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#openttd IRC Logs for 2013-11-05

---Logopened Tue Nov 05 00:00:15 2013
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02:00<@planetmaker>moin
02:01<V453000>dump
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02:27<V453000>3D fagots: there is no way to move one of the viewports to 2nd screen, right? :|
02:27<V453000>in 3ds max
02:33*Supercheese does not use 3ds max
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03:34<nickshanks>i have updated http://wiki.openttd.org/Compiling_on_Mac_OS_X with the things I learnt and stuff gleaned from http://irclogs.qmsk.net/channels/openttd/date/2013-10-26?page=2 but I would appreciate it if zydeco could take a look, when he's online
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05:03<dihedral>hello
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09:24<djura-san>howdy. May i ask how to actually use AI's? I download them, select them but nothing happens. I tried "admiral" ai :\
09:26<V453000>set computer opponents: disabled
09:26<V453000>best use
09:27<@planetmaker>djura-san, how did you configure them?
09:27<@planetmaker>by default also they start a bit later than the human player. And then they need some time to think :-9
09:28<djura-san>planetmaker: i downloaded them trough bananas (:>) and i make admiral ai to start 1 day after start (ai start that is)
09:29<djura-san>I'm not sure if it's working because i get no notification about new company. Maybe it is not working as i'm thinking. For example, i did not know that they need time to start (@ planetmaker)
09:30<djura-san>I will start new city to see if something changes. This layout is ugly anyway
09:31<djura-san>wow, even uglier layout. meh
09:32<Xaroth|Work>are you working in the scenario editor or actually playing?
09:32<@planetmaker>well, you should get a notification about the start. And then they think
09:32<djura-san>Xaroth|Work: actually playing :)
09:32<@planetmaker>if you want it to start on an existing map like *now*, then open the console (accessible through the ? icon on the main toolbar) and type 'start_ai'
09:32<@planetmaker>without the '
09:32<@planetmaker>main menu config only applies to maps created after the settings were changed
09:35<djura-san>planetmaker: thank you sir. I will start right now to see how that works :)
09:36<djura-san>darn it, it says that that command is not found planetmaker. Maybe i'm using too old openttd?
09:36<Xaroth|Work>what version are you using?
09:36<djura-san>(v1.2.1)
09:36<djura-san>It is only one in debian stable repos. I'm too lazy to build up new version :|
09:37<LordAro>you sure you're not adding the quote marks?
09:37<@planetmaker>download new. http://www.openttd.org/download-stable
09:37<@planetmaker>you anyway want that, if you ever plan to play online :-)
09:37<@planetmaker>but start_ai should work in openttd since 0.7 :D (or 0.6?)
09:38<djura-san>LordAro: i'm sure mate. I will check out binaries from openttd website (totally forgot about binaries).
09:38<@planetmaker>we even have debian packages there ;-)
09:38<@planetmaker>though on debian you likely could also install the newer on from sid
09:38<@planetmaker>or from experimental or testing
09:38<djura-san>planetmaker: i just saw them. Oh boy, oh boy :D
09:39<djura-san>planetmaker: i could use sid ones but the problem is that i broke my system too many times with sid so i'm avoiding it now.
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09:39<@planetmaker>hehe, yeah :-)
09:39<@planetmaker>put it into a schroot ;-)
09:39<@planetmaker>but that's overkill and tedious
09:40<djura-san>yes it is. Anyway, i'm downloading binaries now (not debian ones) and i will just put them in my ~/bin. DOes they include open graphics and sounds too? That 11MB package?
09:41<djura-san>nope, i just saw info on site.
09:41<LordAro>nope, but it'll be able to find your existing ones
09:41<@planetmaker>just put it in your home dir in some sub-dir there
09:41<@planetmaker>that way you can easily also have multiple versions in parallel
09:41<@planetmaker>no need to install or link
09:42<@planetmaker>and wrt base graphics: the newer one probably will find your existing ones, so no need to download them anew
09:43<djura-san>thank you guys. Also i discovered new option for founding when i click to town name. Jeezas, i god 1.650K € in my first city and i discovered this now?
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09:46<djura-san>planetmaker and LordAro: just for info, i downloaded binary package, started it and it was not able to found my current open graphics on machine. I downloaded it trough game.
09:47<LordAro>odd
09:47<LordAro>do you not have a ~/.openttd dir ?
