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#openttd IRC Logs for 2013-09-06

---Logopened Fri Sep 06 00:00:05 2013
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03:54<dihedral>good morning
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06:28<oskari89>Someone could update that diagonal levelling and clearing, since it's on trunk
06:29<@peter1138>Yeah, someone could.
06:31<alluke>does anybody know what causes this in spring 2013 patchpack?
06:32<@planetmaker>oskari89, wiki anyone?
06:32<@planetmaker>If no-one does what anyone could do because everyone thinks that someone would do, it won't be done
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06:35<@planetmaker>oskari89, it generally is totally pointless to ask that someone should update a wiki page if you know yourself what should be done. You know. Then do it
06:35<@planetmaker>after all you had the time to "complain" here. Better spent fixing
06:38<oskari89>Hmm, could do that :)
06:42<@peter1138>alluke really doesn't want people to click on his images.
06:42<alluke>do people lurk this on work or what
06:43<@peter1138>1) Many people are at work, yes.
06:43<@peter1138>2) Nobody here is involved with this patch pack.
06:43<alluke>i think they should do their work insead of wasting their time here
06:44<alluke>i wouldnt be so sure about the 2)
06:46<Eddi|zuHause>there is very little overlap between our community here and the russian community
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06:59<Xaroth|Work>alluke: I might be online, but that doesn't mean I'm not working
07:00<Xaroth|Work>the fact out of 114 people, only a handfull talked to you, does not mean the other 109 are constantly watching their screen afraid to talk
07:00<Xaroth|Work>it means the other 109 are probably not around, doing other (more important) things
07:05<LordAro>or just can't be bothered to reply to you ;)
07:15<@Rubidium>luckily miham isn't here... his bouncer from his previous job still joins occasionally (possibly reboot of the server it runs on)
07:17<LordAro>heh, the legacy of past employees :)
07:24<oskari89>Is there any documentation of "story book patch" ?
07:26<oskari89>Nevermind, found out already :P
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09:09<jonty-comp>"wtf you cant make trains with a blender, you use a 3d program like opengl"
09:09<jonty-comp>forum post of the week
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09:21<LordAro>jonty-comp/peter1138: can i get a link?
09:21<LordAro>/o Bad_Brett
09:22<@planetmaker>ho Bad_Brett
09:22<Bad_Brett>hi planetmaker
09:23<@planetmaker>wanna try get one part maybe in a repo so that we can see how it goes? maybe starting with an engine?
09:23<Bad_Brett>yeah, i was going to ask you to activate my account
09:23<Bad_Brett>because i still haven't got that e-mail
09:24<@planetmaker>I activated it, yes. We had some issue with the e-mailer there
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09:25<@planetmaker>Today I've two hours from now on
09:27<@planetmaker>given the size of stuff etc, I think it makes sense make a few separate NewGRFs which are easily combined?
09:27<Bad_Brett>yeah, that's how i do it right now
09:27<@planetmaker>with what to start? engines? ground?
09:27<Bad_Brett>one for the landscape, one for towns, one for industries and so on
09:28<Bad_Brett>maybe the engines? those are the ones that will require most work and most fine-tuning
09:29<@planetmaker>how does goldrush-trains as name (for URL purposes) sound?
09:29<@peter1138>LordAro, < that one I guess.
09:30<Bad_Brett>sound good
09:30<@peter1138>Separate vehicle NewGRFs?
09:30<juzza1>that thread was very amusing to read
09:31<Bad_Brett>oh, the project is already up? that was quick :-)
09:32<@planetmaker> - the repo will be created automatically in a few minutes (<7)
09:32<LordAro>peter1138: i find it amusing how the top result for "lacognia" is that thread :D
09:33<Bad_Brett>should i set user rights?
09:34<LordAro>the "I'm an old timer!" thread is starting to get amusing too
09:35<@planetmaker>Bad_Brett, what user rights?
09:36<@planetmaker>easiest way is to clone that empty repository and starting to add stuff there
09:36<@planetmaker>hg clone
09:36<Bad_Brett>i don't know... this will take some time getting used to ;-)
09:36<LordAro>welcome to the lovely fluffy world of VCSs :)
09:37<Bad_Brett>i'm reading the guide right now
09:37<@planetmaker>Bad_Brett, should I... try to setup a dummy newgrf therein?
09:37<Bad_Brett>yeah, that would be helpful i think
09:37<@planetmaker>like prepare for building so that only code + graphics need adding? Ok
09:45<LordAro>should come by default :p
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09:46<@planetmaker>any grfID, Bad_Brett ?
09:46<@planetmaker>or just like... "gr\0\0"?
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09:46<Bad_Brett>yeah that's good
09:47<LordAro>"gold" ?
09:47<@planetmaker>LordAro, but we need more than one :-)
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10:00<@planetmaker>so, there we go. Pre-configured NewGRF within the repo. But a bit... void of content :D
10:01<Bad_Brett>hello belugas
10:01<@Belugas>hello sir :)
10:02<@planetmaker>salut Belugas
10:02<Bad_Brett>hmm, i've got to do some modifications to get this to work i believe
10:02<@Belugas>Bonjour planetmaker :)
10:03<@Belugas>Have you tried the 50mm yet?
