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#openttd IRC Logs for 2013-09-24

---Logopened Tue Sep 24 00:00:34 2013
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01:41<retro|cz>Eddi|zuHause, that's cool hovercraft.
01:42<retro|cz>ahh, that was Japa's
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03:41<Supercheese>Whew, starting a Latin translation for OTTD is going to be rough
03:41<Supercheese>lots of genders and cases to keep track of
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04:20<__ln__>hb pm
04:26<Supercheese>Valete omnēs, dormiturus sum
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04:28<V453000>asdf y
04:31<MNIM>Supercheese: wait, there wasn't one yet?
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05:29<Eddi|zuHause>we did have piglatin for a while, if that counts :p
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05:33*MNIM plays with latin town names.
05:33<@planetmaker>MNIM, not town names. The entire UI :-)
05:35<MNIM>I know.
05:35<MNIM>but it's why I figured there'd be someone crazy, err, enthusiastic enough to do the ui in latin, too
05:36<MNIM>don't all great pieces of software have a latin version?:
05:37<@planetmaker>who knows? :-)
05:37<Eddi|zuHause>do you know a great piece of software?
05:38<Eddi|zuHause>it's easy to make assertions about members of the empty set :p
05:39<__ln__>if OpenTTD was available in latin, i would only play it in latin.
05:40<__ln__>at least once a native speaker has proofread it.
05:40<Eddi|zuHause>see, both these sentences could easily apply to the empty set :p
05:42<__ln__>"Hamaxostichus (-i, m.) est in rebus ferriviariis genus vehiculorum inter se copulatorum quae a machina vectrice in orbitis trahuntur."
05:44<Eddi|zuHause>sounds more like a dinosaur
05:48<@planetmaker>sounds strange :-)
05:48<Eddi|zuHause>i have a feeling YNM completely missed the point of the suggestion...
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05:55<@planetmaker>what do you refer to, Eddi|zuHause ?
05:55<Eddi|zuHause>forum
05:57<@planetmaker>he... got a forum message "My name is Daniel and I am contacting you in order to ask few questions regarding OpenTTD and bus movement. May you help me with some answers regarding the change of direction and the movement itself?". I replied with my counceling fees ;-)
05:57<Eddi|zuHause>suggestion: "stations should have limited capacity of certain cargos depending on which tiles you place" - reply: "stations have unlimited capacity"
05:57<@planetmaker>ah, thx
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08:17<alluke>why cant ottd use 2gb sprite cache
08:17<alluke>i always get the warning
08:17<V453000>2gb? o_O
08:20<Xaroth|Work>o_O
08:20<Xaroth|Work>how many sprites are you using again?
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08:45<__ln__>i'm tempted to buy a latin grammar book now
08:45<__ln__>well not just grammar, a beginner's book that teaches the appropriate phrases that a tourist needs.
08:50<V453000>caput, anus, you know everything you need
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08:50<V453000>a-z
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09:21<DanMacK>Hey all
09:23<alluke>hi
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10:09<@Belugas>hello
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10:36<cyph3r>Hi. Guys please, does anyone know how to undo a terraforming limit? I've got a savegame from one multiplayer game I've played recently and I can't seem to be able to undo this. I'd like to landscape without limits :(
10:36<cyph3r>I've found terraform_frame_burst (which I'm not sure what it does), but no documentation for it.
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10:39<V453000>try to type "set terraform_frame_burst" in the console
10:39<V453000>without ""
10:39<V453000>that will get you the current value
10:40<V453000>idk if 0 will disable the thing, I think you need to set the highest value possible - trying something like 33333333333333333333 might do that
10:40<V453000>I think max is like 64k
10:40<@planetmaker>I believe it does, yes
10:40<V453000>yarr
10:40<@planetmaker>nah, max is like 2**32
10:40<@planetmaker>iirc
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10:40<cyph3r>Well, It's 65535 which is the max. 0 does absolute ban on terraforming and supposed max value should be 1073741824
10:40<V453000>^_
10:40<V453000>more or less :)
10:41<V453000>I suppose it works like with other settings, if you set station_spread to 666, it results in 64 anyway
10:41<V453000>so try a high number
10:41<cyph3r>Yea, but when I set this value, and then write "setting terraform_frame_burst", the value is 0 :D
10:41<V453000>well then if you try something like 30k, it will still work fine enough?
