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#openttd IRC Logs for 2013-09-21

---Logopened Sat Sep 21 00:00:29 2013
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05:26<Wolf01>hello o/
05:27<LordAro>/o
05:27<@Alberth>moin
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05:30<@planetmaker>moin
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06:06<@DorpsGek>Commit by zuu :: r25787 trunk/src/misc_cmd.cpp (2013-09-21 10:06:23 UTC)
06:06<@DorpsGek>-Doc: Doxygen comment was wrong
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06:09<LordAro>quak
06:09<frosch123>moin
06:11<@Rubidium>ohayou
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06:17<V453000>mu
06:17<@Alberth>yo
06:19<LordAro>oy
06:24<AndreasB>yoyoyoy
06:24<AndreasB>any of you scandinavian?
06:28*LordAro points at Zuu (i think)
06:30<Zuu>correct
06:30<LordAro>yay :)
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08:14<oskari89>AndreasB: I am?
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09:07<@DorpsGek>Commit by zuu :: r25788 /trunk/src (9 files in 4 dirs) (2013-09-21 13:07:42 UTC)
09:07<@DorpsGek>-Feature: [Script] Game Scripts can now charge fees and give money to companies
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09:21<Zuu>GS: "A new industry will open. You can now bid on getting it located near your HQ."
09:24<@Alberth>Like I want that smelly building anywhere near my HQ :D
09:25<matkum>is there any benefit of the hq building
09:25<matkum>so, does it matter, where to establish it
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09:32<frosch123>hmm, what's the replacement for the "target" in "<a>" links in html?
09:33<frosch123>specifically to open in new tab/window
09:33<frosch123>apparently "target" is deprecated or so
09:34<frosch123>matkum: it supplies pax and mail, so it makes sense to build it at the very beginning of the game in a town you transport stuff from/to to increase production
09:34<frosch123>it's irrelevant for bigger towns though
09:35<frosch123>so, it's more of an early game bonus or so
09:35<matkum>ah, ok. good to know
09:35<Pinkbeast>matkum: Put it somewhere you will often look to stroke your ego. That's what I do, but then I'm a monstrous egotist.
09:36<matkum>I started from year 1950 and now 1965, having 2 mil euros, so not that bad
09:38<Eddi|zuHause>i only know "<a href="">"
09:38<Eddi|zuHause>when i last coded html, tabs didn't exist yet :)
09:39<Zuu>frosch123: target has been "not recommended" to use for long, but I don't know of a replacement to achive the same (ignoring javascript solutions)
09:40<Zuu>The general recommendation is to let users decide themself if they want a new tab or not. Not to impose it in the html code. However, in some situations depending on the user group it may still be valid to set target=_new.
09:42<matkum>or target=_blank
09:43<@Alberth>wiki also uses target <a target="helpwindow" href="/Help:Editing">Editing help</a> (opens in new window)
09:46<frosch123>oh, it was un-depricated :p
09:48<@Alberth>:)
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10:13<DanMacK>@seen andythenorth
10:13<@DorpsGek>DanMacK: andythenorth was last seen in #openttd 3 days, 17 hours, 10 minutes, and 44 seconds ago: <andythenorth> have fun with law :)
10:14<@Alberth>it's too early :)
10:14<DanMacK>heh
10:16<frosch123>oh my, my html skills..,
10:16<frosch123>i should just let andy fix it
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11:07*roboboy says gnight
11:09<@DorpsGek>Commit by zuu :: r25789 trunk/src/town_cmd.cpp (2013-09-21 15:09:00 UTC)
11:09<@DorpsGek>-Fix (r25783): Calling GSTown.FoundTown in world gen caused world gen to terminate and start the game
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12:17<Zuu>GS API question: Should GSStoryPage.NewElement be able to construct all element types or should specialized NewXYZElement methods be added for types where the uint32 parameter is composed by several bit-shifted variables?
12:17<Zuu>With several methods the bit-shifting magic is not exposed to GSes.
12:18<Zuu>A Squirrel side wrapper could create a combined method where a table is used to pass the parameters and dynamically choose the API to call based on the element type.
12:27<frosch123>i don't think bit stuffing should be part of the api
12:27<frosch123>how is it done for orders?
12:28<frosch123>bit stuffing is bad because it cannot be extended
12:28<Zuu>I can't think of any API that require bit stuffing
12:28<frosch123>we cannot change the format, add parameters, move them somewhere else
12:29<frosch123>[18:28] <Zuu> I can't think of any API that require bit stuffing <- hu? that's what you were asking, wasn't it?
