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#openttd IRC Logs for 2013-11-04

---Logopened Mon Nov 04 00:00:13 2013
00:19<Snowfyre>whew, infrastructure costs build up fast
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01:55<NGC3982>Good morning.
01:55-!-TomyLobo [~foo@91-65-113-111-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #openttd
01:56<NGC3982>I wish the Android app worked right now.
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02:30<AndChat|245616>joined
02:31<NGC3982>Yey.
02:32<Supercheese>?
02:33<NGC3982>G:-(
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02:53<V453000>G_G
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05:00<peter1138>Arr, mouse batteries dying already :(
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05:18<FLHerne>Try little chunks of apple. They like those :-)
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06:31<MNIM>that's why smart people use mice with tails
06:31<V453000>^^
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06:45<peter1138>When I look in real shops, they only have crappy laptop-companion mice these days :(
06:46<V453000>eshops sound real enough to me :P
06:46<peter1138>Can't try it out for feel then, though.
06:47<Xaroth|Work>laptop companion mice suck balls for working >1h with
06:47<MNIM>laptop companion mice suck hairy balls to work with, period
06:48<peter1138>G600 MMO mouse... 15 fecking buttons o_O
06:48<Xaroth|Work>if you quickly need to do something I prefer those over a trackpad
06:48<Japa_>Nothing beats a trackpoint, though.
06:48<V453000>I bought Steelseries Sensei RAW Rubberized, superb for the price ... with no extra fecking buttons :)
06:49<Xaroth|Work>mx518 <3
06:49<Xaroth|Work>even made my boss get me one for work
06:49<Japa_>Incidentally, what's the maturity rating of this channel?
06:50<Xaroth|Work>depends on the time of day, really
06:51<Japa_>Just wondering weather to use TrackPoint™-style pointer, or clit-mouse.
06:52<Xaroth|Work>...
06:53<peter1138>They're not much of an option for a desktop PC.
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06:53<Japa_>Not without a $50 keyboard, anyway.
06:53<peter1138>I'm not willing to waste money on a crappy keyboard just for it.
06:54<Japa_>And yeah, buying online can lead to surprises.
06:54<peter1138>I have a £70 keyboard, heh.
06:54<Japa_>I bought a razor gaming mouse online, and it turned out tiny.
06:54<Japa_>come to think of it, had a similar experience with my girlfriend.
06:55<peter1138>You bought a girlfriend online?
06:55<V453000>LOL
06:55<Xaroth|Work>your girlfriend said it turned out tiny?
06:55<V453000>well razer is cute but stupidly expensive for what they bring imo
06:56<Japa_>I didn't buy her, but I did get to know her online first before meeting her later in person. She barely reaches my shoulder.
06:56<peter1138>Better wait til she's older then.
06:56<V453000>._. this channel is weird
06:56<juzza1>haha
06:57<Xaroth|Work>peter1138: you were too fast :P
06:57<Japa_>Pecio, she's older than I am.
06:57<Japa_>by half a year
06:58<V453000>still doesnt mean you are over 15
06:58<Japa_>I'm 26, she's 27
06:58<Xaroth|Work>ffs, people keep typing faster than me :p
06:58<Japa_>And here's a picture of my mouse. http://i45.tinypic.com/muixhw.jpg
06:58<peter1138>That razer is ... tiny ...
06:59<peter1138>The MS mouse is quite nice while it still works.
06:59<peter1138>Eventually the buttons give up though.
06:59<peter1138>Been through a few of them...
06:59<LordAro>peter1138: you should get a rat instead ;) http://www.cyborggaming.com/prod/rat7.htm
07:00<Japa_>Yeah, when I first opened the box, my reaction was all "the fuck is this shit?"
07:00<peter1138>They seem to be adjustable from very small to a bit less small
07:00<Japa_>I've grown to love it, though.
07:02<MNIM>So
07:02<MNIM>am I the only one who's perfectly fine with the standard compaq mouse that came with my PC?
07:03<peter1138>http://i.ebayimg.com/t/M-S34-Compaq-Mouse-/00/s/MTIwMFgxNjAw/z/6ZQAAOxyTjNScl9q/$T2eC16VHJFwFFZ8RnuyZBScl9p7lK!~~60_35.JPG
07:03<peter1138>like that? :p
07:04<Japa_>MNIM, I buy new mice when old ones no longer function.
07:05<V453000>^
07:06<Eddi|zuHause>i had a microsoft mouse once, it broke after half a year, and the warranty replacement a year later. then i switched to logitech
07:06<Eddi|zuHause>... which i had to warranty-replace after 2.5 years again
07:06<peter1138>I find the non-slip pads come off eventually.
07:07<peter1138>And then the plastic wears, and then it wobbles.
