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#openttd IRC Logs for 2013-10-28

---Logopened Mon Oct 28 00:00:23 2013
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02:12<LeandroL>hi all
02:12<LeandroL>first time here. anybody still up?
02:12<Supercheese>Aye
02:12<Supercheese>Only 11 PM here
02:15<LeandroL>it's 3 am over here
02:15<LeandroL>here = buenos aires, argentina
02:16<Supercheese>Huh, I wouldn't have expected the west coast of South America to be 4 hours ahead of the west coast of North America...
02:16<LeandroL>buenos aires is just one hour behind new york
02:16<Supercheese>Ah, east coast, right
02:16<LeandroL>or one hour ahead? i can't remember now
02:16*Supercheese just confused Chile with Argentina, d'oh
02:17<LeandroL>it's okay, most people do
02:17<LeandroL>we make the same mistake with many american states, if that makes you feel any better :)
02:17<LeandroL>especially the fly over ones
02:18<LeandroL>anyway, i have a very specific question: what's the maximum possible growth rate for a town in openttd 1.3.2? no mods, default rules
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02:30<Supercheese>Hmm, every day I think
02:30<Supercheese>A city with ≈ 5 active stations should grow each day, but don't quote me on that
02:31<Supercheese>Oh, depends on climate
02:32<Supercheese>I'm presuming temperate
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02:41<@planetmaker>moin
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02:45<LeandroL>Supercheese: I understand cities grow faster than towns
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02:47<LeandroL>I've started a new game on a map with two cities and I've added 4 bus stations and 1 train station transporting passengers and mail on each city (total: 5 stations per city)
02:47<LeandroL>It's year 1978 and one of the cities grows every 24 days and the other one every 16 days
02:48<LeandroL>population 3005 and 5239, respectively
02:48<LeandroL>how can I make my two towns grow faster?
02:48<@planetmaker>town_growth_rate = 4
02:48<@planetmaker>is the fastest ;-)
02:48<LeandroL>I've already laid roads around the whole map
02:48<LeandroL>it's a 64x64 map
02:49<@planetmaker>5 stations per city with good service
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02:49<LeandroL>planetmaker: can I get a city size 5000 to daily growth with 5 stations with high ranking?
02:50<@planetmaker>you can grow cities to a size of 1 million. But that takes long :-)
02:50<@planetmaker>and likely not on a 64^2 map
02:51<LeandroL>planetmaker: yeah, i can imagine. i just want my tiny 64x64 map to become fully covered with buildings
02:52<LeandroL>or as close to that as i can get
02:53<LeandroL>but back to the original question: is it possible to get to daily growth with a town size 5000 and 5 fully serviced stations?
02:53<@planetmaker>I don't know to what frequency of growth the growth speed setting translates to
02:54<@planetmaker>set the town growth speed in the adv. settings to 'very fast' will speed it up. Default might be 'medium'
02:55<LeandroL>yeah, i did
02:55<LeandroL>thanks for the tip
02:56<@planetmaker>don't expect towns to double size in 10 years
02:56<LeandroL>but still, i'm looking for a way to speed up growth under the default settings
02:57<@planetmaker>well, you have it :-) You have good service at 5 stations, you provided road layout already, and you have max. growth setting
02:57<LeandroL>doesn't have to be daily growth, but it definitely needs to be faster than every 16 days, which is as fast as i could get for now
02:57<@planetmaker>if it's arctic of tropical, you might need to provide some comodities, but the town would tell you
02:57<LeandroL>right
02:58<LeandroL>i'm playing in temperate climate
02:58<LeandroL>i'm still new to openttd
03:00<@planetmaker>:-) Town will grow roughly where the distance from the city centre to a free space is closest, when following road
03:02<LeandroL>nice
03:03<LeandroL>in a circular sort of way, as space allows
03:03<@planetmaker>well. it's random really. But liklyhood is larger that way
03:04<LeandroL>planetmaker: are you absolutely sure the 5 stations need to be well serviced in order to maximize city growth?
