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#openttd IRC Logs for 2013-09-09

---Logopened Mon Sep 09 00:00:12 2013
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02:37<dihedral>good morning
02:37*dihedral yawns
02:39<maddy_>morning
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05:12<retro|cz>Hello. Is there any chance how to change email for my openttd.org account (including FlySpray) ?
05:13<retro|cz>And maybe realname also.
05:17<@planetmaker>retro|cz, send an e-mail to info@ with old info, and desired new info. I can then see later this week what can be done
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05:20<retro|cz>planetmaker, sent
05:21<retro|cz>planetmaker, thanks
05:21<retro|cz>planetmaker, this is very low priority. Don't waste time with that.
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05:24<retro|cz>planetmaker, I'm also programmer. Maybe I can help with implementing this into website. I'll take a little like into openttd/extra/website.git
05:27<dihedral><retro|cz> planetmaker, this is very low priority. Don't waste time with that. <- they would not :-D
05:31<@planetmaker>:-)
05:31<@planetmaker>I agree, I do believe that changing one's own account is one of the missing things at our website
05:32<@planetmaker>Not 100% sure how far you get with what's in our repo - though I believe that stuff is all there (except the DB, of course)
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05:56<retro|cz>planetmaker, hmm. I can't find db skeleton (or any db schema).
05:57<retro|cz>And I found first bug. I sent patch to flyspray.
05:58<LordAro>/o
06:01<Xaroth|Work>retro|cz: the website repo requires a lot more work tbqfh
06:02<retro|cz>Xaroth, so it's not easy to run dev. version locally now?
06:02<retro|cz>I have Django, LDAP and MySQL installed locally.
06:02<Xaroth|Work>LDAP is finnicky
06:04<retro|cz>Xaroth, version or setup?
06:04<Xaroth|Work>getting the same schema as openttd uses
06:07<retro|cz>And can't it be exported (only schema, not data) ?
06:07<retro|cz>And be part of that repo for easier dev. setup?
06:07<retro|cz>And same problem is probably for MySQL basic schema and basic seed.
06:07<Xaroth|Work>django doesn't do sql schema
06:08<Xaroth|Work>it creates it when asked to
06:22<retro|cz>What Django is needed? I have 1.5.2 installed.
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06:31<retro|cz>Xaroth, I'm getting weird errors. Is there any readme how to setup basic dev. env?
06:31<retro|cz>For example I need to remove PROJECT_NAME + '.' for installed apps.
06:31<retro|cz>Basically everything what is prefixed with PROJECT_NAME can't be loaded. When I remove that prefix, it is ok.
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06:53<Xaroth|Work>retro|cz: it's not using 1.5.2, that's for sure
06:53<Xaroth|Work>I'd start at 0.9 and work your way up
06:53<retro|cz>Xaroth, oki, thanks
06:54<Xaroth|Work>but chances are you're lacking some basic plugins
06:54<Xaroth|Work>which will cause it to fail regardless of the version
06:57<maddy_>dihedral is your site down? (openttd.dihedral.de)
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07:19<retro|cz>Xaroth, yup I had. For example ldap python library. But that problem with PROJECT_NAME wasn't related to this. Probably to bad Django version. I'll try to use older later.
07:21<retro|cz>It should use pip requirements for example to handle dependencies.
07:22<SpComb>django fixed their previously crazy import paths
07:23<SpComb>although that should go the other way, with you needing to add the project name to imports
07:32<Xaroth|Work>retro|cz: I doubt that bit of code is actively maintained tbh
07:33<SpComb>porting an old django project to a modern django version can take a bit of work
07:33<SpComb>staticfiles etc
07:33<Xaroth|Work>I'd say it'd be faster to rebuild it :P
07:34<@planetmaker>if you want to port it, port it to python3
07:34<Xaroth|Work>wait what?
07:35<@planetmaker>then it's feasible to adjust eints as new web translator. It requires python3
07:35<Xaroth|Work>port it to 2.7 and make sure the 2to3 tool can migrate it for py3k use :)
07:35<Xaroth|Work>3to2 is a lot more annoying than 2to3
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07:38<dihedral><maddy_> dihedral is your site down? (openttd.dihedral.de) < has been for years, why do you ask?
07:38<dihedral>what are you looking for?
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07:44<maddy_>http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?t=32659
07:44<maddy_>maybe you could update that post if it is no longer available, or if links are no longer up to date?
