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#openttd IRC Logs for 2013-10-01

---Logopened Tue Oct 01 00:00:44 2013
00:12<AndreasB>on
00:13<AndreasB>But not much inflation yet
00:13<AndreasB>maxloan when I started was 200 000, now at 250k
00:13<AndreasB>and i have 27 mill
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02:44<zgrillo2004>yo
02:44<zgrillo2004>anyone there?
02:45-!-zooks [~zooks@vhe-540241.sshn.net] has joined #openttd
02:45<@planetmaker>@topic get 3
02:45<@DorpsGek>planetmaker: Don't ask to ask, just ask
02:46<@planetmaker>but good morning
02:46<zgrillo2004>lol
02:46<zgrillo2004>anywyas Im having a problem on getting silicon valley to work
02:46<zgrillo2004>apparently it crashes becauses of superlib
02:46<zgrillo2004>from what I red Ottd is opening the wrong type
02:46-!-Devroush [~dennis@dD5765BAC.access.telenet.be] has joined #openttd
02:46<@planetmaker>did you use ingame content download to obtain silicon valley?
02:47<zgrillo2004>yes
02:47<zgrillo2004>I did
02:47<@planetmaker>then you should get the proper superlib version
02:47<@planetmaker>hm
02:47<zgrillo2004>I using revision 35
02:47<zgrillo2004>its SUperlic for NoGO
02:47<zgrillo2004>*superlib
02:48<@planetmaker>hm, difficult, I guess
02:49<zgrillo2004>I think its A WELL KNOWN PROBLEM
02:49<zgrillo2004>http://irclogs.qmsk.net/channels/openttd/date/2012-09-08?page=2
02:49<zgrillo2004>CAPS
02:49<zgrillo2004>oi
02:49<zgrillo2004>sry
02:49<zgrillo2004>cant see tonight
02:50<@planetmaker>ok, I suggest to make a comment in the thread dedicated to SiliconValley in our forums
02:50<@planetmaker>Then the author can see that and fix that possibly
02:50<zgrillo2004>alright
02:50<@planetmaker>I would think there's a new version since 2012, though...
02:50<@planetmaker>that conversation you link is 12 months old... maybe dependency was not properly set
02:50<zgrillo2004>thats what I think also
02:51<@planetmaker>though... I don't recall an issue when I setup that on our server. But we might have had the proper SuperLib by chance
02:51<zgrillo2004>probably a change to the nut file?
02:51<zgrillo2004>if you had the proper file, why was it deleted?
02:53<@planetmaker>You need the exact same version for the library. It won't become deleted
02:54<zgrillo2004>but where is that revision then?
02:54<zgrillo2004>its not in bananas
02:54<@planetmaker>probably it is. But you only get the latest. Unless a script or AI requests an older library as dependency
02:55<@planetmaker>http://ps.openttdcoop.org/content_download/game/library/ <-- take that from here
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02:57<zgrillo2004>got it. lets see if it works
02:58<@planetmaker>needs to go in ~/game/library folder
02:58<@planetmaker>not directly the game folder
02:58<zgrillo2004>already knew that
02:58<@planetmaker>good :-)
02:59<zgrillo2004>I put it with the rest of the library files the GS needs
02:59<zgrillo2004>and it works
02:59<zgrillo2004>though im not sure if that GS is compatible with later revisions4
02:59<@planetmaker>:-) I'd still leave a comment at the SiliconValley thread
02:59<zgrillo2004>does it?
02:59<@planetmaker>what later revisions?
02:59<zgrillo2004>revision 35
02:59<zgrillo2004>*36
02:59<@planetmaker>the GS needs exactly 35, if it says so. Later won't work
03:00<zgrillo2004>hmm
03:01-!-Elukka [~Elukka@a91-152-213-89.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined #openttd
03:02<zgrillo2004>ok I made a POST
03:02<zgrillo2004>though it aint detailed but it will do
03:02<zgrillo2004>http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=65&t=62556&p=1098477#p1098477
03:02<zgrillo2004>also another peoblem
03:02<zgrillo2004>I tried to connect this IRC through mibbit
03:03<zgrillo2004>but it throws this error Closing Link: ircip1.mibbit.com (Banned)
03:03<zgrillo2004>I dont know if its me or something
03:03<zgrillo2004>its odd
03:03<@planetmaker>it's mibbit banned on the whole network
03:03<zgrillo2004>I dont understna
03:03<zgrillo2004>*understand
03:03<@planetmaker>mibbit doesn't work with this IRC server
03:04<zgrillo2004>what...... o_O
03:04<zgrillo2004>and so mibbit banned this IRC?
