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#openttd IRC Logs for 2013-09-11

---Logopened Wed Sep 11 00:00:14 2013
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02:53<dihedral>good morning
03:02<maddy_>morning
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05:14<Ben_>Could someone suggest a starting point for patching server side only?
05:16<Xaroth|Work>int main()
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05:30<LordAro>/o
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05:40<Malinux->production at primary industries has dropped from almost highest to lowest levels on global scale. Why does it happen?
05:43<@peter1138>Recession
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05:48<maddy_>I hate recession :( both in real life and in games
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05:50<Malinux->peter1138: so recession just happens once in a 400 years or so? I guess it change :)
06:04<V453000>I dont think it is nearly 400
06:05<V453000>something like each 10-20 would be more likely
06:18<Malinux->okey, but it has been high for hundreds of years actually
06:20<V453000>you are playing the game for hundreds of years?
06:21<V453000>and you are sure that it never dropped down for ~half a year? or how long those recessions take
06:21<Malinux->I have played this game for hundreds of years. And yes, some industries has dropped a little
06:22<Malinux->but many had productions of 1000 or more
06:22<Malinux->and some of over 2000 pr month
06:22<Malinux->now they barely have over 400 hundred. mostly under 100
06:22<Malinux->the thing is. There have never been like this
06:22<V453000>idk how long a recession takes
06:23<V453000>you didnt stop servicing them, right?
06:23<Malinux->hm, I think: smooth econmy is uncheced as I tried to figure out something else. I can see the default value is on,
06:23<Malinux->nope. Didn't stop servicing them
06:24<V453000>idk what the opposite of smooth economy does anymore
06:24<V453000>we always use smooth economy without recessions
06:25<Malinux->yeah. That might explain, does it?
06:25<Malinux->trie to check it on and see what's happens
06:25<Eddi|zuHause>smooth economy gets automatically disabled for newgrf industries that use the production callback (pretty much all of them)
06:25<V453000>:o
06:26<Malinux->I don't think I have added any newgr-industries as I have to start with a new game to use it (at least what I feel, or it will be a lot of chages to deal with)
06:26<Malinux->anyhow. I look on newgrfs as a way to get new technology I can use :)
06:33<Malinux->an interesting newgrf, if possible, would be one with planned economy :)
06:48<V453000>how would that work
06:58<Eddi|zuHause>i think you and i both know that planned economy doesn't work :p
06:58<V453000>mhm but what does he actually mean by that :D
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07:17<maddy_>please, no planned economy in openttd
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07:56<fonsinchen>Well, the economy _is_ centrally planned in OpenTTD, just not in a sane way.
07:57<fonsinchen>After all the game logic takes all decisions.
07:57<fonsinchen>You can influence it a bit by providing transport opportunities, but the result is still rather chaotic.
08:01<dihedral>lo fonsi :-P
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08:16<@peter1138>ik/win 39
08:16<@peter1138>Hmm
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08:18<Xaroth|Work>fail
08:18<DanMacK>Hey all
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08:46<Malinux->V453000: I am a she ;)
08:47<V453000>that only underlines the wondering what do you mean by that
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08:51<Malinux->this is what I mean by planned economy http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Planned_economy
08:52<DanMacK>Socialism in OTTD? lol
08:52<Malinux->mhm :)
08:52<Malinux->I don't say it should be the defualt game
08:52<Malinux->but as a newgrf or so
08:52<V453000>which is cute but how should it translate to the game
08:52<DanMacK>Biggest question is how to implement?
08:53<V453000>like, what would actually change
08:53<V453000>all production -80%? :D
08:53<DanMacK>Single player effectively is a "Socialist Government" :P
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08:53<Malinux->V453000: I don'αΊ— know how it should translate to the game :)
08:54<V453000>wtf idea then :)
08:54<Malinux->wtf?
