| --- | Log | opened Mon Nov 04 00:00:13 2013 |
| 00:19 | <Snowfyre> | whew, infrastructure costs build up fast |
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| 01:55 | <NGC3982> | Good morning. |
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| 01:56 | <NGC3982> | I wish the Android app worked right now. |
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| 02:31 | <NGC3982> | Yey. |
| 02:32 | <Supercheese> | ? |
| 02:33 | <NGC3982> | G:-( |
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| 02:53 | <V453000> | G_G |
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| 05:00 | <peter1138> | Arr, mouse batteries dying already :( |
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| 05:18 | <FLHerne> | Try little chunks of apple. They like those :-) |
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| 06:31 | <MNIM> | that's why smart people use mice with tails |
| 06:31 | <V453000> | ^^ |
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| 06:45 | <peter1138> | When I look in real shops, they only have crappy laptop-companion mice these days :( |
| 06:46 | <V453000> | eshops sound real enough to me :P |
| 06:46 | <peter1138> | Can't try it out for feel then, though. |
| 06:47 | <Xaroth|Work> | laptop companion mice suck balls for working >1h with |
| 06:47 | <MNIM> | laptop companion mice suck hairy balls to work with, period |
| 06:48 | <peter1138> | G600 MMO mouse... 15 fecking buttons o_O |
| 06:48 | <Xaroth|Work> | if you quickly need to do something I prefer those over a trackpad |
| 06:48 | <Japa_> | Nothing beats a trackpoint, though. |
| 06:48 | <V453000> | I bought Steelseries Sensei RAW Rubberized, superb for the price ... with no extra fecking buttons :) |
| 06:49 | <Xaroth|Work> | mx518 <3 |
| 06:49 | <Xaroth|Work> | even made my boss get me one for work |
| 06:49 | <Japa_> | Incidentally, what's the maturity rating of this channel? |
| 06:50 | <Xaroth|Work> | depends on the time of day, really |
| 06:51 | <Japa_> | Just wondering weather to use TrackPoint™-style pointer, or clit-mouse. |
| 06:52 | <Xaroth|Work> | ... |
| 06:53 | <peter1138> | They're not much of an option for a desktop PC. |
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| 06:53 | <Japa_> | Not without a $50 keyboard, anyway. |
| 06:53 | <peter1138> | I'm not willing to waste money on a crappy keyboard just for it. |
| 06:54 | <Japa_> | And yeah, buying online can lead to surprises. |
| 06:54 | <peter1138> | I have a £70 keyboard, heh. |
| 06:54 | <Japa_> | I bought a razor gaming mouse online, and it turned out tiny. |
| 06:54 | <Japa_> | come to think of it, had a similar experience with my girlfriend. |
| 06:55 | <peter1138> | You bought a girlfriend online? |
| 06:55 | <V453000> | LOL |
| 06:55 | <Xaroth|Work> | your girlfriend said it turned out tiny? |
| 06:55 | <V453000> | well razer is cute but stupidly expensive for what they bring imo |
| 06:56 | <Japa_> | I didn't buy her, but I did get to know her online first before meeting her later in person. She barely reaches my shoulder. |
| 06:56 | <peter1138> | Better wait til she's older then. |
| 06:56 | <V453000> | ._. this channel is weird |
| 06:56 | <juzza1> | haha |
| 06:57 | <Xaroth|Work> | peter1138: you were too fast :P |
| 06:57 | <Japa_> | Pecio, she's older than I am. |
| 06:57 | <Japa_> | by half a year |
| 06:58 | <V453000> | still doesnt mean you are over 15 |
| 06:58 | <Japa_> | I'm 26, she's 27 |
| 06:58 | <Xaroth|Work> | ffs, people keep typing faster than me :p |
| 06:58 | <Japa_> | And here's a picture of my mouse. http://i45.tinypic.com/muixhw.jpg |
| 06:58 | <peter1138> | That razer is ... tiny ... |
| 06:59 | <peter1138> | The MS mouse is quite nice while it still works. |
| 06:59 | <peter1138> | Eventually the buttons give up though. |
| 06:59 | <peter1138> | Been through a few of them... |
| 06:59 | <LordAro> | peter1138: you should get a rat instead ;) http://www.cyborggaming.com/prod/rat7.htm |
| 07:00 | <Japa_> | Yeah, when I first opened the box, my reaction was all "the fuck is this shit?" |
| 07:00 | <peter1138> | They seem to be adjustable from very small to a bit less small |
| 07:00 | <Japa_> | I've grown to love it, though. |
| 07:02 | <MNIM> | So |
| 07:02 | <MNIM> | am I the only one who's perfectly fine with the standard compaq mouse that came with my PC? |
| 07:03 | <peter1138> | http://i.ebayimg.com/t/M-S34-Compaq-Mouse-/00/s/MTIwMFgxNjAw/z/6ZQAAOxyTjNScl9q/$T2eC16VHJFwFFZ8RnuyZBScl9p7lK!~~60_35.JPG |
| 07:03 | <peter1138> | like that? :p |
| 07:04 | <Japa_> | MNIM, I buy new mice when old ones no longer function. |
| 07:05 | <V453000> | ^ |
| 07:06 | <Eddi|zuHause> | i had a microsoft mouse once, it broke after half a year, and the warranty replacement a year later. then i switched to logitech |
| 07:06 | <Eddi|zuHause> | ... which i had to warranty-replace after 2.5 years again |
| 07:06 | <peter1138> | I find the non-slip pads come off eventually. |
| 07:07 | <peter1138> | And then the plastic wears, and then it wobbles. |
| 07:07 | <Eddi|zuHause> | yeah, the pseudo-leather thing around the mouse wheel |
| 07:07 | <Eddi|zuHause> | it dissolves into tiny particles which block everything on the inside |
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| 07:16 | <MNIM> | peter1138: pretty much, but slightly newer and blacker. (2008) |
| 07:17 | <peter1138> | Gosh, you must be a keyboard-warrior for a mouse to last that long :) |
| 07:19 | <frosch123> | both my keyboard and mouse are from around 2000 |