12:30<Zuu>I was wondering if bit stuffing should be used when extending an existing API or if a separate method should be added with new parameters (and internaly combine several parameters to p2)
12:31<frosch123>i think the api should provide new functions with more parameters
12:31<frosch123>that way you are free to change the p2 format any time when needed
12:32<Zuu>Good, I'm somewhat towards that idea too. Also that means that the doxygen of one combined method doesn't has to explode. (it is already quite large for just the page element types in trunk)
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12:39<alluke>aww
12:40<alluke>why was switc climate removed :(
12:42<alluke>good thing i found ottd 1.0.5
12:46<frosch123>aww, why was switch climate added even in the first place :/
12:46<frosch123>good thing we god rid of that nonsense
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13:14<DanMacK>Switch climate creates too many issues
13:14<DanMacK>always did
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13:45<@DorpsGek>Commit by translators :: r25790 trunk/src/lang/ukrainian.txt (2013-09-21 17:45:18 UTC)
13:45<@DorpsGek>-Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
13:45<@DorpsGek>ukrainian - 11 changes by odisseus
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14:02<DanMacK>o/
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14:55<Djohaal>hey Zuu
14:56<Djohaal>derpy question, is the current neighbours are important release incompatible with founding new towns? The script crashes for me
14:57<Zuu>It is supposed to work
14:58<Zuu>So in that case it is a bug
14:59<Djohaal>I'm using a patched version tho
15:00<Supercheese>Well, that may be causing problems, test with clean trunk?
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15:02<Zuu>I'm able to reproduce it in clean trunk.
15:02<Zuu>If you read the log you'll see that the script detect the new town and the crash occur due to a bug in the code that handles the new town.
15:03<Djohaal>I'll check
15:04<Djohaal>yup
15:04<Djohaal>crash at addtown function
15:06<Zuu>I've found and fixed it locally already. :-)
15:08<Zuu>Its a mistake in a pice of code that only run when a town is funded in the game. The code adds the new town to the register of all towns in a sector of the map. This is used to speed up the script on large maps, but apparently this bug sneaked in. :-(
15:09<Djohaal>shweet
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15:29<andythenorth>DanMacK: ohai
15:32<Zuu>Djohaal: You can find an update on bananas now with the bug fixed.
15:32<Djohaal>sweet
15:32<Djohaal>thnaks
15:33<DanMacK>Hey Andy
15:35<@DorpsGek>Commit by zuu :: r25791 trunk/src/script/api/script_company.cpp (2013-09-21 19:35:49 UTC)
15:35<@DorpsGek>-Fix (r25788): Silence comiler warning in ScriptCompany::ChangeBankBalance
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17:16<andythenorth>meh
17:16<andythenorth>train flipping is unexpectedly hard
17:17<andythenorth>offsets are borked
17:26<Eddi|zuHause>yes, offsets are not related to the center of the bounding box but the "hidden" corner of the bounding box
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17:27<Eddi|zuHause>which makes a +-6/+-2 offset variation when flipping direction
17:27<Eddi|zuHause>or something like that
17:27<Eddi|zuHause>might be 7/3
17:30<andythenorth>meh
17:30<andythenorth>I thought it was bad spritesheet layouts, but not
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17:30<andythenorth>is there some var I have to check for 'flipped'?
17:30<andythenorth>and then fix it myself with a switch to different offsets?
17:30<Eddi|zuHause>yes, there is a var
17:31<Eddi|zuHause>"veh_is_flipped" or something
17:31<andythenorth>vehicle_is_reversed ?
17:31<Eddi|zuHause>there are two different ones
17:31<Eddi|zuHause>one is for vehicles reversing at end of line, and one for flipping in depot
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17:32<Eddi|zuHause>you probably want the second kind
17:32<andythenorth>hmm
17:32<andythenorth>nfo spec is probably better
17:33<Eddi|zuHause>reversing at end of line is for people who want to switch cab car and engine to drive backwards
17:33<Eddi|zuHause>which you should probably not do :p
17:33<andythenorth>think that's modflags FE bit 8
17:34<andythenorth>reversed sprite is var C8
17:35<andythenorth>nml vehicle_is_reversed is modflags FE bit 8
17:35<Eddi|zuHause>hm, i find only the part where you allow/disallow flipping, not where you read it
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17:35<andythenorth>nml lacks it
17:35<andythenorth>afaict
17:36<andythenorth>hmm
17:36<andythenorth>out of battery :P
17:36<andythenorth>bed time :)
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17:37<Eddi|zuHause>seems an odd thing that nml doesn't provide this variable
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17:56<@planetmaker>Eddi|zuHause, misc_flags: bitmask(TRAIN_FLAG_FLIP)
17:58<@planetmaker>hm, as variable though? Hm...
17:58<Eddi|zuHause>planetmaker: that's the property to SET allow flipping, not the variable to read it
18:00<@planetmaker>which variable is it?
