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#openttd IRC Logs for 2013-09-29

---Logopened Sun Sep 29 00:00:41 2013
00:04<AndreasB>lol,. you fix one thing
00:04<AndreasB>then coal = 6.2k
00:07-!-Stimrol [~Stimrol@46-239-219-51.tal.is] has joined #openttd
00:08<Supercheese>c'est la OTTD
00:09<AndreasB>tiired -.-
00:10*Flygon gives AndreasB one of them coffee things
00:12<AndreasB>already had energy drink
00:12<AndreasB>but 6 am
00:12<Supercheese>!
00:12<AndreasB>coal on its way down
00:12<AndreasB>5.5k
00:12<Supercheese>coal story bro
00:12<AndreasB>Annoying that i cant choose 2 years on autorenew
00:13<AndreasB>only 12 months before max age :S
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03:15<sla_ro|master>epic, playing online OpenTTD from an android XD
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04:10<andythenorth>o/
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04:11<Supercheese>howdy
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06:20<Wolf01>hi o/
06:20<@Alberth>hi hi
06:32<Flygon>Listen, I must ask
06:32<Flygon>https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/2651992/Art/Other/comengscratchpad.png Is it just me, or do I truly have no idea how to articulate a train?
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07:39<andythenorth>randomised buy menu sprites - too odd?
07:43<V453000>yeah I think so
07:44<andythenorth>yeah
07:44<V453000>purchase menu sprites are like illustratory icons for the vehicle, they should stay always teh same I think
07:44<V453000>except CC recolouring
07:44<andythenorth>but then the vehicle itself is randomised :P
07:45<V453000>sure, doesnt matter :) the purchase menu thing doesnt need to fit 1:1
07:45<V453000>what is randomized on the vehicle?
07:45<V453000>color?
07:45<V453000>you could make a e.g. 4-color train sprite to the purchase menu to demonstrate all the possible options
07:46<andythenorth>shape
07:46<andythenorth>can look like a completely different ship
07:46<V453000>uhm
07:46<V453000>isnt that wtf?
07:46<andythenorth>kind of yes
07:46<andythenorth>it might suck
07:46<andythenorth>dunno
07:47<V453000>why not just have 2 different models of ship? :D
07:47<andythenorth>no difference in stats
07:47<andythenorth>kind of pointless :P
07:47<V453000>not at all
07:47<V453000>e.g. slugs have no difference in stats, one is CC and one is random rainbow colored
07:48<andythenorth>well let's say that, for this set, that ship has sailed ;)
07:48<andythenorth>the point of the set is 30 ships
07:48<andythenorth>and none the same
07:48<andythenorth>there is a joke about asking for directions to get somewhere, and the answer it to start somewhere else :D
07:49<V453000>hm
07:50<V453000>well I understand randomizing Parts, like amount of funnels, color, etc details, but whole ship is really strange
07:50<andythenorth>V453000: https://dev.openttdcoop.org/attachments/download/5478/santorini_ship.png
07:51<V453000>dont all of your ships look similar to that? :P
07:51<andythenorth>no
07:51<andythenorth>they mostly got deleted
07:51<V453000>:D oh
07:51<andythenorth>everything in FISH was same same same
07:51<V453000>y
07:51<andythenorth>but
07:52<andythenorth>these are same ship :| https://dev.openttdcoop.org/attachments/download/5479/altamira_ship.png
07:52<andythenorth>also
07:52<V453000>honestly that is wtfconfusing
07:52<andythenorth>multiple-contributors
07:52<andythenorth>is problem :P
07:52<V453000>needs strong project leader ruling mercilessly with iron hand
07:53<andythenorth>that means project leader has to do all drawing :P
07:53<V453000>WHERE IS THE PROBLEM
07:53<V453000>?
07:53<V453000>:D
07:53<andythenorth>also https://dev.openttdcoop.org/attachments/download/5480/cumbrae_ship.png
07:53<andythenorth>same ship
07:54<@Alberth>looks like you can compress cargo :)
07:54<V453000>I would use one of them, not both
07:55<andythenorth>unrealistic
07:56<AndreasB>is simutrans anything like openttd?
07:57<@Alberth>they both are about building transport facilities, yes
07:57<AndreasB>ok
07:58<AndreasB>do you know major differences?
07:58<@Alberth>not really, it used to have cargo-dist, but that's not different any more
07:59<AndreasB>I see they have nice texture packs : p
07:59<andythenorth>problem with ships is changing the hull
07:59<andythenorth>doesn't work
07:59<AndreasB>you making a ship andythenorth?
08:00<@Alberth>AndreasB: best way to find out is just to play it a while, and see what you like/dislike
08:01<andythenorth>V453000: see - this one makes sense https://dev.openttdcoop.org/attachments/download/5481/altamira_ship_2.png
08:01<@Alberth>preferences are usually highly personal anyway, so what you dislike maybe something that I like and vice versa
08:01<AndreasB>looking now
08:01<AndreasB>twas really different
08:01<V453000>yes that one is nice andythenorth
08:01<andythenorth>hmm
08:01<andythenorth>I know what needs to be done
08:01<andythenorth>some more bloody painting :P
08:01<@Alberth>AndreasB: looking different or being different?