| 07:20 | <Tulitomaatti> | i had my first mouse last me from around 2002 to 2010 or so |
| 07:20 | <Tulitomaatti> | 'first' as in first optical |
| 07:20 | <frosch123> | the mouse once had some gumming, but it got lost over the years |
| 07:20 | <Eddi|zuHause> | now can one endure a mouse without wheel? |
| 07:20 | <frosch123> | it kind of has the shape of my hand now :p |
| 07:21 | <frosch123> | wasn't there a xkcd about people not using mouse wheels? |
| 07:21 | <peter1138> | Hmm, I've got a dual-optics mouse somewhere. |
| 07:21 | <Eddi|zuHause> | yeah, i think there was |
| 07:22 | <Eddi|zuHause> | in ~20 years of computer usage i had like 10 mice |
| 07:22 | <Eddi|zuHause> | some longer, others shorter |
| 07:23 | <frosch123> | yeah, that was the case before i got the first generation of optical mouses |
| 07:24 | <peter1138> | Cleaning yer balls |
| 07:25 | <frosch123> | actually, most likely the cause was that i also bought a ps/2 wire extension |
| 07:25 | <frosch123> | so that the wire had actually a sufficient length |
| 07:27 | <frosch123> | (mind that i tried wireless before, but it turned out crap) |
| 07:27 | <Eddi|zuHause> | early wireless was crap, but nowadays it's good |
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| 07:28 | <Eddi|zuHause> | just the rechargable batteries don't last very long |
| 07:28 | <Eddi|zuHause> | about 2-3 weeks |
| 07:29 | <Eddi|zuHause> | non-rechargables were advertised to last about a year, but they were empty after about 3 months. and i'm not buying batteries that often |
| 07:30 | <frosch123> | yeah, batteries were always empty when i needed the mouse the most |
| 07:30 | <frosch123> | today i avoid any battery powered devices |
| 07:31 | <frosch123> | sadly there are only battery powered cell phones |
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| 07:31 | <Eddi|zuHause> | empty batteries refresh your skills in keyboard-accessibility :p |
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| 07:32 | <MNIM> | peter1138: possibly |
| 07:32 | <Eddi|zuHause> | well, rechargables are fine, i just switch them with the ones in the DECT phone |
| 07:32 | <MNIM> | also, I have a wacom tablet which I use(d) for most mouse duties |
| 07:32 | <Eddi|zuHause> | just the warning that the batteries get empty is sometimes not working |
| 07:33 | <MNIM> | sadly that one has died on me this year. |
| 07:33 | <peter1138> | Dunno where the mouse for my Wacom has gone, but it doesn't have a wheel anyway :( |
| 07:33 | <peter1138> | Also, it's awkward using a mouse with a fixed surface. |
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| 08:03 | <Thurak> | what settings would be good to make for a harder difficulty |
| 08:05 | <V453000> | everything cheap, let everyone get tons of trains |
| 08:05 | <V453000> | nothing is hardest |
| 08:05 | <V453000> | harder* :) |
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| 08:10 | <Thurak> | well, lots of rivers will be harder |
| 08:11 | <frosch123> | Thurak: just in case: there is no point in trying to make ottd harder with money. all income in ottd grows exponential with how much you are building |
| 08:11 | <frosch123> | so, higher costs only make the early game slower and boring |
| 08:11 | <frosch123> | but they change nothing overall |
| 08:11 | <V453000> | ^ |
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| 08:11 | <frosch123> | you cannot make ottd "hard", you can only make it "interesting" |
| 08:11 | <frosch123> | by providing non-money challenges or non-money goals |
| 08:11 | <Thurak> | what makes it more interesting then |
| 08:12 | <Thurak> | oh, like fill in the ocean or something like that |
| 08:12 | <frosch123> | mountains, no terraforoming, short bridges and tunnels |
| 08:12 | <V453000> | e.g. have a large network with many trains transporting a lot of cargo while making it look nice |
| 08:12 | <V453000> | just an example |
| 08:13 | <Thurak> | just making a rail look nice is a challenge for me atm.. |
| 08:13 | <V453000> | level 2, invent something interesting how to make the network |
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| 08:13 | <V453000> | well then consider if you running a server is a good option :P |
| 08:13 | <V453000> | perhaps learning something first is a good idea |
| 08:14 | <Eddi|zuHause> | <frosch123> mountains, no terraforoming, short bridges and tunnels <-- and steep slopes |
| 08:14 | <Thurak> | normally i start with something like a few truck networks, once i get a resonable amount of money i make a few long distance rails |
| 08:14 | <Eddi|zuHause> | then early newgrf (ca. 1850) |
| 08:15 | <Thurak> | i started this one on 1800 |
| 08:15 | <V453000> | steep slopes can be massively abused on downhills Eddi :P |
| 08:15 | <Eddi|zuHause> | V453000: we need to model braking power for that :) |
| 08:15 | <Thurak> | i have a newgrf that would allow me to start in 1700, but that would leave me using the same 4 horse truck for 120 years |
| 08:16 | <Eddi|zuHause> | low braking power => massively reduced speed limit downhill |
| 08:16 | <V453000> | that sounds rather dumb |
| 08:16 | <V453000> | you want your train to accelerate on the downhill :) |
| 08:16 | <V453000> | increasing steepness would then only hurt uphill for no gain on downhill |
| 08:16 | <V453000> | now it is nice balance |
| 08:17 | <Thurak> | i see nothing wrong with a steam engine going 300mph down a near vertical slope :) |
| 08:17 | <Eddi|zuHause> | for certain values of "nice" and "balance" :p |