09:47<djura-san>i do
09:47<LordAro>huh
09:48<djura-san>but it reported some errors in cfg so i deleted it.
09:48<LordAro>...
09:48<djura-san>(i did that after i downloaded graphics)
09:49<LordAro>...
09:49<LordAro>graphics are stored in there
09:49<LordAro>as are save games
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09:49<@planetmaker>debian installs them likely by default in the linux shared dir, thus not in ~/.openttd
09:50<@planetmaker>so yes, could be
09:50<LordAro>...unless you're just talking about openttd.cfg
09:50<djura-san>planetmaker: that is the case here, yes
09:50<@planetmaker>though it *should* have found those...
09:50<@planetmaker>maybe... debian compiles the shared path to something else than our default. Then not
09:57<LordAro>blathjis will know
09:57<blathijs>Hm?
09:58*blathijs reads
09:58<Eddi|zuHause>ingame downloads will never be stored in the shared dir
09:58<Eddi|zuHause>(you likely don't have write access there anyway)
09:58<@planetmaker>no one said so, Eddi|zuHause ;-)
09:58<@planetmaker>blathijs, question is: does debian use a non-default shared dir to store things like OpenGFX?
09:58<@planetmaker>s/store/install/
09:59<blathijs>No, just ~/.openttd
09:59<blathijs>uh
09:59<@planetmaker>blathijs, err... no ;-)
09:59<blathijs>shared dir is /usr/share/games/openttd IIRC
09:59<@planetmaker>that's default afaik
10:00<blathijs>djura-san: Where did you store the opengfx files you downloaded?
10:00<@planetmaker>yeah
10:00<blathijs>Oh, but he's now not using the Debian version but the linux generic tarball, I think.
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10:01<djura-san>blathijs: in 1.3.2, they are in ~/.openttd. Debian ones are in /usr/share/games/openttd
10:01<blathijs>djura-san: It should be ok to download the openttd package from sid, I think it doesn't require any libraries that aren't also in Debian stable
10:01<blathijs>djura-san: The Debian version (and default versions as well, I think) looks for data in both places
10:02<djura-san>i see
10:02<@planetmaker>seems to not have found them then, though. Hm :-)
10:02<blathijs>djura-san: Though I'm not 100% sure if the generic tarball looks there as well
10:02<blathijs>djura-san: In any case, I'd recommend you either install the version from sid, or the .deb from openttd.org, not the generic Linux tarball
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10:28<djura-san>okay, i used admiral ai. map is 64x64, one town (~200 people, 10 houses) and no founding industries :>
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10:53<planet>djura-san I don't expect admiralAI to do very well on those tiny maps
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11:36<NewWorld>Hello, why do my passengers prefer the bus to the train? I have over 1k passengers waiting at the bus station, and almost none at the train station.
11:40<planet>NewWorld: if it's different stations, then you'r probably just faster to ship them away at the train station, your service is worse there or it covers a less densely populated area. Or any combination thereof
11:41<NewWorld>Hmm thanks, though I don't know how I could get better coverage with the train station since you can only build them OUTSIDE of the town unlike bus stations
11:41<NewWorld>planet: what do you mean "ship them away"?
11:41<planet>transport
11:42<planet>btw, NewWorld try to build a station and hold the Ctrl key while doing so. You might like that feature ;-)
11:42<planet>do that in the vicinity of an existing station
11:42<NewWorld>I'll try it, thanks a lot
11:45<planet>what you experienced: there's more people available downtown than at the outskirts of a city. You could also use the bus to transfer them to the train station
11:48<NewWorld>^^^ good idea
11:50<NewWorld>I'm trying to give the bus orders: Go To -> The train station, but it won't let me do that
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11:51<NewWorld>Ahh I gotta create a bus station next to the train
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13:45<@DorpsGek>Commit by translators :: r25942 trunk/src/lang/latvian.txt (2013-11-05 18:45:08 UTC)
13:45<@DorpsGek>-Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
13:45<@DorpsGek>latvian - 23 changes by Parastais
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14:26<nickshanks>andythenorth: are these changes in line with what you know: http://wiki.openttd.org/?title=Compiling_on_Mac_OS_X&diff=82627&oldid=82460
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14:28<nickshanks>grr, my IRC connection keeps going down whenever i shut my laptop lid
14:28<nickshanks>even if only for a few seconds to walk to another room
14:28<andythenorth>brew can build ottd?