08:01<V453000>.
08:02<AndreasB>no idea yet
08:02<AndreasB>the translation is... iffy
08:02<AndreasB>some words are german, some norwegian
08:02-!-KritiK [~Maxim@0001264a.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd
08:02<AndreasB>also there is no cargo
08:02-!-neli [micha@30-224.ftth.onsbrabantnet.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
08:02<@Alberth>yeah, the main user base is in Germany
08:03<@Alberth>AndreasB: it's cargo-dist so you need to take the cargo where the industry wants it
08:03<AndreasB>but the airplane part was.. complicated
08:03<@Alberth>hmm, didn't you have to setup routes and such beforehand?
08:04<V453000>use englush and you get no german/norwegian problems :)
08:04<frosch123>most simutrans devs have a ottd background, so there are in fact a lot comparisons between simutrans and ottd from a simutrans pov
08:04<AndreasB>even the stations are customizeablew
08:04-!-neli [micha@30-224.ftth.onsbrabantnet.nl] has joined #openttd
08:05<andythenorth>hmm
08:05<andythenorth>time to do some chores
08:05<AndreasB>chores? o.O
08:05<andythenorth>can someone repaint these ships? o_O
08:05<andythenorth>while I do chores :P
08:06<frosch123>if i need them, i also have chores to do :p
08:07<AndreasB>simytrans is not for me
08:07<AndreasB>too damn complicated
08:07<@Alberth>like OpenTTD is not complicated :p
08:08<AndreasB>Not in comparison
08:08<AndreasB>Openttd is like mspaint
08:08<AndreasB>simutrans is like photoshop
08:08<frosch123>i guess in ottd you can get away with most complicatedness
08:08<frosch123>ottd is more modular, you can add parts or ignore them
08:08<frosch123>in simuscape you decide for one pack, and then you are screwed to it :p
08:09<V453000>oh god frosch what have you said
08:10<frosch123>something wrong?
08:11<frosch123>it's a known fact that all simutrans devs pretend to know ottd, but no ottd dev really knows simutrans
08:11<frosch123>or, you mean the simuscape/simutrans mix up :p
08:11<V453000>yes :D
08:11<frosch123>yeah, i always confuse them
08:11<frosch123>in both ways :p
08:11<V453000>both aer unimportant :P
08:11<V453000>also AndreasB I dont get how can you call openttd simple if you saw our savegames :D
08:12<frosch123>esp. if someone asks on the forums what they are, and the someone answers wrt. the other one, it gets really funny :p
08:12<V453000>forums are really funny in general
08:12<frosch123>anyway, my simuscape experience is 7 years old
08:12<V453000>y
08:12<V453000>lol
08:13<frosch123>and from then i remember the minimap being rotates 45° compared to viewport
08:13<frosch123>and annoying pedestrians everywhere
08:13<frosch123>and a default economy with something like 64 cargos, and being completely lost in what to transport where :p
08:14<frosch123>so, well, i never got into simuscape :)
08:14<frosch123>err, trans :p
08:14<andythenorth>sounds like FIRS
08:14<V453000>too bad I am banned on simuscape :P
08:14<andythenorth>default 64 :P
08:14<andythenorth>do we have 64 cargos?
08:15<frosch123>V453000: maybe i should configure my irc client with a regex
08:15<frosch123>s/simuscape/simutrans/ on all output
08:16<V453000>lol
08:16<andythenorth>simu*
08:18<V453000>simuwtf
08:19<andythenorth>although I did consider moving the IH release thread to Simuscape from tt-forums
08:19<andythenorth>quite seriously
08:20<V453000>L
08:20<V453000>O
08:20<V453000>L
08:20<V453000>that basically means why have release thread at all XD
08:20<AndreasB>lol, I noticed openttd was removing companies that was in use -.-
08:20<AndreasB>when people left the company, and it was passworded
08:20<andythenorth>V453000: well I kind of haven't bothered with the thread for any further discussion ;)
08:21-!-TWerkhoven is now known as Taede
08:21<V453000>OH TWerkhoven you hideous bastard :D
08:21<AndreasB>How excactly do I replace trains easily when they are 2-3 year old?
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08:22<V453000>replace or renew
08:23<@Alberth>mostly not, other than by hand
08:23<AndreasB>Why cant I replace with same model?
08:24<@Alberth>"replace with same model" is renew
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08:24<Elukka>i'd say openttd is a lot easier to get into than simutrans
08:24<frosch123>because the trigger criterions for renew and replace are different
08:24<Elukka>you don't need to do any of the complicated stuff to start out
08:25<AndreasB>Alberth: How can I renew every 2-3 years?
