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#openttd IRC Logs for 2013-09-30

---Logopened Mon Sep 30 00:00:43 2013
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00:51<Supercheese>Oh sweet, in translating OTTD strings I've discovered a new 'hidden feature'
00:51<Supercheese>I should really read the tooltips >_>
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00:58<Supercheese>I love how there's a Latin article on Whyte Notation: https://la.wikipedia.org/wiki/Notatio_Whyte
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01:03<Supercheese>Admittedly it is mostly a copy from English wikipedia
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01:25<cypher_>Hi. Is anybody here?
01:31<scshunt>no
01:31<scshunt>go away, whippersnapper
01:31<scshunt>;)
01:32<Supercheese>@seen anybody
01:32<@DorpsGek>Supercheese: anybody was last seen in #openttd 2 years, 18 weeks, 5 days, 17 hours, 35 minutes, and 34 seconds ago: <anybody> hello
01:32<Supercheese>No, anybody is not here :)
01:38<cypher_>This is serious, I need help.
01:38<cypher_>I've never been awake at this hour.
01:38<cypher_>What do I do?
01:39<Supercheese>Are you asking for a cure for insomnia?
01:39<cypher_>Not really.
01:39<Supercheese>What are you asking for?
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01:40<cypher_>I don't know what people are supposed to do at this hour.
01:40<Supercheese>It's 10:42 PM here, I take it you're in another timezone
01:40<cypher_>It is 7:40 AM here.
01:43<Supercheese>Sounds like coffee time
01:44<Supercheese>s'what I'll be doing come 8 AM tomorrow
01:45<cypher_>That is alright. There's a huge difference between 8AM in the morning and 8AM in the evening...
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01:47<@planetmaker>moin
01:54<Supercheese>Sort by: Available waiting cargo --> Separare: Oneribus manentibus parabilibus
01:54<Supercheese>that phrase makes me giggle
01:54<Supercheese>so many "ibus"
01:55<Supercheese>although I wonder if it should be singular rather than plural
01:57<@planetmaker>:-) well, possibly yes
01:58<Supercheese>I honestly don't know the difference in what the filter actually does
01:58<Supercheese>Total waiting cargo vs available cargo...?
01:58<@planetmaker>there's a difference? Hm
01:58<Supercheese>Station sort by: stuff
01:59<Supercheese>no clue really :S
01:59<Supercheese>maybe a cargodist-specific thing?
01:59*Supercheese never uses cargodist
02:00<@planetmaker>hm, yes, that might indeed: total = everything. And available: cargo which might board your train
02:00<@planetmaker>but... it wouldn't know what would board your train
02:00<Supercheese>"cargo" is tricky, it often behaves like a noncount noun
02:00<Supercheese>but then sometimes gets pluralized
02:01<@planetmaker>indeed it does. And I can't even give you the rule(s) about that
02:02<Supercheese>Since we're talking about totals of stuff, I've gone with "Total cargo" -> "Summa onerum"
02:03<Supercheese>I should probably test how this looks in-game... hm
02:03<Supercheese>maybe temporary override of some other lang file
02:04<@planetmaker>is it really 'summa' and not 'totus'?
02:05<Supercheese>could be either
02:05<Supercheese>I prefer "sum"
02:05<Supercheese>it's open for debate :)
02:06<@planetmaker>looks a bit strange to me. Summa has a tendency to judge in my ears
02:06<@planetmaker>judge in a positive way
02:06<Supercheese>well, it's the same word as when discussing mountaintops and the like
02:06<@planetmaker>Omnia onerius
02:06<@planetmaker>*oneris
02:06<@planetmaker>sounds even better :D
02:07<@planetmaker>Omnia Gallia est divisa ... :-)
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02:09<@planetmaker>hm. Omnium?
