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#openttd IRC Logs for 2013-10-13

---Logopened Sun Oct 13 00:00:00 2013
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03:26<LordAro>morning
03:34-!-ChoHag [~mking@91.103.132.228] has joined #openttd
03:34<ChoHag>When did signals become so expensive to run?
03:34<Supercheese>With infra maintenance?
03:35<ChoHag>I don't know? I asked the question first?
03:35<V453000>I get to feel that was an actual asnwer
03:35<V453000>n/s :)
03:35<LordAro>^
03:35<Supercheese>Well, d'you have infra maintenance on?
03:35<peter1138>V453000, you left out the question mark?
03:35<ChoHag>It had a question mark at the end.
03:35<V453000>LOL peter1138
03:36<ChoHag>Are we Australian today!
03:36<V453000>all day
03:36<@Alberth>moin
03:36<V453000>meow
03:36<V453000>or woem, to be sufficiently backwards
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03:37<Supercheese>ʍoǝɯ
03:37<@Alberth>lol
03:37<ChoHag>Anyway if you're referring to a togglable option I don't know because I'm been moved on to Thomas the Tank Engine books and the other computer is upstairs.
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03:37<ChoHag>Sorry: ?
03:38<ChoHag>But if 'fuck me over with ridiculuosly expensive signals' is indeed an option, I mayy havre inadvetrantly turned it on.
03:38<ChoHag>(Yeah I have one hand with which to type)
03:39<@Alberth>http://wiki.openttd.org/Advanced_Settings/Economy item 1.6
03:39<Supercheese>"Infrastructure Maintenance"
03:40<@Alberth>the other option is that you have a cost modify newgrf loaded
03:40<ChoHag>I checked for those.
03:40<Supercheese>If enabled, it will charge a rather significant upkeep cost if you have many signals
03:40<peter1138>Sounds designed to penalise V453000
03:40<ChoHag>Apart from FIRS they're all superficial mods like station graphics.
03:41<V453000>actually vice versa peter1138
03:41*LordAro seems not to have gone to sleep yet
03:41<LordAro>hmm, should do something about that
03:41<V453000>it basically means that you need to get high train density :)
03:41<@Alberth>or less signals :p
03:41<V453000>out of the question :P
03:41<ChoHag>I usually do have high train density.
03:41<ChoHag>Just not at frist.
03:42<V453000>but yeah I never use infrastructure maintenance, no point in it
03:42<ChoHag>So now I'm skint and had to eithrt cheat or wait an inordinate amount of time on hyperspeed.
03:43<ChoHag>Well that depends on whether you consider there to be a point at all.
03:43<peter1138>I've never played with it either, cos I never play :(
03:44<ChoHag>I haven't played in ages but my daughter goes nuts about trains so I 'had to' start up again.
03:44<V453000>I like going nuts
03:44<Supercheese>nuts about NUTS
03:44<Supercheese>are there even nuts in NUTS?
03:44<Supercheese>food should be displayed as nuts
03:45<V453000>nope
03:45<ChoHag>Then I saw that the cargo distribution patch was mainlined, so I went all out trying to get some sort of realism.
03:45<V453000>ooooh I also love realism
03:46<V453000>my favourite part is making fun of it and insulting realism people
03:46<V453000>:>
03:46*V453000 is evil
03:46<ChoHag>Indeed.
03:47<ChoHag>Industries of the same type can be built close to each other with this patch on, it could cause problems though as you may end up with ten industries of one type in one small area of your map.
03:47<ChoHag>wtf?
03:47<ChoHag>Who said that's a problem?
03:47<ChoHag>That's the way the world works.
03:48<ChoHag>Coal mines, for example, tend to be clustered around where the coal is.
03:48<ChoHag>Bit pointless otherwise.
03:49<V453000>what difference would it make in the game if you have 3 close coal mines instead of one with triple production? ;)
03:50<@Alberth>realism, of course
03:50<@Alberth>otherwise, it looks like you're playing a game :p
03:50<ChoHag>The difference is that there would be 3 coal mines instead of 1.
