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#openttd IRC Logs for 2013-10-20

---Logopened Sun Oct 20 00:00:12 2013
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02:34<Supercheese>Uh oh, going over the English strings when translating I've found yet another case of non-unified capitalization...
02:35<Supercheese>too sleepy now, I'll report later
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04:02<scshunt>planetmaker: are you finnish?
04:03<@planetmaker>not exactly
04:03<@Rubidium>if he were, he'd omit the n
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04:05<@planetmaker>btw, I just saw last evening, that OpenTTD has a seven page article in the current German linux magazine
04:06<@planetmaker>moin andythenorth
04:09<@Rubidium>what's "current"? The November one?
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04:09<@Rubidium>or am I looking at the wrong Linux-Magazin(.de)
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04:12<andythenorth>No alberth
04:13<@planetmaker>I just try to find it online, too. it was 11/2013. Maybe the magazine had a slightly different name :-)
04:13<@planetmaker>saw it at a friend's house
04:13<@Rubidium> has one though
04:14<@Rubidium>unless you meant
04:14<@planetmaker>^ yeah
04:17<@Rubidium>damn... that's quite an article
04:19<@Rubidium> <- it's in the community edition ;)
04:20<@planetmaker>oh, indeed
04:20<@Rubidium>so... more notability for wikipedia
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04:26<@planetmaker>in any case, it's a nice review article, I think. The choice of used NewGRFs is interesting, though :-)
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04:26<@Rubidium>and there are some errors
04:26<@Rubidium>Micropolis GPLv3, Simutrans GPL, OpenTTD frei
04:26<@planetmaker>moin Alberth
04:26<@planetmaker>yeah, I wonder about their distinction
04:26<@planetmaker>probably mixed-up
04:31<Wolf01>hello Alberth
04:31<@planetmaker>hm, should we start our own link page in our wiki, Rubidium ?
04:31<@planetmaker>like 'OpenTTD in the press'?
04:31<@Rubidium>feel free ;)
04:32<@Rubidium>though the notability thing was more because they once threatend to remove openttd, so I cited everything that they would think of as being a reliable third party source (even though some sources are just plain incorrect)
04:32<@Rubidium>(remove it from wikipedia)
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04:45<@planetmaker>yeah, I recall. wikipedia admins sometimes have a strange sense of 'notable'
04:48<TinoDidriksen>It is (or was) official Wikipedia policy to require dead tree media to have mentioned something for it to be notable.
04:48<@planetmaker>that alone is not sufficient how I experienced a few times. Then I gave up to edit wikipedia
04:53<@Rubidium>but openttd is mentioned in dead tree stuff
04:53<@Rubidium>namely the proceedings of some papers about an AI ;)
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04:53<@planetmaker>even several thesiss
04:54<@planetmaker>well. One thesis. Several thesises?
04:54<@Rubidium>though that's American
04:54<@planetmaker>interesting. ye
04:55<@Rubidium>my dead tree oxford dictionary says the same
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05:12<peter1138>Theses sounds like faeces, hurr
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06:58<frosch123>"dead tree" is an interesting term
07:00<@Rubidium>frosch123: thinking about biomass electricity?
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07:21<frosch123>hyro is so obsessed with back seat moderation. when you check topics from 2012 and older, he is moderating everywhere, despite of not being a moderator :p
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07:49<gynter>If I checkout revision 25632 why can't I play in 1.3.2 servers?
07:49<LordAro>because 25632 != 1.3.2
07:49<gynter>(svn r25632) -Release: 1.3.2
07:50<LordAro>you need to build the branch, rather than trunk
07:50<peter1138>You want the tag
07:50<gynter>1.3 branch?
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09:22*andythenorth just found a sensible way to cut 50 classes / subclasses down to 7
09:22<andythenorth>as getting stinky
09:22<andythenorth>was *
09:22<V453000>I found the way to cut all day classes down to beer years ago
09:22<andythenorth>good technique
09:23<V453000>took serious effort finding out
09:23<andythenorth>Alberth: simple dict vs. a little property holding class....what's a good reason for latter? o_O
09:23<andythenorth>currently I am favouring dict
09:23<@Alberth>V453000: and lots of continuous training :)
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09:25<@Alberth>andythenorth: documenting meaning of data, deriving new values by combining values, perhaps easier syntax(?)