03:04<@planetmaker>not your fault, rather an issue between oftc.net and mibbit
03:04<@planetmaker>no, vice versa
03:04<zgrillo2004>ah
03:04<@planetmaker>this irc doesn't allow connections from mibbit website
03:04<zgrillo2004>well then I think that the chat link's irc interface should be changed to a different system
03:05<zgrillo2004>im currently using Kiwi IRC
03:05<@planetmaker>as mibbit doesn't provide anti-spam measures the network asked them to implement
03:05<zgrillo2004>ah
03:05<zgrillo2004>like I said
03:05<zgrillo2004>maybe KiwiIRC?
03:05<@peter1138>Which chat link is that?
03:05<@planetmaker>dunno which link you followed, so I can't answer that, zgrillo2004
03:05<zgrillo2004>https://kiwiirc.com/client
03:05<zgrillo2004>oh
03:05<zgrillo2004>hold on
03:06<zgrillo2004>http://www.tt-forums.net/chat.php
03:06<zgrillo2004>this one
03:06<zgrillo2004>it uses mibbit
03:06<@planetmaker>yeah, true. orudge still didn't change chat link from mibbit to something else it seems :-)
03:06<zgrillo2004>I guess you need to harp him on doing that
03:07<@planetmaker>I guess i just did with that line :-P
03:07<zgrillo2004>Harping?
03:07<@planetmaker>well. prodding
03:08<@peter1138>Hmm, I didn't think mibbit was Java.
03:08<@peter1138>The Java applet there doesn't work for me, though.
03:08<Xaroth|Work>morning
03:09<@planetmaker>well. mibbit generally is blocked, so whatever is there, won't connect you here, peter1138
03:09<@planetmaker>it's a global ban on oftc.net
03:09<@planetmaker>hi Xaroth
03:09<@peter1138>Welcome to missing the point :p
03:09<@planetmaker>:-)
03:10<@peter1138>If it's a Java applet, it's probably not mibbit. But I can't tell, because the Java applet won't load.
03:10<@planetmaker>peter1138, it's mibbit, though
03:11<@planetmaker>even when it's java
03:11<@planetmaker>at least that applet tells me it's mibbit
03:12<@peter1138>Okay. Weird. Java should be able to connect from the local host...
03:12<zgrillo2004>sorry for chaning the subject
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03:12<zgrillo2004>but I signed up to a site called INFRA
03:12<zgrillo2004>which makes GRFs
03:13<@planetmaker>lol
03:13<zgrillo2004>thought not much activity is on there
03:13<zgrillo2004>who are they
03:13<@planetmaker>zgrillo2004, http://dev.openttdcoop.org
03:13<zgrillo2004>???
03:13<@planetmaker>that's other people. But... more working, less talking ;-)
03:13<zgrillo2004>yea
03:13<zgrillo2004>but is IFRA a joke site or something?
03:14<zgrillo2004>*Infra
03:14<@planetmaker>I prefer to not comment on that
03:14<zgrillo2004>cause they havnt uploaded anything that they present
03:14<zgrillo2004>why not
03:14<zgrillo2004>I would like to know
03:14<zgrillo2004>I dont know this community that much
03:14<zgrillo2004>remember I just signed up to this forum
03:14<@planetmaker>you judge yourself. Your experience is my judgement
03:15<zgrillo2004>well
03:15<zgrillo2004>they seem to show off but dont release their GRFS
03:15<zgrillo2004>I dont know
03:15<@planetmaker>^^
03:15<zgrillo2004>is that what they do?