10:41<@planetmaker>there are more than the burst setting
10:42<V453000>^ that too
10:42<V453000>try clear_frame_burst
10:42<@planetmaker>terraform_per_64k_frames = 4194304
10:42<@planetmaker>terraform_frame_burst = 4096
10:42<@planetmaker>clear_per_64k_frames = 4194304
10:42<@planetmaker>clear_frame_burst = 4096
10:42<@planetmaker>tree_per_64k_frames = 4194304
10:42<@planetmaker>tree_frame_burst = 4096
10:42<V453000>yarr :)
10:42<V453000>that :)
10:42<@planetmaker>is in my cfg and I believe it's default
10:42<cyph3r>It needs to be something more, because event with 32 or 64K, it still lets me terraform just a little bit.
10:43<V453000>then check the other values pm pasted
10:43<@planetmaker>burst is burst (like in short time) and per_64k_frames is the amount you're allowed in longer time
10:43<@planetmaker>so high burst won't help if 64k_frames is very low :-)
10:45<cyph3r>Ah, that was it! Thank you SO MUCH! :]
10:45<@planetmaker>yw
10:49<V453000>and they terraformed happily ever after, happyend :>
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11:17<AndreasB>How do I join a specific company in a saved network game thats opened locally?
11:19<AndreasB>nvm, started a server
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11:47<zooks>Im at a point where there are too many road vehicles for my cpu to handle, which makes the mouse pointer react really slow. Is there a way to give the ui a higher priority than the gameticks/pf?
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11:52<TinoDidriksen>If that part was threaded out, but I don't think it is...
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12:24<Dozer>planetmaker I've been playing with some friends for the last couple of days, and yesterday we found some sweet as fuck mods. Got some new trains, vacuum-train, and a shitload of new industries. Now I'm just wondering, if you know the name of one of those mods, that allows stations and trains to be more than 12 squares long and wide?
12:26<zooks>Dozer, it's an advanced setting in normal openttd
12:26<Pinkbeast>Dozer: Isn't that just an option?
12:26<Dozer>Oh, I didn't know.
12:26<Dozer>I though it was a mod.
12:29<Dozer>64 is the max, no matter what? I noticed that bridge and tunnel length are greyed out, but they are already at 64 both.
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14:13<@Terkhen>hello
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15:33<fjb_mobile>Moin
15:34<@Rubidium>hi
15:41<retro|cz>Any checked already my pimped jukebox?
15:41<retro|cz>Anyone checked already my pimped jukebox?
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15:45<LordAro>*Anyone already checked my pimped jukebox? :p
15:45<LordAro>no, btw ;)
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15:46<MNIM> *Has anyone already checked my pimped jukebox? :p
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15:58<__ln__>ohh, i learned only now that Atari was Steve Jobs's former employer.
15:59<@Rubidium>*does anyone care about a pimped jukebox?
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16:17<@Terkhen>good night
16:19<Longtomjr-phone>night
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16:49<frosch123>night
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16:58<Supercheese>I never realized there was a wikipedia in latin
16:58<Supercheese>http://la.wikipedia.org
17:01<__ln__>it's quite useful for finding terms in latin
17:02<Supercheese>Indeed
17:02<__ln__>so... did you start with the OpenTTD translation yet? :)
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17:03<Supercheese>Yes, I'm not sure how to handle cases yet; I'm emulating Greek for the moment
17:03<Supercheese>still translating cargos
17:04<@Belugas>that is a fun way of spending time :)
17:04<__ln__>excellent
17:04<Supercheese>I'll want some proofreaders at some point
17:04<Supercheese>:)
17:05<__ln__>i guess once it's completed some dialects such as french, spanish, and italian can be dropped.
17:06<Supercheese>http://la.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hamaxostichus
17:06<Supercheese>I... never knew
17:07<__ln__>wtf does that word mean as such? or does some more commonly word derive from it?
17:07<Supercheese>Hamaxostichus is apparently "train"
17:07<+glx>seems so
17:07<Supercheese>seems rather more Greek than Latin
17:08<__ln__>but since i don't think the Roman empire had trains, did that word mean something else back then?
17:09<Supercheese>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hamaxitus
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17:09<Supercheese>Seems derived from that city name
17:09<Supercheese>"The city's name derives from ἅμαξα (hamaxa) meaning 'wagon',"
17:09<Supercheese>my Greek guess was correct
17:10<Supercheese>good old Romans, just conquer civilizations and adopt their words
17:10<Supercheese>ugh, how to translate "Cola"
17:10<Supercheese>silly Toyland
17:11<MNIM>Supercheese: I know of not a single language that translate it, since it's (originally) a brand name...
17:11<MNIM>so I wouldn't
17:11<Supercheese>I thought it came from the Kola nut?