03:50<ChoHag>That's .... the point.
03:51*ChoHag sighs
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03:51<ChoHag>Open sores and economics are not happy bedfellows.
03:51<peter1138>Do industries still have a maximum production? If so, That'll be the difference between 1 and 3...
03:52<peter1138>Silly gendarme... "Ensure local disposal" ... well I can't, that object's passed into a thread...
03:52<V453000>peter1138: please count people in this room who get 2295 production often :P
03:53<peter1138>People who press those little buttons ;)
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04:05<Wolf01>'morning
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04:09<@Alberth>moin
04:09*Supercheese dormiturus est.
04:09<Supercheese>Valete
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04:19<@planetmaker>moin
04:21<@Alberth>moin
04:27<LordAro>/o
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05:22*andythenorth is hoping hg branch merge is as painless as git merge
05:22<andythenorth>otherwise it will be sad times later
05:23<peter1138>Just use git :D
05:24<andythenorth>git -> hg? :P
05:24<andythenorth>there probably is one of those
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06:00<Ristovski>Just use git as peter said :D
06:02<andythenorth>it's not a git repo :P
06:02<andythenorth>I know I can shuffle things in and out of git, but my brain is too small
06:03<andythenorth>Eddi|zuHause: when you worked out the slice lengths table - are they just nice combinations, or are the lengths of each part tuned specifically to avoid graphical glitches?
06:03*andythenorth is trying to be parsimonious with ids for the third part, and wants it to always be 1/8 :P
06:06<andythenorth>I could get friendly with cb 36 :P
06:06<andythenorth>and match 3rd part length to 1st part length
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06:11<Eddi|zuHause>andythenorth: the parts shouldn't be too short because of my usage of curvature info
06:14<andythenorth>makes sense. no effect in my set though
06:15<andythenorth>more interestingly, nml has no implementation of var 62 afaict
06:15<andythenorth>nah wrong var
06:15*andythenorth looks again
06:15<andythenorth>var 61
06:15<andythenorth>obiwan :P
06:18<andythenorth>can't use it in cb36 anyway, nvm
06:18<andythenorth>I'll just consume more IDs, simple
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06:42<peter1138>Yeah, we can just increase the 65535 limit...
06:44<peter1138>Okay, I looked at WCF and I got scared...
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06:46<andythenorth>doesn't look that bad http://www.wcf.co.uk
06:46<andythenorth>:P
06:46<andythenorth>@calc 65535 / 3
06:46<@DorpsGek>andythenorth: 21845
06:46<frosch123>oh, i commited a savegame version TODO again :p
06:46<andythenorth>peter1138: don't bother, I can get by on 21845 unique vehicles, it's ok
06:47<Eddi|zuHause>andythenorth: articulated callback can only handle 16k IDs, not 64k
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06:48<andythenorth>@calc 16000 / 3
06:48<@DorpsGek>andythenorth: 5333.33333333
06:48<andythenorth>still
06:48<andythenorth>more than enough
06:48<andythenorth>:)
06:48<andythenorth>is there not an 8192 limit for trailing parts? Did I imagine that?
06:51<Eddi|zuHause>it's 14 bits
06:52<@DorpsGek>Commit by frosch :: r25855 /trunk/src/saveload (afterload.cpp saveload.cpp) (2013-10-13 10:51:58 UTC)
06:52<@DorpsGek>-Fix [FS#5788] (r25833): Obiwan messed up savegame conversion.
06:55<fonsinchen>Somehow I don't have voice in #openttd.dev . Can someone fix that please?
06:56<@planetmaker>but via dorpsgek you could give yourself :-)
06:56<@planetmaker>:D
06:57<@planetmaker>yeah, sorry, typed in wrong channel
06:57<peter1138>Pfft, that silly channel...