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08:55<Malinux->I have never played multiplayer, but I can see how it is difficult to implement in multiplayer :)
08:55<DanMacK>What the F***
08:55<V453000>I dont see the relation to neither :s
08:55<Malinux->oki :)
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08:55<fonsinchen>NewGRFs can take total control over production values and opening/closing of industries, can't they?
08:55<DanMacK>There's no way it could really be used in MP
08:55<V453000>I suppose they can
08:56<fonsinchen>So just come up with some clear and understandable rules for those things and implement them in a newgrf
08:56<DanMacK>unless you had an overriding "Government" grf
08:56<V453000>havent coded industries (YET!)
08:56<fonsinchen>=> planned economy
08:56<V453000>"come up" is generally the problem :P
08:56<V453000>realistic people want to copy values not come up with things :D
08:56<fonsinchen>Well, the easiest rule is "nothing ever changes"
08:56<fonsinchen>start from that
08:56<V453000>:>
08:57<Malinux->:)
08:57<V453000>or "everything goes to shit over time" ? :D
08:57<fonsinchen>That doesn't meet the goal of being clear and understandable
08:57<V453000>pff
08:57<__ln__>planned economy could involve zero inflation
08:58<fonsinchen>Inflation is not much of a problem as it's predictable
08:58<Malinux->__ln__: good point
08:58<V453000>asdf
08:59*V453000 goes back to his hole
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09:34<Pikka>whatwhatwhatwhatwhat
09:35<DanMacK>Well holy crap lol
09:36<V453000>nuffin, just trains https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/20419525/RAINBOWSLUGS1.png
09:38<@peter1138>nuffing, http://www.justtrains.co.uk/
09:38<@peter1138>-g
09:39<@peter1138>V453000, not good enough, I see non-rail tiles...
09:39<V453000>duh :) wasnt quite about the railway, more like about the animals :P
09:39<dihedral>when i see screenshots i notice how long it's been since i last played or even saw the gui :-P
09:40<@peter1138>Not much GUI in that shot.
09:41<V453000>myeah I usually cut that away
09:57<V453000>dihedral: here is your gui https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/20419525/pzg22orders.png
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10:49<Miauw>Uh.
10:49<Miauw>I'm making new stations for trams.
10:49<Miauw>And my busses are stopping there without sepcific orders
10:49<Miauw>Nevermiinnnddd
10:51<Pinkbeast>Miauw: That's "go to station" vs "go non-stop to station"
10:51<Miauw>Oh, I see...
10:51<Pinkbeast>There's an option... somewhere to give non-stop orders by default.
10:52<Pinkbeast>And in a cargodist world, you want always to use non-stop
10:52<Miauw>I'm not using nightlies, so I don't have to do that.
10:52<Miauw>It's still really usefull to stop my busses from clogging up the stations, tough.
10:54<juzza1>well, do you rely on your vehicles stopping on stations without giving them explicit orders to do so? if not, then i don't see a reason not to enable that setting
10:56<Pinkbeast>Quite. If you don't ever use the stopping behaviour, turn on "non-stop by default" and forget about it
10:57<Miauw>Alright.
10:57<Miauw>Also, heh. I found a village named liverpool.
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11:03<retro|cz>Miauw, is there footbal staduim?
11:03<Miauw>Yes.
11:04<Miauw>There's also a village called Presstable on this map, tough.
11:04<retro|cz>that's Anfield Road
11:05<retro|cz>Miauw, maybe if there are two stadiums, second is named Goodison Park.
11:05<Miauw>Nope, no two stadiums :c
11:05<Miauw>I think I'll plop down a bus station to help it grow
11:07<Pinkbeast>Don't blame us when the wheels get nicked off the busses
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13:22<dihedral>greetings
13:22<Miauw>Hmpf, AdmiralAI is rather difficult/nice whatever.
13:22<Miauw>It has basically connected every coal mine with a power station.
13:23<Miauw>So now it's starting to connect forests with sawmills.
13:23<frosch123>fetch the goods yourself!
13:23<Miauw>Yeah, I'm doing that.
