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#openttd IRC Logs for 2013-09-28

---Logopened Sat Sep 28 00:00:40 2013
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03:38*Rubidium desperately needs that day length patch, or rather a year length patch
03:40<@Rubidium>too bad I haven't been able to port it to real life yet :(
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03:41<Supercheese>If you manage that, sign me up :)
03:42*Rubidium would vote for increasing the number of days in a month. That seems most benificial; more months == more monthly payments for rent and such
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05:10<Malinux->is there a tool to edit newgrfs? I use the DACH Train set 0.3.0 and want to reduce running costs as they in my opinion is too high
05:10<Malinux->there is no paramenter for running costs
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05:17<AndreasB>Malinux-: Dont make enough on the trains?
05:17<AndreasB>I see trains that make 2-300 000£ per run
05:20<@planetmaker>Malinux-, in that case, simply use a base cost newgrf which allows you to generally change costs for various things
05:20<@planetmaker>alternatively get the source code, modify, and re-compile
05:20<@planetmaker>the source code of the DACH set that is. But... for this, I'd not recommend that
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05:22<Malinux->planetmaker: I could check out base cost newgrf, but don't think I can change running cost specially for that trainset
05:22<AndreasB>how high is it?
05:22<@planetmaker>you can generally change running costs for trains
05:23<Malinux->planetmaker: yeah, in general ,but I don't want to change for the other trains, as their running costs is not a problem
05:24<AndreasB>Malinux-: how high is it?
05:24<Malinux->If I make a train with length 20 and sbb-live-stock wagon the running cost pr. year is 3,699.900$ pr. year
05:25<Malinux->that's too much....
05:25<AndreasB>and how much does the train make?
05:25<AndreasB>20 000 000$per year?
05:25<Malinux->not sure yet, I will check it out. I have tried earlier as the wagons have high capacity and noticed it was a lot of minus
05:26<AndreasB>Try not making them that long before you need it? idk :3 good luck anyways
05:26<@planetmaker>bad luck, if you don't want to change them generally, can't change it on the others and don't have the source. you can de-compile, modify hex codes and re-compile. But... good luck there :-) Otherwise... just live with it :D
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05:26<Malinux->one wagon has running cost of 88436$ pr. year
05:27<AndreasB>But.. The question is
05:27<AndreasB>How much can that one wagon make?
05:27<AndreasB>If it costs 1 dollar, and makes 14
05:27<Malinux->planetmaker: yeah. I think it's impossible for me to edit hexcode as it's like doing thing as blind I guess
05:27<AndreasB>then thats OK
05:27<AndreasB>if it costs 90 000 and makes 900 000
05:27<Malinux->AndreasB: I can make one such train and check out what it generates :)
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05:28<AndreasB>man i hate sneezing
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05:48<Malinux->from transfer station to factory: running costs: 669000$ income 1098000$.
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05:48<Malinux->running cost for both directions combined will be about 1338000$ making total income negative
05:57<Malinux->hm.... I found the source :D
05:57<AndreasB>both directions??
05:58<Malinux->that was one direction including income
05:58<AndreasB>but considering it has to return
05:58<Malinux->yeah... that made it go to negative
05:58<Malinux->it was som delay too because of high trafic
05:58<AndreasB>you dont think running costs are higher when loaded?=
05:58<AndreasB>There is no such thing asz hgih traffix
05:59<AndreasB>only too little tracks/stations
05:59<Malinux->well. it was trafic jam, as I have done some stupid things, but is fixed now
06:00<Malinux->In source code, I found this:
06:00<Malinux->how does those numbers work? Can I just lower the value?
06:00<Malinux->and then build from source?
06:01<Malinux->looks like each model is represented in source code with their own running_cost factor and different values
06:02<juzza1>yes, range is 0..255
06:03<Malinux->so how does the value work?
06:03<Malinux->what cost does 0 represent?
06:03<Malinux->or 255?
06:03<AndreasB>Tried googling?