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07:04<@DorpsGek>Commit by planetmaker :: r25856 trunk/src/newgrf_industries.cpp (2013-10-13 11:04:20 UTC)
07:04<@DorpsGek>-Codechange: Use Industry::TileBelongsToIndustry in one more place (cirdan, LordAro)
07:05<@DorpsGek>Commit by planetmaker :: r25857 trunk/src/order_gui.cpp (2013-10-13 11:05:20 UTC)
07:05<@DorpsGek>-Codechange [FS#5783]: Add void goto type to indicate inactivity in order window (adf88)
07:06<@DorpsGek>Commit by planetmaker :: r25858 trunk/src/order_gui.cpp (2013-10-13 11:06:05 UTC)
07:06<@DorpsGek>-Fix [FS#5783]: Goto button in order window was not always lowered when it should (adf88)
07:07<@DorpsGek>Commit by planetmaker :: r25859 trunk/src/order_gui.cpp (2013-10-13 11:06:58 UTC)
07:07<@DorpsGek>-Add [FS#5784]: Hightlight active goto item in order list dropdown (adf88)
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07:12*peter1138 ponders updating some patches...
07:13<peter1138>Heh, RGB company colours!
07:13<peter1138>32 rail types.
07:13<@planetmaker>road types!
07:14<peter1138>Never!
07:14<@planetmaker>:-(
07:14<peter1138>What would it add?
07:14<peter1138>V453000, back me up here ;p
07:14<Taede>e-road for thos electric buses?
07:14<@planetmaker>reason for HEQS. And easier implementation of road grfs. Thus better looks
07:15<@planetmaker>Not for realism sake
07:15<@planetmaker>it actually would already make sense when we only allow no additional road type :-)
07:15<@planetmaker>just from the GUI perspective
07:15<@planetmaker>not GUI. But possibility to replace roads via NewGRF
07:16<@planetmaker>as I then can draw roads w/o worrying about underground
07:17<andythenorth>peter1138: main benefit of roadtypes imo is tram tracks without catenary
07:17<andythenorth>is there another way to do that? o_O
07:18<andythenorth>it's just a few bits?
07:18<@planetmaker>eh, just replace tram catenary by void sprites. Done
07:18<andythenorth>I want both in a game :P
07:18<@planetmaker>that's an additional road type :-P
07:19<andythenorth>road types ain't never gonna happen :D
07:20<peter1138>Alright
07:23<frosch123>just add an option to recolour the default road types
07:23<frosch123>that's all that is being used abuot railtypes, isn't it? :p
07:23<frosch123>rgb road types :p
07:24<andythenorth>I'm pretty certain that the answer to roadtypes is to use railtypes
07:24<FLHerne>Can we have canaltypes? :D
07:24<andythenorth>canaltypes are railtypes
07:24<andythenorth>strictly wetrail
07:25*andythenorth is recoding FISH again btw, to be wetrail
07:25<FLHerne>Wide/narrow/deep/shallow/towpath-fitted
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07:28<peter1138>No but yeah but no.
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07:29<andythenorth>FLHerne: ask V453000
07:31<V453000>:)
07:32<V453000>peter1138 RGB company colours were awesome :(
07:32<V453000>where iz they
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07:32<V453000>roadtypes sounds useful
07:33<andythenorth>for what?
07:33<andythenorth>wetroads?
07:33<V453000>having road newGRFs more universal in general
07:33<andythenorth>meh
07:33<V453000>dont want to mix them with landscape/bridges
07:33<V453000>etc
07:34<V453000>I suppose having more roads with different appearance in 1 game could be cute too
07:34<V453000>e.g. dirt vs wetroad :P
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07:37<@planetmaker>wetroad would make more sense than wetrails... needs no signals :D
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07:39<V453000>pffft :D
07:40<V453000>go do it XD
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07:41<Eddi|zuHause>attention: driving side on wetroads must always be on the right, despite what road traffic side says
07:41<V453000>? :d
07:41<V453000>why
07:41<Eddi|zuHause>because ship traffic side is standardised on the whole world
07:42<V453000>lol
07:42<V453000> /care
07:42<V453000>naptime, bay
07:42<Eddi|zuHause>you MUST care about REALISM!!!
07:43<frosch123>"naptime" is quite realistic
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08:22<@Belugas>i agree
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08:36<ntoskrnl>hmmm, are the three first GetObjectType(t) --> _m[t].m5 changes appropriate in r25833?
