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#openttd IRC Logs for 2013-10-27

---Logopened Sun Oct 27 00:00:22 2013
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04:01<@Terkhen>good morning
04:01<Taede>mornin
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04:05<V453000>evening
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04:17<zydeco>greetings, comrades
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04:34<Wolf01>hi hi
04:35<@planetmaker>bon jour
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04:58<Wolf01>o/ Alberth
05:00<@Rubidium>'oi
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05:07<@Alberth>hi hi
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06:49<frosch123>Taede: i fail to reproduce fs#5793
06:51<Taede>what happens instead, does it get handled correctly?
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06:51<frosch123>yes
06:52<frosch123>i started with -D -g bla.sav
06:52<frosch123>do you maybe have some other save loaded before?
06:52<Taede>yes
06:52<Taede>we tried loading the game via adminport/rcon
06:52<Taede>on a running server
06:53<frosch123>i would think that something is not properly cleared/reset when loading a game
06:53<frosch123>so something from the old save survives the loading and does not match the new game
06:53<Taede>old save would be a randomly-generated map
06:53<frosch123>but likely with vehicles and stuff?
06:53<Taede>no, bare map
06:53<frosch123>hmm
06:54<Taede>just towns and industries
06:54<Taede>no companies
06:54<andythenorth>o/
06:55<Taede>just start it with -D and it should generate a random map, then use rcon to load one of the savegames
06:57<@planetmaker>frosch123, you are free to join #openttdcoop.dev to test that :-)
06:57<@planetmaker>hello also :-)
06:57<Taede>actually, .dev works fine now as we sorted the newgrfs
06:57<@planetmaker>true. Easy to remove them again :D
06:58<Taede>yup
06:58<Taede>i think the trick is that the newer savegames do have vehicles, and cargodist. when it fails to load, it doesnt unload everything correctly and it cant generate a new random map
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07:49<frosch123>some of the more rarely used windows in ottd are really wtf :)
07:50<andythenorth>:)
07:50<andythenorth>personally, I'd vote the vehicle colour gui as wtf
07:51<frosch123>i am currently at custom currency
07:51<andythenorth>"oh my, I have to both check the box AND set the colour in a drop down"
07:51<frosch123>why are there blue buttons :p
07:51<@planetmaker>:-)
07:51<@DorpsGek>Commit by fonsinchen :: r25915 trunk/src/station_cmd.cpp (2013-10-27 11:51:14 UTC)
07:51<@DorpsGek>-Fix: Unrestricted flow was counted incorrectly when invalidating flow.
07:51<@planetmaker>consistent GUI ftw :D
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07:52<andythenorth>consistency is over-rated
07:55<frosch123>well, there are two levels of consistencies :)
07:55<frosch123>one is about having ok/cancel buttons in all windows in the same order
07:55<frosch123>one is about opening a window and not knowing how to use it :)
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07:56-!-Eddi|zuHause2 is now known as Eddi|zuHause
07:57<Eddi|zuHause>yeah, i'm seriously puzzled by "[no] [yes]" windws every time :P
08:03<andythenorth>Cancel | Do Thing
08:03<andythenorth>always a winner
08:03<andythenorth>except when you need something different
08:05<alluke>why cant scenario editor accept .sav files
08:05<alluke>continupus renaming gets annoying
08:05<Eddi|zuHause>because nobody made it happen
08:05<Eddi|zuHause>just change the filter in the load window
08:05<Eddi|zuHause>10LOC
08:05<Eddi|zuHause>possibly apply different colours
08:05<Eddi|zuHause>another 10LOC
08:06<Eddi|zuHause>expect your patch in 2 hours :)
08:06<Eddi|zuHause>(i won't be here then, anyway)
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08:20<frosch123>https://secure.openttd.org/wiki/Todo_BigGUI <- Eddi|zuHause: i also have a new list of thing to do :p
08:23<Eddi|zuHause>i did swear to never touch GUI code ever again :p
08:23<Eddi|zuHause>anybody seen my cell phone?
