
13:35<maddy_>scshunt: they are similar to programmed signals patch kind of
13:45<@DorpsGek>Commit by translators :: r25734 trunk/src/lang/afrikaans.txt (2013-08-19 17:45:09 UTC)
13:45<@DorpsGek>-Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
13:45<@DorpsGek>afrikaans - 21 changes by mulderpf
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13:48<@peter1138>hmm... should i try making the OPENTTD letters refresh properly on the intro screen? :p
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14:01<@DorpsGek>planetmaker: OpenTTD uses TCP and UDP port 3979 for server <-> client communication, UDP port 3978 for masterserver (advertise) communication (outbound), and TCP port 3978 for content service, a.k.a. BaNaNaS (outbound)
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14:12<@Alberth>hi hi
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14:24<frosch123>__ln__: just for the record: today's xkcd contains the word 'unicorn' at least twice
14:25<frosch123>actualy misread unicode as one of them :s
14:26<V453000>asci cat
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15:48<SpComb>I should totally rewrite my irclogs some day
15:48<SpComb>it's a miracle that they're still up and running :)
15:49<SpComb>I'm still proud of the timezone support! Not sure how many users actually notice it, though :)
15:51<LordAro>i think i've noticed at some point in the past :L
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16:30<Eddi|zuHause>yay, finally got my mouse replaced \o/
16:30<andythenorth>does the cat chase it?
16:31<Eddi|zuHause>usually not. the mouse cursor however... :)
16:31<@Alberth>its sleeping after eating the previous one :)
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16:34<Supercheese>Hmm, I can't find where the prop 24 nearby station name string gets the Town name added to it
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16:36<Eddi|zuHause>start at newgrf* where it checks prop 24 and backtrack from there?
16:36<Supercheese>or is that incorporated in the grf file itself
16:36*Supercheese has to check FIRS source
16:37<Supercheese>Ah, it seems to be in the grf itself
16:37<Supercheese>that would explain it, then :P
16:37<Eddi|zuHause>i think there should be a {TOWNNAME} token
16:37<Supercheese>That means I have to add the town name in the patch
16:39<Eddi|zuHause>there should be a similar token in normal lang files
16:40<Supercheese>Yeah, but the lang file stuff doesn't matter when I'm editing strings.cpp
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16:40<Eddi|zuHause>new keyboard feels totally weird, even though it's the same type as the old one...
16:40<@Belugas>not the same "touch", i guess :)
16:40<Eddi|zuHause>Supercheese: just add a string {TOWNNAME} {INDUSTRYNAME}
16:41<@Belugas>or is it that you actaully can see the letters now? hahahah!
16:41<Supercheese>How would I do that?
16:41<Eddi|zuHause>and then set both via SetDParam
16:41*Belugas goes home
16:41<Eddi|zuHause>Supercheese: just check how it's done in the industry list?
16:41<Eddi|zuHause>or the industry window?
16:42<Eddi|zuHause>Supercheese: i seriously doubt strings.cpp is the place to change, anyway
16:42<Supercheese>It is, frosch helped me see that earlier
16:42<Supercheese>prop 24 nearby station name is an odd case
16:43<Supercheese>industry type is stored as a reference, then strings.cpp sorts out the actual name
16:43<Supercheese>I still don't really get it
16:44<frosch123>iirc you just want to replace the stationame with the industry name
16:44<frosch123>so, do not append the industrytype or townname, just use the industry name directly
16:45<Supercheese>{TownName} {IndustryName}
16:45<frosch123>hmm, though that might give you the wrong town for the station :p
16:45<Supercheese>Ah, now I just have to figure out where the "full" industry name variable is
16:45<Supercheese>indsp->name has no town name
16:46<andythenorth>parent town?
16:46<andythenorth>related item
16:46*andythenorth is guessing
16:46<Supercheese>st->town + indsp->name throws errors
16:47*andythenorth bed
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16:48*Supercheese wonders why there is both base_station_base.h and station_base.h
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16:51<Eddi|zuHause>one is for all stations and the other for railway stations?
16:51<Supercheese>Perhaps a better idea would be to insert a {TownName} param to the string, but I don't know how to do that
16:52<LordAro>night all
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16:54<Supercheese>I'd rather not edit english.txt
16:56<Supercheese>Hmm, let's try STR_FORMAT_INDUSTRY_NAME
16:56<@planetmaker>nothing wrong with changing english.txt when making source code patches
16:56<Supercheese>Well, what I'm trying to do really should be able to use existing strings
16:57<Supercheese>or rather, parameters
16:57<Supercheese>Now time for compiling:
16:59<Supercheese>STR_FORMAT_INDUSTRY_NAME does not work at all
17:00<Supercheese>perhaps because I seem to be dealing with string IDs rather than actual strings?