07:44<dihedral>that thing is from 2007
07:45<dihedral>... Sir!
07:48<maddy_>well, yeah, that doesn't tell me it's no longer available though
07:48<maddy_>is it btw?
07:50<dihedral>it's not available, as i said, has not been for years now
07:51<dihedral>and i will not go around updating all my posts from 6 years ago
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08:01<alluke>permission denied when trying to ./configure ottd source
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08:03<maddy_>dihedral: well I understand you don't want to update all your posts, sure, but if you have released something for the community, is that too much trouble to update only *those* posts? and btw add only one line notification or something
08:08<dihedral>maddy_, do you really think it is worth the hassle trying to convince someone you cannot convince?
08:08<maddy_>convince who, of what?
08:09<dihedral>you are trying to tell me to update something i will not update
08:09<dihedral>a post from 2007
08:09<dihedral>forget it
08:09<maddy_>not a big deal for me, either way
08:09<dihedral>then why even bother?
08:13<dihedral>there we go - back to silence mode :-)
08:17<maddy_>my point is that if I see a link for something, and it is down, I have to log on irc and ask you personally...your server could have gone down say 5 minutes ago, without you knowing, so I want to ask you about it, in case it should be up
08:18<dihedral>if there was a dns entry for openttd.dihedral.de ok - but there is none
08:19<@peter1138>lol @ alluke
08:20<TWerkhoven>ello
08:21<Xaroth|Work>sup twerk
08:24<TWerkhoven>just back from work
08:25<TWerkhoven>had a look at that double-disconnect issue yet? i've put a workaround in soap just now
08:35<Xaroth|Work>nope
08:35<Xaroth|Work>been working too much :|
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08:56<maddy_>dihedral: yeah, I did not check for a dns entry, and I don't want to assume some link should not work just because it's dated 2007
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09:03<dihedral>maddy_, your browser gives you a hint!
09:03<dihedral>;-)
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09:08<DanMacK>Hey all
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10:32<retro|cz>Xaroth|Work, since you think web code is unmaintained, is any chance to get this deployed http://bugs.openttd.org/task/5744 ?
10:32<retro|cz>Xaroth, or reviewed, merged, ...
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10:34<Xaroth|Work>that part is easy, adding new functionality to it, might prove difficult
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11:24<V453000>XD planetmaker envy me! :D http://blog.openttdcoop.org/files/blog/V453000/I_WIN.png
11:27<@Rubidium>so... there's a public list of banned people?
11:27<V453000>list of me
11:27<V453000>:>
11:27*V453000 feels special
11:27<Eddi|zuHause>very... medieval
11:27<@peter1138>Oh, SAC is American?
11:27<V453000>Eddi|zuHause: why medieval
11:27<Eddi|zuHause>http://dailypicture.yakohl.com/pic/pranger_1012010.jpg
11:27<V453000>we also have honorary members
11:27<V453000>I feel promoted by this
11:28<TWerkhoven>lol
11:28<V453000>not to mention that her claims about copyright whatnot are laughably untrue and she knows it
11:28<V453000>if it is "her" actually ...
11:28<V453000>might be "him" from certain sources
11:29<@peter1138>Who cares.
11:30<V453000>exactly
11:31*peter1138 is slightly confused as to who is allowed to 'use' US laws.
11:31<@peter1138>I guess Dropbox is USian.
11:32<@peter1138>Stolen_Trees-1.tar < should I delete that?
11:32<V453000>yes from all computers all over the world please
11:32<V453000>also remove the original license in case it is allowing anything
11:34<@peter1138>It says CC BY-NC-ND 3.0
11:34<V453000>which obviously allows redistribution
11:34<V453000>so yeah
11:34<@peter1138>Not if it's wrong.
11:35<V453000>I dont think she is having problems with "how" anybody distributes it
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11:35<Eddi|zuHause>german copyright has a paragraph that allows you to revoke licenses for some vaguely specified "personal opinion" reason
11:36<DanMacK>Hey all
11:36<@peter1138>Hi DanMacK. Who are you hiding from? :D
11:37<@peter1138>Hmm
11:37<DanMacK>nobody, my MIRC is being a bitch lol
11:37<@peter1138>Or tor is Toronto... not The Onion Router...