03:15<V453000>haha <3
03:15<zgrillo2004>Oh
03:15<zgrillo2004>its called Simuscape
03:15<zgrillo2004>thats the sit ename
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03:16<V453000>world of assholes is the motto :)
03:17<@planetmaker>keep it civil, V453000
03:17<V453000>no why
03:17<zgrillo2004>planet he maybe right
03:17<zgrillo2004>thought im not sure about regulatings of cursing
03:17<zgrillo2004>of sites like this
03:17<zgrillo2004>I sually just say Damn or hell
03:21<V453000>those words arent sufficiently descriptive in some cases :P
03:30<zgrillo2004>Oi
03:30<zgrillo2004>alright planet
03:30<zgrillo2004>thanks for the help
03:30<zgrillo2004>I have a big day tomorrow so im gonna go as well
03:30<zgrillo2004>thanks again guys
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03:39<V453000>also I enjoyed how he was wondering if it is a joke site XD
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03:46<V453000>can GIMP export something like a .psd for photoshop?
03:47<V453000>hm looks like somehow it sould
03:47<@planetmaker>it can at least read them
03:48<@planetmaker>seems it's also available in export options
03:48<V453000>I pressed the magical export button but it looks like it froze :d
03:49<Supercheese>my GIMP exports to .psd
03:50<Supercheese>anyway, good night
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03:51<V453000>yay, finished :D
03:51<V453000>everything was suspiciously grayed out in the process :D
03:51<V453000>bai
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06:42<dihedral>oi
06:44<@planetmaker>o/
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07:55<andythenorth>moin
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08:01<roboboy>hello
08:04<@planetmaker>salut
08:17<AndreasB>Hei hei :)
08:34<__ln__>http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41c03P3wR8L._SS500_.jpg
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09:54<LordAro>/o
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10:41<__ln__>http://www.nasa.gov
10:41-!-wakou2 [~stephen@host86-164-48-240.range86-164.btcentralplus.com] has joined #openttd
10:42<SpComb>:D
10:43<LordAro>that's... not how webspace funding works...
10:43<@peter1138>;)
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10:46<SpComb>perhaps if their production support personell is out, noone to respond to things breaking
10:47<@planetmaker>do I miss something on the nasa site?
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10:47<@planetmaker>tweet column?
10:48<SpComb>< HTTP/1.0 302 Found
10:48<SpComb>< Location: http://notice.usa.gov
10:48<SpComb>www.nasa.gov is an alias for publicredirects.ksc.nasa.gov.
10:50<@planetmaker>not for me
10:52<@planetmaker>http://imagebin.org/272444
10:52<Eddi|zuHause>maybe you're privileged
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10:54-!-mode/#openttd [+o planetmaker] by ChanServ
10:54<@planetmaker>I doubt that.
10:54<@peter1138>http://i.imgur.com/iKM977z.png
10:54<@planetmaker>well, yes. that's not www.nasa.gov :-)
10:55<@peter1138>Redirect-fu...
10:56-!-dfox [~dfox@94.142.237.120] has joined #openttd
10:59<@planetmaker>anyway, I can't remember to have seen such folly in politics in a loooong time
11:00<@planetmaker>"how to ruin a country in three steps" could learn from this, I guess.
11:08-!-Sturmi [~sturmi@p4FEDC96B.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd
11:20<Eddi|zuHause>"Windows Phone (8.8%, +5.0) closing up on iOS (9.5%, -1.6) market share in Germany"
11:22<Eddi|zuHause>"Data based on interviews with consumers, excluding major company deals"
11:23<SpComb>iOS having a 9.5% market share?
11:23<SpComb>market share in what :)
11:26<@peter1138>I have a bit of Cisco IOS...
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11:45<Eddi|zuHause>SpComb: share in sold smartphones
11:48<Eddi|zuHause>SpComb: there's also the android figure of 78.8%, +0.0 :)
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12:46-!-DanMacK [~453f3eb5@188.cimarosa.openttdcoop.org] has joined #openttd
12:47<DanMacK>Hey all
12:47<@Alberth>hi hi
12:47<DanMacK>\o
12:48<@planetmaker>ho
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13:13<@Alberth>hi hi
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13:19<andythenorth>ho ho he gone :P
13:19-!-DanMacK [~453f3eb5@188.cimarosa.openttdcoop.org] has joined #openttd
13:19<DanMacK>Hey all
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13:45<@DorpsGek>Commit by translators :: r25802 trunk/src/lang/polish.txt (2013-10-01 17:45:10 UTC)
13:45<@DorpsGek>-Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
13:45<@DorpsGek>polish - 7 changes by joziowicz
13:46<@planetmaker>that guy is fast. He got translator access like 1 hour ago at most
13:47<@planetmaker>hm. two hours :-P
13:52<@Alberth>@calc 3993/7 * 2 / 24.0
13:52<@DorpsGek>Alberth: 47.5357142857
13:53<@planetmaker>:D
13:56<@Alberth>oh all wrong, polish is almost complete :)
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14:36<Wolf01>'llo
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14:38<Wolf01>hi Eddi
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15:05<Eddi|zuHause2>this looks totally weird, the backlog on this computer is from almost exactly 3 years ago
15:06<frosch123>what year do you have?