17:12<Supercheese>but sure, sounds reasonable
17:12<MNIM>originally it's from the coke plant.
17:12<MNIM>since that's what cola originally contained.
17:13<MNIM>Ehh. coca plant, not coke plant
17:14<Supercheese>http://la.wikipedia.org/wiki/Piratae_Maris_Caribii_%28pellicula%29
17:14<Supercheese>I need to read this entire wiki
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17:15<MNIM>So I suppose you could use something derived from the scientific name for the plant, but there's not much variation there
17:15<MNIM>oh hey. of course there's a latin wiki
17:17<__ln__>" in Germania comitia habebentur. cancellaria Angela Merkel et Petrus Steinbrück candidati primarum duarum factionarum CDU et SPD erant et Angela Merkel vicit"
17:18<Supercheese>I've noticed the Latin wiki seems to not use macrons
17:18<Supercheese>I've been using them in translating, I wonder what popular opinion is on that
17:18<MNIM>macrons?
17:18<Supercheese>i.e. in Germaniā
17:18<Supercheese>vs. in Germania
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17:18<MNIM>oh
17:19<MNIM>no no no no
17:19<MNIM>that is not latin!
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17:20<__ln__>Supercheese: btw, are you aware that the finnish broadcasting corporation is sending news in latin on the radio? (also available online)
17:20<MNIM>I mean, the U, word separation and punctuation is one thing, but macrons?
17:21<Supercheese>and then there's the whole lowercase letter stuff ;)
17:21<MNIM>Oh, yes, and that.
17:21<Supercheese>I'll not use them, who am I to disagree with the Latin wiki?
17:24<__ln__>Supercheese: http://areena.yle.fi/radio/1986167
17:24<Supercheese>!
17:24<MNIM>though I suppose you could call that punctuation
17:24<MNIM>also, wut
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17:25<Supercheese>impetus chemicus, heh
17:25<MNIM>apparently some dutch people are not too good at english.
17:25<MNIM>had to offer a translation to the dutch 'barman'
17:25<MNIM>gee, I wonder how I should translate that!
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17:30<MNIM>hmmmh.
17:30<Supercheese>Seems outside of the texts I used to learn Latin, macrons aren't really used
17:31<MNIM>I find wikipedia's latin translation for (internet) 'site' to be a bit unelegant.
17:31*Supercheese shrugs
17:32<Supercheese>I'd say
17:32<Supercheese>"pagina"
17:32<Supercheese>i.e. web page
17:33<Supercheese>Hehe, "Frequenter Allatae Quaestiones "
17:33<Supercheese>"Interretialiter Relatum Colloquium "
17:33<Supercheese>a bit of a stretch
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17:38<MNIM>Supercheese: pagina works slightly better, though my inclination would be to emphasize the internet or electronic aspect to differentiate, though that is less needed with with 'pagina', I suppose
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17:40<__ln__>i definitely need to buy a latin textbook.
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17:40<Supercheese>http://www.obta.uw.edu.pl/~draco/docs/voccomp.html
17:40<Supercheese>Surprisingly, there's not an entry for "web page" or similar there
17:41<Supercheese>although there is "homepage subst. pagina domestica "
17:41<__ln__>but 'web' is there
17:41<Supercheese>pagina telae
17:41<Supercheese>telae pagina, etc.
17:42<Supercheese>Hah, Tela Totius Terrae
17:42<MNIM>pretty nice one
17:44<__ln__>Interretialiter Relatum Colloquium
17:44<Supercheese>already mentioned that one ;)
17:44<__ln__>oh yes
17:44<Supercheese>rather relevant, non?
17:44<Supercheese>or well, nonne
17:44<Supercheese>but I always thing French even when I say that in latin
17:44<Supercheese>think*
17:44<__ln__>do the romans pronounce the first 'u' in Colloquium?
17:45<Supercheese>I can't say, but my professor did, so I do :P
17:46<__ln__>hmm, yes, i don't suppose latin really has this concept of unpronounced letters, nor letters pronounced in a completely arbitrary way.
17:46<MNIM>as did my professor
17:46<MNIM>original latin, anyway.
17:47<MNIM>church latin (gregorian) isn't so nice
17:47<Supercheese>the romans pillaged enough words from Greek that they have some silent letters
17:47<Supercheese>exempla gratia http://la.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pneumaticum
17:48<Supercheese>exempli*
17:49<Supercheese>YES, they mention Donkey Kong Country in that article
17:49<Supercheese>that is awesome :D
17:49<MNIM>ah, right, the greek eu
17:49<__ln__>indeed
17:50<__ln__>yeah, the greek are in eu, still
17:50<MNIM>sadly, though that was not what I was talking about >.>
17:59<@planetmaker>Supercheese, wrt cases, can't you in the lang file define your own cases simply?
