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#openttd IRC Logs for 2013-08-25

---Logopened Sun Aug 25 00:00:18 2013
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00:07<Qsuicide>im having a real noob issue here. my subsidiaries are expiring even tho i setup the required items (i think atleast). simple stuff like mail from one town to another. when i click on the one own it says 'accepts: nothing', even tho it requires to accept mail for that subsidiary? driving me nuts
00:08<Qsuicide>how do i make a town accept something? especially something they are offering a subsidiary for?
00:09<scshunt>when you place the station, you can see what it will accept
00:09<scshunt>it depends on the buildings in the town
00:09<scshunt>and to claim a subsidy, you must actually deliver the goods, I believe
00:10<Qsuicide>so i have a subsidiary that says 'mail from town a to b', but town b accepts: nothing, how do i win? lol
00:10<Qsuicide>i put a truck stop down, setup the route, the mailtruck is full of mail, but it wont drop it off because it cant?
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00:25<scshunt>Qsuicide: You need to make sure that the station you put down in town b is near a building which accepts mail
00:25<scshunt>when you place a station, you can see what it is close to
00:25<Qsuicide>yeh, the catchment area
00:25<Qsuicide>i tried adding a second station to each down to increase this area, placing the buildings to cover as much of town as possible
00:25<Qsuicide>still no go :s
00:25<Qsuicide>none of the stations will accept mail
00:26<scshunt>don't actually place the stations
00:26<Qsuicide>truck stations?
00:26<scshunt>just open the station window and move your cursor around
00:26<scshunt>the station window will tell you what they will accept
00:26<scshunt>if the town won't accept mail anywhere, file a bug report and move on
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00:41<Qsuicide>i think, lesson learned here is not all subsidies can be done (easily/properly)
00:42<Qsuicide>if i cant make a town accept mail, dont bother to setup a mail route lol
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01:08<V453000>LOL WTF is this "colouring of dirty blocks" XD party mode?
01:20<@peter1138>It colours dirty blocks.
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01:29<V453000>well I figured it does colour mayhem more than all nuts vehicles combined, but what is it for? :D
01:30<@peter1138>So you can see what areas are redrawn.
01:31<V453000>looks funny
01:55<Qsuicide>how does one create steel from a steel mill? im feeding it truckloads of ore, says its producing, but my truck stop never has 'steel' waiting
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02:01<@peter1138>It won't have steel waiting if no vehicle carrying steel has visited
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02:23<Supercheese>Hmm, the OpenTTD icon is surely GPL licensed; if I were to release a 3D model of the icon, it seems it would have to be GPL as well
02:23<Supercheese>unfortunately, my model uses CC-BY-SA licensed components
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02:52*andythenorth wonders if nml would go any faster with a single spritesheet instead of many
02:56*andythenorth -> zo
02:56<andythenorth>zoo *
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04:16<LordAro>\o __ln__
04:29<@Terkhen>good morning
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04:45<Qsuicide>how do i fight the bermuda triangle?
04:45<Qsuicide>my jets keep disappearing magically :S
04:46<V453000>set max_aircraft to 0 and use trains instead
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04:46<V453000>if you look carefully, the aircraft just flew off the map accidentally
04:47<Qsuicide>for real? lol
04:47-!-Zuu is now known as Guest4437
04:47<V453000>yeah, trains have rails so it cant happen
04:48<Qsuicide>this is a bug then with the open ttd software? cant avoid my planes flying off into the abyss?
04:48<@Alberth>it is rumoured that not having fast aircraft landing at small airports also helps in not flying them off map
04:49<Qsuicide>that could be possible. im using the basic airport, but big phatty jets
04:49<Qsuicide>it didnt seem to happen with the coleman smaller jet
04:50<Qsuicide>but soon as i started ramping up into planes that carry 250ish+ people, all the sudden im wondering where my planes went
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04:50<LordAro>likely that you're using large aircraft at small airports
04:50<V453000>ok, the truth is that your aircraft is crashing on the small airports
04:50<@Alberth>hmm, not really findable at the wiki
04:51<LordAro>Alberth: add it :p
04:51<LordAro>/o Zuu
04:51<Qsuicide>i do SOMETIMES see the crashes, i just noticed all the sudden i was missing a half dozen planes, rebuilt them all, look away for a few mins, missing more planes, scratching my head..