08:37<ntoskrnl>http://vcs.openttd.org/git/?p=openttd/trunk.git;a=blobdiff;f=src/saveload/afterload.cpp;h=5f56b0a08e8ccedaa030e7ead6a341bd559f6937;hp=4643530aa4a5a0378a733eb394f9eb811c7de34b;hb=d9d978d6d2ec246fc59f794b62792c139055fadc;hpb=478500abbcb8f672fa0f5305d5b378c258b85687
08:37<ntoskrnl>those if conditions are before the block that actually does the conversion
08:38<ntoskrnl>wait
08:38<frosch123>that's why m5 is used, instead of GetObjectType
08:38<ntoskrnl>yeah, indeed
08:38<ntoskrnl>nevermind, i was confused
08:39<ntoskrnl>¨
08:45<andythenorth>hmm
08:45<andythenorth>why don't I just put the cargo capacity on the second slice of each vehicle?
08:45<andythenorth>instead of arsing around looking it up on the first slice?
08:46<frosch123>for the purchase list
08:47<frosch123>we still have no construction sandbox, which constructs artic vehicles in purchase list to get proper stats
08:47<andythenorth>I can sum those from the consist I have
08:47<andythenorth>special handling for buy menu
08:55<andythenorth>meh
08:55*andythenorth docs for articulated parts 'things that must be 0'
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09:13<zydeco>greetings, comrades
09:15<frosch123>hola
09:21<zydeco>is it possible that the admin interface doesn't send date updates every day if the server is too busy?
09:22<zydeco>I had this script that would save snapshots on day 1 of every month, but later in the game it has skipped a few
09:22<zydeco>when it has near 2000 vehicles
09:22<zydeco>I'll add some prints for next time
09:28<@DorpsGek>Commit by frosch :: r25860 /trunk/src (fontcache.cpp fontcache.h) (2013-10-13 13:28:06 UTC)
09:28<@DorpsGek>-Fix [FS#5737] (r25570): When clearing font cache, also clear layout cache. (adf88)
09:45<@DorpsGek>Commit by frosch :: r25861 /trunk/src (3 files in 2 dirs) (2013-10-13 13:44:58 UTC)
09:45<@DorpsGek>-Fix [FS#5760]: Scale linkgraph legend according to text dimensions.
09:49<@DorpsGek>Commit by frosch :: r25862 trunk/src/widget.cpp (2013-10-13 13:49:45 UTC)
09:49<@DorpsGek>-Fix [FS#5715] (r25729): Usage of implicit unsigned wrap around. (sbr)
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10:54<__ln__>http://pics.kuvaton.com/kuvei/quiz_4.jpg
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12:19<V453000>I have been drawing 1 fucking engine for 3 days o_0
12:19<zydeco>does it have many pixels?
12:21<V453000>not really
12:21<__ln__>more than one i hope
12:21<V453000>standard 8/8
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12:43<andythenorth>V453000: I have just spent an hour making firefox remove a 1 pixel border
12:43<andythenorth>your problems ~= my problems :P
12:43<V453000>LOL
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12:59<DanMacK>Hey all
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13:01<DanMacK>Wow, perfect timing lol
13:01<V453000>:D
13:01<V453000>CANT BE COINCIDENCE
13:02<DanMacK>yeah, right :P
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13:45<@DorpsGek>Commit by translators :: r25863 /trunk/src/lang (4 files) (2013-10-13 17:45:46 UTC)
13:45<@DorpsGek>-Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
13:45<@DorpsGek>arabic_egypt - 147 changes by abdXelrhman
13:45<@DorpsGek>german - 2 changes by planetmaker
13:46<@DorpsGek>japanese - 3 changes by guppy
13:46<@DorpsGek>polish - 2 changes by wojteks86
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14:02<V453000>frosch123: nani gogo? .P
14:03<frosch123>not watching
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14:05<V453000>äsdf
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14:39<frosch123>V453000: they still did not start
14:40<frosch123>but nani walked through the screen
14:40<V453000>in a few minutes
14:40<V453000>y
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14:40<V453000>im getting stuttering at Low :|
14:40<V453000>and I dont think its at my end
14:41<frosch123>it's never at your end
14:41<frosch123>and the quality thing is nonsense
14:41<frosch123>just try them all
14:42<frosch123>it happens ery often to me that the higher quality is more smooth
14:42<frosch123>i don'T see any logic there, just try which quality lever is the lucky one :)
14:42<V453000>mhm
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14:43<V453000>lol the highest quality is a lot better
14:43<frosch123>yup, that's often the case :p
14:43<V453000>weerd
14:44<V453000>I suppose it is because more people use the lower qualities
14:44<frosch123>it's software. don'T ask for logic
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14:46<V453000>XD
14:46<V453000>it might be nut infested
14:48<V453000>btw see the chat explode over you cant win alone by yourself advertisement XD
14:49<V453000>is awesome
14:49<frosch123>you are reading twitch chat? :o
14:49<frosch123>are you also in #tycoon ?
