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#openttd IRC Logs for 2013-10-03

---Logopened Thu Oct 03 00:00:47 2013
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02:44<@planetmaker>moin
02:46<V453000>hi pm :)
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02:47<V453000>seen the ymage I pasted? :)
02:47<@planetmaker>yeah, just found it in backlog. Thanks a lot :-)
02:47<@planetmaker>ich's exactly what I was hoping for
02:47<@planetmaker>*it's
02:48<V453000>cool
02:49<V453000>though they are only flatbed
02:50<V453000>hoppers could be easy to get from the heaps on wagons, but tankers would be quite tough :) got no barrels or such, esp not barrels with varying colours
02:50<@planetmaker>yeah. But other cargos hardly show up :-)
02:50<V453000>mostly, no, in nuts, always
02:51<V453000>cargoes not showing up is boring :(
02:51<@planetmaker>^ quite
02:51<@planetmaker>but there it then needs variations in wagons somehow
02:51<V453000>http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/nuts/repository/entry/gfx/CHAMELEONtanker.png those would be very easy to extract
02:52<V453000>https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/20419525/SHIP_HOPPER.png and heaps
02:53<@planetmaker>yeah, true. Hoppers, too
02:53<@planetmaker>:-)
02:55<V453000>the only problem with those 3 could be that the hoppers probably are smaller as it is only a small heap
02:56<V453000>so perhaps it would make more sense to use flatbed cargoes from some other flatbed I have in the repo :)
02:56<@planetmaker>well, yeah. But as explained yesterday, I only want one cargo icon to toy with it for some GUI buttons... so vehicle size is not of interest for me here :-)
02:56<V453000>oh, one :)
02:57<@planetmaker>well. or two or three
02:57<@planetmaker>or 5 or 7:D
02:57<V453000>I got a couple more than that :D should be ok
02:57<@planetmaker>will need to see how it goes :-)
02:57<V453000>ayez
02:57<V453000>also we found a funny bug :D
02:57<@planetmaker>oh?
02:57<V453000>if basecosts track purchase is at 0, rail conversion fails due to having no tracks to replace :D
02:58<V453000>I dont think it happens always, but definitely does with purr XD
02:58<@planetmaker>you mean if building tracks is something which costs no money?
02:58<V453000>I guess
02:59<V453000>frog sez that the convert tool checks for total price, if 0, then it throws no track to replace error :D
02:59<@planetmaker>that's my guess, too
03:01<V453000>will try to reproduce and eventually report in the evening :D
03:02<@planetmaker>:-)
03:04<V453000>also, purr will get friends :P
03:04<V453000>-> meow
03:04<@planetmaker>lol. What will be meow?
03:04<V453000>special train class friendly with purr
03:05<V453000>trains which change stats based on colour of purr, something like red +speed, blue +power, yellow +TE, green +bit of each
03:05<V453000>basically adds a whole new dimension of thinking to building
03:05<@planetmaker>will that be in NUTS or separate?
03:05<V453000>in nuts of course
03:06<V453000>the effect will just not apply when purr isnt loaded
03:06<@planetmaker>ah, I thought separate as you said 'purr will get friends' :-)
03:06<V453000>ah, well ye :P
03:06<@planetmaker>and was about to suggest to put it into NUTS :-)
03:07<V453000>I was considering to even move purr to nuts
03:07<V453000>but hm
03:07<@planetmaker>nah
03:07<@planetmaker>no point really
03:07<V453000>most people load both things anyway
03:08<@planetmaker>yes, still :-)
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03:09<@planetmaker>thinking of it this way it actually *might* even make sense to meow separately. But well.
03:10<@planetmaker>As long as NUTS keeps its usefulness w/o PURR it doesn't matter, I guess :-)
03:11<V453000>I dislike having to load many newGRFs
03:11<V453000>one, done
03:11<V453000>so 1 for vehicles and 1 for tracks sounds best to me
03:12<V453000>twould soon be nuts, purr, meow, mooo, duck, farm, asdf, YAWTF, mine, chipnuts, ...