04:51<Qsuicide>upgrading airports to test, thx for tips :)
04:53<Zuu>When upgrading an airport, the somewhat new close airport button in the station window can be useful.
04:53<LordAro>i have said before that aircraft/airports should show whether they're large or small
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04:55<V453000>newgrf people: is there some maximum of random switches that 1 sprite can be influenced by?
04:55<V453000>I have this, randomizing sprites, and recolouring
04:56<V453000>but Somehow I am not getting many of the random values, and further strangely, e.g. the sprite randomizer seems to be somehow dependent on the colour randomizer
04:56<V453000>aka I only get reversed sprites with dark blue
04:56<V453000>with no custom heads
04:57<V453000>am I running into some technical wall of maximum values?
04:59<@peter1138>There are 8 random bits. I don't know how random_switch allocates them, though.
05:01<V453000>if I count correctly, I have 28 colour schemes, 5 sprite possibilities multiplied by 2, meaning there is 10 sprite sets ... that would make 280 possibilities
05:01<V453000>I think my code already worked, presumably before I went over 255 possible outputs?
05:02<@peter1138>RAINBOWSLUG_colour_mapping_random needs 5 bits
05:02<@peter1138>param[01] = reserve_sprites(17);
05:02<@peter1138> replace(param[01]) {
05:02<@peter1138> recolour_sprite { //CCdark blue
05:02<@peter1138> /* 0xC6: 0xC6;
05:02<@peter1138> 0xC7: 0xC7;
05:02<@peter1138> 0xC8: 0xC8;
05:02<@peter1138> 0xC9: 0xC9;
05:02<@peter1138> 0xCA: 0xCA;
05:02<@peter1138> 0xCB: 0xCB;
05:02<@peter1138> 0xCC: 0xCC;
05:02<@peter1138> 0xCD: 0xCD;*/
05:02<@peter1138> } //CCdark blue
05:02<@peter1138> recolour_sprite { //CCpale green
05:02<@peter1138> 0xC6: 0x60;
05:02<@peter1138> 0xC7: 0x61;
05:02<@peter1138> 0xC8: 0x62;
05:02<@peter1138> 0xC9: 0x63;
05:02<@peter1138> 0xCA: 0x64;
05:02<V453000>you wont paste all of the recolours will you :D
05:02<@peter1138> 0xCB: 0x65;
05:03<@peter1138> 0xCC: 0x66;
05:03<@peter1138> 0xCD: 0x67;
05:03<@peter1138> } //CCpale green
05:03<@peter1138> recolour_sprite { //CCpink
05:03<@peter1138> 0xC6: 0x2A;
05:03<@peter1138> 0xC7: 0x2B;
05:03<@peter1138> 0xC8: 0x2C;
05:03<@peter1138> 0xC9: 0x2D;
05:03<@peter1138> 0xCA: 0x2E;
05:03<@peter1138> 0xCB: 0x2F;
05:03<@peter1138> 0xCC: 0x30;
05:03<LordAro>@kick peter1138 spamming :P
05:03<@peter1138> 0xCD: 0x31;
05:03<@peter1138> } //CCpink
05:03<@peter1138> recolour_sprite { //CCyellow
05:03<@peter1138> 0xC6: 0x3E;
05:03<@peter1138> 0xC7: 0x3F;
05:03<@peter1138> 0xC8: 0x40;
05:03<@peter1138> 0xC9: 0x41;
05:03<@peter1138> 0xCA: 0x42;
05:03<@peter1138> 0xCB: 0x43;
05:03<@peter1138> 0xCC: 0x44;
05:03<@peter1138> 0xCD: 0x45;
05:03<@peter1138> } //CCyellow
05:04<@peter1138> recolour_sprite { //CCred
05:04<@peter1138> 0xC6: 0xB3;
05:04<@peter1138> 0xC7: 0xB4;
05:04<@peter1138> 0xC8: 0xB5;
05:04<@peter1138> 0xC9: 0xB6;
05:04<__ln__>@seen peter1138
05:04<@DorpsGek>__ln__: peter1138 was last seen in #openttd 0 seconds ago: <peter1138> 0xC9: 0xB6;
05:04<@peter1138>What the fuck
05:04<@peter1138>Irssi paste detection fail. I never even had that in my paste buffer o_O
05:04<V453000>well, what did you mean to say instead? :)
05:05<@peter1138>I can't remember now
05:05<V453000>[11:01] <@peter1138> RAINBOWSLUG_colour_mapping_random needs 5 bits is last you said
05:05<@peter1138>RAINBOWSLUG_ZEBRA_COLOURRANDOM_rest needs 4 bits
05:06<@peter1138>RAINBOWSLUG_RAINBOWZEBRA needs 1 bit
05:06<V453000>_rest are the same as without it
05:06<@peter1138>that's 10 bits. Into 8 bits.