08:25<Elukka>you can get into it very gradually
08:25<AndreasB>I dont get openttd
08:25<AndreasB>Trains last 20-25 years
08:25<@Alberth>AndreasB: like I said, manually
08:25<AndreasB>but station requires 0 years to give top station rating
08:25<Elukka>there's an option to make them last forever which i do since i don't like to have to manage that
08:26<@Alberth>AndreasB: perhaps you care too much about the rating?
08:26<AndreasB>no
08:28<@Alberth>imho messing around with optimal rating is less optimal than connecting more industries or cities
08:28<andythenorth>ignore the rating :P
08:29<@Alberth>use FIRS :p
08:29<AndreasB>It wont grow if you do that
08:29<AndreasB>96% now
08:29<AndreasB>95, dang
08:29<andythenorth>is 100% even achievable?
08:29*andythenorth thought not
08:29<AndreasB>yes
08:29<AndreasB>I've had 100 once
08:29<AndreasB>96% transported coal, 1422 tonnes
08:29<AndreasB>dang, production went down
08:29<@Alberth>you know you are playing openttd, where the goal is to build a transport network, right?
08:30<AndreasB>:D
08:30<AndreasB>Dude
08:30<AndreasB>To build what I have built there
08:30<AndreasB>and be me
08:30<AndreasB>I should get an award
08:30<AndreasB>But it does have some flaws
08:30<@Alberth>I am sure you can provide one for yourself
08:30<AndreasB>lol
08:31<AndreasB>i think 96% is max without maglev
08:31*andythenorth was bored of all that rating crap, hence FIRS production mechanics :P
08:31<AndreasB>or the other one
08:31<AndreasB>explain FIRS
08:31<andythenorth>hmm
08:31<andythenorth>someone *should* explain FIRS :P
08:31<AndreasB>97% transported ;D
08:31<andythenorth>FIRS increases primary production using delivered supplies
08:32<@Alberth>it's magic!
08:32<AndreasB>so the more you puck up, and deliver
08:32<AndreasB>the more it produces?
08:32<andythenorth>kind of
08:32<AndreasB>pick up*
08:32<andythenorth>it's easy to increase one or two industries, but if you connect more stuff, then you have an interesting connectedness problem
08:32<andythenorth>one train jam can bork a whole network for years
08:32<andythenorth>just like the real global economy :P
08:33<andythenorth>also there is a station rating parameter
08:33<AndreasB>Theres a limit to how many trains you can have on one track, haha
08:33<V453000>5000
08:33<@Alberth>ah, the real plan surfaces, andy was building an economy simulation :D
08:33<andythenorth>station rating parameter is there because TTD mechanics suited small maps, and never using ships :P
08:33<AndreasB>but I think the problem is the station
08:33<AndreasB>V453000: HELL NO, a lot less than that on ONE rail
08:33<AndreasB>feeding a station
08:33<andythenorth>FIRS parameter allows longer pickups delays, or 100% (cheating)
08:33<V453000>not true
08:33<@Alberth>AndreasB: depends on how long that rail is
08:33<AndreasB>Oh really
08:34<AndreasB>I wanna see you fit 5000 trains onto 20 squares of rail
08:34<@Alberth>who said anything about 20 squares?
08:34<andythenorth>herp, time to do chores
08:34<andythenorth>bye
08:34<AndreasB>If you have a rail goi
08:34<@Alberth>bye
08:34<AndreasB>andythenor
08:34<AndreasB>how old are you?
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08:34<AndreasB>chores?
08:34<AndreasB>I did that when I was 10.
08:35<@Alberth>no worries, when you are married, you'll get them again
08:35<AndreasB>Married?
08:35<AndreasB>Right.. You live in wonderland?
08:36<AndreasB>What makes you think I wanna take a cannon, and shoot myself in the face?
08:36<AndreasB>I dont care for shitty little annoying noise-making kids
08:36<AndreasB>and I sure as hell aint planning on getting married
08:37<AndreasB>I plan to leave this earth before I'm 40.
08:37<@peter1138>Chores, things like laundry, washing up, tidying, maintenance...
08:37<AndreasB>Naah
08:37<AndreasB>They can wait
08:37<AndreasB>Motorcycle comes first
08:37<AndreasB>ride it like you stole it
08:38<AndreasB>Thats why once I get my place cleaned up, I'm hiring some lady to clean it
08:38<AndreasB>or keep it clean
08:38<V453000>and you are 16 I assume
08:39*fjb is thinking the same.
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09:07-!-Flygon_ is now known as Flygon
09:07<Flygon>Ehh
09:08<Flygon>Why not take the real wild side of life
09:08<Flygon>And ride a Bicycle
09:08<Flygon>Retrofitted with a lawnmower engine?