07:07<Eddi|zuHause>yeah, the pseudo-leather thing around the mouse wheel
07:07<Eddi|zuHause>it dissolves into tiny particles which block everything on the inside
07:09-!-frosch123 [~frosch@frnk-590f5889.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd
07:16<MNIM>peter1138: pretty much, but slightly newer and blacker. (2008)
07:17<peter1138>Gosh, you must be a keyboard-warrior for a mouse to last that long :)
07:19<frosch123>both my keyboard and mouse are from around 2000
07:20<Tulitomaatti>i had my first mouse last me from around 2002 to 2010 or so
07:20<Tulitomaatti>'first' as in first optical
07:20<frosch123>the mouse once had some gumming, but it got lost over the years
07:20<Eddi|zuHause>now can one endure a mouse without wheel?
07:20<frosch123>it kind of has the shape of my hand now :p
07:21<frosch123>wasn't there a xkcd about people not using mouse wheels?
07:21<peter1138>Hmm, I've got a dual-optics mouse somewhere.
07:21<Eddi|zuHause>yeah, i think there was
07:22<Eddi|zuHause>in ~20 years of computer usage i had like 10 mice
07:22<Eddi|zuHause>some longer, others shorter
07:23<frosch123>yeah, that was the case before i got the first generation of optical mouses
07:24<peter1138>Cleaning yer balls
07:25<frosch123>actually, most likely the cause was that i also bought a ps/2 wire extension
07:25<frosch123>so that the wire had actually a sufficient length
07:27<frosch123>(mind that i tried wireless before, but it turned out crap)
07:27<Eddi|zuHause>early wireless was crap, but nowadays it's good
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07:28<Eddi|zuHause>just the rechargable batteries don't last very long
07:28<Eddi|zuHause>about 2-3 weeks
07:29<Eddi|zuHause>non-rechargables were advertised to last about a year, but they were empty after about 3 months. and i'm not buying batteries that often
07:30<frosch123>yeah, batteries were always empty when i needed the mouse the most
07:30<frosch123>today i avoid any battery powered devices
07:31<frosch123>sadly there are only battery powered cell phones
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07:31<Eddi|zuHause>empty batteries refresh your skills in keyboard-accessibility :p
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07:32<MNIM>peter1138: possibly
07:32<Eddi|zuHause>well, rechargables are fine, i just switch them with the ones in the DECT phone
07:32<MNIM>also, I have a wacom tablet which I use(d) for most mouse duties
07:32<Eddi|zuHause>just the warning that the batteries get empty is sometimes not working
07:33<MNIM>sadly that one has died on me this year.
07:33<peter1138>Dunno where the mouse for my Wacom has gone, but it doesn't have a wheel anyway :(
07:33<peter1138>Also, it's awkward using a mouse with a fixed surface.
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08:03<Thurak>what settings would be good to make for a harder difficulty
08:05<V453000>everything cheap, let everyone get tons of trains
08:05<V453000>nothing is hardest
08:05<V453000>harder* :)
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08:10<Thurak>well, lots of rivers will be harder
08:11<frosch123>Thurak: just in case: there is no point in trying to make ottd harder with money. all income in ottd grows exponential with how much you are building
08:11<frosch123>so, higher costs only make the early game slower and boring
08:11<frosch123>but they change nothing overall
08:11<V453000>^
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08:11<frosch123>you cannot make ottd "hard", you can only make it "interesting"
08:11<frosch123>by providing non-money challenges or non-money goals
08:11<Thurak>what makes it more interesting then
08:12<Thurak>oh, like fill in the ocean or something like that
08:12<frosch123>mountains, no terraforoming, short bridges and tunnels
08:12<V453000>e.g. have a large network with many trains transporting a lot of cargo while making it look nice
08:12<V453000>just an example
08:13<Thurak>just making a rail look nice is a challenge for me atm..
08:13<V453000>level 2, invent something interesting how to make the network
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08:13<V453000>well then consider if you running a server is a good option :P
08:13<V453000>perhaps learning something first is a good idea
08:14<Eddi|zuHause><frosch123> mountains, no terraforoming, short bridges and tunnels <-- and steep slopes
08:14<Thurak>normally i start with something like a few truck networks, once i get a resonable amount of money i make a few long distance rails
08:14<Eddi|zuHause>then early newgrf (ca. 1850)
08:15<Thurak>i started this one on 1800
08:15<V453000>steep slopes can be massively abused on downhills Eddi :P
08:15<Eddi|zuHause>V453000: we need to model braking power for that :)
08:15<Thurak>i have a newgrf that would allow me to start in 1700, but that would leave me using the same 4 horse truck for 120 years
08:16<Eddi|zuHause>low braking power => massively reduced speed limit downhill
08:16<V453000>that sounds rather dumb
08:16<V453000>you want your train to accelerate on the downhill :)
08:16<V453000>increasing steepness would then only hurt uphill for no gain on downhill
08:16<V453000>now it is nice balance
08:17<Thurak>i see nothing wrong with a steam engine going 300mph down a near vertical slope :)
08:17<Eddi|zuHause>for certain values of "nice" and "balance" :p
08:22<Thurak>can you turn off the warning messages for vehciles making a loss?