03:05<LeandroL>i've read somewhere that just having one passenger each month already makes a difference
03:06<LeandroL>but i've never seen anything written about increasing the number of passengers transported between stations or say, increasing the station ratings
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03:11<Supercheese>The stations need to be sufficiently close to the town center (town name)
03:11<Supercheese>If they are too far away they will not be counted
03:11<Supercheese>I dunno the exact distance, but the station nameplate needs to be close to the town nameplate
03:12<@planetmaker>they need to be serviced
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03:13<@planetmaker>i.e. a vehicle must have loaded or unloaded there in the last 20 days
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03:26<LeandroL>cool
03:27<LeandroL>so i could have a couple busses going around city, and it doesn't matter if they make a profit or not; as long as they're loading/unloading at least one passenger on every station that's enough to make the towns grow faster
03:33<Supercheese>yes, as long as the stations are close enough to the town center
03:33<LeandroL>cool
03:34<LeandroL>what else should I have in mind?
03:35<Supercheese>well, you can fund town growth I think
03:35<Supercheese>I never use it though, it seems expensive, short duration, and probably doesn't boost growth above once per day
03:36<Supercheese>anyway, good night
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05:38<Nekrodes>hi everybody :)
05:38<Nekrodes>where can I fill a bug repport for openttd?
05:40<__ln__>it can be decoded from the topic
05:41<Nekrodes>__ln__: thanks, I didn't read it ^^
05:41<Nekrodes>I'm searching for the same bug in the tasklist from the bugs web page
05:42<@planetmaker>Nekrodes, bugs.openttd.org
05:42<Nekrodes>thanks, planetmaker, found it ;)
05:42<@planetmaker>k :-) what's your issue?
05:43<Nekrodes>in fact when you don't have the right fonts, the menu crashes because it does a zero division
05:44<Nekrodes>It's a dumb issue, but I think it could be corrected easily (or I hope so)
05:45<@planetmaker>did you try a nightly version?
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05:45<Nekrodes>nope
05:46<Nekrodes>is it fixed there?
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05:46<@planetmaker>Honestly, I'm not sure :-)
05:46<Nekrodes>:)
05:47<Nekrodes>don't worry, planetmaker, I'm searching in the forums, the wiki and in the bug tracker and I think is a known bug ^_^
05:48<@planetmaker>well, in case of doubt better report it :-)
05:48<Nekrodes>ah, I'l trying to compile the source in a linux box :)
05:48<@planetmaker>you can simply download nightly builds
05:48<Nekrodes>the more, the better :)
05:48<@planetmaker>http://www.openttd.org/download-trunk
05:49<Nekrodes>thanks, planetmaker, I'll try them to see if it works
05:50<@planetmaker>"not right fonts" means you configured a custom one but that is unavailable?
05:52<Nekrodes>nope, I mean that after compiling the sources and launching the bin, if I use the menu, it crashes
05:52<@planetmaker>eh?
05:52<@planetmaker>yet, did you configure any font? Or you mean the default sprite font(s)?
05:53<Nekrodes>I mean, when I try to download the openGFX, etc with the default sprite font(s)
05:53<Nekrodes>I didn't configure any font in the cfg config file
05:54<Nekrodes>s/didn't/don't/
05:54<@planetmaker>k, so the downloading of the (required) base set fails
05:55<Nekrodes>yes, I think
05:56<@planetmaker>not sure whether that's actually solved so far. I heard something similar some time ago... linux?
05:57<Nekrodes>yep, linux
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05:59<Nekrodes>don't worry, I'll continue to search, but I wanted you to know :)
06:00<@planetmaker>well. Feel free to report *and* continue the search :-)
06:00<@planetmaker>If you find anything insightful you can always comment on an existing issue. Or even request closure, if you think it turned out invalid
06:00<Nekrodes>planetmaker: I do, thanks for your help ;)
06:00<@planetmaker>but if there's no issue, it's likely to be forgotten :-)
06:00<Nekrodes>:p
06:02<@planetmaker>http://bugs.openttd.org/task/5711?project=1&status[0]=open&order=tasktype&sort=asc maybe?