11:37<DanMacK>Toronto :P
11:37<@peter1138>I iz clevah
11:38<Eddi|zuHause>http://www.gesetze-im-internet.de/urhg/__42.html
11:38<Eddi|zuHause>but that means they can't distribute it to ANYONE anymore, or they have to re-give permission to the person they revoked it from
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11:53<Miauw>So, I have another question...
11:54<Miauw>Is there a way to load goods from one vehicle to another?
11:55<Pinkbeast>Only by way of a station.
11:55<DanMacK>Transfer order at a station
11:55<Miauw>Oh, alright.
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12:15<@Terkhen>hello
12:17<retro|cz>hello
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13:26<retro|cz>frosch123, hello
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13:28<frosch123>moin
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13:45<@DorpsGek>Commit by translators :: r25756 trunk/src/lang/indonesian.txt (2013-09-09 17:45:12 UTC)
13:45<@DorpsGek>-Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
13:45<@DorpsGek>indonesian - 2 changes by UseYourIllusion
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14:17<retro|cz>planetmaker, is this correct frosch123?
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14:35<@Alberth>instead of highlighting everybody, why don't explain your problem in general here?
14:39<Xaroth|Work>I have the answer: http://i.imgur.com/cv172Rp.jpg
14:45<@Rubidium>Xaroth|Work: interesting universe
14:51<Xaroth|Work>Rubidium: then, for you, a pygmy owl: http://i.imgur.com/KPrV6d1.jpg
14:52<@Rubidium>Xaroth|Work: interesting because the 'babies' are getting smaller than their 'parents'
14:53<@Rubidium>hence, interesting universe
14:53<Xaroth|Work>Rubidium: that too :)
14:54<Miauw>...
14:54<Miauw>Is there any way to cheat in a new factory?
14:54<LordAro>Xaroth|Work: cuuuttee!! :3
14:54<Miauw>I just set up a rather large industrial chain to feed a factory.
14:54<Miauw>And the factory promptly decided to dissapear.
14:54<LordAro>cheat yourself some money
14:55<LordAro>fund new industry
14:55<Miauw>Can I choose where?
14:55<retro|cz>Miauw, yup
14:55<Miauw>Yay
14:55<LordAro>if you haven't changed the setting to prospecting, yes
14:58<Miauw>Muh, it was time to end that game anyway >.>
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15:04<Xaroth|Work>LordAro: :)
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15:30<Djohaal>harro
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15:34<@Alberth>o/
15:34<Djohaal>just a question, is does the ECS pack have its source going around? Development has stopped since 2011 and I'm worried we might lose it if TTD loses backward compat D:
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15:36<oskari89>George might know?
15:41<Djohaal>oh george is still around
15:41<Djohaal>herp
15:41<Djohaal>I thought it was one of those cases of the creator going MIA in vietnam or something :p
15:42<andythenorth>no george is still around
15:42<andythenorth>and active
15:42<Djohaal>sweet
15:43<Djohaal>I found one issue with it tho, the construction branch doesn't have toggles for infinite mines and such
15:58<@DorpsGek>Commit by rubidium :: r25757 extra/website/frontpage/templates/frontpage/development.html (2013-09-09 19:58:50 UTC)
15:58<@DorpsGek>[website] -Fix [FS#5744]: broken link in development section (retro)
16:00<frosch123>Djohaal: george is mainly working on the xussr trainset
16:00<Djohaal>ahh
16:00<Djohaal>I saw it, looks sweet
16:00<@Alberth>sure that is not done that way by design? (no idea, but I could imagine that to happen)
16:01<Djohaal>given all other branches allow for infinite mines, I assume some slip
16:01<@Alberth>seems likely
16:04<__ln__>is this grammatical: http://i.imgur.com/QNAlr0S.jpg
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16:39<TinoDidriksen>__ln__, yes, but probably not with the meaning they intended. "be sat" implies someone else forcefully sitting them down. Should be "sit" or more correctly "be sitting"
16:40<Djohaal>I'm getting a client disconnecting from my server (nightly build) due to "processing map too long"
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16:44<Bad_Brett>hey danmack
16:44<DanMacK>Hey Brett, how goes it?
16:44<@Alberth>Djohaal: http://wiki.openttd.org/FAQ_multiplayer#People_get_disconnected_while_joining.2C_how_to_fix_that.3F is probably useful
16:44<Djohaal>abh herp
16:44<Djohaal>thanks
16:45<Bad_Brett>great, thank you :-)
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16:51<Bad_Brett>why do i listen to linux users?