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08:22<Thurak>these horses move at 13kmh, takes just over a year to make a £330 trip, but they cost £37/year, making a large profit but some years they wont have quite made a delivery, so the game says im losing money from them
08:23<V453000>perhaps start the game in some intelligent date like 1920 for most newGRFs
08:24<juzza1>go to advanced settings - vehicles - warn if a vehicle's income is negative
08:24<Thurak>thx, and date wouldnt help much because when i have faster things i will have them go further :P
08:24<Thurak>i often have trips that last over a year, large map size
08:25<V453000>enjoy the large map size then
08:25<Thurak>i went for 1024x1024
08:25<V453000>honestly having things go 100-200 tiles is about maximum reasonable for start
08:26<V453000>512*512 is more than enough for anything :)
08:26<Thurak>what about vacuum rails
08:26<Thurak>that travel 4000kmh
08:26<V453000>when I play alone I generally stay in an area within 256x256
08:26<V453000>trains that travel so fast I can barely see them? why
08:26<V453000>I would rather use a smaller map I can actually fill, lags less, and is more fun
08:27<Thurak>ah, my notebook is fast enough i dont get lag on this size
08:27<MNIM>huh.
08:27<Thurak>at least i dont get, i might if i had lots more stuff on it
08:28<MNIM>my road vehicle income is just as large as my train income.
08:28<V453000>well making more things on smaller space is more interesting anyway
08:28<V453000>e.g. building a long straight line is just plain dull
08:28<Thurak>i like to have both
08:29<V453000>make 500 trains on 256x256, much more entertaining and interesting
08:29<V453000>or 1000, idk how much you feel like :)
08:30<Thurak>isnt that where you start turning the map into a circuitboard of rails?
08:31<V453000>isnt that the point?
08:31<Thurak>i think the most i have got to so far is 2 rails each way
08:32<V453000>doesnt mean you cant get further :)
08:33<Thurak>thats as far as the industry grew
08:33<Thurak>not sure if passengers would be better
08:34<V453000>well you need many industries for sure :P
08:34<Thurak>yes, that was my main one tho as it had been growing since i started
08:34<V453000>cant say I would consider 1 industry a "network" :)
08:34<Thurak>think ill try build up some citys
08:44<Thurak>why am i getting 'autorenew failed on vehicle xx (money limit)
08:44<Thurak>the renew cost is about £1000, i have £100,000
08:45<juzza1>by default you need 200k for the renew to work, you can change it in the settings
08:45<Thurak>ah right
08:46<Thurak>i guess thats to stop you accidently spending everything you have
08:46<V453000>autorenew is worthless if you have breakdowns off (which you honestly should)
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08:48<Thurak>i was replacing with faster vehicles
08:48<Thurak>but the message still calls it autorenew
08:49<V453000>oh :0
08:49<V453000>well disabling those messages is also a good idea :D
08:51<Thurak>seems to be replacing as i go over 100k
08:52<Thurak>when my money drops below 100k it rails upgrade
08:52<Thurak>fails*
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08:52<Thurak>well its almost done them now anyway
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09:12<Thurak>is there a limit to the size a city can grow
09:12<V453000>2-3 millions
09:14<Thurak>2^31 by any chance?
09:15<V453000>not ^ anything
09:15<V453000>simply the point where houses start dying the same speed as growing
09:16<Thurak>ah right
09:16<Thurak>i was thinking it was 2147483647 as thats the limit of 32bit numbers
09:17<V453000>..
09:24<NGC3982>Can someone hilight me, please.
09:24<V453000>no markers around
09:25<NGC3982>\o/
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09:36<scshunt>NGC3982: HI
09:36<NGC3982>Thanks
09:40<Xaroth|Work>NGC3982: you know that's asking for trouble right?
09:40<peter1138>When I need to know the limits of this game, I don't look at the source code, I ask V453000...
09:40<NGC3982>Xaroth|Work: ;-)
09:40<V453000>:d
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10:09<@Rubidium>@calc 2046*2046*2/3*255
10:09<@DorpsGek>Rubidium: 711639720
10:09<V453000>congratulations you got a high number :D
10:09<V453000>:P
10:10<@Rubidium>^ that is the maximum a town can grow, although maybe you can get it slightly further if you can bring the road density down even more
10:10<V453000>did you try? :)
10:10<@Rubidium>no, it's more a theoretical maximum
10:10<V453000>above 2-3m, houses are just replaced, population stops increasing :)
10:10<V453000>is theoretical any useful? :P
10:11<adf88>theoretically there can be no roads
10:11<adf88>at all
10:11<V453000>:D
10:11<adf88>:p
10:11<@Rubidium>adf88: true, but then they don't grow and die pretty quickly
10:11<@Rubidium>@calc 2046*2046*255
10:11<@DorpsGek>Rubidium: 1067459580
10:11<V453000>nuff sed :D me goes home
10:12<@Rubidium>@calc 2047*2047*255
10:12<@DorpsGek>Rubidium: 1068503295
10:12<@Rubidium>^ that's the number in that case ;)
10:13<@Rubidium>V453000: I agree, lets go home ;)
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10:13<frosch123>V453000: your observation restricts the number of houses
10:13<frosch123>you still need a house sets which sets population to max for each house
10:17<Snowfyre>is there any way to remove a city?