| 08:22 | <Thurak> | can you turn off the warning messages for vehciles making a loss? |
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| 08:22 | <Thurak> | these horses move at 13kmh, takes just over a year to make a £330 trip, but they cost £37/year, making a large profit but some years they wont have quite made a delivery, so the game says im losing money from them |
| 08:23 | <V453000> | perhaps start the game in some intelligent date like 1920 for most newGRFs |
| 08:24 | <juzza1> | go to advanced settings - vehicles - warn if a vehicle's income is negative |
| 08:24 | <Thurak> | thx, and date wouldnt help much because when i have faster things i will have them go further :P |
| 08:24 | <Thurak> | i often have trips that last over a year, large map size |
| 08:25 | <V453000> | enjoy the large map size then |
| 08:25 | <Thurak> | i went for 1024x1024 |
| 08:25 | <V453000> | honestly having things go 100-200 tiles is about maximum reasonable for start |
| 08:26 | <V453000> | 512*512 is more than enough for anything :) |
| 08:26 | <Thurak> | what about vacuum rails |
| 08:26 | <Thurak> | that travel 4000kmh |
| 08:26 | <V453000> | when I play alone I generally stay in an area within 256x256 |
| 08:26 | <V453000> | trains that travel so fast I can barely see them? why |
| 08:26 | <V453000> | I would rather use a smaller map I can actually fill, lags less, and is more fun |
| 08:27 | <Thurak> | ah, my notebook is fast enough i dont get lag on this size |
| 08:27 | <MNIM> | huh. |
| 08:27 | <Thurak> | at least i dont get, i might if i had lots more stuff on it |
| 08:28 | <MNIM> | my road vehicle income is just as large as my train income. |
| 08:28 | <V453000> | well making more things on smaller space is more interesting anyway |
| 08:28 | <V453000> | e.g. building a long straight line is just plain dull |
| 08:28 | <Thurak> | i like to have both |
| 08:29 | <V453000> | make 500 trains on 256x256, much more entertaining and interesting |
| 08:29 | <V453000> | or 1000, idk how much you feel like :) |
| 08:30 | <Thurak> | isnt that where you start turning the map into a circuitboard of rails? |
| 08:31 | <V453000> | isnt that the point? |
| 08:31 | <Thurak> | i think the most i have got to so far is 2 rails each way |
| 08:32 | <V453000> | doesnt mean you cant get further :) |
| 08:33 | <Thurak> | thats as far as the industry grew |
| 08:33 | <Thurak> | not sure if passengers would be better |
| 08:34 | <V453000> | well you need many industries for sure :P |
| 08:34 | <Thurak> | yes, that was my main one tho as it had been growing since i started |
| 08:34 | <V453000> | cant say I would consider 1 industry a "network" :) |
| 08:34 | <Thurak> | think ill try build up some citys |
| 08:44 | <Thurak> | why am i getting 'autorenew failed on vehicle xx (money limit) |
| 08:44 | <Thurak> | the renew cost is about £1000, i have £100,000 |
| 08:45 | <juzza1> | by default you need 200k for the renew to work, you can change it in the settings |
| 08:45 | <Thurak> | ah right |
| 08:46 | <Thurak> | i guess thats to stop you accidently spending everything you have |
| 08:46 | <V453000> | autorenew is worthless if you have breakdowns off (which you honestly should) |
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| 08:48 | <Thurak> | i was replacing with faster vehicles |
| 08:48 | <Thurak> | but the message still calls it autorenew |
| 08:49 | <V453000> | oh :0 |
| 08:49 | <V453000> | well disabling those messages is also a good idea :D |
| 08:51 | <Thurak> | seems to be replacing as i go over 100k |
| 08:52 | <Thurak> | when my money drops below 100k it rails upgrade |
| 08:52 | <Thurak> | fails* |
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| 08:52 | <Thurak> | well its almost done them now anyway |
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| 09:12 | <Thurak> | is there a limit to the size a city can grow |
| 09:12 | <V453000> | 2-3 millions |
| 09:14 | <Thurak> | 2^31 by any chance? |
| 09:15 | <V453000> | not ^ anything |
| 09:15 | <V453000> | simply the point where houses start dying the same speed as growing |
| 09:16 | <Thurak> | ah right |
| 09:16 | <Thurak> | i was thinking it was 2147483647 as thats the limit of 32bit numbers |
| 09:17 | <V453000> | .. |
| 09:24 | <NGC3982> | Can someone hilight me, please. |
| 09:24 | <V453000> | no markers around |
| 09:25 | <NGC3982> | \o/ |
| 09:31 | -!- | Ristovski [~rafael@89.205.3.77] has joined #openttd |
| 09:36 | <scshunt> | NGC3982: HI |
| 09:36 | <NGC3982> | Thanks |
| 09:40 | <Xaroth|Work> | NGC3982: you know that's asking for trouble right? |
| 09:40 | <peter1138> | When I need to know the limits of this game, I don't look at the source code, I ask V453000... |
| 09:40 | <NGC3982> | Xaroth|Work: ;-) |
| 09:40 | <V453000> | :d |
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| 10:09 | <@Rubidium> | @calc 2046*2046*2/3*255 |
| 10:09 | <@DorpsGek> | Rubidium: 711639720 |
| 10:09 | <V453000> | congratulations you got a high number :D |
| 10:09 | <V453000> | :P |
| 10:10 | <@Rubidium> | ^ that is the maximum a town can grow, although maybe you can get it slightly further if you can bring the road density down even more |
| 10:10 | <V453000> | did you try? :) |
| 10:10 | <@Rubidium> | no, it's more a theoretical maximum |
| 10:10 | <V453000> | above 2-3m, houses are just replaced, population stops increasing :) |
| 10:10 | <V453000> | is theoretical any useful? :P |
| 10:11 | <adf88> | theoretically there can be no roads |