03:12<@planetmaker>I like one for each 'concept'/'idea'/'feature' (each of those words can be mis-understood and is up to interpretation, so...)
03:12<V453000>the list would get long :P
03:12<@planetmaker>yeah
03:12<V453000>yeah well problem is when different features interact :P
03:12<V453000>e.g. wetrails
03:12<@planetmaker>well. yes
03:13<@planetmaker>it's not a black&white thing. But that's why you can check for other NewGRFs :-)
03:13<V453000>though e.g. canadian stations influencing snow line is total wtf
03:16<@planetmaker>That's about the point: It need remain intuitive what a NewGRF will give you. And not influence / add stuff which is unexpected
03:16<V453000>yarr
03:16<V453000>-> every newGRF should add slugs
03:17<@planetmaker>And thinking of people liking different things, it's good to split big things so that people with different ideas possibly could cherry-pick the modules they like. But the modules need remain reasonably in size. Or it's hell
03:17<@planetmaker>we don't want to add each vehicle, tree and landscape tile separately, either :-)
03:17<V453000>points to ecs :)
03:18<V453000>tbh splitting big things should be done through parameters
03:18<@planetmaker>Well... the idea to separate that is not bad. But I guess with industries it's quite hard. And its requirement to make some things in certain order is not always helpful
03:19<@planetmaker>nah, really depends
03:19<V453000>parameters are extra effort for setting up, but the default is done by 1 click of adding the newgrf
03:19<@planetmaker>with industries I'd do it with parameters. rails + trains I'd always do separately in NewGRFs. Also it makes e.g. no sense to combine HEQS with another vehicle grf. It's just a separate idea
03:21<V453000>well of course, separate that much, yeah
03:21<V453000>was talking more like about e.g. if each train class of nuts had its own newgrf, or idk, cargo/pax trains had one
03:21<V453000>like newGRFs which fit together
03:22<@planetmaker>no, that'd be nUtS of course ;-)
03:23<V453000>mhm :)
03:26<Supercheese>'night
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06:32<NGC3982>Morning.
06:46-!-TheMask96 [martijn@polaris.ne2000.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
06:47<__ln__>technically yes, if you are in denial of the daylight saving time.
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06:57<peter1139>1057 UTC
07:00<V453000>666
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09:19<@Belugas>hello
09:25<frosch123>morning canada!
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09:32<Malinux->is there a way to get a higher rating than 67% with oil tankers?
09:33<frosch123>buy a statue
09:33<frosch123>buy smaller faster tankers
09:44<Malinux->I can't get faster tanker than the one with max speed of 40Km/h
09:46<Malinux->* a faster
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09:49<Xaroth|Work>always have a tanker loading?
09:51<V453000>use proper vehicles (trains)? :)
09:53<frosch123>hmm, some yogscast member started a ottd let's play series
09:53<frosch123>increasing downloadrate since 2013-09-20
09:54<Malinux->Xaroth|Work: I have several tankers waiting ;)
09:55<Malinux->V453000: Don't think train is useful in the ocean
09:55<Malinux->*trains
09:55<Xaroth|Work>depends on how much money you have to spend tbqfh
09:56<V453000>looks useful enough to me
09:58<Malinux->Xaroth|Work: fair enough, but it looks ugly with a trainline out to a oil rig
09:59<V453000>and a good reason to use oil wells instead
10:00<@Belugas>canada (i'd say Quebec but whatever...) salutes yu back sir frosch123 :)
10:00<frosch123>oh right, quebec!
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10:01<@Belugas>well... don't formalize yurself, it's just an internal matter ;)
10:01<frosch123>someone compared the voting results from east and west germany, noting the difference after 23 years of reunification
10:01<frosch123>someone else mentioned the difference of canadian vorting results compared to quebec, after 150 years :p
10:02<frosch123>(relativating the relevance of 23 years :p)
10:03<Malinux->Xaroth|Work: Anyhow. Your answeer dosen't answeer my question :) sure it's possible to build a train line out to a oil-rig.