10:19<adf88>only in scenario editor
10:23-!-kais58|A1K is now known as kais58__5
10:24<George>Hi. I'd like to ask about FS#5588
10:25<George>It's time after time I return back to this fnctionality
10:25<George>And miss it again and again
10:25<George>Is it that hard to do?
10:25<George>Could someone please do it?
10:26<George>All I need is a possibility to disallow refit
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10:47<Eddi|zuHause><Rubidium> @calc 2046*2046*2/3*255 <-- if you have parallel roads every 4th tile, you have 3/4-epsilon. just have to remove stump roads all the time
10:48<Eddi|zuHause>(epsilon is for the connection between the roads, preferably through the town center)
10:52<Eddi|zuHause>if you don't want to remove the stump roads, you can have 3x4 grids, so 12 houses out of 20 tiles, meaning 3/5 (assuming "better roads")
10:52<Eddi|zuHause>on 4x4 you don't get houses on the middle tiles
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10:56<nickshanks>I am trying to compile on Mac OS X 10.9 and getting linker errors for functions under std::string:: Has anyone been able to compile on Mavericks yet?
10:56<Eddi|zuHause>try an older SDK
10:56<Eddi|zuHause>the newest SDK misses some 8-bit colour functions
10:57<nickshanks>I #if'd those out but can't seem to get past the linker
10:58<Eddi|zuHause>then i don't know
10:58<nickshanks>how would I change the SDK anyway?
10:59<nickshanks>Xcode 5 comes with 10.9 and 10.8 SDKs, nothing older. both of those use libstdc++.6.0.9.dylib
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11:59<@planetmaker>iirc you can get the older sdk from the apple site, nickshanks
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12:02<__ln__>but since a lot of people have successfully compiled OpenTTD on 10.8, i don't see why using 10.8 SDK wouldn't work.
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12:33<Wolf01>o/
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12:43<Eddi|zuHause>speaking of which, anyone considered a "--without-8bpp" configure switch?
13:00<@DorpsGek>Commit by planetmaker :: r25938 trunk/src/object_cmd.cpp (2013-11-04 17:59:58 UTC)
13:00<@DorpsGek>-Fix [FS#5798] (r25876): Don't mistake a lighthouse for a transmitter and vice versa
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13:45<@DorpsGek>Commit by translators :: r25939 /trunk/src/lang (japanese.txt latvian.txt) (2013-11-04 18:45:15 UTC)
13:45<@DorpsGek>-Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
13:45<@DorpsGek>japanese - 1 changes by guppy
13:45<@DorpsGek>latvian - 15 changes by Parastais
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13:52<nickshanks>planetmaker: i've just looked and don't see anything on developer.apple.com/downloads/ nor in the downloads tab of the Xcode prefs. I cannot connect to connect.apple.com at the moment (ironically)
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13:58<@planetmaker>you might need to login to apple and you can get XCode and SDKs to at least 10.4 backwards
13:59<@planetmaker>https://developer.apple.com/downloads/index.action
14:00<@planetmaker>sometimes they're bundled with an old version of XCode
14:01<nickshanks>agh, well i have various macs with older Xcode's on them, can I just copy over the SDK bundles? I presumed i had to get ones that were specific to Xcode 5
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14:01<@planetmaker>obviously it's not possible to provide links to SDKs directly
14:02<@planetmaker>SDK and XCode are different stuff really. For OpenTTD you don't need XCode at all
14:02-!-Alberth [~hat@a82-95-164-127.adsl.xs4all.nl] has joined #openttd
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14:02<nickshanks>are you a/theresident mac developer?
14:02<@Alberth>me? no
14:02<@planetmaker>I'd not call myself that
14:02<@planetmaker>hi Alberth
14:03<@Alberth>hi planetmaker
14:03<nickshanks>who would be the name to look out for in this channel?
14:03<@planetmaker>But I'm the only OpenTTD developer who acknowledges to possess apple hardware, a (meanwhile very old) macbook
14:03<@Alberth>nobody, there isn't a resident mac developer
14:03<@planetmaker>^
14:03<__ln__>please, *Xcode
14:03<@planetmaker>__ln__, no
14:03<@Alberth>we are still looking for one
14:04<nickshanks>okay, well once i am up and running I don't mind being that person.
