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#openttd IRC Logs for 2013-09-15

---Logopened Sun Sep 15 00:00:22 2013
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01:12<Supercheese>I'm not qualified to answer that
01:13<Djohaal>hmm I'm getting some weirdness with cargodist
01:14<Djohaal>supposed I have a coal mine A, which is linked to power plant B and steel mill C
01:14<Djohaal>but the line from A-C is shorter than A-B
01:14<Djohaal>all my coal wants to go to A-C
01:15<Supercheese>cargodist does really weird things at times, I don't use it
01:19<Djohaal>hmm fixed
01:19<Djohaal>just had to force a train to do the loop empty
01:19<Djohaal>seems similar to some bugs in simutrans lol
01:21<Supercheese>I tried simutrans once, I couldn't really figure out how to do anything :S
01:21<Supercheese>I guess I'm too used to TTD playstyle
01:23<Djohaal>simutrans is very ahrd
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01:42<Supercheese>Oh, the semi-auto separation is in trunk
01:42<Supercheese>Not quite the fully automatic versions like in various patches, but I don't really use timetables...
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04:06<@Rubidium>hi andythenorth
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04:09<@Rubidium>I reckon I can better go... everyone I kinda reply to today leaves pretty soon after replying
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04:32<@peter1138>So is there a built in way to restore company passwords yet?
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04:37<@planetmaker>not even store ;-)
04:37<@planetmaker>and admins can move anyone anywhere irrespective of PWs
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04:50<@peter1138>Not sure how the last factor is particularly relevant.
04:51<@planetmaker>it's relevant in a way that they make sure that not Igor recovers the company-PW from Armin.
04:52<@planetmaker>just by giving himself the "appropriate" nick
04:53<@peter1138>Igor? Armin? I don't know what you're talking about :S
04:54<@planetmaker>just two random nick names to make the poin
05:03<@peter1138>Yeah, but what point?
05:06<@planetmaker>point is: you need a way to actually identify a person. Know that it is the person who "lost" the company password
05:06<@planetmaker>otherwise I could go join your server and recover your company password
05:07<@peter1138>You're talking about something else. I'm talking about keep passwords intact when you load a game.
05:07<@planetmaker>:-) you said recover :-)
05:07<@peter1138>No, I said restore.
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05:08<@planetmaker>indeed you did.
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05:17*andythenorth made a tender loco
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05:28<V453000>pictures or it didnt happen
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05:41<@planetmaker>moin Alberth
05:41<@Alberth>hi hi
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05:54<@planetmaker>Alberth, surely the strings have *some* sorting; couldn't eints have a (local) index file which allows to change sorting, thus move a string to the end of the "list"?
06:02<@Alberth>there is no well-defined order currently, I use Python dictionaries, which are explicitly defined as not having any order you can rely on
06:03<@Alberth>but of course we could make an order internal to the server process or so
06:03<@Alberth>like Rb suggested yesterday already
06:04<@planetmaker>yes, just there. Like a button which pushes it internally to the back. I presume it would solve 99% of what people complain about in this respect
06:04<@planetmaker>if not 100%
06:04<@planetmaker>ah... I didn't read back 100% of yesterday. You all were very productive. Too much to read :-)
06:05<@Alberth>currently I pick a string at random when you click "start fixing" in a project
06:07<@Alberth>not sure how that compares with your suggestion
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06:34<@planetmaker>retro|cz, around?
06:34<retro|cz>planetmaker, yup hello
06:34<@planetmaker>you sent an e-mail about e-mail address update with your account, right?
06:34<retro|cz>planetmaker, yes
06:34<@planetmaker>what's your account name?
06:34<retro|cz>I guess retro.
06:35<retro|cz>Yup, it is. Realname is Retro and nick retro.
06:36<@planetmaker>ok, let's see that I find it :-)
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06:39<retro|cz>And I have secret for you. My name is not Retro. :/
06:40<retro|cz>So I'm liar and I deserve some punishment.
06:40<@planetmaker>but I guess you don't care to "correct" that with your account settings?
06:41<retro|cz>I just want to get emails in my new mail.
06:41<retro|cz>But I can achieve that by email redirect.
06:41<retro|cz>It will be nicer to get some edit profile page. Since I'm interested in this and I have some basic web local setup now, I can try to do that.