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13:23<Miauw>Removing the road in front of it's depot works too, tough :P
13:24<frosch123>yeah, humans are bad at loosing :p
13:25<Miauw>I had cut off one of it's routes that way, but I wanted to use it myself later...
13:25<Miauw>At least it's not doing much passenger transport
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13:45<@DorpsGek>Commit by translators :: r25758 trunk/src/lang/catalan.txt (2013-09-11 17:45:10 UTC)
13:45<@DorpsGek>-Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
13:45<@DorpsGek>catalan - 2 changes by juanjo
13:49<Sacro>\o/
13:50<@peter1138>Hmm, I think I need a supercomputer, for FSX.
13:53<@planetmaker>good evening
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13:54<Wolf01>hello o/
13:55<@Alberth>hi hi
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14:00<LordAro>/o Zuu
14:00<Zuu>Helloa
14:00<Wolf01>hi Zuu
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14:54<GhostTrain>i need help
14:55<LordAro>@topic get -3
14:55<@DorpsGek>LordAro: English only
14:55<LordAro>wait, crap
14:55<LordAro>@topic get -1
14:55<@DorpsGek>LordAro: #openttd.notice for commit notices
14:55<LordAro>gah
14:56<LordAro>"Don't ask to ask, just ask"
14:56<LordAro>ah, no '-' sign
14:57<GhostTrain>whe my trains go into depots to service they just stop as in they turn red
14:57<frosch123>- works as well, you just have to count more fingers
14:58<frosch123>you probably ordered them to go to depot for stop
14:58<GhostTrain>i didnt
14:58<frosch123>there are many ways to do that
14:58<frosch123>via the depot icon in the vehicle gui
14:59<frosch123>via the dropdown in the vehicle list
14:59<frosch123>or even via vehicle orders
15:00<@Alberth>so how did they end up in the depot? what did you do?
15:01<GhostTrain>one of my stations has force service
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15:01<GhostTrain>but when a trian goes in the depot i have to click the train to start it again
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15:03<@Alberth>does it say "(stop)" at the end of the order?
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15:03<GhostTrain>no
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15:04<@Alberth>hmm, weird
15:06<LordAro>in these situations, it usually calls for a savegame to look at
15:06<GhostTrain>the only thing i could think is causing it is im using the hard pack
15:06<LordAro>...
15:06<GhostTrain>what
15:07<LordAro>that is the first thing you should mention
15:07<GhostTrain>oh
15:07<LordAro>patched builds are totally unsupported
15:07<LordAro>go and report the problem in the patch forum thread
15:07<GhostTrain>but it even happened before
15:07<LordAro>or reproducce the problem in a normal (tm) game
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15:11<LordAro>or not :L
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15:38<DanMacK>hey hey
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16:29<Djohaal>is it possible to make public/shared stations?
16:30<Djohaal>like so player A can transfer goods into it and player B haul them for the other leg?
16:30<@planetmaker>Yes. Very limited
16:30<@planetmaker>The stations of oil rigs are public. Other ways: no. Not without modifying source code
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16:31<@planetmaker>Mind that the oil rig sharing will make sure that only one company gets the money (I forgot which)
16:31<Djohaal>boo :(
16:33<V453000>I would assume the delivering company
16:34<V453000>if you -drop-not-transfer- cargo at a station, only the delivering train gets money
16:34<V453000>I suppose it could be similar?
16:35<@planetmaker>dunno. I once tried it in a game with tru3bra1n. Was quite fun :D
16:39<@Rubidium>the delivering company gets the money, the only caveat is that the transfer credit "profit" is added to the vehicles of the company that drops and subtracted from the one that finally delivers it
16:39<@Rubidium>but then the sum of virtual profits of vehicles <> real profits of vehicles
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17:29<Wolf01>'night
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20:28<Djohaal>ok is there some way of telling OTTD to store the size I want for a window?
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20:34<+glx>maybe something with ctrl
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---Logclosed Thu Sep 12 00:00:16 2013