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#openttd IRC Logs for 2013-09-25

---Logopened Wed Sep 25 00:00:35 2013
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02:29<Supercheese>"__ln__ i definitely need to buy a latin textbook." See: (a bit late, but I just came across it)
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02:53<Supercheese>Also: this page is superlative for OTTD in Latin:
02:53<Supercheese>an entire section for train vocabulary
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04:08<dihedral>regarding r25788 (gs giving money and charging fees) is there a reason this should only be available to game script or may i hop on board and write a patch to incorporate that feature as console cmd or via admin port?
04:08<dihedral>or should i just pipe it through a game script with json :-)
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04:19<@planetmaker>dihedral, I do believe that game actions like changing money and playing god is a GS feature, not a game administration thing
04:19<@planetmaker>Though this point indeed can be argued
04:21<@planetmaker>I kinda fear a bit double-implementing access to all these things and then two scripts migh compete with eachother for the same ressource but different aim :-)
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04:45<dihedral>planetmaker, quite
04:46<dihedral>though i still believe it is an awesome possibility for an admin as an alternative to kick :-P
04:47<dihedral>penalty fee :-D
04:47<dihedral>well then - pipe through gs it is :)
04:47<@planetmaker>interesting thought. Piping that trough GS... might be more difficult
04:47<@planetmaker>through json possible, though
04:47<V453000>I dont think admins should be allowed to move around with money tbh :)
04:47<dihedral>planetmaker, consider the possibility of 'banking' money from one game to another :-P
04:48<@planetmaker>V453000, I actually do believe that *you* would like it. E.g. to "fix" a coop game at startup or so
04:48<@planetmaker>no need to download, fix locally and re-upload
04:48<V453000>for such case, it would be cute, on the other side, it would result in "Player"s spamming "yo admin giev me money"
04:48<dihedral>i do quite love the possibilities
04:49<dihedral>V453000, there are easy ways around that
04:49<@planetmaker>V453000, I would grant that request. By giving -100000€
04:49<dihedral>beggers fee
04:49<V453000>mhm :)
04:49<@planetmaker>that quickly would make the round, I think :D
04:49<dihedral>i would also introduce the stupidity fee for questions like 'where is the wiki' :-D
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04:50<@planetmaker>hm :-)
04:50<dihedral>have 3 server access the same 'bank' and be able to transfer cache from one game to another
04:50<@planetmaker>not sure that'd be fair tbh
04:50<dihedral>betting - now 'external' shares management
04:51<@planetmaker>it'll penalize the occasional players while giving even more advantage to the 24/7 players
04:51<@planetmaker>I'd rather install an income tax GS... like first 100k/yr free. Then increasingly steep tax on the excess revenue ;-)
04:51<@planetmaker>"communist tycoon" :-P
04:52<dihedral>a new type of loan could also be introduced - paypale me 5EUR and you will get 1000000 in the game
04:52<dihedral>pay to play
04:52<dihedral>no loan, no cache
04:52<dihedral>unless :-P
04:53<@planetmaker>'normal server' vs. 'premium server' ;-)
04:54<dihedral>but the tax thing could be fun
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04:54<Xaroth|Work>yo planetmaker giev me money
04:54<@planetmaker> @money remove xaroth -100000
04:55<Xaroth|Work>(I was surprised noone did it yet :| )
04:55<dihedral>planetmaker, remove -100000 ??
04:55<@planetmaker>drat, someone caught the twist ;-)
04:56*dihedral applauds
04:56<dihedral>who can write the game script?
04:56<dihedral>i will write the plugin for grapes
04:57<dihedral>byt the way planetmaker - i am working on the command logging plugin for you
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04:57<@planetmaker>I really should revise our game servers and setup both grapes and soap :-)
04:58<V453000>wat does that do?
