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#openttd IRC Logs for 2013-10-08

---Logopened Tue Oct 08 00:00:53 2013
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01:44<sla_ro|master>hi :P
01:44<sla_ro|master>damn mirc, changing window when loading >.>
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04:35<peter1139>I just opened a fresh bag of coffee... mmmm
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08:04<tigeroo>hello all
08:06<zydeco>greetings, comrade
08:09<tigeroo>I just started playing this game again, it has been a real blast from the past
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08:10<tigeroo>just wish I could find a real saved game editor for the game
08:10<tigeroo>it seems like that whole project is dead
08:11<V453000>convert sav to scn? or?
08:11<zydeco>what do you want to edit?
08:13<tigeroo>cargo amounts
08:13<tigeroo>maybe city sizes
08:13<tigeroo>how do you convert from save to scn?
08:13<@planetmaker>just rename file
08:14<@planetmaker>tigeroo, if you want a better savegame editor, improve OpenTTD's scenario editor
08:14<@planetmaker>It certainly could allow for more possibilities
08:14<@planetmaker>externalizing that is rather difficult due to the rather frequent changes in savegame format
08:15<@planetmaker>(there are >200 savegame formats currently)
08:15<tigeroo>that is crazy
08:16<@planetmaker>tigeroo, not. How else should we add new features and options but maintain save/load compatibility?
08:17<tigeroo>I'm not saying its bad, just crazy and sounds complicated
08:18<MNIM>Meh. why not just get the editor to load .savs too? >.>
08:19<@planetmaker>normally it's not really complicated. But re-implementing that elsewhere would be a constant struggle to keep up. And would need to duplicate mostly our save/load code
08:19<@planetmaker>MNIM, yes, that makes sense IMHO
08:20<V453000>+1 to that
08:21<MNIM>I so far have always just solved it by simply symlinking the .sav to a .scn in the right folder, but yeah, not exactly an option for all OSes
08:21<tigeroo>so just rename the sav to whatever and it will work in the save game editor?
08:21<@planetmaker>hehe, indeed
08:23<tigeroo>I downloaded the editors from Owen Rudge's site
08:24<tigeroo>trying to understand what file formats to use
08:27<@planetmaker>they all are at least thoroughly outdated - if they work at all for OpenTTD
08:29<tigeroo>oh, well how does one go to the scenario editor?
08:30<MNIM>there's a button on the start menu of OTTD. >.>
08:32<tigeroo>okay sorry been awhile since I've played
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08:53<tigeroo>@planetmaker, how do you symlink files? Is there any tutorial?
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08:55<dihedral>tigeroo, google that same question without "@planetmaker," and you will be surprised
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09:02<tigeroo>what is the best industry set? for more options and whatever?
09:09<@planetmaker>what is your idea of 'best'?
09:10<@planetmaker>there's basically three: FIRS, ECS and OpenGFX+Industries. Each unique
09:12<tigeroo>whats the best for the most industries?
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09:19<Taede>tigeroo: whats best is a personal matter
09:19<@Belugas>tigeroo, it's a matter of personnal preferences
09:19<Taede>best advice we can give you is to try them all out
09:21<tigeroo>in your opinion which is best?
09:25<@planetmaker>tigeroo, also that depends on what thing fancies my mood :-)
09:25<Pinkbeast>tigeroo: FIRS
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09:46<@Belugas>no no!!! ECS!!
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09:52<tigeroo>is there a compatibility list for FIRS?
09:58<@planetmaker>tigeroo, yes. no. Generally: Use a vehicle set per category. Default vehicles (aircraft, ships, road, trains) will not load the cargoes
09:58<Pinkbeast>I'm not sure what you mean. It works with most things that aren't other industry sets.
09:58<@planetmaker>Most decent NewGRFs support it
10:01<@planetmaker>heqs, nuts, av8, fish
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12:01<Eddi|zuHause> <planetmaker> there's basically three: FIRS, ECS and OpenGFX+Industries. Each unique <-- that misses at least half of them :)
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12:42<AndreasB>How do I get random seed on every restart?
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12:44<pure>What is the difference between cargodist and cargodest?
12:44<__ln__>i vs. e
12:44<AndreasB>Sounds like distance and destination
12:45<pure>I assume distribution and destination, but is there a functional difference?
12:45<AndreasB>Where do you read this?
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12:46<pure>OTTD wiki, development section
12:46<Pinkbeast>pure: Cargodist sends cargo to the destinations you make available, with reference to the apparent capacity of the network.
12:47<Pinkbeast>cargodest gives cargo desired destinations irrespective of the network you have built.
12:47<pure>dist > dest, it sounds like?
12:47<Pinkbeast>That depends on what you prefer, but dist seems to be more actively developed these days.
12:48<Pinkbeast>And cargodest games can be very hard to get off the ground in.
12:48<frosch123>dist is finished and in trunk, dest was abandoned
12:48<pure>Not yet in release, right?
12:48<frosch123>no, nightly
12:49<frosch123>main difference of dist and dest, is the amount you get to transport
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12:49<frosch123>with dist you always get the same amount to transport, if you add more routes, the same amount will be distributed over differen routes
12:49<frosch123>so, by adding a new route you actually hurt your existing routes, like in standard ottd
12:50<frosch123>in dest you only get the cargo, for which you provide a route
12:50<frosch123>so, the more routes you have, the more cargo you get
12:50<frosch123>adding more routes does not affect existing ones
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13:33<Eddi|zuHause>is there an iconv filter to fix double-utf8?