| 10:11 | <adf88> | at all |
| 10:11 | <V453000> | :D |
| 10:11 | <adf88> | :p |
| 10:11 | <@Rubidium> | adf88: true, but then they don't grow and die pretty quickly |
| 10:11 | <@Rubidium> | @calc 2046*2046*255 |
| 10:11 | <@DorpsGek> | Rubidium: 1067459580 |
| 10:11 | <V453000> | nuff sed :D me goes home |
| 10:12 | <@Rubidium> | @calc 2047*2047*255 |
| 10:12 | <@DorpsGek> | Rubidium: 1068503295 |
| 10:12 | <@Rubidium> | ^ that's the number in that case ;) |
| 10:13 | <@Rubidium> | V453000: I agree, lets go home ;) |
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| 10:13 | <frosch123> | V453000: your observation restricts the number of houses |
| 10:13 | <frosch123> | you still need a house sets which sets population to max for each house |
| 10:17 | <Snowfyre> | is there any way to remove a city? |
| 10:19 | <adf88> | only in scenario editor |
| 10:23 | -!- | kais58|A1K is now known as kais58__5 |
| 10:24 | <George> | Hi. I'd like to ask about FS#5588 |
| 10:25 | <George> | It's time after time I return back to this fnctionality |
| 10:25 | <George> | And miss it again and again |
| 10:25 | <George> | Is it that hard to do? |
| 10:25 | <George> | Could someone please do it? |
| 10:26 | <George> | All I need is a possibility to disallow refit |
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| 10:47 | <Eddi|zuHause> | <Rubidium> @calc 2046*2046*2/3*255 <-- if you have parallel roads every 4th tile, you have 3/4-epsilon. just have to remove stump roads all the time |
| 10:48 | <Eddi|zuHause> | (epsilon is for the connection between the roads, preferably through the town center) |
| 10:52 | <Eddi|zuHause> | if you don't want to remove the stump roads, you can have 3x4 grids, so 12 houses out of 20 tiles, meaning 3/5 (assuming "better roads") |
| 10:52 | <Eddi|zuHause> | on 4x4 you don't get houses on the middle tiles |
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| 10:56 | <nickshanks> | I am trying to compile on Mac OS X 10.9 and getting linker errors for functions under std::string:: Has anyone been able to compile on Mavericks yet? |
| 10:56 | <Eddi|zuHause> | try an older SDK |
| 10:56 | <Eddi|zuHause> | the newest SDK misses some 8-bit colour functions |
| 10:57 | <nickshanks> | I #if'd those out but can't seem to get past the linker |
| 10:58 | <Eddi|zuHause> | then i don't know |
| 10:58 | <nickshanks> | how would I change the SDK anyway? |
| 10:59 | <nickshanks> | Xcode 5 comes with 10.9 and 10.8 SDKs, nothing older. both of those use libstdc++.6.0.9.dylib |
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| 11:59 | <@planetmaker> | iirc you can get the older sdk from the apple site, nickshanks |
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| 12:02 | <__ln__> | but since a lot of people have successfully compiled OpenTTD on 10.8, i don't see why using 10.8 SDK wouldn't work. |
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| 12:33 | <Wolf01> | o/ |
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| 12:43 | <Eddi|zuHause> | speaking of which, anyone considered a "--without-8bpp" configure switch? |
| 13:00 | <@DorpsGek> | Commit by planetmaker :: r25938 trunk/src/object_cmd.cpp (2013-11-04 17:59:58 UTC) |
| 13:00 | <@DorpsGek> | -Fix [FS#5798] (r25876): Don't mistake a lighthouse for a transmitter and vice versa |
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| 13:45 | <@DorpsGek> | Commit by translators :: r25939 /trunk/src/lang (japanese.txt latvian.txt) (2013-11-04 18:45:15 UTC) |
| 13:45 | <@DorpsGek> | -Update from WebTranslator v3.0: |
| 13:45 | <@DorpsGek> | japanese - 1 changes by guppy |
| 13:45 | <@DorpsGek> | latvian - 15 changes by Parastais |
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| 13:52 | <nickshanks> | planetmaker: i've just looked and don't see anything on developer.apple.com/downloads/ nor in the downloads tab of the Xcode prefs. I cannot connect to connect.apple.com at the moment (ironically) |
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| 13:58 | <@planetmaker> | you might need to login to apple and you can get XCode and SDKs to at least 10.4 backwards |
| 13:59 | <@planetmaker> | https://developer.apple.com/downloads/index.action |
| 14:00 | <@planetmaker> | sometimes they're bundled with an old version of XCode |
| 14:01 | <nickshanks> | agh, well i have various macs with older Xcode's on them, can I just copy over the SDK bundles? I presumed i had to get ones that were specific to Xcode 5 |
| 14:01 | -!- | MNIM [~mBuntu@ip5452ffad.adsl-surfen.hetnet.nl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] |
| 14:01 | <@planetmaker> | obviously it's not possible to provide links to SDKs directly |
| 14:02 | <@planetmaker> | SDK and XCode are different stuff really. For OpenTTD you don't need XCode at all |
| 14:02 | -!- | Alberth [~hat@a82-95-164-127.adsl.xs4all.nl] has joined #openttd |
| 14:02 | -!- | mode/#openttd [+o Alberth] by ChanServ |
| 14:02 | <nickshanks> | are you a/theresident mac developer? |
| 14:02 | <@Alberth> | me? no |
| 14:02 | <@planetmaker> | I'd not call myself that |
| 14:02 | <@planetmaker> | hi Alberth |
| 14:03 | <@Alberth> | hi planetmaker |
| 14:03 | <nickshanks> | who would be the name to look out for in this channel? |
| 14:03 | <@planetmaker> | But I'm the only OpenTTD developer who acknowledges to possess apple hardware, a (meanwhile very old) macbook |
| 14:03 | <@Alberth> | nobody, there isn't a resident mac developer |
| 14:03 | <@planetmaker> | ^ |