16:52<LordAro>because we're awesome?
16:52<andythenorth>never listen to linux users if you are on OS X
16:52<Bad_Brett>i'm on windows xp
16:52<andythenorth>I listened to someone here once, put aside 10 years of OS X experience, and then had to rebuild my development environment for ~2 days :P
16:52<Bad_Brett>haha
16:55*planetmaker whistles innocently :D
16:56<@planetmaker>but I never know which advice andy takes and which not ;-)
16:56<Bad_Brett>:D
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16:59<andythenorth>planetmaker: wasn't you ;)
16:59<@planetmaker>:D
17:06<Eddi|zuHause><TinoDidriksen> __ln__, yes, but probably not with the meaning they intended. "be sat" implies someone else forcefully sitting them down. Should be "sit" or more correctly "be sitting" <- i'd put a "that" in there as well, but that might just be my german mind projecting grammar into it.
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17:17<Bad_Brett>what the hell... i rewrote my code and everything works perfectly, but when i concatenate the pnml files a "" is added at the end of the file, which nmlc won't accept
17:17<Bad_Brett>time to rtfm
17:18<juzza1>Zorro has invaded your computer
17:19<Bad_Brett>and he adds end of file characters to all my files
17:19<Bad_Brett>the horror!
17:21<Bad_Brett>there... solved
17:21<Bad_Brett>rtfm did the trick
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17:40<wakou2>In the north of England 'to be sat at home' is perfectly correct. I have heard "he were sat sitting" as well. English usage varies.
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18:14<Djohaal>also
18:15<Djohaal>why I do I love the fact that when you have a horse carriage and it breaks down it lets out a smoke plume :P
18:15<frosch123>it's not smoke
18:15<frosch123>look closer
18:16<frosch123>or better: don't
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18:28<Eddi|zuHause>i find the sound it makes way more interesting :p
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18:30<Eddi|zuHause>NSA: "No, we're not doing industrial espionage, we just want to know ahead of time when the next economical crisis hits"
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18:43<Djohaal>hmm
18:43<Djohaal>question
18:43<Djohaal>say I have a group of trains with the same order
18:43<Djohaal>how can I quickly change all those orders to another set
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18:56<Eddi|zuHause>you need to make "shared orders" (click "go to" and then ctrl+click on another train)
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18:57<Eddi|zuHause>after that. all changes you make to one train, will automatically be done for the other train as well
18:58<Eddi|zuHause>likewise, if you clone a train, you can ctrl+click to make the new train automatically have shared orders
18:59<Djohaal>aha
18:59<Djohaal>control click
19:00<Eddi|zuHause>ctrl activates a lot of hidden features
19:00<Bad_Brett>can you have different breakdown animations for different vehicles?
19:01<Bad_Brett>because i always imagined that my horses would stop randomly to eat some hay :-)
19:01<Eddi|zuHause>Bad_Brett: i don't think so. requires newgrf effect vehicles
19:02<Eddi|zuHause>which iirc is in a "someone should write a spec" phase
19:03<Bad_Brett>yeah, but for newgrf's...
19:03<Bad_Brett>the vehicle_is_broken could be used i guess
19:04<Eddi|zuHause>"effect vehicles" is everything that is smoke and some more stuff
19:04<Bad_Brett>i have no idea what that is
19:05<Eddi|zuHause>steam puffs, breakdown smoke, industry smoke
19:05<Bad_Brett>oh yeah, but that's still on the drawing table, right?
19:06<Eddi|zuHause>in certain events, the game creates these vehicles
19:06<Eddi|zuHause>but this is currently hardcoded
19:06<Bad_Brett>yeah, that's what i thought
19:07<Djohaal>hmm
19:07<Bad_Brett>but in the meantime, i guess we could just switch the spriteset when the vehicle breaks down?
19:07<Eddi|zuHause>so even if you had a "broken down" variable which you check in your newgrf, you can't disable the smoke
19:07<Djohaal>well let's say I have a group of trains with shared orders
19:07<Djohaal>how can I grab one train and make its orders unique
19:07<Bad_Brett>i can't disable the smoke?
19:07<Eddi|zuHause>Djohaal: click the line that says "end of shared orders" and delete that
19:07<Djohaal>leave the smoking horses. They funny D:
19:07<Bad_Brett>what about the "TRAIN_FLAG_NO_BREAKDOWN_SMOKE" flag?