14:04<@planetmaker>I said that once, too ;-)
14:04<nickshanks>i am a the resident mac developer on FreeCol
14:04<@Alberth>plenty of open issues to fix :p
14:04<@planetmaker>It started to annoy me that apple breaks things on an annual basis
14:04<LordAro>didn't michicc fix most of them?
14:05<@planetmaker>he fixed some. But without access to apple hardware
14:05<@planetmaker>at least afaik
14:05<__ln__>nickshanks: 19:02 < __ln__> but since a lot of people have successfully compiled OpenTTD on 10.8, i don't see why using 10.8 SDK wouldn't work.
14:05<nickshanks>i just got myself a retina MBP with 16 GB of ram and an SSD (my first machine with one)
14:06<nickshanks>__ln__: thanks for repeating: i had just left the office at that time, so didn't catch the message
14:06<nickshanks>how does one switch SDKs with ./configure + make
14:06<__ln__>you specify the SDK to use in the CFLAGS
14:07<nickshanks>agh, i was messing about with LDFLAGS trying to fix the linker :)
14:07<nickshanks>why when i type ahh does OS X keep changing it? hmm, another mystery of Apple
14:08<nickshanks>spelling learnt
14:09<LordAro>planetmaker: which makes it all the more impressive :)
14:11<@planetmaker>nickshanks, you might need to provide also a different isystem=...
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14:12<nickshanks>3 questions with that, what is -i, what is system, and what valid values are there?
14:17<nickshanks>i googled for ./configure cflags macosx sdk and am now compiling with -mmacosx-version-min and -isysroot
14:17<@planetmaker>right... I need to start recalling the details
14:17<@planetmaker>isysroot yes
14:18<nickshanks>does CXXFLAGS have to match CFLAGS?
14:18<nickshanks>same linker failuer
14:18<@planetmaker>well, not 100%. But the differences are defined in config.lib
14:18<@planetmaker>the rest better be the same usually
14:19<nickshanks>i will try copying an older sdk
14:20<@planetmaker>they go in /Developer/SDKs
14:20<@planetmaker>but you likely know that :-)
14:20<nickshanks>not any more :)
14:20<nickshanks>they co in /Applications/Xcode.app/
14:21<nickshanks>I've been a Mac programmer for 19 years. you'd think i'd be good at this :D
14:21<__ln__>correctomundo, they don't use /Developer anymore at all
14:21<@planetmaker>see, then you know all that stuff much better than me
14:21<__ln__>nickshanks: what have you been doing if you've never needed to specify the SDK to use in 19 years?
14:22<nickshanks>never need to specify it with makefiles
14:22<nickshanks>either used ProjectBuilder/Xcode or SDKs did exist
14:22<@planetmaker>well. You usually don't here either. As the makefile will find the appropriate one
14:22<nickshanks>e.g. CodeWarrior
14:23<@planetmaker>But if you want the non-default, thus an older one... :-)
14:23<andythenorth>what are we doing? Compiling on Mavericks? o_O
14:23<nickshanks>yes
14:23<andythenorth>mm
14:23<nickshanks>with Xcode 5.0.1
14:23<andythenorth>it can be done
14:23<LordAro>nickshanks: in case you haven't noticed, configure/makefile is hand-written - nothing is likely to be entirely 'normal' ;)
14:23<andythenorth>kerno(?) worked it out
14:23<andythenorth>link to the 10.8 SDK
14:24<andythenorth>and turn of lzma and something else
14:24<andythenorth>and set some flags
14:24<andythenorth>it's all in the logs from last week or so
14:24<@planetmaker>while that's a workaround, that's not a good solution in the mid-term
14:24<@planetmaker>why turn-off lzma? That's a totally different 3rd-party lib?
14:24<nickshanks>andythenorth: where can i read those logs?
14:24<@planetmaker>@logs
14:24<@DorpsGek>planetmaker: http://irclogs.qmsk.net/channels/openttd
14:24<nickshanks>ausomeomatic
14:25*andythenorth searches
14:25<nickshanks>crap, can't type yet on this new kbd
14:25<@planetmaker>did they also re-arrange keys? :D
14:25<nickshanks>yes, they are further apart
14:25<andythenorth>here we go http://irclogs.qmsk.net/channels/openttd/date/2013-10-26?page=2
14:25<andythenorth>we should wiki that :P
14:26<andythenorth>zydeco worked it out iirc
14:26<andythenorth>I tested it on my wife's mac
14:27<nickshanks>i disabled lama, and #if'd out the 8 bit stuff, but am stuck at the linker issue
14:28<andythenorth>iirc, I edited nothing
14:28<@Rubidium>just install ubuntu. It already got 10.10
14:28<andythenorth>just set flags on configure and make
14:28<andythenorth>can't check now
14:28<andythenorth>but it's all in those logs :)
14:28<nickshanks>zydeco used LDFLAGS="-stdlib=libstdc++"
14:29<nickshanks>that'll be the fix i need
14:29<andythenorth>planetmaker: the lzma is unrelated to 10.9, but I couldn't get a valid version on a clean-installed mavericks
14:29<andythenorth>I tried brew. I refuse macports. It was easier to ignore it
14:32<@planetmaker>andythenorth, I refuse brew. I read their instructions and they are as safe as rm -rf /*
14:32<andythenorth>it's written in ruby, what could go wrong? :P
14:32<andythenorth>famously high standards
14:32<andythenorth>planetmaker: that leaves us with no decent package manager on OS X :(
14:32<andythenorth>macports is a world of shame
14:33<@planetmaker>why?