08:23<Eddi|zuHause>i had it in my hand yesterday thinking "put this somewhere you remember"
08:23<Eddi|zuHause>and that's always when i will never find them again :p
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08:27<Eddi|zuHause>oh it somehow fell under between bed and matrace... i wonder how that worked
09:04<zydeco>mattress*
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09:31<juanjo>hi
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09:36<kero>hi
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09:46<andythenorth>@seen danmack
09:46<@DorpsGek>andythenorth: danmack was last seen in #openttd 22 hours, 50 minutes, and 13 seconds ago: <DanMacK> Hey all
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11:09<@DorpsGek>Commit by frosch :: r25916 /trunk (8 files in 4 dirs) (2013-10-27 15:09:41 UTC)
11:09<@DorpsGek>-Add: GUI sprite for the smallmap cargoflow button. (frosch, planetmaker, V453000)
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12:07<sla_ro|master>i
12:07<sla_ro|master>hi
12:08<@planetmaker>hello
12:08<kero>Mmh I'm maybee wrong, but wasn't it possible to zoom the mini-map more some time ago ?
12:10<@planetmaker>I'm quite sure not :-)
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12:10<kero>mmh ok ... Probably an old memory of an old state of the cargodist patch
12:11<Supercheese>You can zoom it out
12:11<kero>It would be nice to be able to have a greater zoom.
12:11<Supercheese>I take it you mean zoom in
12:11<kero>I confirm.
12:13<kero>I'm telling that because some industries (little industries) are really hard to find on the mini-map. Sometimes impossible to see.
12:14<Supercheese>Yeah, 2-tile town industries are difficult
12:14<Supercheese>Even with the very helpful 'hover over name and flash on map'
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12:26<@planetmaker>kero, select the industry view on the minimap. And select the type you're interested in
12:26<@planetmaker>The blinking should be rather obvious
12:27<kero>With some industries, even with the blinking you don't them at all
12:27<Supercheese>Key word being "should", as it isn't always
12:27<kero>+ see
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12:30<kero>mmh didn't thought about that before, but de-activating town names makes it easier to find them
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12:35<@Alberth>yep, I disable town names always directly, it's not interesting enough :)
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12:39<Supercheese>same
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13:45<@DorpsGek>Commit by translators :: r25917 trunk/src/lang/spanish.txt (2013-10-27 17:45:08 UTC)
13:45<@DorpsGek>-Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
13:45<@DorpsGek>spanish - 1 changes by Terkhen
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14:45<Supercheese>Would it be a good idea to post my WIP Latin translation on the forums? Are there enough folks who know Latin to help proofread?
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14:48<@planetmaker>only one way to find out :-)
14:48<Supercheese>Valid
14:48<@planetmaker>worst what could happen is that a bunch of people call you 'nut head' or so :-)
14:49*Rubidium knows he's bad enough in Latin not to try proofreading it
14:55<Eddi|zuHause>i know practically nothing of latin
15:01<Supercheese>I'm very glad for the Latin translation of Wesnoth, it is a wealth of relevant computer game terminology
15:02<@Rubidium>maybe ask in their (=wesnoth-la) IRC channel
15:02<Supercheese>Indeed, I had considered that
15:03<Supercheese>Of course, someone familiar with OTTD would be best suited to the task
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15:05<@planetmaker>I would actually expect at least one to four people make some reasonable comments :-)
15:05<@planetmaker>reviewing a lot of 4k strings is a lot though :-)
15:05<Supercheese>Man, as if OTTD didn't have enough strings, Wesnoth has ≈ 62766 strings
15:06<@planetmaker>hoho :-)
15:06<@planetmaker>But they have stories to tell. So, yes :-)
15:06<Supercheese>http://www.wesnoth.org/gettext/index.lang.php?version=branch&package=&lang=la
15:07<@Rubidium>too bad roman numeral are kinda unusable in OpenTTD
15:08<Supercheese>Roman numerals are bleh for anything other than about 1-20
15:09<Supercheese>I have no problems with using arabic numerals everywhere
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15:20<Eddi|zuHause>i'm pretty sure even the romans would have switched to arabic numbers somewhen in the last 2000 years
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15:21<Supercheese>I learned more about the history of various world currencies when translating them to Latin than I ever have before
15:22<Supercheese>Apparently more than half of all European currencies were some variant of "crown" (corona)
15:22<Eddi|zuHause>when were the arabic numberals widely introduced to europe? 16th century?
