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#openttd IRC Logs for 2013-09-10

---Logopened Tue Sep 10 00:00:13 2013
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01:45<maddy_>morning guys
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04:04<dihedral>good morning
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08:26<oskari89>@seen ChillCore
08:26<@DorpsGek>oskari89: ChillCore was last seen in #openttd 29 weeks, 3 days, 12 hours, 45 minutes, and 29 seconds ago: <chillcore> good night planetmaker and everybody else.
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08:43<dihedral>is there a way to identify one game from another? for a bot?
08:44<dihedral>assuming a bot stores data in a mysql database, is there a possibility of differentiating between two games - potentially even 2 games loaded from an scn?
08:49<V453000>you could check for which savegame is loaded I suppose
08:49<V453000>or vehicle counts or similar things?
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08:51<dihedral>vehicle numbers can change constantly in an active game ;-)
08:51<V453000>of course but they generally only increase, new game = decrease to 0-ish
08:52<V453000>or simply check for game year?
08:56<@peter1138>Use a sign?
08:57<@peter1138>I dunno
08:57<dihedral>V453000, load from savegame, load scn, ...
08:57<dihedral>run a game on the same seed ...
08:58<dihedral>i could set an alias, which would only get reset if the server was restarted, not if a new game was started which does not help too much either
08:59<V453000>what do you want to achieve in the first place?
08:59<V453000>bot which informs people about new game? or?
09:00<dihedral>i want to be able to store statistics related to a single game and thus need to be able to differentiate between games, or recognize same games on multiple connects
09:01<V453000>well we set !gamenr between games, would depend on server I suppose
09:01<V453000>which then creates a new log with the appropriate number
09:02<V453000>then it is easy to grep some statistics from that log I suppose
09:07<dihedral>but that sets it in the bot, i was hoping to identify it :-P
09:08<dihedral>peter1138, are you sure you do not have a patch for that somewhere?
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09:17<DanMacK>Hey all
09:34<Bad_Brett>hey danmack
09:34<DanMacK>BBIAB :D
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09:35<Bad_Brett>...goodbye danmack :D
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10:50<@Rubidium>dihedral: date + random? ;)
10:50<@Rubidium>after all, you don't know whether it has branched into another game at a specific point
10:50<@Rubidium>e.g. loading an autosave after a power outage
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11:35<Djohaal>how do I make a "wait for full load or X days" order?
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11:57<Eddi|zuHause>Djohaal: "full load" always overrides the waiting time. you cannot make a vehicle leave early if it is full
11:57<Djohaal>that is bad :p
11:58<Djohaal>simutrans does max waiting time, works like a charm, and really helps with not having your chains clog up
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12:01<Pinkbeast>Also "leave if another vehicle arrives (insert criteria about same orders, same cargo etc)"
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12:02<DanMacK>Hey all
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12:36<Djohaal>ok wtf is going on with my ECS vectors. Sandpits are completely missing
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13:04<@Alberth>hi hi
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13:09<@Alberth>it seems you have made sufficient PR just by opening a topic :D
13:12<DanMacK>that was the plan
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13:25<Miauw>I have
13:26<Miauw>A station two squares away from an oil refinery.
13:26<Miauw>Yet the station doesn't accept oil?
13:26<Miauw>... right.
13:26<Miauw>For whatever reason it needs to be closer
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13:28<TinoDidriksen>The capture area needs to overlap specific areas of the industry, unless that's been fixed.
13:29<Pinkbeast>Miauw: Just add a tile of station and walk it across?
13:29<Miauw>I'm not playing the nightly build, so...
13:29<Pinkbeast>Walking stations is cheesy, but you didn't do it deliberately...
13:29<Miauw>I just moved the station a few tiles
13:30<+glx>only 2 tiles of the refinery accept oil IIRC
13:33<@Alberth>indeed, you need to build a station at the right end of the refinery
13:33<Miauw>Also, how is it that even when I have one train in a station next to a producer all the time, the % transported still isn't 100?