06:04<Nekrodes>yes, but in linux :)
06:05<@DorpsGek>Commit by frosch :: r25918 trunk/src/signs_gui.cpp (2013-10-28 10:05:00 UTC)
06:05<@DorpsGek>-Fix: Center the edit sign window like all query windows. (Juanjo)
06:05<Nekrodes>I think also that the crash is generated by a zero font size or when there's no font
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06:28<@DorpsGek>Commit by frosch :: r25919 trunk/src/autoreplace_gui.cpp (2013-10-28 10:28:24 UTC)
06:28<@DorpsGek>-Change [FS#5734]: Preselect the current replacement in the right-side list of the autoreplace GUI, instead of selecting the first resp. previous item.
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06:40<@DorpsGek>Commit by frosch :: r25920 trunk/src/story_gui.cpp (2013-10-28 10:40:52 UTC)
06:40<@DorpsGek>-Fix: Story page content was clipped incorrectly and was drawn past the bottom end.
06:42<@DorpsGek>Commit by frosch :: r25921 trunk/src/goal_gui.cpp (2013-10-28 10:41:57 UTC)
06:42<@DorpsGek>-Fix [FS#5763]: Goal and progress columns were out of sync for company specific goals, if there were no global goals.
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06:55<@DorpsGek>Commit by frosch :: r25922 /trunk/src (3 files) (2013-10-28 10:55:34 UTC)
06:55<@DorpsGek>-Codechange: Rename TOWN_IS_FUNDED to TOWN_IS_GROWING. It is not tied to funding a town.
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07:03<@DorpsGek>Commit by frosch :: r25923 trunk/src/script/api/script_town.hpp (2013-10-28 11:03:13 UTC)
07:03<@DorpsGek>-Fix: [NoGo] Documentation for GSTown::SetGrowthRate
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07:09<@DorpsGek>Commit by frosch :: r25924 /trunk/src/script/api (script_town.cpp script_town.hpp) (2013-10-28 11:09:02 UTC)
07:09<@DorpsGek>-Fix: [Script] Documentation for ScriptTown::GetGrowthRate.
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07:09<@planetmaker>\o/ commit spree
07:16<peter1138>This Marigold storyline is quite painful.
07:16<frosch123>@calc 0xFFFF * 70 / 74
07:16<@DorpsGek>frosch123: 61992.5675676
07:20<__ln__>we have storylines in openttd?
07:20<peter1138>What's openttd?
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08:03<LordAro>frosch123: regarding r25920, you probably want to fix textfile_gui.cpp as well, since i copied it from story_gui.cpp :L
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08:15<@DorpsGek>Commit by frosch :: r25925 trunk/src/textfile_gui.cpp (2013-10-28 12:15:44 UTC)
08:15<@DorpsGek>-Fix: Textfile content was clipped incorrectly and was drawn past the bottom end. (LordAro)
08:15<LordAro>:)
08:16<LordAro>the whole section should probably be refactored out
08:16<frosch123>if you copy&paste code, i'll copy&paste commit messages :p
08:20<@DorpsGek>Commit by frosch :: r25926 trunk/src/lang/english.txt (2013-10-28 12:19:55 UTC)
08:20<@DorpsGek>-Change: capacious -> high-capacity.
08:22<LordAro>hey, i didn't approve it for committing :p
08:23<frosch123>my ego was capacious enough for that decision :)
08:23<Xaroth|Work>spacious
08:23<frosch123>spacious suggests empty :p
08:23<Xaroth|Work>true that
08:24<LordAro>:p
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08:59<@DorpsGek>Commit by frosch :: r25927 trunk/src/rail_gui.cpp (2013-10-28 12:59:44 UTC)
08:59<@DorpsGek>-Fix [FS#5733]: Consider size of signal sprites for sizing the signal GUI. (based on patch by adf88)
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09:04<@DorpsGek>Commit by frosch :: r25928 trunk/src/rail_gui.cpp (2013-10-28 13:04:34 UTC)
09:04<@DorpsGek>-Fix [FS#5733]: Reserve enough space for two digits of signal density. (adf88)
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09:16<alluke>aaarrrghhh
09:17<alluke>why does ttrs show old road graphics in multiplayer
09:17<alluke>https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/1004368/fuuuuuu.png
09:20<alluke>cant deal with it
09:20<peter1138>Welcome to NewGRFs and multiplayer safety.