10:03<@planetmaker>how do you currently build it, Bad_Brett ?
10:03<@planetmaker>if you have a single nml file, we can also start there
10:04<Bad_Brett>yeah, currently i'm generating one big nml file
10:04<@planetmaker>(though I'd like to change that later on, but... that's no issue at all to change later)
10:05<@planetmaker>Bad_Brett, if you name the single nml file goldrush-trains.nml in the main directory of the repo, then it will work, too
10:05<Bad_Brett>yeah, my goldrush editor creates it automatically
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10:05<Bad_Brett>i'll try that first
10:05<@planetmaker>uh... how does it 'create' it?
10:06<@planetmaker>there's no editor which automaticalyl creates NML files ;-)
10:06<Bad_Brett>yes there is, because i programmed it ;-)
10:07<@planetmaker>then it should be part of the repo... kinda
10:07<Bad_Brett>there is a catch
10:07<Bad_Brett>'s written in matlab
10:07<@planetmaker>freak ;-)
10:07<Bad_Brett>i'm a mechanical engineer, not a programmer
10:08<@planetmaker>well, even when devzone doesn't use it, it makes sense to add it. And its output the nml file. so that devzone can also build it
10:09<@planetmaker>and it would give for instance me an idea on how you generate it
10:09<Bad_Brett>i'm gonna give you a heart attack when you see my coding style
10:10<@planetmaker>:-) don't worry
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10:18<@planetmaker>Bad_Brett, I'm not too concerned. I've a bit of history with re-structuring NewGRF code ;-)
10:18<@planetmaker>or better said, grf code
10:19<@peter1138>I've been known to write some terrible C :D
10:30<Bad_Brett>i just write a new function when i need it... pick random variables for loops
10:30<Bad_Brett>or, variable names
10:31<Bad_Brett>everything's a mess
10:32<@planetmaker>well. Don't be shy :-)
10:32<@planetmaker>I can only make suggestions if I actually know to what end
10:33<@planetmaker>so, what I'd suggest: the nml file as goldrush-trains.nml. the required graphics to build it (and in folders as needed so that it builds). And the generator
10:35<Bad_Brett>the generator consists of maybe 100 different function files and only a few of them are connected to the trains
10:35<Bad_Brett>should i just upload the function file that generates the nml file?
10:36<Bad_Brett>or files
10:36<@planetmaker>could it run on its own (provided I throw it in matlab here)?
10:37<@planetmaker>let's assume I have access to a matlab license then :D
10:38<Bad_Brett>in theory, it could be compiled so that you only need the matlab compiler runtime to run it
10:39<Bad_Brett>but if you have matlab, i could upload the entire thing
10:39<@planetmaker>it's as much effort for me as to install it
10:40<@planetmaker>it's licensed to the whole university
10:41<Bad_Brett>even though it may seem as an odd choice to develop game mods in, it does have some advantages over C++ i would say
10:42<Bad_Brett>although it's a 100 times slower :D
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10:47<Bad_Brett>i've got to organize a lot of files and folders, so it will probably take a couple of days to get things up and running
10:48<@planetmaker>uh, can't you build it localy now?
10:50<Bad_Brett>yeah, but i've got tons of outdated stuff in the folders that should be removed first
10:52<@planetmaker>I see the point
10:53<Bad_Brett>i think it will save time in the end
10:53<@planetmaker>what can help: add stuff you think is needed (and be conservative). Build. Add stuff it barfs on. Rinse and repeat until it builds
10:53<@planetmaker>then you have only added the stuff to that checkout which is needed
10:54<@planetmaker>well, kinda.
10:54<@planetmaker>but as it's your stuff, you should be good at making educated guesses :-)
10:55<Bad_Brett>don't say that :-)
10:55<@planetmaker>I do! :-P
11:00<Bad_Brett>thanks, i guess :-)
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12:24<DanMacK>Hey all
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12:52<maddy_>hi guys
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13:02<Bad_Brett>does anyone know if this has been discussed since february?
13:03<Bad_Brett>because it annoys me as well
13:08<Eddi|zuHause>i agree with frosch123 that this is probably platform dependent, and thus should not be tried to be fixed by the newgrf
13:17<Miauw>I think that funding new roads is actually a way to fuck over your opponents instead of helping the town grow faster;
13:18<@Alberth>the easiest solution to that is not to play against others :p
13:19<Miauw>I'm playing alone.
13:19<Miauw>But I tought "Oh, I think I'll help this town grow faster"
13:19<Miauw>And now I have to wait to set up my good transport line :c
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13:21<@Alberth>too many trees removed?
13:21<Miauw>I just wanted this town to expand faster.
13:21<Miauw>The top is kinda sliced off by a passenger railroad.
13:22<Miauw>I'm new to this game :P
13:22<@Alberth> well, you've more experience transporting pax than I have, I think :)
13:23<@Alberth>I never do passengers transport, I play only industrial transports
13:23<Miauw>I'm just doing passenger transport because it's fun.