14:35<nickshanks>compiled, linked, running
14:35<nickshanks>yay :)
14:35<andythenorth>winner
14:35<nickshanks>where might i find the development graphics sets?
14:36<nickshanks>I will update the wiki (if "the public" have such permission)
14:36<andythenorth>nickshanks: thanks :)
14:36<andythenorth>appreciated
14:36<nickshanks>anyway, much go sort out screaming baby
14:36<andythenorth>hah
14:36<nickshanks>thanks all
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14:36<andythenorth>must have the same life as me
14:37<andythenorth>so did I miss anything?
14:37<V453000>everything
14:41<andythenorth>frosch123: I was thinking about the simple suggestion for tech levels (just use a fake date)
14:42<andythenorth>I like the simplicity, but I wonder if it makes it hard to do 'level up'
14:42<andythenorth>the GS might advance from 1951 tech to 1953 tech
14:42<andythenorth>with no result
14:43-!-DJGummikuh [~johannes@ip-88-152-168-146.unitymediagroup.de] has joined #openttd
14:43<DJGummikuh>Hello!
14:43<DJGummikuh>Is there ANY way (hacks will do) to connect the openttd ingame chat to an irc channel?
14:44<@planetmaker>obviously yes. At least two
14:44<DJGummikuh>huh? I did some googling and turned up nothing
14:44<@planetmaker>the old deprecated way is to use a wrapper like ap+
14:44<@Alberth>oh dear, google is missing some information!
14:44<DJGummikuh>and the new, shiny way?
14:44<@planetmaker>and the new and supported way is to interface the admin port with a bot which can transfer the chat between game and IRC
14:44<DJGummikuh>Alberth: haha, jus wanted to state that I did not try google first :)
14:45<DJGummikuh>err that I DID try google first
14:45<DJGummikuh>planetmaker: is there documentation on that?
14:45<@planetmaker>I http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/soap or https://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/grapes
14:45<@planetmaker>are two implementations
14:45<__ln__>and the third way is to hire someone in india to manually type messages back and forth
14:46<DJGummikuh>__ln__: are you offering yourself? ;)
14:46<@Alberth>or hire someone to do it for you
14:46<NGC3982>Poop.
14:46<__ln__>DJGummikuh: sorry, never been to india
14:46<@planetmaker>__ln__, distinctly doesn't look Indian
14:46<DJGummikuh>well fiji will do :)
14:47<DJGummikuh>oh how brilliant... grapes is java <3
14:48<DJGummikuh>We're planning on building up a community with several games with their chats all linked to each other cross-game
14:48<DJGummikuh>being a java programmer, grapes suits my needs perfectly
14:48<DJGummikuh>thanks for the help
14:49<@planetmaker>DJGummikuh, if you want to develop based on grapes, I'm sure the author will happily accept patches or collaborate
14:50*Xaroth|Work shudders
14:50<DJGummikuh>Xaroth|Work: huh?
14:50<@planetmaker>:-)
14:50<@planetmaker>he's the author of the python lib which soap is based on
14:51<Xaroth|Work>aye
14:51<Xaroth|Work>all the pull requests Taede makes
14:51<Xaroth|Work>pfff :P
14:51<@planetmaker>:) He's quite industrious
14:51<Xaroth|Work>speaking of which, is soap in use already?
14:51<Xaroth|Work>or in test still?
14:52<@planetmaker>it's not yet in production use. Though I actual plan to do that rather sooner than later
14:52<@planetmaker>we're kinda beta-testing it now
14:53<Xaroth|Work>nice
14:53<DJGummikuh>"production"?
14:54<DJGummikuh>ah by the way one thing that always bothered me since I first played transport tycoon - why are the planes so friggin slow and only sped up by option?