06:42<retro|cz>better to invest some time to review this tiny patch -
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06:49<Zuu>Alberth: Wouldn't it make more sense to follow the order as the strings are defined by the NewGRF/script in its english file?
06:49<Zuu>Usually I place strings that are connected next to each other.
06:49<@Alberth>sure, but I don't keep track of history AT ALL
06:50<@Alberth>ie I don't know what I gave you previously
06:50<@Alberth>heck, I don't even know if there is more than one translator busy
06:51<Zuu>The extreme case is the tutorial where strings follow the order as they are displayed. Though in that case all STR_* constants are numbered.
06:52<Zuu>But I see that if you don't keep any history or have the client send their previous string as a GET flag, then it is hard :-)
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06:59<andythenorth>dual_headed is nuts
07:00<@Alberth>finding new nutty newgrf areas? :)
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07:04<andythenorth>I set one flag, and 'boom', multiple unit
07:04<andythenorth>no cbs, no switches, no new sprite templates :O
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07:05<@Alberth>bummer, too easy!
07:08<andythenorth>if I want red lights on the back, I have to do my own work :P
07:11<andythenorth>I stand corrected. I have to handle the rear part explicitly
07:12<andythenorth>or it comes out reversed :P
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07:57<andythenorth>V453000: how do you reverse the sprites for last vehicle on a dual_headed train?
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07:57<andythenorth>with a switch checking for last in consist?
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08:08<frosch123>andythenorth: it is reversed by ottd
08:08<andythenorth>not :(
08:08<frosch123>you will have a hard time to make it not-reversed
08:09<andythenorth>just the buy menu is broken :P
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08:09<andythenorth>special handling for buy menu needed?
08:10<frosch123>well, rather non-special :p
08:10<frosch123>specify 8 sprites, and make 7 of them empty
08:10<frosch123>instead of 1 sprite
08:10<frosch123>or specify 8 sprites, and make 6 of them empty to make ottd draw 2 of them
08:11<frosch123>but usually if you have specical purchae sprites, you only draw one sprite, and not two which are combined
08:11<andythenorth>so the issue is how to reverse the second head of a dual_headed unit in buy menu...
08:12<andythenorth>for articulated vehicles I would draw a composite sprite
08:12<andythenorth>but that won't work here
08:13<juzza1>so you are not drawing separate sprites for purchase menu?
08:14<andythenorth>I can
08:14<juzza1>"provide a set of 8 blank sprites except the 7th if you want to fully control a single purchase menu sprite for a dual-headed engine. ) "
08:14<andythenorth>and then what?
08:14<andythenorth>check consist position?
08:14<andythenorth>and show empty graphics for rear part?
08:14<@planetmaker>purchase view has no consist info
08:14<andythenorth>interesting :)
08:15<andythenorth>I thought that might be the next problem..
08:15<@planetmaker>no vehicle is built there
08:15<@planetmaker>just provide one sprite to show what it shall look like
08:16*andythenorth was not reading correct part of docs :P
08:34<George>planetmaker: please have a look at the question in the devzone channel
08:35<retro|cz>Any chance to get some company detail info in server console? For example some finance details?
08:36<@planetmaker>beyond "<planetmaker> !rcon companies
08:36<@planetmaker><PublicServer> planetmaker: #:1(Orange) Company Name: 'Fort Rutfield Transport' Year Founded: 2100 Money: 3553270495 Loan: 0 Value: 3556523434 (T:740, R:2, P:0, S:5) unprotected" is unlikely
08:36<@planetmaker>maybe an admin script might
08:36<retro|cz>yup, I know this planetmaker
08:36<@planetmaker>George, I read that yes.
08:36<retro|cz>I want to get more details. Like train incomes for last year for example.
08:37<@planetmaker>did you check what admin port can access?
08:37<@planetmaker>did you check soap and joan's capabilities? :-)
08:38<retro|cz>I'm writting tiny wrapper around game server console. So I just wonder if I can achieve that. I try to find what admin port can provides.
08:39<@planetmaker>wrapper around game console? Use admin port
08:40<@planetmaker>wrapper around game console is... meh. Fragile and bound to break by localization
08:41<@planetmaker>and without notice
08:41<@planetmaker>look at ap+ for a wrapper... it works. somewhat
08:41<retro|cz>planetmaker, why? I have localization in my cfg file. So it is english.