06:05<AndreasB>I guess theres a base cost
06:05<Malinux->I found something when googling
06:05<AndreasB>Then a factor
06:05<Malinux->description: multiplier to the base running costs
06:06<juzza1>well the calculation is somethin like this for a diesel train: running cost = (running_cost_factor * 5200 * 2^(basecost multiplier)) / 128
06:06<juzza1>looks ugly like that
06:06<juzza1>basecost multiplier for default trains is 0
06:06<juzza1>(for the set you are using it's probably something different)
06:06<Malinux->ah.. juzza1 thanx. That clears things up :)
06:07<Malinux->in the source I see values as 150 and higher
06:07<Malinux->now I have to identify the car I want to change the values for :)
06:08<Malinux->or just put all to 0
06:09<juzza1>you could also search for the basecost value in the source
06:10<juzza1>the wagons probably use one of those, since there is no separate value for wagons
06:11<juzza1>basecost multiplier, rather
06:11<AndreasB>Malinux-: What would..
06:11<AndreasB>Dont put it to 0 xD
06:11<AndreasB>whats the fun in that? :D
06:16<Malinux->juzza1: yeah. I found it
06:16<Malinux->AndreasB: is 0 no running costs at all? I will have running costs, but not very high
06:17<Malinux->maybe 1 means multiplied with 1?
06:17<AndreasB>[12:06:11] <juzza1> well the calculation is somethin like this for a diesel train: running cost = (running_cost_factor * 5200 * 2^(basecost multiplier)) / 128
06:17<Malinux->and 0 will be multiplied with 0 means none :S
06:17<Malinux->AndreasB: ah ok
06:17<AndreasB>set it to 10 then
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06:18<AndreasB>or... something
06:19<juzza1>the value 5200 is also different depending on PR_RUNNING_TRAIN_XXX used, 4800 for steam, 5200 diesel and 5600 for electric
06:19<juzza1>actually the other way around, 5600 steam and 4800 electric
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06:22<AndreasB>how is distance calculated
06:22<AndreasB> It is computed by adding the differences in x and y tiles (manhattan distance), not straight-line distance
06:22<AndreasB>So there is smart rail design, and wasting time design, right?
06:23<AndreasB>to achieve same distance
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06:25<AndreasB>There is no point in making the train go up to edge, then north? Because going straight across diagonally would yield the same distance?
06:30<AndreasB>what? :D
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06:47<AndreasB> openttd ftw :P Only, I should have had 2 locos :(
06:47<AndreasB>its way too heavy lol
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06:48<AndreasB>Went down to 18kmh because of a little hill :S
06:54<frosch123>livestreaming ottd :p
06:54<AndreasB>Soon sold off, so
06:54<@Alberth>oh, that's still visibly moving :)
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06:55<Malinux->wow. it eh, it works :D
06:55<AndreasB>Do you think 2 locos will do it?
06:55<Malinux->running costs is 8038$ pr year, pr. wagon
06:56<Malinux->or 564390$ pr. year.
06:58<AndreasB>I dont think 2 locos is enough lol
07:08<AndreasB>Are there any differences in having loco in front/rear?
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07:12<frosch123>somewhat, usually the engine is heavier than a wagon, so if they directly follow each other, they are more likely to be on a slope at the same time
07:12<frosch123>thus increasing effective weight of the train
07:12<AndreasB>but does openttd take that into account?
07:13<frosch123>the weight on a slope counts yes
07:13<AndreasB>should I move the 2 extra locos to the back?
07:13<frosch123>you can see that your trains slows down when reaching the slope
07:13<frosch123>but gets faster again once the engine has passed it
07:15<AndreasB>so it should be faster with them distributed properly
07:19<Dozer>Wait, you can have more than 1 loco on a trainset?
07:19<Dozer>Oh nice, didn't know.
07:23<V453000>soooo andythenotrh how is steam for ships going :)
07:23<andythenorth>it's bollocks :P
07:23<andythenorth>I stopped asking for ponies a while back :)
07:24<andythenorth>there was a conversation that went something like this...
07:24<andythenorth>"can I have steam for ships"
07:24<V453000>go see new STEAMING ships in nuts :P
07:24<andythenorth>"probably, what's the spec"
07:24<andythenorth>"yes but what's the spec"
07:25<andythenorth>I'd like to see you do two funnels :P
07:25<andythenorth>one each side
07:25<V453000>wtf is that funnel
07:26<V453000>fucking tunnel?