09:11<frosch123>it's hard to draw that
09:11<frosch123>there are barely a few pixels for the bicycle itself
09:12<@Alberth>nah, just lots of thick horizontal lines expressing the speed of the bicycle :p
09:15<V453000>nobody talked about 1:1 scale frosch :D
09:17<AndreasB>ofc course 1:1
09:18<AndreasB>2:1 is better
09:19<AndreasB>-c
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10:01-!-planetmaker is "Ingo von Borstel" on #openttd #openttdcoop.devzone #oftc @+#openttdcoop +#openDune @+#openttdcoop.nightly +#openttd.dev @+#openttdcoop.dev @+#openttdcoop.stable @+#coopetition @+#wwottdgd
10:01-!-mode/#openttd [+o planetmaker] by ChanServ
10:01<@planetmaker>moin
10:02<@Alberth>o/ planetmaker
10:03<AndreasB>/nick DestroyerOfWorlds
10:07<AndreasB>What does one use if one wants to capture ingame chat?
10:07<AndreasB>Say like !info etc
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10:12<@planetmaker>a programme which connects to admin port and logs commands
10:13<@planetmaker>and autopilot is not recommended ;-)
10:17<Japa>Working in a factory makes me want to set it up with a rail connection.
10:18<AndreasB>Hey guys, you heard about fårikål?
10:18<Flygon>I really gotta set this server to UTF
10:23<AndreasB>Are there any downsides to using pathfinder signals instead of one-way signals ?
10:23<AndreasB>Does it invoke any pathfinding? Does it use more resources?
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10:26<Japa>AndreasB, you have to re-learn how to use signals effectively.
10:26<Japa>It doesn't do any extra pathfinding that the trains don't already use anyway.
10:29<AndreasB>No I dont
10:29<AndreasB>I dont use all pathfinder signals
10:29<@peter1138>path signals
10:29<AndreasB>It was a question since one dude on my server, and others I see only use pathfinder signals
10:29<AndreasB>I only use those path signals where 1 track turns into 2 or more
10:30<AndreasB>then those small others
10:30<AndreasB>I do have some problems with big stations.. :D
10:30<AndreasB>Gotta go, dinnertime
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10:47<andythenorth>hmm
10:47<andythenorth>my kids are playing iOS version of this
10:47<andythenorth>https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.nimblebit.pockettrains&hl=en
10:47<andythenorth>really cute game
10:48<andythenorth>same developer released this too https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/id534220352?mt=12
10:49<V453000>looks pixel cute enough, make sure they dont lick it
10:49<andythenorth>I will
10:49<andythenorth>I need to help him get to Berlin
10:49<andythenorth>bbl
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11:33<bastu>Hello I have started a small private openttd for me and friend but i keep getting network-game sync failed when ever the simulation is running, if paused and building everything works fine.
11:33<bastu>Anyone who knows why this might happen?
11:34<@Alberth>running a patched openttd I guess?
11:34<bastu>I am running openttd-cargodest, yes
11:35<@Alberth>basically, multi-player works by each computer doing the same calculations locally
11:35<@Alberth>this reduces the amount of data that needs to be transfered
11:36<@Alberth>a desync happens when the computation results at one computer are different from the server
11:36<@Alberth>ie your computer has a different picture of the world then the computer of your friend
11:37<bastu>so it could be either the server or the client who does a miscalculation?
11:37<@Alberth>they are different. By definition, the server is always right :)
11:38<@Alberth>but that's just for defining what is right and what is wrong :)
11:38<@Alberth>but cargo-dest is really old, sure you are not running cargo-dist?
11:38<bastu>yes cargo-dist
11:39<@Rubidium>what version are you using exactly?
11:40<bastu>hmm.. can i run a rcon server command to see that? I downloaded the files from a file server with "millions" of versions, not sure what i ended up with
11:40<bastu>brb 40 mins, would love more info/help
11:44<@planetmaker>bastu, don't run a cargodist version, just all of you get the same nightly version of OpenTTD. It has cargodist included as well.
11:45<Flygon>Nightly is less buggy anyway
11:45<@Rubidium>there's no recon command. Though the server and client should have the same version; if they aren't, then the versions are even buggier. In any case, in the title bar in the main menu you'll find the version number. Alternatively the first line of openttd -h shows it as well
11:46-!-andythenorth [~Andy@cpc10-aztw26-2-0-cust867.18-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd
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11:47<DanMacK>Hey all
11:47<@planetmaker>hi andythenorth & DanMacK :-)
11:47<andythenorth>awesome
11:47<andythenorth>just about to pm you DanMacK
11:48<DanMacK>perfect timing lol
11:48<andythenorth>saves me typing at forums :)
11:48<DanMacK>exactly lol
11:48<Flygon>I love your name, DanMacK
11:49<DanMacK>lol, thanks - just first and half last name :P
11:53<Flygon>Better than my name :p
11:53<Flygon>Or at least, half my name
11:53<Flygon>And it's more original than my singular :B
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12:11<bastu>planetmaker oh that makes sense, can you link me to the archives? And how do i install nightlys on the linux server?