14:54<@planetmaker>well. Use on the #openttdcoop servers
14:54<Xaroth|Work>because planes are otherwise overpowered as boot
14:54<DJGummikuh>huh? how so? Expensive as hell and limited cargo hold
14:54<@planetmaker>planes are no-brain money. Even more than anything else. No need to make them no-brain mega-money
14:54<DJGummikuh>having a 20 car train running all across the map is way way more profitable than 40 planes
14:55<andythenorth>planes print money
14:55<andythenorth>ok so no-one bit on tech levels :(
14:55<@Alberth>DJGummikuh: try a smaller map
14:55<andythenorth>I also had an actual GS idea
14:55<Xaroth|Work>DJGummikuh: try having airports on either sides of the map
14:55<DJGummikuh>I usually do
14:56<DJGummikuh>and my planes always break down before making a single trip xD
14:56<Xaroth|Work>the bigger the map, the more vastly more money they accumulate
14:56<DJGummikuh>mmh
14:57<@planetmaker>there's simply absolute no challange in setting up an air route
14:57<DJGummikuh>mmh ok
14:58<DJGummikuh>still I like planes :)
14:58<@planetmaker>anyway, you got the option to set speeds for all vehicles identically. So... no problem. Just use the setting
14:58<@planetmaker>for people like you we have it
14:58<DJGummikuh>yeah but up until now I did not understand why this isn't default. now I doo
14:59<DJGummikuh>I must admit I'm really a fan of this channel...
14:59<DJGummikuh>You ask a question and get a helpful awnser
14:59<@planetmaker>must have found the happy hour here ;-)
14:59<DJGummikuh>not this" omg you n00b moron idiot you should do this and that instead of what you are intending because you are an idiot and I'm soo leet"
15:00<andythenorth>that happens
15:00<andythenorth>but mostly not
15:00<DJGummikuh>happens especially often in Minecraft channels )
15:00<DJGummikuh>:)
15:00<Xaroth|Work>that's because the average age in here is 20-ood years above that of the average MC channel...
15:00<V453000>just dont say realism and you are rather safe
15:01<Xaroth|Work>and I'm not claiming our average age is high
15:01<@planetmaker>hehe, Xaroth :-) yeah
15:01<DJGummikuh>V453000: :) btw what do you think about that "Transport Tycoon" you can buy for android?
15:01<V453000>im done
15:01<@planetmaker>though for a game channel it actually might
15:02<@planetmaker>And I don't think about that TT. I don't own a device which could run it
15:02-!-nickshanks [~nickshank@46.65.41.135] has joined #openttd
15:02<DJGummikuh>well my phone can run openttd for sure
15:02<Tulitomaatti>yes
15:02<Tulitomaatti>oh
15:02<Tulitomaatti>nevermind
15:02<DJGummikuh>I just don't see any TTD in the transport tycoon you can buy there
15:02<DJGummikuh>Tulitomaatti: :D
15:02<V453000>then play openttd because it is probably endlessly better than that thing you just mentioned
15:03<Tulitomaatti>damn mental hilights.
15:03<DJGummikuh>V453000: what I love most is that you can play on PC servers :) I mean which commercial game offers that?
15:03<V453000>no idea
15:03<DJGummikuh>none I could think of
15:03<V453000>which commercial game runs on mac? :D
15:04<DJGummikuh>well mac and android are two different things [citation needed]
15:04<Tulitomaatti>sc2, most blizzard games (up to snow lion)
15:04<Tulitomaatti>eve, i guess wow does as well. many source engine games.
15:04<nickshanks>all Bungie games up until Halo :)
15:05<@planetmaker>wasteland2 ;-)
15:05<DJGummikuh>yeah but as said, android is a completely different thing. because you usually don't have keboard and mouse there, which gives you either an advantage or an disatvantage
15:05<Tulitomaatti>http://store.steampowered.com/browse/mac/
15:05<Tulitomaatti>anything there is supposed to work.
15:05<Tulitomaatti>though i'm still kinda mad at apple for removing rosetta stone support
15:05<V453000>supposed to is good wording
15:05<Tulitomaatti>that makes running old blizzard games a PITA
15:06<nickshanks>mac games: feralinteractive.com macplay.com aspyr.com are all my old friends and/or ex-employers
15:06<Tulitomaatti>V453000: all the ones i've tried work.
15:06<Tulitomaatti>though i do have a couple of cursewords reserved for the os x port/version keeping up/matching with the pc version (multiplayer issues)
15:06<V453000>then you have a slight more objective advantage over my research over my 0, but that still does not stop me from random whining \o/
15:07<Tulitomaatti>i shall go acquire foodstuffs
15:07<nickshanks>sorry i had to dash earlier, but can someone give me a link to where i can get the graphics for SVN builds?
15:07<Tulitomaatti>my parmesan and some of it's friends had turned in to science projects in the fridge
15:08<andythenorth>nickshanks: baby drama resolved?
15:08<@planetmaker>nickshanks, http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/opengfx/
15:08<nickshanks>Weird Al - Livin' in the fridge
15:08<@planetmaker>last push or last nightly
15:09<@planetmaker>http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/opengfx/nightlies/v5051/opengfx-5055.zip
15:09<@planetmaker>^ to be precise
15:09<@planetmaker>which reminds me.... meh
15:09<nickshanks>why to 5056.zip ?