02:09<Supercheese>Yeah, although we're in ablative, accompanying the sorting
02:09<Supercheese>Sort by name --> Separare nomine
02:10<Supercheese>and feel free to suggest a better verb for "sort"
02:10<Supercheese>I considered "collegere"
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02:10<Supercheese>but that's more like "gather together"
02:20<@planetmaker>hm, maybe, but not sure :-)
02:20<@planetmaker>I'm no native speaker :-P
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03:21<Supercheese>Valete
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06:29<zooks>morning
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07:45<dihedral>greetings
07:46<dihedral>@seen suu
07:46<@DorpsGek>dihedral: I have not seen suu.
07:46<dihedral>eh
07:46<dihedral>@seen zuu
07:46<@DorpsGek>dihedral: zuu was last seen in #openttd 1 week, 0 days, 21 hours, 7 minutes, and 32 seconds ago: <Zuu> Alberth: It could just be a tar with the scenario + specialized GS from a technical point of view. But in practice it will make it easier to upload and with an own category to find.
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07:46<Xaroth|Work>heh
07:48<Eddi|zuHause><planetmaker> Omnia Gallia est divisa ... :-) <-- i have a feeling asterix isn't as popular amongst americans :p
07:48<dihedral>Eddi|zuHause, :_P
07:48<dihedral>oh - i have a feeling that guys nose is displaced
07:49<@planetmaker>Eddi|zuHause, it's not that I learnt that with asterix. I actually read the Bellum Gallicum in the latin original
07:49<@planetmaker>not that I always enjoyed it :-P
07:50<Eddi|zuHause>i don't know latin at all :)
07:50<@planetmaker>and I do actually would believe that supercheese read it, too
07:50<Eddi|zuHause>and i rather doubt you'd learn a lot of latin from asterix :p
07:52<@planetmaker>but well, who knows. Maybe it was rather Ovid... Ars Amatoria
07:52<@planetmaker>Eddi|zuHause, sufficient for some posing :-P
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07:53<@planetmaker>dihedral, it's not about 'displaced noses'. But about a Latin translation of OpenTTD ;-)
07:53<@planetmaker>And if supercheese wants to make it, I'm all in favour of it
07:54<Flygon>The Gauls spoke Latin?
07:54<@planetmaker>and it was just some input on how to translate "total (cargo amount)"
07:54<Flygon>I forgot what language the Gauls spoke
07:54<@planetmaker>Flygon, some, yes. But that quote is from Julius Caesar: Bellum Gallicum
07:54<Flygon>I meant irl
07:54<@planetmaker>yes... Celtic before Caesar invaded
07:55<Flygon>Alright, thanks
07:56<V453000>openttd in latin? lol
07:57<V453000>does latin even have a word for train
07:57<Flygon>Probably
07:58<Flygon>Train basically means "Multiple objects coupled together"
07:58<Flygon>"in a linear length"
07:58<V453000>zug
07:58<Flygon>Given how many different contexts the word 'train' is affixed to in English..
08:00<@planetmaker>there seems to be a word. I don't recall. But supercheese knows :-)
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08:26<Eddi|zuHause>latin has a similar problem like hebrew, how do you make up for several milennia of missing loanwords and language development?
08:27<Eddi|zuHause>(hebrew was 'revived' as the language for modern israel)
08:28<Eddi|zuHause>after the jews couldn't decide wether to use russian (eugh, coommunists!) or jiddish (eugh! german!!) as language
08:30<__ln__>the global reviving of latin is going to happen through openttd.
08:30<Flygon>Should have chosen Australian
08:30<Flygon>We bastardized practically every other language on Earth anyway
08:31<Flygon>Australian translation of OTTD will call trains "Chugga Chugs", named after our national heratage of chugging beer
08:33<@planetmaker>Flygon, the Australian translation of OpenTTD *does* exist...
08:33<Flygon>It does?
08:33<Flygon>Which state derivative? :P
08:33<@planetmaker>https://secure.openttd.org/translator/en/status
08:34<Flygon>I'm a bit surprised British En- oh right
08:34<Flygon>I admit I'm actually a tad surprised someone translated it into Australian...