07:26<andythenorth>nothing so interesting :P
07:28<V453000>oh like fucking chimney
07:28<andythenorth>yeah that
07:29<AndreasB>o.O I didnt expect tha trmany people to join my server lol
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09:22<AndreasB>Hey guys
09:23<AndreasB>Im trying to do rcon <pass> move 226 6
09:23<AndreasB>but I get error
09:23<AndreasB>but both are valid
09:23<frosch123>try with quotes
09:23<frosch123>rcon <pass> "move 226 6"
09:28<AndreasB>how do i reset entire company? o.O
09:28<frosch123>stopcompany or so
09:28<frosch123>stopcompany <number>
09:29<frosch123>no idea :p
09:29<AndreasB>no such comamdn
09:29<AndreasB>resetengines doesnt work
09:29<frosch123>resetengines is likely not allowed in multiplayer
09:29<frosch123>and it would do something completely different anyway :p
09:30<AndreasB>resetcompany worked
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10:23<Takumo>Hi All!
10:23<Takumo>Dumb Question that I've not found an answer for: Has anyone developed a Web interface for the OpenTTDd?
10:23<@Alberth>no idea
10:24<@Alberth>nobody published one as open source project afaik
10:24<AndreasB>Whats the point of elextric vs diesel?
10:24<AndreasB>It costs more, but doesnt go faster
10:24<Takumo>The server hasn't got any form of API does it? So I'd have to pull some tricks with the console wouldn't I?
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10:25<@Alberth>there is an API, and there are a few frameworks that make that api easier available afaik
10:26<Takumo>Well maybe that can be my TimeWasteProject number 3.
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10:26<Takumo>Will check that out frosch123
10:27<@Alberth>Takumo: please consider contributing to something existing
10:28<Takumo>I will do, I didn't know if there was anything existing out there
10:30<Takumo>That said what does exist doesn't look so great, might have to start a new project, preferably on an easier-to-access platform
10:31<Takumo>that said if there is an API, knocking up a neat little Rails app or something to interface with it shouldn't be too hard
10:32<frosch123> <- api
10:33<frosch123>but, well, there are existing libraries for at least python and java
10:33<frosch123>irrc even one for c/c++
10:33<Takumo>and if it doesn't exist I'll work on a Ruby one :)
10:33<frosch123>i don't remember anyone using ruby
10:34<Taede>i think someone thought about starting one
10:34<Taede>not sure if it ever got started
10:34<Takumo>Well a Ruby OpenTTD Library should be faily straightforward
10:34<Takumo>package it as a Gem that works with Rails, build an interface around it with authentication and such
10:35<frosch123>i think you are the first one in this channel to mention ruby in a positive way :p
10:35<andythenorth>nothing wrong with ruby
10:35<Takumo>Nothing wrong with most languages, except Visual Basic :P
10:35*Taede has no experience of ruby
10:36<andythenorth>it's not one of those 'argue about code pointlessly' days :)
10:36<frosch123>yup, today is a day of esports trolling
10:36<Takumo>Javascript is O.K. I don't get all the people wetting themselves over Nodejs though
10:37<frosch123>javascript :p
10:37<andythenorth>"nodejs allows even incompetent programmers to write high-perfomance apps"
10:37<frosch123>andythenorth: sounds like a huge target group
10:37<Takumo>I link to think of myself as a competant polygot programmer
10:38<Takumo>and my javascript code sucks, hard.
10:40<Takumo>I thought all the incompetant programmers used Java, because it pays well and Eclipse can fix all your mistakes.
10:41<andythenorth>there's loads of fun trolling around node
10:41<andythenorth>like this:
10:42<Takumo>andythenorth: Don't forget to troll the noder's tools of choice
10:42<Takumo>i.e. MongoDB (CSV File on a network share much?)