14:49<V453000>no XD
14:50<V453000>but I did read the chat when there was this advertisement as I wanted to see what they think about taht XD
14:50<frosch123>i am using the tl embedded stream usually, cause i have all the important links left and right
14:50<V453000>honestly there are only a few less useful things to read than twitch chat :-D
14:50<frosch123>but, ok, you do not needs stats in the finals anymore
14:50<V453000>meh dont care bout stats
14:56<frosch123>btw. your "in a few minutes" is already 20 minutes ago
14:56<frosch123>that's why i usually do not watch these big events
14:56<frosch123>they have these waiting times, during which you cannot do anything really
14:58<frosch123>let's try to make my checkout compile instead
14:59<V453000>cd
14:59<V453000>xd
14:59<V453000>well I draw in the meantime so I dont really care about time :)
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15:04<V453000>LMFAO I WANT THAT HAT XD
15:04<frosch123>tod's or from the map drawer guy?
15:04<V453000>map drawer
15:04<V453000>oh god this is awesome
15:04<frosch123>what is it?
15:05<frosch123>i cannot quite identify it
15:05<V453000>OVERLORD
15:05<V453000>:(
15:05<V453000>:)))
15:05<frosch123>oh!
15:05-!-oskari89 [oskari89@62-241-226-106.bb.dnainternet.fi] has quit []
15:05<frosch123>yeah, now that i know it, it is cool :p
15:05<V453000>ok christmas gift idea for friend is solved XD
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15:09<LordAro>/o
15:09<frosch123>that have not have been 18 hours
15:10<LordAro>apparently not
15:10<LordAro>but my body clock is completely screwed up at the moment :L
15:10<frosch123>what kind of 24 hour live stream did you do?
15:11<LordAro>lan party
15:11<frosch123>what games?
15:12<LordAro>tf2 and LoL, mainly
15:12<LordAro>although i did see a few people playing ottd :)
15:12<V453000>XD
15:12<frosch123>hmm, it that the analogue thing to cs and bw in my youth?
15:14<LordAro>(assuming cs == counter strike) people were playihng that too, although admittedly not the version you're probably familiar with :P
15:14<LordAro>not sure what bw is though
15:14<frosch123>likely :p 1.1 was the last one i played
15:14<V453000>brooodwarrrr
15:14<LordAro>oh, starcraft
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15:15<LordAro>yep, people playing that too, although it was likely version 2 ;)
15:15<V453000>that isnt broodwar anymore :P
15:15<frosch123>you call that hots
15:15<frosch123>not bw 2 :p
15:16<lavalava>hi all
15:16*LordAro hasn't played sc at all
15:16<LordAro>can you guess? :p
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15:16<frosch123>sure
15:16<frosch123>you wouldn't play lol otherwise :p
15:17<LordAro>i didn't play lol
15:18<@DorpsGek>Commit by frosch :: r25864 /trunk/src (5 files) (2013-10-13 19:18:30 UTC)
15:18<@DorpsGek>-Fix: Use the actual sprite dimensions for sizing the dropdown arrow of dropdown widgets.