15:22<Supercheese>krone, krona, koruna, krooni, etc.
15:23<@planetmaker>or from 'gold'
15:23<Eddi|zuHause>yeah, a lot of the german currencies
15:23<peter1138>bum bum bum, satellite of love
15:24<Eddi|zuHause>one of the more weird currency names is "Taler" (from german "Tal" = "valley")
15:24<frosch123>sounds like blümchen, but i hope that was never translated to english
15:24<Eddi|zuHause>("Dollar" is derived from that)
15:24<@planetmaker>I doubt that "Taler" comes from "Tal"
15:25<frosch123>Eddi|zuHause: heller, taler, mark, kreutzer, schilling, more?
15:25<Supercheese>Yep, I translated "Slovenian Tolar" as "Dollarium Slovenicum"
15:25<@planetmaker>rather from zahlen
15:25<@planetmaker>betalen
15:25<frosch123>there is also "talent"
15:25<Supercheese>cf. US Dollar = "Dollarium CFA"
15:26<kero>Little question: why the FIRS industries' boxes show a string "Cargo waiting to be processed", as they actually process immediately (all) cargo ?
15:26<Eddi|zuHause>planetmaker: well, very likely that some "etymologies" are actually "back-interpretations"
15:26<frosch123>kero: because ottd has no feature to suppress that string
15:27<frosch123>it is displayed for all custom production mechanics
15:27<kero>oh, that's the thing. thx
15:27<Eddi|zuHause>because when TTDPatch introduced the production callback, it assumed that everyone who used that would use the stockpile mechanism
15:28<Eddi|zuHause>and openttd just ported over the behaviour
15:29<kero>Je vois.
15:29<andythenorth>that industry window is on the list of 'things I ought to learn how to patch'
15:30<andythenorth>although my motivation to try and patch stuff is pretty much nil, due to the spec arguments :P
15:31<kero>I was wondering if maybee only *some* industries in *some* particular context are stockpiling
15:31<Eddi|zuHause>just amend the spec by a flag "no stockpiles with production callback"
15:32<Eddi|zuHause>which makes the callback called immediately on input cargo, and suppresses that display
15:32<@Rubidium>must say Latin wikipedia pages about recent stuff are easier to have their meaning guessed than old Latin texts ;)
15:33*kero discovers that there actually is a latin version of wiki
15:34<frosch123>in school we used latin publications of the eu commission
15:34<kero>Rubidium : that's probably because sentences construction is closer to modern ones
15:34<frosch123>you could cheat by reading news in advance to latin class
15:34<kero>it's like medieval latin: easier to read as Livius or Sallustius
15:35<@Rubidium>kero: more because many newer words need to be constructed
15:35<kero>also
15:35<@Rubidium>http://la.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interrete <- how long does it take before you know what that means?
15:35<kero>nice :)
15:37<kero>some traductions are ... problematics
15:37<Supercheese>"Quod non est in interreti non est in mundo."
15:37<kero>Civitates foederatae americae
15:37<Supercheese>Heh
15:37<kero>I would more say Res publicae foederatae
15:38<Supercheese>"Id inveni in interreti, profecto verum est!"