14:28<andythenorth>o_O
14:29<nickshanks>aparently. not tried it
14:31<andythenorth>nickshanks: that stuff looks about right to me
14:31<andythenorth>I don't have a Mavericks box to hand
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14:59<Wolf01>hi hi
15:04<@Rubidium>ohai Wolf01
15:05<Wolf01>I'm sad, I updated to Win8.1 and I found they removed the finger flicks and left only the mouse ones :(
15:05<Wolf01>no more ctrl key on OTTD
15:06*Rubidium is only aware of chick flicks
15:08<Wolf01>I should slap myself and enslave my brain and the hands to develop a ctrl key alternative for touch screens
15:10<George>can_start_stop CB does not happen when the train visits depot for service. is that intended?
15:12<@Rubidium>based on the specs I'd assume it's intended that way
15:12<@Rubidium>"This callback is called whenever a player (or the AI) tries to start or stop a vehicle."
15:12<@Rubidium>i.e. no automatic stuff
15:13<andythenorth>it's for checking things like brakevan attach
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16:15<DanMacK>Hey all
16:16*DanMacK slaps andythenorth around a bit with a large fishbot
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16:28<@planetmaker>I hope the fish lay rotting or rusting for a bit for extra fun ;-) Hey DanMacK
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16:33<DanMacK>hey PM
16:34<@planetmaker>how're the horses doing?
16:34<DanMacK>good good, we're working out more stuff
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16:43<andythenorth>what would cause the first part of an articulated vehicle to fail to set cargo capacity?
16:43<andythenorth>nml looks right to me
16:43<andythenorth>maybe it's cb36
16:44<andythenorth>yup
16:54<LeandroL>quick question
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16:54<LeandroL>does a city produce more cargo than a town of the same size?
16:55<@planetmaker>no
16:56<@planetmaker>it just tells you that it'll grow faster, all other things being equal.
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17:42<LeandroL>thanks planetmaker
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18:01<Eddi|zuHause><Rubidium> "This callback is called whenever a player (or the AI) tries to start or stop a vehicle." <-- that probably only applies to "stop in depot" orders, but maybe it would also be useful for a train that was the result of autoreplace etc.
18:01<Wolf01>'night
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18:01<Eddi|zuHause>as in "this train can not leave if odd number of wagons"
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18:05<@Rubidium>Eddi|zuHause: it does stop and start upon autoreplace
18:05<@Rubidium>it shouldn't on servicing
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18:06<Eddi|zuHause>yes, there's no reason to do it on servicing
18:06<Eddi|zuHause>is that autoreplace behaviour documented anywhere?
18:07*Rubidium pedantically says: yes, it is
18:08<Eddi|zuHause>i mean other than the canonical documentation :p
18:10<LeandroL>question: any tips for getting extra mail in my terminals/airports?
18:10<LeandroL>I've been playing online lately and my bottleneck for city growth is always mail
18:10<@Rubidium>transfer + no loading
18:10<@Rubidium>okay... I'm getting too annoying and ought to go to bed
18:11<LeandroL>is it worth building 4 or 5 truck terminals on small towns to gather mail across town and transfer it to the town airport?
18:11<LeandroL>say a town with population 1000 that i'm already servicing with an airport
18:12<LeandroL>is it worth building truck stations to gather mail from across town and transfer it to the airport?
18:13<Eddi|zuHause>yes
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18:14<LeandroL>sweet. thanks!