10:05<Malinux->that's more of a work around
10:18<peter1139>answeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeer
10:19<Malinux->peter1139: I don't think you can demand an answer like that :)
10:21<frosch123>depends on the dose
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10:23<DanMacK>Hey all
10:24<Malinux->frosch123: oki :)
10:28<Pinkbeast>frosch123: Or England and Scotland, 350-odd years after King James I and VI
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10:45<@Belugas>frosch123, the more years passing, obviously, the less differences in the voting. The separatist feeling is shrinking since peple start to realize there is nothing to gain, apart a national pride that does not bring any food to the table. All in all, the only ones who would gain anything are the politicians, and they are not lasting 23 years ;)
10:47<@Belugas>and thanks to today's access t inernet, i can correct all that i did wrong at the time hehehe
10:49<frosch123>hmm? is there more bandwith for canada since us powered off?
10:49<frosch123>s/canada/quebec/
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11:36<peter1139>Hmm, quite a few 7:3 monitors around now...
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11:40<frosch123>mine is 11:3
11:40<frosch123>what nonsense :p
11:44<V453000>wtf
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11:47<@Belugas>frosch123: i wrote the last part on the wrong channel :( sorry
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12:08<peter1139>That CyberClean stuff...
12:08<peter1139>http://imgur.com/6J1i0PS
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12:47<@DorpsGek>Commit by zuu :: r25809 trunk/src/script/api/script_event_types.cpp (2013-10-03 16:47:24 UTC)
12:47<@DorpsGek>-Fix: [Script] Decoding JSON data with an empty array from Admin port failed
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13:45<@DorpsGek>Commit by translators :: r25810 /trunk/src/lang (3 files) (2013-10-03 17:45:20 UTC)
13:45<@DorpsGek>-Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
13:45<@DorpsGek>czech - 2 changes by retro
13:45<@DorpsGek>korean - 5 changes by telk5093
13:45<@DorpsGek>portuguese - 106 changes by vesgo
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14:20<V453000>in what form does the website URL for bananas needs to be?
14:20<V453000>http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/nuts/wiki
14:21<V453000>seems broken
14:21<V453000>https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/20419525/asdfffffffff.png :|
14:22<Supercheese>Isn't that the website embedded in the newgrf, not Bananas?
14:22<@Rubidium>http://newgrf-specs.tt-wiki.net/wiki/Action14#GRF_website_.28.22INFO.22_-.3E_.22URL_.22.29
14:22<Supercheese> name : string(STR_GRF_NAME);
14:22<@Rubidium>V453000: ^ ought to give you clues why it is broken there
14:23<Supercheese> desc : string(STR_GRF_DESCRIPTION);
14:23<V453000>o_O
14:23<Supercheese> url : string(STR_GRF_WEBSITE);
14:23<Supercheese>the URL?
14:23<V453000>does NML have that?
14:23<V453000>does
14:23<Supercheese>just like I copy/pasted
14:23<V453000>:)
14:25<V453000>thanks guys :)
14:26<Supercheese>libenter
14:28<Zuu>Supercheese: The URL is both given in the bananas entry and in the content itself.
14:29<Supercheese>Zuu: yes, but the Visit Website button in the linked image is the embedded-in-grf version
14:29<Zuu>The URL given in the bananas entry is used for the download content dialog. The URL in the content itself is used when you work with actual downloaded content.
14:29<Supercheese>Indeed
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15:27<Wolf01>hi hi
15:28<@Alberth>o/
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16:45<__ln__>who is in charge of the configure script?
16:47<@Alberth>nobody
16:48<__ln__>i would like to ask nobody what this is supposed to mean in --help: "--with-liblzma[=liblzma.a] enables liblzma support"
16:49<frosch123>i have been wondering about that for the past 5 years
16:49<frosch123>never figured it out, but it usually works anyway
16:50*Zuu just released yet another GS that for the change doesn't do anything on its own but allows Admin Port clients to remote control the GS
16:50<__ln__>as far as i can see, it is not expecting a path to liblzma.a as the =parameter... rather it is expecting some kind of an executable that returns the proper paths given proper arguments.