13:23<Miauw>And I just found this game last week, so
13:24<@Alberth>oh, so you've a lot to experiment and explore :)
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13:28<@peter1138>Yeah, funding new roads does not help you at all.
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13:37<Wolf01>hi SamanthaD
13:38<SamanthaD>hey Wolf01! how's it going?
13:40<SamanthaD>I just woke up
13:41<Wolf01>I just finished 8 hourd @ work and 45 minutes of car trip
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13:53<Miauw>Is there any way to quickly jump to a specific order?
13:55<Wolf01>automatically or via the skip order button?
13:56<Miauw>As in, I've got this truck that's stopped with 70 orders and I want to jump to order 45
13:56<Wolf01>uhm, nice
13:56<Miauw>I have too many bus stations.
13:57<@Alberth>70 orders? :O
13:57<Miauw>Yes >.>
13:57<Miauw>It's mostly a loop but with slightly different orders.
13:58<Miauw>BEcause I have a few lower-priority stations and multiple stations in one city etc.
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13:59<@Alberth>perhjaps you can make a few groups of buses, where a group visits only (relative) few stations?
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13:59<Miauw_>Why does that keep happening.
13:59<Miauw_>I have to switch networks or IRC just stops working for no reason.
14:00<@Alberth>oh that, your ISP connection is not entirely stable
14:01<@Alberth>there is a trade-off between speed and stability, and most providers choose speed then
14:01<@Alberth>which is fine for browsing, but less good for long-time connections like IRC
14:02<Miauw_>I guess.
14:02<Miauw_>It's not really that.
14:02<Miauw_>And it's been happening since a few days ago.
14:02<Miauw_>Not before that
14:03<Miauw_>I get disconnected and it's unable to find the irc server
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14:12<Miauw>Apparently this town hates me.
14:12<Miauw>Despite me not ever having done anything near it.
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---Logclosed Fri Sep 06 15:20:20 2013
---Logopened Fri Sep 06 15:21:25 2013
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15:25<andythenorth>Alberth :) o/
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15:25<V453000>rest \o
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16:05<@Terkhen>good night
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16:33<andythenorth>so how many levels of class inheritance in python before it gets silly?
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16:33<@Rubidium>andythenorth: about 10?
16:33<scshunt>err, three
16:34<scshunt>there, I just made it silly so you can make it as deep as you'd like
16:34<andythenorth>Train -> Engine -> Articulated -> Diesel
16:34<andythenorth>seems like to many
16:34<andythenorth>like using inheritance just to show I know about it :P
16:34<andythenorth>too *
16:35<scshunt>that's a bad inheritance hierarchy
16:35<@Alberth>it's natural to mess with the number of levels until you find out what works :)
16:35<scshunt>what if you have a non-articulated diesel engine?
16:35<andythenorth>Train -> Engine -> Diesel
16:35<andythenorth>Diesel is probably just a mixin
16:35<andythenorth>articulated probably isn't
16:35<@Rubidium>Animalia -> Chordata -> Mammalia -> Primates -> Hominidae -> Homonini -> Homo -> Homo sapiens -> Homo sapiens sapiens
16:36<@Alberth>anything common between Train->Engine and Train->NotEngine ?
16:36<andythenorth>Alberth: logically yes
16:36<andythenorth>practically I think not
16:36<andythenorth>I'd have to duplicate a bit of code
16:36<andythenorth>violates Don't Repeat Yourself
16:36<andythenorth>but flat > nested
16:36<andythenorth>I'd rather just do TrainEngine -> Articulated -> Diesel
16:36<@Alberth>the sweet spot is somewhere in the middle
16:37<andythenorth>an TrainWagon -> Boxcar
16:38<andythenorth>if I have to search through too many super() statements to find a property or method, it's tedious
16:39<@Alberth>it's a sign you're over-engineering things :)
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16:43<scshunt>the question to as yo[BI'd ask how much an gengine is actually different from a wagon
16:47<andythenorth>who codes trains?
16:47<andythenorth>Eddi|zuHause ?
16:47<andythenorth>afaik an engine is same as a wagon, except powered
16:47*andythenorth should go read the spec :P
16:47<@Alberth>it's easy, even I managed :)
16:48<andythenorth>Alberth: do you want to mangle the rest of FISH to make the code for Iron Horse?
16:48<andythenorth>I am 30% done :P
16:49<andythenorth>maybe 20% :P
16:50<andythenorth>what differences are there between engine and wagon?
16:50<andythenorth>when coding newgrf?
16:50<Eddi|zuHause>just power=0
16:50<andythenorth>I could just define train
16:50<andythenorth>and mixin for power
16:51<Eddi|zuHause>or you could just make it a parameter of __init__?
16:51<andythenorth>could do
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16:51<Eddi|zuHause>i just read the properties from the table
16:51<Eddi|zuHause>it says Steam/Diesel/Wagon
16:52<andythenorth>ok thanks I'll think on
16:52*andythenorth -> bed
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16:54<Eddi|zuHause>PS: my generator is not object oriented (mostly)
16:54<@Alberth>andy can fix that for you :)
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---Logclosed Sat Sep 07 00:00:07 2013