05:07<V453000>do randomized sprites influence this?
05:07<@peter1138>But as I say, I don't know how these bits are allocated, or if it even works like that.
05:07<V453000>k :)
05:07<@peter1138>Randomised sprites are the same thing.
05:11<V453000>will bother frog when he comes around :)
05:12<V453000>the slugs have a unicorn head as one of the options after all
05:12<V453000>thanks for trying to help :)
05:14<@peter1138>I guess if NML does some magic then it may not need to use bits.
05:15<@peter1138>Then it's 9 * 2 * 23
05:15<@peter1138>Which is way more than 256.
05:16<LordAro>@calc 9*2*23
05:16<@DorpsGek>LordAro: 414
05:17<@peter1138>And randomised sprites use the same bits.
05:25<Qsuicide>ugh. Auto Renew Money Limit..
05:26<@peter1138>Set to 0 :D
05:26<Qsuicide>lol yah.. took me 10 minutes to figure out it existed, and why my vehicles wouldnt renew automatically lol
05:27<Qsuicide>is there a way i can auto replace a vehicle with the same vehicle if it gets old?
05:29<Qsuicide>seems to only work with vehicles that have an upgrade
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05:29<@Alberth>that's autorenew
05:29<@Alberth>hi Wolf01
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06:24<thomas001>hello, i noticed that cargodist is in trunk now. will it mess up AIs when enabled? what are the recommended settings regarding symmetric/asymmetric distribution?
06:25<Zuu>Most AIs use point-to-point connections and will thus not be affected by cargodist.
06:25<Zuu>Only AIs that reuse stations will be affected by cargodist.
06:26<thomas001>good to know
06:26<@Alberth>symmetric means that cargo wants to travel in equal amounts at a line in both directions
06:26<@Alberth>that works if you have about the same amount of cargo to transport in both directions
06:26<Zuu>Note that AIs can only see the advanced settings of cargodist. They cannot yet see the information shown in station windows etc. regarding where cargo want to go etc.
06:26<@Alberth>eg passengers and mail
06:27<@Alberth>valuables in temperate too, iirc
06:28<thomas001>so i should set these 3 to symmetric and the rest to asymmetric?
06:29<@Alberth>that's up to you :p
06:30<@Alberth>asymmetric doesn't exclude the option of full trains in both directions, but it is not forced by the algorithm
06:30<thomas001>so there is no 'best practice', yet?
06:31<@Alberth>I would seriously doubt we will ever have one
06:31<@Alberth>everybody plays the game with his own favorite combination of settings and newgrfs
06:32<@Alberth>there is no common best stuff
06:32<thomas001>okay, i imagined there are common settings used in multiplayer, but seems i was wrong
06:33<thomas001>one last thing: will cargodist break ecs or firs?
06:33<Zuu>I would probably go on asymetric first and only go on symetric if needed.
06:34<Zuu>But some will think that eg. passengers should be symetric.
06:34<@Alberth>industries don't care what you do with the cargo
06:35<thomas001>okay, thank you all for the information!
06:35<@Alberth>but serving all industries at a map with a common infra structure becomes quite interesting ;)
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07:23<@DorpsGek>Commit by michi_cc :: r25743 trunk/src/video/cocoa/ (2013-08-25 11:23:10 UTC)
07:23<@DorpsGek>-Fix [FS#5705]: [OSX] Text input into an edit box would trigger hotkeys.