18:14<Eddi|zuHause>although airplanes are imho hopeless if your aim is to transport the most cargo
18:15<LeandroL>i go with airplanes because they're the most profitable
18:15<LeandroL>especially at the beginning of the game
18:15<LeandroL>have in mind that i'm playing very short citybuilder games
18:15<Eddi|zuHause>that they are good at
18:16<LeandroL>first company with population 3000 or 4000 wins
18:16<LeandroL>short and sweet :)
18:16<Eddi|zuHause>i don't like short games
18:17<LeandroL>it's a matter of personal taste i guess
18:17<LeandroL>i like playing many short games and trying different strategies until i find something that works
18:17<Eddi|zuHause>play 100 years at daylength x8 over several months :)
18:18<LeandroL>we're at opposite sides of the spectrum
18:19<Eddi|zuHause>connect all towns and industries with cargodist and get enough capacity to move all cargos (especially passengers)
18:19*LeandroL is googling cargodist
18:20<Eddi|zuHause>it's a new feature in nightlies (1.4)
18:20<LeandroL>oh that sounds incredibly useful
18:20<LeandroL>i thought what cargodist implements was default behavior until i realized it is not. it was very frustrating
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18:22<Eddi|zuHause>this is the result of the last game i played (although that is quite a while ago now) www.informatik.uni-halle.de/~krause/Loisachkirchen%20Transport,%2013.%20Apr%202027.png (12MB)
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18:25<LeandroL>that's insane
18:26<LeandroL>those cities are beautiful btw
18:26<Eddi|zuHause>that's the beaty of this game, everybody is a different kind of insane :p
18:27<NGC3982>BRIDGES.
18:27<LeandroL>:)
18:27<NGC3982>:D.
18:27<LeandroL>one thing i was surprised when i first started playing this game is the lack of highways
18:28<LeandroL>highways would look pretty cool in a crowded city
18:28<+glx>vehicles rarely overtake
18:28<LeandroL>true
18:28<LeandroL>and if they do, you're probably doing something wrong
18:29<Eddi|zuHause>highways might look beautiful, but they're not very useful in this game
18:29<Eddi|zuHause>but i haven't played a heavy road game yet
18:29<Eddi|zuHause>there's a "dutch highway set" (eyecandy only) though
18:29<LeandroL>roads are very profitable in small games
18:29<LeandroL>i.e. 64x64, 64x128
18:30<LeandroL>compared to trains, that is
18:30<+glx>of course there's no place for trains then
18:30<Eddi|zuHause>that image above is the smallest game i ever played for a significant amount of time
18:30<LeandroL>in a 64x128 game there might be space for some trains
18:30<LeandroL>Eddi|zuHause: what are the dimensions?
18:30<Eddi|zuHause>that's 128x256 i believe
18:30<+glx>true, but in 64x64 there's not
18:31<LeandroL>glx: no, there really isn't
18:31<+glx>and usually some industries are missing too
18:31<LeandroL>i tried building trains in a 64x64 game but they're not really profitable
18:31<LeandroL>and it limits city growth
18:31<+glx>distances are too short for trains
18:31<LeandroL>and you have to build lots of bridges and tunnels which make trains even less efficient
18:31<Eddi|zuHause>i vaguely remember a (miniin?) test game where i tested some PBS bug
18:32<LeandroL>Eddi|zuHause: btw i love how pines look in that map
18:32<LeandroL>Eddi|zuHause: are you one of the developers?
18:32<Eddi|zuHause>not really
18:33<Eddi|zuHause>as in "i did write a handful of (smaller) patches" but "i don't have commit access to the repository"
18:33<LeandroL>you're a contributor then
18:33<LeandroL>that's cool
18:34<Eddi|zuHause>i do talk a lot and sometimes people get the idea to listen to me, though :)
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18:37<juzza1>Eddi|zuHause: what trees are those in your screenshot?
18:37<Eddi|zuHause>juzza1: you can read the grf list in the metadata (like with exiftool)
18:38<juzza1>ok
18:38<Eddi|zuHause>i believe it's called "treesw.grf", (a variant of "stolentrees") but i have a feeling it's not really accessible anymore
18:39<juzza1>okay
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18:41<+glx>luckily the map is not too big for a giant screenshot ;)
18:52<Eddi|zuHause>that's one of the reasons i played such a rather small map
18:53<Supercheese>Hmm, compile troubles with most recent New Map Features
18:53<Eddi|zuHause>(because it's a patched build and few people could load a savegame)
18:53<Supercheese>'unique_ptr' : is not a member of 'std'
18:53<Eddi|zuHause>ask in the patch thread?
18:54<Eddi|zuHause>although that sounds like a library problem
18:54<Supercheese>Seemingly dealing with C++11 features
18:55<Supercheese>so compiler issue, even
18:55<Eddi|zuHause>the language specs don't cover the compiler only
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19:00<juzza1>found the tree newgrfs at simuscape, is someone else is interested
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19:08<Supercheese>Might have to switch compilers :S
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---Logclosed Wed Nov 06 00:00:15 2013