18:01<Eddi|zuHause>i'd say ask andy... :)
18:02<@planetmaker>ah, C8
18:03<@planetmaker>wonderful... "FD for trains forward, FE or FF when reversed
18:03<@planetmaker>@base 16 2 FD
18:03<@DorpsGek>planetmaker: 11111101
18:03<Eddi|zuHause>does that only apply to ctrl+click flipping or also for the second part of a dualhead?
18:03<Eddi|zuHause>so mask only the 2nd bit?
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18:05<@planetmaker>probably...
18:06<Eddi|zuHause>unfortunately, i have no use for this variable, as pretty much all my vehicles are articulated
18:08<@planetmaker>I can't answer your question without looking at hte source... which I'm too tired to dig through at this time of the day :-)
18:08<@planetmaker>but nevertheless, it could be added... probably should
18:08<@planetmaker>hm... though it might have had some reason not to... not sure :-)
18:11<@planetmaker>hm... no 0xC8 in newgrf.cpp
18:12<Eddi|zuHause>you have to substract 0x80
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18:18<@planetmaker>I don't think so...
18:19<Eddi|zuHause>i do think so
18:20<Eddi|zuHause>hm, you sure C8 is correct?
18:21<@planetmaker>there's no other. other than "train reversed". Which is what NML provides
18:22<@planetmaker>which is FE, bit 8
18:23<Eddi|zuHause>oh right, i miscalculated. it's 28, not 38
18:23<Eddi|zuHause>src/newgrf_engine.cpp: case 0x28: return 0; // cur_image is a potential desyncer due to Action1 in static NewGRFs.
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18:26<frosch123>C8 - 80 = 48
18:27<frosch123>return HasBit(Train::From(v)->flags, VRF_REVERSE_DIRECTION) ? 0xFE : 0xFD; <- that's the relevant part
18:27<frosch123>other results only occur if you use original sprites
18:27<Eddi|zuHause>argh
18:28<Eddi|zuHause>i'm clearly unable to calculate in my head
18:28<frosch123>that FD is the same stupid FD you have to assign to property 12
18:30<Eddi|zuHause>yeah i guessed as much
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19:06<Wolf01>'night
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21:54<Eddi|zuHause>meybe we should get rid of these hysterical names "DOS palette" and "Windows palette"
21:54<Supercheese>+1
21:54<Eddi|zuHause>suggestions for alternative names?
22:13<@planetmaker>openttd and crippled
22:13<@planetmaker>(as openttd anyway converts everything to DOS palette)
22:16<Eddi|zuHause>i was aiming for something slightly more neutral... :)
22:16<@planetmaker>:-)
22:16<Eddi|zuHause>like "original" and "alternate"
22:17<@planetmaker>problem is... renaming that to new 'standard names' will be like http://xkcd.com/927/
22:18<Eddi|zuHause>i'm sure of that :)
22:18<@planetmaker>I wonder though whether we should disable the 'palette' button when the NewGRF supplies an action14 which defines palette
22:18<Eddi|zuHause>that probably makes sense
22:18<@planetmaker>(unless newgrf developer :) )
22:18<Eddi|zuHause>was about to say that :)
22:19<@planetmaker>hm... but we haven't read the newgrf in that window... gah
22:19<@planetmaker>hm... or we do?
22:19<@planetmaker>we likely do
22:22<Eddi|zuHause>i'm pretty sure that info is available
22:22<@planetmaker>likely
22:22<@planetmaker>somehow
22:23<Eddi|zuHause>but do we distinguish between "set by action14" and "guessed by advanced setting"?
22:23<@planetmaker>dunno
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22:25<@planetmaker>I hope GRFConfig would know
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22:31<@planetmaker>should know it... newgrf.cpp:7195 ChangeGRFPalette
22:33<@planetmaker>but ... GRF_P_GRF_UNSET is not propagated...
22:34<Eddi|zuHause>that is what i meant
22:47<@planetmaker>newgrf_config.cpp:59ff... should be available :-)
22:47<@planetmaker>default values of 0 means: no info provided. That can be queried
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22:53<Sarah-Beth>I'm in a Live Adult Video Chat Room Naked - http://bit.ly/1aV6Bk4
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22:58<SarahBeth-CHAT>I'm in a Live Adult Video Chat Room Naked - http://bit.ly/1aV6Bk4
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22:58<@planetmaker>@kban *!*SaraBeth@*!*
22:58<@DorpsGek>planetmaker: Error: *!*SaraBeth@*!* is not in #openttd.
22:59-!-mode/#openttd [+b *!*SarahBeth@*!*] by planetmaker
22:59-!-mode/#openttd [+b *!*@cpe-67-255-86-176.main.res.rr.com] by planetmaker
23:11<@planetmaker>Eddi|zuHause, http://devs.openttd.org/~planetmaker/patches/no_palette_change.diff
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---Logclosed Sun Sep 22 00:00:31 2013