08:41<retro|cz>I have basic echo wrapper ->
08:41<retro|cz>in few lines
08:42<retro|cz>But I'll try admin port. Going to read protocol.
08:42<@planetmaker>there are ready-to-use libraries and clients... told you
08:43<retro|cz>Is any list somewhere?
08:44<@planetmaker>soap and joan are implementations for it
08:45<retro|cz>ahh, I see
08:45<retro|cz>openttdcoop projects
08:46<@planetmaker>no. we just host them
08:46<@planetmaker>neither author is directly affiliated with coop
08:46<@planetmaker>though I consider both friends of coop ;-)
08:47<retro|cz>I just found libottdadmin2.
08:47<@planetmaker>devzone is open to the general public to host their 3rd-party projects. If they feature an OSI-approved license
08:48<retro|cz>I usually use github for that kind of projects.
08:48<retro|cz>Is there any C, C++ or Ruby similar library?
08:49<@Alberth>github has the problem that it might drop off the internet at any time
08:49<andythenorth>so might devzone :P
08:49<retro|cz>Alberth, that's why git is used. It is decentralized.
08:49<@planetmaker>how is that an argument pro github? ;-)
08:49<retro|cz>same arguments stands for openttdcoop hosting
08:50<@planetmaker>that's an argument pro dvcs
08:50<andythenorth>it's kind of 'meh' where the repo is hosted
08:50<andythenorth>much of the other devzone stuff would be had on github
08:51<retro|cz>yup, I saw
08:51<andythenorth>hard *
08:51<retro|cz>of example libottdadmin2
08:53<@planetmaker> <-- that's what libottdadmin2 does
08:53<@planetmaker>hm, no. openttdlib :D
08:53<@planetmaker>all so similar :D
08:54<retro|cz>joan stands for reference admin interface, going to read it
08:55<retro|cz>thanks all for pointing me to right direction
08:56<TWerkhoven>just fyi, libottdadmin comes with a console app as well
08:57<TWerkhoven>loa2 that is
08:59<retro|cz>hmm, still in python
08:59<retro|cz>I want to do it in Ruby. So C or C++ should be cool for me, since I can write only bindings.
08:59<retro|cz>but this loa1 looks really small
09:00<TWerkhoven>yeah, the author decided to go for a complete rewrite, which is loa2
09:05<retro|cz>Does the loa1 still works with current protocol?
09:06<TWerkhoven>yes, protocol has not changed since it was implemented
09:06<retro|cz>TWerkhoven, thanks
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09:13<retro|cz>There is also some kind of HTTP API?
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09:13-!-planetmaker is "Ingo von Borstel" on #openttd @#openttdcoop.stable #openttdcoop.devzone #oftc +#openDune @+#openttdcoop @+#openttdcoop.nightly @+#coopetition @+#wwottdgd
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09:15<@planetmaker>LordAro, is surprised?
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09:16<LordAro>your bouncer briefly broke
09:16<@planetmaker>not really
09:16<TWerkhoven>retro|cz: dont think there is one using the adminport
09:17<TWerkhoven>might be wrong
09:17<retro|cz>TWerkhoven, just saw this;a=blob_plain;f=src/network/core/tcp_http.h;hb=HEAD
09:17<@planetmaker>my attention to what is the active window on my desktop briefly broke ;-)
09:18<retro|cz>This is only documentation for admin port ?
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09:29<Xaroth|Work>retro|cz: and you can look at admin port libraries
09:29<Xaroth|Work>like libottdadmin2, joan and a few other
09:29<retro|cz>yup, I'm reading them
09:29<retro|cz>But easier for me will be to enable wireshark, enable local server and see network traffic.
09:30<Xaroth|Work>I doubt reading network traffic is easier than reading code that communicates said network traffic
09:31<retro|cz>If you will be nice, I'll try to do docs like this ->
09:31<retro|cz>that's exactly what I need
09:31<retro|cz>I can't find packet format.
09:32<retro|cz>something is here
09:32<Xaroth|Work>retro|cz: check out libottdadmin2, check the packet classes
09:32<Xaroth|Work>read up on python's struct module
09:33<Xaroth|Work>that should come relatively close to that wiki doc
09:35<retro|cz>Will I see some info in console when I'll join it via admin port?