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07:43<Arkabzol>Haha... My first cashmaker. 100 years old now.
07:43<Arkabzol>Such timing I have.
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08:11<andythenorth>Alberth: thanks :)
08:12<@Alberth>it's what you needed?
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08:12<@Alberth>ok, yw :)
08:17<andythenorth>Alberth: l224-228 - is that a sensibly formatted docstring? I'm trying to understand the PEP rules on docstrings for classes :)
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08:17<andythenorth>looks like too many newlines to me :P
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08:24<@Alberth>it looks too few newlines to me :)
08:25<@Alberth> <-- that's epydoc
08:25<andythenorth>more balanced with the triple quotes on separate line
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08:28<andythenorth>that's what I was following :)
08:28<andythenorth>triple quotes on same line, blank lines before and after docstring?
08:28<andythenorth>ugly :P
08:28<@Alberth>ah, my convention does look nicer indeed
08:28<andythenorth>PEPs are sometimes to be honoured by ignoring them
08:28<andythenorth>especially PEP 8
08:29<@Alberth>you just have a lot of exceptions :p
08:31<@Alberth> uses my convention
08:32<@Alberth>nice things about standards, just use the one you like best :p
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09:43<Eddi|zuHause>things i hate most about multiline strings => either the indentation becomes part of the string, or you have unindented stuff in the middle of the program
09:44<TinoDidriksen>Or use concatenation.
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09:48<@Alberth>or make the strings a global value that you align against the left margin :p
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10:21<Eddi|zuHause>TinoDidriksen: but with concatenation i have to insert the newlines manually
10:21<Eddi|zuHause>i mean then '\n'
10:22<Eddi|zuHause>which is a thing i always forget everywhere
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10:33<@Alberth>I usually make a list of lines, then do "\n".join(list)
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11:43<@DorpsGek>Commit by frosch :: r25744 trunk/src/train_cmd.cpp (2013-08-25 15:43:52 UTC)
11:44<@DorpsGek>-Fix (r25648): [NewGRF] Also invalidate vehicle colour palette when rearranging consists.
11:52<V453000>always were
11:53<V453000>asdf soz :)
11:53<V453000>not meant to go here
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13:36<frosch123>LordAro: you are turning more and more into a bat
13:37<LordAro>a bat? :L
13:37*andythenorth has a terrible confession :o
13:37<frosch123>yeah, hanging from the ceiling and such
13:37<andythenorth>apart from the *horrible* terrain, toyland has some of the best graphics
13:37<frosch123>andythenorth: yup
13:37<frosch123>and most detailed animation
13:38<andythenorth>(this is original, not ogfx btw)
13:38<frosch123>if you fix the terrain by e.g. using ogfx, it is one of the nicest climates
13:38<frosch123>as in: better than 4th best :p
13:39<LordAro>wait, i'm hanging from the ceiling?
13:39*LordAro finds a ladder
13:40<frosch123>trying as chicken next?
13:41<@Alberth> -o- ?
13:42<LordAro>no idea what you're talking about :p
13:45<@DorpsGek>Commit by translators :: r25745 /trunk/src/lang (indonesian.txt serbian.txt) (2013-08-25 17:45:17 UTC)
13:45<@DorpsGek>-Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
13:45<@DorpsGek>indonesian - 10 changes by abdu354
13:45<@DorpsGek>serbian - 30 changes by ivan_mile
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15:09<V453000>1:1 realistic visualisation of what will happen by year 2099
15:11<@Alberth>really nice tracks
15:11<Zuu>Hmm, I lost my voice in .dev
15:12<Zuu>ScriptTown::FundTown(..) or ScriptTown::FoundTown?
15:12<V453000>this is more about the trains Alberth but thanks :P
15:12<@Alberth>and still block signals? :p
15:13<V453000>you mean the proper ones? :>
15:13<V453000>there is actually a relatively high amount of PBS in that game
15:13<V453000>so your argument is invalid :>
15:14<Qsuicide>public broadcast system?