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09:28<andythenorth>@property decorator
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09:29<andythenorth>trying to have less architecture :)
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09:35<@DorpsGek>Commit by fonsinchen :: r25887 trunk/src/core/pool_type.hpp (2013-10-20 13:35:35 UTC)
09:35<@DorpsGek>-Fix: Ignore NULL pointers in delete operator of PoolItem.
09:45<@DorpsGek>Commit by fonsinchen :: r25888 /trunk (5 files in 2 dirs) (2013-10-20 13:45:50 UTC)
09:45<@DorpsGek>-Codechange: Add a smallstack type.
09:46<@DorpsGek>Commit by fonsinchen :: r25889 trunk/src/core/smallstack_type.hpp (2013-10-20 13:46:14 UTC)
09:46<@DorpsGek>-Codechange: Add forgotten file.
09:47<@DorpsGek>Commit by fonsinchen :: r25890 /trunk/src (station.cpp station_type.h) (2013-10-20 13:47:11 UTC)
09:47<@DorpsGek>-Codechange: define a smallstack for station IDs
09:48<@DorpsGek>Commit by fonsinchen :: r25891 /trunk/src (7 files) (2013-10-20 13:47:58 UTC)
09:48<@DorpsGek>-Feature: Use smallstack to allow for multiple next hops when loading and unloading.
10:01<NGC3982>What do you people think is the best way for me, if i want to add -everything- in the online content to my Ubuntu server?
10:01<NGC3982>Terminal only.
10:04<peter1138>Definitely not using the in-game content downloader. That would be *far* too easy.
10:05<Xaroth|Work>why the hell do you want -all- the content?
10:06<NGC3982>Well, "everything" was a stretch. All the NewGRF's would be nice.
10:06<peter1138>Xaroth|Work, cos then you can set up a game with your client, upload it to the server, and now worry about having the GRFs local.
10:06<NGC3982>Exactly. :P
10:06<Xaroth|Work>waste of hdd space tbqfh
10:06<peter1138>NGC3982, seriously, fire up the daemon, and type "content" on the server.;
10:06<NGC3982>peter1138: :-O
10:07<Xaroth|Work>NGC3982: you know he's trolling you, right?
10:07<NGC3982>Xaroth|Work: No, i did not. It sounded perfectly logical. :(
10:07<peter1138>Am I?
10:07<NGC3982>For god sake.
10:07<peter1138>[2013-10-20 15:06:48] - Query, select and download content. Usage: 'content update|upgrade|select [all|id]|unselect [all|id]|state|download'
10:07<NGC3982>I'm being trolled about being trolled.
10:08<peter1138>There actually is a magic "all" there...
10:09<NGC3982>I'll look into it. Thank you.
10:10<peter1138>Xaroth|Work, as if I would :p
10:10<Xaroth|Work>you? never
10:14<andythenorth>Alberth: passing config objects in parameters ftw :)
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10:27<@DorpsGek>Commit by fonsinchen :: r25892 /trunk/src (station_base.h station_cmd.cpp) (2013-10-20 14:27:36 UTC)
10:27<@DorpsGek>-Fix: off-by-one error in GetVia prevented certain flows from getting picked
10:31<NGC3982>How big is the complete online-content?
10:31<Xaroth|Work>few gig
10:31*NGC3982 downloads everything.
10:33<FLHerne>NGC3982: Don't do that :P
10:33<NGC3982>Why not? :(
10:33<Xaroth|Work>because it's stupid
10:33<FLHerne>If nothing else, it's no good for BaNaNaS hosting
10:34<NGC3982>Ah, i see.
10:34<Xaroth|Work>hosting of bananas is gifted mostly
10:34<FLHerne>And every time you want to use a file in your game you'll have to look through a list of hundreds of things you never cared about
10:35<FLHerne>You can't use more than 64 NewGRFs, 15 (?) AIs, one heightmap or scenario and one gamescript at the same time anyway
10:36<V453000>seriously if your server doesnt have everything it can be huge pain in the ass to add those newGRFs when loading game
10:36<V453000>I even think it would be nice to have the option to download older versions of newGRFs to server
10:36<NGC3982>Well, if it hurtz BaNaNaS, ill stay out of it. Though, the reason for downloading everything is so that i don't have to bother with downloading NewGRF's to the server, each time i export a new save game to my server.
10:36<V453000>how should downloading hurt bananas if it is made for it ...