09:35<retro|cz>in server console
09:36<retro|cz>Xaroth, thanks
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09:58<TWerkhoven>why would openttd not be able to load a savegame it saved itself moments earlier?
09:58<TWerkhoven>File not readable
10:00<frosch123>no read permission?
10:00<TWerkhoven>read permission for all
10:00<TWerkhoven>write only for user
10:01<TWerkhoven>im using the command line parameter -g, with the full path to the save
10:01<TWerkhoven>no spaces in the path
10:03<TWerkhoven>when using rcon to cd to the dir, then read the save yields no errors
10:10<LordAro>that sounds like a bug, in that case
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10:12<TWerkhoven>hmm, should i include the .sav extension when using -g?
10:12<LordAro>/o Wolf01
10:13<LordAro>TWerkhoven: ...i'd have thought so
10:13*TWerkhoven checks
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10:22<retro|cz>Cool, I can connect and disconnect now!
10:23<retro|cz>Should I document it into similar table source server query protocol does?
10:23<retro|cz>Will it be useful?
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10:29<@planetmaker>retro|cz, if you think it's worth documenting and helpful: then it very likely is. So yes, please! :-)
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10:43<frosch123>python docs drive me insane
10:51<retro|cz>frosch123, I'm not python user.
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11:09<Xaroth|Work>frosch123: it's not -that- bad?
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11:17<retro|cz>Xaroth, size is in first two bytes?
11:17<retro|cz>including those first two bytes?
11:22<Xaroth|Work>retro|cz: check line 106 in packets.base
11:23<retro|cz>I mean received packets Xaroth.
11:23<Xaroth|Work>the packet format is identical between sent and received
11:23<retro|cz>ok, thanks
11:24<roboboy>gnight peoples
11:24<retro|cz>roboboy, good nightly
11:24<Xaroth|Work>nn robo
11:25<@planetmaker>g'night roboboy
11:25<roboboy>well technically it is morning but we still say gnight when we go to bed in the early hours of the morning
11:25<Xaroth|Work>retro|cz: the format is as follows: "<packetLen><packetID><data>"
11:26<Xaroth|Work>so you read the length; then read the rest of the packet
11:26<Xaroth|Work>then you check the packetID, to then decode the data
11:26<retro|cz>Xaroth, yup, I'm doing it. Seperated with \0.
11:26<retro|cz>But it is written here
11:26<retro|cz>A packet should contain it's size on the first two bytes (LE).
11:27<Xaroth|Work>yeh, look closely
11:27<Xaroth|Work>packetlength 0x001B
11:27<Xaroth|Work>packetid 0x00
11:27<retro|cz>yup, that's packed id
11:27<retro|cz>I can join server, so I'm doing it probably right now.
11:27<Xaroth|Work>strings are null terminated
11:28<Xaroth|Work>the rest of the data is not
11:28<retro|cz>I can join server and I can see my botname and version is parsed correctly.
11:28<retro|cz>Xaroth, ahh, OK. Same system is used in source query protocol.
11:28<Xaroth|Work>that's.. in the docs :P
11:28<Xaroth|Work>what little there is
11:29<Xaroth|Work>also note that he counts password as 9 bytes
11:29<Xaroth|Work>even though password is only 8 long
11:29<Xaroth|Work>(the null terminator)
11:29<Xaroth|Work>and it looks as though he ends the 0x1B with a 0x00, but it's LE
11:29<Xaroth|Work>so it really is 0x001B
11:30<Xaroth|Work>@base 0x001B
11:30<@DorpsGek>Xaroth|Work: 27
11:32<retro|cz>Xaroth, yup, I'm getting this. Thanks.
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11:46<@DorpsGek>Commit by planetmaker :: r25774 trunk/src/table/townname.h (2013-09-15 15:46:19 UTC)
11:46<@DorpsGek>-Fix [FS#5746]: Some spelling corrections to Latin American town names (juanjo)
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11:48<@DorpsGek>Commit by planetmaker :: r25775 trunk/src/table/townname.h (2013-09-15 15:48:38 UTC)
11:48<@DorpsGek>-Fix [FS#5746]: Some spelling corrections to Catalan town names (juanjo)
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11:56<@DorpsGek>Commit by planetmaker :: r25776 trunk/src/music_gui.cpp (2013-09-15 15:56:46 UTC)
11:56<@DorpsGek>-Add [FS#5743]: Sticky and shade buttons for jukebox window (retro)
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12:00<LordAro>congrats on becoming a contributer :)
12:00<retro|cz>Yeah, really big one!