12:14<@planetmaker>www.openttd.org (see upper left)
12:15<V453000>rtfmmmm
12:15<bastu>ok tnx, can i close the current server and install over it on linux and just save the configs and such? or do I have to do something extra?
12:15<@planetmaker>config won't be overwritten. No need to save it.
12:16<@planetmaker>just install it as usual
12:16<bastu>ok i will give it a shot, tnx ill be back if i have more issues
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12:37<andythenorth>V453000: "widgets" :D http://www.pockettrainswiki.com/wiki/Cars
12:39<V453000>:O
12:39<V453000>fuck
12:40<andythenorth>that is the commercial game we should have made :)
12:40<V453000>no beer 0/10
12:41<V453000>wtf are the widgets
12:42<V453000>http://www.pockettrainswiki.com/w/images/1/1d/Solar_panels.png looks like it carries sprite sheet :D
12:42<@planetmaker>lol
12:43<V453000>ha there is ethanol
12:43<V453000>better than nothing
12:44<andythenorth>the game has crafting and shit to get new trains
12:44<andythenorth>you have to have enough parts and such
12:44<Eddi|zuHause>uhm... is the "arcade car" the room from maniac mansion?
12:46<@planetmaker>looks interesting, andythenorth :-)
12:48<Eddi|zuHause>and the tiki car looks like a tribute to monkey island :)
12:49<frosch123>they are cc-by-nc-sa, so make a guigrf of them :p
12:56<bastu>planetmaker I get version mismatch now, I copied over all files from the archive to ~/.openttd-cargodist/
12:57<bastu>and ran the openttd-cargodist -D
12:57<@Alberth>yeah, don't copy over old installations
12:58<bastu>hmm.. is the old saves no longer compatible?
12:58<@Alberth>the cargo-dist patch was never compatible with plain openttd afaik
12:59<bastu>makes sense
12:59<@planetmaker>well. the game is called openttd. not openttd-cargodist ;-)
13:00<Eddi|zuHause>yes, patches are (usually) not savegame compatible
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13:01<Eddi|zuHause>meaning you can usually load regular savegames in the patched build, but not the other way around, and you cannot keep savegames if the patch is updated
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13:02<bastu>If i install from yaourt I will get the latest 1.3.2 version I guess and then i just copy over the nightly or what?
13:02<bastu>i mean the nightly doesnt contain a binary from what i can see?
13:03<bastu>no wait
13:03<bastu>it did.. i just suck
13:04<Eddi|zuHause>the download contains everything you need, you should not copy it over into an existing installation
13:04<@Alberth>also, you can have several different versions next to each other just fine
13:04<bastu>copy that! Ye i just noticed the huge openttd exec.. facepalm
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13:08<@planetmaker>https://paste.openttdcoop.org/show/2677/ some ;-)
13:10<@Alberth>:)
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13:16<bastu>got it up and running, hopefully the crashes are gone, tnx again Alberth and planetmaker
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13:45<@DorpsGek>Commit by translators :: r25801 /trunk/src/lang (3 files) (2013-09-29 17:45:23 UTC)
13:45<@DorpsGek>-Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
13:45<@DorpsGek>estonian - 4 changes by notAbot
13:45<@DorpsGek>japanese - 5 changes by guppy
13:45<@DorpsGek>slovenian - 1 changes by matej1245
13:46<oskari89>There hasn't been many commits lately :P
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13:56<frosch123>ofc there have been
13:56<frosch123>there have not been as many ttdp commits in the last 3 years as this month
14:01<oskari89>ttdp?
14:01<oskari89>Wasn't that supposed to be deprecated?
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15:10<AndreasB>planetmaker
15:10<AndreasB>In order to do stuff based on chat commands, would I need a wrapper?
15:11<Xaroth|Work>not per se
15:11<Xaroth|Work>you need to get/make something that uses the admin port
15:11<Xaroth|Work>there are a few libraries around
15:12<Xaroth|Work>libottdadmin2 for python
15:12<Xaroth|Work>joan for java (iirc that was the java port)
15:12<@Alberth>https://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/admintools
15:12<Xaroth|Work>TWerkhoven's soap plugin for supybot shows promise if you want to combine it with IRC relaying
15:13<Taede>ello
15:14-!-DanMacK [~453f3eb5@188.cimarosa.openttdcoop.org] has quit [Quit: Page closed]
15:14<Xaroth|Work>o/ Taede
15:15<Taede>soap works quite nicely now
15:16<Taede>itll even log some stuff to a file now
15:16<Xaroth|Work>I take it my fix for your issue works?
15:16<Taede>works very good
15:16<Xaroth|Work>good
15:16<Taede>logfile now shows the name for the command rather than a number
15:17<Xaroth|Work>even better
15:17<Taede>just need to add more things to get logged
15:18<Taede>right now all it logs are rcon commands, ingame cmd's (like user x bulldozed tile y) and clients joining
15:18<Xaroth|Work>as long as the basics work, adding more thing should be the easy bit :)
15:18<Taede>yup
15:19<@planetmaker>juicy soap :-)
15:19<Taede>i think it has most features of autopilot
15:19<Taede>ello planetmaker
15:20<@planetmaker>AndreasB, could you not highlight me out of the blue with questions which anyone currently present could answer?