19:08<Eddi|zuHause>Bad_Brett: oh, haven't seen that before
19:09<Bad_Brett>my idea was basically to activate that flag on covered wagons, and change the spriteset instead
19:09<Eddi|zuHause>Bad_Brett: maybe that works...
19:10<Bad_Brett>i don't think i have tried it
19:10<Bad_Brett>maybe i should do a test grf
19:11<Bad_Brett>by the way, do you know if there's some variable that can be used for animations when the vehicle is stopped?
19:11<Bad_Brett>would be useful for loading/unloading as well
19:12<Eddi|zuHause>no idea
19:15<Bad_Brett>hmm
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19:48<Djohaal>also
19:48<Djohaal>for the million dollar question
19:48<Djohaal>when will GUI resizing be a thing? D:
20:02<juzza1>fonts can be resized, there is a newgrf for bigger GUI
20:03<juzza1>so i'd say it's already a thing
20:04<juzza1>search for opengfx biggui if you are interested
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20:09<juzza1>Bad_Brett: there is a global variable animation_counter http://newgrf-specs.tt-wiki.net/wiki/NML:General#General_variables
20:10<Djohaal>yup, it makes buttons bigger, but the font still is abysmally tiny in some places
20:10<Bad_Brett>nice! thanks
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20:10<juzza1>but the value range might be a bit awkward to work with :D
20:10<Djohaal>inb4, is it possible to toggle bigGUI on different clients?
20:11<juzza1>Djohaal: http://wiki.openttd.org/FAQ_troubleshooting#My_User_Interface_is_too_small_to_read_.2F_My_font_is_unreadable_or_faulty
20:14<Djohaal>juzza1: thanks :D
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20:16<Bad_Brett>juzza1: can't i do something like this: mod(animation_counter,16)
20:17<Bad_Brett>should guarantee me a nice 0..15 range, right?
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20:21<juzza1>yes, thats a good idea
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20:28<@planetmaker>you guys should read the specs... the nml specs
20:29<Bad_Brett>um...
20:29<Bad_Brett>i just did :-P
20:30<@planetmaker>obviously not on value range of motion_counter
20:30<Bad_Brett>no, not motion_counter... animation_counter
20:30<@planetmaker>gah :D
20:30<Bad_Brett>animation_counter 0 .. 65535 Increased by 1 each tick
20:32<@planetmaker>animation_counter... where is that in the specs, I don't find it
20:32<Bad_Brett>http://newgrf-specs.tt-wiki.net/wiki/NML:General#General_variables
20:32<@planetmaker>global var
20:32<@planetmaker>hm :-)
20:33<Bad_Brett>yes
20:33<Bad_Brett>do you think it can be used?
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20:33<@planetmaker>seems so. Depends for what
20:33<@planetmaker>for vehicle motion: no
20:33<Bad_Brett>things like loading/unloading
20:33<@planetmaker>loading / unloading: possibly.
20:33<@planetmaker>worth a try
20:34<Bad_Brett>yeah, i'm gonna run some tests later :-)
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20:37<Bad_Brett>the modulo operator is %, right?
20:38<juzza1>yes
20:38<@planetmaker>possibly
20:38<@planetmaker>I'm still waiting for a push to the repo, though :D
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20:39<Bad_Brett>i've been working on that for three days straight now :-)
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20:40<Bad_Brett>the project has grown so large that it's gotten out of hand, so i'm rewriting a lot of the code so that pnml files will be generated as well (FIRS style)
20:41<@planetmaker>Bad_Brett: start the repo FIRST. then re-write
20:41<@planetmaker>that's where the use of the repo will come in handy. not afterwards. before and during
20:42<@planetmaker>a repo is not a 'release nice stuff' thing. It's a 'here I work' thing.
20:42<Bad_Brett>yeah i know, but i see no point in cloning 20000 files that will never be used ;-)
20:43<@planetmaker>... you generate the grf by some means *now*. And these means. they are what the repo should start with...
20:44<Bad_Brett>alright, alright :-)
20:44<@planetmaker>doesn't matter if you deprecate 95% of that in the first 100 commits
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20:45<Bad_Brett>also, i would like to remove all mysql connections from the code ;-)
20:47<Bad_Brett>but i'm gonna cloning the "new" folder i'm working in
20:48<Bad_Brett>se we can see if it works
20:48<Bad_Brett>*try cloning
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---Logclosed Tue Sep 10 00:00:13 2013