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12:17<andythenorth>it's like old times
12:18<alluke>what is
12:18<andythenorth>the past
12:20<alluke>no shit
12:37<AndreasB>coomplicated stuff
12:44<andythenorth>V453000: drawing these pixels takes bloody ages
12:44<andythenorth>I made tea, started fixing a ship, now the tea is cold :P
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13:45<@DorpsGek>Commit by translators :: r25800 /trunk/src/lang (english_AU.txt korean.txt) (2013-09-28 17:45:15 UTC)
13:45<@DorpsGek>-Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
13:45<@DorpsGek>english_AU - 5 changes by mrtux
13:45<@DorpsGek>korean - 5 changes by telk5093
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14:26<andythenorth>pikka's grf apparently contains random code
14:26<andythenorth>how interesting
14:26<andythenorth>if the code is random, the grf probably isn't savegame safe
14:26<andythenorth>nor MP safe :P
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14:38<frosch123>andythenorth: when i open the off-topic forum, it comes up with random glibberish
14:38<andythenorth>I think #tycoon does the same
14:38<andythenorth>maybe it's just my client handling unicode badly or something :P
14:39*andythenorth wonders where that pony thread went
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15:02<DanMacK>Hey all
15:05<andythenorth>lo DanMacK
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15:39<andythenorth>DanMacK: ^
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16:11<@Alberth>nice andy
16:18<__ln__>btw, seems that Apple has dropped GCC from Xcode 5, gcc and g++ are just aliases for clang(++).
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16:53<__ln__>configure --help --> "--with-liblzma[=liblzma.a] enables liblzma support"
16:54<__ln__>but configure tries to execute the provided argument and says it is invalid. no shit.
16:54<__ln__>so how does that switch actually work?
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17:31<Supercheese>Hmm, I wonder if there are any other games translated into Latin I can borrow translations from...
17:32<Supercheese>I found Legend of Zelda in Latin, but I was hoping for more computer-related terms
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17:35<@Rubidium>what kind of computer terms do you need?
17:35<@Rubidium>you can always translate words literally ;)
17:36<@Rubidium>yields awful words though, at least in Dutch
17:37<Supercheese>Well, if someone had translated e.g. Age of Empires into Latin (which I'm surprised I haven't found to have happened yet), it would be very helpful
17:37<Supercheese>__ln__: gratias tibi!
17:39<Supercheese>I'm particularly interested in what others have translated "click and drag" to
17:39<Supercheese>I went "deprime traheque"
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18:21<Wolf01> nice
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18:29<Supercheese>Hmm, I disagree with the heavy use of first-person conjugations there
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21:46<Flygon>Is this the right place to ask really silly art related questions?
21:47<Supercheese>Sure, why not
21:48<Flygon>I have absolutely zero idea what I am doing
21:48<Flygon> Is this on the right track? (excuse the pun)
21:48<Supercheese>It'd be better to use a template
21:48<Flygon>A template? Like a pre-existing sprite?
21:49<Supercheese>I talked about them here:
21:49<Flygon>Oh, no, I meant more if I got the style right at all x.x
21:50<Flygon>The whole sheet's just a giant scratchpad atm
21:52<Flygon>I've never been a particulary great sprite artist, nor do I have a clue how to handle corrogated steel
21:56<DanMacK>It's a PITA
21:57<Supercheese>keep at it, look at the many other sprites drawn by other artists for inspiration
21:57<Supercheese>I personally do not draw anything form scratch, I render from models
21:57<Supercheese>or borrow sprites
21:59<DanMacK>I've drawn from scratch for years
22:00<DanMacK>but I'll still borrow sprites
22:01<Flygon>Sorry for the delay, was making lunch
22:01<Flygon>Arf, sorry if I sound frustrated
22:02<Flygon>I'm far more used to working on large sweeping pieces x3
22:02<Flygon>But, yeah, I'll have to look at other models x
22:02<Flygon>Thank you, for the help
22:02<DanMacK>What's the prototype you're drawing?
22:03<Flygon>A Comeng from the Melbourne Train network
22:04<Flygon>It seemed deceptively simple enough
22:04<Flygon>Could have been worse. The Hitachi has no outer livery to hide the sheer corragatedness with :p
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23:26<Flygon>Oh man
23:26<Flygon>Isometrics hurt my brain
23:28<AndreasB>yey for keeping up with coal and wood for the moment
23:28<AndreasB>darnit, i had top open my mouth
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23:30<AndreasB>3.7k passengers :(
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23:50<AndreasB>819 passengers!
---Logclosed Sun Sep 29 00:00:41 2013