15:42<andythenorth>Eddi|zuHause: so add another definition to industry prop 1A, presumably on bit 18? http://newgrf-specs.tt-wiki.net/wiki/Action0/Industries#Special_industry_flags_to_define_special_behavior_.281A.29
15:44<Eddi|zuHause>sounds reasonable
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15:50<Eddi|zuHause>andythenorth: the flag would make sure that "legacy" industry sets won't change behaviour, and new grfs can make a conscious decision
15:50<frosch123>there is already a production callback which is called immediately btw :)
15:50<andythenorth>I'm looking for the code now
15:50<andythenorth>slowly :P
15:51<andythenorth>one day I'll cave and get an IDE
15:51<Eddi|zuHause>frosch123: i really wouldn't know
15:51<Eddi|zuHause>frosch123: maybe that is the solution for andy's problem?
15:51<frosch123>https://secure.openttd.org/wiki/Frosch/New_Results#CB_37:_Industry_window_acceptance.2Fcargo_text <- you can also implement that :p
15:52<frosch123>both won't help ais
15:53<Eddi|zuHause>CB18 for industries?
15:53<andythenorth>frosch123: your spec on cb37 looks good
15:53<andythenorth>dunno if I can implement it :P
15:53<frosch123>Eddi|zuHause: isn't cb18 a curseword?
15:54<andythenorth>conditionally displaying text depending on a single bit - I can probably manage :P
15:54<Eddi|zuHause>possibly
15:54<Eddi|zuHause>it's working fine for stations, it's just for trains the specs are useless
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16:24<andythenorth>@seen kyosuke
16:24<@DorpsGek>andythenorth: I have not seen kyosuke.
16:24<andythenorth>@seen kyosuke1989
16:24<@DorpsGek>andythenorth: I have not seen kyosuke1989.
16:27-!-Tanguy [~tanguy@2a01:e34:ee8f:150:82ee:73ff:fe43:b876] has left #openttd []
16:29<Eddi|zuHause>@seen kyo*
16:29<@DorpsGek>Eddi|zuHause: I haven't seen anyone matching kyo*.
16:30<Eddi|zuHause>@seen *
16:30<@DorpsGek>Eddi|zuHause: * could be <last> (29 seconds ago), Eddi|zuHause (29 seconds ago), andythenorth (5 minutes and 37 seconds ago), frosch123 (36 minutes and 26 seconds ago), Supercheese (51 minutes and 55 seconds ago), kero (52 minutes and 45 seconds ago), Rubidium (54 minutes and 49 seconds ago), planetmaker (1 hour, 5 minutes, and 3 seconds ago), peter1138 (1 hour, 6 minutes, and 44 seconds ago), Alberth (3 (50 more messages)
16:31<Eddi|zuHause>if i use "@more", there could be some awesome higlight list :=)
16:31<andythenorth>:P
16:31-!-alluke [~oftc-webi@cs181208223.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Quit: Page closed]
16:33<@planetmaker>yeah right :D
16:33*Supercheese was already pinged
16:34<Eddi|zuHause>but this "<last>" thing is intriguing
16:34<Eddi|zuHause>@seen <last>
16:34<@DorpsGek>Eddi|zuHause: <last> was last seen in #openttd 5 seconds ago: <Eddi|zuHause> but this "<last>" thing is intriguing
16:34<Supercheese>haha
16:35<Eddi|zuHause>@whois <last>
16:35<Eddi|zuHause>that apparently doesn't exist
16:35<Eddi|zuHause>@whoami
16:36<@DorpsGek>Eddi|zuHause: I don't recognize you.
16:36<Eddi|zuHause>i wouldn't think so :)
16:37-!-valhallasw [~valhallas@5070A0D5.static.ziggozakelijk.nl] has joined #openttd
16:38<Supercheese>Well.
16:38<Supercheese>@whoareyou
16:38<Supercheese>awww
16:39<@DorpsGek>supercheese: i am dorpsgek, you should know that
16:39<Supercheese>Delayed response
16:39<@DorpsGek>do you think i am watching irc all day, just in case someone highlights me?
16:39<Supercheese>Trolling by proxy, eh?