15:21<V453000>ANSWER IS YES
15:22<Xaroth|Work>the answer is 42
15:22<@planetmaker>well... it wasn't even a highlight with a question... so I might not even see anything when I read back
15:22<AndreasB>I have... too many players than I counted on
15:22<AndreasB>I started a server for me to fiddle about on
15:23<AndreasB>now theres 7 players + me
15:24<AndreasB>Xaroth: IRC relaying is not critical for me
15:24<Xaroth|Work>AndreasB: do you program?
15:24<AndreasB>Not regurly
15:25<Xaroth|Work>can you?
15:25<AndreasB>When I have to, and want to.
15:25<ST2>hi all :)
15:25<Xaroth|Work>if so, you have two choices, you can use joan (java), and implement your own command handling, or do the same with libottdadmin2
15:26<Xaroth|Work>the openttd-admin.py file should cover a lot of base code already (as it's the text-gui interface)
15:26<ST2>well, I have to ask: AndreasB, is that you?
15:26<AndreasB>ah, python
15:26<AndreasB>is who me?
15:26<ST2>(ofc he is ^^)
15:26<AndreasB>I am me.. Are you not you?
15:26<AndreasB>ew, python
15:26<ST2>you'd understood my question!
15:27<AndreasB>What excactly does libottdadmin2 do?
15:27<Xaroth|Work>AndreasB: it interfaces with the openttd admin port
15:27<AndreasB>Just a library to more easily do stuff?
15:27<Xaroth|Work>well, handling the communication from/to
15:27<AndreasB>Aha
15:28<Xaroth|Work>the tracking client class also does events so you don't have to handle all the incoming packets
15:28<Xaroth|Work>(and it keeps track of logged-in users and companies, along with their stats)
15:28<AndreasB>Do you run openttd-admin directly?
15:28<Xaroth|Work>you can
15:28<Taede>its usefull
15:28<Taede>remote admin-powered console
15:29<AndreasB>what does it do out of the box?
15:29<Xaroth|Work>show chat
15:29<Xaroth|Work>give rcon access
15:29<Xaroth|Work>show join/leave of players
15:29<AndreasB>Does it provide any ingame commands?
15:29<Xaroth|Work>no
15:29<AndreasB>ok
15:29<Xaroth|Work>it's just a remote interface
15:29<Xaroth|Work>so you, as admin, can check up on things
15:29<AndreasB>aha
15:29<AndreasB>why python?
15:30<Xaroth|Work>why not?
15:30<AndreasB>Easier to join, than to log on to somewhere to run it?
15:30<@Alberth>it's easier than assembly language
15:30<Xaroth|Work>a programming language is a tool for a task
15:30<AndreasB>c# ?`
15:30<Xaroth|Work>for this particular nail, I decided to go with python as my hammer
15:30<Xaroth|Work>ew C#
15:30<AndreasB>c++,
15:30<Xaroth|Work>well, for one, allowing one to modify stuff without recompiling
15:31<Taede>that point proved very handy for me
15:31<AndreasB>true
15:31<Xaroth|Work>you can tear down half of libottdadmin2 by just replacing functions with your own
15:31<Xaroth|Work>because python allows you to
15:31<@Alberth>python is very efficient in writing these high level interfaces
15:31<Xaroth|Work>another, is that python is portable.. and runs out-of-the-box on most linux distros
15:31<Xaroth|Work>C# is.. harder to port
15:32<Xaroth|Work>java can also work, but I don't like it's memory hogginess from time to time
15:32<Taede>best way to tell wether it does what you want is to run it and try to see what it does
15:32<AndreasB>Taede: +1 for viruses
15:32<AndreasB>if thats your normal take on stuff
15:32<AndreasB>"oh, an exe file.. what does this do? *runs*"
15:32<andythenorth>more height levels? http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=453119&nseq=4
15:33<Xaroth|Work>thirdly, I like python.
15:33<@planetmaker>AndreasB, -1 for not using chroot or VM ;-)
15:33<Xaroth|Work>and I like things being open source
15:33<Xaroth|Work>and that source being readable for everybody
15:34<AndreasB>How can I enable admin port when server ius running?
15:34<@planetmaker>andythenorth, that looks like the original terrain generator?
15:34<AndreasB>planetmaker: Good point
15:35<Prof_Frink>Python is its own reason.
15:35<andythenorth>when you look at this, we might as well be mining on the moon http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=379590&nseq=14#remarks
15:35<AndreasB>Xaroth|Work: Open source... nah
15:35<Xaroth|Work>AndreasB: not sure if you can, as listeners would have to be opened
15:35<Xaroth|Work>and what's wrong with open source?