| 14:03 | <__ln__> | please, *Xcode |
| 14:03 | <@planetmaker> | __ln__, no |
| 14:03 | <@Alberth> | we are still looking for one |
| 14:04 | <nickshanks> | okay, well once i am up and running I don't mind being that person. |
| 14:04 | <@planetmaker> | I said that once, too ;-) |
| 14:04 | <nickshanks> | i am a the resident mac developer on FreeCol |
| 14:04 | <@Alberth> | plenty of open issues to fix :p |
| 14:04 | <@planetmaker> | It started to annoy me that apple breaks things on an annual basis |
| 14:04 | <LordAro> | didn't michicc fix most of them? |
| 14:05 | <@planetmaker> | he fixed some. But without access to apple hardware |
| 14:05 | <@planetmaker> | at least afaik |
| 14:05 | <__ln__> | nickshanks: 19:02 < __ln__> but since a lot of people have successfully compiled OpenTTD on 10.8, i don't see why using 10.8 SDK wouldn't work. |
| 14:05 | <nickshanks> | i just got myself a retina MBP with 16 GB of ram and an SSD (my first machine with one) |
| 14:06 | <nickshanks> | __ln__: thanks for repeating: i had just left the office at that time, so didn't catch the message |
| 14:06 | <nickshanks> | how does one switch SDKs with ./configure + make |
| 14:06 | <__ln__> | you specify the SDK to use in the CFLAGS |
| 14:07 | <nickshanks> | agh, i was messing about with LDFLAGS trying to fix the linker :) |
| 14:07 | <nickshanks> | why when i type ahh does OS X keep changing it? hmm, another mystery of Apple |
| 14:08 | <nickshanks> | spelling learnt |
| 14:09 | <LordAro> | planetmaker: which makes it all the more impressive :) |
| 14:11 | <@planetmaker> | nickshanks, you might need to provide also a different isystem=... |
| 14:12 | -!- | andythenorth [~Andy@cpc10-aztw26-2-0-cust867.18-1.cable.virginm.net] has joined #openttd |
| 14:12 | <nickshanks> | 3 questions with that, what is -i, what is system, and what valid values are there? |
| 14:17 | <nickshanks> | i googled for ./configure cflags macosx sdk and am now compiling with -mmacosx-version-min and -isysroot |
| 14:17 | <@planetmaker> | right... I need to start recalling the details |
| 14:17 | <@planetmaker> | isysroot yes |
| 14:18 | <nickshanks> | does CXXFLAGS have to match CFLAGS? |
| 14:18 | <nickshanks> | same linker failuer |
| 14:18 | <@planetmaker> | well, not 100%. But the differences are defined in config.lib |
| 14:18 | <@planetmaker> | the rest better be the same usually |
| 14:19 | <nickshanks> | i will try copying an older sdk |
| 14:20 | <@planetmaker> | they go in /Developer/SDKs |
| 14:20 | <@planetmaker> | but you likely know that :-) |
| 14:20 | <nickshanks> | not any more :) |
| 14:20 | <nickshanks> | they co in /Applications/Xcode.app/ |
| 14:21 | <nickshanks> | I've been a Mac programmer for 19 years. you'd think i'd be good at this :D |
| 14:21 | <__ln__> | correctomundo, they don't use /Developer anymore at all |
| 14:21 | <@planetmaker> | see, then you know all that stuff much better than me |
| 14:21 | <__ln__> | nickshanks: what have you been doing if you've never needed to specify the SDK to use in 19 years? |
| 14:22 | <nickshanks> | never need to specify it with makefiles |
| 14:22 | <nickshanks> | either used ProjectBuilder/Xcode or SDKs did exist |
| 14:22 | <@planetmaker> | well. You usually don't here either. As the makefile will find the appropriate one |
| 14:22 | <nickshanks> | e.g. CodeWarrior |
| 14:23 | <@planetmaker> | But if you want the non-default, thus an older one... :-) |
| 14:23 | <andythenorth> | what are we doing? Compiling on Mavericks? o_O |
| 14:23 | <nickshanks> | yes |
| 14:23 | <andythenorth> | mm |
| 14:23 | <nickshanks> | with Xcode 5.0.1 |
| 14:23 | <andythenorth> | it can be done |
| 14:23 | <LordAro> | nickshanks: in case you haven't noticed, configure/makefile is hand-written - nothing is likely to be entirely 'normal' ;) |
| 14:23 | <andythenorth> | kerno(?) worked it out |
| 14:23 | <andythenorth> | link to the 10.8 SDK |
| 14:24 | <andythenorth> | and turn of lzma and something else |
| 14:24 | <andythenorth> | and set some flags |
| 14:24 | <andythenorth> | it's all in the logs from last week or so |
| 14:24 | <@planetmaker> | while that's a workaround, that's not a good solution in the mid-term |
| 14:24 | <@planetmaker> | why turn-off lzma? That's a totally different 3rd-party lib? |
| 14:24 | <nickshanks> | andythenorth: where can i read those logs? |
| 14:24 | <@planetmaker> | @logs |
| 14:24 | <@DorpsGek> | planetmaker: http://irclogs.qmsk.net/channels/openttd |
| 14:24 | <nickshanks> | ausomeomatic |
| 14:25 | * | andythenorth searches |
| 14:25 | <nickshanks> | crap, can't type yet on this new kbd |
| 14:25 | <@planetmaker> | did they also re-arrange keys? :D |
| 14:25 | <nickshanks> | yes, they are further apart |
| 14:25 | <andythenorth> | here we go http://irclogs.qmsk.net/channels/openttd/date/2013-10-26?page=2 |
| 14:25 | <andythenorth> | we should wiki that :P |
| 14:26 | <andythenorth> | zydeco worked it out iirc |
| 14:26 | <andythenorth> | I tested it on my wife's mac |
| 14:27 | <nickshanks> | i disabled lama, and #if'd out the 8 bit stuff, but am stuck at the linker issue |
| 14:28 | <andythenorth> | iirc, I edited nothing |
| 14:28 | <@Rubidium> | just install ubuntu. It already got 10.10 |
| 14:28 | <andythenorth> | just set flags on configure and make |
| 14:28 | <andythenorth> | can't check now |
| 14:28 | <andythenorth> | but it's all in those logs :) |
| 14:28 | <nickshanks> | zydeco used LDFLAGS="-stdlib=libstdc++" |
| 14:29 | <nickshanks> | that'll be the fix i need |