18:00<@planetmaker>or why is it that you "pillage" the greek translation?
18:00<Supercheese>Sure, I'm just not sure about invoking cases in string calls and the like
18:00<Supercheese>It shouldn't be a problem, I just haven't gotten there yet
18:01<@planetmaker>if you need cases at all. E.g. German language has cases, the German translation of OpenTTD can do without any
18:02<@planetmaker>and instead has an additional gender: male, femal, neuter and plural ;-)
18:02<Supercheese>I'd anticipate when interacting with e.g. town names that are called by {STRING}, cases may be necessary
18:02<+glx>yeah 3 genders for french too ;)
18:02<Supercheese>or... abusing plurals?
18:02<+glx>(2 male)
18:02<Supercheese>genders, rather?
18:03<@planetmaker>there's three things: plurals, genders and cases
18:03<Supercheese>I'll cross that bridge when I come to it
18:04<@planetmaker>plurals define the flexion of the words depending on a preceeding number:
18:04<@planetmaker>0 houses
18:04<@planetmaker>1 house
18:04<@planetmaker>1+n houses (n>1)
18:04<+glx>language dependant
18:04<@planetmaker>other languages have more than 2 forms there. and for other numbers
18:04<@planetmaker>https://paste.openttdcoop.org/show/2661/
18:05<@planetmaker>^ currently defined plural schemes
18:05<@planetmaker>English is in line 1 (2 cases, special 1)
18:05<Supercheese>yikes
18:05<Djohaal>hmm
18:06<Djohaal>is there any way of tracking the orign of a desync?
18:06<Supercheese>four plural forms... whew
18:06<@planetmaker>yeah... we added the last one only recently for Scotish Gaelic
18:06<@planetmaker>like this summer somewhen
18:07<@planetmaker>but then: there's also five ;-) (line 6)
18:07<+glx>russian is fun for plural
18:07<@planetmaker>Russian translation has *loads* of cases
18:07<Supercheese>the mind boggles
18:07<MNIM>Supercheese: aren't you forgetting one?
18:07<@planetmaker>Supercheese, I'm actually wondering whether latin has only one or two plural forms. So easy :-)
18:07<MNIM>afaik there's five
18:08<@planetmaker>probably like Enlish there
18:08<Supercheese>Latin plurals are like English, yes
18:08<@planetmaker>so, that's easy :-)
18:08<Supercheese>fortunately
18:08<@planetmaker>:-)
18:08<Supercheese>hmmm, "cotton candy"
18:08<MNIM>ehhhh
18:08<Supercheese>:S
18:08<Supercheese>ideas?
18:09<MNIM>when I learned the thing, there's four genders, times two for plural, times five for cases.
18:09<MNIM>might've missed a case
18:09<Supercheese>I haven't mentioned cases yet
18:09<@planetmaker>so... gender. three. m, f, n. I don't think a "plural" gender works for latin as flexion of adjectives depends on noun gender
18:09<@planetmaker>so three genders
18:09<MNIM>four.
18:09<@planetmaker>?
18:10<Supercheese>Surely only 3 genders
18:10<Supercheese>unless you count indecl.
18:10<@planetmaker>nah
18:10<MNIM>indecl.?
18:10<Supercheese>undeclined
18:10<Supercheese>e.g. mane
18:10<Supercheese>"morning"
18:11<Supercheese>it's not really worth adding as a special case
18:11<@planetmaker>if there's no distinction between different genders for a string simply don't make a distinction
18:11<MNIM>I meant those not ending on -a, -um or -us in their base forms.
18:11<MNIM>like progessor
18:11<MNIM>*professor.
18:11<@planetmaker>professor always has a gender
18:12<@planetmaker>and gender is not defined by the ending. But by the word, by the actual gender
18:12<+glx>gender is mainly used for adjectives
18:12<MNIM>yeah, it does, but in grammar it's treaded as a separate gender
18:12<MNIM>*treated
18:12<MNIM>dammit
18:12<MNIM>it must be getting late, two spelling errors in a minute.
18:12<MNIM>whoa, caught a third one on time. >.<
18:13<@planetmaker>anyway, 3 genders here
18:13<@planetmaker>and cases... tbd
18:13<Markk>Hoi guise!
18:13<MNIM>Or, you know.