15:14<@Alberth>Zuu: CmdFoundTown says the source code
15:14<V453000>pretty bad signals
15:14<Qsuicide>i havent even started playing with trains yet. oh wait no. i did a coal loop ftw. 1 train, 1 lane, no accidents :D
15:16<frosch123>Zuu: you found a new town, you fund new building in an existing town
15:16<@Alberth>slugs look so nice, and I haven't even played with wetrails yet
15:17<@Alberth>you're so quick with making new additions!
15:17<Qsuicide>oh LOL those are slugs. i just thought it looked like rollercoaster cars
15:17<@Alberth>nah, they don't go upside down
15:18<V453000>they indeed dont Alberth, but some of them do go backwards XD
15:18<Qsuicide>you have so many trains, but nowhere for the people to live :(
15:18<frosch123>V453000: are the tracks purr tracks?
15:19<V453000>yes. green ones
15:19<frosch123>ok, finally sane maglev tracks
15:19<V453000>only 565 trains on 256x256 Qsuicide
15:20<Qsuicide>oh thats not too many at all :o
15:20<Qsuicide>65536 squares, 565 trains, <1%!
15:20<Qsuicide>time to ramp it up eh?
15:21<frosch123>well, you have to consider train length 5 at least :p
15:21<frosch123>you cannot expect every tile to have two parallel tracks
15:22<frosch123>V453000: the black slug with hat looks like a cow
15:22<V453000>yes they need some improved contrast to make them more obvious
15:22<frosch123>i like cows :)
15:22<Qsuicide>how many hours does a 100 year game take at normal speed?
15:23<Qsuicide>so around 15 minutes per year
15:23<frosch123>@calc 100*365*74*0.03/3600
15:23<@DorpsGek>frosch123: 22.5083333333
15:23<Qsuicide>74? 0.03?
15:24<LordAro>74 ticks per day
15:24<frosch123>74 ticks per ingame day, 30 milliseconds per tick
15:24<Qsuicide>odd number lol
15:24<LordAro>blame cs :p
15:25<Qsuicide>so 2.22 seconds per day
15:25<Qsuicide>kk thx for maffs
15:25<Zuu>frosch123: You can found a town. But you could possible also fund the cost of founding a town.
15:25<V453000>frosch and his meths
15:26<Zuu>But Found is ok with me.
15:26<frosch123>Zuu: yeah, but we already discussed that lengthly in the past :p
15:26<Zuu>I must have missed that discussion. :-)
15:26<frosch123>found is the new-town thingie, fund is the town-authorithy action
15:27<frosch123>V453000: meth? myth? math?
15:29<V453000>all of the above?
15:29<V453000>how else do you explain unicorns
15:29<V453000>math people on meth following myths
15:29<frosch123>unicorns are easily explained, considering they can travel in time and space
15:30<frosch123>though i am unsure about the total amount of unicorns
15:31<frosch123>might be the "last unicorn" is only a joke-ish way to say "there is only one unique unicorn, but it can team up with itself by travelling in time and space"
15:32<V453000>ok that sounds more than awkward :D
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15:38<V453000>just discovered this on our server
15:44<Supercheese>slugs with top hats
15:44<scshunt>Supercheese: the greatest
15:46<Supercheese>Will NUTS ever expand to aircraft?
15:46<V453000>surely not
15:46<Supercheese>Aww, I wanted to see dragonfly helicopters and pegasi
15:46<V453000>waste of time :)
15:48<frosch123>it has hover animals instead
15:49<frosch123>V453000: anyway, who built and sold so many slugs to end up with the right ones?
15:49<V453000>some guy named solo
15:49<scshunt>what makes a slug say fashion?
15:49<scshunt>I've seen behatted slugs without fashion
15:49<scshunt>also is nuts just going to become slugs?
15:49<scshunt>(not that I have a problem with this)
15:50<frosch123>scshunt: i think V is just extending the timeline of new engines into the future
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15:53<V453000>slug is the ultimate bonus engine, it isnt even within the main 1920-2070 range as frosch says
15:54<Bad_Brett>why did i read "I've seen beheaded sluts without fashion"?
16:03<V453000>scshunt: they say it only when travelling in the one specific direction (and have a hat)
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16:59<andythenorth>time for bed
16:59<andythenorth>said zebedee
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17:08<Wolf01>night all
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---Logclosed Mon Aug 26 00:00:20 2013