16:51<frosch123>yes, some script which is compatible to pkg-config
16:51<frosch123>but prints more useful stuff than pgk-config usually does
16:51<frosch123>sometimes pkg-config just reports non-sense
16:52<__ln__>so why the "[=liblzma.a]"? i demand an answer from nobody!
16:52<scshunt>__ln__: it means you can tell it that the library has a different name
16:52<__ln__>scshunt: no it doesn't
16:53<frosch123>__ln__: it does mean that, it's just lieing
16:54<__ln__>i don't like configure scripts that are lying
16:56<@Alberth>it suggests a perhaps usable name?
16:58*andythenorth watches the Gromit auction
16:59<andythenorth>Gromit Lightyear selling for about £70k
16:59<__ln__>Alberth: whatever is given after the '=' the script will try to execute. static libs are not executable.
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17:04<+glx>inside [] is the default value IIRC
17:06<__ln__>well fair enough, that's what i also agree it is *supposed to mean*. however, it obviously doesn't mean that.
17:06<peter1139>It's pretty pointless as it stands.
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17:09<Eddi|zuHause>__ln__: obviously you aren't supposed to type the []
17:09<Eddi|zuHause>__ln__: [] means you can leave this part out
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17:11<__ln__>Eddi|zuHause: but i can't because OS X doesn't come with liblzma
17:12<Eddi|zuHause>__ln__: --without-liblzma?
17:12<frosch123>maybe just switch to steamos?
17:15<__ln__>Eddi|zuHause: then i can't load some stuff like savegames. but the real point is, the help text in my opinion implies you could provide a path to liblzma.a, but that is not the case. if you enter --with-liblzma=/blabla/liblzma.a, the script will attempt to execute /blabla/liblzma.a and fail.
17:16<Eddi|zuHause>hm, weird
17:16<Eddi|zuHause>ask TrueBrain?
17:16<+glx>or ask the one that added it to config.lib
17:17<frosch123>Eddi|zuHause: it's the same issue with all config options
17:17<frosch123>but i never had a clue what to really put there :)
17:18<peter1139>Really it should be a base path to the library/includes...
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17:36<__ln__>@seen TrueBrain
17:36<@DorpsGek>__ln__: TrueBrain was last seen in #openttd 2 weeks, 2 days, 3 hours, 25 minutes, and 52 seconds ago: <TrueBrain> GPL should only be used on code, nothing else :)
17:37<Supercheese>No GPL graphics? Odd...
17:37*Supercheese doubts he was being serious, of course.
17:37<TrueBrain>Graphics should NEVER be licensed under GPL
17:37<TrueBrain>so no, I was rather serious
17:37<TrueBrain>sorry :)
17:38<Supercheese>well
17:38<Supercheese>too bad for OpenGFX then
17:38<Supercheese>and numerous grfs
17:38<Eddi|zuHause>but that wasn'T the actual question )
17:38<Eddi|zuHause>:)
17:39<frosch123>is tb licensed under gpl
17:39<frosch123>can we patch him?
17:39<TrueBrain>you can patch me any dy ;)
17:39<Eddi|zuHause>the question was what is this nonsense in configure supposed to mean :)
17:40<frosch123>that's a useless question
17:40<frosch123>you should rather ask what there should be instead
17:41<Eddi|zuHause>the question is whether we want to change the behaviour or the help text
17:44<__ln__>i vote for changing the behaviour, because there cannot be assumed to be a pkg-config nor a pkg-config compatible script to run for a particular library on a particular platform.
17:44<frosch123>good luck with that
17:44<frosch123>you need at least path to lib and path to include
17:44<frosch123>sometimes also cflags
17:44<frosch123>and version info
17:44<__ln__>i know, i know
17:45<Eddi|zuHause>and today's earworm sponsored by www.youtube.com/watch?v=9AWS8IcJPvE
17:46<__ln__>frosch123: so both options have drawbacks.
17:47<Eddi|zuHause>"--with-library=path:/blah,include:/blah,cflags:blah"?
17:48<Eddi|zuHause>"--with-library=pkg-config:/blah"?
17:48<__ln__>i don't see how that would be more difficult than writing a script for returning those.