18:14<MNIM>this could all be solved very smoothly
18:14<Markk>Is "Ich präsentiere die Hanna" a correct form?
18:14<MNIM>by making latin the base language of ottd.
18:14<@planetmaker>how would that make anything smooth(er)?
18:14<MNIM>pretty much all grammar for the more common languages (read, indo-european) has the latin equivalent.
18:15<__ln__>Markk: sounds wrong to my non-native eyes.
18:15<@planetmaker>ok. what about Thai, Chinese, Arabic, Japanese, Korean, Malay, ...?
18:15<Markk>__ln__: Hm, mkay.
18:15<MNIM>Arabic is an indo-european language AFAIK
18:15<__ln__>Markk: though depends what is it supposed to mean.
18:16<@planetmaker>MNIM, you still didn't specify how a change of base language would make anything easier anywhere
18:16<MNIM>well, you don't need to bother finding workarounds for the lack of grammar in the base language.
18:16<@planetmaker>eh? You don't need to "work around". OpentTD supports you to define the grammar for your language
18:17<@planetmaker>but you need to define it properly
18:17<MNIM>Ah, did not know that.
18:17<MNIM>still, should solve the need to do so separately for each newly translated language.
18:17<@planetmaker>define the cases if you need them. But I'm sure you don't need vocative here
18:17<Supercheese>I'm not worried about OTTD engine being unable to handle stuff, I'm worried about me getting the syntax right :P
18:17<@planetmaker>it would not solve that either
18:18<Markk>__ln__: "I present Hanna", but the Hanna sounds a bit wierd, but I'm not sure if you should have the before a name in German.
18:18<@planetmaker>well :-) Russian has it all, for instance :-)
18:18<@planetmaker>##gender m f n p
18:18<@planetmaker>##case m f n p nom gen dat acc abl pre
18:19<@planetmaker>dunno why it has the genders also as cases (or whether that's something else entirely)
18:19<Supercheese>I doubt I'll need all cases, but we'll see
18:19<MNIM>Supercheese: ah - that's the issue of every translation :P
18:20<@planetmaker>yeah, probably not all needed. But maybe a few additional ones for constructs like AblAbs or aci
18:20<Supercheese>accusative destinations may be nice for order lists
18:21<Supercheese>we'll see :)
18:21<@planetmaker>:-)
18:21<Supercheese>cotton candy --> "Sacchari Xylinum"?
18:21<Supercheese>I'm in unknown waters here...
18:22<Supercheese>wonder what it is in spanish...
18:22<Supercheese>"Algodón Dulce"
18:22<Supercheese>pretty close
18:22<@planetmaker>Sukerŝpinaĵo in esperanto
18:23<MNIM>lol, that's awfully close to the dutch 'suikerspin'
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18:25<Supercheese>Esperantonem non loquor
18:25<MNIM>you don't speak esperanto?
18:25<MNIM>what a surprise :P
18:26<Supercheese>It's not emphasized anywhere here
18:26<Supercheese>while surprisingly, Latin still is
18:26<MNIM>well, latin used to be a world language, and is a huge influence behind most current world languages.
18:27<MNIM>whereas esperanto is the opposite of both
18:27<MNIM>having never been a world language, and having been inspired by other world languages instead
18:28<MNIM>not to mention it's an invented language, without accompanying culture or ethnic group
18:28<Supercheese>I think I'll stick with "sugar cotton" for now
18:29<MNIM>also, Esperanto is the prime example of this
18:29<MNIM>http://xkcd.com/927/
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18:39<__ln__>bonum nocte
18:39<Supercheese>vale, dormiture
18:41<Supercheese>Hmm, "toffee"
18:41<Supercheese>tough one
18:45<MNIM>something along the lines of 'soft sugar', maybe?
18:45<Supercheese>Well, it's caramelized sugar
18:45<Supercheese>more or less anyway
18:45<Supercheese>so I'm leaning towards the "caramel" part
18:46<Supercheese>caramel is apparently "saccharum tostum"
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18:46<MNIM>ah. toasted sugar.
18:46<MNIM>fair enough :P
18:46<Supercheese>Indeed :)
18:46<+glx>barbe-à-papa here :)
18:46<@planetmaker>he :-)
18:47<@planetmaker>well, have fun. And good night :-)
18:47<Supercheese>vale
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19:14<Supercheese>Can I change OTTD to do numbers in Roman Numerals? ;)
19:14<Supercheese>Not that I'd want to, but it'd be cute :P
19:14<Supercheese>want to try and read them*
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---Logclosed Wed Sep 25 00:00:35 2013