10:37<NGC3982>I guess i could rsync the local NewGRF catalogue with the server one..
10:37<@Alberth>NGC3982: that's a false assumption, things get updated
10:37<NGC3982>Or simply have a click fest.
10:37<NGC3982>Alberth: Yes, and that's also an issue.
10:38<NGC3982>This feels like more work than fruit.
10:38<FLHerne>Perhaps something that extracted the MD5sums from a savegame and compared against the grf folder would be handy
10:38<@Alberth>my guess is you don't need about 80% of the newgrfs
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10:48<@DorpsGek>Commit by fonsinchen :: r25893 /trunk/src/core (random_func.cpp random_func.hpp) (2013-10-20 14:48:08 UTC)
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10:48<@DorpsGek>-Fix: Document RandomRange and change misleading parameter name 'max' in random functions.
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10:50<Taede>so from an admin-port app point of view, how does one download the necessary grfs to load a particular savegame?
10:51<Eddi|zuHause>is there a parameter to the "load" command?
10:52<Eddi|zuHause>like "load <file> --download-missing"?
10:52<V453000>possible but I dont know about it (yet) :)
10:53<Taede>not listed on the openttd wiki if there is
10:53<Eddi|zuHause>then write it :)
10:53<Eddi|zuHause>ca. 10 LOC, i see your patch in an hour, ok? :p
10:54<Taede>i'll just use the autopilot way for now
10:54<Eddi|zuHause>how does autopilot do it?
10:55<Taede>content update, select all, upgrade, download
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11:06<NGC3982>Not being that familiar with Linux and programs. I have installed 1.3.2 by downloading the package from the site, and installing it with dpkg. If a new version comes along, should i simply download it and re-do the procedure?
11:07<Eddi|zuHause>or you find a repo for your package manager that contains the update
11:09<@Alberth>that package doesn't include the baseset, afaik
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11:09<NGC3982>I guess i forgot an update or something, but downloading via apt-get installed 1.4.0 or something.
11:11<LordAro>i doubt that
11:11<@Alberth>of what? OpenTTD 1.4 stable has not been released yet
11:12<LordAro>source please! :p
11:12<@Alberth>yeah, it would be interesting to know what we will implement :p
11:15<NGC3982>0.4.0 or something*
11:15<LordAro>that's approximately 7 years old
11:16<LordAro>what linux distro do you have?
11:16<NGC3982>Please take the "or something" as the main part of this situation.
11:16<NGC3982>It's on Ubuntu 12.04.
11:17<LordAro>that would be 1.1.4 then ;)
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11:17<LordAro>still, 2.5 years old now
11:17<Eddi|zuHause>0.4.0 was only available for a week :p
11:17<Eddi|zuHause>it was immediately replaced by
11:17<NGC3982>Why isn't aptitude updated?
11:18<NGC3982>Or did i missunderstand this.
11:18<LordAro>only security fixes are backported
11:18<LordAro>you want to upgrade to 13.10 to get (almost) latest
11:18<LordAro>s/13.10/ubuntu 13.10/
11:18<@Alberth> opengfx seems to have 0.4.7 as latest stable release
11:18<Eddi|zuHause>maybe with 1.4.x it meant lightles?
11:19<@Alberth>with ubuntu, I'd guess that's an option :)
11:19<LordAro>doubt it
11:19<LordAro>especially not 12.04:
11:20<Eddi|zuHause>i think you're jumping to conclusions without all necessary data
11:20<LordAro>wait, now i'm confused
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12:33<Supercheese>Aww, there's no ship disasters in OTTD, I wanted to translate "Shipwreck" as "Naufragium"
12:33<Supercheese>one of my favorite Latin words
12:33<FLHerne>Supercheese: Do the mysterious subs count?
12:34<Supercheese>I don't think any ship actually is destroyed though
12:35<FLHerne>Nope :-(
12:35*FLHerne would quite like a 'realistic disasters' setting
12:35<__ln__>feature request
12:35<Supercheese>__ln__: definitely
12:35<Supercheese>"Add this feature to the game, for the Latin translation would be awesome"
12:36<Supercheese>best reasoning ever
12:36<FLHerne>So shipwrecks, mine collapses, maybe something shiny like tornadoes or fires but not the stupid UFO things
12:36<Supercheese>mine subsidences are already in game
12:37<frosch123>shall we replace the ufos with unicorns?