08:34<Flygon>It's practically the exact same thing as British
08:34<@planetmaker>well, a US translation also exists
08:35<Flygon>Yeah, but the US don't understand what the letter u means
08:35<Flygon>Going by how much they chop it out of words :p
08:35<@planetmaker>:-P
08:36<Flygon>Do you mind if I ask a really silly question?
08:36<Eddi|zuHause>we had that discussion yesterday :p
08:36<Flygon>The silly question, or the US not understanding what the word "Colour" is?
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08:37<Eddi|zuHause>yes, they do exactly know that the latin "color" does not have an u
08:37<Flygon>Screw Latin, I'm Australian. Stop the Boats! Or... something :U
08:39<@planetmaker>hehe, you might have been using the Australian translation then without knowing it (unless your system is not set to Australian locale or you modified OpenTTD defaults) :D
08:39<Flygon>I'd find out, but I can't be stuffed booting my desktop :P
08:41<Flygon>Still needs a English (Vic - Bogan) translation though
08:56<Xaroth|Work>does OpenTTD have a pirate translation yet? :o
08:58<__ln__>Xaroth|Work: yeah, the english original is pirated from TTD.
09:02<@planetmaker>copyright violation on the words "train", "ship" and "plane"!
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09:04<roboboy>Can anyone point me to a GRF that uses the CB23 extra text feature?
09:05<Eddi|zuHause>plenty of grfs do that
09:06<roboboy>UKRS1 doesn't seem to and the ones I am interested in using are probably too old for the feature. Also the GRF needs to work in TTDP
09:07<Eddi|zuHause>hm, i certainly can't help with the latter...
09:07<Eddi|zuHause>but i do think NARS did this
09:08<Eddi|zuHause>stuff that says "used for passenger trains" etc.
09:08*roboboy goes to get NARS
09:08<roboboy>HM US Set might do it then
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09:09<Eddi|zuHause>maybe Snail's french narrow gauge test set, but i have no idea whether that works in TTDP
09:10<Eddi|zuHause>but CETS certainly won't work :p
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09:12<Taede>ello
09:13<@planetmaker>hullo
09:14<roboboy>hmm, maybe I should chase OzTrans to build me a single train GRF that has a realong string for extra text as he asked for TTDP's window to be extended by a few lines
09:15<roboboy>or I could download CanRail or whatever it's called
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09:27<Eddi|zuHause>roboboy: maybe you can try one of these: https://dev.openttdcoop.org/attachments/download/4058/EP5.tar.gz https://dev.openttdcoop.org/attachments/download/4061/S10_1.tar.gz
09:27<Eddi|zuHause>compile with "grfcodec -e -c -p1 -g2 EP5.grf ."
09:28<roboboy>I think I will try CanRail first
09:28<Eddi|zuHause>maybe you need to remove some vehicle IDs though, as it might use "high IDs" not possible with TTDP
09:28<roboboy>Will take note of those links as well
09:29<Eddi|zuHause>i have no idea whether it works, or how much/little is needed to make it work. these were taken out of CETS
09:29<roboboy>ok
09:29<Eddi|zuHause>they contain only one single engine
09:37<Eddi|zuHause>roboboy: what would probably be useful in there as a test case is that the string contains lots of newlines
09:37<roboboy>probably
09:37<roboboy>well I don't realy want to keep working on it now as it's 11:35 PM
09:38<roboboy>will look into it more tomorrow
09:39<@planetmaker>if you use NML 0.2.x you could as well take one of the regression test 'newgrfs' which ship with NML
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09:40<@planetmaker>as that builds grf v7 NewGRFs they're supposed to work with TTDPatch, but well... nobody really knows :-)
09:40<@Belugas>hello
09:40<@planetmaker>hi Belugas
09:40<Eddi|zuHause>oh, grfv8, i really forgot about that
09:40<@Belugas>hello planetmaker :)
09:40<Eddi|zuHause>is there a grfcodec switch about that?