13:33<Miauw>Also, I managed to build it at the wrong end by squeezing it against it
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13:40<Miauw>I shouldn't mess with the city size modifier ;_;
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13:41<Pinkbeast>Miauw: % transported depends on station rating not physical presence of trains to put it in (except inasmuch as the latter informs rating)
13:42<Miauw>Oh, I see.
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13:44<Pinkbeast>In practice for an ordinary producer having one vehicle waiting at all times is the best approach.
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14:45<andythenorth>could a grf assign sets of vehicles per-company in MP?
14:47*Alberth is flabbergasted about the question
14:47<V453000>I think sprites can change based on company
14:47<V453000>but the feature sounds wtf
14:47<Supercheese>might have to abuse unexposed variables or something
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14:47<andythenorth>why is it wtf?
14:48<andythenorth>in original warcraft, one player has orcs and the other humans
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14:49<V453000>in openttd people kinda often play in 1 company too :D
14:49<V453000>vs no orcs :)
14:49<andythenorth>V453000: that's why I suggested company not player
14:49<andythenorth>player would be....difficult :x
14:49<Supercheese>I'm not sure which variables in can be (ab)used or not by grfs
14:49<frosch123>sounds more like a gs task
14:50<V453000>yes but if you have One company in the whole game, newGRF is used only partially?
14:50<V453000>sounds bad
14:50<andythenorth>you only get a subset of the grf anyway
14:50<andythenorth>by design
14:51<V453000>I would consider that broken
14:51<V453000>what if I play single player but want to use vehicles from company 3?
14:51<andythenorth>that's not the design
14:51<V453000>that is waste of time on sprites imo
14:52<andythenorth>it's the same as Pikka with 10CC, only it's 20CC :P
14:52<V453000>better randomize them to make it look nice
14:52<andythenorth>most sets have way too much stuff
14:52<V453000>most sets are dumb, too
14:52<andythenorth>the default solution is just to lock each set of vehicles to a climate
14:52<V453000>I wouldnt expect you to make one of the most
14:52<andythenorth>climate decides vehicles, no parameters, end of discussion? :P
14:52<andythenorth>just wondered about more interesting options
14:53<V453000>I prefer having all vehicles everywhere, least confusing
14:54<V453000>but other than that it is probably the most sensible way to make such "separation"
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16:51<imachine>is it possible to have openttd server automatically restart at certain date?
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16:51<imachine>like, the game lasts say untill year 3000 then resets back.
16:52<V453000>there is some setting for that
16:53<imachine>ok, I think I got it.
16:54<@Terkhen>good night
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17:02<Djohaal>were fences removed in the latest openGFR?
17:02<Djohaal>(railroad fences that is)
17:03<andythenorth>did you turn off fences?
17:03<andythenorth>it's an option somewhere
17:03<Chrill>that often does the trick, andythenorth ;)
17:03<andythenorth>'full detail' ?
17:03<Pinkbeast>Djohaal: _just_ got openGFX?
17:03<Djohaal>I updated it today
17:03<Djohaal>and then suddenly, no more fences
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17:08<Djohaal>Pinkbeast: this is how they look atm, I reckon they didn't look that "cartoony" before
17:09<Supercheese>Looks like you have OGFX+ Landscape
17:09<Supercheese>check its parameters to see if it has disabled fences
17:10<Djohaal>oh yes I had that
17:10<Djohaal>show gridlines: off
17:10<Djohaal>provide groundsprites: on
17:10<Djohaal>provide field sprites: on
17:11<Djohaal>landscape: normal
17:11<Djohaal>that is about it (sorry for the spam, herp)
17:11<Supercheese>no fences? hmm
17:11<Supercheese>or fence parameter rather
17:12<Djohaal>weird :S
17:12<Supercheese>I seem to be misremembering
17:12<Djohaal>could it be the industrial renewal pack? :S
17:13<Djohaal>industrial stations*
17:13<Supercheese>any other grfs activated?