15:06<frosch123>here, it's 2013
15:06<Eddi|zuHause2>i need a program that joins logfiles based on timestamps :)
15:08<Eddi|zuHause2>yes, but the last lines from the log are:
15:08<Eddi|zuHause2>[Samstag, 9. Oktober 2010] [10:46:26] <xiong> I'll try that, too, Rubidium. I'm trying several different approaches -- this folder, that folder, zipped, unzipped, in a folder, loose, etc.
15:08<Eddi|zuHause2>[Samstag, 9. Oktober 2010] [10:47:45] <xiong> Bingo on installing OpenGFX, unzipped, into /usr/share/games/openttd/data/ -- FWIW.
15:09<Eddi|zuHause2>but actually i needed this computer to boot windows, which didn't work, and then i strayed :/
15:10<Eddi|zuHause2>windows starts to boot properly, but stops towards the end somewhere, and safe mode the same way...
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15:12<Eddi|zuHause2>and the newer kde4 has extremely slow response time when switching windows
15:12<Eddi|zuHause2>and there i strayed again :)
15:15<Eddi|zuHause2>it feels like it has zero 2D acceleration
15:16<frosch123>select a different gui schema
15:16<frosch123>one without round edges
15:17<frosch123>at least that fixed it on the old machines at work
15:17<Eddi|zuHause2>it was fine 2 versions ago. and i disabled 3D effects
15:17<frosch123>try clearlooks or plastik
15:18<frosch123>it's silly how much effect that schema has on the performance
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15:19<Eddi|zuHause2>i think plastik is the current one
15:19<frosch123>uhm, ok, then don't switch to a different one :p
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15:23<frosch123>dorpsgek!
15:23<Supercheese>R.I.P. bot, you served admirably
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16:13<NGC3982>Wat.
16:14<Supercheese>Watt.
16:14<NGC3982>Tesla much?
16:15<Supercheese>Joule see what I mean.
16:16<NGC3982>How coulomb of you.
16:16-!-DanMacK [~63ffa3b9@188.cimarosa.openttdcoop.org] has joined #openttd
16:16<@planetmaker>Maxwell soon
16:16<@DorpsGek>Commit by alberth :: r25803 /trunk (bin/baseset/orig_dos.obg src/vehicle_gui.cpp) (2013-10-01 20:16:44 UTC)
16:16<@DorpsGek>-Fix[FS#5738]: Draw start/stop graphics of the vehicle bar at the right place in rtl mode (adf88).
16:19<Supercheese>I Gauss so...
16:22<@DorpsGek>Commit by alberth :: r25804 trunk/src/vehicle_gui.cpp (2013-10-01 20:22:38 UTC)
16:22<@DorpsGek>-Fix[FS#5739]: Lower sprite and text at the vehicle bar if it is pressed (adf88).
16:23<frosch123>Alberth: what are you doing? :o
16:23<frosch123>is committing the new trend? :p
16:24<@planetmaker>fighting the tide :)
16:24<LordAro>did you mean to commit that translation? :L http://hg.openttd.org/openttd/trunk.hg/rev/c2043d650dd2
16:24<@planetmaker>probably not. But not hurtful either
16:24<@planetmaker>need be done occasionally
16:25<frosch123>planetmaker: well, i was kind of amused that ottd commits stopped just when ttdp started again
16:25<@planetmaker>:D
16:25<LordAro>you guys aren't working hard enough :p
16:25<@Alberth>where does that line come from?
16:25<@planetmaker>Alberth, from the update to base translation. which is NOT in the obg files but only lang
16:26<frosch123>LordAro: they are auto generated
16:26<frosch123>but not auto committed
16:26<LordAro>ah
16:26<@Alberth>ah, right
16:26<frosch123>it's one of those grey area where you commit generated files to simplify build dependencies for others
16:26<LordAro>shouldn't they be generated on compilation, rather than commit?