15:10<nickshanks>*why not
15:10<@planetmaker>oh. missed it. yes
15:10<@planetmaker>that's one day newer
15:10*nickshanks wonders what happened 5,056 days ago
15:10<@planetmaker>do the maths :-)
15:11<@planetmaker>but you should do the math back from the commit date. Though I think it is today. Or yesterday
15:11<@planetmaker>hm...
15:13<@planetmaker>nothing notworthy actually happend then. But not few wer surprised by that
15:13<@planetmaker>*were
15:14<nickshanks>I am copying thr 10.4, 10.5 and 10.6 sdks from an Xcode 3 folder
15:14<nickshanks>will go look for 10.7 in an xcode 4 install later
15:16<@planetmaker>btw: FOLDER="v`getdays2000`"
15:16<@planetmaker>;-)
15:17<V453000>there is no folder called v.
15:17<@planetmaker>http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/opengfx/nightlies/v5051/ <-- I think there is :D
15:17<V453000>impersonation! :(
15:17<nickshanks>my first job will be to add retina support (aka detection)
15:18<nickshanks>anyway, time to put the kids to bed. thanks for the help.
15:18-!-nickshanks [~nickshank@46.65.41.135] has quit [Quit: nickshanks]
15:18<V453000>put them to their rest!
15:20-!-pear [pear@b.clients.kiwiirc.com] has joined #openttd
15:23<@Alberth>Luckily it will take a lot of days before we have several V453000
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15:23<V453000>(:
15:24<Taede>ello
15:24<V453000>you better be happy about that
15:24<@Alberth>:D
15:25<@planetmaker>hehe
15:25<@planetmaker>hi Taede
15:27<Taede>Xaroth: its not in use yet (that i know of), but its not far off
15:30<@planetmaker>Xaroth, basically we've prepared the server. We just need to switch the DNS to point to the new VM
15:32<Taede>theres a few commands missing (mainly wrt to password-keys and the endgame transfer) for the ps, other than that i think i got most
15:32<@planetmaker>Taede, the !transfer command is basically just a shell script being called
15:32<Taede>yup
15:33<@planetmaker>Is there support to add a generic command e.g. by having an identically-named shell script in a scripts folder or so?
15:34<Taede>not really
15:38<Taede>i may look into that, i just have to work out how those scripts would intereact with active connections
15:38<@planetmaker>well, not that important. Only nice-to-have :-)
15:39<@planetmaker>don't look into it before we actually start using it. It's v1.5 or 2.0 :)
15:39<Taede>hehe
15:39<Taede>v2 will be more modular
15:39<@planetmaker>as usual :P
15:39<Taede>but it will be a long time before i get that done
15:39<Taede>v1 is fairly monolithic, but it works well
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15:41<@planetmaker>that's more important than modular :-)
15:41<@planetmaker>modular but not working wouldn't help us get along :-)
15:42<Taede>nop, i just have a lot more to learn to make that work well
15:42<@planetmaker>:-)
15:43<Taede>on a related note: content update currently executes and then immediately sends rcon-end packet
15:43<Taede>can this rcon end packet be delayed untill the content connection is established?
15:44<Taede>or wiht the connection-established being an event within openttd, will this prove difficult?
15:44<@Rubidium>not really. All DNS resolution is done in a separate thread as it can take a while before that's done
15:45<Taede>fair enough, not really important anyway
15:45<@Rubidium>there is some internal callback somewhere though
15:46<Taede>threads are always fun
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16:04<+michi_cc>Can anybody check if current trunk together with http://www.icosahedron.de/openttd/patches/osx_109_sdk.patch still needs any other work around for compiling on OS X 10.9 with the 10.9 SDK (e.g. libstdc++)?
16:05<andythenorth>not now, but tomorrow if you remind me :)
16:05<andythenorth>unless someone else gets there first :P
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16:44<@DorpsGek>Commit by frosch :: r25940 /extra/website (4 files in 3 dirs) (2013-11-04 21:44:04 UTC)
16:44<@DorpsGek>[website] -Change: Dissolve the 'links' page into 'development', 'contact' and a new 'community' page.
16:45<peter1138>Is ruby just really slow, or is it gitlab?
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16:52<@DorpsGek>Commit by rubidium :: r25941 /extra/website (12 files in 7 dirs) (2013-11-04 21:52:33 UTC)
16:52<@DorpsGek>[Website] -Update: bananas versions, blacklist
16:52<@DorpsGek>[Website] -Fix: https everywhere, erroneously cached pages
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17:18<Eddi|zuHause>"erroneously cached pages" <-- is that the "login page is in japanese" thing?
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17:24<frosch123>i guess it were some attempts about that
17:24<frosch123>anyway, all of that stuff was done months ago
17:24<frosch123>only now committed :p
17:32<Eddi|zuHause>yeah, i guessed as much
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17:54<Wolf01>'night
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---Logclosed Tue Nov 05 00:00:15 2013