16:41<Taede>its a hobby common among bot-owners
16:41<Supercheese>I would imagine
16:41<Eddi|zuHause>it's not a bot, it's a tiny chinese person living in a box in holland
16:42<@DorpsGek>i live in france
16:42<Eddi|zuHause>it's all greek to me :p
16:42<Supercheese>Hah, awesome argument: "I can't add a NewGRF to an already existing savegame so I [wrote a patch to do it instead]."
16:43<Eddi|zuHause>i couldn't get myself to respond...
16:43<Supercheese>"(and it's fun to do too)"
16:44*Supercheese should update his grf to use the new objects-at-mapgen feature
16:45<Supercheese>although perhaps I should add more objects first...
16:46<@planetmaker>hehe, I know that thought, Supercheese ;-)
16:46<frosch123>you need at least one
16:47-!-DanMacK [~d83bfad9@188.cimarosa.openttdcoop.org] has joined #openttd
16:47<@planetmaker>one what?
16:48<frosch123>one object
16:48<frosch123>without any object you will have a hard time to use the mapgen feature
16:48<@planetmaker>well... :-) you can't disable default objects
16:48<@planetmaker>so it kinda works already without newgrf objects
16:49<@planetmaker>though... that's not new ;-)
16:49<frosch123>oh, i am sure someone will complani that the lighthouse count is no longer randomised :p
16:50<frosch123>and asks for a switch to enable the old behaviour
16:51<@planetmaker>that's a bit hard to notice
16:51<@planetmaker>but yeah, feasible :-)
16:52<@planetmaker>could be solved by another property: count_random_range or so :-)
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16:53<frosch123>it's amazing what differences people notice
16:53<frosch123>andythenorth: you can ask for danmack now
16:53<andythenorth>him gone :|
16:54<andythenorth>nvm we had pm :)
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17:02<Supercheese>Man, are capitalization inconsistencies worthy of reporting? I keep finding them as I'm translating...
17:02<Supercheese>I've reported 2, IIRC
17:03<Eddi|zuHause>sure
17:03<frosch123>they are more interesting than ln's ship speed
17:03<Eddi|zuHause>if you don't, nobody does
17:03<Supercheese>I think the list will keep growing, I'll just submit one complete report when I've gone through everything
17:04<Eddi|zuHause>as long as you actually write them down when you see them :)
17:04<Supercheese>indeed
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17:13<Supercheese>I'm always amazed how Google translate can be at times so accurate and other times so hilariously wrong
17:14<Supercheese>when both things to be translated appear to be of equal difficulty
17:14<@Rubidium>probably because it already translated one of them and a human corrected it
17:15<Supercheese>True enough, I've been correcting things as I go along
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17:23<Supercheese>Someone seems to have mistranslated almost the entirety of Lorem Ipsum, though
17:23<Supercheese>Or rather, bothered translating it at all
17:25<@planetmaker>who would be that insane?
17:26<Supercheese>A good question, but various bits of it keep popping up when going English -> Latin, it's unmistakably lorem ipsum
17:26<@planetmaker>:-)
17:27<peter1138>But I must explain to you hjow all this mistaken idea of denouncing pleasure and praising pain was born...
17:28-!-HerzogDeXtEr [~flex@i59F6A9D7.versanet.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
17:29<peter1138>So... what?
17:30<andythenorth>nowt
17:30<Supercheese>Dolorem, non lorem
17:30<Eddi|zuHause>delorean?
17:31*andythenorth is remarkably retarded at maths
17:31<andythenorth>I just had to count 15 on my fingers to be sure that 15 is actually 15
17:31<Supercheese>hehe, "maths"
17:32<andythenorth>'counting'
17:32-!-Alice3 [~Alice@cpc18-grim14-2-0-cust478.12-3.cable.virginm.net] has quit []
17:32<Eddi|zuHause>it's actually fun to see what different kinds of people *think* that maths is :p
17:32<andythenorth>was worried I had an obiwan :P
17:32-!-sla_ro|master [~sla.ro@85.186.160.35] has quit []
17:33<Eddi|zuHause>typical conversation: "you studied maths, can you calculate this?" ... "no, i can't calculate this, because i studied maths"
17:33<andythenorth>but can you count? :P
17:34<@planetmaker>nah, the set is dense
17:34<frosch123>there are 3 types of mathematicans
17:34<frosch123>those who cannot count
17:34<frosch123>and those who cannot calculate
17:34<@planetmaker>it's more fun, if you write it as 10
17:34<andythenorth>poll: to count aloud to 15, how many numbers do you say?