12:37<Supercheese>In fact, I'm translating that string right now ;)
12:37<FLHerne>Supercheese: I know that ;-)
12:37<Supercheese>"Ignotus volans unicornis"
12:37<__ln__>FLHerne: floods that destroy railways and roads would be quite r*********
12:38<FLHerne>Supercheese: What I mean is that additional realistic disasters would be nice instead of (or inaddition to for the crazy people) the silly ones would be nice
12:38<Supercheese>Floods in game too
12:38<Supercheese>but of course only due to bad terraforming :P
12:38<FLHerne>Supercheese: Yeah, that doesn't really count
12:38<FLHerne>You have to do something ridiculously stupid to cause any real damage by flooding
12:39<FLHerne>Occasional flooding from rivers would be neat, perhaps
12:40<FLHerne>Don't build on floodplains :P
12:42<Supercheese>Hmm, I need accusative town names...
12:43<Supercheese>but I very much doubt town name grfs provide accusative forms
12:43<Supercheese>well, maybe the Latin one does :P
12:43<Supercheese>genitive forms would be nice too
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12:46<__ln__>how about just "civitam Townname", or does the name need to flex even in that case?
12:46<Supercheese>I wonder if the base town names even have cases...
12:46<Supercheese>Well, "Oil refinery explosion near {TOWN}!"
12:47<Supercheese>I'm not sure how to construct a translation only using a nominative there
12:47<Supercheese>the most direct route is obviously "... apud {TOWN.acc}!"
12:48<Supercheese>other adverbs/prepositions would work too
12:49<__ln__>other languages would also benefit from accusatives of townnames
12:49<Supercheese>Inspecting the Greek translation, they do not use accusatives in these strings, which is interesting
12:50<Supercheese>perhaps the translator just said, "well, town names don't provide cases so there's nothing I can do"...
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13:05<Supercheese>Hmm, station names also need to be accusative in many instances...
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15:06<andythenorth>this editor supports folding
15:06<andythenorth>who knew? :P
15:07<@Rubidium>how often can it fold the same piece?
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15:09<andythenorth>7 times
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15:11<andythenorth>passing a string because the thing I want to refer to doesn't exist yet :P
15:11<andythenorth>why can't python predict the future?
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15:15<Xaroth|Work> you can import antigravity though
15:19<andythenorth>I hope I haven't left too many default values behind in get()
15:19<andythenorth>otherwise my compile is failing silently :P
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15:33<frosch123>does anyone use code folding?
15:33<frosch123>i have seen many editors which support it, but never anyone using it
15:34<Xaroth|Work>very occasionally
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15:38<andythenorth>I am using it today
15:38<andythenorth>it's probably a sign of too much stuff in one file :P
15:39<frosch123>do you use it more often than conditional orders in ottd?
15:40<Japa>Code folding is when you smaller-ize parts of the code, right?
15:40<Japa>I use that... um... not often
15:40<frosch123>yes, collapsing if-else and such
15:45<@DorpsGek>Commit by planetmaker :: r25894 trunk/src/order_gui.cpp (2013-10-20 19:45:27 UTC)
15:45<@DorpsGek>-Change: Unify behaviour when clicking on different items in the goto dropdown list when giving orders (adf88)
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17:26<Wolf01>'night all
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17:42<help_please>i need help
17:42<Supercheese>I gathered from your username :P
17:42<__ln__>who would have guessed, indeed
17:42<help_please>i know
17:43<help_please>that was the point
17:43<Supercheese>explain your problem
17:43<LordAro>@topic get 3
17:43<@DorpsGek>LordAro: Don't ask to ask, just ask
17:43<help_please>when i start an openttd server it says could not start server
17:44<LordAro>i doubt that's all it says...
17:44<help_please>how do i fix this?
17:44<help_please>thats all i get in a red error box message
17:44<Supercheese>I know very very little about multiplayer stuff, sorry
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17:45<help_please>does anyone else know about multiplayer stuff?
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17:46<LordAro>the string "could not start server" does not appear anywhere in the source code
17:47<LordAro>but, are you using a different language (other than english) ?
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17:50<LordAro>you need a proper nickname ;)
17:50<LordAro>(i'm assuming you are "help_please")
17:50<LordAro>you have exactly the same hostname
17:50<LordAro>that could be the web client however
17:51<Openttd>i use the same computer as him
17:51<Openttd>and same user
17:52<@planetmaker>quite a presumptious username, no?