09:40<@planetmaker>no
09:41<@planetmaker>grf version is not container version (the latter could be changed be re-encoding)
09:41<@planetmaker>But language translations don't happen
09:42<Eddi|zuHause>then you're probably hopeless with my excerpts above :)
09:42<Eddi|zuHause>just implement grfv8 in ttdp :)
09:45-!-DanMacK [~63ffa3b9@188.cimarosa.openttdcoop.org] has joined #openttd
09:45<DanMacK>Hey all
09:48<DanMacK>@seen andythenorth
09:48<@DorpsGek>DanMacK: andythenorth was last seen in #openttd 16 hours, 2 minutes, and 22 seconds ago: <andythenorth> bye
09:48<AndreasB>I have a question :D
09:48<@planetmaker>@topic get -1
09:48<@DorpsGek>planetmaker: #openttd.notice for commit notices
09:48<@planetmaker>hm
09:48<AndreasB>How do... hm
09:48<@planetmaker>@topic get 3
09:48<@DorpsGek>planetmaker: Don't ask to ask, just ask
09:49<AndreasB>If you consider map as a square, with NE being point A, SE B etc. If you move oil from A to B, then to D
09:49<AndreasB>Will it consider the oil to be moved from A to D, or A via B to D
09:49<AndreasB>(Distancewise)
09:49<@planetmaker>manhatten distance between A and D are relevant for payment
09:50<AndreasB>even if you transfer via another station?
09:50<@planetmaker>it's no gain, only loss, to ship it around the world
09:50<AndreasB>aha
09:50<AndreasB>So basicly A to C, and B to D is most money
09:51<AndreasB>The manhattan distance, is that from the first station?
09:51<AndreasB>The one next to the primary industry
09:51<@planetmaker>first pickup to final delivery. That distance
09:51<@planetmaker>between station signs
09:51<@planetmaker>check wiki: game mechanics
09:52<AndreasB>:D
09:52<AndreasB>Ok, so moving cargo south to an hub station is idiotic
09:52<AndreasB>since its extra distance you dont get paid for
09:53<@planetmaker>yes. It's similarily idotic as to eat NZ butter here in Germany
09:53<AndreasB>^
09:53<@planetmaker>It's done. And there are reasons which make it viable
09:55<AndreasB>What I mean is, there is no reason to create the hub station as far south as you can get it
09:55<AndreasB>Moving cargo south, then to bring it north.. better if you bring it a little bit north to the hub station
09:57<DanMacK>A central hub is more efficient
09:58<AndreasB>What do you mean
09:58<AndreasB>Smack in the middle?
09:58<DanMacK>using your example, yes
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09:58<AndreasB>Why not let the trains run the entire length themselves
09:58<DanMacK>depends on the industry length
09:58<AndreasB>makes as much sense as central hub?
09:59<DanMacK>just doing point A-D if it's a single cargo, yeah
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09:59<AndreasB>Just create 8 rails from A to D
09:59<DanMacK>if you have multiple producing industries, then a central hub makes more sense
09:59<AndreasB>err
09:59<AndreasB>A->C
10:00<DanMacK>depends on your gameplay style I guess
10:00<AndreasB>i guess
10:00<Eddi|zuHause>if you want to build a feeder system, the hub should be rather close but equidistant to the producing industries
10:00<AndreasB>hm
10:00<Eddi|zuHause>then you have short runs between producer and hub, and long runs between hub and delivery
10:01<Eddi|zuHause>the long runs are more efficient because you get higher amount of cargo in shorter times
10:01<AndreasB>Producer -> Hub A -> Hub C -> Factory -> Hub C -> Hub A -> City (Goods)
10:02<Eddi|zuHause>you don't really need hub for secondary cargo (unless you do distribution between cities)
10:02<Eddi|zuHause>so hub C is mostly useless
10:02<AndreasB>Well, you dont want 20 square trains going to the factory, now do you?