12:00<@planetmaker>bigger than my first patch ;-)
12:01<LordAro>smaller than my first one :p
12:04<LordAro>@commit 21654
12:04<@DorpsGek>LordAro: Commit by yexo :: r21654 /trunk (5 files in 2 dirs) (2010-12-29 12:19:33 UTC)
12:04<@DorpsGek>LordAro: -Add: [NoAI] AITown::IsCity() so AIs can find out which towns grow faster than others (Lord Aro)
12:05<frosch123>are you sure there is no earlier one by darloro or so?
12:05<LordAro>reasonably sure
12:05<LordAro>because that was when i was still doing ai scripting :)
12:06<LordAro>@commit 23178
12:06<@DorpsGek>LordAro: Commit by rubidium :: r23178 /trunk/src (5 files in 2 dirs) (2011-11-10 06:15:03 UTC)
12:06<@DorpsGek>LordAro: -Feature [FS#4780]: in-game readme.txt readmer (LordAro)
12:06<LordAro>^ my main feature :)
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12:43<Djohaal>hmm, is it possible to identfy a client as a server administrator (when running dedicated server?)
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12:47<frosch123>Djohaal: you can query it from
12:48<Djohaal>get out of my intertubes obama
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12:53<retro|cz>Xaroth, protocol version is still 1?
12:55<retro|cz>hmm, seems it is
12:55<LordAro>frosch123: interestingly enough, isn't even a website at all :)
12:56<frosch123>oh, they no longer consider themself part of gov?
12:56<frosch123>LordAro: anyway, your access has been logged nevertheless
12:57<frosch123>can you run? you have 3 minutes left
12:57<@planetmaker>oh no!
13:07<Djohaal>suddenly black vans and helicopters
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13:17<retro|cz>hmm, Xaroth are you around? I don't really understand what ProtocolInfo settings really are.
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13:45<@DorpsGek>Commit by translators :: r25777 /trunk/src/lang (5 files) (2013-09-15 17:45:28 UTC)
13:45<@DorpsGek>-Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
13:45<@DorpsGek>finnish - 60 changes by Tve4
13:45<@DorpsGek>german - 2 changes by Jogio
13:45<@DorpsGek>italian - 1 changes by lorenzodv
13:45<@DorpsGek>slovak - 2 changes by Milsa
13:45<@DorpsGek>vietnamese - 2 changes by nglekhoi
13:52<Xaroth|Work>retro|cz: key-value for the poll types and their accepted poll values
13:55<retro|cz>Xaroth, thanks. I have same result as loa2, but I didn't know what does it mean. thanks
13:59<Xaroth|Work>basically, you can ask the server to send you information on a regular basis
13:59<Xaroth|Work>things like the ingame date
13:59<Xaroth|Work>company economy, etc
14:00<Xaroth|Work>the protocolinfo bit tells the client what type can be polled at what interval
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14:12<retro|cz>I can't provide translation for validation?
14:13<Xaroth|Work>you cant what?
14:14<retro|cz>There are two untranslated string in Czech translation. But I can't save them. How can I send it to openttd team?
14:15<Xaroth|Work>use webtranslator?
14:15<LordAro> ?
14:15<retro|cz>I can't do modifications, since I'm not editor.
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14:18<retro|cz>ohh, send mail to
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15:06<Xaroth|Work>TWerkhoven: you use the adminconnection directly?
15:07<TWerkhoven>no, trackingclient
15:07<Xaroth|Work>your stacktrace looked a bit off :)
15:08<TWerkhoven>you been playin with soap?
15:08<TWerkhoven>or is this the issue
15:08<TWerkhoven>that i created on github
15:08<Xaroth|Work>the issue
15:10<TWerkhoven>yeah, conn.recv_packet always fires adminconnections recv_packet. It gets the packet, then fires the events back to trackingclient -> soapclient -> soap
15:12<Xaroth|Work>you might want to change line 80-82 around a bit btw
15:12<Xaroth|Work>instead of iterating twice, just the .get
15:12<Xaroth|Work>and checking if conn is None
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15:18<retro|cz>Xaroth, did you exprienced also some weird packet on server game restart?