09:22<alluke>t. hanks but is there any way to change this?
09:23<@Belugas>gello
09:23<@Belugas>hem..
09:23<@Belugas>hello
09:23<Xaroth|Work>o/ Belugas
09:23<@Belugas>sir Xaroth :)
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09:32<@Rubidium>alluke: yes, start the game late enough that the old style isn't used at the beginning
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09:39<@DorpsGek>Commit by frosch :: r25929 trunk/src/rail_gui.cpp (2013-10-28 13:39:18 UTC)
09:39<@DorpsGek>-Fix [FS#5733]: Position signal sprites size-aware in the signal GUI, that is: Center sprites horizontally, and align the vertical reference point at some baseline which centers the tallest sprite.
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12:26<juzza1> <B>Postage estimate for priority deliveries:</B>
12:26<juzza1><BR>
12:26<juzza1><BR>
12:26<juzza1>whoops
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12:34<frosch123>someone is not using xhtml!
12:42<peter1138>Uppercase tags, too...
12:42<peter1138>I guess juzza1 has been waiting 15 years for that delivery, based on the HTML...
12:47<NGC3982>Living on the bottom floor with panorama windows is not preferable this evening.
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13:36<@Terkhen>hello
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14:15<zydeco>greetings, comrades
14:17<Eddi|zuHause>Cormorants?
14:19<zydeco>them too
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14:31<Wolf01>moin
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15:13<andythenorth>hmmm
15:13<andythenorth>Europe is so....tidy
15:13<andythenorth>http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=456535&nseq=36
15:13<andythenorth>Rhineland shots always look like a Faller catalogue or something
15:15<andythenorth>herp, I should have used the Faller site for FIRS http://www.faller.de/App/WebObjects/XSeMIPS.woa/cms/page/pid.14.17.89/agid.1127.1202/ecm.ag/Trade-business-industry.html
15:16<@planetmaker>andythenorth, well... that's one of the regions which people actually *do* put on post cards :-). Quite a lot
15:17<frosch123>br103 is everyones favorite anyway
15:18<frosch123>hmm, photographed only three weeks ago
15:18<frosch123>so they still roll
15:18*planetmaker likes the chameleon ;-)
15:19<frosch123>andy's python framework?
15:20<@planetmaker>One of V's engines ;-)
15:20<frosch123>does it change color according to purr tracks?
15:20<@planetmaker>I think it was that one. But I always get confused by names :-)
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17:23<Wolf01>'night
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19:26<Eddi|zuHause><frosch123> hmm, photographed only three weeks ago <-- yeah, i think there are like 3 operational ones left
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21:44<LeandroL>hello everybody
21:45<LeandroL>i've left a game running for the past day or so and no my surprise, I'm being charged with interest in the millions, but my loan has been fully paid off literally centuries ago
21:45<LeandroL>here's a screenshot:
21:45<LeandroL>https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/1156368/Screenshot%20from%202013-10-28%2022%3A37%3A49.png
21:45<LeandroL>is this a bug?
21:46<LeandroL>i'm running openttd version 1.3.2
21:47<Markk>LeandroL: That's because you're on minus.
21:47<LeandroL>what do you mean?
21:48<Markk>You see that your bank balance are on minus, ye?
21:48<LeandroL>yeah
21:48<LeandroL>having a negative bank balance produces negative interest?
21:48<Markk>That's why you're getting quite an interest.
21:48<Markk>Yes
21:48<LeandroL>i thought you only got interest from your loan
21:48<LeandroL>it obviously makes sense that you have to pay for running on a negative bank balance somehow
21:48<Markk>You're borrowing the money requeried to pay for your trains and infrastructure from the bank.