16:27<LordAro>right :)
16:27<@Alberth>frosch123: perhaps ttdp is stopped again? :)
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16:27<frosch123>like we do not require gawk to generate the script wrappers
16:27<@planetmaker>yes. But then grfcodec would become a build dependency. Currently it's only recommended
16:27<@planetmaker>and needed after maintainer-clean but not clean
16:27<LordAro>fair enough :)
16:27*LordAro -> out
16:27<LordAro>laters, all
16:27<@Alberth>bye bye :)
16:27<@planetmaker>bye, LordAro
16:28*LordAro stays online to make sure no one says mean things about him :p
16:28*LordAro waves
16:29<@Alberth>just admit you're too curious what is said here :)
16:29*DanMacK slaps andythenorth around a bit with a large fishbot
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16:35<@DorpsGek>Commit by alberth :: r25805 trunk/src/vehicle_gui.cpp (2013-10-01 20:35:06 UTC)
16:35<@DorpsGek>-Fix[FS#5740]: Ensure the vehicle bar is high enough for the start/stop vehicle graphics (adf88).
16:40*Alberth apologizes for any confusion that the DorpsGek messages may have caused
16:42<frosch123>as long as you do not commit lordaro's patch, it's all fine :p
16:43*frosch123 was waiting for a chance for a pun
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16:44<NGC3982>Don't be such a Röntgen.
16:44<NGC3982>Oh, we've stopped.
16:44<NGC3982>:(
16:44<@Alberth>did anyone consider subsidies in the light of cargo-dist? (FS#5766)
16:45<frosch123>Alberth: i think noone ever thought about that :)
16:46<NGC3982>http://i.imgur.com/LO4yypb.png
16:47<@planetmaker>I guess not, yes
16:47<@planetmaker>probably a genuine omission
16:47-!-zeknurn [~sup@hd9483b0c.seveveb.dyn.perspektivbredband.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
16:47<@planetmaker>I checked, the bug is real
16:47<frosch123>subsidies are not exactly a popular feature
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16:48<@Alberth>something for the todo list?
16:48-!-Pereba_ is now known as Pereba
16:49<frosch123>if it's a bug, it belongs on fs, not on the todo list
16:50<frosch123>todo list is for fancy new stuff
16:50<frosch123>we only were desperate enough to also mention osx there :p
16:51<frosch123>anyway, i did not look at the issue, so i do not exactly know what it's abuot
16:51<frosch123>but if it needs discussion how subsidies should interact with cargodist at all, it might make sense to carry it to the forums
16:51<@Alberth>basically, subsidies and cargo-dist have different ideas how passengers get moved
16:52<@Alberth>so you get subsidies with very little pax and vv
16:52<@Alberth>the reporter wanted to get money for pax that transferred at the destination
16:52<frosch123>well, ideally it should suggest a route which would generate a lot of pax then
16:53<frosch123>but ok, we could also just pay for transfers
16:53<frosch123>though that might be quite imbalanced when not using cdist :po
16:54<@Alberth>what about pax that travel through the station without switching to another train?
16:55<@Alberth>I'd say you want to pay only for pax that actually go to the destination, or the meaning gets very blurry
16:55<frosch123>hmm, actually... i have no idea what part of the travel should be subsidises for transfers
16:55<frosch123>if you transport a->b->c->d and b->c is subsidised
16:55<frosch123>but only a->d distance defiens the income
16:56<@Alberth>or subsidize c->d and get a negative income :p
16:56<frosch123>and transporting stuff just via b->c, even if they are nowhere on the route a->d ...
16:56<frosch123>yeah, i am pretty lost on what is the right thing
16:57<frosch123>so, if someone can word the problem in an easy way, forums may help
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17:26<__ln__>salvete
17:27<frosch123>hugh
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17:34<Supercheese>Heus
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17:38<__ln__>etiam salve, caesus magnus
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17:48<Caseus_Maximus>Optime
17:49<@planetmaker>Valete
17:49<Caseus_Maximus>atque vale
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17:53<frosch123>eus appellantur logaithmum naturalis
17:54<Caseus_Maximus>:)
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18:00<Eddi|zuHause>Gesundheit
18:01-!-frosch123 is now known as rana123
18:01<rana123>noctem
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18:02<__ln__>an "ranaCXXII"?