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13:45<@DorpsGek>Commit by translators :: r25825 trunk/src/lang/lithuanian.txt (2013-10-08 17:45:17 UTC)
13:45<@DorpsGek>-Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
13:45<@DorpsGek>lithuanian - 2 changes by Stabilitronas
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14:07<TheDude>hi there
14:07<TheDude>anyone could help me with GS please? I am having to make setParam of GSText to work
14:08<TheDude>actually I dont even know if it works the same as in the code or not
14:29<@planetmaker>TheDude, the existing open-source GS are no help and guide?
14:30<TheDude> - I tried several combinations, but still cant figure how it is supposed to work
14:31<TheDude>if I call it like GSText.SetParam, there is errormesage that says it is not static, and if I use it on text object, it throws undefined error
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14:38<Zuu>TheDude: local txt = GSText(GSText.STR_MY_STRING); txt.SetParam(...);
14:38<Zuu>Or just apply the parameters to the GSText constructor that take variable amount of parameters.
14:38<TheDude>well, that is what I tried but it failed
14:39<Zuu>Eg. local txt = GSText(GSText.STR_MY_STRING, company, town);
14:39<TheDude>like txt.setparam(0, variable)
14:39<Zuu>You should not use lowercase
14:39<Zuu>IIRC its SetParam
14:39<Zuu>Squirrel is case sensitive.
14:39<TheDude>in code I had it SetParam
14:40<Zuu>If my help doesn't help, perhaps paste relevant part of your code in a pastebin
14:40<TheDude>well, I tried to pass string to it, as the description slightly implies
14:41<TheDude>is it already possible to pring raw strings in GS?
14:41<Eddi|zuHause>what do you need raw string for anyway?
14:41<Zuu>You cannot pass a raw string to SetParam
14:42<TheDude>I am limited by 20 parametres limit, so I build a string with numbers to pass it as one string parameter
14:42<TheDude>another way possible in GS?
14:42<TheDude>I want to display more things in town gui
14:42<TheDude>and it takes only one GSText instance, so there is the 20 par limir
14:43<@planetmaker>you can't get around that limit
14:43<TheDude>no {RAW_STRING}? :-(
14:43<Zuu>It may work to pass a raw string instead of GSText, but otherwise there is no way to get around the limit.
14:43<@planetmaker>not by out-sourcing params to sub-strings
14:43<TheDude>I know that
14:44<TheDude>I tried: var = a+"/"+b+"blabla";
14:44<Eddi|zuHause>why is there a limit to a "stack" anyway?
14:44<TheDude>GSText(GSText.MY_STR, var); MY_STR :{RAW_STRING}
14:44<TheDude>to no avail
14:44<TheDude>well, I dont mind the limit
14:45<TheDude>but it would be nice if town gui could have more lines like goal gui has
14:45<TheDude>and so far I have not found any way to pass raw strings there
14:46<Eddi|zuHause>well if there is no way you're unlikely to find it by repeating the problem more often
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14:46<TheDude>what do yo mean?
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15:11<frosch123>we just need an excel plugin
15:12<@planetmaker>And Powerpoint
15:13<frosch123>V453000: can you immitate the day9 rant on spreadsheets in games?
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15:20<Zuu>TheDude: The current system do not offer more than 20 parameters. If you need more, perhaps consider to write a patch that provides an elegant solution to the problem.
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15:31<V453000>frosch123: ?
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17:07<TheDude>yes Zuu, good idea, but increasing paramatres is not what I would want anyway
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17:19<Zuu>TheDude: the solution I had in mind would not be raising the parameter limit. While re-reading my suggestion it may be easy to think so.
17:21<Zuu>Other solutions would be to offer multiple multi-lines or moving the story page rendering code to a generic location and re-use it in town window and add a mechanism to link a story page (element) to a town.
17:21<TheDude>I am not deeply involved in actual code there, but yes, it would be nice to have more flexible town gui space
17:22<TheDude>especially for GS dealing with towns
17:22<Zuu>I do not oppose that, just that I haven't prioritized that over other things that I would like to do.
17:25<TheDude>if it is in priorities then it is good :-)
17:30<Zuu>A somewhat complicated task that I've started but still have long way to go is to add interactive controls to the story book. Eg. a simple form of a <form> in html.
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17:36<__ln__>what does the spectrum of a 2-dimensional Fourier transform tell about the source, if the transform is applied to e.g. a photo?
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17:47<@planetmaker>__ln__, it tells the spatial frequency. E.g. gives you an idea of where features are found of what size
17:47<@planetmaker>and whether it's a rather regular pattern or rather stochastic image
17:48<@planetmaker>__ln__, you could for instance use the fourier transform of an image to low or high pass filter an image by cutting away the corresponding frequencies and subsequently apply the inverse fourier transform
17:48<@planetmaker>high-pass will give you edge detection, low-pass will give you a blurred image
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18:15<Wolf01>'night all
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18:21<carpii>anyone know why openttd would fail to output music (tried with both original music data, and openmsx)
18:21<carpii>uh, on a mac, i should add
18:24<__ln__>planetmaker: thank you, i trusted #openttd to be the place to get a decent answer for that at midnight, and i wasn't wrong. :)
18:32<Eddi|zuHause>carpii: lack of a midi playback device? (on linux i'd say timidity, but on mac i have no clue)
18:33<carpii>im not sure either tbh :(
18:33<carpii>i would have thought quicktime driver would work
18:34<carpii>openttd detects the music, but selecting a track just whizzes through them all in a second, as if theyre all invalid
18:36<Eddi|zuHause>that's a typical sign that playback device is missing
18:38<carpii>ok thanks
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21:24<kristal>Is the most popular version win64?
21:24<Eddi|zuHause>probably not
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21:35<Supercheese>win32, surely
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21:39<Eddi|zuHause>it might be interesting when that tips
21:39<kristal>>4gb maps lol
21:39<kristal>Create... World Of Transport!
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---Logclosed Wed Oct 09 00:00:54 2013