04:58<dihedral>connect to the game
04:58<@planetmaker>V453000, replacement for autopilot
04:58<@planetmaker>basically. Including logging though
04:59<dihedral>and independent from openttd
04:59<dihedral>i.e. can run on a different host
05:00<@planetmaker>not sure I'd actually do that. But... it's at least and foremost quite more robust and versatile than ap+. At least in principle
05:00<dihedral>not as easy to create plugins though ;-)
05:00<dihedral>or commands
05:01<dihedral>if you want to write java code, then it's fine
05:01<dihedral>creating a file with the name of the command is not supported (yet)
05:03<dihedral>stuff like !dl :-P
05:03<@planetmaker>hm :-) Important things like !fish or !coop
05:03<dihedral>where is peter1138 - he used to have something for people saying !commands in here
05:03<@planetmaker>no. it was glx
05:03<dihedral>that guy then
05:04<NGC3982>DCC chat.
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05:23<AndreasB>DCC CHAT <3
05:23<AndreasB>Cant be monitored by server
05:23<AndreasB>all PM can be logged by server
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05:35*Xaroth|Work hands AndreasB a tinfoil hat
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06:33<dihedral>AndreasB, and you are concerned because?
06:39<Japa>Half-assed, zero-effort train sprite continues.
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06:55<AndreasB>dihedral: Just because
06:55<AndreasB>Normally use fish
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07:00<Xaroth|Work>Japa: looks like a lunchbox on wheels :D
07:05<dihedral>Xaroth, wheels on meals :-P
07:15<MNIM>now I demand a food-themed train set
07:19<juzza1>one with trains shaped like foods?
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07:28<juzza1>Potato express
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07:32<@planetmaker>heya Supercheese
07:32<@planetmaker>care to make a patch for FS#5765 ?
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07:33<@planetmaker>or... what would you consider the better version... Mightymover or MightyMover? :)
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07:56<dihedral>@fs 5765
07:57<dihedral>yes i am lazy
07:57<@planetmaker>who ain't?
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07:59<alluke> aint this arrs issue
08:07<dihedral>i want that gamescript
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08:11<@planetmaker>yes, alluke
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08:34<AndreasB>I dont see the road
08:34<AndreasB>Well, I do see the road on each side
08:34<AndreasB>But theres no road in the middle??
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08:41<AndreasB>planetmaker ?
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09:05<@planetmaker>as said: bug in NewGRF
09:06<@planetmaker>hello Taede
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09:13*Belugas yawns and try to find energy to wave hello
09:13<andythenorth>energy saving
09:13*Belugas goes to sleep
09:13<andythenorth>busy day
09:13<@Belugas>and it's only starting :(
09:13*andythenorth has taken a day off work and is making ponies
09:14*Belugas would like a day off ans still making pennies
09:14<@Belugas>or maybe loonies, for those who know ;)
09:15<AssThunder>the fuck andythenorth
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09:15<andythenorth>my boss is ok, but sometimes I'd like a break from him
09:16<V453000>how is your boss connected to making ponies
09:21<andythenorth>cargo support with different graphics
09:21*andythenorth scratches head
09:22<V453000>lazy to draw shittons of sprites? :P
09:23<V453000>if you want to know what hell is, try to draw every known cargo in firs/ecs/pbi with 4 loading stages and 4+ randomize variations per each
09:23<andythenorth>Dan is doing it already :)
09:24<andythenorth>not that much :P
09:24<andythenorth>I am figuring out code
09:24<andythenorth>I am trying to find laziest way to code it
09:24<V453000>more cargo sprites = better :)
09:25<alluke>funny how db set carries wood products as coal
09:26<V453000>not surprising :)
09:26<alluke>coal is kind of wood product too
09:26<V453000>idk what coffee is with nuts atm
09:26<V453000>andythenorth: what is the cargo class of coffee?
09:27<V453000>piece goods?
09:27<V453000>hm I guess nuts has it in crates then
09:27<V453000>could be worse :D
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09:29<andythenorth>coffee travels in sacks or crates
09:29<andythenorth>so piece
09:29<andythenorth>alluke: it's because wood products are chips used for power station fuel
09:29<V453000>(I originally wanted to put it in hoppers)
09:29<@planetmaker>V453000, I think you should transport it in cups :-)
09:30<V453000>hmf :) didnt draw maglev yet, anything can happen
09:30<V453000>well ships too
09:30<@planetmaker>or in pots
09:30<V453000>or inside rubberducks
09:31<@planetmaker>empty = yellow. full = brown :-P
09:31<V453000>no I would just cut them in half during loading
09:33<alluke>nuts needs coffee cup wagons indeed
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09:33<alluke>just loco hauling giant steaming coffee cups
09:37<alluke>wouldnt that be NUTS?