| 14:29 | <andythenorth> | planetmaker: the lzma is unrelated to 10.9, but I couldn't get a valid version on a clean-installed mavericks |
| 14:29 | <andythenorth> | I tried brew. I refuse macports. It was easier to ignore it |
| 14:32 | <@planetmaker> | andythenorth, I refuse brew. I read their instructions and they are as safe as rm -rf /* |
| 14:32 | <andythenorth> | it's written in ruby, what could go wrong? :P |
| 14:32 | <andythenorth> | famously high standards |
| 14:32 | <andythenorth> | planetmaker: that leaves us with no decent package manager on OS X :( |
| 14:32 | <andythenorth> | macports is a world of shame |
| 14:33 | <@planetmaker> | why? |
| 14:35 | <nickshanks> | compiled, linked, running |
| 14:35 | <nickshanks> | yay :) |
| 14:35 | <andythenorth> | winner |
| 14:35 | <nickshanks> | where might i find the development graphics sets? |
| 14:36 | <nickshanks> | I will update the wiki (if "the public" have such permission) |
| 14:36 | <andythenorth> | nickshanks: thanks :) |
| 14:36 | <andythenorth> | appreciated |
| 14:36 | <nickshanks> | anyway, much go sort out screaming baby |
| 14:36 | <andythenorth> | hah |
| 14:36 | <nickshanks> | thanks all |
| 14:36 | -!- | nickshanks [~nickshank@46.65.41.135] has quit [Quit: nickshanks] |
| 14:36 | <andythenorth> | must have the same life as me |
| 14:37 | <andythenorth> | so did I miss anything? |
| 14:37 | <V453000> | everything |
| 14:41 | <andythenorth> | frosch123: I was thinking about the simple suggestion for tech levels (just use a fake date) |
| 14:42 | <andythenorth> | I like the simplicity, but I wonder if it makes it hard to do 'level up' |
| 14:42 | <andythenorth> | the GS might advance from 1951 tech to 1953 tech |
| 14:42 | <andythenorth> | with no result |
| 14:43 | -!- | DJGummikuh [~johannes@ip-88-152-168-146.unitymediagroup.de] has joined #openttd |
| 14:43 | <DJGummikuh> | Hello! |
| 14:43 | <DJGummikuh> | Is there ANY way (hacks will do) to connect the openttd ingame chat to an irc channel? |
| 14:44 | <@planetmaker> | obviously yes. At least two |
| 14:44 | <DJGummikuh> | huh? I did some googling and turned up nothing |
| 14:44 | <@planetmaker> | the old deprecated way is to use a wrapper like ap+ |
| 14:44 | <@Alberth> | oh dear, google is missing some information! |
| 14:44 | <DJGummikuh> | and the new, shiny way? |
| 14:44 | <@planetmaker> | and the new and supported way is to interface the admin port with a bot which can transfer the chat between game and IRC |
| 14:44 | <DJGummikuh> | Alberth: haha, jus wanted to state that I did not try google first :) |
| 14:45 | <DJGummikuh> | err that I DID try google first |
| 14:45 | <DJGummikuh> | planetmaker: is there documentation on that? |
| 14:45 | <@planetmaker> | I http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/soap or https://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/grapes |
| 14:45 | <@planetmaker> | are two implementations |
| 14:45 | <__ln__> | and the third way is to hire someone in india to manually type messages back and forth |
| 14:46 | <DJGummikuh> | __ln__: are you offering yourself? ;) |
| 14:46 | <@Alberth> | or hire someone to do it for you |
| 14:46 | <NGC3982> | Poop. |
| 14:46 | <__ln__> | DJGummikuh: sorry, never been to india |
| 14:46 | <@planetmaker> | __ln__, distinctly doesn't look Indian |
| 14:46 | <DJGummikuh> | well fiji will do :) |
| 14:47 | <DJGummikuh> | oh how brilliant... grapes is java <3 |
| 14:48 | <DJGummikuh> | We're planning on building up a community with several games with their chats all linked to each other cross-game |
| 14:48 | <DJGummikuh> | being a java programmer, grapes suits my needs perfectly |
| 14:48 | <DJGummikuh> | thanks for the help |
| 14:49 | <@planetmaker> | DJGummikuh, if you want to develop based on grapes, I'm sure the author will happily accept patches or collaborate |
| 14:50 | * | Xaroth|Work shudders |
| 14:50 | <DJGummikuh> | Xaroth|Work: huh? |
| 14:50 | <@planetmaker> | :-) |
| 14:50 | <@planetmaker> | he's the author of the python lib which soap is based on |
| 14:51 | <Xaroth|Work> | aye |
| 14:51 | <Xaroth|Work> | all the pull requests Taede makes |
| 14:51 | <Xaroth|Work> | pfff :P |
| 14:51 | <@planetmaker> | :) He's quite industrious |
| 14:51 | <Xaroth|Work> | speaking of which, is soap in use already? |
| 14:51 | <Xaroth|Work> | or in test still? |
| 14:52 | <@planetmaker> | it's not yet in production use. Though I actual plan to do that rather sooner than later |
| 14:52 | <@planetmaker> | we're kinda beta-testing it now |
| 14:53 | <Xaroth|Work> | nice |
| 14:53 | <DJGummikuh> | "production"? |
| 14:54 | <DJGummikuh> | ah by the way one thing that always bothered me since I first played transport tycoon - why are the planes so friggin slow and only sped up by option? |
| 14:54 | <@planetmaker> | well. Use on the #openttdcoop servers |
| 14:54 | <Xaroth|Work> | because planes are otherwise overpowered as boot |
| 14:54 | <DJGummikuh> | huh? how so? Expensive as hell and limited cargo hold |
| 14:54 | <@planetmaker> | planes are no-brain money. Even more than anything else. No need to make them no-brain mega-money |
| 14:54 | <DJGummikuh> | having a 20 car train running all across the map is way way more profitable than 40 planes |
| 14:55 | <andythenorth> | planes print money |
| 14:55 | <andythenorth> | ok so no-one bit on tech levels :( |
| 14:55 | <@Alberth> | DJGummikuh: try a smaller map |
| 14:55 | <andythenorth> | I also had an actual GS idea |