15:35<AndreasB>Open source is open.
15:35<Xaroth|Work>which is bad, how?
15:36<AndreasB>as opposed to closed source
15:36<AndreasB>One does not want other people poking in ones stuff.
15:36<@planetmaker>you're clearly in the wrong channel then, AndreasB
15:36<AndreasB>software is property
15:36<Xaroth|Work>You're... playing an open source game
15:36<AndreasB>Yes, not everything open soruce is bad
15:36<juzza1>it has been poked by many fingers
15:37<AndreasB>Office wins over OO
15:37<@Alberth>AndreasB: others tend to find a lot of bugs if you let them look at the code
15:37<ST2>AndreasB, are you talking about xShunter software?
15:37<AndreasB>no idea what that is st2
15:37<Xaroth|Work>AndreasB: that's 1 single case
15:37<Xaroth|Work>look at the bigger picture
15:37<ST2>well, you do... because you made questions about it on propper channels
15:37<ST2>:D
15:37<AndreasB>I did?
15:37<@planetmaker>lol
15:37<AndreasB>when?
15:37<Xaroth|Work>:|
15:38<Xaroth|Work>I'm missing half a conversation I think
15:38<andythenorth>he's just trolling :)
15:38<AndreasB>I think I missed that half too
15:38<AndreasB>and no, I AM NOT
15:38<ST2>note: it's not my SW, but we @ BTPro use it... and runs with unchanged servers
15:38<@planetmaker>I was just considering to get popcorn :D
15:38<andythenorth>make me some
15:38<@planetmaker>k
15:38<Xaroth|Work>I would have to make it myself, so I passed on that thought.
15:39<ST2>note: I've been a week totally away from ttd and computers (lovely wineyards :D)
15:39<@planetmaker>^ sounds good :D
15:39<ST2>but saw the questions AndreasB made on n-ice channels ^^
15:39<Taede>list nuts
15:39<AndreasB>OLooh
15:40<AndreasB>Talk so people understand, I had no idea what xshunter was before you mentioned it now, and I googles
15:40<AndreasB>d
15:40<AndreasB>I asked if the !command thingie was custom script
15:41<ST2>well, the few times I talked here... I have many many changes todo on next BTPro releases (sorries already asked for version being hacked)
15:41<ST2>but well...
15:41<@planetmaker>here's your popcorn, andythenorth :-) Enjoy
15:41<ST2>see AndreasB... you asked on correct channel :D
15:42<andythenorth>thanks :)
15:42<AndreasB>Correct channel in terms of?
15:42<AndreasB>I know to what channel you are referring
15:42<ST2>the SW that provide the !commands
15:42<AndreasB>I just dont get the correctness
15:42<ST2>it's an external software
15:42<AndreasB>Ah
15:42<AndreasB>Of course it is
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15:43<AndreasB>Building admin stuff into openttd would be hilarious </sarcasm>
15:43<ST2>well, it's all there... if you use admin ports correctly
15:43<Xaroth|Work>that's why there's an admin port
15:43<Xaroth|Work>it can do.. just about anything
15:43<ST2>thx Xaroth|Work :)
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15:52<Ristovski>Hi planetmaker
15:52<Xaroth|Work>they sure want to ping you today, planetmaker ...
15:52<@planetmaker>:D ho
15:53<Ristovski>Hes famous!
16:02<__ln__>Ristovski: you mean: He's
16:05<AndreasB>so
16:05<AndreasB>if i telnet admin port, what happens?
16:06<Ristovski>__ln__: Oh, it's you again
16:06<AndreasB>Ristovski: Sounds promesing
16:11<Xaroth|Work>AndreasB: not much
16:11<Xaroth|Work>you need to talk admin port
16:11<Xaroth|Work>and authenticate
16:12<@peter1138>__ln__, I once found a Brit who was adamant that "he's" was spelled "his" :S
16:13<Xaroth|Work>heh
16:14<Eddi|zuHause>everyone knows that the british have the worst spelling of english :p
16:15<Taede>which of the brits though, english, scottish or welsh?
16:15<Eddi|zuHause>yes. those
16:15<Xaroth|Work>answer D, all of the above
16:16<Eddi|zuHause>for example they didn't realize that the spelling of color they took over from the french was wrong
16:16<Xaroth|Work>Colour ?
16:16<@planetmaker>colour?
16:16<Eddi|zuHause>the original latin doesn't have an "u"
16:16<Eddi|zuHause>the french added that
16:16<Eddi|zuHause>and the brits took that over
16:17<@planetmaker>well..
16:17<Eddi|zuHause>the americans solved that "error" :)
16:17<@planetmaker>couleur
16:17<@planetmaker>!= colour ;-)
16:17<Eddi|zuHause>well the french further mutilated stuff :p
16:18<Eddi|zuHause>like they removed half the 's' from their words :p
16:18<@planetmaker>but... it kinda defeats the idea of "wrong take-over from the French" ;-)
16:19<+glx>useless 's'
16:19<+glx>even if they are still present in derivatives
16:20<Eddi|zuHause>"Middle English colo(u)r, from Anglo-Norman colur, from Old French colour, color, from Latin color, from Old Latin colos "covering", from Proto-Indo-European *kel- (“to cover, conceal”). Akin to Latin cēlō (“I hide, conceal”)."