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09:40<V453000>draw it :)
09:41<V453000>if it will be in sufficient quality I might add it
09:41<alluke>dont care
09:42<alluke>i have higher priority stuff to do
09:42<V453000>see then it wouldnt be nuts enough :)
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09:51<AndreasB>[15:05:41] <@planetmaker> as said: bug in NewGRF
09:51<AndreasB>I looked on the picture attached to the bug
09:53<@planetmaker>good. And?
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09:54<@planetmaker>try without NewGRF. Try with that NewGRF. Check what sprites the NewGRF provides. And you'll have no other chance as to come to my conclusion
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10:05<andythenorth>so I render python objects into an nml representation
10:05<andythenorth>then nmlc rebuilds python objects from the nml
10:05<andythenorth>then turns them into nfo
10:05<andythenorth>if I was clever, I could cut out the middle step :P
10:05*andythenorth is not very clever
10:10*V453000 has no f clue
10:13*andythenorth wrote some tests
10:13<andythenorth>they caught some errors
10:13<andythenorth>how interesting
10:14<@planetmaker>makes your generator more understandable, andythenorth ;-)
10:15<DanMacK>Hey andy
10:15<andythenorth>lo DanMacK
10:15<andythenorth>have a new electric loco
10:15<andythenorth>80mph, 1,800hp, 1919
10:15<andythenorth>will be expensive
10:15<andythenorth>needs a name
10:15<DanMacK>was thinking more 60MPH, but 80 works
10:15<DanMacK>Still like Raven
10:16<andythenorth>done deal
10:16<@planetmaker>Black Raven ;-)
10:16<andythenorth>I looked at the NER express thing on the page with the EB1
10:16<andythenorth>I borrowed the stats etc
10:16<andythenorth>seems to fit about right
10:16<andythenorth>if you want superfast, or you're cheap, it's better to stick with steam
10:17<andythenorth>but the electric is good for general purpose gameplay role
10:17<DanMacK>Yeah, Bump up the TE, because it's all motor
10:22<AndreasB>Is it possible to get 100% station rating with steam trains?
10:23<andythenorth>use FIRS :P
10:23<andythenorth>that is not the answer you were looking for :D
10:29<Eddi|zuHause><planetmaker> V453000, I would grant that request. By giving -100000€ <-- or the BOFH way: "you now have 200000€ and no expenses" .p
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11:23<DanMacK>Lakie, how's it going?
11:24<Lakie>Not too badly, thinking about some tram bugs.
11:24<Lakie>How's your life going?
11:24<DanMacK>not too bad
11:24<DanMacK>unemployed right now, so enjoying the free time
11:25<alluke>now nothing can get between you and ottd
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11:26<Lakie>Oh, plenty can. :p
11:26<DanMacK>WB Andy
11:31<alluke>danmack, might you have the sprites of this laying out somewhere?
11:33<Lakie>Is it not on the Finnish FTP?
11:33<alluke>dont know
11:34<Lakie>Might be worth checking there, I know mot of the earlier GRF sprites should be there?
11:34<alluke>i dont even know if i have the access to that
11:34<alluke>whats the url
11:36<DanMacK>I have it somewhere
11:36<Lakie>I'm guessing maybe the Fo under Coaches?
11:37<alluke>it aint there
11:37<alluke>ive checked the site
11:37<alluke>and most of those sprites are outdated
11:37<Lakie>Hmm, is that from the teaser?
11:37<DanMacK>I think so
11:37<alluke>the steam beta
11:37<oskari89>That is from Early Years Beta
11:37<DanMacK>Do you have the grf?
11:38<DanMacK>decode it
11:38<Lakie>decompile it?