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17:03<Supercheese>guess I should SetDParams
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17:10<Supercheese>this is ridiculous
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20:38<Supercheese>Huzzah, patch finally working
20:52<Supercheese>time to celebrate
21:13<SamanthaD>what patch?
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22:25<Supercheese>SamanthaD: a source-code patch version of this grf:
22:25<Supercheese>So it will work with any industry set
22:28<SamanthaD>Oh, I like that a lot!
22:28<SamanthaD>save me from having to do it by hand!
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22:49<Supercheese>Yeah, I think many people would like that feature, it seems everyone except the devs :P
22:50<Supercheese>Now, which .cpp file deals with advanced settings...
23:06<Supercheese>If I add a new advanced setting, do I have to bump the savegame version?
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23:11<Supercheese>ah, it seems NOW I have to edit english.txt
23:16<SamanthaD>Supercheese: don't forget to edit src/table/settings.ini
23:16<Supercheese>just what I'm currently doing :)
23:16<SamanthaD>cool :3
23:16<SamanthaD>I just merged a patch and had to tweak the settings so it's fresh on my mind
23:17<SamanthaD>it's not working quite right though... have to debug it before I post it
23:19<SamanthaD>also, I usually add 1000 to the savegame version to indicate that it's a patched version
23:21<Supercheese>Oops, I should probably be writing this patch based on a clean ottd, rather than my already-custom-patched version -_-
23:30<SamanthaD>yeah, probably
23:30<Supercheese>ah well
23:30<Supercheese>it compiles now, I don't want to risk breaking something by cleaning the source :P
23:31<Supercheese>I'll extract a proper patch once everything works 100%
23:31<SamanthaD>got my "upstream" repo which feeds my patch repos (only one) which feeds my "play" repo that I combine all the patches together and actually play with
23:31<SamanthaD>what other patches are you running?
23:31<Supercheese>Show Vehicles in Tunnels and several custom, personal patches
23:32<SamanthaD>you should publish 'em!
23:32<Supercheese>no, they're really silly
23:32<Supercheese>like, "comment out this whole block"
23:32<Supercheese>to get rid of some annoying "features"
23:32<Supercheese>i.e. local authority denying you construction rights
23:33<Supercheese>just commented out that check :P
23:33<Supercheese>so I can give the finger to the authority and they can't do jack about it now
23:33<Supercheese>I wouldn't even call it a "patch", per se
23:34<SamanthaD>I've been contemplating a patch that makes it so that the local authority is harder to "buy off" with trees
23:34<SamanthaD>possibly countering the difficulty with making them harder to PO with tree destruction
23:35<SamanthaD>point is, the local authority is more of a nuisance that any player with 20-30k in the bank can pretty much ignore
23:35<Supercheese>local authority restrictions should be disable-able in the settings, IMO
23:35<SamanthaD>it would be more interesting if they were actually a feature that you had to really plan around
23:35<SamanthaD>oh yeah! I agree
23:36<SamanthaD>well... at least parts of it. What I would do is disable them caring about trees and remove their ability to prevent you from building stations but keep their ability to stop you blowing up buildings and roads
23:36<Supercheese>Ah, now that I think about it, I think that's all my "patch" does
23:37<Supercheese>I didn't comment out the restriction on destroying things, just building things
23:37<Supercheese>because there is already a cheat for that: Magic Bulldozer!
23:37<SamanthaD>I should write up the patch, complete with options, and post it!
23:37<Supercheese>I think there is a patch, actually
23:37<SamanthaD>might be easier to write it from scratch
23:38<SamanthaD>but if you could link me the old patch could be helpful in pointing to the apropos sections of code
23:38<Supercheese>ninja'd :P
23:38<SamanthaD>not quite what I have in mind but useful!
23:39<Supercheese>yeah, would be better in the cheat menu
23:39<SamanthaD>I dunno... I'd rather stuff it in the normal menu
23:39<SamanthaD>but I'd balance the ease that it gives you with the difficulty that comes from it
23:40<SamanthaD>as in, you can build stations no matter what but you can't bribe the city by planting trees, either
23:40<SamanthaD>someone could exploit it by turning it on and off I guess but...
23:58<Supercheese>Great success, patch seems to be working 100%
23:58<Supercheese>now I have to figure out the savegame stuff
23:58<SamanthaD>now to de-lace your custom patches :p
23:59<Supercheese>I haven't touched saveload code
23:59<Supercheese>not sure if I have to
---Logclosed Tue Aug 20 00:00:11 2013