| 14:55 | <Xaroth|Work> | DJGummikuh: try having airports on either sides of the map |
| 14:55 | <DJGummikuh> | I usually do |
| 14:56 | <DJGummikuh> | and my planes always break down before making a single trip xD |
| 14:56 | <Xaroth|Work> | the bigger the map, the more vastly more money they accumulate |
| 14:56 | <DJGummikuh> | mmh |
| 14:57 | <@planetmaker> | there's simply absolute no challange in setting up an air route |
| 14:57 | <DJGummikuh> | mmh ok |
| 14:58 | <DJGummikuh> | still I like planes :) |
| 14:58 | <@planetmaker> | anyway, you got the option to set speeds for all vehicles identically. So... no problem. Just use the setting |
| 14:58 | <@planetmaker> | for people like you we have it |
| 14:58 | <DJGummikuh> | yeah but up until now I did not understand why this isn't default. now I doo |
| 14:59 | <DJGummikuh> | I must admit I'm really a fan of this channel... |
| 14:59 | <DJGummikuh> | You ask a question and get a helpful awnser |
| 14:59 | <@planetmaker> | must have found the happy hour here ;-) |
| 14:59 | <DJGummikuh> | not this" omg you n00b moron idiot you should do this and that instead of what you are intending because you are an idiot and I'm soo leet" |
| 15:00 | <andythenorth> | that happens |
| 15:00 | <andythenorth> | but mostly not |
| 15:00 | <DJGummikuh> | happens especially often in Minecraft channels ) |
| 15:00 | <DJGummikuh> | :) |
| 15:00 | <Xaroth|Work> | that's because the average age in here is 20-ood years above that of the average MC channel... |
| 15:00 | <V453000> | just dont say realism and you are rather safe |
| 15:01 | <Xaroth|Work> | and I'm not claiming our average age is high |
| 15:01 | <@planetmaker> | hehe, Xaroth :-) yeah |
| 15:01 | <DJGummikuh> | V453000: :) btw what do you think about that "Transport Tycoon" you can buy for android? |
| 15:01 | <V453000> | im done |
| 15:01 | <@planetmaker> | though for a game channel it actually might |
| 15:02 | <@planetmaker> | And I don't think about that TT. I don't own a device which could run it |
| 15:02 | -!- | nickshanks [~nickshank@46.65.41.135] has joined #openttd |
| 15:02 | <DJGummikuh> | well my phone can run openttd for sure |
| 15:02 | <Tulitomaatti> | yes |
| 15:02 | <Tulitomaatti> | oh |
| 15:02 | <Tulitomaatti> | nevermind |
| 15:02 | <DJGummikuh> | I just don't see any TTD in the transport tycoon you can buy there |
| 15:02 | <DJGummikuh> | Tulitomaatti: :D |
| 15:02 | <V453000> | then play openttd because it is probably endlessly better than that thing you just mentioned |
| 15:03 | <Tulitomaatti> | damn mental hilights. |
| 15:03 | <DJGummikuh> | V453000: what I love most is that you can play on PC servers :) I mean which commercial game offers that? |
| 15:03 | <V453000> | no idea |
| 15:03 | <DJGummikuh> | none I could think of |
| 15:03 | <V453000> | which commercial game runs on mac? :D |
| 15:04 | <DJGummikuh> | well mac and android are two different things [citation needed] |
| 15:04 | <Tulitomaatti> | sc2, most blizzard games (up to snow lion) |
| 15:04 | <Tulitomaatti> | eve, i guess wow does as well. many source engine games. |
| 15:04 | <nickshanks> | all Bungie games up until Halo :) |
| 15:05 | <@planetmaker> | wasteland2 ;-) |
| 15:05 | <DJGummikuh> | yeah but as said, android is a completely different thing. because you usually don't have keboard and mouse there, which gives you either an advantage or an disatvantage |
| 15:05 | <Tulitomaatti> | http://store.steampowered.com/browse/mac/ |
| 15:05 | <Tulitomaatti> | anything there is supposed to work. |
| 15:05 | <Tulitomaatti> | though i'm still kinda mad at apple for removing rosetta stone support |
| 15:05 | <V453000> | supposed to is good wording |
| 15:05 | <Tulitomaatti> | that makes running old blizzard games a PITA |
| 15:06 | <nickshanks> | mac games: feralinteractive.com macplay.com aspyr.com are all my old friends and/or ex-employers |
| 15:06 | <Tulitomaatti> | V453000: all the ones i've tried work. |
| 15:06 | <Tulitomaatti> | though i do have a couple of cursewords reserved for the os x port/version keeping up/matching with the pc version (multiplayer issues) |
| 15:06 | <V453000> | then you have a slight more objective advantage over my research over my 0, but that still does not stop me from random whining \o/ |
| 15:07 | <Tulitomaatti> | i shall go acquire foodstuffs |
| 15:07 | <nickshanks> | sorry i had to dash earlier, but can someone give me a link to where i can get the graphics for SVN builds? |
| 15:07 | <Tulitomaatti> | my parmesan and some of it's friends had turned in to science projects in the fridge |
| 15:08 | <andythenorth> | nickshanks: baby drama resolved? |
| 15:08 | <@planetmaker> | nickshanks, http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/opengfx/ |
| 15:08 | <nickshanks> | Weird Al - Livin' in the fridge |
| 15:08 | <@planetmaker> | last push or last nightly |
| 15:09 | <@planetmaker> | http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/opengfx/nightlies/v5051/opengfx-5055.zip |
| 15:09 | <@planetmaker> | ^ to be precise |
| 15:09 | <@planetmaker> | which reminds me.... meh |
| 15:09 | <nickshanks> | why to 5056.zip ? |
| 15:10 | <nickshanks> | *why not |
| 15:10 | <@planetmaker> | oh. missed it. yes |
| 15:10 | <@planetmaker> | that's one day newer |
| 15:10 | * | nickshanks wonders what happened 5,056 days ago |
| 15:10 | <@planetmaker> | do the maths :-) |
| 15:11 | <@planetmaker> | but you should do the math back from the commit date. Though I think it is today. Or yesterday |