11:38<DanMacK>send it to me, I can do that :)
11:38<alluke>1 sec
11:38<oskari89>Put on your dropbox
11:38<alluke>no shit sherlock
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11:45<LordAro>/o Terkhen
11:46<DanMacK>Sent via PM
11:50<alluke>hey theres green vr1 too
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11:51<alluke>oskari89, why aint it in the current set?
11:52<DanMacK>cuz i havent redrawn uit
11:52<alluke>it looks fine to me
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11:55<DanMacK>Needs a bit of work
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13:33<andythenorth>keeping the same information in two data structures
13:33<andythenorth>never goes well :P
13:37<Eddi|zuHause>that's why i have exactly one data structure containing all the data, and generate the rest
13:40<andythenorth>I foolishly put some data into the nml templates, because it's easy to read there
13:40<andythenorth>but then I have to maintain the nml and the source data :P
13:40<andythenorth>silly AndreasB
13:41<andythenorth>silly andythenorth
13:41<andythenorth>doubly so :P
13:41<andythenorth>I am not used to someone else tab completing on 'and'
13:45<@DorpsGek>Commit by translators :: r25797 /trunk/src/lang (afrikaans.txt icelandic.txt) (2013-09-25 17:45:15 UTC)
13:45<@DorpsGek>-Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
13:45<@DorpsGek>afrikaans - 4 changes by ewaldhorn
13:45<@DorpsGek>icelandic - 3 changes by Stimrol
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13:54<andythenorth>dict.items() ftw
13:54<Xaroth|Work>what are you trying to hack this time :P
13:55<andythenorth>"every home should have one"
14:04<Supercheese>planetmaker: Sorry, was sleeping. I don't really have a preference one way or the other, but they should be made consistent
14:05<frosch123>i like camelcase :)
14:14<andythenorth>where did DanMacK go :P
14:14*andythenorth has questions
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14:14<andythenorth>are we +1 or -1 to wagon running costs?
14:15<V453000>cost doesnt matter really
14:16<V453000>but it does make sense
14:16<V453000>after all, wagons are what make money, not engines
14:16<frosch123>free engines, expensive wagons :p
14:16<AndreasB>trains are costly enough
14:16<V453000>I actually did intend to do something like that originally frosch123 :)
14:16<frosch123>how is something costly if it makes 20x income compared to running cost?
14:17<frosch123>even tracks are kind of cheaper than roads
14:17<frosch123>because you can remove them with income
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15:10<Pinkbeast>I like wagon running costs
15:10<andythenorth>mine are currently $12 / year :P
15:15<Eddi|zuHause>my wagons have running costs, but to this day there was 0 effort to balance them
15:15<matkum>how to actually balance running costs?
15:15<matkum>replacing them by a new model?
15:15<@Alberth>don't bother :)
15:15<Eddi|zuHause>the "express" trains are supposed to have higher running costs
15:17<@planetmaker>frosch123, so you prefer MightyMover over Mightymover?
15:17<@Alberth>looks better as vehicle type name, imho
15:17<@planetmaker>so be it
15:20<@DorpsGek>Commit by planetmaker :: r25798 /trunk/src/lang (51 files in 2 dirs) (2013-09-25 19:20:15 UTC)
15:20<@DorpsGek>-Fix [FS#5765]: Consistent spelling of MightyMover vehicles
15:20<@planetmaker>^ there
15:22<frosch123>sed training for pm :)
15:22<@planetmaker>I had quite a bit more sed-training with the not yet finished attempt to get japanese trainset use NML lang files :D
15:23<frosch123>you are doing japanese stuff now? :o
15:23<@planetmaker>cat nfo/strings_de.pnfo \
15:23<@planetmaker> | sed 's/[\t ]*\"//' \
15:23<@planetmaker> | sed ':a;N;$!ba;/\\n\"/s/\\n\" *\n//g' \
15:23<@planetmaker> | sed 's/\" 00 *$//g' \
15:23<@planetmaker> | sed ':a;N;$!ba;/\/\/\([0-9A-F]\{2\}\)/s/\/\/\([0-9A-F]\{2\}\)[\t ]*\n/STR_OPENTTD_D1\1 :/g' \
15:23<@planetmaker> | sed 's/[\t ]*00[\t ]*$//' \
15:23<@planetmaker> | sed ':a;N;$!ba;/\/\/\([0-9A-F]\{2\}\)/s/\/\/\([0-9A-F]\{2\}\):.*\n/STR_D1\1 :/g' \
15:23<@planetmaker> > de.txt
15:23<frosch123>what percetange of newgrf are you involved? :p
15:23<frosch123>90% ?