17:34<andythenorth>(integers only)
17:34<frosch123>thats a cs joke then, not a math one :p
17:34<Eddi|zuHause>10 is for computer scientists :)
17:34<@planetmaker>:-)
17:35<@Rubidium>andythenorth: starting at 1 or 0?
17:35<frosch123>usually cs and math jokes are distinct
17:35<Eddi|zuHause>andythenorth: any number larger than 4 is something that mathematicians don't touch
17:35<andythenorth>Rubidium: and that is the problem :P
17:35<frosch123>though there are some jokes which work for both math and physics
17:35<Eddi|zuHause>there's computers for that stuff
17:35<andythenorth>if we conventionally started counting at 0, life would be easier
17:35<peter1138>We do.
17:36<peter1138>You just don't need to say it...
17:36<andythenorth>who's we?
17:36<frosch123>Eddi|zuHause: at least you use a computer, not a cellphone :p
17:36<Eddi|zuHause>physicist: 3 is prime, 5 is prime, 7 is prime, 9 is a measurement error, 11 is prime, 13 is prime -> all odd numbers are prime
17:36<peter1138>Is there a difference these days?
17:36<@Rubidium>andythenorth: I would've said 21 numbers (when starting at 0)
17:37<@Rubidium>andythenorth: in Dutch
17:37<__ln__>Eddi|zuHause: related: http://mathoverflow.net/questions/14069/lowest-multiple-of-n-that-is-also-a-power-of-2
17:38<@planetmaker>there's also several distinct ways to fence-in a lion ;-)
17:38<@Rubidium>andythenorth: http://paste.openttdcoop.org/show/2751/
17:38<frosch123>Eddi|zuHause: did you know, the double value of an even prime is always a square number
17:38<Eddi|zuHause>yes, i did know that
17:39<@Rubidium>frosch123: and the square root is always a prime, right?
17:39<Eddi|zuHause>planetmaker: you mean the one where lions live in the desert instead of the savannah?
17:39<frosch123>really? wow
17:39<@Rubidium>the square root of that double prime that is
17:40<@planetmaker>desert, savannah. whatever. But yeah
17:40<frosch123>well, my favorite one is still the discussion between a lawyer, a priest and a physicist about the advantages of having a wife or a girlfriend
17:40<@planetmaker>hehe
17:40<Eddi|zuHause>planetmaker: i mean, there's loads of things you can postulate when talking about the empty set :p
17:41<frosch123>is my assumption correct, that everyone knows it? :p
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17:41<@Rubidium>frosch123: nope
17:42<Supercheese>There are infinite, "Lawyer, priest, and ____" jokes
17:42<frosch123>ok, lawyer: i have seen so many divorces, always go for the girlfriend. you can safe a lot of trouble
17:42<frosch123>priest: go got the wife, it's the only honest way
17:43<frosch123>physicist: ideally have both, one wife and one girlfriend. then the wife thinks you are with the girlfriend, and the girlfriend thinks you are with the wife. and you can be at the lab all day without being bothered
17:43<Eddi|zuHause>a sociologist, a physicist and a mathematician go to a foreign country
17:44<Eddi|zuHause>the sociologist sees two black sheep and shouts out: in this country all sheep are black
17:44<Eddi|zuHause>the physicist says: no, you can't deduce that, you can only say "there are at least two black sheep in this country"
17:45<Eddi|zuHause>the mathematician says: no, you can't deduce that either, you can only say "there are at least two sheep that are black on at least one side"
17:57<MNIM>Eddi|zuHause: the philosopher will say: Well, how do you really know these sheep are really black?