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10:03<@planetmaker>why not?
10:03<AndreasB>Why have hub at A, if you arent going to have it at C ?
10:04<AndreasB>ahh
10:04<AndreasB>Theres a limit to how much you can pick up at producer, but you can deliver all cargo from 20 producers at 1 factory
10:04<AndreasB>Didnt think of it like that
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10:04<AndreasB>That would save a lot of time.. Hmm
10:05<AndreasB>afk
10:08<Eddi|zuHause>well, you need to think about a hub C if you deliver like more than 20000 units of cargo per month :)
10:09<AndreasB>why?
10:09<Eddi|zuHause>because the factory cannot produce goods any faster than that, so the extra cargo will be accepted, but you get no goods out of it for further profit
10:09<AndreasB>ah
10:10<Eddi|zuHause>this depends on the size of the industry, so it's more for oil refineries and less for sawmills
10:10<Eddi|zuHause>exact numbers are written somewhere
10:10<Eddi|zuHause>@calc 12*255
10:10<@DorpsGek>Eddi|zuHause: 3060
10:11<Eddi|zuHause>@calc 12*255*256
10:11<@DorpsGek>Eddi|zuHause: 783360
10:11<Eddi|zuHause>@calc 8*255*256
10:11<@DorpsGek>Eddi|zuHause: 522240
10:11<AndreasB>o.O
10:11<Eddi|zuHause>hm, no that's not it
10:11<Eddi|zuHause>@calc 12*255*8
10:11<@DorpsGek>Eddi|zuHause: 24480
10:11<Eddi|zuHause>@calc 12*255*9
10:11<@DorpsGek>Eddi|zuHause: 27540
10:11<AndreasB>lol
10:11<Eddi|zuHause>one of those
10:12<Eddi|zuHause>each tile can produce 255 items during each production step, there are 8 to 9 production steps in each month, and there are 12 tiles in a factory
10:13<AndreasB>and there are 12 tiles in a factory
10:13<AndreasB>what does that mean?
10:13<Eddi|zuHause>the factory occupies 12 tiles (3 2x2 blocks)
10:14<Eddi|zuHause>the oil refinery is 4x5, so 20 tiles
10:14<AndreasB>ahh
10:14<AndreasB>I see now
10:14<Eddi|zuHause>sizes can vary depending on industry layout
10:14<AndreasB>but is 1 unit of oil = 1 unit of goods?
10:15<Eddi|zuHause>1.000l is one unit of oil, and it produces 1 unit of goods (reduced by your station rating, so you won't get 100% out of it)
10:15<AndreasB>aha
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11:25<DanMacK>@seen Bad_Brett
11:25<@DorpsGek>DanMacK: Bad_Brett was last seen in #openttd 6 days, 16 hours, 38 minutes, and 18 seconds ago: <Bad_Brett> hmm i might have accidently found the error
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11:44<Flygon>Famous last words
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11:59<juzza1>Didn't he have a big newgrf in the making? hope he comes back
12:10<DanMacK>oh yeah, he is
12:11<DanMacK>I'm talking with him about borrowing and modifying some stuff to TTD style
12:16<juzza1>ok :)
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12:19<DanMacK>I really need to get the steam done for the FTS :P
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14:12<Wolf01>hoi
14:12<DanMacK>ho ho
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14:18<DanMacK>hey!
14:19<andythenorth>hi DorpsGek
14:19<andythenorth>meh
14:19<andythenorth>hi DanMacK
14:19<DanMacK>lol
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14:50<andythenorth>so Dan just told me about this...
14:50<andythenorth>http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=26&t=7519&hilit=palconvert
14:50<andythenorth>how do I compile the C file?
14:51<andythenorth>I am helpless without a makefile :)
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14:52<DanMacK>use the exe
14:53<DanMacK>it's a command line interface IIRC
14:55<andythenorth>exe no worky worky on Mac
14:55<DanMacK>ahhhh
14:55-!-TrueBrain_ is now known as TrueBrain
14:55<@planetmaker>gcc -o file file.c
14:56<Pinkbeast>On a Mac that looks like it should just compile with a straight compiler invocation.