| 15:11 | <@planetmaker> | hm... |
| 15:13 | <@planetmaker> | nothing notworthy actually happend then. But not few wer surprised by that |
| 15:13 | <@planetmaker> | *were |
| 15:14 | <nickshanks> | I am copying thr 10.4, 10.5 and 10.6 sdks from an Xcode 3 folder |
| 15:14 | <nickshanks> | will go look for 10.7 in an xcode 4 install later |
| 15:16 | <@planetmaker> | btw: FOLDER="v`getdays2000`" |
| 15:16 | <@planetmaker> | ;-) |
| 15:17 | <V453000> | there is no folder called v. |
| 15:17 | <@planetmaker> | http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/opengfx/nightlies/v5051/ <-- I think there is :D |
| 15:17 | <V453000> | impersonation! :( |
| 15:17 | <nickshanks> | my first job will be to add retina support (aka detection) |
| 15:18 | <nickshanks> | anyway, time to put the kids to bed. thanks for the help. |
| 15:18 | -!- | nickshanks [~nickshank@46.65.41.135] has quit [Quit: nickshanks] |
| 15:18 | <V453000> | put them to their rest! |
| 15:20 | -!- | pear [pear@b.clients.kiwiirc.com] has joined #openttd |
| 15:23 | <@Alberth> | Luckily it will take a lot of days before we have several V453000 |
| 15:23 | -!- | nickshanks [~nickshank@46.65.41.135] has joined #openttd |
| 15:23 | <V453000> | (: |
| 15:24 | <Taede> | ello |
| 15:24 | <V453000> | you better be happy about that |
| 15:24 | <@Alberth> | :D |
| 15:25 | <@planetmaker> | hehe |
| 15:25 | <@planetmaker> | hi Taede |
| 15:27 | <Taede> | Xaroth: its not in use yet (that i know of), but its not far off |
| 15:30 | <@planetmaker> | Xaroth, basically we've prepared the server. We just need to switch the DNS to point to the new VM |
| 15:32 | <Taede> | theres a few commands missing (mainly wrt to password-keys and the endgame transfer) for the ps, other than that i think i got most |
| 15:32 | <@planetmaker> | Taede, the !transfer command is basically just a shell script being called |
| 15:32 | <Taede> | yup |
| 15:33 | <@planetmaker> | Is there support to add a generic command e.g. by having an identically-named shell script in a scripts folder or so? |
| 15:34 | <Taede> | not really |
| 15:38 | <Taede> | i may look into that, i just have to work out how those scripts would intereact with active connections |
| 15:38 | <@planetmaker> | well, not that important. Only nice-to-have :-) |
| 15:39 | <@planetmaker> | don't look into it before we actually start using it. It's v1.5 or 2.0 :) |
| 15:39 | <Taede> | hehe |
| 15:39 | <Taede> | v2 will be more modular |
| 15:39 | <@planetmaker> | as usual :P |
| 15:39 | <Taede> | but it will be a long time before i get that done |
| 15:39 | <Taede> | v1 is fairly monolithic, but it works well |
| 15:41 | -!- | nickshanks [~nickshank@46.65.41.135] has quit [Quit: nickshanks] |
| 15:41 | <@planetmaker> | that's more important than modular :-) |
| 15:41 | <@planetmaker> | modular but not working wouldn't help us get along :-) |
| 15:42 | <Taede> | nop, i just have a lot more to learn to make that work well |
| 15:42 | <@planetmaker> | :-) |
| 15:43 | <Taede> | on a related note: content update currently executes and then immediately sends rcon-end packet |
| 15:43 | <Taede> | can this rcon end packet be delayed untill the content connection is established? |
| 15:44 | <Taede> | or wiht the connection-established being an event within openttd, will this prove difficult? |
| 15:44 | <@Rubidium> | not really. All DNS resolution is done in a separate thread as it can take a while before that's done |
| 15:45 | <Taede> | fair enough, not really important anyway |
| 15:45 | <@Rubidium> | there is some internal callback somewhere though |
| 15:46 | <Taede> | threads are always fun |
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| 16:04 | <+michi_cc> | Can anybody check if current trunk together with http://www.icosahedron.de/openttd/patches/osx_109_sdk.patch still needs any other work around for compiling on OS X 10.9 with the 10.9 SDK (e.g. libstdc++)? |
| 16:05 | <andythenorth> | not now, but tomorrow if you remind me :) |
| 16:05 | <andythenorth> | unless someone else gets there first :P |
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| 16:44 | <@DorpsGek> | Commit by frosch :: r25940 /extra/website (4 files in 3 dirs) (2013-11-04 21:44:04 UTC) |
| 16:44 | <@DorpsGek> | [website] -Change: Dissolve the 'links' page into 'development', 'contact' and a new 'community' page. |
| 16:45 | <peter1138> | Is ruby just really slow, or is it gitlab? |
| 16:48 | -!- | FLHerne [~FLHerne@dsl-217-155-24-22.zen.co.uk] has left #openttd [Konversation terminated!] |
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| 16:52 | <@DorpsGek> | Commit by rubidium :: r25941 /extra/website (12 files in 7 dirs) (2013-11-04 21:52:33 UTC) |
| 16:52 | <@DorpsGek> | [Website] -Update: bananas versions, blacklist |
| 16:52 | <@DorpsGek> | [Website] -Fix: https everywhere, erroneously cached pages |
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| 17:18 | <Eddi|zuHause> | "erroneously cached pages" <-- is that the "login page is in japanese" thing? |
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| 17:24 | <frosch123> | i guess it were some attempts about that |
| 17:24 | <frosch123> | anyway, all of that stuff was done months ago |
| 17:24 | <frosch123> | only now committed :p |
| 17:32 | <Eddi|zuHause> | yeah, i guessed as much |
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| 17:54 | <Wolf01> | 'night |
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| --- | Log | closed Tue Nov 05 00:00:15 2013 |