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17:52<LordAro>either way, "Openttd" is a ...
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17:52<LordAro>ok, i don't believe you anymore
17:52<help_please>hi (again)
17:54<help_please>help me about my previous question please
17:54<LordAro>"<LordAro> the string "could not start server" does not appear anywhere in the source code
17:54<LordAro><LordAro> but, are you using a different language (other than english) ?"
17:54<LordAro>we need the _exact_ message to be able to help you
17:55<@planetmaker>do you try to start a dedicated or non-dedicated server?
17:55<help_please>i use "english US"
17:55<help_please>non dedicated
17:55<LordAro>again, the string "could not start server" does not appear, anywhere
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17:56<help_please>message "Could not start the server" red error message
17:56<help_please>just opened game and checked
17:56<LordAro>"grep -rni 'could not start server' src" results in no results
17:57<LordAro>again, the string "could not start server" does not appear, anywhere
17:57<Supercheese>"could not start the server", perhaps
17:57<LordAro>damn, sorry
17:57<help_please>this problem has gone on all day
17:57<help_please>and i have tried to fix it for hours
17:58<help_please>also after the error message it uses same settings for world gen and leads me singleplayer
17:58<@planetmaker>the server will - without the config file telling it otherwise - try to bind to your IP and the default port
17:58<@planetmaker>if that is not available, it will fail with the mentioned message
17:59<LordAro>basically, your network connection is screwed up slightly
17:59<help_please>what config file
17:59<help_please>i have seen that file
17:59<@planetmaker>chapter 4.2 in the readme tells you where to find it. Depends on OS
17:59<help_please>in documents
17:59<LordAro>if you don't know, it'll probably be in My Documents/OpenTTD
18:00<@planetmaker>there are also the network settings. Maybe you also configured a IP address there which you don't own
18:00<@planetmaker>(if you edited it)
18:00<@planetmaker>or you are not allowed to open ports
18:00<@DorpsGek>planetmaker: OpenTTD uses TCP and UDP port 3979 for server <-> client communication, UDP port 3978 for masterserver (advertise) communication (outbound), and TCP port 3978 for content service, a.k.a. BaNaNaS (outbound)
18:00<help_please>i opened command prompt and typed "ipconfig/all" and entered that Ipv6 ip
18:01<help_please>it uses port 3979
18:02<help_please>ive been using port 3979
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18:03<help_please>ive been using port 3979 and my ipv6 ip adress e.g. 192.168.1.xx
18:04<@planetmaker>192.168.1.xx is not IPv6
18:04<@planetmaker>that's IPv4
18:04<help_please>i mix those 2 up
18:05<LordAro> is a local ip address too, not an external one
18:05<@planetmaker>that, too. But you can create a (local) server then
18:05<help_please>im trying to play with family in same network since im a kid
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18:06<help_please>im trying for local play
18:06<help_please>yet every time i try to start server i get that error message
18:06<@planetmaker>I would bet that some personal firewall disallows you to start a server by disallowing it to bind to the port
18:06<help_please>it worked before though
18:07<@planetmaker>then... what did you change? Undo that change to your system config :-)
18:07<help_please>i never changed the config file
18:08<@planetmaker>even though it may feel like, it's not openttd which fails, it's your OS failing to provide the required ressources.
18:09<help_please>so do i change firewall settings?
18:09<LordAro>help_please: suggestion: delete openttd.cfg file, restart computer
18:10<@planetmaker>yes, of course you have to configure your firewall to allow starting a server
18:10<help_please>my openttd.cfg file has stuff in it though LordAro
18:10<@planetmaker>rename it
18:11<@planetmaker>then you can copy it back later
18:11<help_please>ill try that
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18:12<help_please>it worked
18:13<help_please>thank you
18:13<help_please>now to copy the data back
18:13<LordAro>i'm impressed with your restart time
18:13<help_please>i didnt have to restart my computer
18:14<help_please>i had to rename openttd.cfg file and open openttd
18:14<help_please>bye and thank you again
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18:15<@planetmaker>strange how resetting to defaults fixes the issue, if the defaults were never changed :-)
18:15<LordAro>windows is strange ;)
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---Logclosed Mon Oct 21 00:00:13 2013