15:21<peter1138>Heh, I had patches to rework all that stuff to be consistent...
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15:22<peter1138>There are/were two different sets of arrows which are slightly different.
15:22<peter1138>Depended if it was done as a text or sprite draw, heh.
15:24<frosch123>i guess we need to do a game with forced biggui on everyone
15:24<frosch123>to find all those broken places
15:24<peter1138>And huge/tiny fonts.
15:24<frosch123>and someone will have to play with arabic or hewbrew :p
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15:26<frosch123>i think roaches should not regenerate while borrowed and being shot at
15:26<frosch123>like reapers or mutas
15:31<V453000>mhm
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16:11<@DorpsGek>Commit by zuu :: r25865 /trunk/src (4 files) (2013-10-13 20:11:05 UTC)
16:11<@DorpsGek>-Codechange: Refactor detecting of depot vehicle type of a tile to a new function, GetDepotVehicleType (cirdan, LordAro)
16:12<@DorpsGek>Commit by frosch :: r25866 trunk/src/lang/arabic_egypt.txt (2013-10-13 20:12:11 UTC)
16:12<@DorpsGek>-Fix: Arabic
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17:03<frosch123>night
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17:30<Wolf01>'night all
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17:46<DanMacK>Hey all
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17:51<JVassie>Could anyone reccomend a program for Windows that will take a true colour .png and allow me to save it out as an 8-bit .png that grfcodec will play nicely with please?
17:51<LordAro>gimp usually does everything
17:52<JVassie>I have the true colour png open in gimp as we speak
17:52<Supercheese>Mode -> Indexed
17:52<Supercheese>then you can download a palette
17:52<Supercheese>lemme grab the link
17:52<LordAro>^
17:52<JVassie>ta
17:53<Supercheese>http://dev.openttdcoop.org/documents/1
17:53<Supercheese>ttd-newgrf-dos.gpl should be good for all newgrf purposes
17:53<Supercheese>If you want to be sure to not accidentally include action colors, grab the noaction version
17:54<JVassie>I tend to do my actual dev work in MS paint
17:54<JVassie>:p
17:54<JVassie>just need to convert it for now
17:54<Supercheese>There's also a batch-convert gimp script
17:54<JVassie>most of my sprite work is done
17:54<Supercheese>for even easier conversion
17:55<JVassie>DO i need to put the palettes in a specific folder? Can't seem to find a picker within the palettes window
17:55<Supercheese>The palette picker is hidden, lemme see...
17:56<Supercheese>Windows -> Dockable Dialogues -> Palettes
17:56<Supercheese>Right click on the list -> Import palette -> from file
17:56<Supercheese>rather buried :S
17:56<JVassie>ah hah
17:56<JVassie>was the right click menu i needed, thx :)
17:56<Supercheese>Took me a while to find that
17:58<JVassie>normal export settings for .png should work?
17:59<Supercheese>I use older GIMP where I just save to .png, I hate the new Save vs. Export dichotomy
17:59<Supercheese>but yeah, default should work
17:59<JVassie>righteo
17:59<JVassie>here goes :p
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18:03<JVassie>hmm, now complains it isn't a 256 colour file
18:03<JVassie>>.>
18:04<Supercheese>Make sure you didn't check "remove unused colors"
18:04<Supercheese>Revert to mode->RGB, then back to mode->indexed
18:04<Supercheese>uncheck that box
18:04<Supercheese>(forgot to mention that)
18:05<JVassie>ahh
18:05<JVassie>removing unused colours
18:05<Supercheese>you want to leave all 256 index entries
18:05<JVassie>gotcha
18:05<Supercheese>or else, as you see, grfcodec will complain
18:06<JVassie>works a treat, ta :)
18:06<Supercheese>:D
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19:09<carpii>i have a truck run which is sending goods from a factory to a town, but the town keeps changing from accepting goods, to not accepting goods every few months. Is there a way I can influence the town to accept them permanently ?
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---Logclosed Mon Oct 14 00:00:01 2013