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17:13<Supercheese>any one of them could be disabing fences, potentially
17:13<Djohaal>a whole bunch of them, but the bizarre thing is that other users report their rails are fine in the server
17:13<Supercheese>oh, well then maybe it's that detail option stuff
17:14<Supercheese>"full detail", although you may have already checked that
17:14<Djohaal>wherei s that
17:14<Supercheese>options menu, the spanner/wrench icon
17:15<Djohaal>I.. I didn't even realize it had that option
17:15<Djohaal>silly fat fingers, must have clicked it by accident
17:15<Supercheese>was it by chance unchecked?
17:15<Djohaal>thnaks :D
17:15<Supercheese>righto, problem solved
17:16<Djohaal>I discover a new thing about OTTD every day
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17:21<Djohaal>also somebody mentioned there's a "leave the station if another train arrives" option for orders. is that a timetable or orders thing?
17:22<Chrill>sounds like an option from RCT
17:22<Chrill>afaik, its not in "vanilla" ottd
17:22<Pinkbeast>Djohaal: I'm afraid I mentioned that in a wishlisty way. It was in the MiniIN many years ago? One patchpack, anyway.
17:22<Djohaal>because I have problems with waiting trains piling up on stations, and trying to figure out the best solution
17:23<Pinkbeast>Djohaal: Where do the loads come from? Primary industries?
17:23<Pinkbeast>The kind that gob up a big load every time a delivery comes in?
17:24<Djohaal>a chemical plant?
17:25<Pinkbeast>Djohaal: No idea; I just mean, is it the sort of implementation where the secondary gets an input delivery and spits out output almost instantly, in a big clump?
17:25<Djohaal>more like a very slow input because I'm running those slowass trains from 1800's :p
17:26<Pinkbeast>I tend to resort to more loading platforms
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17:26<Djohaal>well that's the solution I was seeking to avoid :p
17:27<Djohaal>also is there some setting to enforce that all cars/trains/trucks/ships/llamas have auto-refit as default?
17:27<Pinkbeast>Yes, in the options
17:27<Djohaal>non auto refitting stuff is such a hassle, and cargodist is all about running cross connections
17:27<Supercheese>Autorefit must be enabled in the grf
17:27<Supercheese>you can't change autorefit-ability without changing the grf
17:28<Pinkbeast>Oh, wait, autorefit not autorenew, don't listen to me.
17:28<Djohaal>oh pity
17:28<Djohaal>no override
17:28<Pinkbeast>The trouble with using autorefit, I find, is there is no sensible way to give a "load at A, unload B, load at C, unload at D" order that full loads at whichever of A or C produces more goods
17:29<Djohaal>I was happy because the standard carriage from the british rail expansion auto refits, so I had it switching from oil to oil products and hauling the products back
17:29<Djohaal>then the six-wheel oil tank from it doesn't auto refit :p
17:29<Pinkbeast>... and to anticipate the obvious reply, if the A/C production fluctuates, I mean.
17:29<Pinkbeast>Djohaal: Is that UKRS or UKRS2 or BROS or... ?
17:30<Djohaal>BROS.. gotta love these acronyms :p
17:30<Eddi|zuHause>andythenorth: how about "My little unicorn"? :p
17:30<Pinkbeast>I tend to use 2cc with UKRS2 to patch over holes like the lack of a livestock wagon after 194something
17:31<Djohaal>nah we have vehicles never expiring
17:31<andythenorth>Eddi|zuHause: ho ho :)
17:31<Djohaal>just for the quaint ability of running those explosive horse carriages in the 2040's
17:31<Eddi|zuHause><andythenorth> could a grf assign sets of vehicles per-company in MP? <-- we discussed that already with pikka's idea. the game has all the infrastructure but no way to access it
17:31<Pinkbeast>Djohaal: Yeah, but those 45mph pre-war livestock vans aren't a good fit with 90mph goods
17:31<andythenorth>Eddi|zuHause: this is basically pikka's idea, reduxed
17:32<andythenorth>I can't remember the outcome though :)
17:32<Pinkbeast>UKRS1 put livestock into tanks as "pretend it's milk" :-)
17:32<Djohaal>Pinkbeast: thanks for the heads-up i'll keep that in note for next patch
17:32<Djohaal>livestock... thanks
17:32<Eddi|zuHause>the outcome is "nobody bothered"
17:33<Djohaal>liquid livestock tanks. Well you could haul chicken eggs
17:33<Djohaal>that ls liquid chicken no? :p
17:33<Pinkbeast>Djohaal: Well, this only works in MP if people either want to play with 2cc+UKRS2 or respect a convention that you don't use 2cc vehicles unless unavoidable
17:33<Djohaal>unbalanced much?