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17:52<Eddi|zuHause>i have no idea, but i thought we were trying to find a solution
17:53<__ln__>yes, and i was supporting your proposal and questioning frosch's doubts about it being impossible.
17:56<__ln__>so does anyone actually currently give a parametre to --with-liblzma anyway? (except for myself).
17:57<frosch123>distros if any
17:57<frosch123>and they are most likely to have a script
17:57<Eddi|zuHause>we don't know, but my proposal could be made backwards compatible by checking whether there is : in it, and give a deprecated warning
17:57<Zuu>Oh the custom bridge head patch is only 34977 lines long :-)
17:57<Supercheese>only
17:58<Zuu>I wonder why it is that long
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17:59<Eddi|zuHause>Zuu: contains "new map array" with potentially huge refactorings
18:00<Eddi|zuHause>Zuu: i'm fairly sure there are smaller steps in there :)
18:00<Supercheese>He has a patch queue
18:00<Supercheese>ehm, somewhere at least
18:01<Eddi|zuHause>it's not like he never wrote a patch before...
18:02<Zuu>Yep, I'd not be surprised if he got a patch queue somewhere.
18:03<Supercheese>seems like he didn't post the queue for recent revisions
18:03<Supercheese>http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=33&t=58420&start=140#p1072130 has one with 401 patches
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18:18<frosch123>night
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18:39<Wolf01>'night all
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18:58<pure>Hello!
18:58<pure>Is there anything currently in the game for sharing infrastructure?
19:00<Supercheese>Not in trunk, but There's a Patch for That™
19:03<pure>Out of interest, can you set someone else's station as a destination?
19:03<Supercheese>Probably, when using the IS patch
19:04<pure>But not in vanilla?
19:04<Supercheese>no
19:05<pure>I'm tempted to start an OTTD server, but not sure if people will want to mess around with patches and stuff
19:05<Supercheese>only time something like that can work is with oilfields/fishing grounds
19:05<Supercheese>then, since they are not owned by anyone, any company can send vehicles there
19:06<pure>Fishing grounds?!
19:06<pure>I haven't played OTTD in ages >_>
19:06<Supercheese>Those come from newgrfs
19:07<pure>Aaah
19:07<Supercheese>FIRS / ECS
19:07<pure>Was thinking it might just be 'cus I only play temperate.
19:07<pure>Do you still need newgrf for trams?
19:07<Supercheese>yep
19:07<Supercheese>although if planetmaker has his way, that may change :)
19:07<pure>opengfx?
19:08<Supercheese>what of it?
19:08<pure>I mean, opengfx trams
19:08<pure>I suppose I could build ottd and distribute the binary.
19:10<Eddi|zuHause>don't bother with patches unless you have a very close circle of friends playing
19:12<Eddi|zuHause>even with newgrfs, the servers that use them are more empty than others.
19:12<Eddi|zuHause>i think because once people start using newgrfs they have their own special opinion on which ones are good, and then servers always use a "bad" one
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20:40<XaTriX>Hi'
20:42-!-Haube [~michi@77-20-40-44-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
20:42<XaTriX>I compiled a patched version from 1.3.2 on my debian7x64 & when starting a dedicated server i got that :
20:42<XaTriX>dbg: [sl] Game Load Failed
20:42<XaTriX>Broken savegame - Invalid chunk size
20:42<XaTriX>(i'm not loading a game, just generate a map)
20:44<XaTriX>the full starting log : http://pastebin.com/zpy1VMvm
20:45<XaTriX>i've liblzma
20:46<XaTriX>i don't understand from where it comes
20:49<Eddi|zuHause>that is not the real problem
20:52<XaTriX>hm?
20:53<XaTriX>oh yeah the network pb ?
20:53<Eddi|zuHause>the savegame is probably the title game, which is a non-critical error
20:56<XaTriX>ok
20:56<XaTriX>so the problem is the network thing
21:02<XaTriX>well i've solved that with changing admin port
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21:03<XaTriX>it save & load.. so there's no problem :d
21:21<Eddi|zuHause>the network problem sounds like you have another instance running already
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---Logclosed Fri Oct 04 00:00:47 2013