17:57-!-TomyLobo [~foo@91-65-113-111-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Quit: Standby mode...]
17:57<MNIM>And the UN representative will say: These sheep must feel terribly discriminated.
17:58<Eddi|zuHause>in all likelyhood they would be female sheep
17:59<MNIM>The feminist will of course say they are being oppressed by the patriarchist farmer
18:03<frosch123>and the sheep will say: if this disguise works, the farmer won't recognise us, and we can escape
18:04<andythenorth>how silly
18:04<andythenorth>sheep say 'baa'
18:04<andythenorth>this joke is inaccurate
18:05<frosch123>oh, they say, "baa, trying to reach the kitchen through the chimney was a terrible idea"
18:05<MNIM>Pfeh. they should've learned from santa clause
18:06<frosch123>apparently santa is a racist or so
18:06<frosch123>or the dutch one at least
18:07<@Rubidium>yeah... someone pretending to be from the UN isn't really liked because of her comments
18:08<MNIM>frosch123: yeah, that's where the UN representative joke was stabbing at :P
18:08<Supercheese>Here we go again: http://translate.google.com/?hl=en#en/la/customised
18:09<@Rubidium>but if sinterklaas is considered racist, then santa claus is racist as well because of using dwarfs
18:09<MNIM>Supercheese: inaccurate much?
18:09<Supercheese>Indeed, I was just discussing this
18:09<frosch123>Rubidium: dwarfs? not pixies?
18:09<MNIM>Rubidium: not to mention an animal abuser!
18:10<MNIM>frosch123: ehhh, the jury
18:10<MNIM>'s still out on which
18:10<MNIM>damn enter keeyyyyy
18:11<MNIM>Supercheese: also, fun thing: when translating 'lorem' from latin to latin you get 'lorem ipsum'
18:11<Supercheese>And then this happens: http://translate.google.com/?hl=en#la/en/lorem
18:11<MNIM>yeah
18:12<MNIM>also, apparently 'amet gaudia' means 'residential joys'
18:12*MNIM distrusts google translate now.
18:13<@Rubidium>MNIM: why is the jury still out? The UN "representative" already formed an opinion and the research hasn't finished yet (heard even stories the research hasn't started yet); that person making the statement is part of that UN invesigation.
18:14<andythenorth>ach I should go to bed :P
18:14<@Rubidium>night andy
18:15<@Rubidium>hope you aren't blown away by the events of tomorrow ;)
18:17<MNIM>Rubidium: the jury isn't out yet about whether they are dwarves or pixies, sorry for the confusion
18:18<MNIM>but yeah, she spoke before her turn, that's for sure
18:19<andythenorth>bye
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18:20<Eddi|zuHause>wtf are you talking about?
18:24<MNIM>Eddi|zuHause: well, basically, this one UN person got stupid and blabbered that sinterklaas (basically the dutch (original!) version of santa clause) was racist
18:24<MNIM>cue a big outrage
18:24<Eddi|zuHause>when was that?
18:25<frosch123>Eddi|zuHause: http://www.spiegel.de/panorama/gesellschaft/niederlaender-demonstrieren-fuer-schwarze-nikolaushelfer-a-930246.html <- from today
18:26<MNIM>http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/netherlands/10393916/Dutch-Black-Pete-Christmas-custom-may-be-racist-warns-UN.html
18:26<MNIM>oh
18:26<MNIM>heh
18:26<Eddi|zuHause>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0kRAKXFrYQ4
18:26<__ln__>should it be african american pete?
18:26<MNIM>Pretty much
18:27<MNIM>moses /owned/ santa
18:27<frosch123>anyway, about every fairy story is violent and discriminating
18:27<Wolf01>'night all
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18:30<__ln__>is it racist that someone is black?