18:02<__ln__>+I
18:05<Caseus_Maximus>Cura te ipsum; sed si occasio est tibi mutandi in unicornem, eam carpe.
18:05<Caseus_Maximus>(smashing rule -3 here, beg pardon)
18:07<__ln__>according to google translate, 'ipsum' is 'football', which i might strongly doubt.
18:07<Caseus_Maximus>hahaha
18:07<Caseus_Maximus>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cura_te_ipsum
18:08<Caseus_Maximus>Where on earth did they get football
18:09<Caseus_Maximus>It's not quite 'be yourself', but meh
18:09<__ln__>football is there twice: http://low.fi/~viznut/loremipsum-google.txt
18:09<Caseus_Maximus>O_o
18:10<Caseus_Maximus>Perhaps more of "esto te ipsum"
18:10<+glx>__ln__: the joy of automatic translations :)
18:10<Prof_Frink>Quidquid latine dictum sit, altum videtur.
18:11<Caseus_Maximus>Sane ;)
18:13<Caseus_Maximus>The problem there is lorem ipsum is not Latin
18:14<+glx>it just looks latin
18:20<__ln__>are numbers 0-9 appropriate in latin text, or should they be I V X L C M? especially in openttd.
18:20<Caseus_Maximus>Nolo legere numeros Romanos
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18:23<Caseus_Maximus>https://la.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vicipaedia:De_orthographia#Numerorum_usus
18:26<__ln__>gratias
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18:42<Wolf01>'night
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19:58<Eddi|zuHause>roman numerals can't cover 64 bit integers :)
19:58<Tulitomaatti>whynot? (except for zero?)
19:59<Tulitomaatti>...just that i agree that any sensible representation probably fails after... what do they have? I V X L C M? anything higher than M?
19:59<Eddi|zuHause>even if you allow multiple use of the numeral for 100.000, you run out of screen space :)
20:00<Tulitomaatti>^ doable but illegilible :D
20:00<Eddi|zuHause>the largest recorded number in roman numerals is 3 million, which repeats the 100.000 sign 30 times
20:01<Tulitomaatti>except if you cheat and use powers and other math. VII*X^M
20:02<Eddi|zuHause>you really wouldn't want to calculate powers in an additive system... even multiplication is already way less fun :)
20:03<Tulitomaatti>i imagine coding a class to handle arithmetics with those is... fun!? :D
20:04<+glx>better code a converter class and do the math as usual ;)
20:04<Tulitomaatti>especially if you don't do it so that you always convert operants to normal stuff
20:04<Tulitomaatti>-ts +ds
20:04<Tulitomaatti>glx: yeah... but what's the fun part in there?
20:04<Eddi|zuHause>you should at least "normalize" out the subtraction rule
20:05<Eddi|zuHause>i.e. IX -> VIIII
20:05<+glx>and VI -> V -> IV
20:06<Eddi|zuHause>then you need a multiplication table for each pair of literals
20:07<Eddi|zuHause>then you have a "simple" text replacement
20:07<Eddi|zuHause>and after that you have to re-normalize again
20:07<Eddi|zuHause>i.e. sort and combine
20:08<+glx>you can simplify using groups I-V-X X-L-C C-D-M
20:08<+glx>each group follow the same rules
20:10<Eddi|zuHause>so for example XIX*VII -> XVIIII*VII -> (LXX)(XXVVV)(VII)(VII)(VII)(VII) -> L XXXX VVVVVV IIIIIIII -> CXXVII
20:10<Eddi|zuHause>no idea whether that is correct :)
20:12<Eddi|zuHause>i seem to miss a V
20:14<+glx>and a I disappeared :)
20:14<Eddi|zuHause>yeah, was just searching for that one, because it can't be even :p
20:15<Eddi|zuHause>XIX*VII -> XVIIII*VII -> (LXX)(XXVVV)(VII)(VII)(VII)(VII) -> L XXXX VVVVVVV IIIIIIII -> CXXXIII
20:15<Eddi|zuHause>better now :)
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---Logclosed Wed Oct 02 00:00:45 2013