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17:07<andythenorth>hmm
17:07<andythenorth>cargo decay rate thingy
17:07<andythenorth>is it good?
17:07<andythenorth>for a refrigerated ship?
17:08<Supercheese>not sure
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17:11<Eddi|zuHause>just make all ships 1/4 aging
17:11<Eddi|zuHause>to make them more profitable on long routes
17:11<Supercheese>do ships have different cargo decay rates from other methods of transport?
17:12<Supercheese>or is it just the cargo rating calculation that's different?
17:12<Eddi|zuHause>not by default
17:12<Eddi|zuHause>newgrf can set any cargo aging rate they want
17:12<Supercheese>then it may be good to have more lenient decay for all ships
17:13<Supercheese>as they are rather slow
17:13<Eddi|zuHause>andythenorth: i'd imagine with ships the individual containers are refrigerated, not the ships themselves
17:13<Supercheese>(in the newgrf, of course)
17:13<Eddi|zuHause>unless you think fish processing ships
17:13<andythenorth>Eddi|zuHause: pre-containerisation, reefer ships were widespread
17:13<andythenorth>less so now
17:15<Eddi|zuHause>andythenorth: you could make another 1/2 factor for cargos that "need refrigeration" (by checking cargo-class)
17:15<andythenorth>yup
17:15<Eddi|zuHause>but the generic 1/4 for all ships is IMHO a good idea anyway
17:16<Eddi|zuHause>well, not necessarily "good", but "worth trying out"
17:17*Supercheese agrees
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17:21<andythenorth>seismic vessel: bonkers :o
17:21<andythenorth>http://www.shipspotting.com/gallery/photo.php?lid=1886166
17:21<andythenorth>http://www.shipspotting.com/gallery/photo.php?lid=1886165
17:21<andythenorth>http://www.shipspotting.com/gallery/photo.php?lid=1886168
17:23<Taede>looks like they forgot the build the aft half
17:23<andythenorth>tows seismic lines
17:23<andythenorth>won't put that in FISH :P
17:24<andythenorth>so nml cargo_age_period
17:25<andythenorth>default value is 185
17:25<juzza1>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RV_FLIP
17:25<Supercheese>Pffff
17:25<Supercheese>what the heck
17:25<andythenorth>@calc 185 &* 4
17:25<@DorpsGek>andythenorth: Error: invalid syntax (<string>, line 1)
17:25<andythenorth>@calc 185 * 4
17:25<@DorpsGek>andythenorth: 740
17:25<andythenorth>Eddi|zuHause: you're suggesting I make all ships age over 740 days? o_O
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17:27<andythenorth>there is a video on BBC site somewhere of Flip-ship flipping
17:27<andythenorth>from the inside
17:29<Eddi|zuHause>andythenorth: yes, that sounds correct
17:30<Eddi|zuHause>andythenorth: basically it's the equivalent of "planespeed 4"
17:30<Eddi|zuHause>just it won't make the ships move faster
17:31<andythenorth>ha
17:31<andythenorth>I also have a parameter already for ship speed ;)
17:31<andythenorth>right let's try this
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17:40<andythenorth>done
17:40<andythenorth>does this make sense for reefer buy menu text?
17:40<andythenorth>"Refrigerated ship (improved payment rate for perishable cargos)"
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17:45<Wolf01>'night
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17:45<andythenorth>me too
17:45<AndreasB>I opened openttd in console.. how the heck do i get out?
17:45<andythenorth>bye
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17:46<AndreasB>found it
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20:53<Eddi|zuHause>hm. daylength idea: instead of offering a factor, substitute "month" with "week" or "day"
20:55<Eddi|zuHause>so the setting would be "1 minute ~ 1 month", "1 minute ~ 1 week", "1 minute ~ 1 day", which would roughly be a daylength factor of 4.5 and 30
20:56<Eddi|zuHause>then things like "industry production last month" would say "last week" or "yesterday"
20:57<Supercheese>would that be easier to implement?
20:57<Eddi|zuHause>and instead of yearly statistics you get quarterly statistics or biweekly statistics
20:57<Eddi|zuHause>maybe not "easier" but "cleaner"
20:57<Eddi|zuHause>more strictly designed
20:58<+glx>and less places to touch
21:00<Eddi|zuHause>like instead of changing the daylength, you take 74 ticks as some sort of base unit, but instead of changing over the day, you flip between "1st may - morning", "1st may - midday", "1st may - evening" etc.
21:01<Eddi|zuHause>this may or may not cause other things to more cleanly fit in
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---Logclosed Mon Sep 30 00:00:43 2013