18:31<MNIM>Yeah well, basically black peter is supposedly a throwback to slavery. :d
18:32<Eddi|zuHause>do kids still play "who's afraid of the black man?" today? :p
18:33<frosch123>it's alternated with "who's afraid of the white woman"
18:33<Eddi|zuHause>http://www.spielewiki.org/wiki/Wer_hat_Angst_vorm_Schwarzen_Mann
18:33<Eddi|zuHause>apparently "white shark" :)
18:34<MNIM>hahaha
18:35<Eddi|zuHause>"Fänger: Wenn er aber kommt? Rest: Dann laufen wir davon!" <-- i don't remember ever hearing these two lines
18:36<frosch123>Eddi|zuHause: http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schwarzer_Peter <- there is no alternate name for that
18:36<__ln__>:D the finnish wikipedia claims that the black man is nowadays often replaced with iceman or "green man". or because talking about "man" is sexual discrimination, sometimes "who's afraid of the ice person / green person"
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18:39<MNIM>frosch123: actually...
18:39<MNIM>http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zwarte_Piet
18:39<MNIM>They leave it untranslated, apparently
18:40<frosch123>yeah, because the translation would be something different :p
18:41<Eddi|zuHause>but why would a person from turkey not have black people in his employ?
18:41<Eddi|zuHause>MNIM: the translation is in the first line
18:42<MNIM>In meant as main page name. :P
18:42<Eddi|zuHause>well, yes, then it would be the page frosch123 linked
18:43<frosch123>hmm, actually, the page says that it's the same in dutch
18:43<frosch123>the game and the guy
18:43<Eddi|zuHause>frosch123's page focuses on the game
18:43<Eddi|zuHause>where your page focuses on the santa clause thing
18:43<__ln__>santa is always white, and a man, btw.
18:44<MNIM>It's silly, really
18:44<frosch123>__ln__: nah, he has so much white beard that you cannot tell the face colour
18:44<Eddi|zuHause>well it _WAS_ weird when i saw a "Weihnachtsfrau" the first time
18:44<frosch123>and the hands are in gloves
18:44<MNIM>there's black dudes who paint themselves white to play sinterklaas, while white people paint themselves to play pete
18:45<Eddi|zuHause>but it could be like in lord of the rings: "there are dwarf women, but the humans can't distinguish them because they also have beards"
18:45<MNIM>Oh, by the way, the UN better not touch the pepernoten.
18:45<Eddi|zuHause>well there's always Spekulatius :)
18:45<frosch123>Eddi|zuHause: usually i see "weihnachtsfrau" costumes, when passing the beate uhse shop
18:46<Eddi|zuHause>frosch123: no, not that kind :)
18:46<MNIM>because if they touch the pepernoten it means WAR
18:46<MNIM>>:/
18:46<Eddi|zuHause>also: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zmQDt7jVdXQ
18:47<MNIM>>.<
18:48<Eddi|zuHause>i think i saw the first women dressed as santa in kindergarten when i was about 5 years old
18:48<frosch123>Eddi|zuHause: what have santa, the easer bunny and the stork in common?
18:49<MNIM>They do inappropriate things with your mom?
18:49<Eddi|zuHause>frosch123: what's the difference between the yeti and a good 3rd clarinetist?
18:49<frosch123>MNIM: yeah, about that
18:50<MNIM>Eddi|zuHause: the Yeti makes itself invisible?
18:50<Eddi|zuHause>the yeti was actually spotted :)
18:50<MNIM>Oh, close :P
18:52<Eddi|zuHause>what is the difference between a clarinet and a mouse?
18:53<Eddi|zuHause>you don't hear the mouse squeaking through the whole orchestra
18:55<frosch123>you were the tuba guy, right?
18:56<Eddi|zuHause>how'd you guess? :p
18:56<Eddi|zuHause>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Se5CBogDuYU <-- i never realized there was a dalek
19:05<frosch123>night
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---Logclosed Mon Oct 28 00:00:23 2013