14:59<andythenorth>worked
14:59<andythenorth>DanMacK: is it pcx only?
14:59<andythenorth>ever tried a png?
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15:02<V453000>omfg? :D
15:03<DanMacK>I think it's pcx only, not sure
15:04<Ristovski>planetmaker: OpenGFX's hg repo seems to be down, can you check?
15:04<Ristovski>I mean, if I do "hg clone http://hg.openttdcoop.org/opengfx" it doesnt do anything, just freezes
15:05<Ristovski>"abort: HTTP Error 504: Gateway Time-out"
15:08<Ristovski>nvm, whole http://hg.openttdcoop.org/ is down
15:08<Ristovski>server crashed?
15:15<Ristovski>Dayum fix yo intertubez
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15:18-!-peter1138 is "Peter Nelson" on @+#openttd #debian #tycoon
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15:27<DanMacK>grrrr
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15:27*DanMacK slaps andythenorth around a bit with a large fishbot
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15:28<andythenorth>wasn't me that did it
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15:56<Ristovski>andythenorth: y u do dis
15:56<Ristovski>andythenorth: fix hg pls
15:56<andythenorth>ok I'll get right on that
15:57<Ristovski>Thanks
15:57<andythenorth>ok it's fixed
15:58<Ristovski>andythenorth: what was the problem
15:58<Ristovski>and not fixed
16:00<andythenorth>oh dear
16:00<andythenorth>do you know how to fix it?
16:00<Ristovski>"abort: HTTP Error 504: Gateway Time-out"
16:00<Ristovski>andythenorth: no idea
16:00<Ristovski>andythenorth: try restarting the service?
16:00<andythenorth>what does that error mean?
16:01<Ristovski>"The 504 Gateway Timeout error is an HTTP status code that means that one server did not receive a timely response from another server that it was accessing while attempting to load the web page or fill another request by the browser."
16:01<Ristovski>andythenorth: my guess is hg server is bork
16:01<Ristovski>and nginx just throws that error
16:02*DanMacK looks around for the admins
16:02<andythenorth>did we turn it off and on again?
16:02<Ristovski>andythenorth: try that
16:02<DanMacK>lol
16:03<andythenorth>Ristovski: have you tried restarting your computer?
16:03<andythenorth>or reinstalling the OS?
16:03<Ristovski>andythenorth: :|
16:03<Ristovski>yes
16:03<Ristovski>I installed windows 8.1 now
16:03<Ristovski>much betr!!1
16:04<andythenorth>Ristovski: I have to admit I am trolling you
16:04<andythenorth>I have no idea how to fix hg either
16:04<Ristovski>I know
16:04<andythenorth>but I can't push
16:05<andythenorth>when planetmaker has time, he'll figure it out
16:05<andythenorth>:)
16:05<andythenorth>meanwhile, we sit tight :)
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16:07<Ristovski>andythenorth: do you have enough permissions to restart hg on server?
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16:08<andythenorth>no
16:08<andythenorth>I deliberately don't have ssh
16:09<Ristovski>why not
16:09<andythenorth>I don't trust myself
16:11<andythenorth>and I would get asked to server admin
16:11<Ristovski>wut o_O
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16:29<frosch123>night
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16:29<andythenorth>too slow :(
16:29<andythenorth>he's quick
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16:31<retro|cz>cyph3r === "gay"
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16:39<andythenorth>night
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17:30<Wolf01>'night all
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17:31<AndreasB>Oilfield doesnt go over 67% ?
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22:36<AndreasB>dayumn
22:36<AndreasB>1957 and I have 4 mill already
22:36<AndreasB>I'm doing something right :D
23:26<Flygon>Inflation on or off?
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---Logclosed Tue Oct 01 00:00:44 2013