17:34<Pinkbeast>Djohaal: Not so much that as "if you wanted to play with UKRS2 and just patch over a few holes, people have to do that".
17:34<Eddi|zuHause>andythenorth: the game currently only uses the values "no company", "one company" and "all companies", but theoretically any bitmask could be set
17:35<Eddi|zuHause>it is already a bitmask, but there is no way to set/unset individual bits
17:35<andythenorth>do we think it's wise?
17:35<Pinkbeast>With a more comprehensive UK set (ho ho) a four way GWR/LNER/LMS/SR game could be quite jolly
17:35<andythenorth>or is it a cluster f*ck waiting to happen? :)
17:35<andythenorth>Pinkbeast: what is a 'more comprehensive UK set'? o_O
17:36<Djohaal>hmm a more technical aspect of the routing system.. do stations have a built in path signal for train release purposes?
17:36<Eddi|zuHause>i can't say anything about "wise", the main problem is "how to provide the choice to the player"
17:36<andythenorth>see, I anticipated the server owner setting the rule, but I kind of hate that
17:36<Eddi|zuHause>Djohaal: no, but when a train turns around, he waits for a free path
17:36<andythenorth>I'd rather it was a selection for the company
17:36<andythenorth>by the players in the company
17:37<Eddi|zuHause>Djohaal: so effectively for dead-end stations you don't need signals
17:37<Eddi|zuHause>but for through-stations you do, otherwise a train waiting in the station blocks the exit
17:37<Pinkbeast>andythenorth: Well, one where in any given year pre-unification any of the Big Four would have a meaningful choice of rolling stock to make
17:38<Pinkbeast>... I'm not sure OTTD really represents choices at that level
17:38<Eddi|zuHause>Pinkbeast: you mean CETS just for UK :)
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17:39<andythenorth>it's kind of the inverse of my current goal :)
17:39<Pinkbeast>Eddi|zuHause: Or the sort of level of comprehensiveness BROS aims for, yes.
17:39<Eddi|zuHause>the eternal-british-based-set-formerly-known-as-bros-but-now-using-the-CETS-mechanism might do that
17:40<Pinkbeast>andythenorth: I don't personally think the new-Pikka "minimal set" is at all compatible with "distributed to companies"
17:40<Supercheese>I thought that was Pikka's design intention...?
17:40<Eddi|zuHause>Pinkbeast: well pikka's idea was that each company gets a different "minimal set"
17:41<Eddi|zuHause>with each having slightly different focus
17:41<Pinkbeast>I sit corrected
17:41<Eddi|zuHause>(max speed, stronger, cheaper, ...)
17:42<andythenorth>a direction I applaud :)
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18:04<Wolf01>'night all
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18:13<DanMacK>Hey all
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19:44<Djohaal>this textile mill is bork
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20:04<Djohaal>say I build a station that overlaps both a producer and a consumer
20:04<Djohaal>do wares get auto transfered?
20:04<DanMacK> no
20:04<Supercheese>I don't believe so
20:05<DanMacK>It's a pain in the ass for sure, but no
20:05<DanMacK>Look at it this way... even real close industries need a transport system lol
20:06<Djohaal>I think there might be a way of exploiting that
20:07<DanMacK>It's called an industry distance patch :P
20:08<DanMacK>What are the industries?
20:09<Supercheese>If the industries are really close, HEQS has some specialized vehicles that may fit that niche
20:09<Supercheese>like the foundry transporter for steel
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---Logclosed Wed Sep 11 00:00:14 2013