21:49<Markk>Like in real life.
21:49<LeandroL>yeah
21:49<LeandroL>implicitly
21:49<Markk>So no, it's not a bug.
21:49<LeandroL>thanks for the insight
21:49<Markk>You don't earn enough money.
21:49<Markk>:)
21:49<Markk>No problem.
21:49<LeandroL>at this point there's no way to go back to positive figures, right?
21:49<Japa>Not likely, no.
21:49<Japa>Since the max loan is less than your debt.
21:49<Markk>I'm surprised that you aren't bankrupt yet.
21:50<LeandroL>can you go bankrupt?
21:50<Japa>You could try to sell all your trains or something, maybe
21:50<LeandroL>when and how does that happen?
21:50<LeandroL>i only have two trains and like 10 bus stations with 1 bus each
21:50<Markk>haha
21:50<LeandroL>i was running an experiment on city growth
21:50<Markk>Yeah, there's no change.
21:50<Markk>chanse*
21:50<Markk>chance*
21:50<Markk>Even
21:51<LeandroL>5 stations per city and just a couple trains to boost my economy initially and make enough money to build a road grid to speed up city growth
21:51<LeandroL>i forgot about it and left the experiment running overnight
21:51<LeandroL>and i came home to a negative bank balance well into the billions
21:51<Japa>Cargodist is great for single-city games.
21:52<LeandroL>here's a whole map screenshot, in case anyone is interested
21:52<LeandroL>https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/1156368/Drindingstone%20Transport%2C%208th%20Oct%202628.png
21:53<LeandroL>it's a 64x64 map
21:58<Eddi|zuHause><Markk> I'm surprised that you aren't bankrupt yet. <-- you can only go bankrupt in multiplayer
21:59<LeandroL>Eddi|zuHause: that makes sense, thanks
22:00<LeandroL>ok, different question
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22:00<Eddi|zuHause>and in single player there's the money cheat
22:00<Markk>Eddi|zuHause: That's what I thought.
22:01<LeandroL>i've seen there's an autorenew feature that replaces old vehicles with new ones of the same model
22:01<LeandroL>but, is there an autoreplace feature?
22:01<Eddi|zuHause>yes
22:01<LeandroL>something that periodically replaces my vehicles with newer models
22:01<LeandroL>i'm tired of having to replace my old steam locomotives with newer diesel ones by hand
22:01<Eddi|zuHause>in the vehicle list. use the manage list dropdown
22:02<LeandroL>yeah but i mean, i don't want to do that every few hours
22:02<LeandroL>i want to let the game run for days without human intervention
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22:02<LeandroL>after a while the old vehicles become unavailable and so the autorenew feature stops working
22:04<LeandroL>am i explaining myself well?
22:13<Eddi|zuHause>ah. so you want to set a rule before the vehicles become available
22:13<Eddi|zuHause>i guess nobody ever felt the need to do that
22:14<Eddi|zuHause>so it's not implemented
22:14<Eddi|zuHause>wouldn't it be easier to just start in 2050 and use the latest vehicle only?
22:22<LeandroL>i found a configuration parameter that makes vehicles be available forever
22:22<LeandroL>it's not exactly what i wanted but it's probably good enough to keep the income stable over a few centuries without manual intervention
22:25<Eddi|zuHause>while at it, also turn inflation off :)
22:27<LeandroL>i'm tempted to, but i'd like to keep the settings as close to the default set as possible
22:28<LeandroL>you're probably right though, eventually the inflated prices will surpass the income generated from the transports
22:28<LeandroL>unless the income also increases with inflation?
22:33<Eddi|zuHause>it does, but at a slower rate
22:33<Eddi|zuHause>after 170 years, they're around factor 5 apart
22:34<Eddi|zuHause>there's no possible way you're going to be able to counter that effect without manual interference
22:35<Eddi|zuHause>like discontinuing short, unprofitable routes
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---Logclosed Tue Oct 29 00:00:24 2013