15:23<@planetmaker>I don't want to know :-)
15:24<frosch123>likely as much as zuu with scripts :)
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15:25<@planetmaker>I just thought that it'll be cool to give that NewGRF translations...
15:25<frosch123>btw. you can also use -f option to read a script from file :p
15:25<@planetmaker>more complicated for that than it initially looked
15:25<@planetmaker>yes, I know
15:25<@planetmaker>but it really need be separated here... with -f the result was - for some reason - different
15:26<@planetmaker>probably it's a matter of how it's sequenced
15:26<frosch123>yeah, you seem to do stuff with \n :)
15:27<@planetmaker>I need to concatenate lines. And split lines
15:27<@planetmaker>Depending on how they're shaped :D
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15:34<@Alberth>wouldn't python be easier?
15:34<@Alberth>at least it wouldn't look so much like random punctation :)
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15:36<frosch123>you mean it would look boring? :p
15:37<@planetmaker>Alberth, yes it might be.
15:37<@planetmaker>but ^ would not look that dreadful :-P
15:37<@Alberth>I once write a converter of assembly code in sed, which was about a page A4 like that :)
15:37<@planetmaker>haha :-)
15:38<@Alberth>but I had much less words :p
15:38<@planetmaker>and it was like usual. It started with one line. And then another etc...
15:38<@planetmaker>and I ended up with that. It works fine. And then I discovered there's strings in two other files
15:38<@planetmaker>which need yet another way to be converted :D
15:39<@Alberth>and so it explodes in size :)
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15:39<@planetmaker>so the initial idea of having a quick way to add translations collapsed, yes
15:39<frosch123>i think sed is one of the closest things to raw turing machines
15:42<@planetmaker>raw sed is as understandable as raw nfo, though ;-)
15:44<Eddi|zuHause>you should try commented sed than :p
15:45<Eddi|zuHause>frosch123: sed is not turing-complete, however...
15:45<frosch123>sure it is
15:46<Eddi|zuHause>you need an iterated sed for that :)
15:46<frosch123>sed has labels, jumps, even conditional jumps
15:46<frosch123>step up your sed knowledge :)
15:47<frosch123>if-loops are perfectly fine in sed
15:50<@planetmaker>Eddi|zuHause, just look at what I pasted. It has labels, and conditional jumps ;-)
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16:32<LordAro>Poll: gcc/clang/special-compiler version?
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16:39<LordAro>14? :L
16:39<@Rubidium>how the hell can I give a version for a random compiler?
16:40<@Rubidium>anyhow... clang is... uhm... not nice:
16:42<LordAro>ouch :(
16:42<LordAro>maybe you should raise the issue upstream?
16:43<LordAro>oh, and by typing "gcc -v" and similar
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16:44<LordAro>oh, and btw, clang 3.3 runs that program fine :)
16:45<@Rubidium>Debian clang version 3.3-9 (branches/release_33) (based on LLVM 3.3)
16:46<LordAro>"clang version 3.3 (tags/RELEASE_33/final)"
16:46<LordAro>arch linux
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16:47<@Rubidium>therefore... I report the bug to Debian. If I do it to upstream, they'll just complain I didn't use the vanilla clang
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16:48<LordAro>fair enough :L
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16:49<@Rubidium>and I doubt tcc or pcc can compile openttd ;)
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16:52<LordAro>unlikely :)
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19:13<Eddi|zuHause>hm... seems like half the internet just disappeared...
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---Logclosed Thu Sep 26 00:00:37 2013