15:18<retro|cz>When I'm just connected and not subscribed to server.
15:19<retro|cz>On gamerestart I've got some packet starting with two 0x00.
15:19<Xaroth|Work>you mean AdminJoin?
15:19<@planetmaker>Mind that game start != server start. Some servers do both or so
15:20<Xaroth|Work>er, wait, that's sending
15:20<Xaroth|Work>0x0000 ?
15:20<retro|cz>hmm, probably
15:20<Xaroth|Work>get me a hexdump of the packet
15:20<retro|cz>But I'm receiving this. Not sending.
15:23<Xaroth|Work>TWerkhoven: think safest method is to wrap the receiving in a try/catch
15:23<Xaroth|Work>I'll put that in the main connection
15:25<retro|cz>second looks like ServerWelcome
15:26<Xaroth|Work>it does
15:27<Xaroth|Work>it's two packets, really
15:27<Xaroth|Work>the "h" part is the packetid for ServerWelcome
15:28<Xaroth|Work>it's more than two, even
15:28<Xaroth|Work>the i is the indicator for ServerNewGame
15:28<retro|cz>I have not implemented that. But I wonder whats the start.
15:28<Xaroth|Work>"\x03", "\x00", "i"
15:28<Xaroth|Work>that is ServerNewGame
15:29<Xaroth|Work>but really, you're introducing a major flaw in your code already
15:29<Xaroth|Work>you -always- know the length of the packet you're about to receive
15:29<Xaroth|Work>so -always- read that much into a buffer
15:29<Xaroth|Work>if you don't have the packet handler for that packet
15:30<Xaroth|Work>you can discard that buffer (or inform the user about it)
15:30<Xaroth|Work>that way you can't end up with broken packet data
15:30<Xaroth|Work>only with nice hex-dumps of all your missing packets
15:31<retro|cz>Yup I have a kind of "Packetizer" class called for now. It takes raw data and returns array of packets passed to "Worker" where I know a packet ID and parse it by separate class made for that packet type.
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15:32<retro|cz>this are raw data
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15:37<retro|cz>Ahh, I'm getting you.
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15:41<Xaroth|Work>TWerkhoven: if i rcon quit through the openttd-admin console now, I don't get the disconnect twice anymore
15:41<Xaroth|Work>can you verify?
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15:42<TWerkhoven>sure, hold on
15:43<Xaroth|Work>else my test environment is fucked :P
15:44<Xaroth|Work>if you need a server to connect to, that can also be arranged.
15:45<TWerkhoven>got one here
15:45<Xaroth|Work>just one?
15:45<TWerkhoven>i can even start it from irc now
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15:46<Xaroth|Work>(as in, so I can close issue #4? :) )
15:46<TWerkhoven>sorry, meant the testserver
15:46<retro|cz>thanks Xaroth I rewrote my code and it is much simpler now. :-*
15:46<TWerkhoven>almost there, was just shifting to lappy
15:46<retro|cz>and works with restart
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15:49<TWerkhoven>i removed teh workaround from soap (line 191), the disconnect only fires once on disconnecting
15:49<TWerkhoven>still fires twice on reloading the plugin for some reason though
15:50<TWerkhoven>lemmme check the lib console too
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15:52<TWerkhoven>console is fine
15:53<TWerkhoven>does force_disconnect fire the event by any chance?
15:53<TWerkhoven>thatll be why one of them shows then
15:53<TWerkhoven>i call that on unloading just to make sure everything is disconnected
15:54<Xaroth|Work>that explains then
15:56<Xaroth|Work>how do you create patches in tortoisehg >_>
15:56<TWerkhoven>not sure
15:57<Xaroth|Work>if it happens again, just reopen the ticket with what you did to make it happen
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16:23<TWerkhoven>Xaroth|Work like that?
16:29*TWerkhoven will get there eventually
16:38<Xaroth|Work>TWerkhoven: why are you re-building the poll list every time?
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16:39<Xaroth|Work>why not build a dict next to self.connections that has the fileno()s
16:46<TWerkhoven>true, i could add it in there upon registering, and remove it when disconnected for whatever reason
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---Logclosed Mon Sep 16 00:00:24 2013